Whatcha gonna do Zimbabwe?

[basso]

this guy's looking more and more like Pol Pot...of course, he'll be seen as a Chavez like hero to some, even as he goes on murdering and starving his own people. where are the cies of outrage? i guess since no koras were inadvertently peed upon while the cities were being depopulated amnesty international can't be bothered to take notice...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/06/06/wzim06.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/06/06/ixhome.html

--
Mugabe's bulldozers push people back to land
By David Blair in Johannesburg
(Filed: 06/06/2005)

President Robert Mugabe's onslaught against Zimbabwe's cities has escalated to claim new targets, with white-owned factories and family homes being demolished in a campaign that has left 200,000 people homeless.

Across the country, Mr Mugabe is destroying large areas of heaving townships and prosperous industrial areas alike.
Earthmovers destroy a house outside of Harare
Virtually all the areas demolished voted for the opposition MDC Party in the last elections

The aim of this brutal campaign is, says the official media, to depopulate urban areas and force people back to the "rural home".

Chris Viljoen and his wife, Elsie, were still inside their five-bedroom house when a bulldozer began reducing it to rubble. The white couple live in the industrial zone of the capital, Harare.

Next door was a 70-acre site filled with 24 factories and workshops. Bulldozers spent last week razing this area, destroying all but nine businesses that employed about 1,000 people in a country suffering mass unemployment and economic crisis.

"My wife is still in a hell of a state," said Mr Viljoen, 55. "She's been having continuous nightmares."

Last Tuesday, police told Mr Viljoen, a mechanic, that his family's home would be demolished and gave him 24 hours to move out. They claimed that the property on Seke Road was "illegal".

In fact, the home is 30 years old and the owner, from whom Mr Viljoen rents the house, holds legal title deeds. None of this appeared to matter.

"The officer said 'Get yourself out of there'. I said 'You can't do that' and he said 'If you argue about it, we'll put you in jail'," said Mr Viljoen.

The couple sent their 10-year-old twins, Keith and Kevin, to stay with friends and began removing furniture.

They were still trying to dislodge fitted wardrobes and kitchen surfaces when police arrived and their bulldozer started work at 6.30am last Wednesday.

Mrs Viljoen, 38, was in the kitchen as the building began collapsing around her. She ran outside as her home was systematically demolished and then flattened.

The bulldozer also destroyed the family's business. It wrecked Mr Viljoen's car workshop next door to the house.

The Viljoens are now living in one room in a backpacker lodge.

"I've got nothing left in this country," said Mr Viljoen. "If I could, I would get up and leave tomorrow."

Earlier, bulldozers had begun wrecking the adjacent industrial area. Ian Lawson, the owner, was assured by a senior police officer that the site would be spared.

But at 6am last Tuesday, 10 lorries filled with police arrived and the destruction began.

"The police officer said to me 'Why are you running for help? No one can help you now. Not even God can help you. We are going to destroy this place'," said Mr Lawson, 60.

Fifteen factories and workshops were then reduced to heaps of rubble. Mr Lawson, whose family bought the site in 1952, fled to Britain after being threatened by police.

"All those factories were my pension. I said to my wife we can retire now and live on the rentals. Now everything has gone. I don't know what to do. Everything is wrecked," he said.

Across Zimbabwe, the United Nations estimates that 200,000 people have lost their homes, with the poorest townships bearing the brunt of Mr Mugabe's onslaught. "The vast majority are homeless in the streets," said Miloon Kothari, the UN's housing representative. He added that "mass evictions" were creating a "new kind of apartheid where the rich and the poor are being segregated".

Virtually all the areas singled out for demolition voted for the opposition Movement for Democratic Change in the last elections. The MDC says that Mr Mugabe ordered the destruction as a deliberate reprisal. But the regime is also seeking to depopulate the cities, driving people into the countryside where the MDC is virtually non-existent and the ruling Zanu-PF Party dominates.

The Herald, the official daily newspaper, urged "urbanites" to go "back to the rural home, to reconnect with one's roots and earn an honest living from the soil our government repossessed under the land reform programme".

[pirc1]

Not much you can do when idiots are ruling a country. China experienced this for about 30 years during the Mao period. Just hope he dies quickly and a competent leader takes over.

[basso]

Originally posted by pirc1
Not much you can do when idiots are ruling a country. China experienced this for about 30 years during the Mao period. Just hope he dies quickly and a competent leader takes over.

sure there is, unfortunately no one in the rest of the world, or the UN, cares. and zimbabwe is hardly china, or even iraq for that matter.

