How did you think the Astros season would go?

[DaDakota]

At the beginning of the year, I was completely frustrated, as I expected the Astros to compete because of their pitching staff.

I figured they would win 75% of the games that Roger and Roy Pitched, and 65% of the games Petitte pitched, 50% of the games Backe pitched and 40% of the games that our number 5 starter pitched...thus giving us arounnd a 63% winning percentage or so....

I could not believe the start the team got with their bats, I have never seen a more anemic offensive lineup, part of it I blame on Garner for tinkering too much. It is no coincidence that the team has started hitting as the players are more set....Lane and Burke are more comfortable knowing they are going to play most days, and Tavares...well, he is only INCREDIBLE !

Hopefully, the pitching will hold up and the offense will continue, and we can get another shot at the Cards to get to the series.

I am SOOOOOO Geeked....again !!

GO STROS !!

DD

[fya]

I was ready to throw on the towel by late may to say the least. I knew Mclane had gutted this team pretty dang good, BUT so far we haven't had many injuries and right now everything "look"s good.


We will still need another big bat if we want to go deep in the playoffs.

Get'r Dunn

Mclane!

[l3igballer23]

At the start of the season, I figured we would be a decent team that had an outside shot at the wild card. I thought we lost too much offense to compete with the Cards and a healthy Cubs team is scary.

I expected our pitching to be solid. Clemens, as good as he was last year, has been a surprise. I expected him to be good, but better? :eek: Oswalt, quietly, has been dominant again. With Clemens getting older and Pettitte coming back from elbow problems, it's nice to have Oswalt pitch so many innings.

I thought Backe would do better than he has. I guess I was still enamored with his playoff performance. I'm a little dissapointed with his command problems, but he's a solid fourth starter.

As far as the offense is concerned, I knew we weren't as bad as we started. But, when Bagwell went down, I lost hope. Biggio is a solid hitter, but he's not a number three hitter. It's great that Ensberg has stepped up and played GREAT, and is continuing to play that way. Berkman is Berkman again. If our young guys (Burke, Tavares, Everett) continue to improve, we should be okay. However, we are still one bat away from maintaining this run and making noise in the playoffs. The acquisition of Dunn and/or Griffey would be nice, although Griffey's contract is a mess.

Anyway, I am very excited about this team now and hope they can go on a magical run like last year. :D

[Surfguy]

Well, one thing last season taught us is just when you think the Astros appear to be done for, it is only an illusion. While the early season was disappointing and, in one stretch, may be the worst baseball the Astros have ever played, we knew that this team needed to find themselves and adjust. Who steps up for Kent? Who steps up for (last year's) Beltran? Well...we now know who that is so I won't even say it. And, one shouldn't forget about how we would go about replacing Bagwell?

I just didn't think it would be that rough early. I thought we were better than that and, obviously, we were. What this team is doing now is just incredible. I didn't think it would be possible to top last season's run but I'll be damned if we aren't doing it again! I've never been more excited about our team than I am right now.

But, after last season, the feeling of "we will come back" was never out of mind. This was basically the same team from last season except for two players. And, those shoes have been filled and, damn, do they feel nice! I can't say enough about the job Taveras and Ensberg have done. My mistake for thinking Biggio should lead-off in the batting order. Taveras is about to break Biggio's single season infield hits record...and leave it in the dust. Berkman is getting his groove on. Bench players are coming up big and different ones on different nights. I like that Lane, Palmeiro, Burke, and Lamb combination. Even our relievers who don't do so well can come back to have good games and contribute. I mean...what can you say? This is what it's all about. The team is together and picking each other up. Hell, they even go to Walter Reid in Washington to visit the hurt soldiers.

Keep up the good work!

[rikesh316]

I though they were done when they were 15-30. Watching their games was so bad. They would barely score 1 or 2 runs. It was painful but they showed me I was wrong.

[gwayneco]

Before the season started, I figured about 85-77.

[KingCheetah]

50 - 46 ~ not bad at all considering the start. :)

[apostolic3]

At the beginning of the year, I expected them to finish well out of contention, mainly because of their lineup. After they were 15-30, it was time to throw in the towel. It just goes to show what two hot bats and a good leadoff man can do to turn things around.

[Lil Francis]

After the 2-22 start on the road I thought this team would lose 95 games but baseball is a weird game. I didn't think they had the talent to go on another crazy run like last year but its happening again.

[Stack24]

I am just so happy to see someone like Taveras (who they all said was the least ready of the young core) show up from the begning and just fly with the job. He might have his moments out on the field but other than that he is doing everything he needs to as a leadoff guy. Hell the guy is got a better average and OBP than mr Beltran...

[Uprising]

I've always had hope for this team. Even with how poorly we played at the begining of the year, I had faith they would turn it around. I mean, we weren't that good for the first half of the season last season and look where we went. :cool:

I really thought we were going to be good with the good quickstart, then all hell broke loose. Oh well, I bleed orange.

