Minn. Teen Goes on Rampage; Eight Killed in school

[Houstonrocketss]

I did some checking and this school has 300 students only!!! how bizarre

RED LAKE, Minn. - A high school student went on a shooting rampage on this Indian reservation Monday, killing his grandparents at their home and then five people at his school, "grinning and waving" as he fired, authorities and witnesses said. The gunman was later found shot to death.


It was the nation's worst school shooting since the Columbine massacre in 1999.


Students pleaded with the gunman to stop shooting.


"You could hear a girl saying, 'No, Jeff, quit, quit. Leave me alone. What are you doing?" Sondra Hegstrom told The Pioneer of Bemidji, using the name of the suspected shooter.


Before the shootings at Red Lake High School, the suspect's grandparents were shot in their home and died later.


Four students were killed and two others critically wounded. Also killed were a teacher and a security guard, FBI (news - web sites) spokesman Paul McCabe said at a news conference in Minneapolis.


Hegstrom described the gunman grinning and waving at a student his gun was pointed at, then swiveling to shoot someone else. "I looked him in the eye and ran in the room, and that's when I hid," she told The Pioneer.


McCabe declined to talk about a possible connection between the suspect and the couple killed at the home, but Red Lake Fire Director Roman Stately said they were the grandparents of the shooter. He identified the shooter's grandfather as Daryl Lussier, a longtime officer with the Red Lake Police Department, and said Lussier's guns may have been used in the shootings.


Stately said the shooter had two handguns and a shotgun.


"After he shot a security guard, he walked down the hallway shooting and went into a classroom where he shot a teacher and more students," Stately told Minneapolis television station KARE.


Students and a teacher at the scene, Diane Schwanz, said the shooter tried to break down a door to get into a room where some students were.


"I just got on the floor and called the cops," Schwanz told the Pioneer. "I was still just half-believing it."


Ashley Morrison, another student, took refuge in a classroom. With the shooter banging on the door, she dialed her mother on her cell phone. Her mother, Wendy Morrison, said she could hear gunshots on the line.


"'Mom, he's trying to get in here and I'm scared,'" Ashley Morrison told her mother.


Schwanz was the teacher in that room. She said, "I just got down on the floor and (said), 'Kids, down on the ground, under the benches!'" She said she called police on her cell phone.


All of the dead students were found in one room. One of them was a boy believed to be the shooter, McCabe said. He would not comment on reports that the boy shot himself and said it was too early to speculate on a motive.


Fourteen to 15 other students were injured, including two critically, McCabe said.





The school was evacuated after the shootings and locked down for investigation, McCabe said.

"It will probably take us throughout the night to really put the whole picture together," he said.

It was the nation's worst school shooting since two students at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo., killed 12 students and a teacher and wounded 23 before killing themselves on April 20, 1999.

The last apparent fatal school shootings involving a student also happened in Minnesota in September 2003, when two students were killed at Rocori High School in Cold Spring. Classmate John Jason McLaughlin, who was 15 at the time of the shooting, awaits trial in the case.

That shooting was the first major incident reported since 2001.

Red Lake High School, on the Red Lake Indian Reservation, has about 300 students, according to its Web site.

The reservation is about 240 miles north of the Twin Cities. It is home to the Red Lake Chippewa Tribe, one of the poorest in the state. According to the 2000 census, 5,162 people lived on the reservation, and all but 91 were full-blooded Indians.

[VinceCarter]

just wondering.... do shootings like this happen across the world??? i don't ever hear of this stuff from Europe-Asia and other places??? is it me or is this a problem in the U.S?

[bigtexxx]

Originally posted by VinceCarter
just wondering.... do shootings like this happen across the world??? i don't ever hear of this stuff from Europe-Asia and other places??? is it me or is this a problem in the U.S?

It happens around the world, also. Maybe not with the frequency of here, though. There was a terrible one a couple of years ago in Germany where 18 people were shot dead. There was also one in Alberta Canada a few years back, as well.

[Harrisment]

Wow.....thats horrible. :(

[Isabel]

Shades of Columbine and all those others that happened around the same time. :( I had hoped that it was over.

+ for the victims and families

[kwik_e_mart]

You might wanna change the title... cuz 10 are now dead in the shooting... what a horrible incident!

While cops in the Canadian province of New Brunswick prevented another Columbine-type shooting at a local highschool that was scheduled at the anniversary of the incident, now we see another one happening...

There is definitely something wrong with the North American school system as we see oppressed students performing or trying to perform Columbine-wannabe stunts over and over again in different towns across US and Canada...

