Damon visits Toyota Center today

[Faos]

Maybe this is why the cars are there today.

Apparently Stoudamire got the royal treatment from the Rockets brass today. That's all I know.

[Deuce]

Maybe this is why the cars are there today.
Apparently Stoudamire got the royal treatment from the Rockets brass today. That's all I know.

Damon Stoudamire with the LLE and Stromile with the MLE. That would be awesome! :)

....Of course the cynic could say we are showing Damon around because we are going to offer him part of the MLE (and perhaps the other part to some other PF like Othella Harrington or Mikki Moore) because our plans for Stromile fell threw. :(

[Brando2101]

Where did you get that information from?

[Rileydog]

Damon is a sign that we're dealing a guard in a SNT.

[KaiSeR SoZe]

I don't want to draw any conclusions on Damon but damn we need a PF

[Faos]

Where did you get that information from?

Either someone close to the Rockets told me or I saw him in person. You figure it out. :)

[wrath_of_khan]

Maybe this is why the cars are there today.

Apparently Stoudamire got the royal treatment from the Rockets brass today. That's all I know.

Outstanding news.

I know he and Wesley make an undersized backcourt tandem, but I am liking the thought of Mighty Mouse on this team the more I think about it.

Why not bench Wesley and start Sura at the 2?

[DCballer]

I can verify this.

[reggietodd]

I don't want to draw any conclusions on Damon but damn we need a PF

You know what? We may not be able to get a good power forward this year. If thats the case, its not the end of the world. We still need to improve the team any way we can and hopefully get a power forward either in the middle of the season with a trade or just wait until next year and make due with what we have at the 4. Either way, just because we need a 4, doesn't mean we should not look at others ways of improving the team with guards, centers, etc...

[tigermission1]

I can verify this.

Great news! For the right money, Damon would be perfect fit on this team.

DCballer, we are desperate for anything Rockets related, so PLEASE chime in even if you think it's silly news and nothing major.

Thanks :)

[tested911]

I don't want to draw any conclusions on Damon but damn we need a PF


My thoughts exactly ...

Lets see entice a PG to join the rockets even though we have 5 guards :confused: and not put all efforts and stops to aquire a real need at the four.. They better pull a rabit out of there @@# soon :)

[reggietodd]

Why not bench Wesley and start Sura at the 2?

Because Sura is not a good shooter. A 2 guard is also know as a "shooting guard".

[Brando2101]

so let's assume damon wants to do a S and T the the blaz are game. Does that mean WEsley and Sura are gone? Would they even want wesley? Such a shame to lose a guy like Bobby

[RocksMillenium]

I'm sure the Rockets are going after a forward and Damon. They already made their offer to Swift so they know what they can give to Stoudamire.

[thacabbage]

My thoughts exactly ...

Lets see entice a PG to join the rockets even though we have 5 guards :confused: and not put all efforts and stops to aquire a real need at the four.. They better pull a rabit out of there @@# soon :)
Yea, because the season starts tommorrow.

[Plowman]

C'mon,give it up Faos. :cool: How about Les,CD,JVG,and Tracy welcoming Stromile Swift and Damon Stoudamire?

[Toast]

so let's assume damon wants to do a S and T the the blaz are game. Does that mean WEsley and Sura are gone? Would they even want wesley? Such a shame to lose a guy like Bobby

Nah, I'm still holding out hope we can do a sing & trade for Swift and then sign Damon w/ some MLE money.

[desihooper]

Wasn't the rumor around draft time that the Rockets would send Sura and Wesley to Portland for Ratliff and a guard?

Can a player who just re-signed with a team be be involved in a multi-player sign and trade deal? Or can he not be combined with any mutli-player deals?

[wrath_of_khan]

Because Sura is not a good shooter. A 2 guard is also know as a "shooting guard".

Well, Wesley wasn't exactly shooting lights out by the end of last season.

Besides, the beauty of Mighty Mouse is that he's a great long-range shooter. That allows you to start Sura at the 2.

[LFE171]

Outstanding news.

I know he and Wesley make an undersized backcourt tandem, but I am liking the thought of Mighty Mouse on this team the more I think about it.

Why not bench Wesley and start Sura at the 2?

I agree. Sura starting at two gives us the offguard who can rebound and can penetrate if need be. He can also share PT with head and barry (when we resign)

We really need to start getting rid of these guards. Hopefully the SNT will happen to where we free up these useless guards.

[studogg]

Wasn't the rumor around draft time that the Rockets would send Sura and Wesley to Portland for Ratliff and a guard?

Can a player who just re-signed with a team be be involved in a multi-player sign and trade deal? Or can he not be combined with any mutli-player deals?

after a player is signed or re-signed, the only way he can be traded within 90 days is if it's a straight up trade. You can not include other players.

[forchette49]

Two positive things to take from this:

1. This is tell-tale sign of a SNT. If not with the Blazers along with SAR, then at the All-Star Break with expiring contracts. What would we have like 9, 10 guards on the active roster?!? MLE remains intact for a PF?

2. Damon Stoudamire is an absolute Rocket Killer!!! If you can't beat 'em...

[stevel]

My thoughts exactly ...

Lets see entice a PG to join the rockets even though we have 5 guards :confused: and not put all efforts and stops to aquire a real need at the four.. They better pull a rabit out of there @@# soon :)

If we do not get a four by the start of the season it does not mean that the need will not be addressed. Honestly, none of the 4s are ideal. They are all lacking in some area. Don't get me wrong 3 or 4 would be an upgrade over what we have, but not as much as some would on the board would think - I think this is why there is such a split on which to one get. SAR and AW are better offensively, but not much different the JH defensively. Swift has the most potential to help us, but if he were all that I would think Memphis would have done more to keep him. The thing that scares me about Swift is the lack of deisre/heart to play hard consistently. I have also heard that he is not the sharpest tool in the shed. Anyway, my point is I can guarantee that the 4 will be addressed, and if the don't do it at the start of the year we will make a trade later. The closer we get to the trade deadline the more our expiring contracts will be worth. BDavis and VC were obtained via trades for basically expiring contracts and draft picks. There is no reason we cannot do the same later on during the year.

[reggietodd]

I agree. Sura starting at two gives us the offguard who can rebound and can penetrate if need be. He can also share PT with head and barry (when we resign)

We really need to start getting rid of these guards. Hopefully the SNT will happen to where we free up these useless guards.

You guys are so wrong about putting sura at the two. Let me ask you this, when did this team turn it around and start winning last year? WHEN WE GOT WESLEY. Thats because we finally had someone who could hit the open shots.

Sure, Sura got healthy and a few other things came together, but the main thing is that we got a shooter, someone to hit 3's and bail out yao and tmac when they got in trouble or double teamed. I don't think most of you realize how important wesley is to this team. You have to have someone who can knock down open jumpers, we don't need anyone to create off the dribble or create their own shots, thats what tmac and yao are for.

Look at all the great teams, you have a 1-2 punch and the rest of the role players either get rebounds, play defense or knock down open jumpers.

[Yonkers]

Where did you get that information from?

I have a friend who has a friend who might be a ball boy next year that can verify this. :)

[Zacatecas]

The Rockets need a true point guard running the show. Damon is coming off a max contract. He wants to win a title. He likely is willing to take less MONEY. The Rockets have a lot of point guards on the Roster who are combo guards; Sura, James, and Head. Norris and Ward should probably not even be in the NBA anymore. Wesley and Barry are strictly shooting guards.

This team really needs Damon Stoudomire or another pure point guard. Someone that will lead the fast break. Currently we've had among the best rebounding point guards in the league with Francis and Sura. This is probably the reason the fast breaks aren't as prolific as they should be with McGrady.

Welcome to Houston Stoudomire.

[Jacquescas]

I like mighty mouse at the LLE. I think they will hold off making a bigger offer until after the Stro situation cleans up.

IF we have to go sign and trade and we are forced to take a bad contract from Portland it seems the choice would be Theo Ratliff or Derek Anderson possibly Darius Miles but he would be worth more compensation. If they are trying to dump salary it could be Ratliff who has 3 years 33 million left. He isn't exactly what we need @ the 4, but he is the best shot blocker in the league and he could play next to Yao and would be a good defensive compliment to Howard.

If its Derek Anderson its a guard that isn't undersized. We easily have enough in expiring contracts to make it work especially with the new CBA and more lax trade rules (from 15% to 25%)

PLus we'd still have our MLE for whatever.

[The Real Shady]

IF we have to go sign and trade and we are forced to take a bad contract from Portland it seems the choice would be Theo Ratliff or Derek Anderson possibly Darius Miles but he would be worth more compensation. If they are trying to dump salary it could be Ratliff who has 3 years 33 million left. He isn't exactly what we need @ the 4, but he is the best shot blocker in the league and he could play next to Yao and would be a good defensive compliment to Howard.


I like this idea very much. Ratliff will give us exactly what we had with Cato, and he would provide nice protection for Yao. A combination of Howard and Ratliff at the 4 will give the Rockets nicely contrasting pieces.

[idrockfan]

If we do end up getting mighty mouse, that also means JWill is probably not going to be involved in any trade if we do SNT for Stro.

[wrath_of_khan]

... You have to have someone who can knock down open jumpers...


Like I said, Mighty Mouse will be the one to knock down the open Js.

Anyway, what about Wesley getting abused on the defensive end in the playoffs by bigger guards? The fact is that Wesley is undersized at off-guard -- no matter how many open Js he hits (or doesn't hit -- like he did at the end of the year).

Sura gives you size at the 2; Mighty Mouse gives you the guy who can hit open Js. So you get the best of both worlds.

[Furious Jam]

If we do end up getting mighty mouse, that also means JWill is probably not going to be involved in any trade if we do SNT for Stro.

Wasn't likely to happen anyway. I doubt JVG is willing to put up with White Chocolate. Mighty Mouse has had his share of problems off-court, but as far as I know, he's always been easy to deal with as a player.

[Nero]

Like I said, Mighty Mouse will be the one to knock down the open Js.

Anyway, what about Wesley getting abused on the defensive end in the playoffs by bigger guards? The fact is that Wesley is undersized at off-guard -- no matter how many open Js he hits (or doesn't hit -- like he did at the end of the year).

Sura gives you size at the 2; Mighty Mouse gives you the guy who can hit open Js. So you get the best of both worlds.


But how is his defense on someone like that little punk, jason terry??

[RocksMillenium]

But how is his defense on someone like that little punk, jason terry??

Good question. Then again, how is Terry going to stop Stoudemire?

[wrath_of_khan]

But how is his defense on someone like that little punk, jason terry??

How was Wesley's D on Jason Terry?

Look, we can go team-by-team and find bad matchups for any potential backcourt. I'm only trying to refute the point that many people made that we shouldn't sign Damon because he's 5'10" and, with Wesley at 6'1", our backcourt would be too small.

What I'm saying is that we shouldn't let that stop us; we have interchangable guards and should take advantage of that -- and not let Damon's height scare us off because Wesley is also short (as some have suggested).

[Nero]

How was Wesley's D on Jason Terry?

Look, we can go team-by-team and find bad matchups for any potential backcourt. I'm only trying to refute the point that many people made that we shouldn't sign Damon because he's 5'10" and, with Wesley at 6'1", our backcourt would be too small.

What I'm saying is that we shouldn't let that stop us; we have interchangable guards and should take advantage of that -- and not let Damon's height scare us off because Wesley is also short (as some have suggested).


Don't get me wrong - I am not saying that DS being short, or wondering how his defense would be on Terry, are any reasons not to have him. I would liek to ahve the guy.

I am just seriously wondering how he is defensively? We know JVG is a stickler for that, and so for DS to even be considered here, JVG must think he also has at least some decent ability defensively.. but never having watched him play much, I just don't know.. if anyone is able to speak about DS' defense, I am genuinely interested.

Plus, I just can't stand that little twerp terry. Grr.

[kaleidosky]

You guys are so wrong about putting sura at the two. Let me ask you this, when did this team turn it around and start winning last year? WHEN WE GOT WESLEY. Thats because we finally had someone who could hit the open shots.

Sure, Sura got healthy and a few other things came together, but the main thing is that we got a shooter, someone to hit 3's and bail out yao and tmac when they got in trouble or double teamed. I don't think most of you realize how important wesley is to this team. You have to have someone who can knock down open jumpers, we don't need anyone to create off the dribble or create their own shots, thats what tmac and yao are for.

Look at all the great teams, you have a 1-2 punch and the rest of the role players either get rebounds, play defense or knock down open jumpers.

Wow.. you're putting the entire turnaround on Wesley's ability to hit shots. There were way too many factors to pin it on that. Plus, how is Sura/Wesley different from Damon/Sura in terms of shooting? I think Damon is as good a spot-up shooter as Wesley, if not better...I think Damon's %age goes down b/c of the other shots he has taken. He likes to create for himself (which Wesley can't do).

Wesley was way too inconsistent to imply that we really need to keep him for this team to succeed.

[Jacquescas]

I think we get Damon it clearly means there is going to be a trade of guards. I think one of the moves will be to add more size @ the 2. I just cant see us going in with 2 starting guards under 6'1.

[pugsly8422]

2. Damon Stoudamire is an absolute Rocket Killer!!! If you can't beat 'em...

Sign 'em? :D

Pugs

[Sleepy]

Sura at the 2 is a joke. Noway in --- would I put Sura at the 2 trade him with wesley and get a real shooting guard.

[kaleidosky]

The Rockets need a true point guard running the show. Damon is coming off a max contract. He wants to win a title. He likely is willing to take less MONEY. The Rockets have a lot of point guards on the Roster who are combo guards; Sura, James, and Head. Norris and Ward should probably not even be in the NBA anymore. Wesley and Barry are strictly shooting guards.

This team really needs Damon Stoudomire or another pure point guard. Someone that will lead the fast break. Currently we've had among the best rebounding point guards in the league with Francis and Sura. This is probably the reason the fast breaks aren't as prolific as they should be with McGrady.

Welcome to Houston Stoudomire.