[pirc1]

Originally posted by basso
sure there is, unfortunately no one in the rest of the world, or the UN, cares. and zimbabwe is hardly china, or even iraq for that matter.

Guess you are talking about military invasion. Why would any country wan to do that? There is absutely nothing good that could come out of it.

[waran007]

Originally posted by basso
sure there is, unfortunately no one in the rest of the world, or the UN, cares. and zimbabwe is hardly china, or even iraq for that matter.

This is an ongoing problem with numerous African countries. Humanitarian Aid is being given to them by the truckloads but no one seems to care that their leaders are corrupt. There's no real incentive to working a "regime-change" in any these nations led by wack-jobs, at least for the US, EU and other powers. Until there is government reform in some of these nations, that aid will never be properly distributed.
Not to mention, when a country actually tries to formulate a sane democratic government on their own, they never get recognized, case-in-point being Somaliland (the northern part of Somalia which has been governing itself democratically for years, despite the violent bedlam in the rest of the country).

[basso]

Originally posted by pirc1
Guess you are talking about military invasion. Why would any country wan to do that? There is absutely nothing good that could come out of it.

surely there's room for a response somewhere between pretending the problem doesn't exist and invading. this would be the perfect opportunity for the UN to demonstrate it still has a purpose, unfortunately, like it darfur, if africans are killing africans, no one in turtle bay seems to give a damn.

[wouldabeen23]

where are the cies of outrage? i guess since no koras were inadvertently peed upon while the cities were being depopulated amnesty international can't be bothered to take notice...

But the U.S. and the chicken-hawk-express Admin does? Words, nothing but rhetoric--Basso, you are using a liberal argument to very little effect.

Funny that you are incorporating the same arguments that more Liberal and Moderate posters on this board were saying about Darfur and why there wasn't "outrage" and calls for invasion from the Administration on the genocide in The Sudan...

Hey, I AGREE with you, the UN is far to hamstrung and cautious sometimes...that is why we have a president who says Bring-it-on, we have to do what's RIGHT, right? We don't need a world consensus to do the morally RIGHT thing.

Unfortunately we don't have the wherewithal, as I believe SamFisher put it, to invade Liechtenstein.

[SamFisher]

basso, why do you continually come to a pro-basketball message board in the off-season, and shriek "Where is the outrage?" over various topics as if you're exposing some sort of moral dereliction, which, predictably only goes one way.

I'm going to give you an answer: the answer is that the outrage is probably somewhere other than on a basketball message board in the off-season.

That doesn't mean that people want to have Robert Mugabe over for dinner.

[basso]

Originally posted by wouldabeen23
But the U.S. and the chicken-hawk-express Admin does? Words, nothing but rhetoric--Basso, you are using a liberal argument to very little effect.

Funny that you are incorporating the same arguments that more Liberal and Moderate posters on this board were saying about Darfur and why there wasn't "outrage" and calls for invasion from the Administration on the genocide in The Sudan...

Hey, I AGREE with you, the UN is far to hamstrung and cautious sometimes...that is why we have a president who says Bring-it-on, we have to do what's RIGHT, right? We don't need a world consensus to do the morally RIGHT thing.

Unfortunately we don't have the wherewithal, as I believe SamFisher put it, to invade Liechtenstein.

not sure why this has to be a liberal/ conservative fight- no one is doing anything, not just the US. btw, if you'll use the handy search function, you can find the several threads i've started about darfur, no one of which is particularly easy on the admin.

[basso]

Originally posted by SamFisher
basso, why do you continually come to a pro-basketball message board in the off-season, and shriek "Where is the outrage?" over various topics as if you're exposing some sort of moral dereliction, which, predictably only goes one way.

I'm going to give you an answer: the answer is that the outrage is probably somewhere other than on a basketball message board in the off-season.

That doesn't mean that people want to have Robert Mugabe over for dinner.

is there something you'd rather debate on the d&d, perhaps the inability of any team other than the stockton/malone jazz to effectively run the pick and roll?

[wouldabeen23]

Originally posted by basso
not sure why this has to be a liberal/ conservative fight- no one is doing anything, not just the US. btw, if you'll use the handy search function, you can find the several threads i've started about darfur, no one of which is particularly easy on the admin.

You are right, I will give you that as I do recall seeing them, but your tone suggests that you are taking shots at the other side of the isle for not standing up and denouncing world atrocities.