Bullying is a big issue at stake... and if the bullied aren't dealt with properly, we cannot guarantee these people doing the same thing now and six years ago when they feel they are out of hope and their voices have fallen into deaf ears as schools trying to cover them so that their reputations are not tarnished...

[Sishir Chang]

In the past two days there's been two stories making national news out of Minnesota.

Both were about boys in highschool.

One was about a boy who hit an incredible shot in the state highschool basketball championship.

The other was about a boy who killed several of his own family and classmates.

Its a sad day here in the Star of the North State.....

[Lil Pun]

Very sad. My girl went to Westside and was actually at school when that shooting took place. :(

[DaDakota]

Originally posted by bigtexxx
It happens around the world, also. Maybe not with the frequency of here, though. There was a terrible one a couple of years ago in Germany where 18 people were shot dead. There was also one in Alberta Canada a few years back, as well.

Not NEARLY as often as it does here in the USA.

Because guns are not as easy to get around the world as they are here.

DD

[Kam]

in Japan, they like to use knives.

[arno_ed]

Originally posted by Lil Pun
Very sad. My girl went to Westside and was actually at school when that shooting took place. :(
damn that is scary.
(p.s. is this the girl Your thread is about? or have you found another one)

This has not yet happened in the netherlands, There have been some teacher killed by students in holland, i think2 or 3 in the last couple of years.

[Oski2005]

I wonder if there were any incidents of kids shooting up school houses in the 1800's?

I didn't watch any news yesterday, but watching CNN and Fox right now and this doesn't seem to be getting the same coverage that Columbine did. It's all about Schiavo right now.

[Surfguy]

Since this happened on an Indian reservation, I'm sure America's collective and selective conscience will soon forget all about it if our past treatment of American-Indians are any indication. I don't think this will be nearly as big as Columbine not just because Columbine was worse...but because Columbine happened in a white, upscale American school.

[LegendZ3]

Originally posted by VinceCarter
just wondering.... do shootings like this happen across the world??? i don't ever hear of this stuff from Europe-Asia and other places??? is it me or is this a problem in the U.S?

Not as frequently as in the U.S., thanks to little policy called Gun Controll.

[Agent94]

Originally posted by Oski2005
I wonder if there were any incidents of kids shooting up school houses in the 1800's?

I doubt it. There was not any forced schooling in the 1800's. Plus the school experience was completely different. The school system of today is a factory designed to create compliant citizens. It is understandable that a few defects come out of that system.

[Hippieloser]

Originally posted by Agent94
I doubt it. There was not any forced schooling in the 1800's. Plus the school experience was completely different. The school system of today is a factory designed to create compliant citizens. It is understandable that a few defects come out of that system.

Not understandable that they can get their hands on guns, though.

[sLaNd B a L L a]

why isn't this getting the press that columbine got?

[Sishir Chang]

Originally posted by sLaNd B a L L a
why isn't this getting the press that columbine got?

Because its on a res rather than a suburb.

Here in Minnesota we have one of the largest Native American populations in the US and there still is a lot of racism towards them. In recent years with controversy over the casinos and native hunting rights there's been continued animosity towards natives.

[Agent94]

How much history do you know? I don't own any guns and I don't really like them. However, if we lose the right to own guns, we lose the ultimate check against government power.


Originally posted by Hippieloser
Not understandable that they can get their hands on guns, though.

[No Worries]

Originally posted by Agent94
How much history do you know? I don't own any guns and I don't really like them. However, if we lose the right to own guns, we lose the ultimate check against government power.
We lose the right to shoot the elected bast*rds? Hmmm.

[bobrek]

Originally posted by sLaNd B a L L a
why isn't this getting the press that columbine got?

It is on the front page of the major Internet sites. It was the lead story on various National news networks. Folks are going to bring in the "reservation" aspect, but a reason it may not be getting as much TV coverage is the location. Red Lake is out in the boondocks, Columbine is essentially a suburb of Denver. It's easier to get a number of press vehicles to Denver than it is to Red Lake Minnesota.

[VinceCarter]

is gun control the main reason to why its a big problem in the U.S?

there are a lot of third world countries where you could get guns easier than in the states!...so in my Opinion i don't think it can only be accessibility reasons.

the only reason i could think of is the attention given to television/movies ... too much violence shown at a young age... not enough restriction to information towards kids....

[Sishir Chang]

Originally posted by Agent94
How much history do you know? I don't own any guns and I don't really like them. However, if we lose the right to own guns, we lose the ultimate check against government power.

Good luck stopping an M-1 tank with your 12 gauge.

Unfortunately since the dawn of mechanized warfare the idea of personal fire arms being a check against a tyranical US government has become anachronistic.

