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wnes
07-25-2005, 06:29 PM
[Folks, this is starting to get paranoid and pathetic. Do you have anything like this in places where you live? Lets all say hello to police state.]


[size=4]Foot soldiers to safeguard Long Island[/size]
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/ny-literr-0724,0,3196493.story?page=1&coll=ny-homepage-bigpix2005

LI police asking regular citizens from waiters to landlords to report signs shown by people they meet

BY CHAU LAM
STAFF WRITER

July 24, 2005

Suffolk County police dropped by at Eileen Quinn's self-storage business in St. James and left a card advising her to call a hotline if she spotted anything suspicious.

Vincent Malizia received a visit at his restaurant in Sayville from a patrol officer who asked him to report customers who refuse to check their backpacks.

A pair of officers showed up at Poseidon Pool and Spa in Melville and suggested that owner Joseph Gartner jot down the license plate numbers of customers purchasing huge quantities of chlorine.

"In today's world," Gartner said after the surprise visit, "everybody's a suspect."

Across Long Island, thousands of regular citizens -- from shop clerks to waiters to landlords and teachers -- are quietly being asked to enlist as foot soldiers in the war on terror through Operation Safeguard.

Interviews and documents show that the unique statewide plan, started last year by the New York State Office of Homeland Security, aims to use local police to contact citizens who are encouraged to identify, report -- and even confront -- possible terrorists.

The authorities are asking Long Islanders to do everything from reporting on diners' conversations to monitoring strangers' Internet use to observing fellow worshipers at religious services to noting when parents withdraw their kids from school.

Once gathered by the local police, contact information from participating businesses and organizations -- names, addresses, telephone numbers and e-mail addresses -- is forwarded to the Albany-based agency, which uses the data to warn of threats. Tips from Operation Safeguard are forwarded to a Joint Terrorism Task Force made of local, state and federal authorities.

Blunt reminders to be wary

The recent bombings in London serve as blunt reminders of how important it is for New Yorkers to be aware of their surroundings and report anything suspicious, terror experts and local government officials say. While Operation Safeguard is not being conducted in response to any specific threat, police say they want to do what they can to thwart future terrorist attacks.

Suffolk and Nassau county executives, along with high-ranking police officers and a top Suffolk school security official, endorse Operation Safeguard, characterizing the state's requests as reasonable given the level of perceived threat.

"If everybody does their bit to be vigilant and report suspicious activities, then they become part of the mosaic contributing to making the whole nation safe," said Nassau Assistant Police Chief Anthony Rocco. "Homeland security is hometown security."

But critics of Operation Safeguard, including civil liberties advocates, area librarians and some business people, worry that the program will be difficult to implement, pit neighbor-against-neighbor, prove invasive and pull innocent people into its net.

Jared Feuer, director of the Suffolk chapter of the New York Civil Liberties Union, said Operation Safeguard will lead to racial profiling and turns Long Islanders into spies, asking them to monitor the day-to-day activities of just about everyone they encounter.

"It's based on people acting or looking differently and that definitely includes race," Feuer said, arguing that Arabs and people of the Muslim faith are more likely to be singled out by Operation Safeguard, given that the terrorists who attacked New York and Washington, D.C., on Sept. 11, 2001, came from the Middle East.

For Kevin McCoy, chairman of the Suffolk County Library Associations's intellectual freedom committee, Operation Safeguard presents a stark choice.

"They are asking us to spy on our patrons," he said "It's sweeping. You no longer look at people as patrons but you're looking at everyone as potential criminals."

Making the rounds

So far, 12 officers working in the Suffolk Police Department's Community Oriented Patrol Enforcement section have as part of their rounds contacted more than 2,500 organizations and businesses as part of Operation Safeguard, according to Deputy Chief Mark White. The list includes a sky diving center in East Moriches, a paintball arena in West Babylon and a truck rental depot in East Northport. Suffolk police intend to contact 10,000 establishments over the next three years, White said.

Officers from Nassau's Problem Oriented Policing unit are participating, but they've contacted only 50 businesses to date.