[SamFisher]

Originally posted by basso
is there something you'd rather debate on the d&d, perhaps the inability of any team other than the stockton/malone jazz to effectively run the pick and roll?

What's to discuss? Outrage or lack thereof? That seems like your focus, so fine, I find him and his behavior outrageous.

[basso]

Originally posted by SamFisher
What's to discuss? Outrage or lack thereof? That seems like your focus, so fine, I find him and his behavior outrageous.

why the outrage over my outrage?

[basso]

Originally posted by wouldabeen23
You are right, I will give you that as I do recall seeing them, but your tone suggests that you are taking shots at the other side of the isle for not standing up and denouncing world atrocities.

i'm taking shots at everybody, but the hypocrisy of amnestry in this instance is pretty striking. and, btw, i didn't think they were supposed to be on one side or the other.

[AntiSonic]

http://www.varesemagazine.com/foto/HOGAN.7.jpg

Well let me tell you something Mean Gene; this cat Mugabe's been runnin' around, tearing down people's houses and redistributing land dishing out his own brand of justice. Thousands upon thousands of Hulkamaniacs have been left homeless, brother. Well let me tell you something, brother, it's gonna end tonight! Me and my main man Duggan here came to liberate the people of Zimbabwe and in that cage I'm going to be judge, jury, and executioner.

SO WHATCHA GONNA DO MUGABE, WHEN HULK HOGAN, THE 24-INCH PYTHONS, AND HACKSAW JIM DUGGAN RUN WILD ON YOU?!

[SamFisher]

Originally posted by basso
why the outrage over my outrage?

nobody's outraged over your outrage, it's just that you assume lack of outrage when there isn't and then use it as an indictment. that's not outrageous, though it is a mild irritant.

[Zion]

Originally posted by basso
i'm taking shots at everybody, but the hypocrisy of amnestry in this instance is pretty striking. and, btw, i didn't think they were supposed to be on one side or the other.

What Hypocrisy? Are you suggesting that Ammesty International has not condemned these acts?

[flamingmoe]

Originally posted by basso
where are the cies of outrage? i guess since no koras were inadvertently peed upon while the cities were being depopulated amnesty international can't be bothered to take notice...



Amnesty International has a report on Zimbabwe, just like they do on the U.S. and 149 other countries. If you bothered to actually read their report, you would know that. But I guess bashing the source of criticism of the U.S. is easier.

http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/zwe-summary-eng

[gifford1967]

this guy's looking more and more like Pol Pot...of course, he'll be seen as a Chavez like hero to some


Extremely weak liberal call out.

Check




Even as he goes on murdering and starving his own people. where are the cies of outrage?


Outrage over the lack of outrage.

Check


i guess since no koras were inadvertently peed upon while the cities were being depopulated amnesty international can't be bothered to take notice...





Originally posted by flamingmoe
Amnesty International has a report on Zimbabwe, just like they do on the U.S. and 149 other countries. If you bothered to actually read their report, you would know that. But I guess bashing the source of criticism of the U.S. is easier.

http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/zwe-summary-eng

Basso pwned.

Check

[basso]

Originally posted by gifford1967

Basso pwned.

cool, i'm pwned, while the people of zimbabwe are pawns and SOL.

[gifford1967]

Originally posted by basso
cool, i'm pwned, while the people of zimbabwe are pawns and SOL.


Yes Basso I'm sure you had only the best interest of the people of Zimbabwe in mind when you started a thread about their plight designed to antagonize.

You treated the situation like a juvenile game and you were met in kind.

If your support for global human rights goes beyond posting on this message board, you don't get too worked up about pathetic, feigned outrage.

[basso]

Don't walk away, ripping out the roots of love: Toni Childs (http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playlistId=7310435&selectedItemId=7310405)

--
what you gonna do zimbabwae
what you gonna do zimbabwae

zimbabwae is a man who tried
to teach his children what was right
but then there came a time when war
split the family from inside
he said no fighting no more

what you gonna do zimbabwae
what you gonna do zimbabwae

the old man sits and shakes his head
while the multitudes insist
war is the cause of unity
with just one thought there could be peace
men gathered in silence the same

can there be some peace on earth
can there be a love
greater than the world we see
greater than us all
it's the last station home
it's the last station home

you ran your heart in those days
when no-one could see days
you want to run in the wind
you want to go back inside
see no more crime in your lifetime
zimbabwae, zimbabwae
no more crime in your lifetime
zimbabwae, zimbabwae

[Sishir Chang]

Here's a suggestion Basso.

