Would you trade Backe for Soriano?

[Luckyazn]

Brandon Backe (26)

Possible 10-12 game winner



Soriano (29)

Strikes out alot but a possible .300 35hr 100rbi 35sb guy


I would because Backe might just be as good as Wade Miller at his best.

Soriano is a proven ALL-STAR.

[bigboymumu]

Yes. I would.

[Luckyazn]

Backe was just "ok" in the regular season and stepped up during the playoff just like Beltran did to boost their value.

Didn't Beltran only batted .225 0hr 8rbi in his last 24 games with the astros??

[PhiSlammaJamma]

I would trade too. Backe looks good, but he is unproven. Brian Williams looked good too way back when. Same type of situation. Both players fell into the rotation. Williams fell apart. Backe may do the same. His upside is limited. Soriano is a proven commodity and the Minute Maid may juice him even more. Plus we need a 2b so it works.

Hate to give up on Backe's grit. But we need some power.

[isoman2kx]

Originally posted by PhiSlammaJamma
I would trade too. Backe looks good, but he is unproven. Brian Williams looked good too way back when. Same type of situation. Both players fell into the rotation. Williams fell apart. Backe may do the same. His upside is limited. Soriano is a proven commodity and the Minute Maid may juice him even more. Plus we need a 2b so it works.



yeah, but who in the world are we going to have in our starting rotation then?

Backe might have limited upside but I'd take that over calling up 3 pitches or a combination of signing/calling up 3 other pitchers

IF clemens does not come back and backe is traded then what does our rotation look like other than

--------------
Oswalt
Pettite
?
?
?
-------------

I'd do the trade too but seems like it'd leave us with a rotation even in more shambles than with the losses of clemens and miller.

[NJRocket]

This could be a classic example of selling high....I'd do it.

[Lil Francis]

I wouldn't. With Clemens retired that would leave us with Roy O, Andy P, and 3 batting pratice pitchers to fill out the rotation. I would rather the Astros put Lane in this deal and maybe a couple of Double A arms. If thats not enough to get Soriano then they should go to plan B.

[NJRocket]

Originally posted by Lil Francis
. If thats not enough to get Soriano then they should go to plan B.

Umm...Forrest....this is plan B

[Rule0001]

Originally posted by Lil Francis
I wouldn't. With Clemens retired that would leave us with Roy O, Andy P, and 3 batting pratice pitchers to fill out the rotation. I would rather the Astros put Lane in this deal and maybe a couple of Double A arms. If thats not enough to get Soriano then they should go to plan B.


that's what I'm thinking.... burke or lane and then a prospect or two

but not backe......

hell who's after pettite oswalt and backe?

you take backe away..... and then you've got exactly that... 3 batting practice pitchers to play toss with the other team on a daily basis.

[RocketFan007]

To be honest, I think I'd rather give Burke a shot then trade for Soriano. While he hasn't proven it at the major league level, he's been a consistent .300+ hitter, 15 homers and 35 SB, plus he's 5 years younger. Not to mention Soriano is a free agent after the season.

[RareAir]

I wouldn't do it. It's a little easier(relatively) to beef up your lineup than it is to beef up your rotation......
Backe may not be Cy young material, but there ain't much the astros have to put in his place.

[lalala902102001]

Honestly, Backe hasn't proved anything yet. I would do it in a heartbeat.

[Lil Francis]

Originally posted by NJRocket
Umm...Forrest....this is plan B Well no s*** getting Beltran was option #1. I mean't the second option if the Soriano deal does not go through.

[isoman2kx]

Originally posted by lalala902102001
Honestly, Backe hasn't proved anything yet. I would do it in a heartbeat.

what I'm trying to figure out is how no one is answering the question still.


who in the hell would we have in our starting rotation?

Oswalt?Pettitte? and then 3 home run derby pitchers

don't know about you, but pettite and oswalt can't anchor the staff alone,

at least with backe we might be able to seal up 10-13 wins and break about even on his record

we need to keep at least 3 of our starters that are half decent and then start signing or trading or calling up 2 pitchers

but going in with 3 question marks is asking for alot more than the price we'll pay for no pitching in return for a little bit more offense.

