[justice] Mclane article

[NJRocket]

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3216047



Isn't that the way it is with some people? They barely know your name when the confetti's swirling. They hang around former presidents, smoke fat stogies and drink from silver goblets.

Then when there is smoke pouring from the engine, they tell you they have been meaning to call.

"You never wanted my friendship ... ." Vito Corleone tells Bonasera at the beginning of The Godfather. "Now you come to me."

Lucky for Drayton, I'm a soft touch. If he wants my help, he gets my help.

His e-mail said he would like to talk to me because I'm so knowledgeable about baseball.

Well (blush), yes.


Worth noting? Maybe
I showed up at his office the other afternoon ready for one of those tough-love chats. I had a list in my pocket. I was going to be quick, clean and to the point.

I was going to tell him Astros general manager Tim Purpura needed more autonomy and that Chris Burke and Jason Lane needed more playing time. I was going to tell him to loosen the purse strings next winter for a reliever and a hitter.

I wanted him to understand that stretching the payroll one year should be viewed more as an investment than a debt.

I'd rehearsed my spiel so many times Rusty Hardin would be envious. And McLane did allow me to make each and every point.

What bothered me was that he wasn't taking notes. Not a single one. I know he has a sharp mind, but he is going to turn 69 in a few weeks.

Shouldn't he have jotted down a few of my better suggestions?

He said Purpura has as much autonomy as Gerry Hunsicker had. He smiled proudly when he said this. I didn't have the heart to tell him that a lack of autonomy was the biggest reason Hunsicker left.

McLane said his baseball people had assured him Lane and Burke indeed would play.

As for spending more money, well, pigs don't fly.


Blast from the past
Turns out, what McLane really wanted was a chance to defend himself from a column I had written blaming him for this disaster of a season.

Instead of looking forward, he wanted to look back.

For instance, Jeff Kent's name came up about every six seconds.

I believe McLane mishandled those negotiations last winter. First, he declined to pick up Kent's $9 million option for 2005. Then he offered Kent a deal that would have been worth more money.

I told him bringing Kent back should have been a no-brainer. He was the National League's best player at his position and a probable future Hall of Famer.

McLane had a good defense. The Astros wanted Craig Biggio to play second base.

That answer would make sense except that it is inconsistent with what they did. They declined to pick up Kent's option, then realized they had made a mistake and tried to re-sign him at an even higher price.

Once Kent left, McLane vetoed his baseball staff's idea of signing Moises Alou. So at that point, his entire offseason was about signing Carlos Beltran.

This strategy, he acknowledged, was a mistake.

"I misjudged that," McLane said. "I got to know Carlos and (Beltran's wife) Jessica extremely well. I thought they would want to stay in Houston. I thought this was their kind of city. I thought they would drive the deal more than they did."

He believes agent Scott Boras steered Beltran to New York.

"He used us to go to the Mets," he said. "I think he learned his lesson after signing Alex Rodriguez with the Rangers. A-Rod didn't get marquee endorsements playing for the Rangers. I think he wanted Carlos in New York to get the media and endorsements. I should have seen that. That's my view now."

Money typically was a big part of the conversation. He refused to tell me his team's revenues.

No surprise there. Baseball owners love to blabber about their money problems when they want public dollars for a ballpark. Once they get the ballpark, they decide their finances are none of your business.

McLane told me several times during the 2002 labor negotiations he would open his books once the deal was done. He has since changed his story, saying commissioner Bud Selig won't allow it.

"It's not something you're supposed to talk about," he said.

He will only say that he has lost a bunch of money. Even last season when the Astros drew a record 3.2 million fans, McLane said he lost around $8 million.

And despite an additional $12 million to $15 million a year in local television revenue, he doesn't plan to raise the payroll. He is going to run the Astros like any other business.

"We've been here 12 years," he said, "and lost money in 11 of them. We've had to subsidize to keep the payroll at a certain level. We've lost money in 11 of them."

More than any one specific move, we disagreed over philosophy. I believed the Astros should have built on last season's momentum, that McLane should not have torn apart a team that missed the World Series by one victory.

He says it has been more bad luck than bad planning.

