ClutchFans - [Offseason] Carlos Beltran Thread 12-16-04

Nick

12-16-2004, 07:17 PM

Originally posted by Lil Francis
If Beltran resigns will the payroll be over 90 million? Because on 610 they said McClane didn't want to go over the 85million mark.

They've always been flexible with the final payroll number, especially since they wanted to leave wiggle room for other moves they HAVE to make, even if Beltran signs (bullpen help, and another vet. starter if Clemens retires).

Originally posted by Rocketman95
I agree that if they reject this offer, it's time to look elsewhere. Clement/Drew, baby!
Clement's psyche is fragile... not Redding-fragile, but nowhere near the mentality of the other top pitchers.

And don't get me started on Nancy Drew... he is a great talent, when he wants to be, but something tells me that once he starts making the big bucks, he's going to dissapoint some people who expect gigantic numbers for that salary. And I haven't even begun to mention his injury-history... last year was the first year EVER that he was healthy for most of the season (and in a contract-year, no less... what a shocker).

I'm not saying that either of these guys would be bad for us... I just don't like being reactionary, and saying that we have to spend all this money on somebody else out there, if we don't get Beltran.

Right now, Mclane is willing to go this high because he knows how well Beltran fits this team. Any other free agents out there would have to be evaluated differently.

codell

12-16-2004, 08:59 PM

Looks like the "Tal's Hill will have to go if Beltran resigns" rumors are false:

Tal's Hill in no danger of removal

Astros GM Purpura dispels rumors about incline

By Jim Molony / MLB.com

HOUSTON -- Astros general manager Tim Purpura may be trying to move heaven and earth to re-sign free agent Carlos Beltran, but he hasn't ordered earth movers for Tal's Hill.

After several media outlets reported from the Winter Meetings that Tal's Hill, the incline leading to the center-field fence at Houston's Minute Park, had been discussed during the negotiations between Purpura and Beltran's agent Scott Boras, the GM went on radio to set the record straight.

The Fort Worth Star-Telegram and USA Today Sports Weekly were among the publications that reported that the hill would have to go if Beltran were to stay with Houston. MLB.com reported that the hill had been brought up during negotiations.

"I heard it during the Winter Meetings, and it is an absolute fabrication," Purpura told Houston radio station KTRH Thursday afternoon. "Whoever made that up was having a slow day at the Winter Meetings, I believe. I laughed about it, and I also brought it up to Scott Boras a couple of days ago and he laughed about it too, so there's nothing to it."

The hill is named after Astros President Tal Smith, who worked in the Cincinnati organization when the Reds played in old Crosley Field, which had a hill leading up to the left-field fence.

Jim Molony is a writer for MLB.com based in Houston. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

lalala902102001

12-16-2004, 10:00 PM

Now the Yanks have settled their pitching rotation, they'll turn their attention to Beltran.

The Stros need to lock Beltran up and do it quick.

Hmm

12-16-2004, 10:24 PM

Originally posted by lalala902102001
Now the Yanks have settled their pitching rotation, they'll turn their attention to Beltran.

The Stros need to lock Beltran up and do it quick.

You tell em!!

meh

12-16-2004, 11:38 PM

Originally posted by Lil Francis
If Beltran resigns will the payroll be over 90 million? Because on 610 they said McClane didn't want to go over the 85million mark.

Big deals like this are ALWAYS extremely backloaded to make the overall figure look really nice. So even if the contract is 7/100, the salary figure for the upcoming season could only be around $10-12 mil.

Roc Paint

12-17-2004, 03:51 AM

Beltran is going to be in an Astro uni next year.

MadMax

12-17-2004, 07:23 AM

Look, if Beltre's contract is any indication, the Astros offer to Beltran appears more than fair. Beltre only got 5 years...and less per year than what the 'stros are offering Beltran, and their numbers are pretty comparable. Beltre was freaking legit last season.

Soooo...let's get this crappy thing done, already!!! If we're forced to wait on the Cubs to see if they can get rid of Sammy...and the Yankees to see if they can actually pull this Johnson deal off...then we're going to be forced to look elsewhere. And I think we're the ones bidding up Beltran, to this point...which means that Boras' little manuevers and delays may actually backfire on him when Carlos signs.

NJRocket

12-17-2004, 08:34 AM

I know its just Kurkjan and the rest of the media clowns putting their spin on things...but everytime I see a report on Beltran these days, we are mentioned less and less....while the Yanks and Cubs are mentioned more and more. Hopefully, we have made a "final" offer and given him a pretty much take it or leave it offer because we are going to get hosed here if we lose him....especially if he goes to the Cubs and we end up settling for whatever is left over

MadMax

12-17-2004, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by NJRocket
I know its just Kurkjan and the rest of the media clowns putting their spin on things...but everytime I see a report on Beltran these days, we are mentioned less and less....while the Yanks and Cubs are mentioned more and more. Hopefully, we have made a "final" offer and given him a pretty much take it or leave it offer because we are going to get hosed here if we lose him....especially if he goes to the Cubs and we end up settling for whatever is left over

really? i heard Gammons say again this morning on ESPN2/ Mike & Mike that he thought Beltran would end up with the Astros because the deals would ultimately all be pretty even.

Nick

12-17-2004, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by MadMax
really? i heard Gammons say again this morning on ESPN2/ Mike & Mike that he thought Beltran would end up with the Astros because the deals would ultimately all be pretty even.

Yea, I heard that as well... also, this morning's chronicle said that negotiations would continue again next week.

Boras is busy signing his other clients... while Kurkjian is reading the same script he used BEFORE the winter meetings (and, btw, he still said the Astros were one of the top contenders... he just said the Yankees were probably #1 because of the most $$$)

NJRocket

12-17-2004, 08:49 AM

Originally posted by MadMax
really? i heard Gammons say again this morning on ESPN2/ Mike & Mike that he thought Beltran would end up with the Astros because the deals would ultimately all be pretty even.

thats good to hear I guess....but Kurkjan was on ESPN last night and this morning saying that it'll be NY...or the Cubs...hopefully Gammons is right

fya

12-17-2004, 08:52 AM

Gammons is never right. The cubs have to unload soso and that won't be easy.

MadMax

12-17-2004, 08:55 AM

Originally posted by NJRocket
thats good to hear I guess....but Kurkjan was on ESPN last night and this morning saying that it'll be NY...or the Cubs...hopefully Gammons is right

don't know how you could say cubs. so much contingent on them moving sammy, first.

MadMax

12-17-2004, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by fya
Gammons is never right.

just a bit of an over-generalization for the most respected journalist in all of baseballdom.

NJRocket

12-17-2004, 08:58 AM

Originally posted by fya
Gammons is never right. The cubs have to unload soso and that won't be easy.

Gammons is actually the only one I think has a true hold on what is going on most of the time

Fegwu

12-17-2004, 09:04 AM

Originally posted by NJRocket
I know its just Kurkjan and the rest of the media clowns putting their spin on things...but everytime I see a report on Beltran these days, we are mentioned less and less....while the Yanks and Cubs are mentioned more and more. Hopefully, we have made a "final" offer and given him a pretty much take it or leave it offer because we are going to get hosed here if we lose him....especially if he goes to the Cubs and we end up settling for whatever is left over

Kurkjan just sucks. If you do not have inside info go somewhere and hide instead of using old speculation lines cooked up two months ago. Him mentioning that Yankees and Cubs are favorites over the Astros just did it for me. That man is crazy.

shawn786

12-17-2004, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by Roc Paint
Beltran is going to be in an Astro uni next year.

I sure as hell hope your right!

rrj_gamz

12-17-2004, 01:31 PM

I liked the article today stating that Beltre set the market...I think he did, but I can't believe the M's spent that kind of money on he and Sexson...Sexson isn't worth it...

juicystream

12-17-2004, 01:33 PM

Kurkjan said he thinks the Yankees will sign him because they have the money, unless the Cubs manage to rid theirselves of Sammy. In a last note he said the Astros are still in it. But most reports are still saying Yankees or Astros and many experts seem split between the two. I would rate the teams chances like this:

1. Astros
2. Yankees
3. Cubs

Fegwu

12-17-2004, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by rrj_gamz
I liked the article today stating that Beltre set the market...I think he did, but I can't believe the M's spent that kind of money on he and Sexson...Sexson isn't worth it...

I liked that report too. Better still Boras is the same agent for both Beltre and Beltran. So he know what is up.

6 or 7 years @ anywhere between $13M to $14.5 for Beltran should sit well with Boras and Beltran as well as the 'Stros. I believe we can meet this. If Beltran is not an Astro come spring training it will NOT be because of money.

Edited: thanks madmax

MadMax

12-17-2004, 02:20 PM

you mean it won't be because of money, right??

ROCKSS

12-17-2004, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by fya
Gammons is never right. The cubs have to unload soso and that won't be easy.

ESPN is reporting that the Cubs feels that they can now move Sosa, possibly to the Orioles. I will go get the article and paste it over here

ROCKSS

12-17-2004, 03:24 PM

Friday, December 17, 2004

By Phil Rogers
Special to ESPN.com
If a Sammy Sosa trade is imminent, it remains a closely guarded secret. But Jim Hendry, the Cubs' brazen general manager, tells reporters he feels better about the chance to unload his $25-million commitment to Sosa than he did a couple weeks ago.

"The climate seems to have changed quite a bit since I left the GM meetings," Hendry said, referring to a November gathering. "There are five or six clubs with a level of interest.''

What has changed?

Sammy Sosa, 36, is coming off a season in which he batted just .253.

The biggest change is that there's now less supply to fill the demand for run-producing hitters. Adrian Beltre, Troy Glaus, Richie Sexson, Edgar Renteria, Steve Finley, Jeff Kent, Corey Koskie, Jermaine Dye, Nomar Garciaparra and Richard Hidalgo are off the market. That means that teams still looking to make an offensive impact, primarily the Mets, Baltimore and Los Angeles, are left with a choice:

Scott Boras or Sosa.

Sosa, who would cost a team somewhere south of $40 million over two years -- depending on whether agent Adam Katz and Sosa alter the 2006 contract option, which is guaranteed if he's traded, and if the Cubs take back contracts or include cash in a trade -- might be the lesser of the two evils. The thought of getting Sosa cheaply has prompted even cash-poor teams like Kansas City and Washington to make inquires.

It's safe to say those teams aren't tying up Boras' telephone.

With the exception of Carlos Delgado and Moises Alou, Boras controls the best free-agent hitters still available. He is seeking deals ranging from five to 10 years for Carlos Beltran and J.D. Drew, and on Thursday got a five-year, $64 million deal for Beltre. Boras also wants teams to ignore Magglio Ordonez's decision to have his injured left knee repaired in Europe, with a procedure not yet approved in the United States.

Ordonez is the only one of these Boras clients who didn't have a bust-out season in 2004. But among the available hitters, only Beltran and Delgado (who is seeking a four-year deal at $16 million a year) have been more productive the last three years.

Compare their relative totals 2002-04:

Name Average Home runs RBI
Delgado .284 107 352
Beltran .281 93 309
Sosa .274 124 291
Ordonez .315 76 271
Alou .283 76 258
Drew .283 64 191

Other than Dusty Baker, perhaps no one would more like to see Sosa moved than Boras. He seems to be buying time in the Beltran sweepstakes as he waits for the Cubs to jump to the front with an offer that knocks Houston out of the water. Tim Purpura, the Astros' general manager, says he is fully prepared to let this saga run until Jan. 8, which is the last day for teams to offer arbitration.

It's possible for the Cubs to squeeze Sosa and Beltran onto the payroll but Hendry would like to have the decks cleared to chase Beltran, with Drew as a secondary target.

Here are a few scenarios that could allow him to do that:

Sosa to the Mets for Cliff Floyd
Pedro Martinez didn't come cheaply to the Mets. But that signing doesn't preclude the addition of more payroll. After all, he's only a $5-million a year upgrade over Al Leiter, who made $8 million last season.

Floyd

If anything, the signing of Martinez should make it easier for GM Omar Minaya to scoop up Sosa. It is Martinez, not Sosa, who would carry the biggest expectations and get the most attention next spring training. That lessens the risk a little for Minaya, who is not counting on Sosa to be his signature move.

No one in baseball believes in Sosa more than Minaya and his top lieutenant, Sandy Johnson, who were the first to see his passion for the game and acknowledge his potential. They could give him the support he badly needs, rebuilding his confidence and allowing him to rehab his image.

This deal surfaced almost immediately after Minaya was hired as GM. It still makes a ton of sense. People who scoff about Sosa as damaged goods don't understand Sosa's pride and his bond with Johnson and Minaya. Those two guys could keep him in line for rookie manager Willie Randolph.

(The Mets would love to make a clean break with their faded icon, Mike Piazza. While he does not fit on the Cubs, Hendry might be able to even help broker that deal.)

Sosa to Baltimore for Jay Gibbons and Jorge Julio
The Orioles get a second star to play alongside Miguel Tejada. The Cubs get some needed balance. Sosa gets a chance to hit in a park that suits him, with a chance to perhaps sign a long-term contract after 2005 that puts him in place for his run at the career home run record.

Sosa and third baseman-outfielder Dave Kelton to Los Angeles for Shawn Green
This doesn't bring a lot of salary relief for the Cubs, as Green, who is part of the proposed three-team trade involving the Dodgers, Yankees and Diamondbacks, will get $16 million in 2005, but it balances the lineup and keeps the Cubs from having to pay a $4.5 million buyout after the season. For the Dodgers, it opens first base for Hee Seop Choi.

GM Paul DePodesta will also have to weigh the long-term risk over the flexibility he'd get from having Sosa only through 2006. The Dodgers might be gun-shy because of the lack of production from Todd Hundley and Fred McGriff, Cubs castoffs who sunk the Dan Evans regime.

Sosa to the Yankees for Kevin Brown
Rather than get caught up in the Beltran bidding, which would mean a salary commitment in 2006 and beyond to almost half a billion dollars, the Yankees could add a respected bat who is signed for only two years. At some point, owner George Steinbrenner is going to run into serious issues with MLB's 60-40 debt equity rules. The Yankees would love to move Brown, a goat in Game 7 of the ALCS against Boston. He could join the Cubs' rotation or the cast of candidates to close. If his back is healthy, he could fit right in on baseball's most powerful staff.

Sweeney

Sosa to Kansas City in a three-way deal that sends Mike Sweeney to the Mets and Floyd to the Cubs
This is a long shot deal (would the Mets want Sweeney at $12.5 million for three more years?), but the Royals are dying for an impact player. The lure to Sosa is a chance to play for Dominican manager Tony Pena and be reunited with Jeff Pentland, who was the Cubs' hitting coach during Sosa's best years.

Phil Rogers is the national baseball writer for the Chicago Tribune, which has a Web site at

RocketManJosh

12-17-2004, 03:31 PM

Here's your link ROCKSS:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=rogers_phil&id=1947583

This definitely is not sounding good for the Astros chance to land Carlos ... This could possibly the worst scenario we ever imagined.

Berkman goes down
Kent Leaves

And if this happens:
Beltran takes forever to decide to go to the Cubs with no FAs left

Then this happens:
Roger Clemens immediately retires

leroy420

12-17-2004, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by ROCKSS
Phil Rogers is the national baseball writer for the Chicago Tribune, which has a Web site at

Figures...No Chicago writer has said anything this offseason with even an ounce of objectivity or truthfulness. This guy is almost as bad as Jay Mariotti.

I truly don't think that anyone is going to offer more than $15 million per. With all things being equal, I think Beltran will chose the Astros. If the Yankees or Cubs want to go higher, then let them. Jan 8th is still early enough for the Astros to put their contigency plans in place. It will most likely be some sort of trade for a CF. It doesn't have to be a long term plan with so many OF's in the farm system on the cusp of being major league ready (i.e. Willy Taveres).

I want Beltran here as much as anyone. I just don't want to be handcuffed to a deal that won't allow long term contracts to Oswalt and Berkman. Nothing more than $15 million per will or should come from the Astros.

Oski2005

12-17-2004, 03:35 PM

Cuck the Fubs.

RocketManJosh

12-17-2004, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by leroy420

I truly don't think that anyone is going to offer more than $15 million per. With all things being equal, I think Beltran will chose the Astros.

If that's the case, then I am not worried about losing him. I thought that initially as well. The problem is that Vescey Sux says that Beltran's first choice is Chicago, and I have no reason to doubt him at this point considering he's been correct numerous times before.

God, I hope you are right though and Beltran would choose the Astros!

