[ESPN] Raiders trade CB Buchanon to Texans

[King of 40 Acres]

link (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2041266)


texans have buchanon and robinson now and glenn not too bad IMO, no details on what they had to give up though.

[hardwood]

Very nice move not giving up the number 1.He eventually replaces Glenn,giving us perhaps the best,young corner combo in the NFL.
So we're not going after a corner early,hmmm.
Bring on Mike Williams.

[The Real Shady]

What did we give up for him?

[Stevierebel]

This is a pretty amazing trade. I am happy with it as long as we didn't give up the first rounder....

[Stevierebel]

the word is that it was for the second round and one of the third round picks.

[King of 40 Acres]

no details on what we had to give up, this story just broke a little while ago.

[King of 40 Acres]

thanks Stevierebel for the info.

[RocketFan007]

Some message boards are reporting that we gave up our second rounder and one of our thirds.

[Uprising]

Cool, nice move.

[drapg]

Wow. Huge trade and great move if a first rounder wasn't given up.

Dunta and Phillip. Nice secondary.

[drapg]

Originally posted by RocketFan007
Some message boards are reporting that we gave up our second rounder and one of our thirds.

That may be the funniest line I've ever read.

A message board being cited as a source! :D

[RocketFan007]

originally posted by drapg
That may be the funniest line I've ever read.

A message board being cited as a source!

Yeah, I know, just thought I'd throw it out there.

[drapg]

610 just said traded 3rd and 4th rounders this year.

[Stevierebel]

that link in the first post now states a second and third

[drapg]

yup, they just said on 610 now that its a 2nd and 3rd

[Tdogg]

This is a very nice trade for the Texans. I wonder though, if this means we are going to exclusivly draft a LB, DT, or DE in the draft.

Makes me wonder if someone like Rolle is still available at 13, will we pass on him or add him to make our secondary even better.

[drapg]

2nd and 3rd seems steep.

[KaiSeR SoZe]

I don't know what to say I'm happy we've done something but just not sure if we did something good

[xiki]

so, who is this guy?

[RocketFan007]

originally posted by Tdogg
Makes me wonder if someone like Rolle is still available at 13, will we pass on him or add him to make our secondary even better.

I can almost guarantee they would pass on Rolle. We re-signed Faggins this offseason so we now have Dunta, Glenn, Buchanon and Faggins at corner.

I think now we'll either see Merriman or Ware at 13, or a trade down for extra picks.

[RocketFan007]

originally posted by xiki
so, who is this guy?

A playmaker of a CB, and at only 24, we have our corners set for the next 10 years in Dunta and Buchanon. On top of that, he's one of the best punt returners in the NFL.

[rezdawg]

Great trade.

We are set at CB for the next 8 years.

A future secondary of Robinson, Buchanon, Earl, and Faggins could be among the best in the game.

With our first pick, we are going LB or WR, IMO. I wouldnt mind getting a DL though.

[hoang17]

2nd and 3rd is fine with me. We still have our #1 and the 3rd from the Henson Trade (It's the earlier 3rd too I think).

The best thing that comes out of this trade is we got a stud corner. He's only 24, was a 1st round pick and we don't have to wonder if he's gonna be a bust or a good player. Pair him up with Dunta and we got prolly the best young corner duos in the nfl.

And this even clears up what we're gonna do with our 1st. I would love it if we could nab DJ but i definitely think that at 13 one of Merrimen, Ware, Clayton, Williamson will be there to take.

To put it simply, we went with a sure thing. I would rather have this than to take a chance on Pac Man Jones or Carlos Rogers. (Rolle on the other hand, i'd take even with Buchanon).

[LonghornFan]

AWESOME TRADE!!!

We're basically giving up a proven starter for a second round pick since we still have a third from the Hensen trade. Also, he's making BELOW $700,000 the next two years.

This is a steal! I LOVE IT! :D

[shawn786]

Fox Sports Net just confiermed it as well its the 2nd and 3rd round picks

[gucci888]

Originally posted by RocketFan007
I can almost guarantee they would pass on Rolle. We re-signed Faggins this offseason so we now have Dunta, Glenn, Buchanon and Faggins at corner.

I think now we'll either see Merriman or Ware at 13, or a trade down for extra picks.

I have a feeling Merriman will be gone by 13, but Ware is a good possibility.

I was just watch FSSW and someone from the Texans was saying that we might be looking at some receivers or a pass rusher, also said that talks of picking up an offensive lineman is fading.

[Harrisment]

Great trade, Buchanon is a solid NFL corner and we'll give us one of the best combos for years to come. I'm just trying to figure out where he is going to play? Split time with Glenn I assume? I just don't know how well Buchanon is going to take to that role.....I'm sure he wants to be a starter and full time player.

[gucci888]

Also, FSSW reported that the Redskins were offering the #9 pick and another pick for Buchannon. Not sure why that didn't work out but it shows what this kid is worth.

Our love our secondary now. Glenn is getting old, so having Robinson and Buchannon as our future is great.

[Harrisment]

Originally posted by gucci888


I was just watch FSSW and someone from the Texans was saying that we might be looking at some receivers or a pass rusher, also said that talks of picking up an offensive lineman is fading.

That was Marc Vandermeer, from sports radio 610. I'd take what he says with a grain of salt.....although thinking we are going to take a pass rusher or receiver is probably a safe bet.

[gunn]

Originally posted by Harrisment
That was Marc Vandermeer, from sports radio 610. I'd take what he says with a grain of salt.....although thinking we are going to take a pass rusher or receiver is probably a safe bet.

It will be interesting if Cadillac Williams falls too.

[Ottomaton]

Originally posted by Tdogg
Makes me wonder if someone like Rolle is still available at 13, will we pass on him or add him to make our secondary even better.

Rolle was arrested before the season for felony battery of a law enforcement officer and misdemeanor disorderly conduct and resisting an officer without violence.

