Cubs @ Astros

[Castor27]

All game talk goes in here. Please do not give play by play. If you need play by play go to CBS, ESPN, or Yahoo.

Pitching Proabables:

4-29 Greg Maddux (0-1, 4.50) vs. Roger Clemens (1-0, 0.32) 7:05 on FSSW

4-30 Kerry Wood (1-1, 5.79) vs. Brandon Backe(1-1, 6.17) 6:05 no TV

5-1 Mark Prior (3-0, 0.95) vs. Roy Oswalt (3-2, 3.25) 1:05 on KNWS

[fya]

L
L
L

[MadMax]

WWW

[A-Train]

Cubs games just won't be the same without Sosa...he was probably the most fun to heckle of any rival player...

[Rocketball]

Originally posted by MadMax
WWW

Don't you have to score to get a "W"?

[DaDakota]

WWW

[MadMax]

Originally posted by DaDakota
WWW

look at you!!!! i'm crying a little over here, DD. just a little!! so proud of my boy!

[SamCassell]

Somehow, Roger is going to throw a no-no through 7 and still lose this game, 0 to -1.

I know, I know, negative runs have never been scored before, but I have faith in this team! ;)

[SamCassell]

Originally posted by DaDakota
WWW
Sounds like an ideal wager for a sig bet!

[kaleidosky]

W
W
L

[Saint Louis]

Since the Astros only win at home this year, they should win at least two or even sweep the Cubs. If the games were at Wrigley, they would get shut out.

Hmm, Astros don't win on the road, but are tough at home. Rockets shoot better on the road but have problems at TC. Maybe they could share with each other what they do best to solve the others ailments.

[ima_drummer2k]

L 1-0
L 1-0
L 1-0

[arkoe]

If we don't score a run for Clemens tonight, I'm going to cry. We can lose, I don't care, but if we get shutout I will majorly be pissed.

[Phillyrocket]

L 1-0
L 2-1 (Backe with an RBI)
L 1-0

[msn]

Originally posted by Phillyrocket
L 2-1 (Backe with an RBI)

lol

[nycrocket]

Originally posted by SamCassell
Somehow, Roger is going to throw a no-no through 7 and still lose this game, 0 to -1.

I know, I know, negative runs have never been scored before, but I have faith in this team! ;)

Ausmus will probably hit his only home run of the season and run the bases in reverse.

[Lil Francis]

LLL

Game 1 (3-1)
Games 2 (7-2)
Game 3 (4-0) Oswalt ejected for hitting Mike Barrett :D

[torque]

lots of optimism going around. wooooo i love the ASTROS SPIRIT!!

no wonder we suck at home, our fans have given up after 20 games.
:rolleyes:

[Groogrux]

Originally posted by torque
no wonder we suck at home, our fans have given up after 20 games.
:rolleyes:

We're actually not bad at home. :)

WWW

[Random.]

We actually give Clemens an early lead and he finally shows he is mortal. Our luck is not good lately.

[Surfguy]

I already see a loss coming yet again. It is time for the Astros bats to go cold again.

[Random.]

Trying for home there was odd, I don't think they could have made that into a double play.

[Surfguy]

Bagwell hit a homer? :mad:

Don't ***** with me and my predictions, Ashos!

[RocketManJosh]

The Astros NEED this game bad to get back on track. Time to get some momentum.

I think watching the Rox last night has Roger depressed like the rest of us .. I mean 2 runs ... He is human today :(

[Surfguy]

This one is all on Clemens. He just gave up his 3rd earned run. The Astros can't do a f-ing thing right it seems...which is why I'm so damn pissed off.

[Nick]

Originally posted by Surfguy
This one is all on Clemens. He just gave up his 3rd earned run. The Astros can't do a f-ing thing right it seems...which is why I'm so damn pissed off.

Any time you get at least 6IP and 3 ER, it is not ALL on your starting pitcher... that's why its the definition of a quality start.

This is still on the hitters.

[Random.]

Originally posted by Nick
Any time you get at least 6IP and 3 ER, it is not ALL on your starting pitcher... that's why its the definition of a quality start.

This is still on the hitters.

About to say the same thing.