[JayZ750]

Why do kids always panick and hide under benches? I mean, with two people (Columbine), it may have been different, but here, it is pretty simple. If you are in a room, some lunatic kid comes in and starts spraying gunfire, if you are in a position to take him out, do it. Surely there was some male (teacher, football player, etc.) who at some point in this incident was behind the shooter to enough of a degree that he should have tried something. Must be scary, but there is no way my ass is hiding behind a bench while some dude trys to come in a room to shoot me. Hide behind the door, take him out when he comes in.

[Sishir Chang]

While I think gun control is a factor I think its way too simplistic to say that access to guns is the only factor.

After Columnbine I thought long and hard about what I was like in highschool and was shocked that I had a lot of similarities in my attitudes to the perpetrators. I think in general teenage boys are more prone to violence than women or other male age groups. I think this explains why boys do things like engage in aggressive sportsl, become soldiers and fight with each other.

Also I think their are big problems with our culture and how adolescents are expected to grow into adults. In many ways our youth obsessed culture puts too much stress on being young and in highschool. Many teens get to feeling that their life is over if they are successful or popular while in highschool. Also as a society we have lost or diminished most of our institutions and rituals that provide direction for becoming an adult. We have both fetishized being a teenager while also undercutting support for shepherding teens into adulthood.

Another problem is that we've also fetishized violence and in most instances portray it on a juvenile level. This is partially a function that we live in a very safe society so violence becomes more attractive because even though we see it portrayed all the time in media its not something that we encounter in our real lives. Like sex the more its celebrated on one hand while denied on the other the more likely is it to be expressed in the worst ways.

Given these pressures and uncertainties I'm not surprised that angry confused teens turn to violence. As for solutions I don't have any. We can talk about returning our society to more rigid social mores but that would mean also sacrificing a lot of the freedoms that we take for granted now. Anyway with a free media and easy access to a broad range of information I don't think it would work.

The only solutions that I can see is one where teenagers, particularly boys, can be given outlets to express violence in a way where they also understand the consequences of it which would rule out video games. At the same time that teens learn to look much further and realize that there is far more to life beyond highschool.

[Agent94]

I will take a hundred million people with guns against a few thousand tanks.

Originally posted by Sishir Chang
Good luck stopping an M-1 tank with your 12 gauge.

Unfortunately since the dawn of mechanized warfare the idea of personal fire arms being a check against a tyranical US government has become anachronistic.

[111chase111]

Originally posted by Sishir Chang
Good luck stopping an M-1 tank with your 12 gauge.

Unfortunately since the dawn of mechanized warfare the idea of personal fire arms being a check against a tyranical US government has become anachronistic.

The Iraqi insurgents seem to be doing a good job with their improvised weapons vs. our M-1 tanks. A well armed society could easily play havic with an mechanized army provided the army cared about limiting casualties and limiting collateral damage.

Of course, if they (the mechanized army) didn't care they could just drop an atomic bomb. Game over.

[FranchiseBlade]

Originally posted by 111chase111
The Iraqi insurgents seem to be doing a good job with their improvised weapons vs. our M-1 tanks. A well armed society could easily play havic with an mechanized army provided the army cared about limiting casualties and limiting collateral damage.

Of course, if they (the mechanized army) didn't care they could just drop an atomic bomb. Game over. It is their explosives and mortars more than their rifles. The mines IED's, mortar fire, and suicide bombings do way more damage than the rifles.

[Sishir Chang]

Originally posted by Agent94
I will take a hundred million people with guns against a few thousand tanks.

We have a hard time getting a 100 mil people to vote let alone put their lives on the line against tanks.

If you are concerned about government tyranny the far better route is to become politically active. Organize and most importantly fundraise for candidates and causes you support. If you want something more hands on with the prevalence of media non-violent civil disobedience is far more powerful than violent resistance and looks better than holing up in your compound exchanging fire with the Feds.

[Red Chocolate]

Originally posted by Agent94
I will take a hundred million people with guns against a few thousand tanks.

This is the most absurd statement I've heard in quite some time, thanks for the laugh. Interesting how the people advocating gun ownership rights seem to generally come across as huge idiots.

[lpbman]

I dunno, there are some serious -legal- weapons that could do damage to, not M1's or Bradleys but just about everything else

i.e. The Ferret (http://ferret50.com/ferret50_conversion.html)

the above would put a nice hole in an engine block from long range

but this is way off topic

[aghast]

Originally posted by Agent94
I will take a hundred million people with guns against a few thousand tanks.