Given the stated position of the Texans regarding off field issues, I believe that he might have been passed on at 13 even if Buchanon was not in the picture.

[Lil Francis]

WOW!!!!!!!! :eek: Not only is he one of the best young corners in the game he is also one of the best punt returners in the game. Dunta on one side and Phillip on the other. I can't wait for the season to start.

[Joshfast]

Great move - depending on whose available at 13, I would like to trade down to the lower part of the first round and pick up some extra picks.

[arif1127]

Originally posted by Lil Francis
WOW!!!!!!!! :eek: Not only is he one of the best young corners in the game he is also one of the best punt returners in the game. Dunta on one side and Phillip on the other. I can't wait for the season to start.

i wouldn't go as far as calling him one of the best young corners in the game, he's been wildly inconsistent his whole career. his problem is that he has no discipline, but i think the texans coaching staff can drill it into him. with some discipline, patrick buchanan could be a top notch corner, he has the physical tools to be really good. i think it is a good trade for both sides, the raiders wanted to get rid of him and the texans needed a corner to take over for glenn in the near future, and pb could be that guy. the trade is risky, in that pb may never learn the discipline needed to be a good to great cb, but the upside is really high.

[Trader_Jorge]

I think that for the second year in a row, Casserly looks at his roster and determines that the Texans are overall a very very young team. Bringing a lot of draft picks into the fold only worsens the situation. I like what he is doing here, by only bringing in quality young guys like Dunta, Babin, Glen Earl (who was coming off an injury, otherwise would have been a higher pick), and now this year's first round selection.

I'm hoping we get either Mike Williams or Marcus Spears. I still think that center, tight end and inside linebacker are our weakest positions on the field, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of talent out there in this year's draft at those positions. I don't think Derrick Johnson would fit in a 3-4 scheme.

[RocketFan007]

originally posted by arif1127
patrick buchanan could be a top notch corner, he has the physical tools to be really good.

Pat Buchanon?!?:eek:

Isn't he way too old to be playing football?:D

[RIET]

It was an ok move, not great.

He's been inconsistent otherwise the Raiders wouldnt have given up on him so easily - especially the Raiders who are always willing to take baggage if they feel the talent is there.

A 2nd and 3rd is about what you pay to get a low 1 so it's not a steal.

It's not like he was a Top 5 pick.

[Dennis2112]

Originally posted by Trader_Jorge
I don't think Derrick Johnson would fit in a 3-4 scheme.


DJ would fit quite nicely on the weakside ILB position.

THe 13th pick will be either DJ, Merriman, Cedric B ( who is falling on some draft boards), or one of the top 3 WRs still available.

[RocketFan007]

originally posted by Dennis2112
THe 13th pick will be either DJ, Merriman, Cedric B ( who is falling on some draft boards), or one of the top 3 WRs still available.

You need to add Demarcus Ware to that list.

[JamesC]

I like this move. I was talking with a friend about the upcoming season and I was dissapointed at the moves and lack of moves the team has made so far this offseason.

[Lil Francis]

Originally posted by arif1127
i wouldn't go as far as calling him one of the best young corners in the game, he's been wildly inconsistent his whole career. his problem is that he has no discipline, but i think the texans coaching staff can drill it into him. with some discipline, patrick buchanan could be a top notch corner, he has the physical tools to be really good. i think it is a good trade for both sides, the raiders wanted to get rid of him and the texans needed a corner to take over for glenn in the near future, and pb could be that guy. the trade is risky, in that pb may never learn the discipline needed to be a good to great cb, but the upside is really high. Yeah he has alot of raw talent. I mean't he was one of the best young corners as far as making plays. Everytime he touches the ball he is a threat to score and Dunta is the same way so it should be fun to watch those two together. P.B. is also a great return man which means J.J. can now look for a new job. Swinton will handle the kick returns and P.B. will handle the punt returns. If we land Benson at 13 then I will give this offseason a B+ but I know that won't happen.

[Bassfly]

phillip buchanon is hailed as a potential shut down cornerback, he definately has the skillset. i think it was a good trade considering that cornerback is a position that's at a premium in the league now. since the illegal touching rule has been in effect, there's been a search for corners who can actually cover.

[EddieWasSnubbed]

For some reason, when I read this, I was thinking Ray Buchanon. I also thought I had read that we gave up our first rounder for him. I was about to flip. Then, I clicked on the link, found out it was Phillip Buchanon, and only our second and thirds, and I think the move was brilliant.


If Casserly can nab Mike Williams, I may piddle in my computer seat.

[moestavern19]

Unless some things change, P-Buc will never be an elite shut down corner in the NFL. I think he will be a pretty good CB, He has all the talent in the world, He's already scored an insane amount of TDs in the short amount of time he's played. Last year he sort of turned into this cocky kid with a chip on his shoulder and Al doesn't put up with **** like that. His "Showtime" bull**** got on people's nerves very quickly and nobody wanted his showboating ass around. I mean he makes one amazing interception return for a TD, then the next play he gets beat on a fly route by Corey ****ing Schlesinger. His nickname last season became "Burnt Toast". Tremendous athelete but he is still very raw and needs to work on his coverage skills a lot.

I welcome this trade since we desperatley need to add some youth on the defensive side of the ball (quantity wise), and with 2 more picks in the first 3 rounds. Best of luck to you guys with Phillip, You might actually get some punts returned more than 3 yards now.

[MykTek]

i heard on 610 that buchanon was the 17th pick of the 1st rd in 2002.....so giving up a 2nd and a 3rd really isn't that bad.... he is a very nice addition to our team and he is gonna push Moses even more for the return role....