In all, police are visiting 70 types of organizations. The list of establishments Operation Safeguard recommends police "target" includes libraries, schools, churches, synagogues, bars, sellers of religious vestments, abortion clinics, jewelry stores, restaurants, real estate agents, scuba shops, veterinarians and plastic surgeons.

James McMahon, director of the state Office of Homeland Security, did not respond to repeated requests for an interview.

James Carafano, a senior research fellow at the Heritage Foundation think tank, and Frank Cilluffo, director of the Homeland Security Policy Institute at George Washington University, said they know of no other states that have adopted a similar anti-terror approach.

"This is the first state that has asked libraries to do this," said Emily Sheketoff, executive director of the American Library Association's Washington, D.C., office.

Operation Safeguard was created last summer by the New York Office of Homeland Security, an agency established by Gov. George Pataki and the State Legislature. The office, which has a budget of $17.5 million and a staff of 86, patterned Operation Safeguard after the New York Police Department's Operation Nexus, said White of the Suffolk Police Department. City police have sought cooperation from 25,000 businesses.

Nassau and Suffolk police say neither county is spending additional money or receiving state funds to implement the program, which relies on officers incorporating anti-terror visits into their routine duties.

"We have to share information," Nassau County Executive Thomas Suozzi said. "And the public has to be involved."

When it comes to homeland security, "there is nothing more important," echoed Suffolk County Executive Steve Levy. "You can't afford to make mistakes in this era."

A worthwhile endeavor?

It remains to be seen, terror experts told Newsday, whether Operation Safeguard will prove effective because it doesn't have a track record and they know of no other similar programs internationally. What's more, the program's success depends on the timing and quality of information it gathers.

"On some level it's like taking a shot in the dark, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't do it," said Ben Tucker, associate professor of criminal justice at Pace University in Manhattan.

Studies show that community policing, on which Operation Safeguard is loosely based, cuts crime by providing a direct path for information from citizens to authorities who can respond quickly to threats and incidents, according to David Venturella, former acting director of Detention and Removal at U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Operation Safeguard is designed to identify patterns among attackers, Carafano said. "It's not about ratting on your neighbors."

White equates Operation Safeguard and its toll-free telephone tip lines with well-established Crime Stoppers and Neighborhood Watch programs. "Only now," White said, police are "expanding their horizons to include potential terrorist activities."

Ken Brown, a spokesman for the Office of Homeland Security, said the agency "makes every effort to ensure that no individual's privacy rights are compromised."

Still, Carafano and other terror analysts worry that law enforcement agencies may abuse Operation Safeguard unless their activities are closely monitored by civil liberties groups and state authorities.

Businesses, schools, libraries and other organizations must participate voluntarily, police must avoid false arrests and the state must maintain tight control over the information it gathers, terror experts said. "How it's implemented is crucial," Carafano explained.

Anti-crime vs. anti-terror

It's illogical to compare community anti-crime programs with anti-terror programs, according to professor Charles B. Strozier, director of the Center on Terrorism at John Jay College of Criminal Justice in Manhattan, because terror plots are difficult to detect and government warnings only fuel the public's sense of anxiety and helplessness. "Terrorism is very, very different from criminal activity," Strozier said. "Those who are in charge tend to apply a criminal justice model and it doesn't work."

Faroque Khan, president of the Islamic Center of Long Island, said he supports citizens notifying authorities of something out of the ordinary. "It's my civic responsibility." But he added, "I don't need the cops to tell me so." Khan said police must guard against neighbors making false accusations. Operation Safeguard "may lead to persecution or harassment of people," he said.

Local police declined to discuss possible threats or list the specific schools, libraries and businesses participating in the program.

However, the literature being distributed by police and comments made during interviews with individuals contacted by Operation Safeguard reflect concern among authorities over a sweeping array of potential terror acts. They include school takeovers, bus assaults, chemical attacks, surveillance with remote control model airplanes and research into the manufacture of "improvised explosive devices."