DVauthrin

12-17-2004, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by RocketManJosh
Here's your link ROCKSS:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=rogers_phil&id=1947583

This definitely is not sounding good for the Astros chance to land Carlos ... This could possibly the worst scenario we ever imagined.

Berkman goes down
Kent Leaves

And if this happens:
Beltran takes forever to decide to go to the Cubs with no FAs left

Then this happens:
Roger Clemens immediately retires

Did you miss this gem(huge assumption):

Other than Dusty Baker, perhaps no one would more like to see Sosa moved than Boras. He seems to be buying time in the Beltran sweepstakes as he waits for the Cubs to jump to the front with an offer that knocks Houston out of the water.

This is the same writer who regurgitated a Richard Justice article a few weeks back. I don't care what a guy in Cubs country is writing because all the guy is doing is trying to appease his readership, and it shows. The same with Kurkjian(who I usually respect) first saying Beltran to the Angels and when they signed Finley his answer is the Yankees: they have the most money. Brilliant answer Tim. :rolleyes:

As far as Sosa goes, the MLBPA will not let him void that clause in his contract. Thus the Cubs and their parent company, the Tribune(who this guy writes for I might add), are dreaming if they think they can unload him without eating another bad contract or sending a lot of cash to the team acquiring Sosa. This idea that someone will willingly eat Sosa's 2006 option without sticking the Cubs with a nasty bill is ludicrous, but it would end the media's fascination with the Cubs in the Beltran sweepstakes. I don't think it's any coincidence that we are now in mid December and all of a sudden various reports come out saying the Sammy Sosa trade talks are hot and heavy. That is what the media and Boras wants out there especially with the January 8th deadline fast approaching for Houston. Right now, Boras sees that the Yanks really are ambivalent about Beltran and with the Angels out of the mix, he has little leverage to make Houston up its bid. But if people in the media say that the Cubs are close to becoming a factor in this race, he figures he may be able to get the Astros to submit a stronger bid to try and close the deal.

I see no reason to be scared by what one writer from the Cubs parent company writes especially when he makes one really large assumption as the basic premise of his article. Lastly, if the Cubs and MLB media types really expect Chicago to be able to trade Sosa without them have to pay practically all of Sosa's contract through taking bad contracts/cash, then I have a large piece land to sell them.

Of course, all it takes is one idiot to make that happen, so I'll keep my fingers crossed. But overall I still think the Astros are significant frontrunners for Beltran's services and I think right now Boras is trying anything he can just to drive the price up a little more.

JunkyardDwg

12-17-2004, 05:00 PM

I'm really starting to get sick of this s**t ... something needs to happen already so the Astros can move on (whether we get him or not). This is not fair to everyone involved. :mad:

MadMax

12-17-2004, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by JunkyardDwg
This is not fair to everyone involved. :mad:

PARTICULARLY, ME!!!!

Roc Paint

12-18-2004, 03:24 AM

Originally posted by JunkyardDwg
I'm really starting to get sick of this s**t ... something needs to happen already so the Astros can move on (whether we get him or not). This is not fair to everyone involved. :mad:

I doubt you would be saying this if we land him. Beltran will be an Astro in no later than two weeks.

LongTimeFan

12-18-2004, 11:16 AM

Meanwhile, Purpura doesn't expect to have any dialogue with Scott Boras, the agent for free-agent outfielder Carlos Beltran, until next week. The two sides haven't spoken since Tuesday, on the heels of the winter meetings.

Not sure if I'm reading too much into it, but it sure as hell ain't encouraging..

xiki

12-18-2004, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by LongTimeFan
Meanwhile, Purpura doesn't expect to have any dialogue with Scott Boras, the agent for free-agent outfielder Carlos Beltran, until next week. The two sides haven't spoken since Tuesday, on the heels of the winter meetings.

Not sure if I'm reading too much into it, but it sure as hell ain't encouraging..

The espn boys are hinting it may be over -- CB in Shea with Pedro. Say that ain't so, Carlo(s).

DVauthrin

12-18-2004, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by xiki
The espn boys are hinting it may be over -- CB in Shea with Pedro. Say that ain't so, Carlo(s).

They are wrong based on everything known so far. All the guy(on a basketball halftime show I might add)is supposed to mention was the Mets plan to make an offer to Carlos, but somehow he then decided to draw an illogical conclusion that a deal is close to between reached between Beltran and Mets.

This is from rotoworld today:

Carlos Beltran's agent, Scott Boras, is expected to travel for face-to-face meetings with Yankees owner George Steinbrenner and Astros owner Drayton McLane next week.

Yesterday's rotoworld news:

The Mets have been discussing a plan to pursue Carlos Beltran, Newsday reports.

There is no other major media running with that story right now, and I'd just venture to guess the guy was just passing along yesterday's news about the Mets and Beltran and got ahead of himself or misspoke.

The Mets are still longshots at best in this whole deal, and are much more likely to sign Carlos Delgado.

xiki

12-18-2004, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by DVauthrin
They are wrong based on everything known so far. All the guy(on a basketball halftime show I might add)is supposed to mention was the Mets plan to make an offer to Carlos, but somehow he then decided to draw an illogical conclusion that a deal is close to between reached between Beltran and Mets.

This is from rotoworld today:

Carlos Beltran's agent, Scott Boras, is expected to travel for face-to-face meetings with Yankees owner George Steinbrenner and Astros owner Drayton McLane next week.

Yesterday's rotoworld news:

The Mets have been discussing a plan to pursue Carlos Beltran, Newsday reports.

There is no other major media running with that story right now, and I'd just venture to guess the guy was just passing along yesterday's news about the Mets and Beltran and got ahead of himself or misspoke.

The Mets are still longshots at best in this whole deal, and are much more likely to sign Carlos Delgado.

All that is good, and well. If I have interpreted everything clearly (hah, little chance of that), then Carlos wants Houston or Cubbies or Angels.

Astros are trying.
Cubbies are trying to offload Sosa (to get in the queue for you know who)
Yankees will drive up the prices while having a large Puerto Rican base, but even with buddy Bernie is not a Carlos-friendly destination.
Angels took Finley, dropped out of CB-stakes.

So, if Beltran does not want the Yanks, why consider the Mets (except to push the $$$ up).
And, if he was Angel-ic might be be Dodger-ific?

This signing appears to be a marathon with 1/8/05 the finish line.

JunkyardDwg

12-18-2004, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by Roc Paint
I doubt you would be saying this if we land him. Beltran will be an Astro in no later than two weeks.

Damn straight... if we land him... i'll be saying... GOD I LOVE THIS S**T!! :)

but I am running out of patience

Roc Paint

12-19-2004, 03:19 AM

Me too Dawg. :)

bigboymumu

12-19-2004, 03:18 PM

Let him go. I bet we are working on some trades that aren't so obvious!

Uprising

12-20-2004, 03:59 AM

Man, i can't wait till we get him. it's going to be so awesome.

NJRocket

12-20-2004, 08:57 AM

This is getting ridiculous. According to ESPN, Steinbrenner is meeting with Boras today or tomorrow to discuss Carlos...but will not get into serious negotiations until AFTER JANUARY 8th!!! If this is true, we might as well turn our attention elsewhere because we are about to get royally screwed.

If this is true, and Carlos knows it...then he will sign with us this week if he really wants to return to Houston. Otherwise, its obvious we never had a shot.

MadMax

12-20-2004, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by NJRocket
This is getting ridiculous. According to ESPN, Steinbrenner is meeting with Boras today or tomorrow to discuss Carlos...but will not get into serious negotiations until AFTER JANUARY 8th!!! If this is true, we might as well turn our attention elsewhere because we are about to get royally screwed.

If this is true, and Carlos knows it...then he will sign with us this week if he really wants to return to Houston. Otherwise, its obvious we never had a shot.

until after Jan. 8th sounds like the biggest negotiating ploy....EVER!!!

seriously...how stupid do you think we are, scott? you played out the Angels because YOU tried to establish the market on a player in a flat market. you set this meeting up with the Yanks to try to build the notion that they're driving up the bidding on beltran, in the midst of their pursuit for randy. what a joke.

NJRocket

12-20-2004, 09:11 AM

Originally posted by NJRocket
...but will not get into serious negotiations until AFTER JANUARY 8th!!! .

i believe they actually said that they wouldnt make a serious offer until after the 8th...either way, i aint happy

codell

12-20-2004, 09:13 AM

Im not going to start worrying till Janaury 3rd.

:cool:

Blatz

12-20-2004, 09:17 AM

Originally posted by codell
Im not going to start worrying till Janaury 3rd.

:cool:

Whats January 3rd?

NJRocket

12-20-2004, 09:24 AM

Originally posted by Blatz
Whats January 3rd?

the day Codell is going to start worrying

codell

12-20-2004, 09:29 AM

Originally posted by NJRocket
the day Codell is going to start worrying

you're so awesome lol

VesceySux

12-20-2004, 11:12 AM

Small Beltran update: No real movement. Unless the Cubs move Sosa, they're out of the race. (Source reiterated that Chicago is his first choice.) Yankees have jumped back in. If the money is close, Beltran prefers the Astros over the Yankees, anyway.

Also, the Randy Johnson trade is done. Penny just has to take a physical.

(Yeah, not exactly breaking news here, but whatever.)

meh

12-20-2004, 11:20 AM

Just something to clarify on the Sosa thing, if it hadn't already been made certain. Moving him will NOT help the Cubs' financial situation. He has a clause in his contract which will make his option for 2006 automatic should he be traded. This means that whoever gets him does not have him at a 1yr/~$17mil. But rather 2yrs/~$37-40mil(forgot the exact numbers).

Now, Sosa's probably worth about 2yrs/$10-15 mil at most on the FA market. Which means the Cubs are going to get about $20+ mil of contract deadweight from any club to make financial sense of the trade. Basically, the Cubs are screwed.

Groogrux

12-20-2004, 11:22 AM

I can't see any teams taking on Sosa until Beltran is signed. They know why they want to get rid of Sosa so quick that they'll either hold out or hold the Cubs over the coals.

If this new info is true, I think we have to turn to someone else. Ideally, a non-Boras client.

NJRocket

12-20-2004, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by Rocketman95
If this new info is true, I think we have to turn to someone else. Ideally, a non-Boras client.

We may not have a choice seeing as how the Dodgers are supposedly making a run at Drew with the extra money they will have after the RJ trade

Groogrux

12-20-2004, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by NJRocket
We may not have a choice seeing as how the Dodgers are supposedly making a run at Drew with the extra money they will have after the RJ trade

Drew is a Boras client.

NJRocket

12-20-2004, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by Rocketman95
Drew is a Boras client.

I know...i was saying that we may not have a choice even if we wanted a boras client since drew is now close to supposedly being off the market as well

Groogrux

12-20-2004, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by NJRocket
I know...i was saying that we may not have a choice even if we wanted a boras client since drew is now close to supposedly being off the market as well

Lousy cold weather affecting my brain. :D

Has Ordonez signed anywhere?

NJRocket

12-20-2004, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by Rocketman95
Lousy cold weather affecting my brain. :D

Has Ordonez signed anywhere?

no...i think id only want him as a last resort...id be hesitant to have 2 guys in the OF coming off of surgery...but when healthy, he is very productive

codell

12-20-2004, 11:47 AM

isn't ordonez a Boras client too?

Groogrux

12-20-2004, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by codell
isn't ordonez a Boras client too?

Probably.

Any good available free agent OFs that aren't Boras clients?

MadMax

12-20-2004, 12:06 PM

sy sperling is also a client.

codell

12-20-2004, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by Rocketman95
Probably.

Any good available free agent OFs that aren't Boras clients?

I think Brian Hunter is available.

VesceySux

12-20-2004, 12:37 PM

The hot new rumor is that the Yankees will offer Ishii (whom they'll receive in the Big Unit trade) and change (Kevin Brown?) for Andruw Jones. I guess that would leave us with Beltran. Just a rumor. (Pity poor Boras if that happened.)

MadMax

12-20-2004, 12:41 PM

NIKEstrad

12-20-2004, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by VesceySux
The hot new rumor is that the Yankees will offer Ishii (whom they'll receive in the Big Unit trade) and change (Kevin Brown?) for Andruw Jones. I guess that would leave us with Beltran. Just a rumor. (Pity poor Boras if that happened.)

Whoa. The thing is, where does that leave the Braves? Their 40 man roster only has 4 OFs as it is- without Jones, they don't have an OF over 25, and the other 3 I believe don't have any ML experience other than some September call-up ABs. The Yankees don't have expendable OFs on their 40 (their only listed outfielders are Matsui-Williams-Sheffield plus Bubba Crosby). I don't know if any of these Braves guys are supposed to be hot prospects, but they're not allowed to even negotiate with JD Drew, and they lost Thomas in the Hudson deal.

I'm not too worried about Beltran to Atlanta, just because they have Andruw, and I'm guessing Boras is a little pissed about them non-tendering Drew. (Though I suppose he plays it, look you don't have to lose a draft pick!)

Chipper could move back to the OF, but then you have a hole at 3rd.

I'm most interested to see what we do with Miller right now...

NJRocket

12-20-2004, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by VesceySux

Also, the Randy Johnson trade is done. Penny just has to take a physical.

(Yeah, not exactly breaking news here, but whatever.)

Actually, Selig said he wants to see the extension for RJ and Green before he ok's it...Gammons said it was more of an issue that Vazquez didnt want to go to LA...he also said that this was a way for LA to go out and sign Lowe and Drew.

NJRocket

12-20-2004, 02:03 PM

Also...gammons alluded to the fact that Omar Minaya was at Sammy's "renewal of wedding vows" ceremony over the weekend sparking rumors that the Mets are still interested

MadMax

12-20-2004, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by NJRocket
Also...gammons alluded to the fact that Omar Minaya was at Sammy's "renewal of wedding vows" ceremony over the weekend sparking rumors that the Mets are still interested

i heard that...i also heard that Mets ownership is scared of Sammy because of steroids.

NJRocket

12-20-2004, 02:29 PM

The Mets scare because they are so unbelievably stupid, that they would be the ones to take on Sammy's entire contract

Gene the PIG

12-20-2004, 10:10 PM

Not to freak anyone out or anything, just adding to the converstaion ... but ESPN NEWS has a little thingy on their screen,(as I type) that says Beltran (not Boras) is PERSONALLY meeting with Big Stein on Tue.

Yikes!

The Ess is hitting the fan methinks.

codell

12-20-2004, 10:13 PM

weakfromtoday

12-20-2004, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by Gene the PIG
Not to freak anyone out or anything, just adding to the converstaion ... but ESPN NEWS has a little thingy on their screen,(as I type) that says Beltran (not Boras) is PERSONALLY meeting with Big Stein on Tue.

Yikes!

The Ess is hitting the fan methinks.

Link to AP article (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=1950445)

Associated Press

NEW YORK -- Carlos Beltran will get to meet George Steinbrenner on Tuesday.

The free-agent center fielder will travel to Tampa, Fla., to talk with the New York Yankees owner, who wants to added another high-priced All-Star to his collection.

Steinbrenner planned to attend the meeting with Yankees president Randy Levine and general manager Brian Cashman.

Beltran finished the season with the Houston Astros, who would like to re-sign him. It's also possible that the Chicago Cubs and Los Angeles Dodgers could pursue him.

Uprising

12-21-2004, 02:14 AM

So, he won't meet with Purporalalalablahblah , but will meet with the Yankees in person? ARGH!

JunkyardDwg

12-21-2004, 02:21 AM

Originally posted by weakfromtoday
Link to AP article (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=1950445)

Associated Press

NEW YORK -- Carlos Beltran will get to meet George Steinbrenner on Tuesday.

The free-agent center fielder will travel to Tampa, Fla., to talk with the New York Yankees owner, who wants to added another high-priced All-Star to his collection.

Steinbrenner planned to attend the meeting with Yankees president Randy Levine and general manager Brian Cashman.

Beltran finished the season with the Houston Astros, who would like to re-sign him. It's also possible that the Chicago Cubs and Los Angeles Dodgers could pursue him.

Take that info with a grain of salt... remember... Beltran doesn't take a piss w/o Boras' approval. So the only reason he is even meeting w/ georgie boy is because Boras arranged it. Think about it, Beltran meets with the Yankees first...not the Astros who are the only team w/ a CLEAR and PUBLIC desire to sign Beltran. I know the Yankees want him, but obviously not as much as the 'Stros. Smells like a bargaining ploy to me. Either way..... urge to kill (Boras) rising.