[MustangPride73]

Oswalt
Pettite
Carlos Hernandez
Tim Redding
Pete Munro

wow

Scary

Clemens
Oswalt
Pettite
Backe
Hernandez

sounds good, id trade Lane or Burke and prospects fro Fonz, not Backe though it would leave us too thin in the rotation.

[bottlerocket]

Yes, in a heartbeat.

Soriano is still young can hit for power. He is in his prime.

[RocketFan007]

Insider today said that the Rangers wanted to try to trade Soriano to free room for Delgado. They want Burke and either Backe/Astacio.

[isoman2kx]

Originally posted by RocketFan007
Insider today said that the Rangers wanted to try to trade Soriano to free room for Delgado. They want Burke and either Backe/Astacio.

hell , burke it is then :)

[tierre_brown]

I like how the poll is multiple choice:)

Yes: we need some base-stealing presence, as well as the pop Soriano brings off his bat. Bring in FAs to round out the starting 5, I don't know. Spring training should be interesting

[DVauthrin]

Originally posted by isoman2kx
hell , burke it is then :)


They can have burke, but will have to come down off of backe/astacio as a 2nd player if they want Delgado badly enough from those who watch the Astros minor league games on a regular basis. Astacio is a stud from all reports and backe plus burke is too much. I think a deal of redding/burke for soriano is the scenario for the parties involved myself.

[RocketFan007]

originally posted by isoman2kx
hell , burke it is then

The key word is and, they want Burke and pitching.

[isoman2kx]

Originally posted by RocketFan007
The key word is and, they want Burke and pitching.

burke + backe?

or burke + pitching prospects?

[RocketFan007]

originally posted by isoman2kx
burke + backe?

or burke + pitching prospects?

Either one, they've asked for our top prospect Esquiel Astacio.

[Ottomaton]

Soriano strikes me as the typical "fantasy league" all-star who's significantly more mundane when you factor in non-fantasy areas of play. Since fantasy league all-stars get rewarded disproportionately at the salary table, he strikes me as a guy who's always going to be a poor investment when you compare the cost vs. the return.

[redgoose]

Isn't Soriano a free agent soon. If it's next year, i'd rather just grab him then and give up nothing. That way, possibly Burke shows promise and we can trade him for something nice and keep Backe.

If not, i'd rather pay Soriano for around the 7.5 million he's due and use the other money to shell up the bullpen and add another bat like Burnitz from Colorado. Those two would definantly add the speed we've been needing. Sure, neither one is as good as Beltran, but with the money we would have paid him, we can patch up the rest of the team.

[redgoose]

ooops

[halfbreed]

I voted no because it'd leave our rotation depleted, but think about it:

Imagine if last year at this time someone had asked us to trade some kid named Brandon Backe for Alfonso Soriano. Shows what a difference a year can make.

[arkoe]

Backe may completely flop this year, but with the state of our rotation right now it's hard to trade him. Past Oswalt and Pettite, who do you really have?

[leroy420]

No matter what, you need good pitching to be successful. Backe is unproven. However, I think he is going to be a very solid #3 (and even better #4 if Clemens is back). I think Ottomaton was right in saying Soriano is a good fantasy type player. What he does poorly will outweigh what he does well, IMO. If not Backe, then I also don't think that the Astros are in a position to trade away pitching prospects. If Clemens is back, it will definitely be for 1 year. I predict that Tim "I'm Not Chris Holt" Redding and Brandon Duckworth will not be Astros by June. Someone will have to step up as early as this season.

I also think that Chris Burke has the potential to become a Michael Young type player. Very good defensively and will learn to hit for production. He's not going to hit 30 hr's, but 20 is possible once he gets entrenched in the majors. He's going to get on base and get a good 20 steals. Considering he'll probably be hitting 7th this season, the speed will help with Ausmus hitting behind him.

Also, the Rangers announced that Soriano was not on the trading block.

Soriano will not be traded (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=rotowire-lfonsoorianoexasnsis&prov=rotowire&type=lgns)

[No Worries]

How much does Soriano make? How much will he make in FA?

I think the Astros might want to get a contract extension as part of the trade. Otherwise, Backe may be too much to give up for a one year rental. BTW, who would take his place inthe rotation?

[NJRocket]

Originally posted by No Worries
How much does Soriano make? How much will he make in FA?

I think the Astros might want to get a contract extension as part of the trade. Otherwise, Backe may be too much to give up for a one year rental. BTW, who would take his place inthe rotation?