You're calling Damon a "pure point guard"? First of all, why do the Rockets need a "true point guard" so badly? They need a shooter who can defend, penetrate and kick somewhat, and bring the ball up. They don't particularly need someone to handle the ball a lot because of T-Mac. It's not like we can run T off screens all game long.. I don't think having guys who can lead the fast break will suddenly turn us into a running team. We did what we could last year, but having Damon wouldn't have changed us THAT much in terms of running, imo.

And yeah, second, since when has Damon been a pure point? He's a solid distributor, but he loves to score. He's a shooter, he likes to shoot the floaters and midrange J's. I think he's as much a scorer/shooter as Cassell..

[kaleidosky]

Sura at the 2 is a joke. Noway in --- would I put Sura at the 2 trade him with wesley and get a real shooting guard.

I wouldn't want Sura at the 2. I was just trying to say that Damon/Sura vs. Sura/Wesley is essentially the same in terms of shooting. So saying that signing Damon is hurting us by "underestimating Wesley's ability to hit 3's" is dumb because we don't lose a whole lot in terms of shooting. I agree that Sura at the 2 isn't a great solution. I'd much rather have Sura as what I hoped he'd be at the beginning of last year--a backup 1/2/3 who gets 30ish mpg

[shawn786]

If we can land Swift & Damon than T-Mac will have the team he wants. Like he said him self, "I want Swift & Damon."

[DieHard Rocket]

Adding a guy like Stoudemire gives us a perimeter threat, a legit point guard, and most of all gives us the flexibility we may need in order to get a PF or SG. With Damon on board, that frees up Mike James to be included in a deal, maybe a package with Wesley to upgrade our SG spot...and it wouldn't even have to be in the offseason, it could easily be a mid-season trade.

Hopefully Damon would take the vet. exception, still allowing us to grab a PF with the MLE. That way we can evaluate the team during the season and decide what position to go after toward the trade deadline. A lineup at the start of the season looking like this:

PG: Stoudamire / Sura / James
SG: Wesley / Barry / James / Head
SF: Mcgrady / Barry
PF: (Swift, Marshall, etc) / Howard
C: Yao / Deke

We obviously still have too many similar guards, but we'd be okay short term. Sura won't get as many minutes, which is a good thing considering he is always beat up. Hopefully we could swing a deal involving any of James, Wesley, Spoon, and Baker later in the season to get a good, athletic swingman.

[jopatmc]

He's too small to do anything defensively besides play the passing lanes and pick up full court, forcing the PG to have to pick up the dribble and pass in the backcourt or at least burn some of the 24 second clock up.

[fa7999]

Yao verified this to Yang Yi and they are talking about this on Chinese TV. ;)

[forchette49]

How much $$$ is the LLE and usual length of contracts? Who was the last LLE player for the Rockets? Wasn't the MLE split last season between Sura/Ward?

[Furious Jam]

And yeah, second, since when has Damon been a pure point? He's a solid distributor, but he loves to score. He's a shooter, he likes to shoot the floaters and midrange J's. I think he's as much a scorer/shooter as Cassell..

Damon is a classic PG. He's the kind of player who looks to set everyone else up first, but who can also create his own shot if the play breaks down. You'd like him to be bigger and/or to be a better outside shooter, but there's no doubt that he's a pure point.

Whenever Damon has shot the ball a lot, it's always been because his team's talent level has been low. Why bother passing to guys who can shoot?

Sam, on the other hand, is always looking for his shot. That's okay, because Sam has been a better player and a better scorer than Damon throughout their careers - he deserves more shots. But I don't think it's right to compare the two.

[tiger0330]

Damon Stoudamire with the LLE and Stromile with the MLE. That would be awesome! :)

....Of course the cynic could say we are showing Damon around because we are going to offer him part of the MLE (and perhaps the other part to some other PF like Othella Harrington or Mikki Moore) because our plans for Stromile fell threw. :(
DS will never sign for the LLE. I would expect that his discussions with CD were for the MLE. The MLE would be > than a 50% pay cut for DS and he still has some game left, he lit up NO for 54 pts last season, you don't pay a guy like that the LLE.

[Jacquescas]

I absolutely am 100% for this move if it is for the LLE or Vetrans exemption. If he signs for part of all of the MLE it doesn't make me too happy because i think at his age and size he isn't worth that much more.

I would like us to trade Wesley and Sura (Sura only because of durabilty issues and i feel James would be better off the bench than Sura) But i think James has better trade value.

[Jacquescas]

DS will never sign for the LLE. I would expect that his discussions with CD were for the MLE. The MLE would be > than a 50% pay cut for DS and he still has some game left, he lit up NO for 54 pts last season, you don't pay a guy like that the LLE.

he is also 32 years old and hasn't won anything since that rookie of the year award. This is his best shot to not only be on a winning team, but a contributer and starter on a winning team. He isn't strapped for cash, and i'm sure he can find a good weed hookup here.

[white lightning]

I'm not sure why the Rockets would need both Damon and MJames. Damon is very quick, can really push the ball on the break, can drive, and is a very streaky shooter. he's in no way a pure point guard. These seem like MJames strengths also. I can see the benefit of having one of them but not both.

[Rockets34Legend]

Man, I wonder whose going to leave the Rockets now with Swift (maybe) and Damon (maybe) coming to town....

[adeelsiddiqui]

I'm not sure why the Rockets would need both Damon and MJames. Damon is very quick, can really push the ball on the break, can drive, and is a very streaky shooter. he's in no way a pure point guard. These seem like MJames strengths also. I can see the benefit of having one of them but not both.
Its becuase Mike james is a bench warmer, and will most probably just get 15-20 minutes, or be traded(hopefully)

[forchette49]

DS will never sign for the LLE. I would expect that his discussions with CD were for the MLE. The MLE would be > than a 50% pay cut for DS and he still has some game left, he lit up NO for 54 pts last season, you don't pay a guy like that the LLE.

If we drafted Head and still end up using all of our FA $ on DA, I'll be pissed... LLE it is!!!

[JuanValdez]

If we do end up signing Mighty Mouse, I wouldn't expect it to happen until a trade of our guards goes down. We wouldn't want to commit to him until we know the logjam is cleared. So, I'm not expecting imminent news.

[cuneo77]

he is also 32 years old and hasn't won anything since that rookie of the year award. This is his best shot to not only be on a winning team, but a contributer and starter on a winning team. He isn't strapped for cash, and i'm sure he can find a good weed hookup here.

i hope he is past his cheech phase,that did cross my mind,that and that chappelle skit,funny but dont want those problems out here

[Sumner]

If you need further verification, you can see Damon for yourself on KPRC coming up in our 6pm sportscast.

[Baqui99]

I'd rather keep Mike James than bring in Stoudamire. At this point in his career, Damon's not much more than a name. Granted, Damon might be a better passer, but Mike James has a better jumper and plays better defense.

[Jack Hammer]

LOL Baqui .. best joke I've seen in a while on here

[RAYRAY]

It seems kind of obvious that if we were to sign stoudemire, that we are going to unload some of our current PG's to get a PF. The question is, who are we going to unload to get a PF, if we do end up with this scenario.

[Jacquescas]

ya not much more than a name that dropped 54 this past year on the Hornets.

[Dubious]

I don't have any idea what the discussions between the Rockets and Damon are about but I do know that if your franchise player says in the paper he wants Swift and Stoudemire you better at least send the jet for them and take them out to dinner. You absolutely want Tracy to feel like he has input and that the team is making moves to win. Remember why he is here and not in Orlando. Besides how do you know if he would take a paycut to play here till you ask him.

[Dave2000]

IMO, this looks like a done deal. They just need to work out the contract and money details. With Damon hopping on, hopefully Stro will make him have no choice but to come to the Rocks. This is too good of a team to pass up.

In reality, if Damon openly said he wanted to join the Rockets, Tmac openly said to the media that he wanted Damon, then the Rockets are giving HIM the royal treatment/tour, its basically a done deal. The only setback I see is if Damon was high like a mofo and asking more money than he is worth.

[PhiSlammaJamma]

Do you guys remember when half the board was drooling over getting stoudamire. That couldn't have been more than a few years ago. I just think you need a 6'4 guy there to make us a champion. I believe James is adequate because he's so dynamic. But I'd like to see us go a little bigger than the rat from Harry Potter.

[tigermission1]

I don't know how it would work, but I would love for the following to happen:

Blazers send: Stoudamire + Derek Anderson

Rockets send: D. Wesley + B Sura + 2nd round pick (or something else)

I have no idea if this is even possible or if it can take place under CBA terms, etc, but I would think that we have had a wonderful summer if we can get both Stoudamire and Anderson while giving up an expiring contract in Wesley and a guy who will be injury-prone from now on (Sura).

We can all dream, can't we? ;)

[Willis25]

I just think you need a 6'4 guy there to make us a champion.

yes... small Point Guards suck
http://www.nba.com/history/images/isiah_finals.jpg

[jopatmc]

yes... small Point Guards suck
http://www.nba.com/history/images/isiah_finals.jpg


Dude, Zeke has like 5 inches on Mouse.

[Willis25]

Dude, Zeke has like 5 inches on Mouse.

its more like 2 inches, and neither are 6'4"

[jopatmc]

its more like 2 inches, and neither are 6'4"

Damon is 5'9" in shoes.

[steddinotayto]

ya not much more than a name that dropped 54 this past year on the Hornets.

you had me up until "54" but then you added in "Hornets" :p

I'd take Stoudamire. He's still a good player. And putting Sura at the 2 spot ain't good but it ain't bad either. If we sign Damon, we'll have him, Mike James, Wesley and Sura (barring any S&T deals). Not the back court players I want fighting over a starting 2 spot, but I guess it will do.

Maybe we can do a S&T giving Portland Wesley and Spoon or Baker for Damon and Derek Anderson. Granted, Anderson is injury prone but that would solve the 2 spot position in a flash.

[pirc1]

Damon is 5'9" in shoes.

When you are under 6', it doesn't matter if you are 5'9 or 5'11. Everyone can post you up.

[rusHour]

the NBA is full of mismatches. everygame there is a mismath to exploit. thats why basketball is team sport. there are 4 other guys on the court that can help damon if needed to...

[rusHour]

in the dallas series....when dallas went small. howard was too quick for yao ming and yao ming was to tall/big for dirk. it then falls in the players hands to find ways around it and who has the most will to win.

[Willis25]

When you are under 6', it doesn't matter if you are 5'9 or 5'11. Everyone can post you up.


in today's open floor, everybody shoots the 3-ball, NBA, NOBODY (and I mean NOBODY) knows how to post up any one

example: Dirk Nowitzki.

[Houston22]

You guys are so wrong about putting sura at the two. Let me ask you this, when did this team turn it around and start winning last year? WHEN WE GOT WESLEY. Thats because we finally had someone who could hit the open shots.

Sure, Sura got healthy and a few other things came together, but the main thing is that we got a shooter, someone to hit 3's and bail out yao and tmac when they got in trouble or double teamed. I don't think most of you realize how important wesley is to this team. You have to have someone who can knock down open jumpers, we don't need anyone to create off the dribble or create their own shots, thats what tmac and yao are for.

Look at all the great teams, you have a 1-2 punch and the rest of the role players either get rebounds, play defense or knock down open jumpers.


Exactly!

[declan32001]

from forchette49: 1. This is tell-tale sign of a SNT. If not with the Blazers along with SAR, then at the All-Star Break with expiring contracts. What would we have like 9, 10 guards on the active roster?!? MLE remains intact for a PF?

It's possible, I guess, but does anyone here have a clue where Portland is trying to go this year? It's hard to see Allen going into rebuilding mode, or anyone being enthused about next year's FA's. What do we have to offer them except James and expiring contracts even if we did make a run at landing DS, and SAR in a S&T?

There are some inept franchises floating around, but I don't view Portland that way and everything I've read about them this offseason has made me scratch my head.

[Baqui99]

ya not much more than a name that dropped 54 this past year on the Hornets.

You realize the irony in that statement right? The same Hornets team that didn't look much different than a summer league roster? I could have dropped at least 30 on them myself. Hell, they had Nachbar starting the 2nd half of the season!

[Mav-Hater]

reggietodd. You guys are so wrong about putting sura at the two. Let me ask you this, when did this team turn it around and start winning last year? WHEN WE GOT WESLEY. Thats because we finally had someone who could hit the open shots.
This is not entirely accurate. Actually we started improving long before we got Wesley while we still had JJ. It was the day they inserted Sura in the starting lineup at point guard and we had already won 5 or 6 straight at the point we traded for Wesley. When we got Wesley, he shot around 20% from the floor for the first two weeks after the deal. We continued to win because of Tracy's stellar play during that period but we were in the middle of the roll when we got Wesley.

[Baqui99]

Basically, when it comes down to it, we need to quit *****ing around with guards, and get ourselves a damn PF. We already drafted that bum, Luther Head, to go along with Wesley, Sura, James, and Jon Barry.

[LongTimeFan]

You realize the irony in that statement right? The same Hornets team that didn't look much different than a summer league roster? I could have dropped at least 30 on them myself. Hell, they had Nachbar starting the 2nd half of the season!

Is that why Tracy McGrady, one of the best players in the NBA, didn't do it when they played these "scrubs"?

:rolleyes:

[Baqui99]

Is that why Tracy McGrady, one of the best players in the NBA, didn't do it when they played these "scrubs"?

:rolleyes:

Oh, I see your point. In that case, Stoudamire must be better than TMac. Eddie House had a few 50 point games too, not to mention Wille Green.

[tmac]

I don't think Stoudamire's height should be an issue. Wesley at 2--that's a height problem. But it's not like Nash, Terry, or Parker can post up the way Gary Payton used to. Maybe it would be a problem with Billups--but that would mean we were in the Finals.

[LongTimeFan]

Oh, I see your point. In that case, Stoudamire must be better than TMac. Eddie House had a few 50 point games too, not to mention Wille Green.

And your point was? That because he did it versus a sub-par team it doesn't mean anything? Damon would be an upgrade over everyone in our backcourt, James included.