Blatz

12-21-2004, 02:33 AM

...Smells like a bargaining ploy to me. Either way..... urge to kill (Boras) rising.

That's what I was thinking. Seems like he's trying to scare the Astros into raising their price.

Mr. Mooch

12-21-2004, 02:39 AM

He's meeting with Steinbrenner? FANTASTIC NEWS!

The Boss did a great job at scaring off that other free agent a couple of weeks back.

ROCKSS

12-21-2004, 08:14 AM

Originally posted by NJRocket
The Mets scare because they are so unbelievably stupid, that they would be the ones to take on Sammy's entire contract

I`m sure the Mets would force the Cubs to pay a portion of his contract.

ArtV

12-21-2004, 08:19 AM

My pessimistic emotion is overcoming me on this one. I feel like the Yanks string him and us out (payback for getting Roger), the Cubs have time to unload Corky and Beltran signs with the Cubs leaving us with the crumbs of the FAs - though some of them may not be too bad.

NJRocket

12-21-2004, 09:01 AM

Don't put anything past King George...wouldn't shock me if Carlos accepts a deal in principle from the Yankees by tonight.

MadMax

12-21-2004, 09:04 AM

Given the kind of person I hear Carlos is...I'm not sure Steinbrenner is the best representative for the Yankees to have talking to him. We'll see.

NJRocket

12-21-2004, 09:24 AM

http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/36819.htm (http://http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/36819.htm)

Carl Pavano will be introduced tomorrow at Yankee Stadium. Randy Johnson is likely coming soon. But the biggest point of emphasis in the Yankees' universe today is Carlos Beltran.

Beltran, the jewel of this year's free agent class, and his agent, Scott Boras, are slated to meet today in Tampa with George Steinbrenner. They hope to build upon the dialogue GM Brian Cashman started with Boras at the Winter Meetings last week.

The Yankees have been the favorite to get Beltran since the 27-year-old switch-hitting center fielder filed for free agency, but they aren't alone. The Astros, who thanks to Beltran's smoking October bat came within one game of going to the World Series, are expected to make a serious pitch to retain him. The Cubs and Mets are also interested. Boras says there is a fifth team in the mix for a player some predict will land a seven-year deal worth $105 million.

Beltran would be replacing the very popular Bernie Williams in center field, but he is such a talent that nobody will gripe about Williams being pushed into a DH role.

"He can do everything," Derek Jeter said of Beltran. "He can beat you so many different ways. He has to be up there with the best players in the game."

Beltran batted .258 with 23 homers and 53 RBIs in 90 games for the Astros after being acquired from the Royals on June 24. He hit .278 with 15 homers and 51 RBIs for Kansas City.

Naturally, Joe Torre would welcome Beltran to the heart of his order and the middle of his outfield, where Beltran's defense is very good.

"The one thing when The Boss gets talking it gets serious you get excited because he doesn't talk to a person unless it's a significant individual," said Torre, who hasn't been asked to call Beltran and deliver a recruiting pitch. "He's pretty special. He's young, on top of being special. I know when George Steinbrenner goes out there to get somebody he's pretty determined to do it. Any club that gets Beltran is going to be markedly improved."

Groogrux

12-21-2004, 10:08 AM

My feelings on signing Beltran have gone from utterly optimistic to downright pessimistic. I don't see any way he's coming back.

gunn

12-21-2004, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by ROCKSS
I`m sure the Mets would force the Cubs to pay a portion of his contract.

The last I heard on the subject was that Minaya wanted the Cubs to pay 80 percent of Sammy's contract in order for the Mets to take him.

Nick

12-21-2004, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by Rocketman95
My feelings on signing Beltran have gone from utterly optimistic to downright pessimistic. I don't see any way he's coming back.

I think that's just because we haven't heard anything new since the winter meetings... and apparently, there's a reason for that.

Pupura said this morning that the reason we're not hearing all about the Astros is at the request of Carlos to try to keep things quiet.

You obviously can't tell that to the NY media.... but if you look at their articles, they're all mostly headlines, and there's not much substance to them... and those are the articles that the national media picks up on.

He assured us that they're putting forth as aggressive of an effort as possible.

NJRocket

12-21-2004, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by Nick

Pupura said this morning that the reason we're not hearing all about the Astros is at the request of Carlos to try to keep things quiet.

where/when did you see/hear that?

Blatz

12-21-2004, 11:07 AM

where/when did you see/hear that?

He was on 610 just few minutes ago.

NJRocket

12-21-2004, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by Blatz
He was on 610 just few minutes ago.

did he mention us exploring any other avenues if this didnt pan out with carlos? or is there anyting else we are working on in addition to carlos?

Blatz

12-21-2004, 11:31 AM

I came in and left when he was talking about Carlos wanting the Astros to keep things quiet. Sorry, I'm sure Nick will be able to do small recap, please. I think I heard something about them trying to trade Miller, not sure though.

Stack24

12-21-2004, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by NJRocket
did he mention us exploring any other avenues if this didnt pan out with carlos? or is there anyting else we are working on in addition to carlos?

They asked him about that as well as JD Drew and he said they haven't really talked about JD Drew too much becuase of his history of injury and the fact that he is also represented by Boras. They said that Beltran is their top priority and they have'nt really gone into detail about other players. They basically have just run down the list of outfielders available but haven't given them much though because of how aggresively they have been going after Beltran.

white lightning

12-21-2004, 05:43 PM

I think that Beltran's meeting this week with Steinbrenner is a good sign that he's ready to decide. It seems like Boras has been doing most of the talking and taking the meetings for him until now. He should meet with the Yankees in person first then meet with Drayton and hopefully we can get the deal done.

RocketManJosh

12-21-2004, 07:09 PM

I heard on a Los Angeles Radio Station today that the Yankees are planning on offering Beltran 7 years/106 Million, while the Astros offer is at 6 years/95 Million. I don't know if that is old news or not, but I'm not sure how great it is that Beltran is meeting Steinbrener, while he doesn't even seem to want to talk with the Astros.

gunn

12-21-2004, 07:24 PM

Originally posted by RocketManJosh
I don't know if that is old news or not, but I'm not sure how great it is that Beltran is meeting Steinbrener, while he doesn't even seem to want to talk with the Astros.

He's meeting with Drayton later this week or possibly next week.

bigboymumu

12-21-2004, 07:47 PM

It's time to pass on Beltran. Use the money on multiple players.

NJRocket

12-21-2004, 08:00 PM

790 was saying that Purpura (who was apparently interviewed earlier in the day) mentioned that the Astros DO have a few Plan B's just in case and that one of them included adding an offensive threat at 2B...could that be the Soriano deal?

Nick

12-21-2004, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by NJRocket
790 was saying that Purpura (who was apparently interviewed earlier in the day) mentioned that the Astros DO have a few Plan B's just in case and that one of them included adding an offensive threat at 2B...could that be the Soriano deal?

Alex Cora... splash.

JPM0016

12-21-2004, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by Nick
Alex Cora... splash.

The return of Julio Lugo!!! :)

UTweezer

12-21-2004, 08:15 PM

Davidoff

12-21-2004, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by UTweezer
probably come out even in terms of money because of taxes Thats what I was thinking.....It will come down to what he wants more, not who has the most money on the line..

VesceySux

12-21-2004, 10:22 PM

Wow. Randy Johnson deal went south? Let's pray my source is wrong about Beltran, too (the whole "Cubs first" thing). :)

Fegwu

12-21-2004, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by VesceySux
Wow. Randy Johnson deal went south? Let's pray my source is wrong about Beltran, too (the whole "Cubs first" thing). :)

Domino effect?

PS. I hate when folks come on TV and Radio to say a deal is done when it is not. Jeeez...I feel like strangling someone at ESPN.....starting with that guy called kurk-something.

:mad:

Yanks, D-Backs left to dream up trade again

ESPN.com news services

The Los Angeles Dodgers withdrew Tuesday from the proposed three-team, 10-player trade that would have sent Randy Johnson from the Arizona Diamondbacks to the New York Yankees.

The story was first reported by ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney.

"As we sit here right now, the deal is no more," Dodgers general manager Paul DePodesta said during a conference call. "I've been saying all along that we weren't going to do the deal unless it made sense for this club in 2005, and that was not the case."

Newsday reported on its Web site Tuesday night that Javier Vazquez did not want to play for the Dodgers and refused to travel to Los Angeles for a physical. The paper, citing a source involved in the discussions, cited that as the "primary reason" for the deal's collapse.

This leaves the Yankees and the Diamondbacks to consider other ways to trade Johnson to the Yankees.
Already, the Diamondbacks are believed to be seeking another third-party to replace the Dodgers, fueled by a desire to move the Big Unit's salary once and for all. One major league executive familiar with the talks told ESPN.com that Arizona ownership had already been in contact with several teams late Tuesday night.
The other possibility, of course, is that Arizona and the Yankees will attempt to complete the deal on their own -- although they've failed thus far.

Earlier in the day, an official of one of the teams and a person close to one of the players involved in the trade said the deal had been submitted early Tuesday to baseball commissioner Bud Selig for approval. The two spoke on condition of anonymity.
And the Yankees told Vazquez's agent that the deal had been submitted, causing the agent to tell the pitcher he had been traded.

But Pat Courtney, a spokesman in the commissioner's office, said in the afternoon that more documentation had to be submitted before Selig could consider the complex transaction.
Sources told ESPN that they believed the Dodgers had been holding up the paperwork process.

"There were specific things in this deal that didn't work out," DePodesta said. "There were a lot of things to work out, a lot of things that were tentatively agreed on, but still details that we needed to work through."

Los Angeles would have received right-hander Vazquez from the Yankees along with two top prospects, catcher Dioner Navarro and third baseman Eric Duncan. The Dodgers also would have gotten pitcher Mike Koplove from Arizona.

Arizona would have gotten outfielder Shawn Green and pitchers Brad Penny, Yhency Brazoban and Brandon Weeden from the Dodgers. Along with Johnson, the Yankees would have gotten pitcher Kaz Ishii from Los Angeles.

"We were probably the most deliberate in approaching it, and at the end of the day, it just wasn't going to come together and make sense for us," DePodesta said.

Johnson, a five-time Cy Young Award winner, has asked the Diamondbacks to trade him, but it's not clear whether the 41-year-old left-hander would accept a deal to any team other than the Yankees. He has a no-trade clause.

DePodesta said it was possible the Dodgers might get back involved in the trade, but he likely wouldn't be the one to initiate additional talks.

"Probably only if they call us," he said. "I don't think we'll actively pursue, but if they come after us, I'm sure we'll listen, as we would in any other case."

Yankees officials met in Tampa, Fla., on Tuesday with free-agent center fielder Carlos Beltran and weren't available following DePodesta's announcement. Diamondbacks officials didn't return telephone calls seeking comment.

DePodesta said the Dodgers had not been looking to trade Green, and that he will speak with the outfielder.

"I'm looking forward to making a call to some of the guys and telling them to settle down and not be concerned with being traded," he said.

A baseball source told ESPN's Karl Ravech Tuesday night that Green has no desire to finish his career with the Dodgers and that the outfielder does not plan to re-sign with Los Angeles when his contract expires after the 2005 season. According to the source, Green appeared ready to waive his no-trade clause to report to the Diamondbacks as part of the Johnson deal.

Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

by the way, DePodesta sounds and comes accross like a moran [sic].

ROCKET RICH NYC

12-21-2004, 11:14 PM

Just heard from a friend that the Yankees are NOT going to be going after Beltran after all. I don't know how good the source is. Also, somebody up here in NY said they heard on WFAN earlier that Beltran with the Yankees is a dead deal. HOPEFULLY GOOD NEWS FOR THE ASTROS!!!!:D

Alimoe84

12-21-2004, 11:14 PM

Don't get me wrong, but I love Carlos Beltran as much as the next guy, but we can't wait forever on this guy. We're waiting on thsi guy why all of the good free agents are going to other teams. We lost Kent. We lost Miller. We're waiting on Clemens. We're waiting on Beltran. This isn't exactly the winter I was hoping for thus far. We have to get this team together and get it together soon before it's too late.

DVauthrin

12-21-2004, 11:35 PM

Originally posted by ROCKET RICH NYC
Just heard from a friend that the Yankees are NOT going to be going after Beltran after all. I don't know how good the source is. Also, somebody up here in NY said they heard on WFAN earlier that Beltran with the Yankees is a dead deal. HOPEFULLY GOOD NEWS FOR THE ASTROS!!!!:D

I don't have inside info, but I don't really think Beltran was anything more than a passing fancy by George. Every article connected to the Yankees and Beltran showed the clubs ambivalence towards signing him. And unlike others, I took the January 9th thing that got so many fans upset to mean exactly that, and Boras is the one painted in a corner, not the Astros.

Right now Scotty boy has no leverage. None. That is why HE initiated the meeting with Steinbrenner because right now it's the Astros and only the Astros serious about Carlos. Exactly the same thing with all the Sosa talks heating up stuff. And what is not mentioned about any Sosa deal is that the Cubs are not going to get salary relief out of the deal, as they will have to pay the majority of his contract in any possible trade.

I applaud the Astros for the way they have handled Boras. This is the exact opposite of what Tom Hicks and the Rangers did with A-Rod, and I seriously doubt the Astros don't have other players in the wings after the Beltran shoe drops. No GM is that naive, and Purpura learned from one of the best in the business.

NIKEstrad

12-22-2004, 12:29 AM

Thanks RRNYC.

DV- I completely agree. I think Purpura has taken a pretty good approach all along. He just needs to not blink now. I would love for Drayton's Christmas deadline to actually hold true.

Gene the PIG

12-22-2004, 12:32 AM

The New York Yankees most definitely ARE offering him a contract!!! This, an hour ago EST. from New Yok's NEWSDAY:

Boss meets with Beltran, offer to come

Email this story

Printer friendly format

BY KEN DAVIDOFF AND JON HEYMAN
STAFF WRITERS

December 22, 2004

As they watched their trade for Randy Johnson fall apart yesterday, the Yankees took some time out to meet with their other big target of the offseason. George Steinbrenner and Carlos Beltran met for the first time, and the Yankees are expected to make Beltran an offer shortly.

In Tampa, Beltran and his agent, Scott Boras, met with Steinbrenner, Yankees general manager Brian Cashman and president Randy Levine. One person who was briefed on the hour-long session said it was a cordial get-together.

Beltran and Boras are expected to meet with Astros owner Drayton McLane, as well, at some point this week.

The Astros, with whom Beltran concluded the 2004 season, already have an offer on the table, reported to be at six years and $81 million. That is a package that the Yankees could easily top, yet there figures to be more competitors for Beltran's services.

The Mets could enter the bidding at some point, as well. And the Chicago Cubs very much want to try to sign Beltran, but team officials insist that they can do so only if they trade Sammy Sosa -- even though Sosa is signed through only 2005, meaning there would be just one year of a Sosa-Beltran overlap on the payroll.

The Yankees have targeted Beltran for about a year, as they view him as the perfect successor to Bernie Williams in centerfield.

Williams, the club's starting centerfielder since 1993, has one year left on his contract. He has begun to slow down in recent years, and he could be shifted over to the designated hitter spot in 2005.

"Bernie's always been of the mind that there's a spot for him," Yankees manager Joe Torre said Monday, at a Yankee Stadium news conference. "There'll be a spot for him. If you get a guy like Beltran, obviously, he's going to play centerfield."

Derek Jeter, at the same event, said of Beltran, "He's an outstanding player. He can help you in so many different ways. He's got to be up there with the best players in the game."

Beltran, 27, spoke during the season of his interest in joining the Yankees. He went so far as to say that he and Williams had discussed the matter, and that Williams would "step down" from centerfield for his fellow Puerto Rico native.

Williams politely disputed that account last month, but the Yankees believe that Williams wouldn't cause a disruption if Beltran signs with them.

"Bernie's been a team guy," Torre said. "He's never been tough to manage as far as having him understand what we're doing."

Some friends of Beltran believe that he could forego the Yankees to re-sign with the Astros, where he enjoyed himself following his June trade from the Kansas City Royals.

In any case, Beltran is expected to make his decision by January 8, the last day he can re-up with Houston.

------------

So there ya go.