I think he makes approx 10/yr...so unless he takes a pay cut going fwd, he is pricy...but he produces at the plate and on the bases

[SamCassell]

That's just it, there's nobody to take his rotation spot. The free agent market is played out. Duckworth is bad, Redding seems hopeless, Hernandez still hasn't demonstrated the velocity needed to pitch effectively, Pete Munro is, well, Pete Munro. As it is, one of those four is likely to start the season in the rotation. Backe might not do anything, but I loved his guts in the playoffs and I'd love to see him put that experience to work over a full season. Unlike those other guys, he's at least got a shot at producing wins.

[rrj_gamz]

No way in hell...Soriano is making way too much money and backe has more potential, especially since we need young pitching...

[NJRocket]

Originally posted by NJRocket
I think he makes approx 10/yr...so unless he takes a pay cut going fwd, he is pricy...but he produces at the plate and on the bases

I just checked what Soriano's salary was last year....it was 5.4 million...so unless he is due a huge increase this year, then i was wrong. 5.4 is very affordable and you could probably get away with extending him at like 7-8 per year

In fact, I think Cameron has a bunch of deffered money coming to him so he may even make more than fonzie this year

[MadMax]

Originally posted by NJRocket
I just checked what Soriano's salary was last year....it was 5.4 million...so unless he is due a huge increase this year, then i was wrong. 5.4 is very affordable and you could probably get away with extending him at like 7-8 per year

i'm really torn on this one.

on one hand...i hate giving up young pitching...young talent.

on the other hand...you have proven all-star level talent here with soriano. the guy is a run producer, bottom line.

[VesceySux]

The ghosts of Scott Elarton and Chris Holt have one message for you:

Sell high.

[SamCassell]

Originally posted by NJRocket
I just checked what Soriano's salary was last year....it was 5.4 million...so unless he is due a huge increase this year, then i was wrong. 5.4 is very affordable
Soriano's up for arbitration, and he's looking at probably ~7.5m for this year from an arbitor.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by VesceySux
The ghosts of Scott Elarton and Chris Holt have one message for you:

Sell high.

honestly, that's kinda how i feel. scott elarton speaks quite loudly, frankly. proven talent for speculation.

and you'd be getting soriano for less or equal to what the dodgers are paying kent. i'd say that's a fairly good price for him.

[NJRocket]

Originally posted by SamCassell
Soriano's up for arbitration, and he's looking at probably ~7.5m for this year from an arbitor.

up for it this year? i thought he becomes a free agent after next season

[SamCassell]

Originally posted by NJRocket
up for it this year? i thought he becomes a free agent after next season
It's the "young player not yet a FA" arbitration like Miller was eligible for, not the "unrestricted free agent" arbitration like a Jeff Kent.

[NJRocket]

Originally posted by SamCassell
It's the "young player not yet a FA" arbitration like Miller was eligible for, not the "unrestricted free agent" arbitration like a Jeff Kent.

but if we could trade for him, and sign him to an extension to say 7.5 per over 3 or 4 yrs, i think it would be a steal and we plug him right into the 2 hole in the order/....probem is that someone posted an article from today on how the rangers arent trading him

[No Worries]

Something else to consider is that Wade Miller's rotation spot also vacant. And Clemens' spot may be gone as well. The Astros may be better off trading hitting for pitching.

[NJRocket]

Originally posted by No Worries
Something else to consider is that Wade Miller's rotation spot also vacant. And Clemens' spot may be gone as well. The Astros may be better off trading hitting for pitching.


no question about it...my thinking was that if we could land someone like Soriano, Clemens may come back...then we could go with roger, andy and roy...and hope that one of the youngsters step up.....the 5th spot would be ...well like most other 5th spots

[RocketFan007]

originally posted by MadMax
honestly, that's kinda how i feel. scott elarton speaks quite loudly, frankly. proven talent for speculation.

Let's not forget that Elarton was brillant before he tore up his shoulder. He didn't just start sucking for no reason.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by RocketFan007
Let's not forget that Elarton was brillinat before he tore up his shoulder. He didn't just start sucking for no reason.

roger clemens > scott elarton

lesson learned.

[SamCassell]

What lesson is that? Don't develop your own pitchers? Don't let them get hurt? Longhorns >anyone else?