The young guys have been doing a great job, Taveras! OMG! he is great, the only real flaw he has left is his stupidity at mis-reading balls and turning the wrong way while trying to catch it.

Burke has been great as of lately, lane and lamb are putting up good numbers, and Berkman is back to his old self....Oh yeah, did I mention MORGAN FREAKIN ENSBERG!?!?!?!?!

Go Astros!

[Aceshigh7]

I never gave up. And the Chronicle "tombstone" article in early June still pisses me off. It was an insult to both the Astros players and the fans that stuck with them when things got rough.

Now the Chronicle writers are praising the Astros. What a piece of crap publication. They owe both the players and the fans an apology.

[rezdawg]

BUT so far we haven't had many injuries and right now everything "look"s good.



You mean other than Berkman and Bagwell?

[red]

At the start of the season i expected this team to win every game. After the first loss i expected the team to win every game thereafter and so forth.

As of today i expect the astyros to win the rest of their games...then sweep through the playoffs.

[thegary]

we started better than i expected, then, we played worse than i ever could have imagined. now, we are playing some of the best ball in the league. please mister purpura, earn your salary. GO STROS

[Xenon]

I expected a win total somewhere in the mid 80's. A contender for the 3rd spot in the Central and nothing more. I'm still a worried about the Astros future since we will likely be losing both Pettitte and Clemens in the next couple of seasons. You can't easily replace quality starters like that.

[juicystream]

I figured we were a .500 team. We still don't have a good chance at the World Series without adding a couple of pieces, but we should be able to win the wild card.

[leroy420]

I'd like to see NJRocket's response to this thread.

I wasn't sure at the beginning. I didn't think they would be as bad as some on here thought. It seemed that they were right until June. I thought they had the talent to make a playoff run. I knew they had no chance at the Cardinals. I figured a 2nd place finish but no playoffs. I know I'll be right about one of those things. I hope I'm right about the other.

[MadMax]

I never gave up. And the Chronicle "tombstone" article in early June still pisses me off. It was an insult to both the Astros players and the fans that stuck with them when things got rough.

Now the Chronicle writers are praising the Astros. What a piece of crap publication. They owe both the players and the fans an apology.

agreed entirely. writing off a team in early June is an insult to the Astros players..and an insult to baseball fans, in general. what a freaking joke.

i worked for the chronicle one summer as an intern...i used to LOVE the chronicle, particularly the sports section. now, i think it's a freaking joke. i dropped my subscription about a year ago.

as for the 'stros...i thought they'd be competitive. my opinion was written off, because i'm a homer. but that's what i thought. starting pitching flat out wins. when you have the best rotation in baseball, you will be in contention. i can't remember a team that didn't at least stay competitive with great starting pitching...it masks a lot of other shortcomings.

[Major]

agreed entirely. writing off a team in early June is an insult to the Astros players..and an insult to baseball fans, in general. what a freaking joke.


Out of curiousity, does anyone know if a team 15 games under 0.500 has ever come back to win a wildcard or division title?

[MadMax]

Out of curiousity, does anyone know if a team 15 games under 0.500 has ever come back to win a wildcard or division title?

i don't know for sure.

but the astros and a's have BOTH come back from similar deficits this year to contend. this year, alone.

and on the heels of last year...a tombstone article in early June is pretty friggin stupid.

[msn]

I'd like to see NJRocket's response to this thread.
Failure to plan B is planning to fail. :D

[Nick]

Before the season, I chimed in with my 2 cents that any team with great pitching (not good... but great) is always in contention... no matter what sort of bats they had.

I also made the point that I didn't think the Astros offense was THAT bad. I thought playing in MMP, letting guys like Lane/Burke/and Scott prove themselves, and treading water till Berkman came back would be enough.

I guess, in the end, my "predictions" ended up being 50/50. Yes... great pitching can carry a mediocre offense, but a completley INEPT offense can be death to any team... even if they're throwing Gibson/Koufax/Clemens out there.

Another "prediction" I had was that either Ensberg or Lane was going to HAVE to have a big year for us to have a shot at making the playoffs.... Morgan is making that happen.

[Drewdog]

I'll admit that I turned the Astros off at the beginning of the season. I didnt want to watch.... The Beltran deal completely deflated me. I wanted to blame Drayton for our misery. Now I feel bad, like I turned my back on my team. I dont remember ever doing that until this season. Of course now Im watching again and cheering for another great comeback, but I feel like a fair weather fan. Shame on me!!

[pgabriel]

One thing about this season is the Astros are cleaning up on a very mediocre NL. When they were on their run that was stopped by the Cards, I was going to post that its good they are cleaning up on bad teams but they will have their problems with the better squads.

Well there's only one very good team in the NL, the Cardinals, and the Astros can compete with everyone else.

[thegary]

One thing about this season is the Astros are cleaning up on a very mediocre NL.

totally agree. but, i think this is a good sign. we are not as good as the cards, we need a bat or two. we beat the teams we're better than and lose to those with more ammo. purpura needs to get to work. our pitching staff isn't getting any younger.