DVauthrin

12-22-2004, 12:50 AM

Originally posted by Gene the PIG
The New York Yankees most definitely ARE offering him a contract!!! This, an hour ago EST. from New Yok's NEWSDAY:

Boss meets with Beltran, offer to come

Email this story

Printer friendly format

BY KEN DAVIDOFF AND JON HEYMAN
STAFF WRITERS

December 22, 2004

As they watched their trade for Randy Johnson fall apart yesterday, the Yankees took some time out to meet with their other big target of the offseason. George Steinbrenner and Carlos Beltran met for the first time, and the Yankees are expected to make Beltran an offer shortly.

In Tampa, Beltran and his agent, Scott Boras, met with Steinbrenner, Yankees general manager Brian Cashman and president Randy Levine. One person who was briefed on the hour-long session said it was a cordial get-together.

Beltran and Boras are expected to meet with Astros owner Drayton McLane, as well, at some point this week.

The Astros, with whom Beltran concluded the 2004 season, already have an offer on the table, reported to be at six years and $81 million. That is a package that the Yankees could easily top, yet there figures to be more competitors for Beltran's services.

The Mets could enter the bidding at some point, as well. And the Chicago Cubs very much want to try to sign Beltran, but team officials insist that they can do so only if they trade Sammy Sosa -- even though Sosa is signed through only 2005, meaning there would be just one year of a Sosa-Beltran overlap on the payroll.

The Yankees have targeted Beltran for about a year, as they view him as the perfect successor to Bernie Williams in centerfield.

Williams, the club's starting centerfielder since 1993, has one year left on his contract. He has begun to slow down in recent years, and he could be shifted over to the designated hitter spot in 2005.

"Bernie's always been of the mind that there's a spot for him," Yankees manager Joe Torre said Monday, at a Yankee Stadium news conference. "There'll be a spot for him. If you get a guy like Beltran, obviously, he's going to play centerfield."

Derek Jeter, at the same event, said of Beltran, "He's an outstanding player. He can help you in so many different ways. He's got to be up there with the best players in the game."

Beltran, 27, spoke during the season of his interest in joining the Yankees. He went so far as to say that he and Williams had discussed the matter, and that Williams would "step down" from centerfield for his fellow Puerto Rico native.

Williams politely disputed that account last month, but the Yankees believe that Williams wouldn't cause a disruption if Beltran signs with them.

"Bernie's been a team guy," Torre said. "He's never been tough to manage as far as having him understand what we're doing."

Some friends of Beltran believe that he could forego the Yankees to re-sign with the Astros, where he enjoyed himself following his June trade from the Kansas City Royals.

In any case, Beltran is expected to make his decision by January 8, the last day he can re-up with Houston.

------------

So there ya go.

Give me a break. If the Yankees really wanted Beltran, they wouldn't have waited until the end of December to make an initial offer. And again this is just another lovely fluff piece by the New York media, chock full of old news about the Mets and the Cubs and nice, pretty quotes by Yankee players about Carlos, some of which are basically repeats of those said midseason.

And lastly, all the article says is the Yankees are expected to make an offer shortly. The article doesn't even go any further into detail than just the reporters own speculation. No statement by George or Cashman backing that up, nothing.

I don't really put that much stock in an article that seems to be written by using old quotes/information, with no substance to be found anywhere.

Still the offseason is more than a month old and the Yankees have not made Beltran a real offer. That says a lot about the interest from their end of the equation.

weakfromtoday

12-22-2004, 01:16 AM

Houston Chronicle (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/2959485)

Dec. 22, 2004, 12:15AM
McLane to hold talks with Beltran, Boras
Meeting follows Yankees' session with free agent
By JOSE DE JESUS ORTIZ
Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle

Comparing himself to a middle reliever in the bullpen, Astros owner Drayton McLane is eagerly awaiting a call from All-Star center fielder Carlos Beltran and superagent Scott Boras.
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Beltran and Boras met with Yankees owner George Steinbrenner, general manager Brian Cashman and some of the team's other top officials Tuesday in Tampa, Fla., for a getting-to-know-you session. According to industry sources, the Yankees did not make an offer to Beltran, who is considered the top free agent on the market this winter.

Beltran and Boras will likely meet with McLane today or Thursday, and McLane likes his chances of selling Beltran on the Astros. If they meet Thursday, history may be on McLane's side. Thursday marks the one-year anniversary of the day McLane visited Roger and Debbie Clemens for his first in-home pitch asking the future Hall of Famer to come out of retirement.

Over Christmas cookies baked by Debbie Clemens, McLane put on the charm last Dec. 23 and set in motion Roger Clemens' decision to come out of retirement and win his record seventh Cy Young Award.

Partly because of the excitement Clemens helped create in Houston, McLane is confident he can lobby Beltran to re-sign with the Astros.

"I think we have a wonderful opportunity," McLane said. "I think he loved Houston, loved the clubhouse and loved the ballpark. I think if it's anywhere close, we win."

Astros general manager Tim Purpura and president of baseball operations Tal Smith have already set a foundation in the negotiations with Boras, who also has talked personally and via phone with McLane since October. The face-to-face meeting is up next.

"We're the middle reliever," McLane said. "We don't know whether we're coming in the fifth or the eighth inning. We're warmed up, psyched up and want to get in."

Although McLane wouldn't confirm the exact time of the meeting, he did not deny that a face-to-face get-together with Boras and Beltran has been set for today or Thursday.

LongTimeFan

12-22-2004, 01:55 AM

With all the free agents drying up, Soriano looks like plan B more and more..

yellaman

12-22-2004, 03:18 AM

forget soriano...he sucked in the playoffs with the yankees those few yrs, he ks too much, doesnt have a high ob%, horrible defensively....on the other hand you have a young pitcher in backe who has tons of potential, playoff experience, and will only get better...u dont trade good starting pitching for a bat.

Houstonrocketss

12-22-2004, 04:45 AM

Beltran would be a fool if not an idiot if he passed up playing for the Astros....The Yankess are going nowhere...

If your reading this Carlos think back to the A-rod days in Texas when he sucked all their money and inturn they sucked for good.

Gene the PIG

12-22-2004, 08:49 AM

You're correct in that it could be a fluff piece ... but then again, maybe it's valid? One just never knows, do they?

Besides, every paper in every town prints "fluff pieces."

Didn't we hear the other day that Beltran wants the Astros to "keep it quiet?" Didn't our GM say that on some radio show?

Well, why I love Drayton, THIS seems pretty weird to say at a time we're supposed to "keep it quiet."

"I think we have a wonderful opportunity," McLane said. "I think he loved Houston, loved the clubhouse and loved the ballpark. I think if it's anywhere close, we win."

WE WIN?

Oh well, we shall see. I hope so.

NJRocket

12-22-2004, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by Houstonrocketss
....The Yankess are going nowhere...

you watch a lot of baseball I take it , huh?

George will make him an offer...its just his way and it always has been. However, if he doesn't think that Carlos will sign there (which could have been the reason for the meeting - i.e. to feel Carlos out about whether or not he would like to play for the Yankees moreso than say, Houston), he won't offer him a deal...George doesn't like to be turned down...it takes away from his aura of self proclaimed invincibility. He is sort of like the doctor that only wants to treat really curable patients so his success rates are higher.

The fact that George let Boras and Carlos walk out of the Yankee offices without a formal offer...or even a hint of an offer for that matter...knowing full well that Carlos' next stop is most likely Houston for a meeting with Drayton, is a good sign in my opinion.

The media will spin it as "well, it is just a preliminary meeting so that Carlos can see what the Yanks are about and vice versa...so Carlos can see what type of commitment they have and vice versa" NOT! The Yankees could care less about anything but proven production and they knew what Carlos could do before he hit that HR off of his shoetops. Carlos knew what the Yankees were about each and every time his Royals played in Yankee stadium and got smoked. He could see monument park from center field and could touch the plaques of Babe Ruth, Dimaggio, Mantle, Berra etc and think that one day he could be on one himself. Needless to say, there was no need for a preliminary meeting...there isn't anything that either party could learn about the other that wasn't already known.

I think Drayton, while he may be playing it close to the vest, is going to lock up Beltran by New Years Day.

MadMax

12-22-2004, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by NJRocket

The fact that George let Boras and Carlos walk out of the Yankee offices without a formal offer...or even a hint of an offer for that matter...knowing full well that Carlos' next stop is most likely Houston for a meeting with Drayton, is a good sign in my opinion.

i could not agree more. you have a formal meeting 4 days before the Astros "soft" deadline and just a couple of weeks before the Jan 8th deadline...and no offer?

i agree...george knows what the rest of us guessed...beltran liked houston and boras is trying to drive up the price. by not making an offer, george keeps from being a pawn in boras' game. and saves face in any potential bidding war, that he thinks he'll might lose considering beltran's preferences.

DVauthrin

12-22-2004, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by Gene the PIG
You're correct in that it could be a fluff piece ... but then again, maybe it's valid? One just never knows, do they?

Besides, every paper in every town prints "fluff pieces."

Didn't we hear the other day that Beltran wants the Astros to "keep it quiet?" Didn't our GM say that on some radio show?

Well, why I love Drayton, THIS seems pretty weird to say at a time we're supposed to "keep it quiet."

"I think we have a wonderful opportunity," McLane said. "I think he loved Houston, loved the clubhouse and loved the ballpark. I think if it's anywhere close, we win."

WE WIN?

Oh well, we shall see. I hope so.

Let me explain. I studied journalism in college at UT-Austin. Newsday had to write something about the Boras-Steinbrenner meeting because it's their job. However, any good reporter knows they should have had reporters in Tampa ready to get statements from Cashman/Steinbrenner about the meeting. Now, it's possible they did, and they decided to not run them, but that just doesn't seem that feasible considering that's not how a reporter is supposed to write a story. Granted, Beltran/Boras asked to keep things quiet, but come on, one little quote by Cashman saying we plan to offer by blank date is not hurting negotiations and adds credibility to this piece.

Here is what we know:

a)Scott Boras set up this meeting, presumably because he has no leverage to get more money for his client
b) The Yankees haven't made an official offer by December 21st to the premier free agent on the market(a guy they supposedly want?)
c) The Yankees have made two trades, almost 3, and signed such vaunted players as Tony Womack and Jaret Wright by this time

Now all that considered along with the way the article was written, it almost looks like a PR type of piece to make the fans happy(a way of showing we will try, but he won't come). They may in fact make an offer, but I think it's more like offering to appease George's fancy and the Yankees fan base than actually thinking Carlos is theirs.

If this interest was genuine on both sides, the Yankees wouldn't have waited more than a month to make the guy a formal offer. That's the point.

tigereye

12-22-2004, 12:38 PM

Because of the Dodgers antics, this is a perfect situation for you guys.

From a source of mine who posts at nyyfans....he's our Doc Rocket....

Because of the Big Unit deal falling apart, expect the Yanks to put the Beltran issue on the back burner and devote all of there resources to getting Big Unit in pinstripes. The obvious, most pressing issue for this team last year was there pitching. Its what this team has concentrated on the most this off-season. And Big Unit is there big target. Unlike Beltran, George not only would like to have Unit, but wants and needs him. Whatever George wants, he usually gets. This will take sometime, which will buy the Astros some time to lock up Beltran.

My un-biased prediction.....Beltran ends up in Houston some time in the first week of January, no later then the 6th. Boras will not let this drag on past the 8th cause by then, the Astros, whom are the biggest player for his client, will have to drop out. This makes an already thin market for Beltran even thinner, making the chances of him landing a big deal, more unlikely. The feeling is, as long as the Astros are part of this, because of Beltran's stated desire of wanting to stay, it would put the pressure on the Astros to counter any offer any other team makes, thus upping the stakes and offerings for Beltran. The Astros have apparently known this all a long, thus have kept the cards close to there vest. If they had been over anxious and made an offer, the Yanks would have countered with a larger offer, forcing the Astros hand and engaging a bidding war, which the Astros would have been the loser, no matter if they kept Beltran or not.

But instead, the Astros have played smart and will most likely be the ultimate winners in the end.

Oski2005

12-22-2004, 01:12 PM

I don't know why you'd call what the dodgers did "antics," as if they were wrong for backing out. The paper work was never sent to the commish as it was reported and they were getting screwed in that deal. If the other teams involved had treated them with more respect and made the deal worth their while, the deal would have happened.

bobrek

12-22-2004, 03:01 PM

According to www.chron.com, McLane and Purpura met with Beltran and Boras today in Florida. They will supposedly have a comment once they arrive back in Houston this evening.

shawn786

12-22-2004, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by bobrek
According to www.chron.com, McLane and Purpura met with Beltran and Boras today in Florida. They will supposedly have a comment once they arrive back in Houston this evening.

Thank you 4 that, I cant freakin wait! Any Info gets me excited!

Castor27

12-22-2004, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by Oski2005
I don't know why you'd call what the dodgers did "antics," as if they were wrong for backing out. The paper work was never sent to the commish as it was reported and they were getting screwed in that deal. If the other teams involved had treated them with more respect and made the deal worth their while, the deal would have happened.

You have participated in OOTp. Ask anyone how they felt about Deve after he made some similar trades. He would agree to them in chat and then he would back out after the other person posted them in the transaction threads.
If some paperwork was submitted to the league then in effect the Dodgers had pretty much agreed on it. Backing out at the last minute is not going to endear DePodesta to some of the other GM's.

shawn786

12-22-2004, 04:39 PM

Astros, Beltran meet in Florida

December 22, 2004
HOUSTON (AP) -- Carlos Beltran met with Astros officials on Wednesday, Houston's latest effort to keep the All-Star center fielder who led the team within one win of its first World Series.

Beltran and his agent, Scott Boras, spoke with Astros owner Drayton McLane, team president Tal Smith and general manager Tim Purpura at the team's spring training camp in Kissimmee, Fla. A day earlier, the Beltran met with New York Yankees owner George Steinbrenner in Tampa.

``We feel we had a positive discussion today,'' Astros owner Drayton McLane said in a statement. ``We'll continue to have dialogue in the hopes of having Carlos in an Astros uniform for many years to come.''

McLane and other Astros officials returned to Houston after the session and weren't immediately available for additional comment.

Beltran batted .417 in the NL championship series with four home runs, five RBIs and four steals after hitting .455 with four homers and nine RBIs in the division series.

In addition to the Yankees, the Chicago Cubs are also thought to be pursuing Beltran. If Houston doesn't reach an agreement by Jan. 8, the Astros would be ineligible to re-sign him until May 1.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpcDBuM2RlBF9TAzk1ODYxNzc3BHNlYwN0aA--?slug=ap-astros-beltran&prov=ap&type=lgns

VesceySux

12-22-2004, 04:41 PM

Unrelated: Boras sent a basket of Mrs. Fields cookies to the office. They really hit the spot, so he's back on my good side now. :)

MadMax

12-22-2004, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by VesceySux
Unrelated: Boras sent a basket of Mrs. Fields cookies to the office. They really hit the spot, so he's back on my good side now. :)

that's the best Boras can do?? Mrs. Fields cookies?? hell,the company we order office supplies from sends us Mrs. Fields cookies!! :D

VesceySux

12-22-2004, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by MadMax
that's the best Boras can do?? Mrs. Fields cookies?? hell,the company we order office supplies from sends us Mrs. Fields cookies!! :D

He also sent a bunch of sweet autographed stuff... but not to me. :(

weakfromtoday

12-22-2004, 08:26 PM

So, are we supposed to be getting a statement from Drayton tonite or is it just going to be in tommorrow's Chronicle?

I have a feeling it will be more of the same "we had a positive conversation" stuff.

bobrek

12-22-2004, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by weakfromtoday
So, are we supposed to be getting a statement from Drayton tonite or is it just going to be in tommorrow's Chronicle?

I have a feeling it will be more of the same "we had a positive conversation" stuff.

Go to astros.mlb.com for the story.

weakfromtoday

12-22-2004, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by bobrek
Go to astros.mlb.com for the story.

Yeah, more of the same. At least they didn't have a "negative discussion".

Refman

12-22-2004, 11:14 PM

Originally posted by MadMax
that's the best Boras can do?? Mrs. Fields cookies?? hell,the company we order office supplies from sends us Mrs. Fields cookies!! :D
You got cookies from your office supply company???!!! I'll be there tomorrow...2:00 good for you? :D ;)

Nashvegas

12-23-2004, 02:18 AM

6 years, 80 million is our offer according to "sources" per Channel 2 news. apparently yesterday the yankees didn't even make an offer...so we'll see. i hope he stays with us.

weakfromtoday

12-23-2004, 02:34 AM

Originally posted by Nashvegas
6 years, 80 million is our offer according to "sources" per Channel 2 news. apparently yesterday the yankees didn't even make an offer...so we'll see. i hope he stays with us.