They are taking Maddux out now, so maybe we can get something going. Cubs relievers are awful.

[Surfguy]

Originally posted by Nick
Any time you get at least 6IP and 3 ER, it is not ALL on your starting pitcher... that's why its the definition of a quality start.

This is still on the hitters.

Normally, I would agree with you. But, this is Roger Clemens and he has gotten squat for run support from this team so far this season. It's like Pettitte said...they have to be pitching a shut-out if are guys can't score as one run could be the difference. In this case, two runs for Roger is like a x-mas present normally except Clemens has given up 3 runs. But, it's not over yet...I guess.

[Nick]

Originally posted by Surfguy
Normally, I would agree with you. But, this is Roger Clemens and he has gotten squat for run support from this team so far this season. It's like Pettitte said...they have to be pitching a shut-out if are guys can't score as one run could be the difference. In this case, two runs for Roger is like a x-mas present normally except Clemens has given up 3 runs. But, it's not over yet...I guess.

This is baseball... they should all know that nothing is a given from game to game, and in the end... statistically... it all evens out.

What happened to Roger was truly historic... and never been seen before. You had to expect that he'd give up at least 2 or 3 runs eventually, as well as his team would score for him eventually.

The bottom line is that we've scored only 2 runs tonight. I don't care what we scored in the 100 games before that, but 2 runs is normally not enough to win you games on any given night, whereas allowing 3ER or less in 6 innings IS normally enough to get you a win on any given night.

[BSW]

That was an awesome throw by Taveras.

I really like how our outfield will be when Berkman returns.

Great catch by Lane and now a great throw out at the plate by Taveras.

[Trader_Jorge]

Guys, let me save all of you about 300 hours of your life. This team sucks. There is no need to watch them the rest of the season.

When you lose your best player (Beltran), your top RBI guy (Kent), and arguably your best batter (Berkman -- albeit not for the whole season), and replace them with NOTHING in the order, you are not a contender. It's pretty clear that the owner and/or GM screwed the pooch badly this offseason. At this point, who can argue with that? Seriously. The team is batting .250 right now and only the Pirates have fewer homeruns. We have 12 (now 13) homers and play our home games in MINUTE MAID PARK. How sad is that?

[Nick]

Originally posted by Trader_Jorge
Guys, let me save all of you about 300 hours of your life. This team sucks. There is no need to watch them the rest of the season.

So why are you posting? This actually takes more effort than watching tv.

;)

[BSW]

You must be watching the game....since that is pretty much what the Cubs announcers said word for word.

Even though they might not be playing well if you are a TRUE fan you will still watch.

[Trader_Jorge]

Originally posted by BSW
You must be watching the game....since that is pretty much what the Cubs announcers said word for word.

Even though they might not be playing well if you are a TRUE fan you will still watch.

I actually was not watching the game, although it comes as no surprise that my insights are similar to those who have vast experience with the game of baseball.

[Nick]

Originally posted by Trader_Jorge
I actually was not watching the game, although it comes as no surprise that my insights are similar to those who have vast experience with the game of baseball.

Yes.... you must be proud to be the spitting image of Bob Brenly.

[RocketManJosh]

This team is definitely hard to watch right now ... Nothing is going right.

Its so hard to see this happening to the Stros because they've had so much success in recent memory. It's been a while since we've had a team this poor. Let's hope Lance can bring some fire and it will be contageous.

[Nick]

Originally posted by RocketManJosh
This team is definitely hard to watch right now ... Nothing is going right.

I found them to be actually worse (and more frustrating) to watch last season, before they went on the big run, because you expected so much more out of that stacked lineup... and they hit awfully.


This lineup hits awful too... but you don't expect as much.

[Oski2005]

Originally posted by BSW
You must be watching the game....since that is pretty much what the Cubs announcers said word for word.

Did they really say that? They should replay that constantly in the clubhouse.

[Oski2005]

I just looked over the boxscore an noticed that Clemens had to 2 hits. What more can this man do before the rest of the team is absolutely ashamed of their performance?

[RKMAN]

Originally posted by BSW
You must be watching the game....since that is pretty much what the Cubs announcers said word for word.

Even though they might not be playing well if you are a TRUE fan you will still watch.