[MadMax]

One thing about this season is the Astros are cleaning up on a very mediocre NL. When they were on their run that was stopped by the Cards, I was going to post that its good they are cleaning up on bad teams but they will have their problems with the better squads.

Well there's only one very good team in the NL, the Cardinals, and the Astros can compete with everyone else.

i totally agree...

but i'll add that in baseball, teams really aren't fiiring on all cylinders all the time. baseball becomes pretty unpredictable when it comes down to one playoff series. the cards played awesome against us last week...but then just gave up 2/3 to the Cubs at home. anything can happen.

honestly, looking around the NL, i'm really excited about the Astros' chances to win the Wild Card. i don't see a team that's better positioned at this point. particularly given unbalanced scheduling and the fact these NL East teams keep having to beat up on each other.

[NJRocket]

I'd like to see NJRocket's response to this thread.

.

ok....here ya go...

I honestly thought we would be AT BEST an 80 win team. Going into the year we were a horrible offensive team with excellent starting pitching and , imo, the best closer in the game. I actually thought 70-75 wins was more realistic.

here is where I have been proven wrong (and gladly proven wrong I might add)...

Ensberg has more than made up for the loss of Kent. If you take Kent + Ensberg of '04....and compare it to Ensberg + Burke of '05....i think we gained. I never thought that was possible. Not in a million yrs.

While we may have lost out if you compare the playoff Beltran of '04 vs Tavares....we haven't really lost on the regular season Beltran vs Tavares. If you told me Willie would be hitting almost .300 and in contention for ROY, I wouldn't have totally thought you were nuts...but doing it while he knows he HAS to be the table setter because our lineup only goes 5 deep is another story. Even with the recent gaffs in the outfield he has committed, i really dont think we lost a whole lot defensively....in fact, Willie has a better...make than MUCH better arm than Carlos. I suppose if Beltran was on pace for 40/40, this comparison would be moot.....but I was fully expecting the 40/40 Beltran when I was pissed we didnt sign him.

Clemens is even better than I thought he would be. I think everyone on this board would agree with that. I mean, he is an absolute freak of human nature. I knew he would be good but I didn't know how motivated he would be pitching with this lineup.

Pettitte, while he has an occasional slight setback, looks like the guy I used to watch in Yankee Stadium. The guy is a pit bull. He smells success a mile away and I guarantee he will be there for us down the stretch...because he is still one of the best "big game" pitchers in the league. We would have a ring right now if he was healthy last year...no question about it.

Unfortunately, I thought Backe would be a bit better...but he has been good enuf to the point that we are 3 1/2 out of the WC so its not all bad obviously.

I certainly did not think that Wheeler would become the setup man that he has. I certainly never thought Id be hoping to get to the 8th with a lead so Wheeler could come in a make the bridge to Lidge :eek:


I also thought, once we started out 15 games under .500 and 2-20 on the road, that we would never see .500 again this year (I think even camp Drayton had their doubts I would imagine).

I also figured Florida to be one of the, if not THE best team in the NL East...forcing us to compete with them and Atlanta. I figured Atl and Fla for 90 wins a piece and given our lineup, I didnt expect to come anywhere close. Looking at our lineup vs Atl's and Fla's at the begining of the season wasn;t the most promising thing in the world. But, like RM and others said ...i am guessing msn said it too if RM said it ;) ...that's why they play the games. Then again, I cetrtainly didn;t expect to be chasing Washington so I guess its sort of a wash.

Overall, we are the "it" team right now. Baseball Tonight can't get thru an hour without mentioning our climb. There is an aura in the stands these days that was non existant early in the year...trust me...I have been to most of the games.....and you can tell the difference. I still think we need a bat to get over the "hump". As good as Palmiero has been lately, I dont think a Palmiero/Lane platoon is going to be our saving grace...althought I've been wrong before ;)

All I can say is that I am glad I was proven wrong...this has turned into the Summer of Excitement!

[leroy420]

^^^

It's good to see you say those things, NJR.

I totally agree with your point about Pettitte and what might have been last season.

[MadMax]

NJRocket --

i hear ya on being the "it" team. all of them love the Astros. on Mike and Mike this morning they were talking about how well they're positioned to win the wild card. Brantley was on SportsCenter talking about how with that starting staff, he thinks they'll win the wild card. lots of love for our boys.

great post by the way...you're right...there have been a lot of really nice surprises.

[Xerobull]

I generally don't pay much attention to the beginning of the baseball season other than watching the standings. I am focused on the Rox. I have to say that I thought that the 'Stros were through, though, around the time of the infamous 'tombstone' Houston Chronicle article. Last year I had hope, this year I just felt like it was an off year. I am so glad I was wrong. If we keep up these winning ways, we will clinch and run away with the Wild Card. Heck, if the Cards weren't in our division, we would win that, too. I suppose there is even an outside shot of catching them.