"It's been kind of a perfect storm," he said. "We didn't know Lance Berkman was going to tear up his knee. We thought Jeff Bagwell would continue to play at the level he did last year. And then we thought some of the young players would play better than they have. It seems small at the time, but when a bunch of the players got sick, that really hit hard. Brad Lidge lost 10 pounds. I think we had five players in the hospital."

Other than Beltran, he didn't concede a single point. No matter what Kent could have provided in terms of offense, Biggio is McLane's man. He appreciates Biggio remaining with the Astros and intends to usher him through his final playing days and into the Hall of Fame.

"Twice, he could have left here," McLane said, "but he stayed. He stayed one time for less money. I might make a lot of mistakes, but I'm a very loyal person."

When we were done, we shook hands even though we had disagreed on almost every major point.

Salesmen never stop selling. Nor should they.

[NJRocket]

We didn't know Lance Berkman was going to tear up his knee. We thought Jeff Bagwell would continue to play at the level he did last year. And then we thought some of the young players would play better than they have. It seems small at the time, but when a bunch of the players got sick, that really hit hard. Brad Lidge lost 10 pounds. I think we had five players in the hospital."

Ok...the Berkman thing i can understand. He thought Bags would continue to produce with a worse shoulder and no lineup protection???? Is he kidding?

As for the young guys....Taveras is one of the top base stealers in the league...Lane (I am assuing he thought of him as a young guy) had a hotter 1st month than anyone in baseball....and the rest of the rookies played like rookies....what more could he have hoped for?

The flu? Is he really saying that the flu bug that went thru the clubhouse is why they are 2-22 or whatever on the road? Cmon Drayton. I give credit where credit is due...and maybe this is what his "people" (i.e. purpura) told him....but whichever the case, those are some ridiculous statements.

"Twice, he could have left here," McLane said, "but he stayed. He stayed one time for less money. I might make a lot of mistakes, but I'm a very loyal person."


almost to a fault

[NJRocket]

And despite an additional $12 million to $15 million a year in local television revenue, he doesn't plan to raise the payroll. He is going to run the Astros like any other business.

Dunno about you guys, but thats not really what I want to hear.

[Rocketman95]

Originally posted by NJRocket
Dunno about you guys, but thats not really what I want to hear.

I'm going to take that with a grain of salt. There was no direct quote from McLane in the article stating that. The quote directly following Justice's statement doesn't prove that he won't raise payroll. Payroll has been raised nearly every year, if not every year.

[Master Baiter]

This is a terrible article. His takes are so tired. "I'm a news writer! I'm so smart! We should have done this! Drayton McLane is an idiot!"

Get over yourself.

[PhiSlammaJamma]

we gave out 2 mvps. Of course we suck. It doesn't take a genius to figure it out. The new kids will have to step up. But I can live with that. We can't have a contender every year.

[SamCassell]

I'm tired of hearing McLane talk about how he's lost money. Since they moved to the new ballpark, I just don't believe that's true. I've seen independent reports proving that he's lying or fudging the numbers through creative accounting to claim a loss. And he won't show his books.

I don't think an owner is obligated to spend at a certain level. If he wants to make a profit, he's entitled to. But don't make up crap to justify it.

[rikesh316]

If Mclane was losing money like he said, don't you think he would be in a hurry to sell the team. That bastard is a liar.

[VesceySux]

Shouldn't he have jotted down a few of my better suggestions?

Can you BE any more vain? Justice writes a column that a few people read and quickly forget. Nothing more, nothing less. I highly doubt he has any major league scouting experience. Or an MBA. Or any negotiations experience. Or a law degree for looking over contracts and interpreting laws. JUSTICE, YOU ARE A JOE SCHMOE. AN ARMCHAIR QUARTERBACK. ANOTHER FACELESS FAN WITH AN OPINION. McCLANE OWES YOU NOTHING. Get over yourself.

I told him bringing Kent back should have been a no-brainer. He was the National League's best player at his position and a probable future Hall of Famer.

Does Justice even READ the crap he shoves on the public? He was Kent's #1 detractor for a LONG time. CREDIBILITY... SHOT.

Salesmen never stop selling. Nor should they.

And apparently, some sports columnists never stop spewing crap.


Whew. Just felt the need to vent AT Justice for being such an incredible douche bag. Hey, you have your anti-McClane campaign; I have my anti-Justice one. :)

(I wonder if JusticeSux is still available...)