[bottlerocket]

I think the trade is interesting b/c this years draft is deep for DBs & Safeties. They could have drafted a quality DB/Safety in the late rds and then bring him up slow. I don't see Aarron Glenn hanging it up anytime soon.
We could have use those two picks on other areas

[EddieWasSnubbed]

Originally posted by MykTek
i heard on 610 that buchanon was the 17th pick of the 1st rd in 2002.....so giving up a 2nd and a 3rd really isn't that bad.... he is a very nice addition to our team and he is gonna push Moses even more for the return role....

The guy seemed to be about even talentwise with Ed Reed (his college teammate) when they both came out of college, if I can remember correctly. I remember when he came out of college, he seemed like a can't miss. His rookie season was stellar.

[Lil Francis]

Originally posted by MykTek
i heard on 610 that buchanon was the 17th pick of the 1st rd in 2002.....so giving up a 2nd and a 3rd really isn't that bad.... he is a very nice addition to our team and he is gonna push Moses even more for the return role.... He shouldn't have to compete with J.J. for the return job. I think the real push will be with Glenn for that starting corner spot.

[rezdawg]

Originally posted by bottlerocket
I think the trade is interesting b/c this years draft is deep for DBs & Safeties. They could have drafted a quality DB/Safety in the late rds and then bring him up slow. I don't see Aarron Glenn hanging it up anytime soon.
We could have use those two picks on other areas

Although the draft is deep in DB's, we are getting a guy that is proven. Its much more of a sure thing than a 2md or 3rd round selection.

Also, next year will most likely be the end of Glenn's run with the Texans, so we dont really have the luxury of drafting someone and bringing them up slowly. Buchanon can step right in and do the job, a damn good job too.

[Fegwu]

This indeed is an awesome trade. I could not believe when I saw it the first time. This is a steal unless Buch has any injury or negative issues.

This cannot only make the 3-4 defense better (or have we decided to switch to 4-3) with young shut down corners. Now I hope we can trade down and get more players than picking a ware or rolle if he drops.

[Fegwu]

Originally posted by Trader_Jorge
I'm hoping we get either Mike Williams or Marcus Spears.


Mike Williams will be a top 4 pick.

[bottlerocket]

Originally posted by rezdawg
Although the draft is deep in DB's, we are getting a guy that is proven. Its much more of a sure thing than a 2md or 3rd round selection.

Also, next year will most likely be the end of Glenn's run with the Texans, so we dont really have the luxury of drafting someone and bringing them up slowly. Buchanon can step right in and do the job, a damn good job too.

I'll buy that.

[Stack24]

Im very happy with this aquisition....like everyone has said Glenn can't play that much longer and we will have Buchanon who is not only a great DB he is a great returner as well (we don't really need that with the signing of Swinton and JJ) But he is going to give us a real formadable secondary...

[Joe Joe]

Originally posted by Fegwu
Mike Williams will be a top 4 pick.

I really doubt this. I also doubt the Texans want him at 13 as they have talked about getting speed at the other wideout.

[Joe Joe]

On the trade, I am happy that the Texans solidified the defense and that he's cheap at a very expensive position. It doesn't seem to be a bargain or an overcharge. Seems about right.

[MadMax]

Good trade. But I seriously doubt this guy will displace either Glenn or Robinson as a starter next year. At this point of their careers, I'd argue both are better than Buchanon is right now. Not taking anything away from Buchanon, though...this definitely addresses the future, considering Glenn is not getting any younger. But you better lock him down to a longer contract if that was the idea here...not sure how happy Buchanon will be about not starting this season.

As for whether this is a bargain...depends on perspective. If you consider they traded Drew Henson (a 6th round pick) to get this 3rd round pick they just traded to Oakland...then I'd say that's huge value. Ultimately, your team gave up a 6th round pick and a 2nd round pick to get a guy that's already proven himself as a starter in this league. Not bad.

[swilkins]

Originally posted by Harrisment
Great trade, Buchanon is a solid NFL corner and we'll give us one of the best combos for years to come. I'm just trying to figure out where he is going to play? Split time with Glenn I assume? I just don't know how well Buchanon is going to take to that role.....I'm sure he wants to be a starter and full time player.

He will the starter in the nickel package and step in for Glenn on occasion is my guess.

I really liked Faggins, but he is a quality backup for any of our corners.

Good move.:)

[MoBalls]

This is an awesome trade....just got back from vacation. I cant wait for football season.

[nWo34Life]

Now that's a pickup.

All the other threads of Texans signings I had posted, this is the best pickup.

Now all we need is that help on the OL, help on the DL, or a good WR in the draft or FA. This is a major step in the right direction to help our pass defense.

[Clutch]

Originally posted by moestavern19
He has all the talent in the world, He's already scored an insane amount of TDs in the short amount of time he's played. Last year he sort of turned into this cocky kid with a chip on his shoulder and Al doesn't put up with **** like that. His "Showtime" bull**** got on people's nerves very quickly and nobody wanted his showboating ass around.

Are you talking about Buchanon or Moss?

[MadMax]

Originally posted by Clutch
Are you talking about Buchanon or Moss?

i kinda thought the same thing. since when have the Raiders had a humble, good guy reputation?

[SamCassell]

You guys are crazy, the Raiders are all about signing quiet, low-key guys who just go out and get the job done, like Warren Sapp and Sebastian Janikowski.

[rrj_gamz]

This is awesome...I know they had to of had a good long discussion to erase any concerns of attitude, etc...

Now we need the pass russher and a LT...

[nWo34Life]

Does anyone know which 3rd Round pick we're suppose to give up? The one from Dallas or our original 3rd rounder?

[Harrisment]

Originally posted by nWo34Life
Does anyone know which 3rd Round pick we're suppose to give up? The one from Dallas or our original 3rd rounder?

I'm pretty sure it's the pick from Dallas.

[moestavern19]

Originally posted by Clutch
Are you talking about Buchanon or Moss?