A two-page letter from McMahon distributed to local schools, for example, advises personnel to be on the look out for "general indicators" that could signal terror plots, including attempts by individuals to gain information on bus routes and the religious composition of the student body.

The anti-terror letter distributed by police offers recommendations on how ordinary citizens may confront "a suspicious person" or a "suspect" by asking them for identification or the purpose of their visit. The letters advise asking: "May I help you with anything?" "May I see some identification?" "Who are you visiting?" "What is the purpose of your visit?"

The letter also advises school personnel to "only approach or question a suspicious person if you feel comfortable. If you feel uncomfortable or threatened, seek assistance."

Larry Speciner, program administrator and chief safety officer for Eastern Suffolk BOCES, supports the effort. "One of the best way to keep schools safe is to be aware of what happens in and around schools," Speciner said. "To my eyes, it's not intrusive at all."

Local librarians, though, warn the program will be logistically difficult, violate patrons' privacy, and raise concerns that law enforcement is overstepping its powers. Directors at Central Islip Public Library, South Country Library in Bellport, and Half Hollow Hills Community Library in Dix Hills said they have already been contacted by police.

"If we see something unusual, we would report it," Anne Pavlak, director of the Central Islip Public Library. But Pavlak said her library does not have the means to track what patrons are reading during visits or which Web sites they log on to, noting "no library has the staff to do that," she said. Plus, "we always try to keep our patrons as private as possible."

About a dozen business people interviewed backed Operation Safeguard as a way to protect the public and Michael Forbes, chief executive of the Chamber of Commerce Regional Business Partnership, said the program is "reassuring."

Joseph Gartner, the owner of Poseidon Pool and Spa, said he understands why police asked him to closely monitor the sale of bulk chlorine because in its concentrated form the chemical can cause fires and explosions and emit toxic fumes.

"If somebody wants 50 drums, they're not getting them unless I know what they want them for," Gartner said. "I have no problem with taking down license plate numbers."

Well worth the effort

Pointing out the "1-866-SAFE-NYS" card from Suffolk County's Fourth Precinct she keeps propped up on her computer keyboard, Quinn, who has the self-storage business in St. James, said, "If we have to take a few moments out of our day to keep ourselves and our neighbors safe, it's well worth it."

Frank Paruolo, a Sayville real estate broker, said Fifth Precinct Police Officer Marc Frascogna asked him to report anyone who presents multiple forms of identification or buys a house and leaves it vacant. "This is not something that's going to infringe on my responsibility to my clients," said Paruolo.

Vincent Malizia, co-owner of the nearby Collins & Main restaurant, said his waiters and waitresses are too busy to listen in on diners' conversations. But after his visit from police, Malizia briefed his employees and asked them to note unusual activity. "If a customer comes in with a backpack and doesn't want to check it ... that could be suspicious," he said.

But others in the business community expressed concern that the guidelines are vague, forcing them to make uncomfortable snap judgments about customers, their intentions, and the law.

One Operation Safeguard handout, for example, asks business people to rely on their "experience" and "impressions" to sniff out an unusual "fact pattern" that may indicate a brewing plot. Police "just left it to our imaginations," said Alan Talman, owner of Karps Hardware Store in East Northport, which also rents trucks.

Consequently, he said, its difficult to strike a balance between minding his own business and looking out for the public good. "If someone rents a truck and buys a lot of fertilizer, we are going to be suspicious," Talman said. "But I'm not the cops."

Staff writers Stacey Altherr, Erik German, Ruth Tisdale, Cristian Salazar, Robert Tuttle, and Hilary Russ contributed to this story.

pippendagimp
07-25-2005, 07:29 PM
Sherriff Coltraine:

"Boss, I was uh thinkin Boss.....wouldn't it be easier to just tag up all these Muslims n Arabs with ankle monitors and then implant mics in their cheeks? Ya know....record any n all utterances outta them? And hell, why not let's just include any French out here, too Boss...just fer the hell of it, g'g'g'g'g!!!......well whadaya say Boss?"