Good times. It's no suprise to see the national media giving us love- they have always loved the 'Stros, and want to give us the love.

[sums41]

Am i the only one surprised that Luke Scott didn't do so good in the majors?

/oh, i am.
/i still think he'll be part of the Astros next year. He's kind of the Nachbar of the Astros, only better i guess.

[MadMax]

Am i the only one surprised that Luke Scott didn't do so good in the majors?

/oh, i am.
/i still think he'll be part of the Astros next year. He's kind of the Nachbar of the Astros, only better i guess.

you can't succeed with a haircut like that. seriously.

[Joe Joe]

I thought the Astros starting rotation would keep the Astros in contention long enough for them to make a trade for another big bat.

Specifically, I expected Burke to hit like Taveras. Taveras to hit like Burke. Lane to hit for higher average. Ausmus to hit for worse. Didn't know what to expect from Luke. I was hoping he could atleast hit .240 with good power numbers, but that was hope. I expected Bagwell to stink up the place.

[Saint Louis]

I was hoping for a .500 record for the first two months until Berkman was back at full speed. The Astros atrocious start left me feeling like the season had already been lost. Their hot June and August have reinvigorated my hopes for this season.

Go Stros! I want my revenge against the wife's beloved Cardinals!

[bobrek]

I was hoping for a .500 record for the first two months until Berkman was back at full speed. The Astros atrocious start left me feeling like the season had already been lost. Their hot June and August have reinvigorated my hopes for this season.

Go Stros! I want my revenge against the wife's beloved Cardinals!

Do you know something we don't?

[sums41]

you can't succeed with a haircut like that. seriously.


damitt, i have a haircut like that too, that explain my loser ways. :D

[Trader_Jorge]

Before we get too juiced up, this is a team that was 1 game away from the World Series last year, on the cusp of greatness, prior to the disastrous off season. People are acting like this is a success. We are like 11 games behind St Louis and 3 back of the WC. Is that living up to expectations? Well, it's living up to our re-adjusted expectations after getting off to a slow start. If you told me that this is where we'd be at this point in the season after the end of last year, then I'd be disappointed. Perspective makes all the difference. Let's not go around thinking the front office did us any favors, because frankly, they botched Kent and Beltran about as badly as one could have botched it. It has taken miracle years from Ensberg, Taveras and Wheeler to keep us where we are today -- which is out of the playoffs if the season ended tomorrow.

[MadMax]

Before we get too juiced up, this is a team that was 1 game away from the World Series last year, on the cusp of greatness, prior to the disastrous off season. People are acting like this is a success. We are like 11 games behind St Louis and 3 back of the WC. Is that living up to expectations? Well, it's living up to our re-adjusted expectations after getting off to a slow start. If you told me that this is where we'd be at this point in the season after the end of last year, then I'd be disappointed. Perspective makes all the difference. Let's not go around thinking the front office did us any favors, because frankly, they botched Kent and Beltran about as badly as one could have botched it. It has taken miracle years from Ensberg, Taveras and Wheeler to keep us where we are today -- which is out of the playoffs if the season ended tomorrow.

good morning, sunshine.

[bobrek]

Before we get too juiced up, this is a team that was 1 game away from the World Series last year, on the cusp of greatness, prior to the disastrous off season. People are acting like this is a success. We are like 11 games behind St Louis and 3 back of the WC. Is that living up to expectations? Well, it's living up to our re-adjusted expectations after getting off to a slow start. If you told me that this is where we'd be at this point in the season after the end of last year, then I'd be disappointed. Perspective makes all the difference. Let's not go around thinking the front office did us any favors, because frankly, they botched Kent and Beltran about as badly as one could have botched it. It has taken miracle years from Ensberg, Taveras and Wheeler to keep us where we are today -- which is out of the playoffs if the season ended tomorrow.

The question deals with how did people expec the season to progress based on the roster that began the season, NOT the roster that could/should have been.

What were YOUR expectations after the "disastrous" off season? Obviously you didn't even think they would be within 5 games of the playoffs on September 1 (at least not after their 15-23 start), so I would think their current situation would qualify as a huge success in your mind.

[MadMax]

damitt, i have a haircut like that too, that explain my loser ways. :D

break out the clippers. thow a #2 setting on that. trim it back. trim it down. best of luck.

[Groogrux]

Before we get too juiced up, this is a team that was 1 game away from the World Series last year, on the cusp of greatness, prior to the disastrous off season. People are acting like this is a success. We are like 11 games behind St Louis and 3 back of the WC. Is that living up to expectations? Well, it's living up to our re-adjusted expectations after getting off to a slow start. If you told me that this is where we'd be at this point in the season after the end of last year, then I'd be disappointed. Perspective makes all the difference. Let's not go around thinking the front office did us any favors, because frankly, they botched Kent and Beltran about as badly as one could have botched it. It has taken miracle years from Ensberg, Taveras and Wheeler to keep us where we are today -- which is out of the playoffs if the season ended tomorrow.