I was thinking the same thing when I typed that. :)

Randy Moss is a proven NFL superstar who has established himself among the best players in the game, Phillip Buchanon has been the Raiders starting corner the past 2 years basically by default by beating out training camp fodder and somehow elevated himself to Deion Sanders status. Plus by acquiring him we've now maxed out our Punk Quota.

You guys keep saying he is a proven starter, but he needs a lot of work and I don't think you should start him this season as long as Glenn still has a few starts left in him. I'll gladly trade one cocky. flashy but unproven punk to have 4 picks between 38-78 in the draft.

[meh]

Originally posted by moestavern19
You guys keep saying he is a proven starter, but he needs a lot of work and I don't think you should start him this season as long as Glenn still has a few starts left in him. I'll gladly trade one cocky. flashy but unproven punk to have 4 picks between 38-78 in the draft.

What 4 mid-level picks? We only gave up a 2nd and a 3rd, which is probably the equivalent of a very late 1st rounder. I would say Buchannon is certainly more valuable than any player we can pick up with such a pick. Of course, he is 2 years closer to free agency than any draft picks, which is the downside. Overall, I think it's a good trade, especially if we want to win this year without sacrificing the future too much.

[DieHard Rocket]

Originally posted by moestavern19
I was thinking the same thing when I typed that. :)

Randy Moss is a proven NFL superstar who has established himself among the best players in the game, Phillip Buchanon has been the Raiders starting corner the past 2 years basically by default by beating out training camp fodder and somehow elevated himself to Deion Sanders status. Plus by acquiring him we've now maxed out our Punk Quota.

You guys keep saying he is a proven starter, but he needs a lot of work and I don't think you should start him this season as long as Glenn still has a few starts left in him. I'll gladly trade one cocky. flashy but unproven punk to have 4 picks between 38-78 in the draft.

The Raiders suck, moe. ;)

Seriously though, you can't argue with this trade as a Texans fan. 2nd/3rd round picks by no means equal out to a proven player in the league, especially with the talent of a guy like Buchanon. The Raiders will be lucky if one of those picks turns out to be a long time starter.

I'm not worried about his attitude. I'm pretty sure its a given that when you sign a contract with the Raiders they put in it that you have to be "cocky" and "overly-confident". Buchanon was just trying to keep up with Charles Woodson.

;)

[moestavern19]

Originally posted by meh
What 4 mid-level picks? We only gave up a 2nd and a 3rd, which is probably the equivalent of a very late 1st rounder. I would say Buchannon is certainly more valuable than any player we can pick up with such a pick. Of course, he is 2 years closer to free agency than any draft picks, which is the downside. Overall, I think it's a good trade, especially if we want to win this year without sacrificing the future too much.

Your 2nd + 3rd plus our own 2nd + 3rd = 4 picks.

Honestly I think this trade is beneficial for both teams, we certainly wouldn't be resigning Buchanon to a big deal when his rookie contract was up. A young team like the Texans have the time to develop him, while the Raiders have always been a reload rather than rebuild type team, so I wouldn't be surprised if we packaged a couple of these picks to move up and get a impact player on Defense.

DHR - All I'm going to say to you is that If a 2nd and 3rd rounder is worth Phillip Buchanon why won't Carl give up just a 2nd to get Patrick ****in Surtain? :) Talking about proven players.

[moestavern19]

Originally posted by DieHard Rocket
The Raiders will be lucky if one of those picks turns out to be a long time starter.


Yeah 2nd and 3rd rounders amount to ****.
(All these players I'm listing are at least starters)

2000 2nd round picks
Darren Howard
Jerry Porter
Todd Wade

2000 3rd round picks
Laveranues Coles
Darrell Jackson
Reuben Droughns

2001 2nd round picks
Drew Brees
Alge Crumpler
Chad Johnson
Kendrell Bell
Kris Jenkins
Fred Smoot
LaMont Jordan
Chris Chambers
Travis Henry
Shaun Rogers

2001 3rd round picks

Steve Smith
Kevan Barlow
Jonas Jennings
Derrick Burgess

2002 2nd round picks

Jabar Gaffney
DeShaun Foster
Toniu Fonoti
Andre' Davis
Reche Caldwell
Clinton Portis
Antwaan Randle El
Antonio Bryant
Deion Branch

2002 3rd round picks
Ben Leber
Josh McCown
Lamar Gordon
Akin Ayodele
Brian Westbrook
Marques Anderson

2003 2nd round picks

Boss Bailey
RaShean Mathis
Bethel Johnson
Anquan Boldin
Mike Doss
Tyrone Calido
LJ Smith

2003 3rd round picks
Jason Witten
Nate Burleson
Ricky Manning jr
Chris Simms

2004 2nd round picks
Ben Troupe
Tatum Bell
Julius Jones
Michael Boulware
Keary Colbert


This is all pointless really because I'm sure we'll be packaging most of those picks to move up.

[MadMax]

moe -- UNLESS I'M READING IT WRONG....from what you just posted, the most you can expect is that 10 out of the 32 players taken in a draft will be starters. so again..you'd be lucky if one of those picks turned into a starter. less than a 30% chance. unless, as you say, you package those picks to move up.

[moestavern19]

Originally posted by MadMax
moe -- UNLESS I'M READING IT WRONG....from what you just posted, the most you can expect is that 10 out of the 32 players taken in a draft will be starters. so again..you'd be lucky if one of those picks turned into a starter. less than a 30% chance. unless, as you say, you package those picks to move up.

I posted recent draft history, a lot of the 2002 and up guys are still waiting to replace starters, and I failed to list offensive line and others who are probably starting, just mostly recognizable players. Believe me, 2nd round and 3rd round picks are held in very high regard, and teams who are looking to add depth would kill to have 4 picks in that range.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by moestavern19
I posted recent draft history, a lot of the 2002 and up guys are still waiting to replace starters, and I failed to list offensive line and others who are probably starting, just mostly recognizable players. Believe me, 2nd round and 3rd round picks are held in very high regard, and teams who are looking to add depth would kill to have 4 picks in that range.

i understand they are. but if you're in the Texans shoes, you make that trade everyday, if you perceive a need there. here's a guy who's already started games for the Raiders and has that experience...and you're giving up the POSSIBILITY that you might be in that roughly 30% who two years after the fact actually have the guy you pick starting for you. seems like a no-brainer from the Texans' perspective, given the relative youth of Buchanon and his track record so far.

