It's early, but these Astros are unwatchable

[Rileydog]

I debated whether to post this all day, so here it goes. Yes, I know its early. Yes, I know we're not all that bad. Yes, I know that NJ Rocket is going to be all over this like white on rice.

But, dammit, the astros are unwatchable right now, and I'm one that usually gets overly optimistic about rookies.

1. I hate watching us hit.

- When I see Everett's face. I see Doogie Howser. I think "out" or "weak ass grounder".

- When I see Bagwell at the plate, I start to rub my shoulder like that will help ol Baggy. I think, slow bat, old man, nice guy . . . when is Lamb or Berkman going to replace Baggy at 1B?

- When I see Ensberg at the plate, I think . . . dammit he looks like Bob Stoops, which just makes me madder. I think, why does he step into the bucket when he swings? Why does he take so many pitches down the middle? How does he have a decent batting average for someone that does close to nothing? Is he that freaking amazing with the glove that we just have to play him instead of Lamb?

- When I see Lane and Biggio, I think . . . man, I hope they homer because that's our only shot.

- When I see Luke Scott, I think, other than his cool name Luuuuuke, why is he here? Why are you so fooled on pitches? Why do you miss so many mistake pitches? Is any pitcher afraid of this guy? Why isn't Tim Redding pitching to us?

- When I see Brad Ausmus, I think - man, you really, really suck. Why do I have no hope when you're at the plate? Why do I flip to "Iron Chef"? Why don't we have a better alternative?

- When I see Wily Taveras, I think, Willy Mays Hayes. Then I think, well, at least this guy is kinda exciting. I actually feel kind of good when he's at the plate.

- When we're pitching, I think, dude, you better be perfect. Dude, a runner, bring in the infield. Walk the batter to set up a force at home.

For all of these reasons, the Astros are kind of unwatchable right now. I'm a very optimistic person but man, it stinks. When we won, I felt like we won b/c everything fell into place. Like we beat the odds.

I hate that. I kinda wished we stunk for real . . . that we didn't have this stellar pitching to keep us alive in games to prolong the agony.

I know I'm being whiny but never have I wanted to tune out so early in the season. I'll keep the games on but I'll be playing hide and seek with my kiddo at the same time.

[fya]

What do you feel when you think about Mclane?

[gucci888]

I finally decided to watch most of a Astros game lastnight vs. the Braves and I can firmly say it will probably be my last (unless we pull off a streak like last season).

The Astros looked pathetic the last 3 innings. We had lead off doubles going on, we had bases loaded and everything, and well, ya'll know what happened.

[Rileydog]

Originally posted by fya
What do you feel when you think about Mclane?

I'm a fan first, so I'm ticked that he didn't break the bank for Beltran and give him the no trade clause. Maybe Boras would have just used that to get more from the Mets. Maybe not.

But Beltran would change this club by himself. I could watch for no other reason except that Beltran is a human highlight reel on both sides of the ball.

I think that McLane went after Beltran in earnest at the start, but when the bidding got high, he found an excuse to back out.

[Groogrux]

The no-trade clause thing didn't become an issue until the last day. That was a few days after Beltran told Taveras he wasn't coming back, basically.

Beltran wasn't going to be an Astros unless we offered close to $18-20 mil/per. Quit thinking it was all about the no-trade clause.

[bigboymumu]

We need two bats (lefties). 2 relievers!

[Surfguy]

I agree this team is boring as hell to watch. We came out of the starting gates pretty good and things just went all to hell. While we have good starting pitching, it isn't helping when we can't even score a run to put us in a position to win. Clemens is great but we make too many pitchers look like Clemens when their pitching against us.

If we don't turn it around soon, then we're going to find ourselves in a hole so big we won't be able to get out. And, I don't think Berkman is some savior that's just going to come back and instantly fix everything.

This team needs to quit batting scared and playing like a bunch of rooks mixed in with a bunch of senior citizens. It's pathetic.

[msn]

Originally posted by gucci888
I finally decided to watch most of a Astros game lastnight vs. the Braves and I can firmly say it will probably be my last (unless we pull off a streak like last season).
bandwaggoner.

[UTweezer]

wdf man, it's like 2 weeks into the season. Quit complaining. Wait till Lance gets back and give us 80 more games to gel and if things are still "unwatchable" then start bitching...

