Shandon figure out in less than 20 games what Pippen couldn't in 56 games [Archive]

RocketSiv

11-21-1999, 03:30 AM

Shandon Anderson and Pippen are similar players in a sense. Pippen has more talent but Anderson proved tonight he is smarter. Both are runners and not great three point shooters, both have struggle in our offense to this point. While Pippen continued to jack up threes all through the pre-season, regular season, and playoffs for the Rockets Shandon did what I begged Pippen to do all last season. While the defense played off him he took 1-2 steps in and shot a middle range jump shot which is his range. Pippen was money from there, had he done that this team would have been a whole lot better. Shandon's scoring has went up gradually each game and he finally saw how easy it is to get the middle distance jump shot any time he wants. Hopefully it keeps up but I am pretty sure it will. Anyways is just proves my point that you have to be an moron not to play in Rudy's half court sets. They are the absolute easiest in the NBA.

Caveman

11-21-1999, 03:33 AM

Yeah, with six rings, one can still be called a moron.

Rudy defenders work 24 hours a day.

[This message has been edited by Caveman (edited November 21, 1999).]

Rocketman95

11-21-1999, 04:40 PM

Good Caveman, defend Pippen just because someone who believes in Rudy blasts him.

Why don't you actually debunk anything RocketSiv stated? I happen to think he's right. Shandon, Williams, Mobley, and Francis have all shown this year the ability to slash and drive in this "horrible" offense. Even Drew has taken it more to the basket this year than Pippen ever did for christsakes. Why couldn't Pippen do it? Because he didn't want to. It was much more a Pippen problem than a Rudy problem.

P.S. It can also be stated truthfully that Rudy T haters work 24 hours a day too. I swear if we won the championship this year, Caveman would still be adding these one line posts on how Rudy T supporters are the most ignorant idiotic fans out there. For the life of me, I can't understand why you guys are on this BBS all the time, and not coaching a basketball team yourself.

[This message has been edited by Rocketman95 (edited November 21, 1999).]

Dr of Dunk

11-21-1999, 06:52 PM

Rings, rings, and more rings... Steve Kerr has a few of 'em, Luc Longley has a ring or two from what I remember... hell, there are 12th man nobody's that have rings... let's cut the "well, he's got 6 rings, so he must be right and shouldn't be criticized" BS. Rudy has his faults as well (God knows I'm holding back), but don't assume that since someone has a bunch of championship rings they're somehow insusceptible to err.

------------------
Rocket fuel pumps through these veins...

E.J. Tucker

11-21-1999, 07:04 PM

I'm wondering where the line is on how many RINGS are required to not be questioned on your judgement.

The number has to be greater than two and less then six, by some standards.

But with no rings and a computer you can judge who is right and who is wrong. Is this a great place or what??

Caveman

11-21-1999, 07:33 PM

Ok, I call the truce, please. You have my white flag on this one. I know some of you just could not let the Pippen go, you just have to keep blasting him. I just want to know, does Pippen have anything to do with Rockets right now? No! He is gone, disappeared, vanished to the West. So, forget him, unless you are just obssesed.I just don't understand how some guys just can put past behind.

I am a BIG Anderson fan. The main things is that Rudy is 2-9 and he has not given Anderson a chance to shine.

As far as this subject, You have my white flag.

Rocketman95:
I am amazed that you still think Rockets would have a chance to get a title this year. I know one should never say never, but, come on, you have got to have some common sense.

------------------
Rockets' biggest problem is not player talent levels, it is the coach's ineptitude.

[This message has been edited by Caveman (edited November 21, 1999).]

thedreamshake99

11-21-1999, 11:59 PM

I believe it took less than one week before Pippen had a triple double going for close to 30 points. So actually you only make the comparison even closer.

bballfanatic

11-22-1999, 12:13 AM

Thank you Rocketsiv: I have been a Pippen hater since he quit on us during the season and after the season. I hate his character. And I agree had he wanted to, he could have "played" to his potential last year. It goes back to his character. I thought maybe he wasn't that talented but he seems to be doing decently in Portland (though no great leader in my opinion)which goes back to the point that Pippen is a pouter and a quitter.

And I agree DrofDunk, who kept me laughing all during the game, that lots of nobodies have rings but that doesn't mean they know it all and cannot be disagreed with. Get real Caveman.

Dreamshake - Pippen might have done good one game into the season, which showed he could play IF HE WANTED TO, but overall his season was below his average, and he had "QUIT" written all over him. RocketSiv's point is valid - Shandon, Drew, MObley, even Walt sometimes and Carlos have showed Rudy's system works - YOU HAVE TO PLAY PIPPEN. As far as that, think what you want of Charles Barkley but he knows the game and he says the truth - he said Rudy changed the offense and made plenty of plays for Pippen but that Pippen had to start taking advantage of it.