Chron is saying their sources tell them 6 years 96M

Beltran shown the money
Astros sparing no expense over coveted free agent
By JOSE DE JESUS ORTIZ
Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle

McLane, Astros general manager Tim Purpura and president of baseball operations Tal Smith hosted Beltran and his agent, Scott Boras, at the team's spring training facility in Kissimmee, Fla. After a tour, McLane ushered the parties to the conference room to make his offer and recruiting pitch a day after Yankees owner George Steinbrenner led a similar meeting with Boras and Beltran in Tampa, Fla.

Although the Astros declined to divulge the offer, industry sources say Beltran's price topped $16 million per year based on the offers he has received and the current market. It is clear the Astros offered at least a six-year, $96 million deal.

"It's a very, very substantial offer and one that we feel is certainly competitive, although we have no way of knowing that," Purpura said.

"I think we're at a point with this negotiation where we have entertained offers from everyone," Boras said via phone. "We're moving at a much more rapid pace."

Drawing on some of the same techniques he used last year while recruiting Roger Clemens, McLane emphasized the Houston community's desire to have Beltran in an Astros uniform.

"We were just showing his great leadership and accomplishments," McLane said of the postseason highlight video. "And we were trying to show him all those signs from fans saying, 'We love Carlos.' "

Beltran also received a book of about 250 e-mails the Astros have received from fans urging the club to re-sign Beltran, who is considered by baseball officials the top free agent.

Beltran returned to his home in Puerto Rico, and Boras returned to his home in California on Wednesday afternoon. McLane and Purpura expect to hear back from Boras after Christmas to resume negotiations. The Astros have until Jan. 8 to sign Beltran or lose all negotiating rights until May.

"I think certainly out of respect for Carlos and all of us and our families," Purpura said, "we have agreed to put this thing aside and spend the holidays with our families."

The Yankees have been considered the Astros' top competition for Beltran, who hit 38 home runs with 104 RBIs and 42 stolen bases between the Astros and Kansas City Royals this year. Beltran, 27, saved his best for the playoffs, hitting .435 with eight home runs, 14 RBIs, nine walks and six stolen bases over 12 games while leading the Astros within a win of the franchise's first World Series berth.

Economically, the Astros broke down the tax rate in Texas, where there is no state income tax. New York residents pay city and state income taxes along with their national income tax.

On the loyalty front, McLane pointed out that he has stuck by aging veterans Craig Biggio and Jeff Bagwell, who have the majors' longest active tenure as teammates.

"He could be the next generation," McLane said of Beltran.

McLane compared Beltran to Bagwell, who signed a five-year, $85 million deal in 2000.

"Drayton came in an addressed one issue," Boras said. "The issue is this is one franchise player.

"He said, 'I kept a franchise player in Jeff Bagwell in Houston. Carlos is a franchise player, and we intend to keep him in Houston.' "Chron (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/2960856)

Roc Paint

12-23-2004, 03:01 AM

Beltran will be an Astro.

BigM

12-23-2004, 03:37 AM

6 years 96 million huh? if he doesn't take than let him walk.

please stay carlos!

bottlerocket

12-23-2004, 05:36 AM

Originally posted by BigM
6 years 96 million huh? if he doesn't take than let him walk.

I agree.

I wonder if McLane included in his sale pitch that there will be a statue of Beltran in Halliburton Plaza.

MadMax

12-23-2004, 07:38 AM

Originally posted by Roc Paint
Beltran will be an Astro.

wow..no freaking kidding.

$16 million per year. I don't want to hear anyone say, "Drayton didn't do enough...wah," if Beltran doesn't sign here. $16 million is ridiculously fair...and might even be overpaying, given contracts for comparable players in recent years.

as an aside...i continue to be obsessed with this. literally...i freaking love carlos...this guy spends his career in astros colors and he will likely finish as my favorite pro athlete of all time. i know some folks who know the guy, and EVERYTHING i hear is positive. just a great guy and a tremendous talent.

VesceySux

12-23-2004, 07:55 AM

Tejada got 6 years, $72 million (last year).
Vlade got 5 years, $70 million (last year).
Beltre got 5 years, $64 million.
Pedro got 4 years, $54 million.

If Beltran won't take 6 years, $96 million...

Austin70

12-23-2004, 08:10 AM

Originally posted by VesceySux
Tejada got 6 years, $72 million (last year).
Vlade got 5 years, $70 million (last year).
Beltre got 5 years, $64 million.
Pedro got 4 years, $54 million.

If Beltran won't take 6 years, $96 million...

Thanks for all of your inside info, I always have to read what you say............when VesceySux talks........people listen.

MadMax

12-23-2004, 08:13 AM

Originally posted by VesceySux
Tejada got 6 years, $72 million (last year).
Vlade got 5 years, $70 million (last year).
Beltre got 5 years, $64 million.
Pedro got 4 years, $54 million.

If Beltran won't take 6 years, $96 million...

so what do ya think?? beltran signs here??? if so, when?

codell

12-23-2004, 08:14 AM

Originally posted by VesceySux

If Beltran won't take 6 years, $96 million...

Then you let him walk.

Mr. Clutch

12-23-2004, 08:45 AM

Originally posted by VesceySux
Tejada got 6 years, $72 million (last year).
Vlade got 5 years, $70 million (last year).
Beltre got 5 years, $64 million.
Pedro got 4 years, $54 million.

If Beltran won't take 6 years, $96 million...

This is ridiculous. We are overpaying, and we the rest of our team is going to lose depth because of it unless Drayton doesn't mind shelling out more money.

MadMax

12-23-2004, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by Mr. Clutch
This is ridiculous. We are overpaying, and we the rest of our team is going to lose depth because of it unless Drayton doesn't mind shelling out more money.

drayton's damned if he does...damned if he don't.

leroy420

12-23-2004, 09:00 AM

At the most, they might add another year, but still stay @ $16 mil. There is no reason they should go any higher. Drayton made the pitch. I seriously doubt that Georgie showed up with a book full of fan emails and letters from civic leaders. How many sigs did that petition get? Over 25,000?

If he doesn't sign with the Astros, then the only thing we can blame on the Astros brass is losing out on pretty much every possible plan B. Then again, there could be something up their sleeve that we don't know about, a la Jeff Kent.

VesceySux

12-23-2004, 09:09 AM

Originally posted by MadMax
so what do ya think?? beltran signs here??? if so, when?

Bah. I know nothing more than any of you. My source says he has better things to do than to call up the "Boras people" and help out an Astros fan today. Perhaps if the Yankees were more interested in Beltran, he'd be properly motivated. :)

MadMax

12-23-2004, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by VesceySux
Bah. I know nothing more than any of you. My source says he has better things to do than to call up the "Boras people" and help out an Astros fan today. Perhaps if the Yankees were more interested in Beltran, he'd be properly motivated. :)

no..i meant your opinion. not what you know..what you think.

JPM0016

12-23-2004, 09:12 AM

16 million a year, wow, very surprised by that offer. If Beltran doesn't take it then he must not have really wanted to come back to Houston in the first place.

Groogrux

12-23-2004, 09:13 AM

Originally posted by MadMax
drayton's damned if he does...damned if he don't.

No **** man. The same people who are bitching that we let Miller go would be the first ones bitching that we signed him when he finally has to shut it down next season for surgery. Some of my fellow Astros fans really get on my nerves.

MadMax

12-23-2004, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by Rocketman95
No **** man. The same people who are bitching that we let Miller go would be the first ones bitching that we signed him when he finally has to shut it down next season for surgery. Some of my fellow Astros fans really get on my nerves.

that's exactly right. it's very easy to second- guess when:

1. it's not your money; and

2 you're not charged with the responsibility of being accountable for the decision.

i still need to tell you my story about the astros clubhouse...we need to grab lunch/dinner/a drink sometime soon. actually, my wife karamazov ( :) ) goes out of town on the the 11th...that frees me up for drinks and sports on TV at Live, if you're free! the train goes by there, ya know? :)

Blatz

12-23-2004, 09:19 AM

Found this on a Mets board.

http://www.metsblog.com/blog/_WebPages/Beltran.html

Send an email to faneditorials@metsblog.com containing a well-written pitch to OF Carlos Beltran, stating why you feel he should come to the Mets. Maybe it's because he would enjoy the nightlife, maybe you'll take him to a strip club, maybe you think he'd have much to offer the New York community, maybe you simply believe he can be the perfect leader for a group of young up-and-coming talent in the world's biggest city.

Let us know.

Keep your statement pithy, well-researched, sincere and less than 500 words.

The Houston fans compiled 250 responses, so don't be shy...if you have something to say, say it now.

We will accept submissions through the weekend. If we receieve a comparable amount, we'll print each, have it bound, and send it to the attention of the team's management and media department and the office of Scott Boras. We will, of course, post each submission at a new MetsBlog site, BeltranToTheMets.com, as well.

Mets management and most all of the team's media to notice of our mostly negative YesOrNoToSosa.com plea - we know this for a fact. Therefore, we see no reason we shouldn't be positive, as well, and do the same with regards to requesting Beltran.

Like George McFly said, "If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything."

Good luck.

Phillyrocket

12-23-2004, 09:21 AM

Originally posted by leroy420
How many sigs did that petition get? Over 25,000?

29,019 as of this morning:eek:

16 per is more than fair hinging on overpaying. The fans have spoken and Drayton has stepped up to the plate, if Carlos won't take it then let him go.

MadMax

12-23-2004, 09:22 AM

Originally posted by Blatz
Found this on a Mets board.

yeah..i'm begging you, Mets fan. play up the clubbing/strip club theme to carlos. please. please play that angle with him.

codell

12-23-2004, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by MadMax
drayton's damned if he does...damned if he don't.

armchair GM is the most growing profession in the US today

Sishir Chang

12-23-2004, 09:34 AM

Astros make offer to Beltran, $96 Mil for 6 years

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/2960856

'I kept a franchise player in Jeff Bagwell in Houston. Carlos is a franchise player, and we intend to keep him in Houston.' " Drayton McLane

RocketManJosh

12-23-2004, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by RocketManJosh
I heard on a Los Angeles Radio Station today that the Yankees are planning on offering Beltran 7 years/106 Million, while the Astros offer is at 6 years/95 Million. I don't know if that is old news or not, but I'm not sure how great it is that Beltran is meeting Steinbrener, while he doesn't even seem to want to talk with the Astros.

Well this LA radio station seems to have had the Astros offer pretty accurate as of Tuesday so I am assuming they've got the Yankees offer correct. With taxes it really is a crapshoot so its down to who Beltran wants to play for more. If it is Houston as he says it is, then he'll be ours.

Drayton has done his part and for that I thank him. If he goes somewhere else, at least I feel good that we really did something to try and keep him.

GranvilleWaders

12-23-2004, 10:05 AM

i feel good too... if we lose Beltran I will not doubt Mclane for one second... he is offering up some serious cash!

tim562

12-23-2004, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by Phillyrocket
29,019 as of this morning:eek:

16 per is more than fair hinging on overpaying. The fans have spoken and Drayton has stepped up to the plate, if Carlos won't take it then let him go.

Excatly, 6 years 96 million is very good money (not enough for Sprewell to feed his family though:D :D )

Beltrans agent has already taken too long and if he takes any longer, there will be no more free agents for us to sign.

Blatz

12-23-2004, 11:09 AM

790 just said that the Astros did not up their initial offer of 5 years 70 million

:confused:

plee

12-23-2004, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by Blatz
790 just said that the Astros did not up their initial offer of 5 years 70 million

:confused:

Smells like somebody (Boras) is trying to up the bidding...I hope we just don't fall into a money trap...aka Texas Rangers

Nick

12-23-2004, 11:24 AM

I don't think anybody knows the real astros offer... and that's just what Pupura, McLane, and maybe even Beltran want.

shawn786

12-23-2004, 11:29 AM

It would be GREAT if Beltran signed w/ the 'Stros Christmans Day! That would jsut be awsome BUT of course its wishfull thinking...

Fatty FatBastard

12-23-2004, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by Blatz
790 just said that the Astros did not up their initial offer of 5 years 70 million

:confused:

I'll trust the Chron over the new 79Q. Chron says offer is at least 6yrs/96 mil.

Blatz

12-23-2004, 11:52 AM

It was David Dalati who said it and he said the Astros said they didn't up their offer.

isoman2kx

12-23-2004, 11:52 AM

hmm if that's true..... that's one hell of a lot of money.....

I'm not sure you can up that offer much more without breaking the bank for Beltran.....

accept Beltran! :D

Fatty FatBastard

12-23-2004, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by Blatz
It was David Dalati who said it and he said the Astros said they didn't up their offer.

Again, something in print vs. a guy making $20K a year.

Gut says go with the chron.

Blatz

12-23-2004, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by Fatty FatBastard
Again, something in print vs. a guy making $20K a year.

Gut says go with the chron.

I wasn't trying to say one is more creditable than the other. I was just trying to clarify who it was that said it.

arkoe

12-23-2004, 01:09 PM

I had a dream last night that the Astros were getting SHELLED by the Reds 36-1 in the sixth. I don't know what this means for the Beltran race, but it wasn't pretty...

shawn786

12-23-2004, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by arkoe
I had a dream last night that the Astros were getting SHELLED by the Reds 36-1 in the sixth. I don't know what this means for the Beltran race, but it wasn't pretty...

This can mean only one of 2 things

#1. You can fortell the future & you should become some kinda sports god.

&

#2. Your thinkings about the 'Stros 24/7, kinda like me and alota other people in the thread are ;)

I dont know about your but ill pick option #2 :p

bigboymumu

12-23-2004, 02:00 PM

Beltran is a very good player but he is not worth the contract that is being reported in the media. Drayton, JUST SAY NO TO BORAS!

isoman2kx

12-23-2004, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by arkoe
I had a dream last night that the Astros were getting SHELLED by the Reds 36-1 in the sixth. I don't know what this means for the Beltran race, but it wasn't pretty...

offtopic

but had a dream where rodman was on our team

and no one knew he was until he grabbed his 3rd rebound of the game for the rockets......but he was in a bulls jersey

so take that for what it's worth :p

Rocket Fan

12-23-2004, 02:10 PM

The article says he broke down the tax differences between the two states etc..

does anyone have any idea how much money you would save wih the tax differences.. plus cost of living etc...

Is it reasonable to assume say a 90 mil contract in Houston is as valuable as a 100 mil contract in new york?

AggieRocket

12-23-2004, 02:32 PM

I am sure that I am in the minority, but I am hoping that Carlos Beltran turns down the 6 year $ 96 million deal and goes to NY. Carlos had one good postseason. That's it!! Last year, he batted .267 and had a career high 38 homers. I agree that he has a lot of upside. However, for a team like the Astros, $ 16 million a year is a lot to pay for "upside." We should invest that money towards plugging two or three holes on the team instead of putting it towards one guy.

NJRocket

12-23-2004, 02:39 PM

The 6/96mil sounds right...the NY POst had an article today about the Yanks-Beltran meeting and in it, Boras said something to the extent that he wasn't even listening to less than 7yrs/115 mil...so if thats the case, the Astros are really right there as far as per year salary goes.

Then again he said he was starting talks at 10/200 so who knows.

Nick

12-23-2004, 02:41 PM

Everybody who's proposing investing all that money in different players... name the guys you're thinking of, and the dollar figures you plan on talking with them.

If this team does not get Beltran, do not expect them to invest all that $16 million in somebody else... they'll get other players, but they're not going to go crazy.

This is a one-time splurge only for the name Carlos Beltran. Drayton loves him, major league baseball loves him, and the city loves him.

Even though he had "only one good playoffs"... do you realize that in a sport that's as random, and difficult, as baseball. "one playoffs" could make/break a career. This team had never seen any success at that stage, and he was doing things that NOBODY had ever done in post-season play.

Granted, it sucks that this is probably the only reason why he's going to get more money than players who might be better than him (Pujols, Guerrero)... but also, keep in mind that the Astros probably let him go if he doesn't have that magical postseason. They saw how much of a difference one guy can make... and on this team which sorely needs a fast CF, team-speed on the basepaths, and a lefty (switch hitter) at the plate... he's a perfect fit.

Jeff

12-23-2004, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by Rocket Fan
The article says he broke down the tax differences between the two states etc..

does anyone have any idea how much money you would save wih the tax differences.. plus cost of living etc...