Those assholes said that about us?? They should look at their sorry ass whining quitters first. Steve Stone is a wise man.

[Saint Louis]

I think the Astros should bust out the old rainbow uniforms. They remind of the Astros of old; great pitching and no hitting.

[fya]

Originally posted by Oski2005
What more can this man do before the rest of the team is absolutely ashamed of their performance?

Beg for a new owner?

[Saint Louis]

Beg for a new owner?

Might we honestly have been better keeping McMullen?

[NJRocket]

Originally posted by Nick
I found them to be actually worse (and more frustrating) to watch last season, before they went on the big run, because you expected so much more out of that stacked lineup... and they hit awfully.


This lineup hits awful too... but you don't expect as much.


See, I found it easier to watch last year because you had a lineup that was overdue to produce and start winning. I watched the games saying"ok, this is where we explode". This year, we don't have that...I sit and watch the games hoping that everything lines up exactly right so that we can scratch out some runs and steal a win.

[Nick]

Originally posted by NJRocket
See, I found it easier to watch last year because you had a lineup that was overdue to produce and start winning. I watched the games saying"ok, this is where we explode". This year, we don't have that...I sit and watch the games hoping that everything lines up exactly right so that we can scratch out some runs and steal a win.

Just because they were "overdue" never meant it was a guarantee to happen... thus, I was terribly frustrated last year.

If they don't go on a miraculous run, and make the playoffs, last year is an utter failure and the Astros would have been the biggest dissapointment in baseball. How do you like that hanging over your franchise? Also, you just probably got your last look at a cy-young award winner who is only just the greatest living pitcher still playing.

There was a great level of doubt haning over last year's squad around mid-season, and if they hadn't turned it around, all bets would have been off in terms of the long term future of this franchise (Beltran would have been cheaper, but Drayton likely wouldn't have seen the value in even pursuing him because of his .258 average... Roy and Lance may have been wondering if they have a better chance to win elsewhere.... etc. etc. etc.).

This year, nobody is expecting them to even make the playoffs... which makes each time this team produces that much more sweeter, and each time they fail that much more easier to take, since there can't be the expectations on this club that was there last year.

[Phillyrocket]

Originally posted by Nick
This year, nobody is expecting them to even make the playoffs... which makes each time this team produces that much more sweeter, and each time they fail that much more easier to take, since there can't be the expectations on this club that was there last year.

Why can't there be the same expectations? What happened to "this is the same team as we had last year just minus Kent?" Kent was a huuugggeee loss. Without him and Berkman our lineup is a joke, period. I mean c'mon two aging superstars, an inconsistent 3B and SS, one of the most offensively inept players in the game, (Ausmus), and a bunch of kids.

I said it before the season began and its worth repeating, the owner f##ked up. We should have done one of two things.

A) put all of our eggs in one basket and just gone for it this year, which means bring Kent back, bring Clemens back, and if you couldn't get Beltran back then so be it, be aggressive trade Burke and whoever for a Soriano. I don't want to hear about trading away the future, who cares? The Astros haven't won jack in 40+ years! Take a damn risk!

B) Say the hell with it, go with a youth movement, do not bring back Clemens, Kent, or Biggio. Resign Oswalt and Berkman to long term deals and let all the kids play. Pinch all the pennies you want, get a top draft pick, save money for a good young free agent or two next year.

So what did the Astros do? They split the difference, brought back Clemens and Biggio, let Kent walk and let a bunch of the kids play. What's that going to get us? No top draft pick, no money saved and no playoffs.

A wasted season is much more frustrating to me then watching a great lineup struggling.

[lalala902102001]

Would I spend a Saturday evening watching two awful baseball team battling for the fourth place in the division?

Hell no.

[rikesh316]

Willy T better be the leadoff hitter when AE comes backs because for the second straight game he got on baseball to lead off 1st and scored. Knowing Phil, he probley put AE back at leadoff.

[kaleidosky]

Originally posted by Phillyrocket
--A bunch of junk--


REgardless of what you think, why keep repeating the same crap? The season started. Offseason is over. Get over whatever you didn't like and look forward.

[bigboymumu]

Biggio has really fallen off at the plate.