[Hammer755]

Justice is a hack with good connections (which probably can be said about 90% of the country's sportswriters). Jeff Kent is not the difference between last year's team and this year's.

[xiki]

Originally posted by VesceySux
I highly doubt he has any major league scouting experience. Or an MBA. Or any negotiations experience. Or a law degree for looking over contracts and interpreting laws.

You are entitled to your take on (in)Justice, but -- that part tickled me because of the way Boros took apart the billionaire DMc with Beltran.

[MadMax]

i'm too tired.

[TheFreak]

No matter what Kent could have provided in terms of offense, Biggio is McLane's man. He appreciates Biggio remaining with the Astros and intends to usher him through his final playing days and into the Hall of Fame.

"Twice, he could have left here," McLane said, "but he stayed. He stayed one time for less money. I might make a lot of mistakes, but I'm a very loyal person."

Wish he owned the Rockets.

[pgabriel]

Originally posted by TheFreak
No matter what Kent could have provided in terms of offense, Biggio is McLane's man. He appreciates Biggio remaining with the Astros and intends to usher him through his final playing days and into the Hall of Fame.

"Twice, he could have left here," McLane said, "but he stayed. He stayed one time for less money. I might make a lot of mistakes, but I'm a very loyal person."

Wish he owned the Rockets.


Then they wouldn't have any rings.

[Rocketman95]

Originally posted by pgabriel
Then they wouldn't have any rings.

Because McLane would've caused Hakeem to start airballing all his shots and tripping over himself why he attempted the Dreamshake, right?

[VesceySux]

Originally posted by xiki
You are entitled to your take on (in)Justice, but -- that part tickled me because of the way Boros took apart the billionaire DMc with Beltran.

I'm attacking the messenger, not the message. Justice's self-important ramblings can be reduced to:

"Why, yes I am qualified to run the Astros! After all, I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night."

[Rocketman95]

Originally posted by xiki
You are entitled to your take on (in)Justice, but -- that part tickled me because of the way Boros took apart the billionaire DMc with Beltran.

Why in the world would that tickle you...unless you're not an Astros fan. Which, in that case, it makes perfect sense.

[pgabriel]

Originally posted by Rocketman95
Because McLane would've caused Hakeem to start airballing all his shots and tripping over himself why he attempted the Dreamshake, right?


Actually I'm just pointing out one organization has championships the other doesn't.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by pgabriel
Actually I'm just pointing out one organization has championships the other doesn't.

i'd like to point out that it's apples and oranges. that one sport has a salary cap and healthy revenue sharing while the other does not.

[Rocketman95]

Originally posted by pgabriel
Actually I'm just pointing out one organization has championships the other doesn't.

Actually I'm just pointing out that McLane didn't forget how to swing a bat in the postseason.

[pgabriel]

I'm not trying to take a shot you guys' uncle. Calm down.

[pgabriel]

Originally posted by MadMax
i'd like to point out that it's apples and oranges. that one sport has a salary cap and healthy revenue sharing while the other does not.

Marlins
Angels
Diamondbacks

[MadMax]

Originally posted by pgabriel
Marlins
Angels
Diamondbacks

DC United
Boy Scouts
the Dave Matthews Band

[pgabriel]

Originally posted by MadMax
DC United
Boy Scouts
the Dave Matthews Band


Exactly, you don't have a response. MLB probably has had a more diverse group of champions the past few years than the NBA.

[Rocketman95]

Originally posted by pgabriel
I'm not trying to take a shot you guys' uncle. Calm down.

Crap Max, we forgot to run our posts through the pgabriel authorization system.

This post not approved by pgabriel.

[Buck Turgidson]

I
love
lamp.

[Rocketman95]

Originally posted by Buck Turgidson
I
love
lamp.

LOUD NOISES!!!

[pgabriel]

Originally posted by Rocketman95
Crap Max, we forgot to run our posts through the pgabriel authorization system.

This post not approved by pgabriel.

Whatever dude, you guys are the ones who act like Drayton can do no wrong. I try to say that I wasn't critizing him and you still want to argue with me.