[MadMax]

Originally posted by SamCassell
What lesson is that? Don't develop your own pitchers? Don't let them get hurt? Longhorns >anyone else?

:D

i think you take proven talent...when you can get it...over young, unproven talent. when you have a chance to get arguably the top pitcher EVER...you don't let a rookie stand in the way of that.

and of course...don't let them get hurt is a great lesson!! ;) ask carlos hernandez.

[SamCassell]

Well sure, Clemens is awesome. :) But you can't just out-and-out say that proven talent is always better than prospects. We have plenty of prospects that turn out well - Oswalt, Berkman - and proven vets who don't yield results - Drabeck, Swindell.

I am not in favor of a Soriano trade because I think that salary is best spent to reinforce areas where prospects are lacking. We can't afford to have multi-millionaires at each position. Right now, we have a good prospect at 2B, so we can use that money best to fill the gaping hole in CF left by the Beltran departure, and to reinforce the bullpen. Burke will make minimal salary for the next 4 or 5 years, while Soriano is going to cost someone $35m over that same period of time. Backe is going to be similarly cheap. I'd rather see the money put into upgrading the CF position, and I don't see the advantage gained in going from Burke to Soriano (hitting increase, defense downgrade), added to the loss of Backe from the rotation (replaced by, let's say Duckworth) to be worth that much money when we have other areas of need.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by SamCassell
Well sure, Clemens is awesome. :) But you can't just out-and-out say that proven talent is always better than prospects. We have plenty of prospects that turn out well - Oswalt, Berkman - and proven vets who don't yield results - Drabeck, Swindell.

I am not in favor of a Soriano trade because I think that salary is best spent to reinforce areas where prospects are lacking. We can't afford to have multi-millionaires at each position. Right now, we have a good prospect at 2B, so we can use that money best to fill the gaping hole in CF left by the Beltran departure, and to reinforce the bullpen. Burke will make minimal salary for the next 4 or 5 years, while Soriano is going to cost someone $35m over that same period of time. Backe is going to be similarly cheap. I'd rather see the money put into upgrading the CF position, and I don't see the advantage gained in going from Burke to Soriano (hitting increase, defense downgrade), added to the loss of Backe from the rotation (replaced by, let's say Duckworth) to be worth that much money when we have other areas of need.

that's good analysis. you're right..you can't make a blanket statement like i did. it doesn't always work that way.

as for soriano. i don't know how to think about that one. i hear ya as for position...but i'm not thinking about who can man what position...i'm thinking about who is going to knock in runs. kent's production at the plate is gone. burke isn't going to come anywhere near that. so whether it's a catcher or a 2B or a 3B or whatever...those are numbers that have to be made up for.

[SamCassell]

Originally posted by MadMax
as for soriano. i don't know how to think about that one. i hear ya as for position...but i'm not thinking about who can man what position...i'm thinking about who is going to knock in runs.
And I agree with you there, we need someone to drive in runs! But I also look down the road in the very near future, 2006 probably, without Biggio we'll need someone to set the table at the leadoff position. I don't know whether Burke will do that job, but someone has to. Burke has speed and got on base nearly 40% of the time last year at AAA. If you deal him off, you're definitely going to need to go after a good leadoff hitter next year in free agency, unless you want to gamble that Tavares is ready by then (even then, we'll need a #2).

[pugsly8422]

2 Things...........

1) Someone already posted that Soriano is off the block (even though this isn't always true).

2) There is a positive and negative to everything.....

If we did trade for Soriano we'd have added power, but a depleted staff. If we didn't we'd have a, most likely, better staff, but less power. Unless we make other trades or there are people we don't know about in the minors I think you have to look at it like this:

What is the bigger drop? Losing probably 10-15 hrs, 30-40 rbis, and a lower batting average. Or losing probably 5-8 wins, and probably 50-70 innings from your starter? Remember the less yoru starters pitch the more your relievers pitch, which hasn't been a good thing for the Astros.

My vote would be to forget Soriano, give Burke a chance and hope Backe pans out because we just don't have anyone to replace him, even though he's not that hard to replace. <--- That just shows how bad our pitching is. I'd love to have Soriano if we could work out something else, but if not I'll pass.