Boss Hogg:

"Now look here you Numbskull....How in the hell are we gonna do all that?? You think I got an army of Ennis's floatin 'round this county, Dummy? Now you know I aint got that kinda manpower out here. And besides, this way I git to raise everyone's property taxes while they're too busy scurryin around sniffin fer the enemy. I tell you Roscoe I tell you....I got good feelins about this here operation.....we gonna have ourselves our own little Kristallnacht one these days....I can't wait...hoo hoo hoo hoo..."

Sherriff Coltraine:

"Hey Boss .....is Duke a French name??"

mateo
07-25-2005, 07:33 PM
Every year, the movie The Siege seems less and less unlikely.

KingCheetah
07-25-2005, 07:39 PM
wnes you have 6 threads on the front page with a combined total of 14 posts (including mine) ~ give it a rest.

wnes
07-25-2005, 08:16 PM
wnes you have 6 threads on the front page with a combined total of 14 posts (including mine) ~ give it a rest.

Take a hike.

bigtexxx
07-25-2005, 09:54 PM
Sounds like a neighborhood watch program. Big whoop. Those have existed for decades.

bigtexxx
07-25-2005, 09:56 PM
wnes you have 6 threads on the front page with a combined total of 14 posts (including mine) ~ give it a rest.

Agreed. I have already reprimanded him once on this topic. He's been disobedient of late.

mleahy999
07-25-2005, 10:17 PM
Yes!!! Another article about how awful the US is.
http://tinypic.com/9gcwo4.jpg

wnes
07-25-2005, 10:18 PM
Agreed. I have already reprimanded him once on this topic. He's been disobedient of late.

Debasing your status to a lowly feline, bigtexxx, way to go.

wnes
07-25-2005, 10:23 PM
Yes!!! Another article about how awful the US is.


Or you can bury your head in the sand all you want.

StupidMoniker
07-25-2005, 10:32 PM
I encourage any and all of you to report suspicious/criminal behavior to the proper authorities. Asking people to take responsibility for their own safety and that of their community is not a police state, it is common sense.

rhester
07-25-2005, 10:34 PM
Debasing your status to a lowly feline, bigtexxx, way to go.

wnes-
police state?

It can't happen here.

It's impossible.

Ignore the frogs in the kettle, they never know what happens until it happens.

wnes
07-25-2005, 10:53 PM
I encourage any and all of you to report suspicious/criminal behavior to the proper authorities. Asking people to take responsibility for their own safety and that of their community is not a police state, it is common sense.

"Suspicious" is a vague and subjective term. What you deem suspicious may well be perfectly legal, albeit unnecessarily "normal". Excessive suspicions in a society are indication of uncertainty and instability, to say the least. The collective mentality under such circumstance is by no means healthy.

KingCheetah
07-25-2005, 11:01 PM
"Suspicious"...

http://www.district-x.net/forum/images/smilies/sheep.gif

tigermission1
07-25-2005, 11:47 PM
Every year, the movie The Siege seems less and less unlikely.

I thought the same thing the first time I saw it. It's amazing how reality imitates fiction, isn't it?

RocketMan Tex
07-26-2005, 08:07 AM
I heard they're going to make Joey Buttafuco the head snitch.....

pirc1
07-26-2005, 08:25 AM
Things like reporting suspicous activities sounds so much like what I experienced first hand in China. We were taught in grade schools to report anyone or anything suspicous to the authority. I am not saying it is totally wrong to ask people to do that but things like that can get out of hand very quickly. People who were classified as "enermys of people" will often have their every move reported to the police, think "arabs". I sure hope this is not another step down the slope.

krosfyah
07-26-2005, 09:50 AM
Speaking of police state, I still don't really understand police jurisdictions.