Nevermind the fact that it took an absolute miracle for the team last year to make the post-season and that didn't even start until two months after we traded for Beltran.

If Rice alum Lance Berkman hadn't have torn his knee up playing flag ****ing football, we'd probably be in the wild card lead at this point. With the way Beltran's played this year, I'm not sure you can say that if we resigned him. I'll take Miracle Taveras and his $310K over Beltran and his $15 million any day of the week.

[MadMax]

Nevermind the fact that it took an absolute miracle for the team last year to make the post-season and that didn't even start until two months after we traded for Beltran.

If Rice alum Lance Berkman hadn't have torn his knee up playing flag ****ing football, we'd probably be in the wild card lead at this point. With the way Beltran's played this year, I'm not sure you can say that if we resigned him. I'll take Miracle Taveras and his $310K over Beltran and his $15 million any day of the week.


But Beltran has that TOTALLY SWEET .317 OBP!!!! I'm so pissed we didn't sign that guy!!!

(btw..that's not a typo...seriously.... .317 OBP.....damn, that's bad)

[Trader_Jorge]

So if the season ended today, you boys would be happy about it? Go from one game away from the World Series to out of the playoffs? If that's a success in your book, then frankly I don't know what would constitute a failure. Seriously. This team has the pitching staff to be in first place. It does not have the bats to be in first place. Drayton gave away two bats this offseason for zilch. See any correlation there? Nah, you probably don't.

[Drewdog]

But Beltran has that TOTALLY SWEET .317 OBP!!!! I'm so pissed we didn't sign that guy!!!

(btw..that's not a typo...seriously.... .317 OBP.....damn, that's bad)

Blame Drayton! ;)

[bobrek]

So if the season ended today, you boys would be happy about it? Go from one game away from the World Series to out of the playoffs? If that's a success in your book, then frankly I don't know what would constitute a failure. Seriously. This team has the pitching staff to be in first place. It does not have the bats to be in first place. Drayton gave away two bats this offseason for zilch. See any correlation there? Nah, you probably don't.

No one has said they'd be happy about the season if it ended today. Still though, you haven't answered my question:

How did you expect this season to go AFTER the "disastrous" off season? Did you expect them to be in the thick of the wild card race at the end of July? You certainly did not expect them to be within 5 games of the playoffs on September 1st after their 15-23 start.

As of today, would you still bet they would NOT be within 5 games of the playoffs on September 1st?

[Trader_Jorge]

How did you expect this season to go AFTER the "disastrous" off season?

I expected them to be over 10 games back of St Louis and out of the playoffs. As of today's standings I was right.

Had Drayton had anything other than the worst offseason in Astros history, we would be competing for the division crown, not fighting for the wild card scraps.

See this is the problem. Drayton is very content with this season. He's thinking, 'hey I didn't spend any money in the offseason, and we still have a chance at the playoffs.' He's content with this version of mediocrity. After last season, he should have been striving for excellence. Instead, he settles for less than the best.

[Groogrux]

Beltran's .317 OBP would have us competing with the Cardinals right now...no doubt about it.

If we'd have had Berkman, whose knee was probably torn by McLane, for the whole season, we would be in the wild card lead at this point. That's more disastrous than losing Beltran and his getting on base at that rabid clip.

[Nick]

So if the season ended today, you boys would be happy about it?

I love it when people bust out the ol "if the season ended today..."

What... is Bud Selig all of a sudden going to stop playing baseball on July 26th? Was there some unforseen memo sent out?? Hell... if the season ended today, the A's (not the Yankees) would be the wild card in the AL... that can't be good for business.

The bottom line is that yes, this team played horribly in the 1st half... but they aren't anymore. Yes, they could have forked over the $150 million to try to ensure that Beltran would sign (still not a guarantee, though... he wanted NY), but how would it have played out had he underperformed, as he's doing this year, and we had absolutely no chances to improve?

Another fallacy was that this team was flawless last year in getting w/in one game of the series. It took a miracle run of 36-10 to barely squeak in.... sure, we were all happy, but "if the season ended on July 26th last year"... there would be complaints everywhere (and there'd be no excuses either).

Frankly, this team has suddenly been more consistent in the way they win their ballgames... doing it strictly with pitching and timely hitting (whereas last year's team would be awful on offense for weeks at a time... then go 10 games with tearing the cover off the ball... with only Roy/Roger being the solid pitchers, and they were both pitching worse last year than they are this year).

In the end, we likely will not need another miracle run to win this year's wild card... we actually control our own destiny from here on out (provided we don't collapse to the Mets this weekend, and play respectably in our 10 games against the Cubs). In many ways, its going to be EASIER from this point on, than last year, for this team to be in playoff contention.... and I have no problems with that.

[Joe Joe]

But Beltran has that TOTALLY SWEET .317 OBP!!!! I'm so pissed we didn't sign that guy!!!