In fact I'm with adeel on James -- James thinks too highly of himself from an offensive standpoint. A lot of times he was out of control in the playoffs. To me it seemed like any time he had a good game, it was a fluke. Mike James waived off Tmac when McGrady was hot and it was the last shot of the half. That should be enough to run him out of town. James has also gone on record to say he's opting out after this year -- Hopefully we'll package him in a S&T for a PF or athletic swingman.

[dharocks]

You realize the irony in that statement right? The same Hornets team that didn't look much different than a summer league roster? I could have dropped at least 30 on them myself. Hell, they had Nachbar starting the 2nd half of the season!

I think it's probably a valid argument to make when you consider that a lot of people were saying we should bring in Dan Dickau.

[Baqui99]

And your point was? That because he did it versus a sub-par team it doesn't mean anything? Damon would be an upgrade over everyone in our backcourt, James included.

In fact I'm with adeel on James -- James thinks too highly of himself from an offensive standpoint. A lot of times he was out of control in the playoffs. To me it seemed like any time he had a good game, it was a fluke. Mike James waived off Tmac when McGrady was hot and it was the last shot of the half. That should be enough to run him out of town. James has also gone on record to say he's opting out after this year -- Hopefully we'll package him in a S&T for a PF or athletic swingman.

Last year, I became a huge Mike James fan. Hopefully this year, if learns to play within himself, he could fit in for the long term. I remember him ripping Devin Harris repeatedly during the playoffs. Not to mention, this guy has the balls to take and make the big 3 pointers.

[LongTimeFan]

Last year, I became a huge Mike James fan. Hopefully this year, if learns to play within himself, he could fit in for the long term. I remember him ripping Devin Harris repeatedly during the playoffs. Not to mention, this guy has the balls to take and make the big 3 pointers.

Well it's a good thing we didn't need too many big 3 pointers with his 26% playoff average. If you want a guy who will take and make the big shots, then I don't know why you're not on the Mighty Mouse bandwagon -- he's been doing it his whole career.

Mike James has become, to the Rockets, a one year rental (opting out at end of season) that we're hoping can learn to defer to our superstar? I'd rather have an established PG whose more committed to winning than how much he's making after every game. DS for 2-3 years for the LLE would be an absolute steal, and makes James/Wesley expendable to be packaged together for a three.

[GladiatoRowdy]

Last year, I became a huge Mike James fan. Hopefully this year, if learns to play within himself, he could fit in for the long term. I remember him ripping Devin Harris repeatedly during the playoffs. Not to mention, this guy has the balls to take and make the big 3 pointers.

Unfortunately, he also has the balls to wave off TMac after McGrady had just hit two three balls in a row and seemed to be feeling it.

Not saying I don't like James, just questioning his BBIQ.

[DaDakota]

I am not thrilled with Mighty mouse, but whatever.

DD

[jcmoon]

mighty mouse is coo with me

[steddinotayto]

cedric ceballos and tony delk each have scored 50 on an opponent. "every dog has its day"

[Jacquescas]

I love mike James off the bench but i'm not so hot for him as a starter. He'd be a good scoring guard off the bench.

[dmenacela]

I don't know if Damon is a good fit for the Rockets. Someone mentioned that he likes to score, I remember mighty mouse scored alot for the Raptors. We need a true point guard, think pass first then shoot. Is Damon the answer? Maybe the Rockets need to be more patient.

I like getting Swift first, we already have 5 guards. Come on CD!!!! :mad:

[Jacquescas]

OF the 3 points guards i think we have a chance of getting. Jason williams (bulls) jason williams (grizzlies) damon stoudamire .... i like the williams from bulls best because he could probably be had for the LLE. If he recovers, and with modern medicine and sports medicine getting better and better its easier to recover from these type of injuries.

I dont care what anyone else says i also like white chocolate. he would give us that toughness that sura brings, allowing sura to be traded more easliy. He doesn't turn the ball over, and he defense isn 't good, but its not as bad as stoudamire. he is a better passer and is a threat from beyond the arc. He would also only be had in a trade and would be around 25 million over 3 years.

Stoudamire has all the shooting and passing ablility but he is the oldest and the worst at defense. but could be the most affordable.

[smoothie]

damon is an upgrade over sura no matter how you look at it. if we are saving the MLE for a PF, can those who are opposed to damon tell me a better PG available in a S&T for less then MLE?


my guess is that we will end up doing a S&T for him. nash said during the draft that they will be looking to add vets to the team who can bring work ethic and leadership. sura, wesley, spoon would work cap wise for damon (signed for $5M) and DA.

portland:
pryz-ratliff
randolf-spoon
miles-outlaw
wesley-sura
telfair-jack


us:
yao-deke-baker
Jho-baxter :cool:
tmac-DA
JB-head-ward
damon-james-moochie

we would still need a trade for a SG. i think after we sign damon the pressure on stro to sign here will increse.

[hagler]

THIS JUST IN


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July 18, 2005, 6:56PM

Swift agrees to terms with Rockets
By JONATHAN FEIGEN
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle

Forward Stromile Swift, the only player the Rockets have targeted in free agency, agreed to terms with the Rockets on Monday evening, Swift's agent, Andy Miller, said.

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Swift spent almost two weeks since visiting the Rockets considering his options, including a strong push by the New Jersey Nets, but Miller said Swift, 6-10, decided the chance to play with Tracy McGrady and Yao Ming inspired him to take the Rockets' offer.

The Rockets, who are over the salary cap, could offer only the midlevel exception, expected to be worth between $28 million and $32 million over five years. He likely could have received greater offers, particularly in a sign-and-trade deal, but decided to end his free agency.

Swift, 25, has averaged nine points and five rebounds in five NBA seasons.

"He has decided to become a Houston Rocket," Miller said. "He's absolutely excited about playing with Tracy McGrady and Yao Ming. The Houston organization has been very consistent and adamant about getting him."

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[Jacquescas]

Swift taking the MLE has got to put pressure on Stoudamire to take the LLE. I know we still have a glut of guards but that will be worked out before the playoffs start.

[GATER]

DS will never sign for the LLE. I would expect that his discussions with CD were for the MLE. The MLE would be > than a 50% pay cut for DS and he still has some game left, he lit up NO for 54 pts last season, you don't pay a guy like that the LLE.

Abdur-Rahim to NJ for a $4.9mTE. (No one coming off a max contract takes a huge pay cut, right)?

Swift to Houston for an MLE. (Swift will never take an MLE...He's worth a lot more than that, right)?

You're not doing well with your predictions lately....better not push too hard on the "Stoudamire will never sign for the LLE" thing... :D ;)

[LongTimeFan]

Abdur-Rahim to NJ for a $4.9mTE. (No one coming off a max contract takes a huge pay cut, right)?

Swift to Houston for an MLE. (Swift will never take an MLE...He's worth a lot more than that, right)?

You're not doing well with your predictions lately....better not push too hard on the "Stoudamire will never sign for the LLE" thing... :D ;)


No, No, No.. by all means, push it :cool:

[Pat]

THIS JUST IN



Well that solves a lot of problems.

[RocksMillenium]

OF the 3 points guards i think we have a chance of getting. Jason williams (bulls) jason williams (grizzlies) damon stoudamire .... i like the williams from bulls best because he could probably be had for the LLE. If he recovers, and with modern medicine and sports medicine getting better and better its easier to recover from these type of injuries.

I dont care what anyone else says i also like white chocolate. he would give us that toughness that sura brings, allowing sura to be traded more easliy. He doesn't turn the ball over, and he defense isn 't good, but its not as bad as stoudamire. he is a better passer and is a threat from beyond the arc. He would also only be had in a trade and would be around 25 million over 3 years.

Stoudamire has all the shooting and passing ablility but he is the oldest and the worst at defense. but could be the most affordable.

He's the oldest but he's only like 30 or 31. Both Williams are horrendous at defense.

[tigermission1]

I think now that Swift has landed, the Rockets will have a lot less pressure on them and can focus a lot more on the backcourt situation.

I predict a major move by the Rockets in a SnT from one of the teams that know they are losing their players and want to get something in return instead. I am talking an Antonio Daniels type of player.

Great job Rocks management, I guess they knew what they were talking about when they said players would come play here for less.

If anything, now the Rockets are in a position of power to tell players like Stoudamire to take the LLE or less money if he wanted to "win". Even a player like AD would not mind coming here since he knows he would be starting and playing to win it all on a team of great talent.

Sky is the limit guys, and I have a feeling Swift won't even be the best moment of this long summer! :cool:

[Relativist]

I would be thrilled if Stoudamire signed for the LLE, but if not, I'd be up for offering Portland two of our guards (say, Wesley and James) for Stoudamire (at $3 mil.) and Patterson.

In terms of talent, I think it's very fair - you guys may argue that we lose in terms of talent, but I try to be conservative when coming up with deals, to counterbalance the natural tendency to be biased in our favor.

We could have a backcourt rotation of:

T-Mac
Stoudamire
Patterson
Sura
Barry
Head

with minutes like this:

Stoudamire(28), Sura (12), Head (8)
Patterson (16), Barry (20), Sura (12)
T-Mac (36), Patterson (12)

[Pat]

I guess I see things a little differently. I would be happy to get Stoudamire, but I don't see him as our starter. I do however see him squarly in the rotation.

It seems to me that we did pretty well with a fleet of tweeners. Sura, Wesley, James, Barry and even TMac all had ball handling duties. None of them are pure position players. I don't have any problem adding one more to the mix.

First off, Sura and Wesley need to play less minutes. I really like both, but they are a year older and a year more injury prone.

Second, it seems to me that we had a hard time defending super small point guards. I would like to have one of our own to counter with. It is also a good toll to change the pace up. But again, I don't see Mighty Mouse getting 30 minutes.

Also signing for the LLE is an issue, now that we have used the MLE on Swift. I don't see a compelling reason for a trade, but adding Stoudamire would certainly make it easier to do so if desired.

[Relativist]

What's the LLE worth these days anyway? Is it any different from the veteran's minimum? I should know this, but I'm too excited to go look it up. :p

[RocksMillenium]

I guess I see things a little differently. I would be happy to get Stoudamire, but I don't see him as our starter. I do however see him squarly in the rotation.

It seems to me that we did pretty well with a fleet of tweeners. Sura, Wesley, James, Barry and even TMac all had ball handling duties. None of them are pure position players. I don't have any problem adding one more to the mix.

First off, Sura and Wesley need to play less minutes. I really like both, but they are a year older and a year more injury prone.

Second, it seems to me that we had a hard time defending super small point guards. I would like to have one of our own to counter with. It is also a good toll to change the pace up. But again, I don't see Mighty Mouse getting 30 minutes.

Also signing for the LLE is an issue, now that we have used the MLE on Swift. I don't see a compelling reason for a trade, but adding Stoudamire would certainly make it easier to do so if desired.

If we get him Stoudamire better start and play 30 minutes. Putting up 15 and 8 or 9 assists per game makes this team better. I'm not worried about defense, look at players like Tony Parker and Steve Nash and Sam Cassell and other PGs. As long as you have help defense they'll be fine.

[Pat]

Yes but,... you have got to play D to get minutes on this team.

[yellaman]

i see a sign and trade with portland coming.....they want expiring contracts, we have them, but we may have to take on one of their bad contracts like theo ratliff.

[JayZ750]

I just can't get past Damon's height. And the fact that he really isn't that great of a shooter. His 3 pointers aren't horrible, but remember when Steve was stuggling to shoot 40% from the field? It just felt like he was constantly throwing up bricks. Would hate to see the same.

[RocksMillenium]

I think I put down that Stoudamire was putting up 15-8, he's putting up 15-6. He was putting up 15 to 17 and 8 to 9 assists with Portland and Toronto early on. I really believe he could put up 8 to 9 assists per game on the Rockets next year with this loaded squad and good team chemistry.

[Aruba77]

Mighty Mouse would be the perfect end to a fantastic off-season. He definately still has game. If we get him, and resign Motumbo and Barry, we have a real shot at winning the whole damn thing next year.

[solid]

I just have this feeling that the addition of D.S. may be the next announcement, probably a s/t involving Wesley.

[drpepper]

There's a great chance M. Mouse signs here now that Swift is on board.

Plus, He spends his summers here so it's practically home.

[Bassfly]

Hopefully any sign and trade scenarios including Stoudamire also involve Reuban Patterson. He seems set on not playing for Portland next year. Hell even Darius Miles might be available even though we won't be able to offer enough for him.

[Relativist]

Hopefully any sign and trade scenarios including Stoudamire also involve Reuban Patterson. He seems set on not playing for Portland next year. Hell even Darius Miles might be available even though we won't be able to offer enough for him.

I'm sure both Miles and Patterson are available, Miles perhaps moreso.

I like the idea of getting Patterson. I proposed a Stoudamire/Patterson trade earlier.

[apostolic3]

I think now that Swift has landed, the Rockets will have a lot less pressure on them and can focus a lot more on the backcourt situation.

I predict a major move by the Rockets in a SnT from one of the teams that know they are losing their players and want to get something in return instead. I am talking an Antonio Daniels type of player.

Great job Rocks management, I guess they knew what they were talking about when they said players would come play here for less.

If anything, now the Rockets are in a position of power to tell players like Stoudamire to take the LLE or less money if he wanted to "win". Even a player like AD would not mind coming here since he knows he would be starting and playing to win it all on a team of great talent.

Sky is the limit guys, and I have a feeling Swift won't even be the best moment of this long summer! :cool:
I hope you are right. Major props to management if that turns out to be true.

[Deuce]

I just have this feeling that the addition of D.S. may be the next announcement, probably a s/t involving Wesley.

Ya know, a few months ago I would have thought the same thing. But Martell Webster is really playing well in the Summer League and they already have Derek Anderson. Even for a 1 year rental I am not sure the Blazers want to take on Wesley's salary when they really dont have to. I dont think they do any S&Ts unless they can subtract long term salary. Not to mention, the Blazers are VERY much in the hunt for Antonio Daniels, someone who also can play the 2.

I think the chances of DS signing with Houston for the LLE/Veteran's Exception are much greater. Especially with him living in Houston, already expressing interest to play here and with Yao/Tmac and now Swift.