Here are police organizations with jurdisdiction over the immediate Houston area:
1. HPD
2. Harris County Constables (8 different precints which apparently are seperate enteties)
3. Harris County Sheriffs (not sure the difference)
4. Metro Police
5. Each University has their own PD's.
5.1 Univeristy of Houston
5.2 University of Houston - Clear Lake (yes, it's different)
5.3 University of Houston - downtown (yes, it's different)
5.2 Rice University
5.3 Texas Southern University
5.4 Houston Community College
5.5 San Jacinto College System PD
6. Houston Independant School District
7. Houston Park Rangers
8. Texas Parks and Wildlife Department
9. Houston Arson Bureau
10. Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commision
11. Texas Department of Public Saftey

That is at least 18 police departments that operate within Houston city limits (if you don't count all 8 seperate precints of the constable offices). This does NOT include every other town in the greater Houston area like West University, Sugerland, Pearland, Pasadena, etc with their own PDs. Plus each ISD has its own PD (we have like 8 ISD's?).

This also doesn't include federal police agencies like the FBI, CIA or whatever law enforcement agenecies that can impart local jurisdictions.

Do we live in a police state? Without question.

RocketMan Tex
07-26-2005, 09:54 AM
Speaking of police state, I still don't really understand police jurisdictions.

Here are police organizations with jurdisdiction over the immediate Houston area:
1. HPD
2. Harris County Constables (8 different precints which apparently are seperate enteties)
3. Harris County Sheriffs (not sure the difference)
4. Metro Police
5. Each University has their own PD's.
5.1 Univeristy of Houston
5.2 University of Houston - Clear Lake (yes, it's different)
5.3 University of Houston - downtown (yes, it's different)
5.2 Rice University
5.3 Texas Southern University
5.4 Houston Community College
5.5 San Jacinto College System PD
6. Houston Independant School District
7. Houston Park Rangers
8. Texas Parks and Wildlife Department
9. Houston Arson Bureau
10. Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commision
11. Texas Department of Public Saftey

That is at least 18 police departments that operate within Houston city limits (if you don't count all 8 seperate precints of the constable offices). This does NOT include every other town in the greater Houston area like West University, Sugerland, Pearland, Pasadena, etc with their own PDs. Plus each ISD has its own PD (we have like 8 ISD's?).

This also doesn't include federal police agencies like the FBI, CIA or whatever law enforcement agenecies that can impart local jurisdictions.

Do we live in a police state? Without question.

I hear ya! About three years ago, I got a speeding ticket....from a University of Texas Police Officer, on Holcombe near MD Anderson, through a construction area. I was pissed!

krosfyah
07-26-2005, 10:05 AM
I hear ya! About three years ago, I got a speeding ticket....from a University of Texas Police Officer, on Holcombe near MD Anderson, through a construction area. I was pissed!

I didn't even include UT Med Center. You got a ticket from them? Wow!

Also, Bellare Police has jurisdiction over a section of 610 south of the Galleria. A room-mate of mine got detained by them on 610 and was subjected to a police dog search for speeding. DWB.

So that is now 20 PDs over the immediate Houston area. If you want to include West U, that makes it 21 PDs.

It that really necessary?

real_egal
07-26-2005, 10:06 AM
Things like reporting suspicous activities sounds so much like what I experienced first hand in China. We were taught in grade schools to report anyone or anything suspicous to the authority. I am not saying it is totally wrong to ask people to do that but things like that can get out of hand very quickly. People who were classified as "enermys of people" will often have their every move reported to the police, think "arabs". I sure hope this is not another step down the slope.

No matter how hard you preach it, people will just ignore it. I brought that up many times, but some people have too much pride in themselves and firmly believe that nothing would happen, even if they are going away from the Constitution, which made them so proud. I just want to reiterate it again, history repeats itself, and people generally don't learn from others' mistakes, just want to experience it in its own hard way. Sometimes, I just think the slogans, mentalities, even explanations (or excuses), and "emergency situations" are so similar, that it's really scary. But people never suffered from that, would not be watchful.

krosfyah
07-26-2005, 10:09 AM
No matter how hard you preach it, people will just ignore it. I brought that up many times, but some people have too much pride in themselves and firmly believe that nothing would happen, even if they are going away from the Constitution, which made them so proud. I just want to reiterate it again, history repeats itself, and people generally don't learn from others' mistakes, just want to experience it in its own hard way. Sometimes, I just think the slogans, mentalities, even explanations (or excuses), and "emergency situations" are so similar, that it's really scary. But people never suffered from that, would not be watchful.