[rezdawg]

The offense is horrendous. Yet, I will watch every game that I can. I know we are better than this.

[isoman2kx]

hey... what other team this season has been shutout twice through 9 innings and lost 1-0 twice in extra innings?

what's that...... no one?????

damn right bitches :)

[BMoney]

Originally posted by Rocketman95
The no-trade clause thing didn't become an issue until the last day. That was a few days after Beltran told Taveras he wasn't coming back, basically.

Beltran wasn't going to be an Astros unless we offered close to $18-20 mil/per. Quit thinking it was all about the no-trade clause.

The Astros made a mistake in putting all of their eggs in one basket. The minute Boras let Omar Minaya meet Beltran in person and refused the same request from Mclane the Astros management should have given him their last, best offer and given a deadline *before* Christmas. They let it linger on and they were played.

[Uprising]

Then don't watch.

[Refman]

Originally posted by Rileydog
I'm a fan first, so I'm ticked that he didn't break the bank for Beltran and give him the no trade clause. Maybe Boras would have just used that to get more from the Mets. Maybe not.

But Beltran would change this club by himself. I could watch for no other reason except that Beltran is a human highlight reel on both sides of the ball.

I think that McLane went after Beltran in earnest at the start, but when the bidding got high, he found an excuse to back out.
I've got an idea...why don't we just all adopt the party line thrown out there by Scott Boras? Geez.

If it wasn't the no-trade clause, it would have been something else. Bottom line: if Beltran wanted to be an Astro, he'd still be here. He flatly didn't want to come back.

[Dennis2112]

Originally posted by BMoney
The Astros made a mistake in putting all of their eggs in one basket. The minute Boras let Omar Minaya meet Beltran in person and refused the same request from Mclane the Astros management should have given him their last, best offer and given a deadline *before* Christmas. They let it linger on and they were played.


I'm sure that you know this but it was reported that about a month before the deadline(before Christmas) Drayton wanted to end it with a joint announcement that a deal could not be reached. But Borass said wait, you are still in the running.

Did Borass use Drayton? Yes

Was Drayton wrong for trying to pursue Beltran? No

If Drayton did not pursue until the last minute, would he be called a cheapskate and a snake? Yes

Do you think that bringing up 5-10 deal-breaker demands in the 11th hour is a sign of not wanting to stay with the Astros? Yes


Bottom line is that Beltran wanted the Yanks and the Yanks(already having dealt with Borass) said don't call us , we'll call you.

After the Astros deadline passed and no other really serious offers for Beltran, he had no chioce but to sign with the Mutts. All the leaverage was gone.


But this is all ancient history. Wily T is the Astros CF.

[kaleidosky]

we all know drayton was

damned if he went after beltran and didn't sign him (as some of you say now),
damned if he went after him and signed him for too much (i wouldn't be happy at $18/yr, which is what it woulda taken i bet for us),
damned if he didn't go after him,
damned if he went after him AND other options (because then when we didn't sign him, people would say it was because he was pursuing other options instead of concentrating)


POINT is, a lot of people want to be upset, regardless, about these decisions. Move on. Be happy we don't have a ridiculously cheap owner and a team like KC or TB. (and in fact, our team has been one of the most consistently good over a long period)


----

On this year, please. Learn to enjoy different types of baseball. Yes, we're not that great offensively yet (hopefully that'll change with Berkman and rookies growing up)... but enjoy a pitcher's game! 1-0 games...man those are exciting and some solid baseball games. Sad we didn't pull em out, and even sadder that we couldn't drive in the RISP. But that's some great baseball our team has already shown us.

Sorry if you're in love with the homer or the offense...go back to your bandwagon and rejoin when you feel like it. If you're gonna do that, don't claim to be a fan and post here. Not gonna watch "unless they go on a run like last year" ? How spoiled are you? Reminds me of Braves fans..which is just sick.

[Fegwu]

Originally posted by Rileydog
It's early, but these Astros are unwatchable


I agree for the large part. Indeed for many reason it is hard to watch. For me it starts with seeing Adam at the top of the lineup. To me there is absolutely nothing more ridiculous as that. At this point I will take a Bidge at the top over Adam.