[xiki]

Originally posted by Rocketman95
Why in the world would that tickle you...unless you're not an Astros fan. Which, in that case, it makes perfect sense.

Because you think Justice is such a dolt, and when DMc was 'on the clock' he got clocked. Hate RJ all you want but your attack sounded like an anti-McLane in Richard's toggery.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by pgabriel
Exactly, you don't have a response. MLB probably has had a more diverse group of champions the past few years than the NBA.

yeah...you got me, pgabriel.

the Marlins are an aberration. The Angels are from freaking Los Angeles, pgabs. and the Diamondbacks spent so much they're in debt they can't dig out of.

but yeah..it's just like the NBA. you're right. where teams from places like San Antonio win titles. it's EXACTLY the same.

[Rocketman95]

Originally posted by pgabriel
Whatever dude, you guys are the ones who act like Drayton can do no wrong. I try to say that I wasn't critizing him and you still want to argue with me.

Whatever dude, I was just trying to point out that the reason the Astros didn't have championships wasn't because of the owner, since that's clearly what your post implied.

post not approved by pgabriel.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by xiki
Because you think Justice is such a dolt, and when DMc was 'on the clock' he got clocked. Hate RJ all you want but your attack sounded like an anti-McLane in Richard's toggery.

i don't know what any of that means...but if it's bad to be a dolt, than Justice is that.

[pgabriel]

Originally posted by Rocketman95
Whatever dude, I was just trying to point out that the reason the Astros didn't have championships wasn't because of the owner, since that's clearly what your post implied.

post not approved by pgabriel.


And all I was trying to point out is that you shouldn't criticize the one owner in town who's teams do have championships, regardless of how you feel about the other ones.

[Rocketman95]

Originally posted by xiki
Because you think Justice is such a dolt, and when DMc was 'on the clock' he got clocked. Hate RJ all you want but your attack sounded like an anti-McLane in Richard's toggery.

I have no idea what this means.

[Rocketman95]

Originally posted by pgabriel
And all I was trying to point out is that you shouldn't criticize the one owner in town who's teams do have championships, regardless of how you feel about the other ones.

Gotcha.

[SamCassell]

Originally posted by Rocketman95
Actually I'm just pointing out that McLane didn't forget how to swing a bat in the postseason.
That was Biggio, right? :)

I'd definitely put more blame on Biggio (and, to a lesser extent, Bagwell) than McLane for the postseason failures in 97, 98, 99, and 01. A team's not going to win if its leadoff hitter never gets on base. McLane and Hunsicker let alot of pitching get away in those years, but the starting staff continually put up good performances in the postseason, and they brought in guys to make us competitive. If our future Hall of Famers had hit like they did in the regular season, we would have had a legitimate championship shot in 98 and perhaps some of those other postseasons.

[pgabriel]

Originally posted by MadMax
yeah...you got me, pgabriel.

the Marlins are an aberration. The Angels are from freaking Los Angeles, pgabs. and the Diamondbacks spent so much they're in debt they can't dig out of.

but yeah..it's just like the NBA. you're right. where teams from places like San Antonio win titles. it's EXACTLY the same.

I see how it looks like I was criticizing Drayton but I wasn't trying to. But if I were, please don't go to the he can't compete card when he goes out of his way to sign contracts based on sentimentality. No one should be arguing he can't compete while Bagwell's contract is still on the books.

[NJRocket]

I don't know if there is a better option for an owner out there or not. I dont think a guy like Tilman Fertitta would be any better of an owner than Matress Mac or GWB Sr for that matter.

We have had success with Drayton despite him not swinging the biggest mickey at the winter meetings. I think part of our success has to be attributed to Hun's ability to GM...part to our scouts and their ability to find diamonds in the rough...and part to Drayton's willingness to pull the trigger on a June-July deal that helps us almost get to the promised land. I guess I just have a hard time believing that he is making any less (or losing any more) than anyone else outside of the yanks, bosox,mets, O's or Dodgers.

This year's trading deadline and more importantly, this offseason, is going to be very telling...because even with another yr under their belts, I dont see the young guys that we are toting out there (bidge and berk excluded) making us contenders next year either.

[Drewdog]

I am soooooooooo sick and tired of Drayton whining about how he fu#king loses money each and every year. Why do you own the team Drayton? If you are losing so much damn money, then sell it!