Pugs

[ROCKSS]

NO I would not. Backe proved he could pitch last year, not only that he showed he could pitch when the stakes were high. I would like to see the Astros develop him and see if he has the capability to handle it over the course of a full year. Good Pitching beats good hitting so I would try and keep him and see if we have a diamond in the rough. I would be very excited if we had a solid rotaion with Oswalt, AP and Backe and then make a run for Ben Sheets next year.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by ROCKSS
I would be very excited if we had a solid rotaion with Oswalt, AP and Backe and then make a run for Ben Sheets next year.

add in clemens and change Ben Sheets next year to Ben Sheets in July, and I'm in!!! :)

[gunn]

Originally posted by MadMax
add in clemens and change Ben Sheets next year to Ben Sheets in July, and I'm in!!! :)

I'll add the "keen observation of the obvious" here and say, Ben Sheets is filthy.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by gunn
I'll add the "keen observation of the obvious" here and say, Ben Sheets is filthy.

indeed. just taking away his few starts against us a year would be helpful!

[NJRocket]

Originally posted by MadMax
indeed. just taking away his few starts against us a year would be helpful!

especially since we dont have our automatic W in Miller Park without Wade...man he was good when he pitched there!

[gunn]

Originally posted by MadMax
indeed. just taking away his few starts against us a year would be helpful!

Just thinking about Sheets and Oswalt 1 and 2 in a rotation cracks a smile on my face.

[NJRocket]

We could put Roy in between (the) Sheets and Pet it


ba dum dum


try the veal...ill be here til thursday

[WizzyWig]

Trading for Soriano reminds me of the Beltran trade...Next winter we might be dealing with another Boras.

[DrewP]

Originally posted by VesceySux
The ghosts of Scott Elarton and Chris Holt have one message for you:

Sell high.

Scott Elarton was brilliant before the injury and Chris Holt always sucked.

PS I haven't bought any cards in awhile and I want to go out and buy a box. Whats a good baseball series this year that is about 60 bucks a box and I stand to pull out some authentic ****? thanks.

[Deuce Rings]

Monday, January 17, 2005
Associated Press
ARLINGTON, Texas -- All-Star second baseman Alfonso Soriano and the Texas Rangers agreed Monday to a one-year, $7.5 million contract -- a raise of $2.1 million -- to avoid salary arbitration.

Soriano came to the Rangers in last February's trade that sent Alex Rodriguez to the New York Yankees. He hit .280 with 28 homers and 91 RBI last year before missing the last 16 games of the season with a strained left hamstring.

The Rangers avoided arbitration with the deal, but assistant general manager Jon Daniels said the team could speak with Soriano later about a longer-term deal. Soriano is eligible for free agency after the 2006 season.

Texas has two players remaining in arbitration: outfielder Gary Matthews Jr. and right-hander Carlos Almanzar. Players and teams are set to swap proposed salaries Tuesday, with hearings to be scheduled for next month.

Matthews started 77 games, had a team-high eight outfield assists and hit .275 with 11 homers, the second-highest total in his career. Almanzar was 7-3 with a 3.72 ERA in 67 games.

[leroy420]

Originally posted by Deuce Rings
Monday, January 17, 2005
Associated Press
ARLINGTON, Texas -- All-Star second baseman Alfonso Soriano and the Texas Rangers agreed Monday to a one-year, $7.5 million contract -- a raise of $2.1 million -- to avoid salary arbitration.

Soriano came to the Rangers in last February's trade that sent Alex Rodriguez to the New York Yankees. He hit .280 with 28 homers and 91 RBI last year before missing the last 16 games of the season with a strained left hamstring.

The Rangers avoided arbitration with the deal, but assistant general manager Jon Daniels said the team could speak with Soriano later about a longer-term deal. Soriano is eligible for free agency after the 2006 season.

Texas has two players remaining in arbitration: outfielder Gary Matthews Jr. and right-hander Carlos Almanzar. Players and teams are set to swap proposed salaries Tuesday, with hearings to be scheduled for next month.

Matthews started 77 games, had a team-high eight outfield assists and hit .275 with 11 homers, the second-highest total in his career. Almanzar was 7-3 with a 3.72 ERA in 67 games.

That's the end of that idea. I really didn't like the idea of trading young pitching (unless it was Redding or Duckworth) for Soriano.