It is an injustice to the skill-set that Adam is blessed with (hitting wise) - which is definitely not leadoff at least at this point of his career. If we did not have any other option then that will be another issue. [I will go to bed hoping that Adam is not the leadoff guy 'morrow]

And for crying out loud, Adam is not a kid anymore so his confidence will not be shot/shattered if he is moved to the #6 or #7 slot. I am seriously begining to really dislike Garner for this and a few other reasons. And if we are going to use this season to rebuild I hope we go with a different manager to lead us through such a period. I can understand and appreciate the move earlier this season but now it has entered the unfortunate realm of stubbornness (obstination is the word that aptly expresses my sentiment).

Now as for Purpura and our billionaire owner........bleh

[BigM]

as an astros fan last night sucked but how can anyone like baseball and find that game boring? clemens and hudson going at it like that is about as good as it gets.

i feel really sorry for the people who STILL believe that line about the no-trade clause. there was no way that was what kept us from retaining beltran.

[Bank_Shot]

The Astros suck.

Time to raise the white flag. Trade Clemens to the Yankees. Tank the rest of the reason (only about 150 games, right?).

[rezdawg]

Originally posted by BigM
as an astros fan last night sucked but how can anyone like baseball and find that game boring? clemens and hudson going at it like that is about as good as it gets.

Totally agree. It sucks being on the losing end of that one. We had our chances but failed to capitalize. In any case, that was one hell of a duel. 2 pitchers that just dominated, you cant beat that. It felt like a playoff game.

[redgoose]

What pissed me off about the Beltran situation is what we could of got instead. We could of signed 2 superstars. Say, Sexson who put the dent in the flag pole, and Beltre. Or there was J.D. Drew, Nomar, Kent would play at a discount, and then theres still a few others. i would have rather has 2 starts than 1. Also, Clemens wouldn't have asked for so much money if he knew we weren't gonna stink.

I'm not that upset about not overpaying for Beltran, it's the fact we didn't add any bats or even a set up man. :mad:

[MadMax]

It's AWESOME when "fans" tune out after 12 games!!!

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fan

fan2 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fn)
n.
An ardent devotee; an enthusiast.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Short for fanatic.]

I've defended Houston "fans" before....I think I'm done doing that.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by redgoose
What pissed me off about the Beltran situation is what we could of got instead. We could of signed 2 superstars. Say, Sexson who put the dent in the flag pole, and Beltre. Or there was J.D. Drew, Nomar, Kent would play at a discount, and then theres still a few others. i would have rather has 2 starts than 1. Also, Clemens wouldn't have asked for so much money if he knew we weren't gonna stink.

I'm not that upset about not overpaying for Beltran, it's the fact we didn't add any bats or even a set up man. :mad:

1. Every player you mentioned signed with a team BEFORE the Beltran deadline;

2. Kent would NOT play at a discount. He grew up a Dodger fan and they offered him a deal no one was going to match over a longer term than anyone was willing to give...had we given him a comparabe deal, we'd have an assload of fans here saying how dumb it is because it doesn't afford Burke is ultimate shot at 2B.

3. Nomar?? Nomar wasn't going anywhere.

[NJRocket]

I actually dont find them unwatchable.....far from it. I tune in to practically every game...and I am at the park for most home games.

I find it painful to watch when we get in situations where we should score but dont....but I watch. Fortunately, last night was not in that category. We got timely hitting...with 2 outs..and coupled it with some darn good pitching.

[NJRocket]

Originally posted by Dennis2112
I'm sure that you know this but it was reported that about a month before the deadline(before Christmas) Drayton wanted to end it with a joint announcement that a deal could not be reached. But Borass said wait, you are still in the running.



and that is why many of us think drayton handled this like a guy who never negotiated with a free agent....its like sitting across the poker table from a guy who looks at your up cards and says "wow, based on those cards, you are really looking good...so i'd stay in it if i were you"...then you push all your chips in only to find out the other guy has a royal flush

[Truth]

I agree with Riley 100%.


Like ... OMG OMG OMG

Why is Everett batting first?
Willy >>>> Adam Everett.

You know things are bad when Brandon Backe pitches and you want him in the 7 spot in the order, in front of Ausmus and Everett.

Why does Luke Scott have a 1956 style haircut?

I love Jason Lane.