[moestavern19]

I'd do the trade if I was the Texans as well, I'm not saying the Texans aren't getting an incredible talent, because they are. Buchanon isn't a better CORNERBACK than Aaron Glenn is though at this point in his career. That being said he played like **** for us last season and was very disgruntled with the organization. It is my understanding that after last season he made his intentions to leave well known to the higher ups, and subsequently burned his bridges. A trade was simply an inevitablilty. It's unfortunate, because we know the potential he has, but I am at the very least glad we got something of value in return for him

[RIET]

Originally posted by MadMax
moe -- UNLESS I'M READING IT WRONG....from what you just posted, the most you can expect is that 10 out of the 32 players taken in a draft will be starters. so again..you'd be lucky if one of those picks turned into a starter. less than a 30% chance. unless, as you say, you package those picks to move up.

False.

For example, 2001 Round 2. Highlighted are those who are still in the league (most are starters including many Pro Bowl Caliber players)-


32.San Diego Drew Brees QB Purdue
33 Cleveland Quincy Morgan WR Kansas State
34 Arizona Kyle Vanden Bosch DE Nebraska
35 Atlanta Alge Crumpler TE North Carolina
36 Cincinnati Chad Johnson WR Oregon State
37 Indianapolis Idrees Bashir FS Memphis
38 Chicago Anthony Thomas RB Michigan
39 Pittsburgh Kendrell Bell ILB Georgia
40 Seattle Ken Lucas CB Mississippi
41 Green Bay Robert Ferguson WR Texas A&M
42 St. Louis Tommy Polley OLB Florida State
43 Jacksonville Maurice Williams T Michigan
44 Carolina Kris Jenkins DT Maryland
45 Washington Fred Smoot CB Mississippi State
46 Buffalo Aaron Schobel DE Texas Christian
47 San Francisco Jamie Winborn ILB Vanderbilt
48 New England Matt Light T Purdue
49 N.Y. Jets LaMont Jordan RB Maryland
50 Detroit Dominic Raiola C Nebraska
51 Denver Paul Toviessi DE Marshall
52 Miami Chris Chambers WR Wisconsin
53 Dallas Quincy Carter QB Georgia
54 Arizona Michael Stone SS Memphis
55 Philadelphia Quinton Caver OLB Arkansas
56 Dallas Tony Dixon SS Alabama
57 Minnesota Willie Howard DE Stanford
58 Buffalo Travis Henry RB Tennessee
59 Oakland Marques Tuiasosopo QB Washington
60 Tennessee Andre Dyson CB Utah
61 Detroit Shaun Rogers DT Texas
62 Baltimore Gary Baxter CB Baylor

[xiki]

Originally posted by moestavern19
I'd do the trade if I was the Texans as well, I'm not saying the Texans aren't getting an incredible talent, because they are. Buchanon isn't a better CORNERBACK than Aaron Glenn is though at this point in his career. That being said he played like **** for us last season and was very disgruntled with the organization. It is my understanding that after last season he made his intentions to leave well known to the higher ups, and subsequently burned his bridges. A trade was simply an inevitablilty. It's unfortunate, because we know the potential he has, but I am at the very least glad we got something of value in return for him

From what you said it sounds like the Texans overpaid, unless there was a 'quiet' b idding among several teams for a trade for him.

Sounds like a 3rd and 4th, or 2nd and 5th would have been good picks under Raiders' situation with Buchannon.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by moestavern19
I'd do the trade if I was the Texans as well, I'm not saying the Texans aren't getting an incredible talent, because they are. Buchanon isn't a better CORNERBACK than Aaron Glenn is though at this point in his career. That being said he played like **** for us last season and was very disgruntled with the organization. It is my understanding that after last season he made his intentions to leave well known to the higher ups, and subsequently burned his bridges. A trade was simply an inevitablilty. It's unfortunate, because we know the potential he has, but I am at the very least glad we got something of value in return for him

i hear ya. i said earlier, he shouldn't displace Glenn ths season. he simply wasn't as good last season as Glenn was. no argument there.

[MadMax]

RIET -- i have no concept how many of those guys are actual NFL starters. I thought that's what Moe was posting.

[RIET]

Originally posted by MadMax
RIET -- i have no concept how many of those guys are actual NFL starters. I thought that's what Moe was posting.

Last year, the majority of them played in at least 14 games or more, many of whom are starters.

To say there were about 10 starters at most is wrong.

30% of players on that list have Pro Bowl talent (some have made it - others won't because of the quality of players that are entrenched at their positions for years). That's not bad.

[hardwood]

I have no problem with slightly "overpaying" .You see a player with Pro bowl talent,at a need position(esp. cornerback),that is 24....and available.I do like CC giving up a 2 and the Henson pick though for PB.

[DieHard Rocket]

Even after all those guys moe and RIET (2001 was obviously a big draft year) posted, the Raiders would still be lucky for one of those picks to be full time starters. In what moe posted, I'd estimate that a little more than half of 2nd/3rd rounders those years are now key players.

And I'm not going to look it up, but what about 2nd/3rd rounders from '96 to 2000? How many 2nd/3rd rounders are still in the league starting after 6+ years? I'm not going to say that Buchanon is guaranteed to be good for at least 6 more years, but there is a solid chance.