Is it reasonable to assume say a 90 mil contract in Houston is as valuable as a 100 mil contract in new york?

I'm not sure about the tax issue, but the cost of living alone would make those numbers close. Last I saw, out of the 25 biggest cities in America, Houston ranked around 24th in cost of living expenses while New York was #2 behind San Francisco.

DVauthrin

12-23-2004, 03:00 PM

Originally posted by AggieRocket
I am sure that I am in the minority, but I am hoping that Carlos Beltran turns down the 6 year $ 96 million deal and goes to NY. Carlos had one good postseason. That's it!! Last year, he batted .267 and had a career high 38 homers. I agree that he has a lot of upside. However, for a team like the Astros, $ 16 million a year is a lot to pay for "upside." We should invest that money towards plugging two or three holes on the team instead of putting it towards one guy.

Upside? The man is a bonafide freaking star player. I'm going to say it again, if you use batting average to determine the primary value of a player, you are living in the stone age.

Here are Carlos Beltran's last 4 years OPS(OBP plus SLG=OPS)

2001: .876
2002: .841
2003: .911
2004: .915

Anything above .800 is a good hitter, and .900/1000=very good/great hitter. Now add in the gold glove defense, and the baserunning. You have a superstar talent playing in CF, who has remained relatively healthy over his career. He is not being paid on upside, the man is a franchise talent. And secondly, I've already proven multiple times with raises for Berkman and Oswalt included that the Astros can afford a salary of 15-16 mil a year for Beltran now and in the future.

I think this is hilarious. The Astros get a player that every team in major league baseball dreams of having, and are willing to pay him a reasonable amount to stay with the club, yet fans whine that it's too much money. Except every other offseason, it's those fans whining that the Astros aren't spending any money/McLane sucks. Drayton can't win period, apparently.

Getting an elite CF is something a lot of teams would kill for(it's rare), and the Astros are now in prime position to do just that, at a figure they can afford. This is a relative no brainer. You can tell when a player is "special" if you follow sports enough. Carlos Beltran is one of those players. He is the kind of player that has the ability to carry the club to a WS over his career, and that is everyone here's goal isn't it?

I applaud Drayton McClane for stepping up to the plate this offseason and handling Scott Boras on his terms, and showing the fanbase that he is serious about winning because Carlos Beltran is the player available that best allows the club to do just that.

It's just funny how he's damned if he does/damned if he doesn't.

MadMax

12-23-2004, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by DVauthrin

I think this is hilarious. The Astros get a player that every team in major league baseball dreams of having, and are willing to pay him a reasonable amount to stay with the club, yet fans whine that it's too much money. Except every other offseason, it's those fans whining that the Astros aren't spending any money/McLane sucks. Drayton can't win period, apparently.

.

mother falcon bingo!!!!! could not agree more!!! very, very well said.

RocketManJosh

12-23-2004, 03:36 PM

There is a new article on the Astros and Beltran on ESPN Insider ... Anyone have an account and care to give us the gist?

Nick

12-23-2004, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by RocketManJosh
There is a new article on the Astros and Beltran on ESPN Insider ... Anyone have an account and care to give us the gist?

It just re-hashes the chronicle article from today... which is really all that espn insider ever does.

Blatz

12-23-2004, 09:25 PM

McLane refutes published report (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/hou/news/hou_news.jsp?ymd=20041223&content_id=925536&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp)

Says dollar figure related to Beltran contract is too high
By Alyson Footer / MLB.com

HOUSTON -- Houston Astros owner Drayton McLane knows it is going to take a lot of money to sign Carlos Beltran, but he was as surprised as anyone on Thursday when he saw a published report that suggested he had made an offer to the free agent center fielder that nearly reached the $100 million threshhold.
McLane refuted the report that stated the Astros offered at least a six-year contract worth $96 million.

"We acknowleged that we made an offer, but in no way did we disclose [the numbers]," McLane said. "That [published] offer is a rather large offer. And it was not our offer. I don't know where that came from, but it is way beyond what our offers are."

McLane, general manager Tim Purpura and club president Tal Smith met with Beltran and his agent, Scott Boras, at the Astros' Spring Training complex in Kissimmee, Fla., on Wednesday. The meeting lasted approximately two hours, during which Beltran took a tour of the renovated Spring Training complex and spoke face-to-face with McLane for the first time since the 2004 season ended.

The Astros have until Jan. 8 to sign Beltran, but McLane hopes to come to an agreement with the center fielder before that deadline. If Beltran signs elsewhere, the Astros will have to turn to their backup plans, and with so many free agents already off the market, it may be difficult to find players to fill the void.

"We hoped a deal could have been made at the Winter Meetings," McLane said. "That's when Scott Boras did the A-Rod deal. We hoped for something by now. But they're still developing their plan and they told us they would get back to us next week.

"This is longer than any of us wanted, but certainly they're in control of the process. We're waiting for them to get back to us."

fya

12-23-2004, 10:18 PM

We're screwed.

Fegwu

12-24-2004, 12:44 AM

I am still hopeful.

Just say yes Beltran.

arkoe

12-24-2004, 01:42 AM

Originally posted by NJRocket
The 6/96mil sounds right...the NY POst had an article today about the Yanks-Beltran meeting and in it, Boras said something to the extent that he wasn't even listening to less than 7yrs/115 mil...so if thats the case, the Astros are really right there as far as per year salary goes.

Then again he said he was starting talks at 10/200 so who knows.

Boras is all smoke and mirrors. This was a hell of an offseason for Gerry the Hun to step down.

redgoose

12-24-2004, 03:37 AM

Boras is just trying to get us into a bidding war with ourselves. The exact same way he got Tom Hicks to outbid himself by 100 million dollars for A-Rod.

No real suprise Mclane isn't falling for it, since nobody else is even chasing Beltran anymore. ;)

tslee98

12-24-2004, 03:57 AM

i've been searching on my parents' slow dial-up looking for confirmation, but when i was at the men's club late tonight, the dj announced some rather bizarre news. he said that:

[1] carlos beltran is signing a 10-year deal with the astros tomorrow (the 24th).

[2] the astros are involved in a 3-team trade sending bagwell to arizona; the diamondbacks sending randy johnson to the yankees; and the yankees sending kevin brown to the astros.

both of these sound far-fetched, but the guy said that houston has a couple early christmas presents from the astros, and he seemed to be serious. again, no confirmation from any internet sources, even though i've searched.

weakfromtoday

12-24-2004, 04:15 AM

Originally posted by tslee98
i've been searching on my parents' slow dial-up looking for confirmation, but when i was at the men's club late tonight, the dj announced some rather bizarre news. he said that:

[1] carlos beltran is signing a 10-year deal with the astros tomorrow (the 24th).

[2] the astros are involved in a 3-team trade sending bagwell to arizona; the diamondbacks sending randy johnson to the yankees; and the yankees sending kevin brown to the astros.

both of these sound far-fetched, but the guy said that houston has a couple early christmas presents from the astros, and he seemed to be serious. again, no confirmation from any internet sources, even though i've searched.

Do you think Drayton would be quoted as saying,

"I kept a franchise player in Jeff Bagwell in Houston. Carlos is a franchise player, and we intend to keep him in Houston."

and then trade him as soon as Beltran signs?

adw

12-24-2004, 06:08 AM

Getting rid of Bags and getting Brown is not a christmas present imo,its a lump of coal.

NJRocket

12-24-2004, 09:18 AM

Then again, trading Bags would allow Lance to play 1B instead of running around the OF and get Lane is the lineup everyday...but it sounds a little far fetched

VooDooPope

12-24-2004, 09:29 AM

Originally posted by tslee98
i've been searching on my parents' slow dial-up looking for confirmation, but when i was at the men's club late tonight, the dj announced some rather bizarre news. he said that:

[1] carlos beltran is signing a 10-year deal with the astros tomorrow (the 24th).

[2] the astros are involved in a 3-team trade sending bagwell to arizona; the diamondbacks sending randy johnson to the yankees; and the yankees sending kevin brown to the astros.

both of these sound far-fetched, but the guy said that houston has a couple early christmas presents from the astros, and he seemed to be serious. again, no confirmation from any internet sources, even though i've searched.

This coming from a guy who introduces everyone by a fake name. Next on the center stage the lovely Jasmine Lexus Rose. ;) :p

plee

12-24-2004, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by tslee98
i've been searching on my parents' slow dial-up looking for confirmation, but when i was at the men's club late tonight, the dj announced some rather bizarre news. he said that:

[1] carlos beltran is signing a 10-year deal with the astros tomorrow (the 24th).

[2] the astros are involved in a 3-team trade sending bagwell to arizona; the diamondbacks sending randy johnson to the yankees; and the yankees sending kevin brown to the astros.

both of these sound far-fetched, but the guy said that houston has a couple early christmas presents from the astros, and he seemed to be serious. again, no confirmation from any internet sources, even though i've searched.

I would have taken a chance on W.Miller, than the proven always injured K.Brown. Now, being able to dump Bags. salary would be nice though....

Unless Uncle Drayton has been visiting some clubs lately :D, I doubt this would happen...

RocketsPimp

12-24-2004, 10:28 AM

Astros Make Offer To Beltran

http://www.click2houston.com/sports/4021982/detail.html

McLane, Boras Meet With Beltran In Florida

POSTED: 3:29 pm CST December 23, 2004
UPDATED: 3:34 pm CST December 23, 2004

HOUSTON -- Astros owner Drayton McLane got an early Christmas present Wednesday -- a face-to-face meeting with Carlos Beltran.

Associated Press

The free agent center fielder and his agent, Scott Boras, met with McLane and Astros general manager Tim Purpura at the team's spring training base in Kissimmee, Fla.

The meeting came one day after the New York Yankees spent 2½ hours with Beltran in Tampa.

According to Local 2, the Astros made Beltran an offer, and sources said it was for six years at just over $80 million.

The Astros have until Jan. 8 to sign Beltran, who on Dec. 19 rejected the club's offer for arbitration. After Jan. 8, the Astros cannot sign Beltran until May 1, which would effectively end their chances to sign the center fielder to a long-term contract. Because of the Jan. 8 deadline, Beltran will likely make his decision by that date, even if he decides to sign somewhere other than Houston.

Gene the PIG

12-24-2004, 11:33 AM

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/10490683.htm?1c

Posted on Fri, Dec. 24, 2004

Yankees, Astros in a tough fight over Beltran

By SAM BORDEN

New York Daily News

NEW YORK - After touring the Florida homes of the Yankees and Astros this week, Carlos Beltran returned to his own house in Puerto Rico with an upgraded offer from Houston in his pocket, reportedly a six-year deal worth as much as $16 million a season.

And that's only the beginning.

The Astros are intent on doing everything they can to keep Beltran, and while Houston owner Drayton McLane denied to MLB.com the Astros had made that big of an offer, GM Tim Purpura told the New York Daily News on Thursday that regardless of the current offer, Houston has not yet reached its financial ceiling.

"There's always ranges in these things," Purpura said. "We negotiate close to our range, but there is always room to keep going. You're not going to put out one or two offers and that's it. You have to get some feedback from the agent, talk about the parameters, see what else can be done to alter an offer if you have to do that."

Beltran is the Bombers' top priority among position players this winter, but McLane is determined to fight hard to keep the 28-year-old switch-hitter in Houston.

Purpura hesitated to rank Houston's offseason priorities, but placed Beltran at the top along with bringing back Roger Clemens and locking up Lance Berkman.

Along those lines, the Astros are pushing for a quick resolution on Beltran, though that seems unlikely. Scott Boras, Beltran's agent, is known for dragging negotiations out, but the last day the Astros are allowed to negotiate with the center fielder is Jan. 8, and he's expected to make a decision just before then.

"I expect some resolution with us in the next two weeks," Purpura said, noting that it will take a few days to actually hammer out the language on any deal of such magnitude.

McLane's presentation to Beltran on Wednesday in Kissimmee included a highlight video, letters from several of the city's civic leaders and a book laying out the benefits of living in Houston, according to the Houston Chronicle.

At Beltran's meeting with the Yankees a day earlier, George Steinbrenner chatted with the outfielder and Boras at the Boss' Legends Field offices, but no official offers were exchanged. GM Brian Cashman, who was also on hand, described the sit-down as a "meet and greet" that allowed Steinbrenner a chance to get to know Beltran better.

The general consensus in baseball is that Steinbrenner will do whatever it takes to get Beltran, and there's certainly no doubt that, in the end, the Yankees will be able to outbid the Astros.

But friends of Beltran have said throughout the winter that he would prefer to play in a less-explosive city - i.e. not New York - and might even take less to do so. It's also worth noting - and McLane did in his presentation - that there's no state income tax in Texas.

That sentiment is exactly what the Astros are counting on.

"The thing that we offer that the Yankees don't is an environment that Carlos is knowledgeable of and comfortable with," Purpura said. "We also offer something that no one else can offer and that's that he was in a successful, winning situation with us for the first time in his career.

"The question is, what's the value of goodwill?"

Both the Yanks and Astros (and Mets and Cubs and Tigers, who are all expected to be involved in the chase) view Beltran as a franchise player, the kind of star who can be the cornerstone of a team for five, six, even seven seasons or more.

McLane, in particular, is attached to Beltran and would like him - along with Berkman - to take the reins of the organization from Jeff Bagwell and Craig Biggio.

"But even with those thoughts, Drayton still has an end point, a choke point where we'll have to walk away if (the money) exceeds a certain level," Purpura said.

If that happens, figure on the Yankees being the one team left standing.

Blatz

12-24-2004, 11:47 AM

Thanks Gene the PIG for posting that. I was about to register for another paper so I could read that article.

Gene the PIG

12-24-2004, 02:25 PM

You're oh so welcome, Blatz.

Merry Christmas to you & your kin.

Mr. Mooch

12-24-2004, 06:11 PM

Man I really want him to stay but you've got to think about it like this if you're Beltran:

He is going to be the highest paid Astro ever, as well as the most sought after. How will this effect McLane in the near future when Bagwell and Biggio retire and if the farm system doesn't produce high-quality talent?

So Houston gets Beltran -- then what? If Josh Beckett wins 20 next year and is a free agent (don't know that he is; just using him as an example), will McLane open up his huge wallet again for him? Actually with Beckett I'm sure there could be a Pettitte-style 'hometown discount' but that's beside the point.

McLane won't sign high priced free agents every year and won't trade for them either; there's a maximum threshold that McLane (or even perhaps Fertita) will have in high-priced players.

In New York, that's never the case; there isn't such a thing as a budget in the Yankees organization (at least as long as Steinbrenner is owner).

Basically what I'm saying is if Beltran wants consistent winning with an annual chance at the World Series than he would be stupid not going to the Yankees. I hope he understands this because in a few years when Houston is in a 'rebuilding' stage he might very well want to be traded.

And knowing how dreadful this year's Rockets are doing, I don't see anything preventing the Astros from having (or at least starting off) poorly. They had an amazing run last year, but with the same key players from the first 2/3 of the year, I hope they don't play terribly.

The difference is Garner and I'm interested to see how he will regain a winning momentum at the beginning of the upcoming season.

Of course none of this can happen without Beltran.

Baqui99

12-24-2004, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by tslee98
i've been searching on my parents' slow dial-up looking for confirmation, but when i was at the men's club late tonight, the dj announced some rather bizarre news. he said that:

[1] carlos beltran is signing a 10-year deal with the astros tomorrow (the 24th).

[2] the astros are involved in a 3-team trade sending bagwell to arizona; the diamondbacks sending randy johnson to the yankees; and the yankees sending kevin brown to the astros.

both of these sound far-fetched, but the guy said that houston has a couple early christmas presents from the astros, and he seemed to be serious. again, no confirmation from any internet sources, even though i've searched.

The Men's Club...that's an excellent source for inside scoop on the Astros. :D

Uprising

12-25-2004, 04:40 AM

I hope this guy stays here. Man, that would be so awesome.

Rockets are damn disapointing this season, and It makes me that more excited about the next Astros season. Hopefully the two big pieces to this offseason puzzle fit into place.

Another Brother

12-25-2004, 10:32 AM

Ken ROSENTHAL from ESPN thinks Carlos will sign with the Yankess next week. 12/25

leroy420

12-25-2004, 10:35 AM

Here's what's amazing to me. All of these "experts" (Gammons, Olney, Ken Rosenthal, Starks, etc.) keep saying that they think Beltran is going to sign with the Yanks. What makes them so positive about it? Beltran has given no indication that he is leaning one way or the other. Their only reasoning is that Georgie never loses a player he wants. So what? Maybe Beltran doesn't want to play in New York. Maybe the fact that he and his wife love Houston is enough. Maybe he wants to know that he is the man and that he wouldn't be in pinstripes. These guys are simply giving their opinions based on past history. It hasn't been that great in the past couple of years for Georgie. He missed out on quite a few players the last few years. Isn't it possible that people inside baseball don't like what the Yankees have done for the game?