Who plays Flag Football at church?

Beltran really messed us over.

[Rileydog]

Guys, guys, guys . . . must clarify.

1. I love old school pitching duels. I'm not a "chicks dig the long ball" fan. The Clemens/Hudson matchup was classic.

2. let's not focus on teh beltran thing. that wasn't the point of my post. I was responding to someone's question. let's not let the beltran debate hijack this thread.

3. Read. My. Post. Carefully. It. Is. In. English.

- I said this team is "unwatchable" but I still keep the game on.
- I said "I want to tune out" but I don't.
- The logical inference is that though the team is "unwatchable" I still watch.

Isn't that the definition of being a real fan? I mean really!. The start of each game renews our hope. But I'm greeted by Adam Everett at the start of each game. That sucks. But my TV is still on.

So, for those that are on my back, and the backs of those that share my feelings, get off. I gave a very clear disclaimer that I know I'm whining. But real fans aren't just blind homers. I can talk about the team's weaknesses. And if there's something I don't like about the team, I'll say so. Don't take the unfounded flying leap that I'm not a true fan or just a bandwagoner.

[msn]

Originally posted by Rileydog
- I said this team is "unwatchable" but I still keep the game on.
- I said "I want to tune out" but I don't.
- The logical inference is that though the team is "unwatchable" I still watch.

Isn't that the definition of being a real fan? I mean really!. The start of each game renews our hope. But I'm greeted by Adam Everett at the start of each game. That sucks. But my TV is still on.

So, for those that are on my back, and the backs of those that share my feelings, get off. I gave a very clear disclaimer that I know I'm whining.
My "bandwaggoner" reference was not directed at you, but at someone who clearly said, "I won't watch another game unless they go on a winning streak" (which is textbook bandwagonning).

Anyways, sorry if it felt personal.

But real fans aren't just blind homers. I can talk about the team's weaknesses. And if there's something I don't like about the team, I'll say so.
I agree with this sentiment 100%. A lot of times, when something is just whining, I jump in and say so. But it doesn't mean whiners aren't "fans". (No, I'm not calling you a "whiner" either.)

The team's offense is certainly weak. AE is not a good leadoff hitter. The Beltran thing backfired. Despite all that, I think they have a shot this year, and I'm looking forward to watching the games.

[pariah]

RD,

Good Post!

I see what you're saying. I'm a true fan, but I feel the same as you do. This type of baseball exemplifies the revenue/expense quandry in which the Marlins endured when they won the World Series. They damn near couldn't sell out their own stadium during their playoff run during "the year of the Beckett". Also see David v. Goliath.

As painful as it is, I'm kind of drawn to this brand of baseball because I equate our current Astros loosely with that which Billy Beane put in place as the basis Michael Lewis' "Money Ball". Of course, Beane wouldn't have the highest paid first baseman and wouldn't have forked it over to keep Clemens, so it's not a parrallel to Money Ball...it just feels that way when I watch the Astros.

I've been to three home games and the vault at my manor would suggest that I'll see at least twelve more this season....if only my buy decision was post the 20-for-$100 (or whatever they've got going) marketing program...

Go Stros! Thx for the post, RD.

[franchise?..NOT]

To me, the thing that makes this team unwatchable is Bagwell and his ridiculous contract. I can't blame McLane for giving it to him or Bagwell for taking it. It came about because of extending him in the same year that Hicks gave A-Rod "the contract" and Bags, (and Hidalgo) befitted mightily. Now that Bagwell is playing at below a journeyman level, it hurts to watch him on so many levels, the money, seeing him make a fool of himself for money, (which anyone of us would gladly do for $34 mil), and watching the 'Stros hope that he can carry the team when everyone knows that the guy just does not have another full season in him. That is what is tough to watch about the Astros.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by franchise?..NOT
Now that Bagwell is playing at below a journeyman level,

wait...what??

what journeymen batted scored over 100 runs last season, with 27 HR's and 89 RBI's??? that's not a journeyman. granted, that doesn't make him the top 1B in the league. but you could do a lot worse than that.