The Texans know what they are getting in this trade. When you get a chance to get young, proven talent you take it (even with potential attitude problems, which I trust Casserly on this). Casserly has done an A+ job with this team up to this offseason...the Sharper thing is the only thing anyone has ever questioned. I trust that he knows what he's doing here.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by RIET
Last year, the majority of them played in at least 14 games or more, many of whom are starters.

To say there were about 10 starters at most is wrong.

30% of players on that list have Pro Bowl talent (some have made it - others won't because of the quality of players that are entrenched at their positions for years). That's not bad.

ok..frankly i have no concept of it. just going off the list provided by moe.

[Rocket G]

He better start.

If he doesn't, and he doesn't return punts, then this trade is ballz.

I mean 2nd & 3rd rounders are often starters on teams with as many holes as the Texans, and if Buchanon is benched for the Aaron Glenn retirement tour then this will have been pointless.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by Rocket G
He better start.


he won't.

again..at this point, he's not better than either Glenn or Dunta. and he certainly isn't going to take plays away from the development of Dunta, at the very least. if one gets hurt, he's your man. he'll come in on nickel packages...he'll return punts, probably.

[Rocket G]

Yeah - that's my fear. I mean we could use those to draft picks at this stage, and leaving this guy on the bench - when he only has a couple of years left on contract, and obviously was too much trouble for the Raidrs of all teams...

[MadMax]

Originally posted by Rocket G
Yeah - that's my fear. I mean we could use those to draft picks at this stage, and leaving this guy on the bench - when he only has a couple of years left on contract, and obviously was too much trouble for the Raidrs of all teams...

that's what concerns me the most. you trade for the guy. he doesn't start. he gets disgruntled. he doesn't re-sign here. he's gone. and you've spent 2 draft picks on a guy who never started for you and bolted after 2 seasons.

[RIET]

Originally posted by MadMax
ok..frankly i have no concept of it. just going off the list provided by moe.

The list Moe gave was the cream of the crop.

Realistically, between a 2 and a 3, you probably have about a 60% chance of landing at least 1 starter and about a 30% chance that one will be a probowl caliber.

That's similiar to what a late 1st round pick would equate to except if you're really good (or lucky), you can pick up 2 starters or use the picks to move up.

I don't think it's a bad deal because he does have a lot of talent (when he was picked, many thought he'd go higher).

However, my concern (similiar to yours) is if he's not an immediate starter, then why spend 2 high picks on him - especially if he has baggage.

The Raiders tolerate baggage and they didn't tolerate him.

He has starter ability, even pro bowl ability. However, it's not a given he'll be either.

[JayZ750]

The Texans gave up too much, but considering ho wpoorly they've drafted in rounds 2 and 3 in their history, then relative to their drafting ability, they didn't. Buchanon alone is probably better than all of the Texans Round 2/3 picks historically combined, with the exception of Gaffney.

[SamCassell]

If Gaffney is the best second round pick in the Texans' history, we're in trouble. If he was that good, we wouldn't be talking about still needing a quality #2 receiver. The Texans have drafted well in the first round, and in the late rounds, so it's weird that the 2nd and 3rd would give them so much trouble.

[RIET]

Originally posted by SamCassell
If Gaffney is the best second round pick in the Texans' history, we're in trouble. If he was that good, we wouldn't be talking about still needing a quality #2 receiver. The Texans have drafted well in the first round, and in the late rounds, so it's weird that the 2nd and 3rd would give them so much trouble.

The only 2 outstanding picks have been Andre Johnson and Dunta (Dominack Davis has been good but not a long term solution)

Gafney is ok. Pitts is ok. Carr is ok.

The jury is still out on Wand, Babbin, Peek, Hollings, Joppru.

We're talking about a lot of "IF"s.

Considering how many draft choices we had and the cap room flexibility, Casserly has been very mediocre. Not good. Not bad. Just average.

And not surprisingly, that's how the Texans willl probably fare this year - average.

Casserly's rep as a GM Genius is way exagerrated.

[ChrisP]

Anybody think maybe Glenn is trade bait now?

That would take care of the "why trade 2 picks for a guy that's going to sit on the bench and then split" concern.

[nWo34Life]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2042190

Well, that 2nd rounder we gave to OAK has been sent to the NY Jets.

The Raiders traded Doug Jolley (TE), 2nd Rd pick, and two 6th Rd Picks to the NY Jets. The Jets sent their 1st Round Pick (26th) of this weekend's draft to the Raiders.

[RocketFan007]

originally posted by nWo4Life
Well, that 2nd rounder we gave to OAK has been sent to the NY Jets.

Actually, I think they kept the pick we sent them and traded their own second round pick, which was higher.

[moestavern19]

Originally posted by RocketFan007
Actually, I think they kept the pick we sent them and traded their own second round pick, which was higher.

Nope, it was the Texans 2nd. 47th overall I believe.

Just like I said, we wanted to move up and after the Redkins wouldn't give up their 1st for Buchanon and our 2nd, we went elsewhere

Another good trade for both teams here, Jolley is excess here since we have two young stud TEs in Teyo Johnson and Courtney Anderson. The Jets get the TE they need and we move up into the 1st round.

[moestavern19]

Wow, John Clayton is now supposedly reporting that The Skins and Raiders are working on a deal that may include

Charles Woodson
The Redskins 9th overall pick
Lavar Arrington
Either the Raiders 1st (Via NY) 2nd or 3rd pick



The madness continues, keep takin those vitamins Al. :eek:

[nWo34Life]

Other Deals in the Works:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpcTFhbmEwBF9TAzk1ODYxMDU5BHNlYwN0bQ--?slug=cr-trades042005&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[rockets-#1]

Call me crazy, but I don't really like it. I don't know anything about Buchanon, so I'm not against it because of his game. We all know Dunta will be great for us, and Glenn has been great. True, he's past his prime, but I still see him as being a good CB. The backups at CB have been solid.