[solid]

I think the chances of DS signing with Houston for the LLE/Veteran's Exception are much greater. Especially with him living in Houston, already expressing interest to play here and with Yao/Tmac and now Swift.
Even better!

[Deuce]

I'm sure both Miles and Patterson are available, Miles perhaps moreso.

I like the idea of getting Patterson. I proposed a Stoudamire/Patterson trade earlier.

The Blazers would be interested in that deal because it reduces their long term salary in Patterson. Patterson is making around 7M I think. If you sign Stoudamire to a 3 to 4M/yr deal then you have to move out 10M in contracts. That would be Spoon/Wesley in that case.

With that said though, I would rather we sign DS with the LLE if possible and then look around for a swingman with our expiring deals. Maybe Patterson, maybe someone else that is a better fit.

[BullRider]

they shoudl take stoudamire if he comes on the low end. he is a good shooter and can run point!

[forchette49]

The Blazers would be interested in that deal because it reduces their long term salary in Patterson. Patterson is making around 7M I think. If you sign Stoudamire to a 3 to 4M/yr deal then you have to move out 10M in contracts. That would be Spoon/Wesley in that case.

With that said though, I would rather we sign DS with the LLE if possible and then look around for a swingman with our expiring deals. Maybe Patterson, maybe someone else that is a better fit.

What about Finley with the LLE instead of DS?!? Just a thought...

[jopatmc]

I want Miles to flip flop with TMac at the 2/3. Let Miles D up on the 2 guard and let him play the 3 on offense. Talk about Athletic! How would you like to see a break with Stoudamire running the middle with Miles and TMac on the wings, TMac breaks off for the 3, and Swift is running the opposite side for the slam-jam-alleyoop-putback, whatever. And then here comes a huge, white semi right down broadway to wipe up.

[Deuce]

What about Finley with the LLE instead of DS?!? Just a thought...

Good thought. The problem is no one knows WHEN these players will be cut. Those teams have until October 1st to decide. So the Rockets might not want to wait that long just for a 'chance' at Finley if they feel DS is the right man for them right now.

[blabla]

I prefer to get Mouse/DA instead of Mouse/Patterson. The guy's out-of-court problem makes me a little uneasy.

[barbourdg]

Why would damon sign for the LLE. He is coming off a pretty good year, so why would he even settle for the full MLE?

I just don't see this happening, unless he can force a S&T. He may sign somewhere for the MLE, but not the LLE.

:eek:

[tiger0330]

Abdur-Rahim to NJ for a $4.9mTE. (No one coming off a max contract takes a huge pay cut, right)?

Swift to Houston for an MLE. (Swift will never take an MLE...He's worth a lot more than that, right)?

You're not doing well with your predictions lately....better not push too hard on the "Stoudamire will never sign for the LLE" thing... :D ;)
DS will never sign for the LLE, hope lightening strikes twice in the same place. CD is a god if he signs DS for the LLE on top of signing SS for the MLE. DS, SS, T-Mac and Yao on the same team, thats huge.

[Desert Scar]

I'd be looking at a S&T with Wesley probably (plus NY 2nd?). Then Sura starts at the 2. Sura has been an SG most of his career, he had to play more 1 for us until James arrived because our other PGs were flat awefull.

For those crying about out shooting, I don't see much a difference. DS/BS shoot just about as well as BS/DW from the outside. Also, it was Wesley's shooting and scoring efficiency in the playoffs (35%) which went south more than James, Sura, or Barry. Also, with DS and Sura on the perimeter, we are much better off the dribble. I think it makes our offense much more potent essentially having DS in there for DW.

PGs: DS, MJ, Head
SGs: BS, JB, Head

That is so much better than anything we had last year. Also, Mike James is not redundant with DS. MJ is the much more physical player and better defender. DS is a much more offensively gifted player however, and is a dead-eye when left open (he rarely had this luxury of a wide open shot he would get with us). James is an OK but streakier shooter, but I don't think near the natural scorer and shooter DS is. I think they would make a fine PG tandem and compliment one another well.

Also, I'd still look for another SG/SF for the LLE, but I'd be open to go into the season with BS/JB/LH. We could always make another move before the deadline if JB or BS are breaking down, or Head just doesn't prove ready for the big stage.

At first I thought the only S&T would have to be Wesley. This may not be accurate. It could be for James or Sura for up to about 4.1 mil starting--probably get us in the ballpark for DS. I'd consider the following:

DS for DW + NY 2nd
DS for MJ (strait up)
DS for BS (strait up)
(all these can occure with DS signed at about 4.1-4.3 mil starting, which seems about right)

I think Portland would want DW or BS because they don't need another strict PG with Telfair, Jack and NVE (one more year). I'd actually have to think hard if they insisted on Sura. We would definetly have to add another big 2 if we did this. I like James, but I'd probably let him go for DS with the hope Head fills his role (or Sura plays more 1 minutes).

The best deal for us, and reasonable one for Portland too, is DW plus a pick (likely NY 2nd or loose future 1st of our choosing). DW can give them a servicable year while Webster learns the ropes, and they get a mid pick for their trouble. Pretty reasonable deal all the way around.

[Jacquescas]

i think the only way we get a sign and trade to work with portland is if we take one of their long term contracts of players they can eiter replace or dont fit in the rotation. Derek Anderson, Ruben Patterson, Theo Ratliff or Darius Miles. I think Anderson and Patterson are more likely to be in a deal with houston because they have alot less value.

[Desert Scar]

i think the only way we get a sign and trade to work with portland is if we take one of their long term contracts of players they can eiter replace or dont fit in the rotation. Derek Anderson, Ruben Patterson, Theo Ratliff or Darius Miles. I think Anderson and Patterson are more likely to be in a deal with houston because they have alot less value.

We don't need to do that, and I want no part of DA or Ruben.

If Portland won't deal DS for BS, MJ or DW (plus NY 2nd) it isn't worth considering. Portland is going to lose DS for nothing if they don't do this. James and Sura are decent players with good value contracts. DW is a servicable player with an expiring contract--and they get a mid pick.

If Portland doesn't want to play than DS can take the LLE (player option on year 2). We can give him a 20% raise next year if he opts out or even bigger with part of next years MLE, or major raise after 2 years. Those are the choices. DS would be nice to have, but no so nice over what we have to add a big long term bad contract.

[Jacquescas]

if we do swing DS for lets say the LLE cause i see portland as trying to cut contracts not add more. They have enough guards.

I think we will sign him outright for the LLE if so ours starting 2 is still wesley, and i think a wesley stoudamire backcourt is too small. So what do we do at the 2? i could see sprewell coming for the vets min to play with van gundy again. I am in no way in support of spree, but if we also get stoudamire and swift as well it isn't that huge.

[smoothie]

[QUOTE=Jacquescas]if we do swing DS for lets say the LLE cause i see portland as trying to cut contracts not add more. They have enough guards.
QUOTE]


tell me who thier guards are. they want to cut some contracts, but Nash also said they want to bring in vets who can add leadership and work ethic. they have two young PG's and want to get rid of thier only SG (DA). sura, wesley, and spoon would fit very well in portland.

pryz-ratliff
randolf-spoon
miles-webster
wesley-sura
telfair-jack

if we sign DS to $5M and take DA this trade works capwise and saves the LLe for (gulp) spree?

yao-deke-baker
stro!-Jho-baxter
tmac-DA
spree-JB-head
DS-james-moochie-ward

dare i say...finals? this team will give the spurs a run for thier money.

[Desert Scar]

Jacq, it looks to me Portland needs an SG:

PG they are OK: Telfair, Jack, NVE
SG they have a rook high schooler who might be more of an SF penciled in as starter (Webster), and a disgruntled SG whose shooting has gone way south the last 2 years (Anderson), and a journeyman (generous to call him that), Frahm.

Looks to me they either play NVE out of place again, play a shooting challenged SF out of place, try a guy right out of high school, or the enigma Anderson.

I think Sura or Wesley would add a LOT of stability and vet leadership to that team without committing big time money.

I think it makes a lot of sense for them, but seeing how they are acting with the SAR thing who knows.

[TigerBait]

I know they famed him as thier "T-Mac stopper" but would portland be willing to part with Travis Outlaw? 6-9 and long, plays good defense supposedly on everyone but T-Mac. Only thing is that he is young and still raw and might not be able to contribute immediately as a back-up to T-Mac. (although we wouldnt really need much from him but to play good defense and hustle for mabye 10 mins a game) Doesn't seem likely but just a thought.

[BigM]

anything after the swift signing is icing on the cake but what are the chances of getting stoudamire and miles in a sign and trade? is portland really that interested in moving miles?

i've been a huge critic of miles but under jvg playing along t-mac and stromile, that could be nasty defensively. stoudamire playing point would immediately increase our playmaking and outside shooting.

damon has made his money and unless he's blown away by another offer i can see him signing for the LLE in basically his second home and an opportunity to get a ring. that said, i don't know how realistic it is to pick up ANOTHER guard without trading one of our contracts. hopefully cd/jvg can push hard for miles.

[Kim]

See sig.

[EddieWasSnubbed]

If Damon wants to play here as bad as he intially indicated, then what is the holdup? CD should be able to get it done by tomorrow...;)

[white lightning]

No way Portland parts with Outlaw. He is the future and will be a great player. Also, NVE is not coming back to the Blazers, so leave him off the depth charts. Portland has their players at PG,SF,PF,and C. They need SGs. They have a few young guys they will groom as SGs - but could use a vet for the next year or two. Sounds like Wesley would be a good fit, but their backcourt would be tiny with Telfair and Wesley.

[Jacquescas]

No way travis outlaw goes anywhere he is one of their younger players they are trying to build around. Looking over portlands roster, and the players they played last year and added this year. Its obvious Stoudamire is on the way out. Derek Anderson has been disgruntled for years and isn't good for that teams chemistry, 2 years 18.9 million. Rubben Patterson ties them to that ugly Jailblazers past and has 2 years 13.5 million on his contract. Theo Ratliff is 32 years old and has 3 years 35 million left on his deal. With his age and contract he doesn't fit in with portlands youth project. Finally Darius Miles has 5 years 42 million left on his deal. He hasn't worked out but chances are he wont just be given away at least not until closer to the trade deadline but thats another topic.

I think the fact that they lost Shareef for nothing today is going to push portland to make a deal for DS.

I have to admit i'm not happy with DW at the 2. his size is an issue for me, espeically if we add DS.

[smoothie]

If Damon wants to play here as bad as he intially indicated, then what is the holdup? CD should be able to get it done by tomorrow...;)


HA! what a week this would be. what about that press conference this weekend? we could be introducing stro and damon!

[moonnumack]

I think we should only acquire Stoudamire for LLE. No S&T, especially if it means taking on one of Portland's bad contract. Why do we need to do that for underachieveing players like Anderson, Miles, or Patterson? I would have been excited to get DA a few years ago, but he has shown very little in the last 2 years and is on the wrong side of 30 (I believe). Man, I would really hate to have to cheer for Miles or Patterson. Players that act like they're better than they really are. The last thing I want is the self-proclaimed "Kobe Stopper" whining about his lack of a major role on our team from prison or the 6'9" toothpick banging his fists into his head after his one fastbreak dunk per game. Stoudamire would be a nice pickup as a backup PG coming in to give a spark off the bench, but I'd prefer to hold onto the expiring contracts either for ourselves next off-season or when their are more desperate teams looking for cap space mid-season.

[micah1j]

How about Ward + 2nd rounder for Damon Stoudamire. We could get him at contract starting at 1.87 X 1.25% + 100,000 = $2,437,500. That is half the MLE. He would get 10.5% increases. That would be 8.08M on a 3 year deal or 11.29M on a 4 year deal.

[apostolic3]

How about Ward + 2nd rounder for Damon Stoudamire. We could get him at contract starting at 1.87 X 1.25% + 100,000 = $2,437,500. That is half the MLE. He would get 10.5% increases. That would be 8.08M on a 3 year deal or 11.29M on a 4 year deal.
Why would the Blazers do this? They don't want Ward any more than we do.

[micah1j]

Why would the Blazers do this? They don't want Ward any more than we do.
He only has 1 year left and it is a small contract. For the second rounder obviously.

I still prefer AD. James + Ward for AD. AD has only received 1 5-year offer. Spurs & Lakers have offered 3-year deals.

[AroundTheWorld]

I would have been excited to get DA a few years ago, but he has shown very little in the last 2 years and is on the wrong side of 30 (I believe).

I think this is both not correct. He is 31 and should have at least 3 or 4 good years left in him, maybe more. The last two years, despite playing with other good point guards on the roster (van Exel, up-and-coming Telfair), he put up some of the best stats since he came to Portland. Good 3-point shooter, great ft shooter and decent ast/to ratio. I'd still want him if he comes for little money.

[Chilly_Pete]

15.8 PPG and 5.7 APG sound pretty productive to me. Granted he was on a bad team last year, but he would be the best offensive guard in our backcourt if we were to get him.

[topfive]

Since we'll hopefully have more leads late in the 4th quarter this year, it would be great to have a PG like Mouse in the game -- 3-1 A/TO ratio, great FT shooter (over 90% -- 4th in the league last year).

[aries323]

Like Stromile, I really think that Miles has a chance to turn things around. He is a good Defensive player, but he cant shoot worth a crap.

DM is obviously a great choice, a vet, a good shooter, quick, can play with the Nash and Terry`s.

DA is intriguing, he used to be able to handle the rock and shoot, suspect D but I know he had a little bit of an offensive game, now if he can contribute with his handling skills and his height, he might be a good fit.

Lets get Damon and man we`re sitting pretty starting the season next year.

Yao / Deke / Badiane / Baker
SS / JH / Baxter / Baker / Weatherspoon
TMac / Sura / Barry / Glover
Wesley / Sura / Barry / Head / Glover
(DS) / James / Moochie / Ward / Head

Dang, we have A LOT of 1-2, somethings gotta give, its really heavy at the bottom.

We need to get rid of

1. Baker
2. Moochie
3. Ward
4. Weatherspoon
5. Sura... or Wesley...

[tslee98]

Good thought. The problem is no one knows WHEN these players will be cut. Those teams have until October 1st to decide. So the Rockets might not want to wait that long just for a 'chance' at Finley if they feel DS is the right man for them right now.