[rikesh316]

He can't hit or field, made another error today.

[msn]

Good Lord, people! After sampling a few whines here, I went to Yahoo! to check out the box and see how bad loss #7 actually was.

News Flash: The Astros won the game.
News Flash II: The Astros scored seven runs.
News Flassh III: The Astros hit Kerry Wood hard. (ain't it nice they no longer make him look like Bob Gibson while everyone else is pounding him?)

Also nice to see, now that Bagwell has strung a few hits together, all the haters turn their attention to Biggio. Is it possible to be a consistent and solid fan of a team but bandwagon its players?

[adeelsiddiqui]

Originally posted by msn

Also nice to see, now that Bagwell has strung a few hits together, all the haters turn their attention to Biggio. Is it possible to be a consistent and solid fan of a team but bandwagon its players?


thats the problem, one hits, the other sucks.

i have nothin agianst biggs, but bagwell, tsk.

[rikesh316]

WTF is wrong with Phil Garner.

Todays lineup
W. Taveras cf
C. Biggio 2b
J. Bagwell 1b
M. Lamb lf 0
J. Lane rf
M. Ensberg
A. Everett
R. Chavez c
R. Oswalt p

No Jose Vizcanio? He has .409 BA, 2 HR vs. Prior and he is not in the line-up. Biggio has .257 BA vs. Prior and he has been horrible the last two weeks. Finally he realizes AE is not a leadoff hitter. But I still don't know why Jose is not in the line-up.

[Random.]

Originally posted by rikesh316
WTF is wrong with Phil Garner.
No Jose Vizcanio?

It's possible Viz still has a touch of the flu that has been going around the Astros clubhouse. (And did anyone notice the Brewers had the flu and they gave it to the Astros!)

[Xenon]

Biggio to Garner in Rocky voice: "You take me out of the lineup I'll kill you."

Man this guy needs a rest more than anyone. Why not do it now?

[rikesh316]

Phil Garner like sucking up to Biggio and Bagwell.

[JPM0016]

Originally posted by rikesh316
Phil Garner like sucking up to Biggio and Bagwell.

That must be it. :rolleyes:

[RocketFan007]

originally posted by rikesh316
Finally he realizes AE is not a leadoff hitter.

But Taveras, who has hit .150 since the first four games of the season, is?

[Random.]

Originally posted by RocketFan007
But Taveras, who has hit .150 since the first four games of the season, is?

Taveras has gotten on base in each game versus the cubs in the first, and scored each time.

This is exactly what we want in a leadoff hitter; results.

So I'd say, yes, he's a leadoff hitter.

[Xenon]

Another leadoff run scored for Taveras. Also looks like Bagwell is responding to our calls to bench his ass.

[RocketManJosh]

Another miscommunication error between Adam and an Outfielder looks like it is going to really cost us again. Man this is hard to watch.

Edit: Great job by Roy to get out of it ... Lets hope the Stros can get him some more runs

[Xenon]

Anyone get the feeling that this game is over already? I don't see us getting another run off Prior even though he's leaving a few pitches up.

This team just has absolutely no power. Sure would be nice to have a good 1st baseman again that can hit one out of the park consistently.

[RocketFan007]

Taveras has a great arm. I'm thinking in two years he'll be starting in right with Josh Anderson starting in center. If you think Taveras is fast, check out Anderson's numbers.

[Random.]

Taveras's defense has been amazing this series.

[NIKEstrad]

Originally posted by RocketFan007
Taveras has a great arm. I'm thinking in two years he'll be starting in right with Josh Anderson starting in center. If you think Taveras is fast, check out Anderson's numbers.

By most accounts Taveras is faster than Anderson. Willy is 8/9 on steals so far. Anderson is stealiing a bunch of bases (12 in 21 games) but has been caught 4 times. Willy is slugging better in the big leagues than Anderson is in AA- Anderson has no homers or triples and only 2 doubles in his 31 hits so far.

I see Berkman-Taveras-Lane as our OF for the next couple years. By then, we have a few other prospects that could easily leap Anderson- Hunter Pence for starters.

[RocketFan007]

originally posted by NIKEstrad
I see Berkman-Taveras-Lane as our OF for the next couple years. By then, we have a few other prospects that could easily leap Anderson- Hunter Pence for starters.