(btw..that's not a typo...seriously.... .317 OBP.....damn, that's bad)

.330, .306, .295 ...... .317 OBP looks mighty nice if you look at who the Astros are throwing out in the outfield. It makes you realize just how good Berkman and Ensberg are playing.

[NJRocket]

TJ - i think what the boys are saying is GIVEN the offseason, and GIVEN the expectations (or lack thereof) of this team (of which I had none)....you have to be happy about where we are right now.

When we were 15 games under and loking like we should have Chico's Bail Bonds stenciled on our backs, if a genie said to you (time to use that willing suspension of disbelief) "TJ- you can take your chances on your own or I will put the Astros 3 games out of the WC on July 26"...you would probably pick the latter. I know I would have because I didnt think we had a prayer. In fact, someone suggested a tip jar bet of like 50 bucks if we were within 5 games of the WC at some pt in the season....and I think I said "make it 1000"....whoever it was - I owe you a beer, or 10! Thanks for not taking the bet!

TJ - as a fan....you gotta be pleased.....no?

[NJRocket]

, we would be competing for the division crown, not fighting for the wild card scraps.

.

didnt the past few (or like 4 of the last 5) WS winners come from the WC teams?

[NJRocket]

TJ - eat some crow man!!!! If yours isn't cooked right, come have some of mine......its DELICIOUS!!!!!

[Trader_Jorge]

Of course I'm happy the team has risen from the grave to have an above .500 record. But then again, that's like congratulating your child for raising their average to a C after a string of F's.

[Nick]

.330, .306, .295 ...... .317 OBP looks mighty nice if you look at who the Astros are throwing out in the outfield. It makes you realize just how good Berkman and Ensberg are playing.

350K, 350K, 500K... those are what our outfielders are making this year.

Beltran makes that much (combined) every month.... it makes you realize just how overpaid that guy is for his 2 weeks of selling his soul to the Boras (ahem, Devil).

[Nick]

Of course I'm happy the team has risen from the grave to have an above .500 record. But then again, that's like congratulating your child for raising their average to a C after a string of F's.

Who says they're going to stop at C, though... would you discourage your child from continuing to improve?

If this team's health remains... there's no reason why they can't roll through the rest of the season. The only team they've struggled with all year has been St. Louis... and they only have 5 games left total with them (3 of them being home games).

[bobrek]

I expected them to be over 10 games back of St Louis and out of the playoffs. As of today's standings I was right.

Had Drayton had anything other than the worst offseason in Astros history, we would be competing for the division crown, not fighting for the wild card scraps.

See this is the problem. Drayton is very content with this season. He's thinking, 'hey I didn't spend any money in the offseason, and we still have a chance at the playoffs.' He's content with this version of mediocrity. After last season, he should have been striving for excellence. Instead, he settles for less than the best.

I'll type slower...

Prior to game one of the season did you think they would be COMPETING for a PLAYOFF spot in late July?

When they were 15-23 you DID NOT think they would be competing for a playoff spot this season - correct (simple question)?

Now that they are competing for a playoff spot, aren;t you the least bit happy about that?

[NJRocket]

Of course I'm happy the team has risen from the grave to have an above .500 record. But then again, that's like congratulating your child for raising their average to a C after a string of F's.

Yeah but what if he/she does it when Harvard starts taking C students? ;) Get my drift? Neither do i.

[Groogrux]

Of course I'm happy the team has risen from the grave to have an above .500 record. But then again, that's like congratulating your child for raising their average to a C after a string of F's.

But that C student could one day become President. Same as the wild card team, like four of the last five World Series champs, that could end up winning it all.

[bobrek]

Of course I'm happy the team has risen from the grave to have an above .500 record. But then again, that's like congratulating your child for raising their average to a C after a string of F's.

Bad analogy. If a child works hard to bring their grades up in the equivalent of one semester, they certainly deserve some recognition.

Although I guess if you were the parent in that situation, you must be comparing yourself to Drayton McLane and it is all your fault for the Fs and the child's credit for the Cs.

[MadMax]

.330, .306, .295 ...... .317 OBP looks mighty nice if you look at who the Astros are throwing out in the outfield. It makes you realize just how good Berkman and Ensberg are playing.

but we're not locked in for $17 mill with those fellas. and those fellas are actually showing improvement.

[MadMax]

Of course I'm happy the team has risen from the grave to have an above .500 record. But then again, that's like congratulating your child for raising their average to a C after a string of F's.

not even YOU can spoil my mood about these 'stros right now.

which i think is nearly an exact quote of what i told you last year.

[Trader_Jorge]

I'll type slower...

Prior to game one of the season did you think they would be COMPETING for a PLAYOFF spot in late July?

When they were 15-23 you DID NOT think they would be competing for a playoff spot this season - correct (simple question)?

Now that they are competing for a playoff spot, aren;t you the least bit happy about that?