Finley won't join the Rockets. It makes more sense for him to return to Phoenix. He fits well into that style of play.

But in terms of the timing issue, Finley will be cut sooner rather than later. The Mavericks have said as much. And it's a much classier move to cut a player as soon as possible under the one-time amnesty provision in the new CBA rather than wait until October 1st. It would give Finley (or any other player) the best shot at finding the right opportunity with another team if he is let go at the beginning of the free agent signing period while teams are still planning and trying to settle on their rosters. The Mavericks owe it to Finley to do that for him.

[Davidoff]

Finley won't join the Rockets. It makes more sense for him to return to Phoenix. He fits well into that style of play.

But in terms of the timing issue, Finley will be cut sooner rather than later. The Mavericks have said as much. And it's a much classier move to cut a player as soon as possible under the one-time amnesty provision in the new CBA rather than wait until October 1st. It would give Finley (or any other player) the best shot at finding the right opportunity with another team if he is let go at the beginning of the free agent signing period while teams are still planning and trying to settle on their rosters. The Mavericks owe it to Finley to do that for him.

I agree that it's the "nice" thing to do, but also I feel like they dont own him much if they have to cut the man a check with 7 zeros in it and get nothing back other than tax money..

[LFE171]

The Mavericks owe it to Finley to do that for him.

They owe him that, yes, but are they classy enough to do that? HELL NO. Roxgirl was talking bout loyalty between fans and players. But loyalty between management and players is something cuban does not have with his "ponies"

https://webspace.utexas.edu/ahl85/mavs22nz.jpg

Haha I've posted this picture 3 times already, and I don't mind doing it again.

I can't wait for us to play the ponies again. Another dunk, this time on Nowitzki from Swift. :D

[Jacquescas]

now here is a little more thought into the ward for damon trade.

First you work a buyout with Ward, probably wont be that cheap prolly most of the money. Then you add that money, and possibly other cash considerations up to 3 million in the trade to cover the buyout and help cover the cost of the second rounder we are sending.

Maybe then The blazers would be willing to swing the Deal. They dont keep ward who gets bought out with the money we give them, and they get a late second round pick for a player who was leaving and maybe a little extra cash on the side.

[jopatmc]

Like Stromile, I really think that Miles has a chance to turn things around. He is a good Defensive player, but he cant shoot worth a crap.

DM is obviously a great choice, a vet, a good shooter, quick, can play with the Nash and Terry`s.

DA is intriguing, he used to be able to handle the rock and shoot, suspect D but I know he had a little bit of an offensive game, now if he can contribute with his handling skills and his height, he might be a good fit.

Lets get Damon and man we`re sitting pretty starting the season next year.

Yao / Deke / Badiane / Baker
SS / JH / Baxter / Baker / Weatherspoon
TMac / Sura / Barry / Glover
Wesley / Sura / Barry / Head / Glover
(DS) / James / Moochie / Ward / Head

Dang, we have A LOT of 1-2, somethings gotta give, its really heavy at the bottom.

We need to get rid of

1. Baker
2. Moochie
3. Ward
4. Weatherspoon
5. Sura... or Wesley...


Miles is good from midrange from the elbow down to the baseline, probably a lot of where he would play with us on offense. He has good post up ability. Or we can take him outside and let him dive to the bucket for dunks, or the stop and pop 16 footer. I think he can be very effective and has shown the ability to put the ball on the floor in the half court. He is still relatively raw but still has tremendous upside potential even though his off court antics are less than desired.

[DieHard Rocket]

I'd be looking at a S&T with Wesley probably (plus NY 2nd?). Then Sura starts at the 2. Sura has been an SG most of his career, he had to play more 1 for us until James arrived because our other PGs were flat awefull.


No way we will be better with Sura starting at the 2. He's too slow to guard SG's, and too small for most SF's. Once again, the whole point of the Jackson+Boki/Wesley trade was to get a better defender next to Tracy. The best role for Sura on this team is backup PG, with very limited minutes at SG...he's good enough to start, but not durable enough.

I think there is a pretty solid chance of getting Damon at the LLE. He's been paid before, and he seems ready to win now. I think the Rockets are hard to pass up right now. If he did want more money, I think we could spare Mike James and a filler in a sign-and-trade...the only way I see Wesley getting dealt for Stoudamire is if we get a starting SG in return...Portland really doesn't have anyone that can help us too much there, and that includes Derek Anderson (no better than Wesley), and I really don't think we have what it takes to get Miles. I wouldn't mind having Ruben Patterson to backup SF though.

For right now I say we just try to get Damon, then start the season with what we've got and make a deal to upgrade the SG spot later.

[ROXTXIA]

Yao / Deke / Badiane / Baker
SS / JH / Baxter / Baker / Weatherspoon
TMac / Sura / Barry / Glover
Wesley / Sura / Barry / Head / Glover
(DS) / James / Moochie / Ward / Head



1. Damon Stoudamire, Mike James, Luther Head
2. Bob Sura, David Wesley, Jon Barry
3. T-Mac, ???
4. Stromile Swift, Juwan Howard, Weatherspoon
5. Yao, Deke, Baker

Yep, something's gotta give here. It seems clear enough that we're not done, but it's tough to say what will happen; Damon Stoudamire will likely want more money than we can offer outside of a sign-and-trade. And Portland doesn't want to add payroll (go figure, it never bothered them before), so the only way it would behoove them to go the s-&-t route is to dump Darius Miles.

Darius Miles would be a nice addition, I suppose, but his attitude and pay scale might make Les blanch.

Obviously we're targeting Damon and hoping to get him for a discount; will lightning strike twice? If we offer the LLE, has Damon saved up enough money from the Portland days to keep the ganja market going strong in Houston?

Gerald Wallace is the guy we need. Since Charlotte needs to spend some money on some players (you have to pay out a minimum on the salary cap), maybe expiring contracts and a first rounder with Wallace making $5 million to start out. THAT would be a team:

Guards and small forwards:
Tracy McGrady, Damon Stoudamire, Gerald Wallace, Mike James, Bob Sura, Luther Head

Power forwards and centers:
Yao Ming, Stromile Swift, Juwan Howard, Dikembe Mutombo

[Dirk_Diggler]

Mighty Mouse is good ... Just don't see where his skills are all that much better than a full time Mike James

Keep in mind, DS averaged 34.6 min/game whereas James was at 25.6 ... Almost 10 minutes difference

DS MJ

Ast/G 5.7 2.9
STL 1.1 .9
TO 2.0 1.0
FG % 39 43
3PT % 37 40
FT % 92 76
REB 3.8 3.2

James' %-ages are better (With the exception of FT) ... The rest is a wash with more PT for James

Stats are from dougstats.com

[Little O]

Mighty Mouse is good ... Just don't see where his skills are all that much better than a full time Mike James

Keep in mind, DS averaged 34.6 min/game whereas James was at 25.6 ... Almost 10 minutes difference

DS MJ

Ast/G 5.7 2.9
STL 1.1 .9
TO 2.0 1.0
FG % 39 43
3PT % 37 40
FT % 92 76
REB 3.8 3.2

James' %-ages are better (With the exception of FT) ... The rest is a wash with more PT for James

Stats are from dougstats.com

I think the difference is the assists, which are still less even if you prorate it, and better free throw percentage, which doesn't change no matter how much time you play.

I think the attraction with Damon is his superior PG skills.

[New Jack]

Stoudamire is a much better floor leader than James. I can't get over the image of Mcgrady waving off James in the playoffs. It's obvious Mcgrady doesn't trust him to run the offense well in the crucial moments of a game. I'm pretty sure we'll never see Mcgrady waving off Stoudamire.

[zaam]

Mighty Mouse is good ... Just don't see where his skills are all that much better than a full time Mike James. (snip)

I like MJ a lot and I think he has the offense to change a game now and then, but when have you actually seen him run the offense? As a point guard he frustrates the hell out of me. He seems like another short 2 guard to me. Damon has shown the ability to create shots for other people in addition to getting his own. His court vision is waay better than MJ's IMO.

[apostolic3]

Stoudamire is a much better floor leader than James. I can't get over the image of Mcgrady waving off James in the playoffs. It's obvious Mcgrady doesn't trust him to run the offense well in the crucial moments of a game. I'm pretty sure we'll never see Mcgrady waving off Stoudamire.
Exactly. Stoudamire can actually run an offense. James never has and never will, which is why he is ideally suited to be a 6th or 7th man instead of a starter.

[Dirk_Diggler]

OK ... Points duly noted ... But is it worth giving up the $$$ to get DS and the PT he would be taking away from MJ?

[IROC it]

So is the Mouse in the House or what? Update anyone?

[Jack Hammer]

Frankly speaking, YES Dirk. MJ is a shoot-first energizer off the bench, whereas Damon is a distributor as well as a shooter. Damon's assists weren't as high as they were in Toronto, mainly because Portland's low-post weapon, Zach Randolph would shoot only and VERY reluctantly kick back out to him for another opportunity. I like MJ's game and all, but as evidenced in the playoffs, his style of play wore thin on our own players even though he did manage to hit big shots when we sorely needed offense. With Damon, we'd have an immensely more cohesive offense on the floor, which is an absolute necessity to go far in the playoffs.

[Kyrodis]

OK ... Points duly noted ... But is it worth giving up the $$$ to get DS and the PT he would be taking away from MJ?
Depends on how much money. You can't honestly tell me that if Stoudamire decided to sign for the minimum, you wouldn't be happy about it.

Despite the fact that he's older, he's a much better point guard than either Sura or James. Sura is tough and hustles but doesn't really have the skillset to create good shots for his teammates. Furthermore, he's plays injured all the time. James generally looks to create shots for himself first. As much as I like both those guys, players like that are best suited for coming off the bench to provide energy or instant offense.

The point guard's job is to set up the offense and create for your teammates. Damon Stoudamire is better suited for such a role.

[zaam]

(snip)Sura is tough and hustles but doesn't really have the skillset to create good shots for his teammates. Furthermore, he's plays injured all the time. (snip)


Exactly my concern if we sit pat on a PG this offseason. I love Sura's game, but I feel like he's going to break down at some point in the season, and I would not like to see MJ as our starting PG. We have to have someone who can help establish the flow of the game for our entire offense, not just score.

[Zacatecas]

The scary part of all this is putting Stoudomire 5'11" next to Wesley 6'1". A back court that averages 6 feet tall. When you are looking at SG like Kobe who are 6'6" etc. Who goes to guard Kobe? McGrady, then who picks up the SF, Wesley and get the size difference up a notch!

I like either Wesley or Stoudomire on the starting role, but not both starting together for the Rockets.

[leebigez]

If i could get Miles or Patterson to get Damon i would do it. as long as Barry is the backup, the 3pt shot isn't a issue. With Patterson or Miles playing the 2/3 then Barry comes in , you still have a creator when Tracy goes out and still have the kick out 3 guy in Barry. This team needs to get a slasher who can get to the line. The Rox were 25th in ft att, and 22 in ft md. They need guys who can get their own shots when teams aren't doubling mcGrady or Ming. Something SA nor Det does.

[Dubious]

Bobby Sura, damit I love you man, Why'd you have get so old and busted up?
It's like shootin Old Yeller.

[Desert Scar]

No way we will be better with Sura starting at the 2. He's too slow to guard SG's, and too small for most SF's. Once again, the whole point of the Jackson+Boki/Wesley trade was to get a better defender next to Tracy. The best role for Sura on this team is backup PG, with very limited minutes at SG...he's good enough to start, but not durable enough.


Sura matches up better against most SGs than he does against most PGs. Sura also matches up better against bigger SGs than does Wesley. Playing SG is where Sura got his reputation as a good defender, not playing the PGs who are the quickest players in the league. DS is pretty quick--quicker than Sura or Wesley for that matter, and would play the quicker 1s.

I think there is a pretty solid chance of getting Damon at the LLE. ....If he did want more money, I think we could spare Mike James and a filler in a sign-and-trade...the only way I see Wesley getting dealt for Stoudamire is if we get a starting SG in return...Portland really doesn't have anyone that can help us too much there, and that includes Derek Anderson (no better than Wesley), and I really don't think we have what it takes to get Miles. I wouldn't mind having Ruben Patterson to backup SF though. .

I don't think DS would take an LLE. Even if he did, we have a glut of guards then who are under 6'4" (with Barry an honorary member because he can't guard guys his height). I'd rather give Glover a chance at the back-up 3 before trading for Ruben or DA with their contracts and me-1st attitudes. Yeah, Miles is a pipe dream for expiring contracts alone.

Stoudamire is a much better floor leader than James. I can't get over the image of Mcgrady waving off James in the playoffs. It's obvious Mcgrady doesn't trust him to run the offense well in the crucial moments of a game. I'm pretty sure we'll never see Mcgrady waving off Stoudamire.

It was one darned play and James was a big part of the reason we pushed the series to 7. Lots of guys were frustrated as the whole team, including Tmac, had some very poor stretches in game 7.

Frankly speaking, YES Dirk. MJ is a shoot-first energizer off the bench, whereas Damon is a distributor as well as a shooter. Damon's assists weren't as high as they were in Toronto, mainly because Portland's low-post weapon, Zach Randolph would shoot only and VERY reluctantly kick back out to him for another opportunity. I like MJ's game and all, but as evidenced in the playoffs, his style of play wore thin on our own players even though he did manage to hit big shots when we sorely needed offense. With Damon, we'd have an immensely more cohesive offense on the floor, which is an absolute necessity to go far in the playoffs.

I agree Damon is a better PG. DS has been a league starter for 10 years, James has never been more than a weak starter or very solid back-up.

Exactly. Stoudamire can actually run an offense. James never has and never will, which is why he is ideally suited to be a 6th or 7th man instead of a starter.

I don't think anyone is suggesting James should start. But James was the back-up on the Pistons championship team, and they missed him this year (Arroyo could not give them the same defense, shooting or intensity).

James becomes of very valuable back-up when you need defensive and physicality (say Stoudamire is having trouble with a physical 2), or when the 2nd unit with guys like Deke and whoever is our back-up 3 needs someone to score.

