Chris Palmer needs to go

[leroy420]

The Texans are an up and coming team with possible the worst playbook in the NFL. Sometimes I wonder if Palmer and Greg Davis (UT Off. Coor.) are the same person.

The Texans will not go any further with Palmer as the OC. Carr really hasn't improved that greatly this season. The O-line hasn't helped and that falls under Palmer's responsibilities. W/O Domanick Davis, this team would have been 5-11. AJ was basically forced out of the game plan over the last 4-5 games.

[codell]

The O-Line is hardly Palmer's faults. I cut him some slack in that area, and it happens to be the area where the offense starts.

I can understand the limits on playcalls, given that if we loosened things up, Carr might be leaving the field in a body bag one day.

[Nick]

Palmer has actually done a remarkable job coaching this offense with the pathetic offensive line that they have.

Why do you think we have the zone blocking that's let DD become a top 5 back? Or the dumpoff play that Carr and Davis can now do in their sleep. Or the quick outs to AJ, gaffney, and Bradford. And after all the above plays are executed to perfection, only then can this offense start mixing up some play-action, and going deep... and they had some success throughout this year in doing just that.

If you get a solid offensive line, you can do almost anything on the football field. If you get even an average offensive line, you can't do as much as you want... but you can still use most of your weapons consistently. If you have an awful offensive line, you're forced to take what the defense gives you every time... and that's why the playcalling is what it is.

[leroy420]

When it's 3rd & 10 (which it seems to be every series) who calls the play that has all receivers run patterns short of the yard marker? How often does that stupid fake end around actually work? How often do we throw the ball to AJ down the field (only once today and it was a close one)?

Nick, you are right about execution. After 2 years with AJ and DD and 3 years with Bradford and Gaffney, you would think they could run these plays in their sleep. Execution starts with the coaching.

Also, the line does make a huge difference. That is why it is mind boggling to me that Milford Brown and Chester Pitts are even in the NFL. Pitts seems to be the one that always gets the penalty on what would be a big play. Brown was simply horrible today.

[bobmarley]

I tink it is too early to get rid of Palmer. When the Oline blocks we are very good offensively.

I personally would rather see Vic Vangio go.

[DaDakota]

Get rid of that overated Carr we might have someone that can throw the dang ball to A. Johnson more than 10 yards down the field.

Andre Johnson could be blowing up, but all he catches are those stupid WR quick screens.

DD

[meh]

My biggest problem with Palmer is mainly with his lack of ability to adjust to defenses. It seems like the Texans offense gets out of whack really easily once the opponents mix things up. Perhaps this is partially Carr's problem.

The biggest responsibility an offensive coordinator, in my opinion, is to recognize the mismatches and exploit them. Find the weakness in the defense. Palmer seems to do a horrible job of that.

[CoolMann]

I would like to know why the Texans run the drop back to pass and Carr turns around, runs to his right towards the sideline, and tries a weak ass throw to the line of scrimmage 10 times a game. I know it is not an actual play but you would think it was as many times in a game he does this, it annoys me to think that the Texans could beat a solid team like Jacksonville who were fighting for there playoff lives, then to lose to a 3-12 Browns team who had lost nine in a row. Just pitiful to me, today’s game made me sick to my stomach I am losing all faith in Carr as a leader and Quarterback of this club. As the last seconds rolled off the clock before halftime, he decides to run out of bounds instead of throwing it up to Johnson in the end zone makes no sense to me, who cares if the intercept a least give your playmaker a chance to catch a ball. Today’s game pissed me off!!!!!!!!:mad:

[MadMax]

Originally posted by meh
My biggest problem with Palmer is mainly with his lack of ability to adjust to defenses. It seems like the Texans offense gets out of whack really easily once the opponents mix things up. Perhaps this is partially Carr's problem.

The biggest responsibility an offensive coordinator, in my opinion, is to recognize the mismatches and exploit them. Find the weakness in the defense. Palmer seems to do a horrible job of that.

I've defended the guy for most of the past 3 seasons. I won't anymore. I agree entirely. They won't fire Palmer...but I wish they would.

CoolMann -- ummm...there was no pocket for Carr to stand in yesterday. at all. he was running for his life because he gets zero protection. that's on his OL and it's on the coordinator. how about keep Davis in the backfield to block for him on pass plays?? i've NEVER seen them do that. how about putting in a two TE set when your QB is getting nailed...just going with 2 receivers?? no...instead we're gonna have gaffney throw a cross-field pass. great thinking coach.

[swilkins]

Originally posted by DaDakota
Get rid of that overated Carr we might have someone that can throw the dang ball to A. Johnson more than 10 yards down the field.

Andre Johnson could be blowing up, but all he catches are those stupid WR quick screens.

DD

I'll hold off on bashing Palmer and Carr just yet. I kinda feel that he'll improve when the line does.

With all the battering he's receiving, I think he is suffering from shell shock.

I think both of our guards are the problem and McKinney isn't worth squat.

Madmax,

We do use 2 TE sets and our RB does block on occasion. Our interior line completely collapses and 1 RB cannot keep Carr from getting pumelled by 300 pound defensive linemen.

[ima_drummer2k]

Originally posted by DaDakota
Get rid of that overated Carr
:rolleyes:

What do you expect when he has less than 1 second before he's flushed out of the pocket because of that GOD AWFUL line?

It seems like our pass plays take too long to develop. Why can't we throw some quick hitting slants? All of our pass routes take 5 seconds to develop which is like suicide with our line.

Instead of throwing those WR screens for 3 yards, we should throw some slants to AJ. It's a guaranteed 10 yards everytime, if not more.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by ima_drummer2k
:rolleyes:

What do you expect when he has less than 1 second before he's flushed out of the pocket because of that GOD AWFUL line?