It makes more sense to me for the Texans to work on right now what they need the most which is OL, DL, LB, and maybe WR. It seems to me they'd be better served trading or drafting for a CB when Glenn really starts to slip. Oh well, least Buchanon is good; he better resign.

[nWo34Life]

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3145953

Buchanon may end up a Texans cornerstone
Competition figures to be fierce among newcomer, Robinson, Glenn
By CARLTON THOMPSON
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle

A relentless willingness to compete is among the characteristics that have allowed Aaron Glenn to enjoy a long and successful NFL career despite being undersized for his position. That quality will be put to the test as Glenn and fellow cornerback Dunta Robinson try to hold on to their starting jobs following the Texans' acquisition of Phillip Buchanon.

The trade that sent a second- and a third-round pick to the Oakland Raiders for Buchanon should be official today, pending league approval and the third-year cornerback's passing a physical.

After that, let the competition begin. Texans coach Dom Capers isn't sure who his starting cornerbacks will be, and considering the Texans played at least three corners about 45 percent of the time last season, perhaps playing time won't be a major issue. Regardless, Capers is certain the Texans never have been stocked better at the position.

Because Robinson was the Texans' most productive cornerback last season, it would seem Buchanon would have a better chance of bumping Glenn from the starting lineup. But it's worth noting Buchanon struggled with consistency last year in Oakland and lost his starting job in the final two games.

"Aaron is at a different stage of his career than Phillip," Capers said. "You're talking about a (24)-year-old player compared to a (32)-year-old player. Obviously, we've added a lot more competition to the situation. I think you have to let them play themselves out on the field and see how it all works out. We'll get into it and let the competition take place and make the decisions from what we see on the practice fields."

Attempts to reach Glenn were unsuccessful, but Capers said he met with the three-time Pro Bowl cornerback Wednesday morning.

"Aaron's reaction was positive," Capers said. "Aaron is a competitor, and he has a lot of confidence in his ability. We had a good meeting. Like with everything, Aaron looks forward to the challenge."

Buchanon, who arrived in Houston for his physical on Wednesday afternoon, is as excited about getting to play with Glenn as he is about competing for a starting job and getting a fresh start with a new team.

"My whole view is to come in and learn as much as I can learn from Aaron and to do everything I can to help," Buchanon said. "There was another team involved (Washington), but I'm glad it worked out here. Everything happened so quickly. I'm really hyped about it."

Texans general manager Charley Casserly finalized the deal Tuesday night. As far as Casserly was concerned, parting with a pair of first-day draft picks in exchange for the 17th player selected in the 2002 draft was a no-brainer.

"Can you acquire a player as good as Phillip Buchanon in the second round of the draft?" Casserly said. "The answer is no. Now you're giving up a third-round pick. Your percentage of players drafted in the third round becoming starters is 30 percent or less. You're weighing that when you make this decision. When we finish the draft, we know we got a starter in the second round ... we know we got the best player drafted in the second round this year."

Buchanon has a reputation for being brash and outspoken, and he reportedly fell out of favor with the Raiders organization last season. Capers said he got positive feedback in his background research on Buchanon and intends to give the player a clean slate.

"I see myself fitting in like any other player," Buchanon said. "Some things went on (in Oakland) that I wasn't very happy with. It was mainly with some of the players. Some of them weren't ready to play."

Also on Wednesday, the Texans signed defensive tackle Daleroy Stewart, who spent the first three years of his career with Dallas and last season in San Francisco.

[EddieWasSnubbed]

Why not try buchanon at safety? It seems he and Coleman would be an excellent safety combo. Buchanon seems like he would be a great safety...

[nWo34Life]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-texans-buchanan&prov=ap&type=lgns

Texans welcome "Showtime'' to town

By JOEL ANDERSON, AP Sports Writer
April 21, 2005

HOUSTON (AP) -- "Showtime'' flopped in Oakland, and the Texans hope Phillip Buchanon's act will go over better in Houston.

The Texans acquired the disgruntled cornerback on Thursday in exchange for second- and third-round picks in Saturday's NFL draft. Buchanon passed his physical Wednesday, and the NFL approved the trade Thursday.

The Raiders packaged the second-round pick from Houston (47th overall) with tight end Doug Jolley to get the 26th overall selection from the New York Jets in another trade Thursday.

``When you look at where we were picking in the second round, we felt Phillip was clearly better than any player there,'' Texans general manager Charley Casserly said. ``We acquired an experienced player ... there's not a learning curve involved here.''

The Raiders had recently been looking to trade Buchanon, nicknamed ``Showtime'' by former NFL star Deion Sanders. The team talked to the Washington Redskins about the outspoken Buchanon, who went off about the organization just four days before Oakland ended another disappointing season with a home loss to Jacksonville.

``I mean there is a lot of stuff that goes on here, and it ain't right,'' he said at the time. ``I am not feeling too good here. I am not happy with the organization. Things ain't good right now. I know that.''

Buchanon said he spoke with Raiders personnel chief Michael Lombardi late in the season to express his desire to go elsewhere. He was briefly benched last season for poor play, but he also had plenty of impressive moments that showcased his playmaking ability.

Buchanon said little about his time in Oakland and talked mostly of reviving his career with the Texans.

``I don't regret anything,'' said Buchanon, the Raiders' first-round pick in 2002. ``I met a lot of good people out there, and it was a learning experience. That's all I have to say about that.''

Buchanon, who will turn 25 in September, has 11 career interceptions, including four returned for touchdowns, in 36 games. He has averaged 11 yards per punt return with three TDs in three NFL seasons. Last season, Buchanon had 50 tackles and three interceptions, one for a TD, in 14 games.

Buchanon also made his share of mistakes. Against Kansas City last November, the Raiders trailed 24-21 with just under four minutes left when Buchanon returned a punt to Kansas City's 26. Instead of running back to the bench, he sprinted through the end zone, took off his helmet and yelled at fans.