The Pres. in his second innaugaral speech talked about "Spreading democracy everywhere." Not just the Middle East or North Korea, everywhere. Apparently the Admin. has forgotten about Zimbabwe so perhaps you would be better served by writing a letter to the President, your Senator, your Rep., Donald Rumsfeld and Condaleeza Rice demanding they live up to the rhetoric of the second innaugural.

You will find this far more productive than complaining to Amnesty International or the UN and especially to Clutch BBS since none of those groups can unilaterally impose sanctions and more importantly none of those groups have a military capable of doing something about it.

Just a helpful suggestion.

[Rashmon]

What rhymes with basso?

[SWTsig]

Originally posted by Rashmon
What rhymes with basso?

gasso!!!


anyways.... it's Africa, that's why nobody cares. that continent is so incredibly f***ed up, why even bother. if they want to kill themselves, let em. save a huge military invasion, it's a lost cause over there.

sad but true.

[Uprising]

Originally posted by basso
surely there's room for a response somewhere between pretending the problem doesn't exist and invading. this would be the perfect opportunity for the UN to demonstrate it still has a purpose, unfortunately, like it darfur, if africans are killing africans, no one in turtle bay seems to give a damn.

The UN is a joke. It's sad...

[SamFisher]

Originally posted by Uprising
The UN is a joke. It's sad...

yes, if they simply passed a resolution everything would be better.

[Sishir Chang]

Originally posted by SWTsig
anyways.... it's Africa, that's why nobody cares. that continent is so incredibly f***ed up, why even bother. if they want to kill themselves, let em. save a huge military invasion, it's a lost cause over there.

sad but true.

I was hearing an NPR sotry about Africa the other day and apparently there are a lot of places in Africa that are doing surprisingly well.

[pippendagimp]

Originally posted by SWTsig
gasso!!!


anyways.... it's Africa, that's why nobody cares. that continent is so incredibly f***ed up, why even bother. if they want to kill themselves, let em. save a huge military invasion, it's a lost cause over there.

sad but true.

It's f***ed up because European powers carved up and began liquidating the riches of every last inch of it (except for Ethiopia) by the middle of the 1800's. And through the IMF and World Bank, the West was able to keep 50 odd countries there in perpetual enslavement during the 1900's. Mugabe has now been in power for 25 years. It was only after he told the IMF to f*#k off a few years ago that we have been hearing jackshht about his regime from the western media now. Before that, when he was our buddy and providing us with tobacco, cotton, corn, etc etc, everything was A-Okay. His decision to seize white farms and redistribute them to blacks was in reaction to the usury the IMF was exacting on Zimbabwe. It turned out to be a really stupid decision on his part of course, because once those farmers left (along with all their farm equipment and know-how) his country could suddenly not produce enough food to sustain itself. But the mass starvation and famine in Zimbabwe was clearly caused by the West, who placed mass sanctions (a la Iraq) on the country and killed the Zimbabwe currency in the process. Devalued currency = no ability to buy food from anyone.

The fact of the matter is that Africa has HUGE and VAST natural resources that all industrialized nations seriously covet. West Africa will likely be the largest source of oil to the US by the end of this decade. Gold from South Africa, Botswana and Zimbabwe, copper from Zambia, cocoa from the Ivory Coast. These are all the world leaders in production. So a lot of people do care. In fact, Zimbabwe's new best friend the last few years all of a sudden is now China. Zimbabwe supplies them with among many commodities, much needed sugar. And China provides aircraft, technology, loans, etc. But anyways, getting back to how f***ed up Africa is, you cannot ignore the fact that much of it is due directly to American and European involvement. Whether it was the Belgians coming in and in classic conquer and divide textbook fashion designating tall, fair skinned Rwandans as Tootsies and the rest of the population as Hutu's (which led to inevitable civil war). Or McNamara going in and privitizing every last drop of drinking water he could get his greedy little paws on. To admit that we are indeed just letting them kill each other now after we've been raping their land and people for centuries is uhh.....sad but true.

[Zion]

Originally posted by SWTsig
gasso!!!


anyways.... it's Africa, that's why nobody cares. that continent is so incredibly f***ed up, why even bother. if they want to kill themselves, let em. save a huge military invasion, it's a lost cause over there.

sad but true.

Africa is not a country. There are plenty of countries in Africa that are on the right track and with a little help could completely turn things around.

Of course you won't hear this on CNN or FOX because it's not good for their ratings. They would much rather report about the countries that embroiled in civil wars and corruption scandals.