Here's an email I got just this morning:

First they came for the Communists,
but I was not a Communist, so I didn't speak out.

Then they came for the Social Democrats,
but I was not a Social Democrat, so I didn't speak out.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
but I was not a trade unionist, so I didn't speak out.

Then they came for the Jews,
but I was not a Jew, so I didn't speak out.

Then when they came for me, there was no one left to stand up for me.

-Pastor Niemoeller, protestant minister and victim of the Nazis.

real_egal
07-26-2005, 10:12 AM
Here's an email I got just this morning:

First they came for the Communists,
but I was not a Communist, so I didn't speak out.

Then they came for the Social Democrats,
but I was not a Social Democrat, so I didn't speak out.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
but I was not a trade unionist, so I didn't speak out.

Then they came for the Jews,
but I was not a Jew, so I didn't speak out.

Then when they came for me, there was no one left to stand up for me.

-Pastor Niemoeller, protestant minister and victim of the Nazis.

Sad but so true. Sigh.

JuanValdez
07-26-2005, 10:28 AM
Yes!!! Another article about how awful the US is.
http://tinypic.com/9gcwo4.jpg

Lol!

Don't worry, I've already reported wnes to the proper authorities. His posting behavior in the D&D has been suspicious, to say the least.

wnes
07-26-2005, 10:38 AM
Lol!

Don't worry, I've already reported wnes to the proper authorities. His posting behavior in the D&D has been suspicious, to say the least.

Oh well my days in D&D are numbered. When you guys don't see me posting any more here, you won't have to speculate what has happened to me. I'll look for some French inmates to seek revenge ... :mad:

mulletman
07-26-2005, 10:54 AM
this bus driver may have taken the advice already. at least the cops werent as trigger happy as their counterparts in london

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/331264p-283131c.html


Terror scare rattles city

Police raid tour bus & shut Penn Station

BY TAMER EL-GHOBASHY, TONY SCLAFANI, WARREN WOODBERRY JR.
and DAVE GOLDINER
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS


Riders' bags are spread on street in preparation for check by bomb-sniffing dog.


Bus driver Mohammed Stout called in worker’s suspicions about passengers.


Five tourists kneel in handcuffs on Broadway between 50th and 51st Sts. after being ordered off Gray Line tour bus in Times Square yesterday. They were later released and resumed their trips aboard another Gray Line bus.

New York was fear city yesterday as heavily armed police swarmed a double-decker bus packed with tourists in Times Square and later shut down Penn Station after an irate passenger said he had a bomb.

In a dramatic sign of the city's edginess since the London transit bombings, cops evacuated buildings, shut midtown streets and forced about 60 terrified tourists to march off the double-decker bus, with their hands up, in the heart of Broadway.

Cops in riot gear handcuffed a group of apparently harmless South Asian-looking men with British accents after a jittery tour bus worker reported they seemed suspicious.

The men were forced to kneel on the sidewalk, with their hands bound behind their backs, between 50th and 51st Sts. in front of the Winter Garden theater on a sunny summer Sunday with the city packed with tourists.

"People were really scared," said Jill Sully, 29, of Saskatoon, Canada. "There were sharpshooters with guns pointed toward our bus."

"I was scared out of my mind," said another passenger, Amanda Pesanello, 20, of Coventry, R.I. "We don't have things like this in Rhode Island."

The dramatic faceoff on Broadway came just days after the NYPD ratcheted up security after the July 7 and July 21 London transit bombs and began searching bags in the subway.

It also came after an apparently innocent man was killed Friday by London cops who mistook him for a fleeing terrorist.

The five men in yesterday's incident quickly were freed after cops determined they were tourists - not terrorists.

"We just want to clear our heads of the whole thing," one of the men told the Daily News. "We were humiliated enough."

"We just want to go," added another.

The scare unfolded about 11:30 a.m. after a Gray Line sightseeing bus worker told the driver some of the passengers getting aboard appeared suspicious.