I was assuming that Berkman would move to first in two years when Bagwell is gone, leaving a Lane, Anderson, Taveras OF. I think Pence has great potential, but he's still playing low A ball, while Anderson is hitting .344 at AA.

Willy is slugging better in the big leagues than Anderson is in AA- Anderson has no homers or triples and only 2 doubles in his 31 hits so far.

Yeah, both are slap hitters, Willy had 16 extra base hits last year at AA, 13 of which were doubles. Anderson did show some pop playing at Lexington and Salem last year though, 40 extra base hits: 25 2B, 9 3B and 6 homers.

[RocketFan007]

Bases loaded 1 out. Come on Bags, get a knock here.

[RocketFan007]

Mike Lamb GRAND SLAM!!!

5-3 Astros.

[whag00]

Originally posted by RocketFan007
Mike Lamb GRAND SLAM!!!

5-3 Astros.

That thing shot out of there...

[Xenon]

Lamb bails out Bagwell. GS!

Wow, didn't see that one coming at all. Figured it would be another one of those bases loaded no runs scored innings for the stros.

[Nick]

I can't believe Prior challenged him with a fastball right down the middle on a 0-2 count.

Credit Lamb for being ready to blast it.

[Oski2005]

Thank God for WGN, now I get to see the game. Glad I found out it was on before the GS.

[RocketFan007]

Everett 3 run blast.

8-3 Astros.

[whag00]

Wow now Everett with a 3 run bomb

[Nick]

now Adam Everett with a 3 run shot to the Crawford Boxes!

a SEVEN run inning against Prior.

[Random.]

What problems with our offense? :)

[Nick]

I do believe that Lamb HR probably will take the collective pressure off this club for awhile....

But, they still need to be able to win on the road... they look great at home, but they've yet to look this good on the road for an entire series.

[msn]

Originally posted by Random.
What problems with our offense? :)
More streaks than a college athlete's underwear, for starters. :)

[Oski2005]

Originally posted by Random.
What problems with our offense? :)

Way to jinx it, jinxer. Knock on some wood, now.

[Random.]

Originally posted by Oski2005
Way to jinx it, jinxer. Knock on some wood, now.

I knocked just to make sure!

[Xenon]

Prior's era has gone from .95 to 3.75 in this one start. That's pretty harsh. damn.

[Oski2005]

Originally posted by Random.
I knocked just to make sure!

Thanks, now everybody make sure that every game you always do what you were doing at the very moment when Lamb hit the grand slam.

[whag00]

Looks like Oswalt's foot is acting up...

Here comes Springer

[Xenon]

Hopefully its just a blister or something.

[Nick]

Originally posted by whag00
Looks like Oswalt's foot is acting up...

Here comes Springer

It also looked like a ploy to get Springer all the warm-up time. I'm pretty sure that they were going to take out Oswalt anyways.

As long as its not his groin or ribcage, it look ok... especially if it is just some foot/ankle problem.

[RocketFan007]

Great pitching by Springer to keep the big lead.

[Xenon]

Umm...wow. I went away from the tv for a minute fully expecting those 2 runs to score when Oswalt left the game. How the heck did Springer keep those runs from scoring?

[Xenon]

Bagwell is soooo slow now. :(

[Random.]

Bagwell, that was painfully slow running.

[Oski2005]

Originally posted by Xenon
Umm...wow. I went away from the tv for a minute fully expecting those 2 runs to score when Oswalt left the game. How the heck did Springer keep those runs from scoring?

Well, his era is 2.89, or it was.

[Aceshigh7]

I've been saying for a long time that Lamb needs to be a starter for this team. He was a starter last year when we went on the big stretch run.

Start him in left until Berkman comes back, then make Lamb the starter at 3rd. Put Ensberg on the bench.

Expecially with this team, offensive capabilities have got to come before defense.

[Nick]

Originally posted by Aceshigh7
I've been saying for a long time that Lamb needs to be a starter for this team. He was a starter last year when we went on the big stretch run.

Start him in left until Berkman comes back, then make Lamb the starter at 3rd. Put Ensberg on the bench.