I did not think the Astros would be a playoff participant, given their opening day roster. Guess what, as it stands they are not. I was right. This seems to anger you, because you keep asking the same question, hoping for a different response. Would you like me to tell you that the Astros are in first place?

When they were 15-23, I did make a bet with you that they'd be more than 5 games out of the wild card chase on Sep 1. Even after the miraculous run they've had, they are darn near 5 games out. Amazing how that represents an astonishing success in your book.

I have already answered your third question. Re-read my previous posts.

[Major]

I did not think the Astros would be a playoff participant, given their opening day roster. Guess what, as it stands they are not. I was right.

You don't seem to grasp that the season doesn't end today. The playoff teams aren't determined by the standings on July 26th, so no team is in the playoffs today. Unlike you, most people here have the ability to look forward and project reasonable standings as of Oct 2nd or whenever the season ends and see a far better final standing than you.

[Trader_Jorge]

Major, if I may veer off topic for a single post, how can you possibly have the gall to not make a contribution to this website, given your history of leeching off Rocketman95's account during heavy traffic times??? This is not even mentioning your thousands of posts. Contribute.

[Buck Turgidson]

TJ - eat some crow man!!!! If yours isn't cooked right, come have some of mine......its DELICIOUS!!!!!
The only person who's been eating more crow than you lately is Lance Armstrong.

Good job.

[Groogrux]

Trader_Jorge,

Quit trying to change the subject. Please give us your prediction on where the Astros will be when the regular season concludes. I will be happy to give you mine. I say we will win the wild card before the last series.

Thanks in advance.

[bobrek]

I did not think the Astros would be a playoff participant, given their opening day roster. Guess what, as it stands they are not. I was right. This seems to anger you, because you keep asking the same question, hoping for a different response. Would you like me to tell you that the Astros are in first place?

When they were 15-23, I did make a bet with you that they'd be more than 5 games out of the wild card chase on Sep 1. Even after the miraculous run they've had, they are darn near 5 games out. Amazing how that represents an astonishing success in your book.

I have already answered your third question. Re-read my previous posts.

You are absolutely correct. If the season were 100 games long, the Astros would be out of the playoffs. Fortunately, the season is 162 games long. It is odd how you are basing your correctness on the presumption that the season would be over today.

From 15-23 (and eventually 15-30) to 52-47 is indeed an astonishing success. Only 4 teams have ever been 15+ games under .500 before the all star break and recovered enough to be at or over .500 at the all star break.

My enjoyment from baseball comes from the Astros being competitive for the playoffs. Baseball is the most difficult of the major sports to make the playoffs, so to expect a playoff berth year in and year out is unrealistic. To expect competitiveness is what I ask.

Incidentally, would you make the same bet today? There may be some participnts in this thread who'd take you up on it.

[bobrek]

I did not think the Astros would be a playoff participant, given their opening day roster. Guess what, as it stands they are not. I was right. This seems to anger you, because you keep asking the same question, hoping for a different response. Would you like me to tell you that the Astros are in first place?

When they were 15-23, I did make a bet with you that they'd be more than 5 games out of the wild card chase on Sep 1. Even after the miraculous run they've had, they are darn near 5 games out. Amazing how that represents an astonishing success in your book.

I have already answered your third question. Re-read my previous posts.

One last question, since the Astros were in first place when they were 4-1, does that mean you were wrong in your thinking that the Astros would be a playoff participant, because had the season ended then, they would have won the division despite their "disastrous" offseason.

[Major]

Major, if I may veer off topic for a single post

No, you may not. :p

If you'd like to ask in email, feel free, but Clutch is kind enough to let me post here, so I will try to stay on topic.

[Saint Louis]

I was hoping for a .500 record for the first two months until Berkman was back at full speed. The Astros atrocious start left me feeling like the season had already been lost. Their hot June and August have reinvigorated my hopes for this season.

Do you know something we don't?

Whoa! I've suddenly started spouting out prophecies like Edgar Cayce. :D

[MadMax]

If anyone has ESPN Insider, I'm sure we'd all like to read Buster Olney's speculation about what's gonna go down at the trade deadline. I noticed the story, but I don't have access, and I'm too cheap to buy. I do like to mooch, however.

[NJRocket]

If anyone has ESPN Insider, I'm sure we'd all like to read Buster Olney's speculation about what's gonna go down at the trade deadline. I noticed the story, but I don't have access, and I'm too cheap to buy. I do like to mooch, however.

nothing on the astros worth noting....i will cut and paste though you cheap bastard ;)

[NJRocket]

here ya go...


There is some sentiment among executives that there won't be many trades between now and 4 p.m. ET on Sunday. Too many teams are too closely packed together in the standings. Too many teams are unwilling to define themselves as sellers at the same time they are trying to sell tickets. Too few good players are available, with their respective general managers asking for too many good prospects in return.
I still think there will be a lot of trades made on Saturday and Sunday as the deadline approaches. But what if there are few trades? What does that mean?