Groogrux

12-25-2004, 10:54 AM

Does Gammons think that? I've always heard him say he was going to sign with the Astros.

I don't care about these pundits opinions, honestly. We weren't even mentioned as a possibility for Randy Johnson before the trade went down.

Nick

12-25-2004, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by leroy420
Here's what's amazing to me. All of these "experts" (Gammons, Olney, Ken Rosenthal, Starks, etc.) keep saying that they think Beltran is going to sign with the Yanks. What makes them so positive about it? Beltran has given no indication that he is leaning one way or the other. Their only reasoning is that Georgie never loses a player he wants. So what? Maybe Beltran doesn't want to play in New York. Maybe the fact that he and his wife love Houston is enough. Maybe he wants to know that he is the man and that he wouldn't be in pinstripes. These guys are simply giving their opinions based on past history. It hasn't been that great in the past couple of years for Georgie. He missed out on quite a few players the last few years. Isn't it possible that people inside baseball don't like what the Yankees have done for the game?

Totally agree.... although the Yankees did lose Pettite to the Astros last year, and big Stein did want him.

Maybe the situations will work in reverse this year.... last year, the Yankees were focused on upgrading their everyday roster (A-Rod) and not their pitching, and lost Pettite... this year, the Yanks should be focused on their pitching and not their everyday lineup, and it could cost them Beltran.

Bottom line... if both the Yankees and Beltran were gaga over each other, their deal would be all but done by now... It is simply going to come down to where he's the most happy.

Groogrux

12-25-2004, 11:29 AM

Blatz

12-26-2004, 05:43 AM

Beltran meets with Yankees; Mets are next (http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/10501014.htm?1c)

BY ADAM RUBIN
New York Daily News

NEW YORK - (KRT) - Carlos Beltran came away from Tuesday's meeting with Yankees brass impressed with owner George Steinbrenner, and plans to meet with the Mets shortly. The race to sign the free agent center fielder is heating up - since the Astros must either sign him by Jan. 8 or lose negotiating rights with Beltran until May, he is likely to have a new home within the next two weeks.

"The meeting with Steinbrenner was very good," Beltran told Primera Hora, a newspaper in Puerto Rico. "He is a professional person, super-educated. . . . The Yankees have shown that they are champions and the owner is going to do everything possible to win," Beltran said through a translation.

Beltran acknowledged interest from the Astros, Yankees, Mets and Cubs, but said offers have not yet been exchanged during meetings with teams. Last week, Houston brass denied reports it had made a six-year, $96 million offer.

The Mets began their pursuit late, "but they entered and they are being aggressive," Beltran said. "To this point, they have not made an offer. I believe that we will have a meeting very soon."

Beltran indicated he would not be intimidated by the prospect of playing in New York.

"I always say that when one does things well, one is going to be blessed," Beltran said. "In all the places, when you do something good, the people applaud you. When you do something bad, they boo you. That happens in all the big-league parks."

Beltran earned plenty of cheers in Houston, where he slugged 23 homers in 90 games after being traded from Kansas City and eight more in the playoffs.

"As a ballplayer, I want to be treated based on what I have done in my career," Beltran said. "Of course, the opportunity to win is bigger than the economic thing. I want to be part of a winning team."

Uprising

12-26-2004, 07:21 AM

Beltran, the people of Houston want you. Just remember the excitement that filled the park this past season.

http://images.chron.com/content/news/photos/04/12/26/snow_front.jpg

ESPN Rumor Central: Astros up ante for Beltran

i don't have insider so I can't post the article.

Fegwu

12-26-2004, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by Blatz
Beltran meets with Yankees; Mets are next (http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/10501014.htm?1c)

Now this has Boras and his manipulation schemes written all over it. :rolleyes:

Beltran knows he does not want to play the freaking Metz but Boras just wants to "run the show" and squeez out a few more millions and perks from either the Yankees or Stros (the alleged favorites). I know the Metz GM is a fellow Pueto Rican but common...

MadMax

12-27-2004, 08:09 AM

Not good.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/2966052

Beltran impressed by Steinbrenner, Yanks
Associated Press

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico — Carlos Beltran was impressed by George Steinbrenner after meeting with the Yankees owner earlier in the week, and told a newspaper in Puerto Rico that he would not be intimidated by playing in New York.

The free-agent All-Star center fielder who led the Houston Astros within one win of their first World Series, talked with Steinbrenner in Tampa, Fla., on Tuesday.

"The meeting with Steinbrenner was very good," Beltran said in a story published in Friday's edition of Primera Hora newspaper. "He is a professional person, super-educated. I've let them know my interest, and they have interest, too, about me joining their team."

The Yankees — and Astros — clearly will have some competition in the race for the prized outfielder. Beltran said the New York Mets, Detroit Tigers and Chicago Cubs have also shown interest.

"The Mets have been very aggressive," he said. "So far, they haven't made any offers. I think we'll have a meeting very soon to talk personally."

No meeting with the Mets is scheduled, but will probably take place the week of Jan. 23.

Beltran thinks he would be prepared to play in a high-profile baseball environment, such as New York.

"In all the places, when you do something good, the people applaud you. When you do something bad, they boo you," he said. "That happens in all the big league parks."

The All-Star outfielder batted .417 in the NL championship series for the Astros with four home runs, five RBIs and four steals after hitting .455 with four homers and nine RBIs in the division series. If Houston doesn't reach an agreement by Jan. 8, the Astros would be ineligible to re-sign him until May 1.

"As a baseball player, I want to be treated fairly — based on what I've done in my career," Beltran said. "Of course, the opportunity to win is bigger than the economic thing. I want to be part of a winning team. I will consider every team."

Nick

12-27-2004, 08:14 AM

Its one thing when a NY newspaper reports stuff as "news"... but when the national media has to refer to a Puerto Rico newspaper to find out how Beltran "really" feels... it tends to worry me even less.

The way he phrased the answers, you can tell he was actually asked to state his views about the Yankees.... he didn't volunteer them without prompt.

Also, Boras has had to have told him that the Yankees are yet to make an offer... try to say something nice about them so that they'll do that, and then we'll get your Astros to counter.... I said make money money, make money money money....

MadMax

12-27-2004, 08:16 AM

Nick..I love the optimism. But this is not good news.

Jebus

12-27-2004, 08:16 AM

Originally posted by MadMax
Not good.

No meeting with the Mets is scheduled, but will probably take place the week of Jan. 23.

So the Mets will only really enter the picture if he doesn't sign with the Astros..

RocketsPimp

12-27-2004, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by Nick
Bottom line... if both the Yankees and Beltran were gaga over each other, their deal would be all but done by now... It is simply going to come down to where he's the most happy.

Beltran and his agent aren't going to jump the gun on anything. They will hear all offers first before deciding on anything. Don't count on a 27 year old player in the prime of his career staying where he is "most happy" over multimillions of dollars.

Surfguy

12-27-2004, 10:52 AM

I think the lure of playing in NY with the Yankees is too much for Beltran to resist.

I don't think we sign Beltran. Therefore, Clemens will definitely retire.

In conclusion, the Astros are screwed and go back to mediocrity for years to come. Bah hum bug and crappy new year....yada yada yada... .

MadMax

12-27-2004, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by RocketsPimp
Don't count on a 27 year old player in the prime of his career staying where he is "most happy" over multimillions of dollars.

non-starter. he'll be a multi-millionaire wherever he goes.

DVauthrin

12-27-2004, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by MadMax
Nick..I love the optimism. But this is not good news.

Actually, it's outstanding news. Just read between the lines. McClane has specifically said we are keeping things quiet out of respect for Carlos/Boras(and to that point Carlos hadn't said anything since the end of the season) in a number of articles this offseason. Now you have the Yankees and the Mets getting rave reviews from Carlos six days after his meeting in New York. Six freaking days. And to make things better, neither team has made an offer as of December 26, less than 2 weeks from January 8th.

This is a Scott Boras special. I can see it now:

Scott: Hey Carlos, I know you have decided on Houston, but I want to try and get some more money for you, err, me.

Carlos: Yes. What do you have in mind?

Scott: You know that whole keep things quiet concept we have employed during negotiations?

Carlos: Yes.

Scott: Forget it. It's less than two weeks from January 8th and the Astros have made the only serious offer. I know that is where you want to play and all, but right now I have no way to get Drayton to up his price. I need you to tell the local press in Puerto Rico how great your meeting with the Yankees was, and also for kicks, say that the Mets really want you too. We know they aren't really in the picture, but doesn't mean you can't use them to your advantage.

Carlos: Ok.

Subsequent article comes out six days after the meeting.

RocketsPimp

12-27-2004, 02:01 PM

Isn't Houston the only team obligated to sign him by 1/8/05??

All the Yankees, Mets or whoever have to do is make an offer right on or before that date to hold things up.

Sorry, but that sounds like bad news to me.

MadMax

12-27-2004, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by RocketsPimp
Isn't Houston the only team obligated to sign him by 1/8/05??

All the Yankees, Mets or whoever

Sorry, but that sounds like bad news to me.

sadly...me, too.

on a better note...i did get a kick ass Astros hoodie for Christmas! :)

DVauthrin

12-27-2004, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by RocketsPimp
Isn't Houston the only team obligated to sign him by 1/8/05??

All the Yankees, Mets or whoever

Sorry, but that sounds like bad news to me.

If Scott Boras lets Carlos Beltran sign after January 8th(with allowing the NY teams to bring their first offers in on January 9th), you will see backlash in the form of his clients dropping him like a hotcake and teams refusing to negotiate with him ever again. This crap is just Boras trying to suck some more money out of the Astros.

Do you think it's some coincidence that SIX days after the meeting with George that somehow Carlos comes out and says he would be fine playing in New York, and both teams are interested, but gee, they don't have offers on the table less than two weeks from the 8th. Even though he had nothing to say after the Astros meeting and Drayton has repeatedly said that it is Carlos/Boras's wish to keep things quiet. Why would the gameplan change now? Oh wait, that's because without offers from the Mets/Yankees Scott needs Carlos to say that he would play in New York to get him any leverage for a better contract from Houston. Except that on numerous occasions there have been articles pointing out that teammates of Carlos believe he has no interest playing in the big apple, and wants some privacy in any city he chooses(NY doesn't offer that).

So what is more likely here:

A) Beltran talks about the meeting with New York not the day after, but SIX days after, going against what Drayton McClane said Carlos/Boras had asked the organization to do on multiple occasions. Even though, Beltran had nothing to say after any point of the Houston negotiations. The Yankees and Mets will be allowed to first offer after January 8th, the last day Houston can sign Carlos.

B) Scott Boras sees that he currently has one offer for his client less than two weeks from the January 8th deadline and thus has no leverage to get him more money out of that one offer. So he instructs Carlos after the Yankee meeting to tell the press that he would love to play in New York hoping that will cause Houston to panic and up the offer. Which is why it took six days until the article went to press. Even though every other article/source connected to Beltran outside of the NY press has him not interested in New York as a city. The Yankees/Mets either are not that interested or will offer by Jan 8th.

I'm fairly confident it's option B. The Boras/Beltran regime would not change their gameplan this late in negotiations unless they were lacking leverage, which guess what, they are. They have one offer on the table, and the other club they met with hasn't offered about a week after meeting with Boras. I know Scott is a scumbag, but even he wouldn't allow any interested teams outside of Houston to wait until the 9th to offer, unless his client told him he either wants to stay an Astro or give them until the 8th to make a offer he wants and considering the numbers reported I'd vote for the former. If he did that, the backlash would be fierce and Boras would never be able to walk into most management rooms again as teams would just say screw you.

msn

12-27-2004, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by DVauthrin
Actually, it's outstanding news. Just read between the lines. McClane has specifically said we are keeping things quiet out of respect for Carlos/Boras(and to that point Carlos hadn't said anything since the end of the season) in a number of articles this offseason. Now you have the Yankees and the Mets getting rave reviews from Carlos six days after his meeting in New York. Six freaking days. And to make things better, neither team has made an offer as of December 26, less than 2 weeks from January 8th.

This is a Scott Boras special. I can see it now:

Scott: Hey Carlos, I know you have decided on Houston, but I want to try and get some more money for you, err, me.

Carlos: Yes. What do you have in mind?

Scott: You know that whole keep things quiet concept we have employed during negotiations?

Carlos: Yes.

Scott: Forget it. It's less than two weeks from January 8th and the Astros have made the only serious offer. I know that is where you want to play and all, but right now I have no way to get Drayton to up his price. I need you to tell the local press in Puerto Rico how great your meeting with the Yankees was, and also for kicks, say that the Mets really want you too. We know they aren't really in the picture, but doesn't mean you can't use them to your advantage.

Carlos: Ok.

Subsequent article comes out six days after the meeting.
I hope you are right, but this is quite a stretch IMO.

DVauthrin

12-27-2004, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by msn
I hope you are right, but this is quite a stretch IMO.

I do think there is a very good chance this happened. The article with Beltran's comments came out six days after the meeting. Now either the press in the PR couldn't find Beltran over that time, or Carlos just randomly decided to talk about the meeting on his own without Boras's guidance. Except that, Boras is the one running this show, and Carlos has to run most everything through him. Heck, there wasn't even any comment from Carlos the day of the New York meeting. And when you look at the articles about Carlos's meetings with Houston, you don't see any comments from Beltran about them. Furthermore, Drayton McClane has said all along that the organization was keeping things quiet on the behalf of the Carlos/Boras.

So what do you think happened? Carlos just decided what the hell, I'll talk about the yankee meeting even though that goes against the entire offseason strategy my agent has planned out. Or, in between the day of the meeting and yesterday, Carlos got
"permission" to talk to the local press about the meeting. Yet, that same permission wasn't there for any meetings with Houston or even a response the day of the meeting with the Yankees. So why would Beltran talk now(less than two weeks from the 8th)? It's called leverage. There is one team who has made a serious offer for his services this offseason and it's the Houston Astros. As of now, neither New York team has made Carlos an offer. The only leverage Boras has is the January 8th deadline, but he would lose clients and the ability to negotiate with a vast majority of MLB teams if he pulled a stunt like that with the premier free agent on the market.

The Yankees have had almost a week since the original meeting with Boras and no offer has been made(it's almost January too). What does that tell you? You think it really takes a week for George to draw up a proposal to somebody he wants, especially tthis late in the offseason? And then there is the little matter of numerous reports saying that Carlos covets privacy and has told teammates he doesn't like New York, which has gone on since midseason.

Lastly, as far as the Mets are concerned, it's been at least a week since they were reported interested in Beltran, yet they haven't met with him/Boras at all, nor made an offer. Yes, last week was the Christmas holiday but they have had time to get a meeting/offer done, and yet the process hasn't even gotten started, less than two weeks from January 8th.

The point is something isn't right with Carlos speaking out now, and I don't think it has to do with genuine interest in the Yankees because it goes against everything that has been said/done concerning the whole negotiating process.

MadMax

12-27-2004, 03:07 PM

DVauth -- entirely possible that George said, "let me know what the Astros final offer is, and I'll beat it...so I'm not making you a formal offer right now...not yet."

DVauthrin

12-27-2004, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by MadMax
DVauth -- entirely possible that George said, "let me know what the Astros final offer is, and I'll beat it...so I'm not making you a formal offer right now...not yet."

Ok, it's possible. Except it's highly, highly unlikely. Boras is trying to get leverage for his client, and out of the blue six days after meeting with the Yankees, Beltran suddenly starts spouting off how great George is and how he would be willing to play for either New York team. Not the day of the meeting, but six days after mind you. And in those six days the Yankees or Mets had not made "official" offers. I mean what you are suggesting is that Beltran spoke to get Houston to up it's bid only so George would pay more. Except that would be one of the dumbest strategies ever by Boras. If what you are suggesting is the case, then George would be pissed Beltran came to media six days after the meeting. He wouldn't want to pay more than he has to or else he'd just offer the 10 year/200 million dollar contract in the meeting and get it over with then. Therefore, Beltran has no reason to go to the press and while Boras wants more money, he wouldn't undermine the Boss to do it.