"I was definitely frightened from the beginning," said the driver, Mohammed Stout, 43, of the Bronx. "That's human nature."

A Gray Line dispatcher called 911 and told cops the men had backpacks and their pockets "stuffed" - a possible warning sign of suicide bombers, said NYPD spokesman Paul Browne.

By the time the bus neared Times Square, cops carrying heavy weapons decided to cordon off Broadway and stop the vehicle, a decision police officials defended as appropriate.

Bus passenger Kathy Arrigo, 45, of White Plains, said most of the tourists initially laughed off the show of force.

But the mood turned edgier as the cops kept the big red bus there for nearly 30 minutes.

Fear grew when cops ordered everyone to put their hands up and walk off the bus - leaving their bags to be searched.

"You want to talk about real terror?" said Arrigo's husband, Robert. "There were two little girls with their parents who were just terrified. They were crying uncontrollably."

Cops raced into a McDonald's nearby and told workers to shut down the place and get out as fast as they could.

"The cops just came in and said to evacuate the building and to run," said McDonald's employee Catherine Melendez.

Police eventually gave the allclear and the tourists were ushered into a nearby Applebee's restaurant for lunch. They later got back on a Gray Line bus to continue their tour.

Meanwhile, about 12:15 p.m., Penn Station was paralyzed when a disgruntled passenger, identified as Raul Claudio, 43, of the Bronx, walked up to a ticket counter, put his suitcase on the counter and declared he had a bomb, authorities said.

The contents of the suitcase proved harmless. The man was detained, and was to be charged with making a terroristic threat and falsely reporting an incident.

Hundreds of passengers were forced to evacuate the terminal and thousands more were delayed when Amtrak, commuter railroad and subway service was frozen for more than an hour.

"What can you do?" shrugged Dan Lindgren, 46, of Arlington, Va. "It's the times we live in."

JuanValdez
07-26-2005, 11:45 AM
this bus driver may have taken the advice already. at least the cops werent as trigger happy as their counterparts in london

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/331264p-283131c.html

This is probably the part you should have put in bold:
...after an irate passenger said he had a bomb.

krosfyah
07-26-2005, 11:48 AM
This is probably the part you should have put in bold:

I think you missed something. The bomb threat did not come from the bus. The bomb threat was a later incident in Penn Station, according to the article.

JuanValdez
07-26-2005, 11:50 AM
I think you missed something. The bomb threat did not come from the bus. The bomb threat was a later incident in Penn Station, according to the article.

You're right; I did miss something.

wnes
07-26-2005, 12:59 PM
this bus driver may have taken the advice already. at least the cops werent as trigger happy as their counterparts in london

Terror scare rattles city

Police raid tour bus & shut Penn Station

BY TAMER EL-GHOBASHY, TONY SCLAFANI, WARREN WOODBERRY JR.
and DAVE GOLDINER
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS


Riders' bags are spread on street in preparation for check by bomb-sniffing dog.


Bus driver Mohammed Stout called in worker’s suspicions about passengers.


Five tourists kneel in handcuffs on Broadway between 50th and 51st Sts. after being ordered off Gray Line tour bus in Times Square yesterday. They were later released and resumed their trips aboard another Gray Line bus.

New York was fear city yesterday as heavily armed police swarmed a double-decker bus packed with tourists in Times Square and later shut down Penn Station after an irate passenger said he had a bomb.

In a dramatic sign of the city's edginess since the London transit bombings, cops evacuated buildings, shut midtown streets and forced about 60 terrified tourists to march off the double-decker bus, with their hands up, in the heart of Broadway.

Cops in riot gear handcuffed a group of apparently harmless South Asian-looking men with British accents after a jittery tour bus worker reported they seemed suspicious.

The men were forced to kneel on the sidewalk, with their hands bound behind their backs, between 50th and 51st Sts. in front of the Winter Garden theater on a sunny summer Sunday with the city packed with tourists.

"People were really scared," said Jill Sully, 29, of Saskatoon, Canada. "There were sharpshooters with guns pointed toward our bus."