I don't care how many paper targets the Michigan militias collectively collate, all the guns in the US didn't stop Alien/Sedition acts, Japanese-American internment camps, McCarthyism, some of the more far-reaching provisos of the Patriot Act.


Notice how the ubiquity of firearms among Iraq's citizenry did little to prevent Hussein's brand of tyranny. Kind of undermines that old saw.

[Sishir Chang]

Getting the thread somewhat back on track.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7292684/

Native Americans
criticize Bush’s silence
School shooting response contrasted with Schiavo case intervention

MINNEAPOLIS, Minn. - Native Americans across the country -- including tribal leaders, academics and rank-and-file tribe members -- voiced anger and frustration Thursday that President Bush has responded to the second-deadliest school shooting in U.S. history with silence.

Three days after 16-year-old Jeff Weise killed nine members of his Red Lake tribe before taking his own life, grief-stricken American Indians complained that the White House has offered little in the way of sympathy for the tribe situated in the uppermost region of Minnesota.

"From all over the world we are getting letters of condolence, the Red Cross has come, but the so-called Great White Father in Washington hasn't said or done a thing," said Clyde Bellecourt, a Chippewa Indian who is the founder and national director of the American Indian Movement here. "When people's children are murdered and others are in the hospital hanging on to life, he should be the first one to offer his condolences. . . . If this was a white community, I don't think he'd have any problem doing that."

Weise's victims included his grandfather and five teenagers; seven other students were wounded, and two of them remain in serious condition in a hospital in Fargo, N.D.

White House spokesman Scott McClellan, in an informal discussion with reporters Tuesday, said: "Our thoughts and prayers are with the families of those who were killed."

"I hope that he would say something," said Victoria Graves, a cultural educator at Red Lake Elementary School on the reservation. "It's important that there's acknowledgment of the tragedy. It's important he sees the tribes are out here. We need help."

'Very telling' response
The reaction to Bush's silence was particularly bitter given his high-profile, late-night intervention on behalf of Terri Schiavo, the brain-damaged Florida woman caught in a legal battle over whether her feeding tube should be reinserted.

"The fact that Bush preempted his vacation to say something about Ms. Schiavo and here you have 10 native people gunned down and he can't take time to speak is very telling," said David Wilkins, interim chairman of the Department of American Indian Studies at the University of Minnesota and a member of the North Carolina-based Lumbee tribe.

"He has not been real visible in Indian country," said former senator Ben Nighthorse Campbell (R-Colo.). "He's got a lot of irons in the fire, but this is important."

Even more alarming than Bush's silence, he said, is the president's proposal to cut $100 million from several Indian programs next year.

After hearing grumbling from tribal leaders, Jacqueline Johnson, executive director of the National Congress of American Indians, called the White House on Thursday to inquire about Bush's silence. "I wanted to make sure the White House is paying attention to this issue," she said. "I wasn't sure."

Asked Thursday about Bush's silence, spokeswoman Dana Perino said that he plans to dedicate part of his Saturday radio address to the Red Lake tragedy and that he is following the case closely through the FBI and the Justice Department.

In the hours after the massacre at Columbine High School in Colorado in 1999, President Bill Clinton publicly expressed his condolences and followed up a few days later with a radio address in which he proposed new gun control measures and school safety projects.

At the Red Lake Urban Indian Office here, volunteer Marilyn Westbrook said she was disappointed but not surprised.

"I don't feel he cares about the American Indian people," said Westbrook, as she collected donations of gas cards and money to enable fellow Red Lake members to make the 260-mile journey to the reservation. "Why hasn't he made any statements about what happened with this shooting?"

Staff writers Dana Hedgpeth in Red Lake and Peter Baker in Waco, Tex., and research editor Lucy Shackelford in Washington contributed to this report.

[StupidMoniker]

Originally posted by Sishir Chang
Getting the thread somewhat back on track.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7292684/

I don't understand why there is so much questioning of the President's concern for Native Americans. This doesn't seem like a Native American issue so much as a school shooting issue. I doubt his response is different than if it were a white school. This president is not one that has had quick public remarks about things (anyone remember the tsunami?). I don't think that means he doesn't care, he just does things differently than some would like.

[Sishir Chang]

This president is not one that has had quick public remarks about things (anyone remember the tsunami?). I don't think that means he doesn't care, he just does things differently than some would like.

He sure had a quick response to the Shiavo case.

[StupidMoniker]

Originally posted by Sishir Chang
He sure had a quick response to the Shiavo case.

I think the Shiavo case has been ongoing for years, and the need for intervention was time sensitive. Expressing regret over what has already happened is different than trying to prevent something that is imminent.