The scary part of all this is putting Stoudomire 5'11" next to Wesley 6'1". A

I like either Wesley or Stoudomire on the starting role, but not both starting together for the Rockets.

Yes, they would be too small. Sura next to DS makes a lot more sense. Sura for most of his career has been an SG, we had no choice but to play him as our PG because until James arrived none of our PGs deserved to be in the NBA.

Also, if DS and BS are struggling defensively, James and Head are very athletic alternatives.

Looking at this group (secondary roles):
PG: DS, MJ (Head)
SG: BS, DW, JB, Head, (Glover)
SF: Tmac, Glover, (Sura)

I could well live with this going into this season. Could always make a move at the trade deadline with expiring contracts if needed (say Head is not ready for any of the big stage, Sura breaks down), but I think they have a much better balance of quickness, size and shooting than what we had last year. I still think the DW(plus pick)-Stoud deal makes a lot of sense, both in terms of getting DS a market contract (start at a little over 4 mil) and freeing up a roster spot for us, and for Portland they get a solid vet 2 with an expiring contract plus a middle pick. Also, when you take Wesley out from above (more minutes split among JB, Head and Glover at SG) I don't think it much impacts the overall production or flexibility.

DW did well for us most of last year, but I see DW as the odd man out in our move to get more athletic, quicker, and bigger.I certainly don't mind if we keep him though.

[Pipe]

snip
I agree with almost all of your analysis but am concerned about the backup 3. Is Glover/Bowen an effective combination? What are our alternatives with our unused LLE (assuming we make a DW and pick for DS trade)?

[RocksMillenium]

Mighty Mouse is good ... Just don't see where his skills are all that much better than a full time Mike James

Keep in mind, DS averaged 34.6 min/game whereas James was at 25.6 ... Almost 10 minutes difference

DS MJ

Ast/G 5.7 2.9
STL 1.1 .9
TO 2.0 1.0
FG % 39 43
3PT % 37 40
FT % 92 76
REB 3.8 3.2

James' %-ages are better (With the exception of FT) ... The rest is a wash with more PT for James

Stats are from dougstats.com

I like Mike James, but he isn't in the same ball park as Damon Stoudamire when it comes to being a PG and running an offense.

[Milos]

I agree with almost all of your analysis but am concerned about the backup 3. Is Glover/Bowen an effective combination? What are our alternatives with our unused LLE (assuming we make a DW and pick for DS trade)?

Didn't I hear someone say Greg Buckner has been talking with us?

He'd be a decent bargain-basement pickup to provide tough D and smarts behind McGrady, and he could also slide over to guard big Shooting Guards that Wesley can't handle.

Bigs - Yao, Swift, JHo, Deke, Padgett

Wings - Tmac, Wesley, Barry, Buckner

Points - Damon, Sura, James, Head

Seems like every conceivable matchup is covered with this many quality, versatile pieces to fit in on the court around Yao and Tmac.

I mean honestly, if Damon comes as well (even if it costs Sura/Wesley/James), do we not become one of the 2 or 3 deepest teams in the league? The only two I can think of that have a 10-deep rotation that can compare with ours are Dallas and Memphis. And neither of those teams are built around TWO young, established Superstars like Tmac and Yao.

I think, if this summer works out as it looks like it will, we have officially rejoined the ranks of the elite, year-in-year-out franchises...a place we have not been since the days of Hakeem, Clyde and Charles. For the first time in years, I honestly feel our team takes a back seat to no one and will legitimately contend for a Title next year.

Thank you Houston Rockets.

Now if you could just find a Right Fielder for the Stros..............

[micah1j]

For those of you that want Damon Stoudamire: would he be our starter or the backup? :confused:

The way I see it Mike James is 4 inches taller, a much better defender, 2 years younger, same shooting, same ball handling. Damon is a better passer but that is about it.

Instead of throwing all this money at DS, why not just resign Mike James when he opts out next year?

I'm really afraid of Damon's complete lack of defense. If we bring him in I think our team defense will suffer alot unless he is coming off the bench.

I'm not opposed to MJ being our starter and DS being our backup.

[kanevil]

You guys are crazy to not want D.S with the Rockets. Remember all those games he single handedly almost beat us during the reg season games? Not to mention when he gets hot, he can shoot for 40pts/nite.

[cmellon]

You guys are crazy to not want D.S with the Rockets. Remember all those games he single handedly almost beat us during the reg season games? Not to mention when he gets hot, he can shoot for 40pts/nite.

I don't think having 4 players (T-Mac, Yao, Swift, Damon) who demand ball to shoot is good though. This will be the case of Dallas Mavericks before.

[Kyrodis]

The way I see it Mike James is 4 inches taller, a much better defender, 2 years younger, same shooting, same ball handling. Damon is a better passer but that is about it.
Wouldn't you say passing is the whole point of getting him if he's available for cheap? It's the POINT GUARD position. Passing is easily the most important skill for a point guard to have. Not only is Stoudamire a significantly better passer, but he also has much better court vision.

I'll concede the fact that Stoudamire is a huge liability on defense. I'l also admit that our chances of landing Stoudamire for the LLE is close to zero. Nonetheless, as good as Mike James is at creating his own shot, he's not very good at setting anything up for his teammates. Seeing as how he's supposed to be a point guard, that's a huge liability in itself.

[dharocks]

Mike James can't run an offense or a get us into our sets quickly. He just can't.

Get Damon. Better yet, get Damon & Derek Anderson.

[aries323]

Miles is good from midrange from the elbow down to the baseline, probably a lot of where he would play with us on offense. He has good post up ability. Or we can take him outside and let him dive to the bucket for dunks, or the stop and pop 16 footer. I think he can be very effective and has shown the ability to put the ball on the floor in the half court. He is still relatively raw but still has tremendous upside potential even though his off court antics are less than desired.


wow... now imagine fast break with Miles and Tmac on the wings, Stromile trailing and DM running it. Someone is getting dunked on.

[Jacquescas]

I think is DS signs with us for the LLE which isn't completely a bad idea. This hasn't been a very good money year for free agents. he could probably find more on the open market next. He can make close to 2 million and have a player option for a second year for slightly more. IF he does do it. I think its implied he wants to win and understands that this was a team before him and he will be a 3rd option at best. It also opens the door for him to have another 8-10 assist season like he did early in his career.

[Drexlerfan22]

I really wish people would stop talking positively about acquiring Darius Miles. You're making my head hurt.

[franchise23]

I really wish people would stop talking positively about acquiring Darius Miles. You're making my head hurt.

Yeah this team has really good chemestry and a guy like Miles can really mess that up. Besides he has absolutely no jump shot and would not be happy playing 7-10 mins behind T-mac.

[jopatmc]

wow... now imagine fast break with Miles and Tmac on the wings, Stromile trailing and DM running it. Someone is getting dunked on.

You must've read my post in the other thread.

[Jacquescas]

If Miles could buy into the system he could be a defensive machine but i'm not playing if with this rockets team

[aries323]

You must've read my post in the other thread.

or maybe great minds think alike...
:eek: :cool:

[Uprising]

Get it Dunn! Time to complete a GREAT week.

[leebigez]

Has anyone thought about Payton as a pg. In 30mins he pretty much did what Sura did except shoot a high fg. He's still durable and has a couple of good yrs in him with James behind him, it could work.

[hooroo]

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/bk/bkn/3271334
"the Rockets could offer [Damon] Stoudamire only a salary-cap exception expected to be worth about $1.7 million. Stoudamire, 31, who earned $12.5 million last season, is expected to receive offers considerably larger than the Rockets'"

Can contracts be so there's a massive jump from year to the next e.g 1.7 mill first year, then 3.7 the next, and 4.5 in the last? That would be Jasikevicius' asking price.

This is from hoopshype http://www.***************/article_13143.shtml not a reliable source but interesting nonetheless if it turns out that way since damon likes his greens :
"#6 – Expanded Drug Testing… What may later be dubbed the “Damon Stoudamire” rule; veteran players will be randomly tested 4 times throughout the year between the opening of training camp and the end of the Finals. Testing done during the playoffs will include non-playoff players. There still exists a window of about 5 months where players will not be subject to testing. The testing is said to include testing for any substance listed on the banned substance list including marijuana."

[RocketFire]

Count me in for the trade of Wesley and a pick for damon stoudamire.

DS/MJ/Head
Sura/Barry/Glover
T-mac/Glover/Bowen
Swift/Howard
Yao/Mutombo

IR: Ward, Baker, Spoon, Moochie (Get rid of them all for a good SG in the middle of the season.)

[micah1j]

Can contracts be so there's a massive jump from year to the next e.g 1.7 mill first year, then 3.7 the next, and 4.5 in the last? That would be Jasikevicius' asking price.


No. 10.5% raises are the highest.

[gucci888]

Count me in for the trade of Wesley and a pick for damon stoudamire.

DS/MJ/Head
Sura/Barry/Glover
T-mac/Glover/Bowen
Swift/Howard
Yao/Mutombo

IR: Ward, Baker, Spoon, Moochie (Get rid of them all for a good SG in the middle of the season.)

Seems like a very realistic lineup for the start of next season, I think it's a very talented team that could use a little more depth at SG and SF.

I wonder if Sura's defense on other shooting guards will satisfy JVG. I don't think Bob's got enough quickness to stick w/ any quick guards, and his knee isn't going to get any better.

[Dubious]

Would JVG eally want a guy so stupid he walked through an airport metal detector with pot wrapped in tinfoil in his pants? Is that the team leader at PG you want influencing your your players? Would Yao respect a pothead?

Say no to anything that takes us one tiny step in the direction of the Jailblazers.Make the the theme for this team hustle, smarts and character.
Only one team in 30 is going to take trophy anyway, wouldn't your first priority for the team you identify with be an image you respect?

No floppers, whiners, druggies, check cashers, dufusses, head cases, anger management reprobates, thugs, prima donnas, wife beaters, ball hogs, coach chokers, or PT petulants please.

[tmac]

No floppers, whiners, druggies, check cashers, dufusses, head cases, anger management reprobates, thugs, prima donnas, wife beaters, ball hogs, coach chokers, or PT petulants please.

I get your point, but that doesn't leave many players to choose from, haha--you might want to shorten the list. I think Van Gundy wouldn't bring someone in whom he can't work with. He is the guy who got a handle on Spree, and it's not like T-Mac had the greatest reputation in the world when he came over before last season. But you're right that the character of the team is one of the things that made it successful and fun last season.

[PhiSlammaJamma]

I agree, we got rid of the last pot smoke in Taylor, it's time to clean up the act as best as possible, say no to Stoudamire unless he's proven he's clean.

[jopatmc]

Hey, every team needs at least one weed wacker pot smoker, don't they?

[pariah]

No floppers, whiners, druggies, check cashers, dufusses, head cases, anger management reprobates, thugs, prima donnas, wife beaters, ball hogs, coach chokers, or PT petulants please.

or Children, animals, bitches, mingers". "fatty boom-booms, or gaylords"

[gbritton]

gosh, people hating on people who smoke... so what, he got caught. that shouldnt take away the fact he is a good player. and it sure as hell doesnt mean he is a bad person for it either. he may have a habit he shouldnt have as a professional basketball player, but dont start questioning his character for it. you dont even know the guy. for all you know he could be the nicest guy.

if tmac wants him on our team... then i want him on our team. tracy knows his sh$t, and i trust his judgment. From the comments about stromile and him saying he wants certain players really says a lot about tracy's leadership role he beginning to take. he wouldnt want players he feels would be deterimental to this team... b/c trust me... he wants a championship more than all of us.

[thegary]

Would Yao respect a pothead?

you sir, are a dork. if tmac wants DS, that's good enough for me. personally, i always liked a little frosting on my cake.

[Dubious]

Yeah I am dork undoubtably, and I have been known to have a toke but I didn't walk through an airport after 9/11 with a tinfoil dick-o-weed. And there is no chance of me jepordizing my multi-million dollar career by having an ocassional buzz on. If there were, I would have no problem not smoking till I retired at the ripe old age of 35 with enough money to own my own Jamaican Plantation. Geez call ahead to some flunkie wannbe and have him score you a bag.

The reason I mentioned Yao and potheads is because he was raised in a different culture where drug use is a more serious offense. Maybe if DS were an opium eater?

My point was, other than maybe Baker, we have a team of real selfless, go-getter, boy scouts. I wouldn't want anybody messing with that. I know I wouldn't want me on that team.

[thegary]

we have a team of real selfless, go-getter, boy scouts. I wouldn't want anybody messing with that. I know I wouldn't want me on that team.

sorry about calling you a dork, hell, i don't know you. but you don't know our squad on a personal basis either. i wouldn't just ASSume that they are all boy scouts.:p

[Bassfly]

Marijuana isn't a drug. You ever sucked d!ck for marijuana? I've sucked d!ck for coke .. Now that's addiction.


Gotta be one of the funniest lines in movie history, just cause it was Bob Saget (Danny Tanner).

[PhiSlammaJamma]

Bob Saget was good in that role. I was suprised he did it, and pulled it off. he needed that to loosen up his career a little.

As much of a dork as he was, he held that video show together, and when he left, it died for the most part. I don't get it. But he's the glue to his shows.

[micah1j]

Don't know if this was posted

http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/sports/1121853922105650.xml&coll=7&thispage=2

Multiple options for Stoudamire


Goodwin also is working the telephone lines for another client, Stoudamire. Goodwin said the point guard is drawing interest from teams lacking a solid presence at the position, teams such as the Lakers, Houston and Orlando. Miami also is interested, even though it has All-Star Dwyane Wade at point guard. Stoudamire played shooting guard at times last season for the Blazers.

Houston could be limited in how much it can offer Stoudamire after reportedly agreeing Monday to sign free agent forward Stromile Swift.

"We're just trying to figure out the best opportunity for him," Goodwin said. "Teams that need a very good point guard are going to be the frontrunners. We're just waiting to get an idea of what the numbers will be in the collective bargaining agreement."

The numbers and details of the new agreement are expected to be announced Friday, according to a league spokesman.