My guess is the guy is lying. A smart Billionaire businessman like DMC wouldnt be involved in something that is netting a loss for him year-in and year-out. Just doesnt make smart business or financial sense to lose money every year.

Liar Liar pants on fire!

:mad:

[NJRocket]

Originally posted by Drewdog

. A smart Billionaire businessman like DMC wouldnt be involved in something that is netting a loss for him year-in and year-out. Just doesnt make smart business or financial sense to lose money every year.



logic would tell me that as well....its hard to believe...UNLESS he uses the Astros loss as a write off on his other capital gains each year...in which case, he really shouldnt own the team...but i cant see that being the case.

[Rocketman95]

Originally posted by NJRocket
This year's trading deadline and more importantly, this offseason, is going to be very telling...because even with another yr under their belts, I dont see the young guys that we are toting out there (bidge and berk excluded) making us contenders next year either.

I will be the first to criticize him if he doesn't open up the wallet this offseason.

[Drewdog]

Originally posted by NJRocket
logic would tell me that as well....its hard to believe...UNLESS he uses the Astros loss as a write off on his other capital gains each year...in which case, he really shouldnt own the team...but i cant see that being the case.

Exactly. It makes no sense whatsoever..... I wish someone would investigate this further, but Im sure they play with numbers so it looks like a loss. I wonder how much he pays his accountant?

[nycrocket]

Originally posted by NJRocket
UNLESS he uses the Astros loss as a write off

Bingo.

[superden]

He will only say that he has lost a bunch of money. Even last season when the Astros drew a record 3.2 million fans, McLane said he lost around $8 million.

i remember right after last season he reported that he lost $4 million.... all of the sudden it is 8?! :confused:

[Rocketman95]

I'd like to see a link with a direct quote from McLane saying he lost that much. Not saying he didn't, but if I were a journalist bashing someone, I'd use direct quotes if they were available to me.

[Drewdog]

Originally posted by Rocketman95
I'd like to see a link with a direct quote from McLane saying he lost that much. Not saying he didn't, but if I were a journalist bashing someone, I'd use direct quotes if they were available to me.

Here you go.....

http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/0717/1406552.html

"We've got a $64.7 million payroll. And based on that $64.7 million payroll, we're going to lose about $14.5 million this season (after depreciation and amortization are figured, the actual cash loss will be around $5 million).''

[Rocketman95]

Originally posted by Drewdog
Here you go.....

http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/0717/1406552.html

"We've got a $64.7 million payroll. And based on that $64.7 million payroll, we're going to lose about $14.5 million this season (after depreciation and amortization are figured, the actual cash loss will be around $5 million).''

That was three years ago.

Regardless, with the criticims leveled against McLane, you'd think that the product on the field is comparable to the Royals or Tigers. We've been lucky enough in the past decade to have two seasons where we weren't in the playoffs or in contention for the post-season. His payroll is very comparable to the market size of Houston.

[NJRocket]

Originally posted by Drewdog
(after depreciation and ).''[/I]


depreciation?????

[Drewdog]

Originally posted by Rocketman95
That was three years ago.

It may be 3 years old, but it sounds like the same song he is singing today. no?

[Rocketman95]

Originally posted by Drewdog
It may be 3 years old, but it sounds like the same song he is singing today. no?

I don't know...I was asking where he specifically said he lost $4 or $8 million this year.

Again, to me, this doesn't matter. I seriously doubt he's making a ton of money. If anything, he's probably closer to breaking even on the team. What matters to me is that during the last decade of his tenure as owner, we've been lucky enough to have eight seasons of highly competitive baseball.

I just reread that article...is there a more arrogant sportswriter than Richard Justice? My God he's an ass.

[chrisjent]

Even if McLane's facts are true (which we'll likely never know) one thing is never mentioned...

Even if he lost, oh, let's say $10 million each and every year, he'd still come out waaaay ahead in the end based upon the franchise's increase in value since his initial purchase.

[Rocketman95]

Originally posted by chrisjent
Even if McLane's facts are true (which we'll likely never know) one thing is never mentioned...

Even if he lost, oh, let's say $10 million each and every year, he'd still come out waaaay ahead in the end based upon the franchise's increase in value since his initial purchase.