[msn]

Originally posted by MadMax
wait...what??

what journeymen batted scored over 100 runs last season, with 27 HR's and 89 RBI's??? that's not a journeyman. granted, that doesn't make him the top 1B in the league. but you could do a lot worse than that.
Fans in Houston were spoiled to a Hall of Fame 1B for a decade. Now that he's "just" a 90-RBI a year guy and hits "only" 25 or 30 dingers a year, people say stupid things like that.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by msn
Fans in Houston were spoiled to a Hall of Fame 1B for a decade. Now that he's "just" a 90-RBI a year guy and hits "only" 25 or 30 dingers a year, people say stupid things like that.

yeah, i've kinda gathered that.

[PippenAintEZ]

This is going to be one of those threads that you look back on and laugh. I understand some fans might be frusterated, but then again there are a lot of positives thus far. All of our losses have been by only 1 run, which means we were in every games and had a good chance of winning. I see a few more runs scored when Lance gets back. I don't think he is gonna do it all on his own, but with Lance protecting Bagwell in the lineup, I think Bagwell will see better pitches, which will hopefully raise his batting average and power numbers. My theory has always been this: It's always easy to be a "fan" when your teams is winning, but the TRUE FANS stand by their team when their struggling or things aren't going as good as they should be. For all of you that think the Stros are unwatchable, then don't freakin watch. It's just like the fans that leave in like the 7th or 8th inning when we are down a few runs. The beauty of being a fan is believing, and if you don't believe, then don't be a fan.

[Rileydog]

Pippen, You obviously did not read my followup post.

We're watching. We don't like what we see, but we're still watching. Read. It. Is. In. English. Si es necessario o si prefieres, puedo hablar en espanol.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by Rileydog
Pippen, You obviously did not read my followup post.

We're watching. We don't like what we see, but we're still watching. Read. It. Is. In. English. Si es necessario o si prefieres, puedo hablar en espanol.

to be fair, he only used the words you put in there. you called them unwatchable. then you said you were watching them. are you under oath?? :)

[msn]

Originally posted by PippenAintEZ
TRUE FANS
I am as intolerant of whining and other forms of Internet and radio-talk-show mindless drivel as anyone, but I disagree, 10000000%, with all the bitter diatribes about "TRUE FANS!!". Call someone a whiner. Call someone an idiot. Tell someone they're playing four aces short of a full deck. But, regardless of how consistent the drone of the whining is, how close to accurate or how numbingly, mindlessly stupid it is, the whiners most certainly are "TRUE FANS!!!", or else they wouldn't give a rat's behind enough to whine about it at all.

[Rileydog]

Originally posted by MadMax
to be fair, he only used the words you put in there. you called them unwatchable. then you said you were watching them. are you under oath?? :)

Ahhhh, I deal with attorneys all day long and I gotta deal with a witty one on Clutchfans. What's your practice area? Must be a litigator. Deal lawyers have no personality.

I'm selectively but generally under oath when I post here. Pippen thinks you're not a fan unless you're a homer. Pippen thinks you can't be a fan if you complain. Aw, hell, I'm just repeating my last post.

Pippen, stop the madness. Reading is your friend.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by Rileydog
Ahhhh, I deal with attorneys all day long and I gotta deal with a witty one on Clutchfans. What's your practice area? Must be a litigator. Deal lawyers have no personality.

I'm selectively but generally under oath when I post here. Pippen thinks you're not a fan unless you're a homer. Pippen thinks you can't be a fan if you complain. Aw, hell, I'm just repeating my last post.

Pippen, stop the madness. Reading is your friend.

who's Pippen?

i'm a litigator and i do transactional work. if you want to hire my services that would be sweet. and by sweet, i mean totally awesome. :D

[SamCassell]

Originally posted by MadMax
and by sweet, i mean totally awesome.
Real Ultimate Power reference? The purpose of the ninja is to flip out and kill people.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by SamCassell
Real Ultimate Power reference? The purpose of the ninja is to flip out and kill people.

honestly, i don't know where it's ultimately from. the guys on the morning show on sportsradio 610 say it all the time and it sounds funny to me.