"I was scared out of my mind," said another passenger, Amanda Pesanello, 20, of Coventry, R.I. "We don't have things like this in Rhode Island."

The dramatic faceoff on Broadway came just days after the NYPD ratcheted up security after the July 7 and July 21 London transit bombs and began searching bags in the subway.

It also came after an apparently innocent man was killed Friday by London cops who mistook him for a fleeing terrorist.

The five men in yesterday's incident quickly were freed after cops determined they were tourists - not terrorists.

"We just want to clear our heads of the whole thing," one of the men told the Daily News. "We were humiliated enough."

"We just want to go," added another.

The scare unfolded about 11:30 a.m. after a Gray Line sightseeing bus worker told the driver some of the passengers getting aboard appeared suspicious.

"I was definitely frightened from the beginning," said the driver, Mohammed Stout, 43, of the Bronx. "That's human nature."

A Gray Line dispatcher called 911 and told cops the men had backpacks and their pockets "stuffed" - a possible warning sign of suicide bombers, said NYPD spokesman Paul Browne.

By the time the bus neared Times Square, cops carrying heavy weapons decided to cordon off Broadway and stop the vehicle, a decision police officials defended as appropriate.

Bus passenger Kathy Arrigo, 45, of White Plains, said most of the tourists initially laughed off the show of force.

But the mood turned edgier as the cops kept the big red bus there for nearly 30 minutes.

Fear grew when cops ordered everyone to put their hands up and walk off the bus - leaving their bags to be searched.

"You want to talk about real terror?" said Arrigo's husband, Robert. "There were two little girls with their parents who were just terrified. They were crying uncontrollably."

Cops raced into a McDonald's nearby and told workers to shut down the place and get out as fast as they could.

"The cops just came in and said to evacuate the building and to run," said McDonald's employee Catherine Melendez.

Police eventually gave the allclear and the tourists were ushered into a nearby Applebee's restaurant for lunch. They later got back on a Gray Line bus to continue their tour.




Hehe, sh!t really happened. It would be interesting to know what the cops had to say to these South Asian-looking guys in the aftermath:

"Sorry dudes, sh!t happens. Don't blame us. Blame Osama Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda. This is America. Live with it! But you guys did look suspicious. Now you are free to go. What are you looking at? Go!"

StupidMoniker
07-26-2005, 02:43 PM
God forbid someone is delayed for 1/2 an hour. They weren't arrested, they weren't charged, they we ordered off of a bus, temporarily restrained, and searched. In this case, they were doing nothing wrong and they were released. If they had been terrorists, the driver may have saved 60 peoples lives. I am a big supporter of personal freedom, but I rank people's lives ahead of avoiding minor inconveniences. There is a big difference between checking out a suspicious person and hauling them off to a gulag, so I don't agree with the communist references. In fact, posting that article just shows how harmless the policy is.

krosfyah
07-26-2005, 04:24 PM
God forbid someone is delayed for 1/2 an hour. They weren't arrested, they weren't charged, they we ordered off of a bus, temporarily restrained, and searched. In this case, they were doing nothing wrong and they were released. If they had been terrorists, the driver may have saved 60 peoples lives. I am a big supporter of personal freedom, but I rank people's lives ahead of avoiding minor inconveniences. There is a big difference between checking out a suspicious person and hauling them off to a gulag, so I don't agree with the communist references. In fact, posting that article just shows how harmless the policy is.

There is a fine line StupidMoniker...a very very fine line.

We want our law enforcement to be efficient about what they do. In recent weeks, law enforcement terrorised (notice the irony) some innocent people including young children that are probably scared for life. In England, they outright murdered somebody. That could just as easily been here. Every screw up like this makes it harder and harder for police...particularly if only speculation, not fact, led to detainment...such in this case.

We want law enforcement to be vigilent but we don't want them to screw up too much. Some mistakes will happen, I'm sure. But ideally, you keep it to a minimum.

The ultimate ideal means we haven't pissed off people to the extent where they feel the need to suicide bomb us. But we are a long way away from that.