"That's the date we're looking at," said Tim Frank, the NBA's vice president of communications. "There are still some things that need to be worked out -- these things are complicated -- but we still expect it to be ready."

[wrath_of_khan]

Goodwin said the point guard is drawing interest from teams lacking a solid presence at the position, teams such as the Lakers, Houston and Orlando.

Ouch, poor Stevie!

[Relativist]

If they're just waiting for the CBA to come out, we may hear one way or another from Stoudamire by Monday, maybe even as early as Friday.

I doubt we're doing a S&T with Portland. If it's backlogged, I could see us trading a guard or two for a backup 3.

[JumpMan]

Ouch, poor Stevie!

Jameer Nelson = Orlando's PG

[wakkoman]

Count me in for the trade of Wesley and a pick for damon stoudamire.

DS/MJ/Head
Sura/Barry/Glover
T-mac/Glover/Bowen
Swift/Howard
Yao/Mutombo

IR: Ward, Baker, Spoon, Moochie (Get rid of them all for a good SG in the middle of the season.)


Aren't we restricted to only having a 15 man roster? The way I see it is Ward, Baker, Spoon, Moochie will hold down the bench and our playing rotation will be:

Yao/Mutumbo
Swift/Howard
T-mac
Sura/James/Wesley/Head

And we also have someone named Zendon Hamilton signed. That's already 14 people assuming we really are bringing back Mutumbo. If we also bring back Barry, we're tapped out at 15. If we cut Zendon Hamilton, we can bring in one other person. It might be D. Stoud or Glover or Baxter.

I'm not sure if we can only have a 15 man roster including injured reserve or maybe we can have 15 and then a few more in injured reserve. But if it is the former and we can only have 15 total . . . It hurts me to say it, but I kinda understand why we aren't rushing to resign Barry even though he'd cost us nothing. Mutumbo, I dunno what the deal is . . . Does he want more than the vet's min?

But hopefully we can trade someone to pick up D. Stoud. Just pointing out the 15 man roster so that we don't create superLARGE rosters.

[wakkoman]

Count me in for the trade of Wesley and a pick for damon stoudamire.

DS/MJ/Head
Sura/Barry/Glover
T-mac/Glover/Bowen
Swift/Howard
Yao/Mutombo

IR: Ward, Baker, Spoon, Moochie (Get rid of them all for a good SG in the middle of the season.)


Aren't we restricted to only having a 15 man roster? The way I see it is Ward, Baker, Spoon, Moochie will hold down the bench and our playing rotation will be:

Yao/Mutumbo
Swift/Howard
T-mac
Sura/James/Wesley/Head

And we also have someone named Zendon Hamilton signed. That's already 14 people assuming we really are bringing back Mutumbo. If we also bring back Barry, we're tapped out at 15. If we cut Zendon Hamilton, we can bring in one other person. It might be D. Stoud or Glover or Baxter.

I'm not sure if we can only have a 15 man roster including injured reserve or maybe we can have 15 and then a few more in injured reserve. But if it is the former and we can only have 15 total . . . It hurts me to say it, but I kinda understand why we aren't rushing to resign Barry even though he'd cost us nothing. Mutumbo, I dunno what the deal is . . . Does he want more than the vet's min?

But hopefully we can trade someone to pick up D. Stoud. Just pointing out the 15 man roster so that we don't create superLARGE dream rosters.

[barryxzz]

And we also have someone named Zendon Hamilton signed.

I believe Rockets has waived him long time ago (right after the trade to get MJ).

[patricktyip]

DS often played SG for the blazers last year, and maybe we'll have the same situation here. I can see Sura playing the 1 and DS playing the 2 on O, then switching on D.

JVG loves Sura's toughness and I just can't see him trading Sura away. As of now, whether it's his actual position on O and D, I see Sura as our starting 2.

Sura is a solid 6'5", hopefully his offseason surgery helps him regain some of his quickness, but this guy is an all-out warrior and he played through multiple injuries. We need his gritty-ness in our starting lineup. Someone please name a better 2 currently on our roster not named T-Mac.

[themocitydon]

if the rockets had to get rid of mike james in order to get damon in houston, i would do it immediatedly. we need some one who can pass instead of a steve francis jr.

[DaDakota]

I don't want Stoudamire...he is getting up there in years, and I think we can do better than him.

DD

[barbourdg]

I don't want Stoudamire...he is getting up there in years, and I think we can do better than him.

DD

any ideas who else can be had (that is better then Stoudamire) with our limited sources?

[chuichuitrain]

someone better than stoudamire?? damon fits our team perfectly. we need someone who has a point guard mentality, is quick enough to penetrate, has 3-point range, and can lead the fast break. stoudamire has been doing all of these things for years. and especially after hearing that he wants to play for us, that sounds like a perfect situation to me.

[thacabbage]

I'm not sure if it was in this thread or one of the other 10 Damon Stoudamire threads, but a reason against was mentioned that he smokes pot. LOL. You guys don't honestly think none of these guys don't ever light one up every once in a while?
Beggars aren't choosers. Some of you continuously mention his faults ie: that he's too short or doesn't D up. While I've maintained my minority opinion that our backcourt wasn't really a problem last year, it still remains that we probably have the least talented group of guards in all of basketball. While I feel they played their roles beautifully last year, a talent infusion would be a huge boost. We are strapped financially with what we can do, so it is beyond me why anyone would be against acquiring a former All-Star caliber point guard.
Some may say we have a 6 year window of opportunity to win, so we should pick and choose the right fit. I think this is ludicrous. It's not like this would be a big risk like trading for Jason Kidd. When you have a team good enough to compete for a championship, you need to give yourself a shot to compete for the championship. Heaven forbid T-Mac demands a trade or Yao returns to China in a year. Play for now if you're at that level. We are at that level.
What ever happened to making teams defend you rather than worrying about matching up? We're already a great defensive team. Sure, he'll get eaten alive by the Pistons, but it's not like there's any other physically imposing pg's in the league. He'll have his problems, but he puts constant pressure on the defense on the other end and that's better than anything we have right now.
I've always felt that perimeter individual defense is vastly overrated. We will have 2 shot blockers in the game now at all times and a great defensive system. Interior defense is what wins championships. There really isn't any such thing as perimeter defense. Some guys put more pressure than others or get more steals, but for the most part, any starting NBA guard can get by any other starting NBA guard. It's the inside guys that make the difference.
Stoudamire vastly improves this backcourt. He's good in the open court and a good shooter. He's also very good in the pick n roll as seen with Sabonis in earlier years.

[daoshi]

This is crazy. First, "DS is a pure point guard", then "Sura should be the starting SG". What's next? Yao is a true PF, and TMAC becomes J Kidd?

DS is definitely an upgrade over any PG we have, but he cannot be further away from "pure PG". I think his shot selection and defense will drive JVG crazy.

Sura to start at 2? Are we talking about a team to compete for playoff advance, or a lottery team? Sura started for us last year because we had absolutely no one on the back court. The guy is a career bench player!

[toby]

If he wants the LLE give it to him. If he wants a sign and trade . . . work with portland. As of now, I don't see any more legit points knocking down the rockets door. Any sort of talent infusion into the back court will go a long way to getting us deeper in the playoffs. MJ can hold the starting role if needed, but I don't think many on this bbs or JVG would be jumping at that option. Bobby Sura can't be relied upon for 82 games as a starting point. He worked his butt off last year and played through injury. The likeliness of that happening again is slim. David W. is a great player and a good undersized two, as a point though . . . don't think so. Ward . . . hmmm . . . nope. Head is a valuable addition, but that's a heavy load to place on the shoulders of a rookie. In the end, the rockets could be ok, with the same group in the back court as last year. But if we have the opportunity to role the dice, roll them.

I am not sure how much I love the idea of a super athletic front court with an older, injury ridden back court. We need a pretty good point or 2 guard. one or the other. between our current mix of guards the rox can platoon the other position.

If Damon wants the job, get him here. Sign and Trade. LLE. whatever. If anyone wants either job . . . lets look at him. The LLE itself won't bring anyone to this team. The players and organization will though. Looking at the current back court . . . anyone is worth considering.

[hooroo]

rockets used the LLE last year they only have a couple of TE (one at 1.7 million)
if damon signs for that that's a bargain if he doesn't try jeff mcinnis or chris duhon.

the bulls finished off strongly when they made the changes and had duhon starting with hinrich at sg. duhon played around 20 mins a game but it was formula that worked. wesley and sura aren't bad players they're just old, using duhon to save their legs could work for the rox.

mcinnis and duhon have d will work.

[mogrod]

Has there been any news about McInnis at all out there?

The guy has talent. I'm surprised his name hasn't come up at all, let alone with the Rockets.

[Desert Scar]

rockets used the LLE last year they only have a couple of TE (one at 1.7 million)
if damon signs for that that's a bargain if he doesn't try jeff mcinnis or chris duhon.

the bulls finished off strongly when they made the changes and had duhon starting with hinrich at sg. duhon played around 20 mins a game but it was formula that worked. wesley and sura aren't bad players they're just old, using duhon to save their legs could work for the rox.

mcinnis and duhon have d will work.

We do have our LLE and I think the most of our two TEs is like 1.3 mil, it can't be combined with anything and thus is very unlikely to be used.

Duhon is restricted, no way to land him with what we can offer. McInnis is not known as a team guy and I am not sure he offers much over our collective group of Sura/James/Wesley/Barry anyway.

This is crazy. First, "DS is a pure point guard", then "Sura should be the starting SG". What's next? Yao is a true PF, and TMAC becomes J Kidd?

DS is definitely an upgrade over any PG we have, but he cannot be further away from "pure PG". I think his shot selection and defense will drive JVG crazy.

Sura to start at 2? Are we talking about a team to compete for playoff advance, or a lottery team? Sura started for us last year because we had absolutely no one on the back court. The guy is a career bench player!

DS is a 10 year NBA starter. He has always generated good assist numbers, has a fine A/TO ratio, and is a good outside shooter (I think he would not just be "good" but be a Kenny Smith-ish dead eye off the looks created by TM and Yao). That sounds like a significant upgrade to me.

BS has played a lot more of his career as an SG than any other position (some 1 and some 3 too). Would he be a better than average starting SG? No, however a lot of championships have been one with guys like this who had some less than stellar facets but who played their role really well. In fact except for Detroit of last year, every recent champion has had guys like this who would not start for most NBA teams but who found a nice niche and played to their strengths.

[Relativist]

Has there been any news about McInnis at all out there?

The guy has talent. I'm surprised his name hasn't come up at all, let alone with the Rockets.

I've heard he's a cancer and can't play defense. Cleveland fans really dislike him. I'll pass.

[jopatmc]

Of the point guards that are available that have apparently been discussed by our club and could possibly wind up on our roster or are already on our roster, I would rate them this way:

1. Damon-the best offensive PG out there. He can flat light it up. He knows how to get his shot off, even in traffic, he runs the break well, and he knows how to distribute. On the flip side, he's the worst defensively out there. Still he seems to be TMac's fav. If we could get a good, tall, defensive SG to go with DS, then maybe his lack of size and defensive presence could be overlooked.

2. Jason Williams-very effective offensive PG. Not a bad shooter but definitely not as good a shooter as DS and sometimes plays out of control but a good distributor and would be great on the break. Has more size and better defensive skills than Damon but nothing to write home about on the defensive end.

3. Bob Sura-tough, hard-nosed attitude player, with a nose for the ball off the glass. Always has a nack for being in the spot where the ball comes off the rim, a skill that can't be taught. Slow as molasses-not effective running the break, doesn't look to run the break, most of the time is too busy rebounding the ball to even get out on the break. Very slow setup on his jumpshot/set shot and not all that accurate. Gives the defense time to recover because it takes him so long to get his shot lined up. Not all that accurate on top of that. Too slow defensively to be effective especially against PGs in this league. Really, too slow to to even guard SGs. But he brings all the intangibles, all the scraping, hitting the floor, diving for loose balls, etc. etc. etc. And even though he is slow, he has a nack for getting in the lane and hitting the dipsy doodle shots. (DS also has this in his reportoire)

4. Mike James-the modern day version of Vinny "The Microwave" Johnson. Will have a field goal attempt within 20 seconds of entering the game. Not a good passer on the offensive end. Can create his own shot, and when he is on, he is extremely fast with the ball. His speed sometimes gets him in trouble though as he forces too much and gets out of control. However, when he is on the floor, he is usually the fastest player on the floor. He has a good jumper and can dribble to create his own space to shoot it. Not a good passer or distributor. On the defensive end, he has the potential to be a disruptive force by overplaying and playing the passing lanes. But doesn't play smart, gets beat because he gambles and then doesn't fight to recover. Doesn't seem to mesh well with TMac.

Other possibles: Sam Cassell, Dickau, Brevin Knight, Nick Van Exel, Jeff McInnis--not real impressed with any of them unless Cassell can regain his 2003-2004 form. He would not be better than Stoudamire offensively, so he would have to represent an improvement over Stoudamire defensively for it to be worth it. I think he may be over the hill and not able to recover the defense.


Just looking at our PG situation and thinking about how to improve this team, I am starting to think that maybe DS would be the best fit. If Van Gundy would be willing to design the defense so that DS could play the passing lanes, and keep DS out of post up situations as much as possible by shading help, then it may just work. I am convinced that having DS on the offensive will make our offense even more lethal. He can flat out shoot, he makes good decisions, he's smart, he can get in the paint, and he won't be looking to rebound but will be out in position to take the outlet pass. After getting Swift at the 4, I think having a rebounding PG is not nearly as important as it used to be.

After considering Jason Williams, I am convinced that Van Gundy could make him fit as well. He would be great on the break, and not quite as good as DS in the half court sets. But he could probably be a lot more effective defensively than DS just because of his size.

Either of these guys represents an upgrade to our current PG situation. I love Sura, and I'd still like to see him on this team. But I think his style will be less important this year than last year. The key thing that we need that Sura gives us is attitude. I'd like to have him off the bench as the 3rd guard. But if we have to move him to get one of the above 2, I think we have to do it. Swift is going to give us some of the attitude that Sura gave us last year. And McGrady is going to have even more influence on the floor with the players this year. It is clear that it is his team. He'll be in their face plenty.