[PippenAintEZ]

You got me, I actually stop reading the posts 3/4 into it, because it was all repetitive. And then for some reason it got into the whole Beltran debate, which at this point, even though is early, is stupid because Willy T is putting up comparable numbers to Beltran. I could look it up, but I believe Beltran has a few more homers, and other than that thats about it. Actually lemme check it out. The format will prolly screw up but here we go anyway:

Beltran 2005 Salary: $11,571,429
YEAR G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS
2005 14 56 7 16 1 0 2 8 6 13 1 1 .286 .355 .411 .766

Willy T 2005 Salary: $316,000
YEAR G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS
2005 13 42 6 12 1 1 1 3 4 8 4 1 .286 .354 .429 .783

Now I know it is way too early in the year to make these comparisions, but it's just to prove a point. Those numbers are very similar, you proly give Beltran the slight edge. But this slight edge is NOT worth $105 million. I'll take Willy T and 100 mil at this point. Don't get me wrong, I have been a Beltran fan since his days at KC, and I was upset and disappointed when we couldn't sign him, but maybe, just maybe it will end up being a blessing in disguise.

And now back to the whining. I totally agree, being a fan and loving the team you root for comes with whining at times and pure joy at other times. But to me saying a team is "unwatchable" is basically turning your back on the team when they are just struggling a little bit. I mean guys, we are just 6-7, its not the end of the world. And if there is anything we should have learned last year is that it is not how you start, it's how you finish. And about the TRUE fans, you can complain here and there, but back to my example earlier, as long as you stay throughout the whole game you're alright by me. But if you are a "fan" and leave in the 7th because we're down by a few runs, that doesn't make sense to me. And like I said earlier, if the Astros are almost "unwatchable," then it's pretty simple, don't watch.

And guys I am not trying to start anything here, because if we are all Astros fans that's a good thing. However, if there is a point you disagree with, let me know and I will try and clarify what I am trying to say. And sorry, I don't know Spanish.

[SamCassell]

Lance and John will lead you down the dark path. http://www.realultimatepower.net/

[MadMax]

Originally posted by SamCassell
Lance and John will lead you down the dark path. http://www.realultimatepower.net/

holy crap..this is beyond brilliant!!!

Q: Why is everyone so obsessed about ninjas?

A: Ninjas are the ultimate paradox. On the one hand they don't give a crap, but on the other hand, ninjas are very careful and precise.



Q: I heard that ninjas are always cruel or mean. What's their problem?

A: Whoever told you that is a total liar. Just like other mammals, ninjas can be mean OR totally awesome.



Q: What do ninjas do when they're not cutting off heads or flipping out?

A: Most of their free time is spent flying, but sometime they stab. (Ask Mark if you don't believe me.)

[msn]

Originally posted by PippenAintEZ
But to me saying a team is "unwatchable" is basically turning your back on the team when they are just struggling a little bit.... And about the TRUE fans, you can complain here and there, but back to my example earlier, as long as you stay throughout the whole game you're alright by me. But if you are a "fan" and leave in the 7th because we're down by a few runs...
See, I just believe that talk of "TRUE FANS!!" is juvenile hogwash. "Fandom", first of all, is absolute frivolity anyway, so what does it matter if someone doesn't measure up to your standards in one of the non-essential areas of life?

Secondly, "unwatchable" does not equate to "turning one's back on the team". The Charles Barkely era of Rocketball, IMO, was completely unwatchable. Of course I watched and listened to every minute I could catch. But, watching the ball go to the low left post *EVERY* freaking play, and watching Charles's fat ass dribble up to his nose for twenty seconds before a desperation pass out to a covered swing man who wasn't shooting well anyway: that was "unwatchable". It doesn't mean I didn't watch; it means it was an EYESORE. Painful. Boring. Horrible. Do you see the difference?

[mateo]

Unwatchable? I disagree. I just ponied up $149 so I can watch em here in NYC.

[Austin70]

I for one am finding the unwathable, my cable company didn't pick up all of the extra games and I cant WATCH all of them.:p

[Rileydog]

Dammit, since I posted this, I've had the TV on but haven't watched pitch by pitch, like usual. Now they're starting to look watchable. but I'm too superstitious to start watching pitch by pitch again. I'm stuck with the TV on, playing with my daughter or video games. I gotta stay away until the bats cool down.

Personally, I think the stros read my thread and took it as a personal challenge. I accept full credit for the latest surge.

(la la la la, I'm not watching . . .). what terrific pitching by our starters. Lane and Taveras sure are exciting!! la la la, I'm not watching.

[PippenAintEZ]

as long as it's working, stick with it man...