Expecially with this team, offensive capabilities have got to come before defense.

I posted this exact thing before the season, but many here believed that Lamb would never accept an everyday role at LF because he "didn't like it", or something like that...

Obviously, he's willing to play the outfield if it guarantees him an everyday job.

[RocketFan007]

originally posted by NIKEstrad
By most accounts Taveras is faster than Anderson. Willy is 8/9 on steals so far. Anderson is stealiing a bunch of bases (12 in 21 games) but has been caught 4 times.

You sure about that? Anderson stole 78 bases in 91 attempts last year at Salem and Lexington.

[torque]

Speed does not equate good defense in CF. Look at Roger Cedeno

[NIKEstrad]

Originally posted by RocketFan007
You sure about that? Anderson stole 78 bases in 91 attempts last year at Salem and Lexington.

He also had 636 plate appearances.

Over the last 2 years, one in high A ball and one in AA ball, Willy would've projected to 77 and 75 steals in that amount.

Anderson had a notable drop off in production when he had his call up to Lexington - including an OBP under .320. In fact, if you project his SB rate in Lexington (high A) to that 636 plate appearances, it drops down to 64 (only 64 steals?!?!?! :) ).

Most people who I've heard have seen them both have said Willy's faster- not to say Josh Anderson isn't blindingly fast, but that Willy is that ridiculous.

He's certainly off to a good start in AA though. It's just my thought a guy like him is insurance in the case Taveras is more Brian Hunter than Kenny Lofton, and the organization would much prefer to surround Willy in the OF with power potential guys. Einertson, the HS player who tied the rookie league HR record is not off to a great start, but Hunter Pence, our #1 pick, is lighting up in Lexington, hitting .356 with 6 HRs and a .480 OBP with a .685 SLG 20 games into the season.

Unless the rest of your lineup is filled with mashers, you can't really afford to have 3 guys (I'm including Everett and/or Burke) who are not really extra base threats. Even the Marlins- they have Pierre and Castillo, but in their OF are 2 30 HR guys in Cabrera and Encarnacion (used to be Floyd), their shortstop is a 20 HR guy, they have a plus offensive catcher (Lo Duca, used to be Pudge), and Lowell and Delgado can mash. We can't afford to have Taveras and Anderson out there if Burke/Everett is our DP combo and/or our catcher is at best an average offensive threat.

[deepellumrocket]

Originally posted by Nick

Obviously, he's willing to play the outfield if it guarantees him an everyday job.


Plus, he made a really nice sliding catch out there last night.

[Uprising]

Originally posted by Xenon
Anyone get the feeling that this game is over already? I don't see us getting another run off Prior even though he's leaving a few pitches up.

This team just has absolutely no power. Sure would be nice to have a good 1st baseman again that can hit one out of the park consistently.

Booya! Way to wake up our bats. :cool:

[Surfguy]

That was definitely a good series and very close to a sweep. I guess the mystery is why are we so much better at home than on the road? Maybe this is a wake up call? I hope so.

[Harrisment]

Couple of good wins. We're gonna have to put together a string of wins here soon, or I'm afraid the Cardinals are gonna run away with the division again.

[Nick]

Originally posted by Surfguy
the mystery is why are we so much better at home than on the road?

It is definitely a great mystery... but its nice to see that MMP has become a definitive home-field advantage. Nobody who watched this team in 2000 could have been comfortable w/ any game played there, but slowly and surely (and an 18 game win streak to end last season), it has become a place where you have a "comfort" level when watching a Stros game played there, knowing that you'll always have a chance to win that game.

In the end, I don't think this team is going to be a "bad" road team... its just a combination of young hitters getting their feet wet, good opposing pitching, and some bad luck.

[Nick]

Originally posted by Harrisment
Couple of good wins. We're gonna have to put together a string of wins here soon, or I'm afraid the Cardinals are gonna run away with the division again.

Barring injury, I don't see them ever slowing down... but, injuries do happen (and they didn't happen to them last year at all).

Izzy is currently on the DL, and they subsequently lost 2 out of 3 in Atlanta.

One of their #2-#3 Starting Pitchers, and an everyday player would have to go down as well for them to be truly catchable.