[RAYRAY]

I was flipping thru the channels and I happened to flip to fox 26 sports and I saw the very ending of them interviewing Damon Stoudemire....can anyone tell us what they were talkin about??

[Desert Scar]

2. Jason Williams-very effective offensive PG. Not a bad shooter but definitely not as good a shooter as DS and sometimes plays out of control but a good distributor and would be great on the break. Has more size and better defensive skills than Damon but nothing to write home about on the defensive end.


I assume you are talking about Memphis's Jason Williams? Terrible contract. The only reason we would consider him was because we needed to for them to S&T Swift, getting Swift via the MLE we don't have to.

As for the Duke Jason Williams, not a bad flyer, but the likelihood he is better PG than James or Sura next year is remote, very remote. Head has a better chance, and that is remote as well, at least for a couple years.

Other than that I like your analysis, and agree DS brings more overall to the table. I think the more physical/intense James backing up DS would make a great 1-2 punch. Sura plays more 2, and even some 3, if we acquire DS.

[mogrod]

I've heard he's a cancer and can't play defense. Cleveland fans really dislike him. I'll pass.

Well, I wasn't saying that is who they should get. I was curious as the lack of rumors or news about where he might end up.

[DaDakota]

any ideas who else can be had (that is better then Stoudamire) with our limited sources?


TJ Ford or Jay Williams.

[Rocketball]

I was flipping thru the channels and I happened to flip to fox 26 sports and I saw the very ending of them interviewing Damon Stoudemire....can anyone tell us what they were talkin about??

I saw it, was nothing much - they said this was the first interview after meeting with the Rockets. They were trying to pry into which way he was leaning. He said that he doesn't like to talk to media and papers over these issues. All he really said is they know where I am at and I know where that and we will see what happens. It appeared that he really wants to be here and vice versa if things can be worked out. Not much else than that...............sorry..

[RAYRAY]

I saw it, was nothing much - they said this was the first interview after meeting with the Rockets. They were trying to pry into which way he was leaning. He said that he doesn't like to talk to media and papers over these issues. All he really said is they know where I am at and I know where that and we will see what happens. It appeared that he really wants to be here and vice versa if things can be worked out. Not much else than that...............sorry..


thanks for the info...

[Relativist]

He said that he doesn't like to talk to media and papers over these issues.

Probably remembers the disastrous trade that never happened. ;)

mogrod, I realize I didn't read your post carefully. My apologies if it seemed like I was jumping down your throat. It is interesting that we haven't heard much about McInnis.

[hooroo]

I've heard he's a cancer and can't play defense. Cleveland fans really dislike him. I'll pass.

lebron was quite supportive of mcinnis in the papers.

[barbourdg]

TJ Ford or Jay Williams.

Both guys are coming off injuries (one still could be career ending) and last time I checked - TJ Ford was not a free agent.

But you seriously think these guys future potential, is better then somebody ready to play now like Stoudmaire? He is coming off a pretty good season, with 15.8 ppg, 5.7 apg, and .369 3PT% & .915 FT%.

TJ Ford is not available anyways, but I agree Jay Williams would be a great pickup (if its for cheap). Even if he is ready to play, he will probably be VERY RUSTY for a good year to two.

You may not like Soudmaire for whatever reason, but he is a major upgrade to what we currently have as our upcoming starter.

[ricealum]

Damon would probably be my top choice right now if the price were right. I'm not thrilled about it, but he would definitely improve the backcourt. The plain fact is that the pickings are slim and we have little to offer.

Another possibility is Gary Payton. He seemed to defy the skeptics last year, starting 77 games, averaging 6.1 assists (3.2 A/T ratio) and having a +14 efficiency. The Celts were a net +1.1 with him on the floor. He's an UFA unlikely to receive a sizable offer. But he's 37.

In Clipperland, Marko Jaric is unhappy playing behind Shaun Livingston and wants to go somewhere he can start. He's only 27, with almost the same assist stats as Payton, and at 6-7, 217, he has good size. He hit 37% of his 3s last year, but only played 50 games. He has a +13 efficiency rating and the Clips are +4.9 per 100 possessions with him on the court. He's a three position player, though, and may be best suited for the 3 spot. He's a RFA who made $6 million last year, though, and we would need help from the Clips to get him.

Thoughts?

[Tigerknee]

Probably remembers the disastrous trade that never happened. ;)

What trade was that?

[RocketsPimp]

What trade was that?

There was a deal that was virtually done for the Rockets to aquire DS several years ago, but that assclown, Glen Grunwald played the media into getting another deal. Also, Roderick Rhodes was rumored to be a deal breaker.

The deal:

Kevin Willis
Maloney
Ellie

for

Stoudamire
Walt Williams
Zan Tabak

[steddinotayto]

Another possibility is Gary Payton.

I'd consider Payton. Granted his shot has been slipping the past few years, but he's a big PG that can back down his opponents and he makes good decisions with the ball.

Jaric? Nope. I don't want Neo on our team

[payaso]

What trade was that?

Stoudamire for Mario Elie (and other considerations?) 1997.
Aborted b/c Glen Grunwald was a putz about the deal and made all parties involved hate him enough to kill the deal.

Longtime denizens of the forum, can you provide any clarity that I may have missed in the 8 years since it happened?

[payaso]

Stoudamire for Mario Elie (and other considerations?) 1997.
Aborted b/c Glen Grunwald was a putz about the deal and made all parties involved hate him enough to kill the deal.

Longtime denizens of the forum, can you provide any clarity that I may have missed in the 8 years since it happened?

Good job on ya, Pimp... I've been out of the loop for a while it seems... :confused:

[RAYRAY]

Apparently the Lakers made an offer to Stoudemire...he'd be an idiot if he goes there...although they are offering more...So i guess this will prove if Stoudemire wants to win or if its all about the money.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=fanball-lakersstoudamirepayt&prov=fanball&type=lgns

[YallMean]

Apparently the Lakers made an offer to Stoudemire...he'd be an idiot if he goes there...although they are offering more...So i guess this will prove if Stoudemire wants to win or if its all about the money.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=fanball-lakersstoudamirepayt&prov=fanball&type=lgns


Money wise, we cant offer 5M for DS. Does DS really want to stick to a rebuilding team at this point of his career for some pocket change compare with his big pay days in portland?

[thacabbage]

Stoudamire for Mario Elie (and other considerations?) 1997.
Aborted b/c Glen Grunwald was a putz about the deal and made all parties involved hate him enough to kill the deal.

Longtime denizens of the forum, can you provide any clarity that I may have missed in the 8 years since it happened?
The proposed deal on the table was Mario Elie, Brent Price, and Kevin Willis for Stoudamire, Zan Tabak, and I think Walt Williams. This is what I don't understand. We're talking about a 23 year old former ROY, dynamo point guard who was very highly thought of at the time and Toronto was considering that lousy package? Price was pretty worthless and Elie and Willis were both on their last legs. It would be the equivalent of trading like Telfair or Shaun Livingston or maybe Tony Parker in today's NBA for aging role players that can't help you rebuild. I can't believe we were even in the running for him with the crap we were offering. If I'm not mistaken, the deal was then altered where we offered some additional garbage like Matt Maloney and Toronto wanted Roderick Rhodes. That was the end of that.

[Da Man]

The proposed deal on the table was Mario Elie, Brent Price, and Kevin Willis for Stoudamire, Zan Tabak, and I think Walt Williams. This is what I don't understand. We're talking about a 23 year old former ROY, dynamo point guard who was very highly thought of at the time and Toronto was considering that lousy package? Price was pretty worthless and Elie and Willis were both on their last legs. It would be the equivalent of trading like Telfair or Shaun Livingston or maybe Tony Parker in today's NBA for aging role players that can't help you rebuild. I can't believe we were even in the running for him with the crap we were offering. If I'm not mistaken, the deal was then altered where we offered some additional garbage like Matt Maloney and Toronto wanted Roderick Rhodes. That was the end of that.

For some reason I don't remember Kevin Willis being a part of the package. Don't forget Kevin Willis did net us 2 1st round draft picks in 1998 from Toronto (3 months after the Stoudamire botched trade), so he did have quite a bit of value (at least from Toronto's point of view).

[Zacatecas]

Back then the Rockets had Barkley, Drexler, and Hakeem. But they also didn't have a point guard worthy of that line up.

If Damon Stoudomire would have come to Houston, it is pretty fair to assume that the Rockets would have beaten the Jazz and played the Bulls for the Championship!! I remember the radio and Jim Rome announcing it was a done deal. Imagine the shock when we found out that Portland had landed him!!!

[daoshi]

DS is a 10 year NBA starter. He has always generated good assist numbers, has a fine A/TO ratio, and is a good outside shooter (I think he would not just be "good" but be a Kenny Smith-ish dead eye off the looks created by TM and Yao). That sounds like a significant upgrade to me.

I'm not questioning DS's talent as a player, but his pros & cons to fit the Rockets. With Yao and TMac as the offensive core, JVG's hard & physical defensive philosophy, we need more of a traditional, pass-first PG, who can direct half court offensive most of the time. I know DS has good passing skills, but we also know he is a good PG with shooter's mentality. Plus, his defense was very suspecious when he was young, now he is 32?


BS has played a lot more of his career as an SG than any other position (some 1 and some 3 too). Would he be a better than average starting SG? No, however a lot of championships have been one with guys like this who had some less than stellar facets but who played their role really well. In fact except for Detroit of last year, every recent champion has had guys like this who would not start for most NBA teams but who found a nice niche and played to their strengths.

I know every good/great team needs role players, you cannot win with all star players at each position. But those role player do their "role", namely they do exactly what the coach want them to do, there are the "system/strcture" players. I just don't think BS is the "system" kind of "role" player. To get off bench to play a few minutes, yes; to start for a JVG-lead-competing-for-playoff-advanced Rockets, no.

[alaskansnowman]

I think people make an unwarranted huge deal of Stoudy's defensive deficiencies. Consider that we were in the top 5 in many defensive categories [ OPP FG%, OPP PTS, etc.], but we were ranked something like 20th as far as key offensive categories go.

In other words, offense is a far more pressing concern than defense. As long as our team defense is good, Stoudy's lack of height will not be a huge issue IMO.

The backward steps that we take on defense as a result of Stoudamire will be more than cancelled out by the forward steps we take on offense. A smooth pg is essential to a good offense and should catapult us forward.

[FishBulb913]

Is there any updates on him coming or not? Hoopshype said the lakers are after him

[Desert Scar]

I think people make an unwarranted huge deal of Stoudy's defensive deficiencies. Consider that we were in the top 5 in many defensive categories [ OPP FG%, OPP PTS, etc.], but we were ranked something like 20th as far as key offensive categories go.

In other words, offense is a far more pressing concern than defense. As long as our team defense is good, Stoudy's lack of height will not be a huge issue IMO.

The backward steps that we take on defense as a result of Stoudamire will be more than cancelled out by the forward steps we take on offense. A smooth pg is essential to a good offense and should catapult us forward.

I completely agree, particularly when you think of the Swift addition at the PF is more of a defensive move than an offensive move. DS would make our offense much smoother than with Mike James running the show, and much more more explosive than with Sura running the show. We are talking about a very productive 10 year starting PG.

For us to get DS I think it will have to be a S&T. Portland might be willing to do a reasonable trade (DW + 06 1st or the NY 2nd) rather than see him walk to LA and them get nothing. It is up to Portland unless DS would take our LLE, very doubtfull.

[thegary]

i think it will have to be a sign and trade. i don't know why so many are down on DS, i've always like his game. hell, he's torched us enough. in reality, it probably just isn't fair to ask him to take the LLE.

[Panda]

Swift - MLE

DS - Sign and trade. No more than 3 mils a year.

Finley - LLE.

CD - GM of the year!

[job]

Stoudamire for the LLE, but if not then let him walk. He has to really want to come here and fit in for me to want him.

[aries323]

I completely agree, particularly when you think of the Swift addition at the PF is more of a defensive move than an offensive move. DS would make our offense much smoother than with Mike James running the show, and much more more explosive than with Sura running the show. We are talking about a very productive 10 year starting PG.

For us to get DS I think it will have to be a S&T. Portland might be willing to do a reasonable trade (DW + 06 1st or the NY 2nd) rather than see him walk to LA and them get nothing. It is up to Portland unless DS would take our LLE, very doubtfull.

I completely agree, although DS WANTS to be here, the LLE isn`t going to cut it with him, he will put up 15 ppg 6-8 apg on this team, take pressure off T-Mac to do a lot of creating, and he can drain 3`s all day long. He`s got a great shot even though some stats wont state that but it seems like everytime we play the blazers this guy is draining shots left and right. He`d be a great fit here, He`d come in and start, but he is definitely worth more than the LLE, now NVE he might could be had for the LLE although I doubt that too.

[RocketsPimp]

Swift - MLE

DS - Sign and trade. No more than 3 mils a year.

Finley - LLE.

CD - GM of the year!

I'd rob a bank and pay for the party for CD if that were to happen.

[Billyp]

Time for my first post :)

Even with Damon's height being a problem, I still see him as a perfect fit. He's a true point who can direct the offense and hopefully get some entry passes into Yao. He's still a threat with the three ball too and will get plenty of oppurtunies to prove that with Yao and T-Mac out there. Sura did a decent job with the open three balls but Damon would really punish his defender for sagging. On defense, I don't think he would be a huge liability. He's still quick enough to keep guys like AI and Arenas in front of him. Bigger PGs would be able to muscle and post him but they will have to look over their shoulders for either Yao or Swift's long arms. We also have the option of throwing James in if a guy is totally killing us. If we add Damon too, we can look into adding a defensive oriented SG instead of a scorer. Just picture Damon controlling the fast break with T-Mac, and Swift on the wings and Yao trailing behind (maybe add Luther Head in there too). That's definitely gonna put some highlights on Sportscenter.

[jscmedia]

I read mention of the news conference. Details please ? Is it saturday? Time?

thanks in advance.