But he doesn't see that value until he sells the team. I have a baseball card worth $5k, that doesn't mean I have $5k to blow on something right now.

[RIET]

Originally posted by Rocketman95
What matters to me is that during the last decade of his tenure as owner, we've been lucky enough to have eight seasons of highly competitive baseball.

When will people admit it was through the pure genius of Gerry Hunsicker, who in my opinion was the best sports executive this city has ever had.

He got the better end of almost every trade he made - which is not only rare but almost statistically impossible.

And now that Hunsicker is no longer here making the "mini" deals that we've taken for granted, the Astros are sinking like a heavy anchor.

McLane can point to past history but that's when he had one of the best in the business running the ship.

The fact he can't fully appreciate this and recognize it for what it is demonstrates his ignorance.

[bigboymumu]

Like I said before, Drayton is FULL OF ^&*$. The guy is playing accounting games. I've seen others do it, heck I do it. HE IS NOT LOSING MONEY. You can't lose money and increase the value of your company (longterm).

[Rocketman95]

Originally posted by RIET
When will people admit it was through the pure genius of Gerry Hunsicker, who in my opinion was the best sports executive this city has ever had.

He got the better end of almost every trade he made - which is not only rare but almost statistically impossible.

And now that Hunsicker is no longer here making the "mini" deals that we've taken for granted, the Astros are sinking like a heavy anchor.

McLane can point to past history but that's when he had one of the best in the business running the ship.

The fact he can't fully appreciate this and recognize it for what it is demonstrates his ignorance.

I never said McLane was the only reason we were good, or even that he had a major hand in any of the moves that were made by Hunsicker. The only fact I'm stating is that during the last decade while Drayton's been the owner, we've been highly competitive. Whether he's losing or making money, all I care about as an Astros' fan is that.

Once we become the Royals or the Tigers, we'll finally have a reason to bitch and moan.

[xiki]

I was appalled that Boros punked DMc so badly over Beltran. After all, DMc is one of the premier business people in America. Therefore, I wonder if a little collusion was involved. That is, McLane let himself be worked thereby not having to pay the big bucks for CB while looking like he had made the gallant effort.

As for Kent, I was, and remain, glad he was not paid 9mil for this season.

What a shame that the Astros aren't good enough to be contenders nor bad enough to blow all the way up.

[bigboymumu]

Originally posted by xiki
I was appalled that Boros punked DMc so badly over Beltran. After all, DMc is one of the premier business people in America. Therefore, I wonder if a little collusion was involved. That is, McLane let himself be worked thereby not having to pay the big bucks for CB while looking like he had made the gallant effort.

As for Kent, I was, and remain, glad he was not paid 9mil for this season.

What a shame that the Astros aren't good enough to be contenders nor bad enough to blow all the way up.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rocketman95]

Originally posted by xiki
ITherefore, I wonder if a little collusion was involved. That is, McLane let himself be worked thereby not having to pay the big bucks for CB while looking like he had made the gallant effort.

Wow, just wow.

Just when I thought I'd read it all.

[Mr. Clutch]

Originally posted by NJRocket
And despite an additional $12 million to $15 million a year in local television revenue, he doesn't plan to raise the payroll. He is going to run the Astros like any other business.

Dunno about you guys, but thats not really what I want to hear.

Nope I don't either. But it doesn't bother me that he has to keep the payroll at a certain level. That's the reality of baseball's system. The A's and Marlins have had success despite cutting payroll.

What bothers me is the botched decision making. McLane's decisions were pretty stupid this past offseason.

[Drewdog]

[QUOTE=Rocketman95]I don't know...I was asking where he specifically said he lost $4 or $8 million this year.[QUOTE]

My bad. I misread what you said.

[TheFreak]

I was appalled that Boros punked DMc so badly over Beltran. After all, DMc is one of the premier business people in America. Therefore, I wonder if a little collusion was involved. That is, McLane let himself be worked thereby not having to pay the big bucks for CB while looking like he had made the gallant effort.

I've thought about this too but was afraid to post it here.

[Rocketman95]

My bad. I misread what you said.

No prob.

[Rocketman95]

I've thought about this too but was afraid to post it here.

I'd be afraid too. Early signs of mental illness. :D