The only reason Beltran goes to the press this late in negotiations and days after meeting with the Yankees is to try and bluff the Astros into offering more money, and it's not because George will beat it since he would want Carlos to keep it hush/hush so he didn't have to spend as much. And if he was willing to beat any offer, he'd just offer the 10 for 200 deal and get it over with. It's not like he can't afford it.

Anyway you slice it going to the press by Beltran is not helping George in this situation, and thus it makes your premise highly unlikely.

DVauthrin

12-27-2004, 03:57 PM

Excuse me, it was actually 3 days, as this article ran Friday in PR, but still that doesn't change the situation at all.

arkoe

12-27-2004, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by msn
I hope you are right, but this is quite a stretch IMO.

It's not a stretch at all. Boras is notorious for being one of the sneakiest agent in baseball. He would love to trick McClane into bidding against himself.

msn

12-27-2004, 04:11 PM

What about the fact that McLane has indeed commented, albeit not specifically, on the negotiations subsequent to their meeting? He commented on their chances, and he very specifically denied the 6/16 offer that was reported by the ridiculous Chronicle.

Secondly, you say it's possible Steinbrenner is simply waiting to beat Houston's highest offer, but "highly unlikely." But you don't offer any tangible reasons why it's highly unlikely (or I missed them). Why isn't it likely? The question concerns Steinbrenner's motivations, not Boras's, and such a tactic would satisfy the need to bid higher without paying 10/20.

DVauthrin

12-27-2004, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by msn
What about the fact that McLane has indeed commented, albeit not specifically, on the negotiations subsequent to their meeting? He commented on their chances, and he very specifically denied the 6/16 offer that was reported by the ridiculous Chronicle.

Secondly, you say it's possible Steinbrenner is simply waiting to beat Houston's highest offer, but "highly unlikely." But you don't offer any tangible reasons why it's highly unlikely (or I missed them). Why isn't it likely? The question concerns Steinbrenner's motivations, not Boras's, and such a tactic would satisfy the need to bid higher without paying 10/20.

I explained it above, but i'll do it again here. Sure George could tell Carlos that he will beat or at least match any offer Houston made. However, as a businessman, why would he want Carlos Beltran days after divulging that information to talk to the press about the interest from the Yankees. That only serves to scare the crap out of Houston, and thus drive the price for Carlos up, which George would have pay. Why would George want to pay more money than he would have to if Carlos just kept quiet. It's not in his best interests. This isn't like Carlos was gushing about NY at the meeting, this was reported days after the meeting. That would be different.

And since this is the first time Carlos Beltran has spoken since the end of the season about offseason negotiations, I'd say there is a driving force behind it. Keep in mind, the Astros have said numerous times they are keeping things quiet at the request of Beltran/Boras. These comments from Beltran go against that idea entirely. Now, who is the driving force? It's more than likely Boras. And Scott Boras is not dumb enough to try to play games with George Steinbrenner in the press. Taking that into consideration, why would Beltran talk if George had promised him he would outbid the Astros. It makes no sense as that would anger George as Beltran tries to generate better offers from Houston.

As far as the 10/200 point is concerned, is if George isn't concerned about the money he would spend on Beltran, he would have just offered it then and there and Beltran would have jumped all over it. It's not like George can't afford it. But he didn't, thus he is concerned about the money he would pay Beltran. Therefore he definitely doesn't want to see Carlos talking to the press days after the meeting saying I can play in New York, etc, as that is primarily designed to make the Astros up their bid. If it really was about being impressed by the meeting, you would have seen Beltran's quotes the day of said meeting.

That is why the scenario max proposed is highly unlikely. It's far more likely Boras is trying to do anything he can before the 8th to get the Astros to pour extra dollars into their bid.

DVauthrin

12-27-2004, 05:45 PM

And as far as McClane talking about the Beltran negotiations goes, Drayton has never come out and said anything about the teams offer. In fact, he has never confirmed any specific offer at all. That is called keeping quiet when it comes to negotiations.

leroy420

12-27-2004, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by DVauthrin
I explained it above, but i'll do it again here. Sure George could tell Carlos that he will beat or at least match any offer Houston made. However, as a businessman, why would he want Carlos Beltran days after divulging that information to talk to the press about the interest from the Yankees. That only serves to scare the crap out of Houston, and thus drive the price for Carlos up, which George would have pay. Why would George want to pay more money than he would have to if Carlos just kept quiet. It's not in his best interests. This isn't like Carlos was gushing about NY at the meeting, this was reported days after the meeting. That would be different.

And since this is the first time Carlos Beltran has spoken since the end of the season about offseason negotiations, I'd say there is a driving force behind it. Keep in mind, the Astros have said numerous times they are keeping things quiet at the request of Beltran/Boras. These comments from Beltran go against that idea entirely. Now, who is the driving force? It's more than likely Boras. And Scott Boras is not dumb enough to try to play games with George Steinbrenner in the press. Taking that into consideration, why would Beltran talk if George had promised him he would outbid the Astros. It makes no sense as that would anger George as Beltran tries to generate better offers from Houston.

As far as the 10/200 point is concerned, is if George isn't concerned about the money he would spend on Beltran, he would have just offered it then and there and Beltran would have jumped all over it. It's not like George can't afford it. But he didn't, thus he is concerned about the money he would pay Beltran. Therefore he definitely doesn't want to see Carlos talking to the press days after the meeting saying I can play in New York, etc, as that is primarily designed to make the Astros up their bid. If it really was about being impressed by the meeting, you would have seen Beltran's quotes the day of said meeting.

That is why the scenario max proposed is highly unlikely. It's far more likely Boras is trying to do anything he can before the 8th to get the Astros to pour extra dollars into their bid.

George didn't get into this position by simply giving people everything they want. Why would he pay 20 mil per year if he didn't have to? He and every other gm in this little battle royal for Beltran are playing the game just as much as Boras is.

Castor27

12-27-2004, 09:22 PM

Originally posted by leroy420
George didn't get into this position by simply giving people everything they want. Why would he pay 20 mil per year if he didn't have to?
That is the point DV is trying to make. If George wasn't concerned with the money then he would have paid the 10/200. But he didn't so therfor ehe is concerned. That said if he told them he'd beat any Houston offer, then the strategy of playing up New York bites Steinbrenner. If the motivation behind playing up NY is to get Houston to offer more then it would also force Steinbrenner to ultimately have to offer more to beat Houston.

On a second note, do agents have to reveal offers from other teams? Probably not. If Boras had a deal with the Yanks to beat any other offers then he just has to go to him and say "look Houston offered 7 years at 16 million, now beat that". There wouldn't be any need to use the media to drive up the price from other teams. If the Yankees were just going to beat whatever other offers you got, then just make up an offer of what you want and let them give you more.

DVauthrin

12-27-2004, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by leroy420
George didn't get into this position by simply giving people everything they want. Why would he pay 20 mil per year if he didn't have to? He and every other gm in this little battle royal for Beltran are playing the game just as much as Boras is.

Thank you for repeating what I said.

I thought I made this clear. The scenario max created makes absolutely no sense because George wouldn't want Carlos Beltran to say a damn thing to the press. If he had told him he would go beyond every offer the Astros make, then I highly doubt he wants Beltran talking up the interest in New York knowing full well that the only purpose it serves is to increase the Astros bid, and thus the number George has to pay.

Point being: if George didn't care about the price on Beltran he would have just offered the 10/200 contract that would automatically sign Beltran because it's not like he doesn't have the resources. However, he doesn't want to do that which I made clear, therefore, Carlos Beltran talking to the press does nothing but hurt him in max's scenario. It would have been in his best interest for Beltran to just keep quiet.

The most logical scenario here(based on sources here, the fact there have been no reported offers from either NY team) is that Boras wants to scare the Astros into increasing their offer to Beltran, or that Carlos all of a sudden had one heck of a mental lapse that goes against his/Boras's entire negotiating strategy.

I think odds are heavily in favor of this being the former, as Boras and his clients are not known for screwing up negotiations since the man is the premier agent in the game.

rocketlaunch

12-27-2004, 09:45 PM

fox news just said they have found out what has really been offered.

It is still a 5 year 70 mil deal

with a 14 mil dollar option for a 6th

if we do not pick it up we pay him 5 mil

so the deal is actually 5 year 75 mil

could be 6 at 84

RocketManJosh

12-27-2004, 09:58 PM

Originally posted by rocketlaunch
fox news just said they have found out what has really been offered.

I heard that as well ... I just don't know if that is going to be enough ... I'm hoping they can give him about the same yearly salary, but add a year or two to the contract. I think he's worth the risk, and yes, I understand giving anyone a 7-8 year deal is a huge risk.

rocketlaunch

12-27-2004, 10:18 PM

12/27/2004 9:55 PM ET
Report: Offer to Beltran revised
By Jim Molony / MLB.com

HOUSTON -- The Astros have revised their contract offer to free agent Carlos Beltran, a Houston television station reported on Monday night. KRIV-TV, citing Major League Baseball sources, reported that the Astros have added an option year to their original offer of $70 million over five years to Beltran. According to KRIV, the sixth year would be worth $14 million to Beltran or a buyout of $5 million if the Astros do not pick up the option.
The Astros made their initial offer on Dec. 6, and revised the offer during a face-to-face meeting with Beltran and his agent, Scott Boras, on Dec. 22 at Houston's Spring Training facility in Kissimmee, Fla. A day earlier, Beltran and Boras met with New York Yankees owner George Steinbrenner, president Randy Levine and general manager Brian Cashman in Tampa.

Astros GM Tim Purpura's policy is not to comment on offers or reported offers. The club did confirm offers to Beltran at a news conference last week, but did not give details. Astros owner Drayton McLane Jr. would not give specifics either, although in an interview with MLB.com he did confirm a newspaper report claiming the Astros had upped the offer to $96 million was incorrect.

The Astros have until Jan. 8 to re-sign Beltran. After that, they must cease negotiations with the 27-year-old until May 1, which would essentially end Beltran's stay with Houston.

The switch-hitting center fielder hit .267 with 38 homers, 104 RBIs and 42 stolen bases for Kansas City and Houston in 2004. He also made the All-Star team and turned in one of the finest postseason performances in history, hitting .435 with eight homers and 14 RBIs in 12 games.

In addition to the Astros and Yankees, the Mets, Cubs and Tigers are interested in Beltran.

JibbaJabba

12-28-2004, 01:26 AM

Link (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/2967586)

Dec. 28, 2004, 1:05AM
Mets enter Beltran picture
New York's GM to meet with star next week; Astros want resolution sooner than that
By JOSE DE JESUS ORTIZ
Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle

Mets general manager Omar Minaya, the man who discovered Sammy Sosa and Juan Gonzalez, is about to make his move on All-Star free agent Carlos Beltran.

While the Astros and Yankees have been at the center of the Beltran talks this winter, the Mets have quietly set up their game plan.

Minaya has done his homework on the center fielder, spending part of Christmas Eve collecting an extensive scouting report on Beltran, according to a person with intimate knowledge of the situation.

Minaya was unavailable for comment, but an industry source confirmed that the Mets are in the process of setting up a meeting with Beltran and his agent, Scott Boras, for early next week. The Chicago Cubs and Detroit Tigers also remain in the hunt for Beltran, who is no longer listening to teams not willing to offer at least a seven-year deal.

"If there's going to be one or two more teams (competing for Beltran), bring them on," Astros owner Drayton McLane said via telephone from Birmingham, Ala.

Nevertheless, it is clear that the Astros are starting to get nervous about the possibility of being left without Beltran.

Beltran — whose price already has eclipsed the six-year, $96 million mark — met with Yankees owner George Steinbrenner a week ago in Tampa, Fla. He talked with McLane, general manager Tim Purpura and president of baseball operations Tal Smith last Wednesday in Kissimmee, Fla.

The Astros made what they described as a very substantial offer. The parties agreed to take the Christmas holiday off from negotiations.

Although the Astros have until Jan. 8 to re-sign Beltran or lose negotiating rights until May, McLane expects things to clear up this week.

"We told him we certainly needed an answer by the latter part of this week," McLane said.

Moreover, McLane says the Astros have received assurances that the Beltran situation will be cleared up before Jan. 8.

"Scott told Tim and Tal that it would not go to that Jan. 8 deadline," McLane said.

Since failing to re-sign slugging second baseman Jeff Kent, who rejected a one-year, $7 million contract offer with a $7 million option for 2006 on Dec. 7, the Astros essentially have focused on Beltran.

They have lost out on some of the outfielders they targeted in free agency and the trade market. "We don't want to be left out in the cold if we can't get Beltran," McLane said. "Moises Alou has moved on. Steve Finley has moved on."

Alou was right behind Beltran atop the Astros' wish list because he's an established run-producer and a former Astro, and seeing Alou sign with the San Francisco Giants was a sobering realization for McLane.

Beltran had 38 home runs, 104 RBIs and 42 stolen bases last season with the Astros and Kansas City Royals.

The five-tool switch-hitter raised his stock in the playoffs, hitting .435 with eight home runs, 14 RBIs and six stolen bases in 12 games while leading the Astros against the victorious Cardinals in the National League Championship Series.

With Craig Biggio, 39, and Jeff Bagwell, 36, closing in on retirement, McLane has lobbied Beltran, 27, to become the next face of the Astros.

"I told him, 'With Lance Berkman coming along and Roy Oswalt and yourself, you can be the next wave of Houston Astros,' " McLane said.

In McLane's perfect world, the Astros would have Beltran signed before Jan. 1.

Although the Mets have long been mentioned as potential suitors for Beltran, they hadn't been considered serious contenders until Beltran told a Puerto Rican newspaper about his interest in playing in Queens.

Minaya already surprised the baseball establishment by persuading fellow Dominican Pedro Martinez to leave the World Series champion Boston Red Sox and sign with the Mets.
________________________________________________________

It's interesting to finally see what Kent was offered.

MadMax

12-28-2004, 08:46 AM

Wow, Dvauth...I hope you're right, but I think it's wishful thinking. It seems every inference favors the 'stros...I wish that were so.

NJRocket

12-28-2004, 09:59 AM

Originally posted by MadMax
Wow, Dvauth...I hope you're right, but I think it's wishful thinking. It seems every inference favors the 'stros...I wish that were so.

I agree with Max...DV's thoughts on the situation are just that....DV's thoughts. Its not as though he was privy to some insider meeting and is giving us the scoop on what is happening. That being said, I hope it pans out the way you are describing...but we'll see.

I look at the Mets involvement 2 ways. First, they can help us in our "battle" with the Yanks. Wilpon will make damn sure that he tastefully disparages the Yankees organization during his courtship of Carlos...not even alluding to the fact that the Astros could be their main competition. This gives Carlos the "down" side of playing for the Yanks and since it comes from Wilpon, Drayton looks like the nice guy and we don't get into a mudslinging campaign with the Yanks.

This is also interesting...apparently, the Yanks and Mets are also fighting over someone else named Carlos who will make a ton of money.....Delgado. The Yanks have said in today's paper that their "plan B" for Beltran is to leave Bernie in CF, and bring in Delgado to play 1st (Giambi would DH if healthy). The Mets also want Delgado. The paper (the Post I believe...i read about 3 papers this morning) also says that an unnamed MLB GM is quoted saying that its a known thing that all things being equal, Carlos wants to stay in Houston.

NJRocket

12-28-2004, 10:08 AM

http://www.nypost.com/sports/mets/37252.htm

Here is the article i was reading earlier

Here's one of the excerpts...

The Mets are furthest along with Carlos Delgado, though the gulf between their offer (about $33 million for three years) and what the first baseman is seeking (four years at $45 million-plus) is wide. The Mets likely want to know for sure if they are in the Beltran derby before they commit even more dollars to Delgado.

The Wilpons are worried Beltran's agent, Scott Boras, is using the Mets to spur George Steinbrenner to bid more zealously, and that the organization risks humiliation with its fan base and the media if it loses a one-on-one financial battle against The Boss. An executive from a team not interested in Beltran said it was his perception that, all things being equal, Beltran would prefer to remain with the Astros.

The part about the Yanks wanting Delgado as a plan B may have come from the Star Ledger http://www.nj.com/yankees/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-2/1104216650129010.xml

The signing of Delgado by any team is on hold because the Yankees have told his agent that they want to wait to see whether they get Beltran. If they don't get Beltran, the Yankees plan to pursue Delgado to play first base, leaving Bernie Williams in center field and Jason Giambi at DH if he comes back at all.