It probably means that help will be very hard to come by for the contenders the rest of the season. One of the gripes you hear these days is that the asking price for the likes of Mark Redman and Danys Baez is very, very high. "Off the charts," one general manager said Monday.

The demand for those players will still be there after the trade deadline passes, but the leverage possessed by the general managers dangling them will be mostly lost. The players will have to pass through waivers before they can be placed on the trade market again, meaning that 29 other teams will have a shot to put in a claim. And suddenly, the advantage in this summer's sellers' market will flip: All the buyers desperate for help now will probably be placing claims.

There would be virtually no chance that someone like Redman or Baez or Detroit's Jason Johnson would get through waivers. If Redman were claimed -- by the Marlins, for example -- then the Pirates could either work out a deal with Florida or withdraw Redman altogether and be unable to trade him.

Example No. 2: Right now, the Florida Marlins can dangle A.J. Burnett to a myriad of contenders, playing their offers against each other. But as soon as the trade deadline passes, there is no chance Burnett would get through waivers, and the Marlins would be limited to dealing with only the team that placed the claim -- and there's a possibility that would be a team in their division, like the Mets or Nationals, whose only intent would be to block a Burnett trade.

That's why I think there will be trades this weekend. As of 4 p.m. ET Sunday, the sellers' market we've all been talking about officially becomes a buyers' market.

Bad feelings in San Diego
• Now that Phil Nevin has rejected the trade to the Orioles, his situation in San Diego has the potential for getting pretty ugly. He's simply not going to play that much, now that the Padres are committed to shifting Xavier Nady to first base, and any frustration he feels will fester as he sits and watches.

• Tampa Bay continues to give problems to the AL East contenders -- beating the Red Sox this time. David Wells has some advice for Lou Piniella. Curt Schilling has not solved Boston's bullpen problems. Kevin Millar says he'd go with the Red Sox, as comprised, and that a trade isn't necessary. But then, what else can he say?

• The Astros pounded the Phillies in the first game of their series. Jeff Bagwell doesn't know what his future as a player will be, as Richard Justice writes.

• The Orioles now know that Nevin is not going to Baltimore, they still haven't acquired a pitcher, and they lost more ground in the wild-card standings with a loss to the Rangers. At least Javy Lopez is back.

• Florida is committed to keeping Dontrelle Willis and Miguel Cabrera, if not A.J. Burnett, although there is some feeling among rival executives that the Marlins might hang onto Burnett since they're hanging around in the wild-card race. Mike Berardino thinks the Marlins should stand pat.

• J.J. Hardy is benefiting from some hitting tips he got from a top Brewers prospect. Doug Melvin knows what it means to be aggressive at the trade deadline.

• It's a sellers' market, and the Mets are finding the prices exorbitant, especially for the likes of Alfonso Soriano and Danys Baez. The Mets opened their road trip with a loss to the Colorado Rockies. The Mets remain bitter about dealing with the Tampa Bay Devil Rays, by the way, as mentioned in this story.

• Todd Helton is dealing come up lame with a calf problem that he says is not serious.

• Bob Finnigan reports the Mariners have discussed a possible swap for the Yankees' Carl Pavano. In a Monday night victory over the Tigers, Adrian Beltre and Richie Sexson gave the Mariners exactly what they paid for. Jeremy Bonderman has dropped his appeal on a suspension.

• With the Nationals needing some offense, Jim Bowden issues a challenge. They're expected to get Nick Johnson back from the disabled list, and that should help.

• The outfield wall over which Bill Mazeroski's home run flew is the subject of preservation efforts.

• The White Sox got a lift from Jermaine Dye's bat and glove in a victory over the Royals on Monday night. Chicago continues to be mentioned prominently in the A.J. Burnett rumor mill. The White Sox think Frank Thomas will be back this year.

• Rich Hill gave the Cubs a boost as they search for a replacement for Kerry Wood. When Wood gets back, it looks like he'll be used as a reliever. Dusty Baker was taken aback by a story about Corey Patterson.

• Derek Lowe dominated the Reds on Monday night, allowing one hit. Paul DePodesta is in a tough spot as the trade deadline gets closer.

• Mickey Hatcher is the Angels' answer man.

• In this notebook from Monday, heat remedies are noted.

• Half the Cardinals' everyday lineup is on the DL now, with the addition of Larry Walker.

• The Athletics never lose anymore, and now they lead the AL wild-card race. Jason Kendall has struggled in his first season in Oakland, but he has played very hard.

[MadMax]

wow, you're right. not much there. nevertheless, i owe you lunch! :)

[NJRocket]

wow, you're right. not much there. nevertheless, i owe you lunch! :)

his columns are usually a bunch of nothing....i like reading gammons more...and kurkjan too....ready Olney is like reading rotoworld

[Groogrux]

Hello darkness my old friend...

[MadMax]

Hello darkness my old friend...

you brown-noser.