The resulting 15-yard unsportsmanlike penalty pushed Oakland back to the 41, and the Raiders settled for a field goal. Kansas City marched down the field for a field goal of its own and won 27-24.

The addition of Buchanon gives the Texans impressive depth at cornerback, including returning starters Aaron Glenn and Dunta Robinson, the 10th overall pick in 2004. Glenn is a three-time Pro Bowler, and Robinson finished second in voting for NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year.

``It gives us another young corner,'' Texans coach Dom Capers said. ``He's been a productive starter in the NFL. He came in as a very young player and not only has excellent athletic ability, but also is an excellent punt returner in this league.''

Buchanon has already made attempts to ease any concerns about his ability to fit in with a team mostly devoid of brash personalities.

He went to a Houston Rockets game on Wednesday night with Robinson and receiver Andre Johnson, a close friend from their college days at Miami. He talked excitedly about playing on a team with 100 percent participation in its offseason conditioning program.

He even deferred to the 32-year-old Glenn when asked about possible training camp competition for a starting job.

``You can't judge a book by its cover,'' Buchanon said. ``I feel I can adjust to anything.''

[King of 40 Acres]

He went to a Houston Rockets game on Wednesday night with Robinson and receiver Andre Johnson, a close friend from their college days at Miami. He talked excitedly about playing on a team with 100 percent participation in its offseason conditioning program.

He even deferred to the 32-year-old Glenn when asked about possible training camp competition for a starting job.

``You can't judge a book by its cover,'' Buchanon said. ``I feel I can adjust to anything.''

I already like Buchanon - he is starting off with a clean state. I wish the Texans staff will do the same when evaluating his performance with Glenn's. Let the better player fill the role.

[noscrusir]

I hope so.. the poll is still out on this one.

[DieHard Rocket]

Anybody watch KTRH Channel 13 sports tonight?

Bob Allen said that Glenn wasn't happy with the trade at all...don't remember Allen's exact words though. I wasn't really paying too close attention though...I didn't expect it because I thought they were just recapping the Texans pre-draft moves.

"Aaron's reaction was positive," Capers said. "Aaron is a competitor, and he has a lot of confidence in his ability. We had a good meeting. Like with everything, Aaron looks forward to the challenge."

Makes you wonder what's going on here. I don't think Bob Allen named any sources...not sure if he actually talked to Glenn or not. I sure hope its just something that has been fabricated...we really do need 3 solid corners.

[moestavern19]

I eat my previous words.

I wouldn't do this trade if I was the Texans.

[TigerBait]

Here it was. The beginning of the end.

[benchmoochie]

Aaron Glenn lives in my building here in Dallas, TX (Las Colinas). I'm going to have to tell him how much I missed seeing him in a Texans' uniform.

[swilkins]

I'm not sure what they saw in him. Oakland sure as hell didn't have a problem seeing him go. We probably could have traded less.

[RIET]

I'm not sure what they saw in him. Oakland sure as hell didn't have a problem seeing him go. We probably could have traded less.

What they saw in him was his physical skills but he has 0 heart.

Like I said 5 months ago, the Raiders accept/embrace baggage but they didn't accept him. That shouldve been our 1st clue.

Once again, history makes me look good :D

[MykTek]

Aaron didn't do much better on monday nite.... :D

[WinkFan]

I've never seen an NFL player run away from contact like Buchanon. He's the MoT of the NFL.

[Major Malcontent]

"Like I said 5 months ago, the Raiders accept/embrace baggage but they didn't accept him. That shouldve been our 1st clue."


Bingo, the Raiders pride themselves on having guys a taco short of a combo plate as long as they can play football, this guy isn't just a headcase, he's a headcase who can't play.

His idol is Deion Sanders, but he seems to have only developed Deions tackling ability and not his coverage/interception/return ability.

[adeelsiddiqui]

I've never seen an NFL player run away from contact like Buchanon. He's the MoT of the NFL.
I just started following football (coz of fantasy nfl)

and out of all those damn posts, this is the one that i actually understood.

:D

thx

[redgoose]

I just started following football (coz of fantasy nfl)

and out of all those damn posts, this is the one that i actually understood.

:D

thx

Well this thread came back from the dead! Might as well revamp it a tad. I wouldn't mind having Glenn on the team right now. However, i'd still like an offensive line so we can see if we actually drafted a good QB. It's just impossible to judge him vs some like Big Ben who got to take naps in the pockets all day before he threw the ball. :mad:

[IROC it]

Aaron didn't do much better on monday nite.... :D

Looked like the Oilers secondary vs. the Bills didn't it? :mad:

Burn, Baby Burn...

[MykTek]

Looked like the Oilers secondary vs. the Bills didn't it? :mad:

Burn, Baby Burn...

seriously.... thats y i personally like big corners who can bump and run....aaron played like buchanon, gave him a 10-15 yard cushion and ran by him.... atleast now I see y Capers let him go.... we can do the same thing w/ a cheaper and younger guy....i.e. buchanon..... lol

[rrj_gamz]

I've never seen an NFL player run away from contact like Buchanon. He's the MoT of the NFL.

Uh...See Primetime...The difference is DS had speed and athleticism...

[rrj_gamz]

Aaron Glenn lives in my building here in Dallas, TX (Las Colinas). I'm going to have to tell him how much I missed seeing him in a Texans' uniform.

Sorry for the double post, but where in Las Colinas...My G/f lives there as well off MacArthur...

[benchmoochie]

I live off of Las Colinas Blvd caddy corner to the Omni Hotel . (the high rise)

[Agent94]

Looked like the Oilers secondary vs. the Bills didn't it? :mad:

Burn, Baby Burn...

Ohhh that gives me an idea. My new nickname for Buchanon - Disco Inferno.

[Mr. Brightside]

Somewhere, someplace Chad Johnson is getting his sharpie and his check list ready.