It seems like our pass plays take too long to develop. Why can't we throw some quick hitting slants? All of our pass routes take 5 seconds to develop which is like suicide with our line.

Instead of throwing those WR screens for 3 yards, we should throw some slants to AJ. It's a guaranteed 10 yards everytime, if not more.

EXACTLY!!! you have to develop plays given your strengths and weaknesses...when your QB is getting pounded and the OL can't protect him, run some freaking hot patterns. quick 3 step releases. instead, you're forcing the guy back into a no-win situation where he's forced to throw on the run, scrambling for his life.

[rrj_gamz]

I can't see him going unless they can get someone really really good...After next season, all bets are off...

[leroy420]

Originally posted by rrj_gamz
I can't see him going unless they can get someone really really good...After next season, all bets are off...

That is most likely what will happen. No one will get fired this offseason. The only changes will be if someone leaves for another job. Next season will be the end of the line, though. No improvement and we will be talking about head coahing possibilities this time next year.

[Saint Louis]

A QB or RB is only as good as their OL. Pass blocking is also harder then rush blocking.

[bobmarley]

Palmer has his problems, mainly the OL. He could be a good playcaller given good blocking.

My real problem is Vic Vangio. He brings this team nothing. The 3-4 is nice and all but ours is terribly predictable. Babin rushes almost every play. Except when they have a slot WR on his side. The Babin drops into zone coverage on the underneath while the SS is forced to cover the slot WR. This leaves Aaron Glenn on 1 on 1 coverage most of the game. We could be alright with that except Glenn is out of his prime.

We need another prime CB and move Glenn to the nickel or trade his salary and keep Faggins at the nickel, where he has been very good this season. We definetly need a SS. Unless Earl can somehow get much better after the offseason. Plus Marcus Coleman will only be good for a few more seasons. Dunta is going to be the corner peice of our D for a long time.

Our LB situation could be worse. Wong has really stepped up this year but is better suited as an ILB and used in coverage more. I don't want Foreman back. We need another OLB maybe someone like Derrick Johnson. I know thats a dream.:)

I love Seth Payne but he is a FA after this year. Jerry Deloach is plenty capable. But my ideal DL situation is to draft or sign a big DT and move him to DE in our 3-4 scheme then move Robaire Smith in to the NT. We also need better depth at DE behind Gary.

I know in the these new days of a strict cap and FA, that filling all of these needs will be close to imposible. But in our 3 year history we have done a really good job drafting. And I hope we get some good picks this offseason and bring in some nice FA.

[haven]

My problem is that the team doesn't always play to its strengths. David Carr and Andre Johnson are the two best players on offense. Both, I think, are underutilized.

Nick's point about the O-line is well-taken. However, you can use a short passing game, as MadMax also indicated, to make up for this (and also to replace a sometimes miserable running game).

Palmer seems to want very badly to run a conservative offense. Personally, I hate that. But I think the worst thing is: the team isn't built for it. And he won't adjust.

[spence99]

I think Capers is the one to blame for the conservative offense. All his teams have run conservative offense's like this one. I think he directs Palmer to play it conservative.

[pariah]

Could he not very well implement the run-n-shoot?














:D

[leroy420]

Originally posted by pariah
Could he not very well implement the run-n-shoot

:D

Bring back Jack Pardee!!!!!!!!!

[ima_drummer2k]

Originally posted by spence99
I think Capers is the one to blame for the conservative offense. All his teams have run conservative offense's like this one. I think he directs Palmer to play it conservative.
I agree with this.

Capers was an excellent choice to build an expansion team. That's what he's good at. At some point, he's going to (or should IMO) get canned and someone else will be brought in to take us to the next level.

My question is...when is that point?

[leroy420]

Originally posted by ima_drummer2k
I agree with this.

Capers was an excellent choice to build an expansion team. That's what he's good at. At some point, he's going to (or should IMO) get canned and someone else will be brought in to take us to the next level.

My question is...when is that point?

Everything will depend on next season. That is the year that was planned to be ready for the playoffs. If there is no significant signs of improvement AND at least fighting for a playoff spot then I believe Capers might not be around much longer.

[swilkins]

I've had time to think about this some more. Palmer does suck.

Our offense provides no protection which is the O-Line coach who is the responsibility of... Palmer

Our offense never appears to adjust well to defenses during the course of the game which is the responsibility of... Palmer.

Our offensive play calling is predictable. Why?... Palmer

Andre Johnson had 2 passes completed... Palmer

F Palmer. I'm sick of hearing the guys name. He needs to go.

[Joe Joe]

Originally posted by leroy420
Sometimes I wonder if Palmer and Greg Davis (UT Off. Coor.) are the same person.

Sometimes I wonder if UT fans and Texan fans are the same people.

[Fegwu]

I will employ the patience route one more time here. We have allowed this team to evolve this far so lets give them one more year.

Let the 2005 seaon be the season of no excuses.

They say that they are building and trully it takes time to build a reputable organization in the NFL. Patience and one more chance for everyone including Vic and Palmer.

[dskillz]

I think the Texans offensively have a couple things working against them.

1. The O-line needs a serious kick in the butt. Their poor play can singlehandly lose games for us and has.

2. Capers is a conservative coach and Palmer takes his cues from him. I can imagine scenes happen on the sidelines like from Any Given Sunday when the head coach overrules the Coordinator.

I think that if the O-line gets better next year, the offense will start to click on all cylinders. I think Carr gets so rattled after the O-line fails him yet again, that he looks for option 1, and if he is not open, he runs like hell or he just gets sacked.