SO THERE! Barkley spoke. The truth was said - THE FAULT IS PIPPEN'S. Not Rudy's. Not the Rockets' organization. Nothing makes me madder than a Rocket fan defending Scottie Pippen - not a smart move.

thedreamshake99

11-22-1999, 12:42 AM

Barkley also preceeded Maloney's long contract by touting him as a true talent. He also claimed Drew was the best guard on the Rox squad last year (when he wasn't even the 5th best). I believe he claimed that Oliver Miller was going to be a star. Can anyone truthfully claim that Barkley knows all?

As far as Anderson, Mobley, Drew, Williams and Rodgers go: Anderson has had one decent game. Mobley-one good game, and Drew-one marginally all right game. Williams hasn't had a good game yet that didn't include the 3 point line, And did you really say Rodger???? So how does this eclipse someone who averaged 15 points, and had 2 triple doubles last year ????????????????

You could barely combine any two of those players and get what Pippen averaged last year.

[This message has been edited by thedreamshake99 (edited November 21, 1999).]

Tenchi

11-22-1999, 12:51 AM

He's just a caveman he doesn't know any better.

Old School

11-22-1999, 01:02 AM

Caveman grunted: "Yeah, with six rings, one can still be called a moron."

Nice analogy, Will Purdue has a bunch of rings too...big deal.

Old School

MoDunks

11-22-1999, 02:07 AM

caveman "unless you are just obssesed."

You may want to revisit this statement and how it applies to yourself. From all the posting that I have read of yours, I believe "Rudy" has been a favorite name in every other line. Maybe you should get checked for a rare disease called "Rudynitis"....syptoms: constantly telling others how Rudy sucks, bashing of ALL BBS posters that mention the word "Rudy", doesn't have a great explanation behind the bashing of other BBS posters, AKA basketballfan, & has "diarrhea of the mouth."

If you have these syptoms, please consult your doctor IMMEDIATELY!

Caveman

11-22-1999, 02:10 AM

Well said, I do HATE Rudy's coaching to my guts. Also, Rudy thanks you for defending him by attacking his "haters".

------------------
Rockets' biggest problem is not player talent levels, it is the coach's ineptitude.

[This message has been edited by Caveman (edited November 22, 1999).]

bballfanatic

11-22-1999, 02:16 AM

Dreamshake, I have never heard Barkley saying those things about Matt Maloney and Oliver MIller. He almost didn't come back to the Rockets cus he wasn't happy with the guard situation.

I don't mean he is always right. But he tells it like it is and how he sees it. He was right about Pippen needing to take advantage of the plays put in for him, I do know that.

Mobley, Rogers (no D in Rogers, as someone previously has mentioned) and Anderson have given twice the effort Pippen did and have had more impact on the team than Pippen did in 95% of his games with this team.

I don't mean any offense but how can you defend Pippen. I see no logic in defending Pippen.

bballfanatic

11-22-1999, 02:19 AM

Whoopee. Pippen had two triple doubles last year? Let's see, does that mean he helped win 2 games in 52. Actually, that is about right. Including playoff games (where he played no defense on Glen Rice) he had 2-3 games that met expectation of his game. NO MATTER WHAT, it was right to get rid of him or let him go - I only wish he had been sent to the Clippers or Golden State. He did not deserve the Trail Blazers who were good enough to win without him anyway.

Achebe

11-22-1999, 02:33 AM

bballfanatic:
one of the triple doubles was against the clippers... we lost that game.

thedreamshake99

11-22-1999, 04:12 AM

BBall....No Im not a Pippen lover...never was. Not even when we first signed him. What I am is a rational person. I wasn't per say, defending Pippen as much as making a counterpoint to RocketSiv's point that suggests that it isn't Rudy's system as it is the players (Sorry Siv if Im wrong). I don't see the difference in Pippen's playing standing around the 3 point line, and anyone else like Shandons break out game. As was the case with Pippen, even the sun shines on a ...... you know the rest. Eventually Shandon (regarless of weather or not its the system) was bound for a decent game. I used the fact that it took only one week for Pippen to go for big points, as Anderson was used to suggest otherwise.

RocketSiv

11-22-1999, 11:48 PM

I'm glad some people agrees with me. This was not meant to be a post about how much I love Rudy. I do like Rudy as our coach and I do recognize his faults. My point was in Rudy's offense last year there was no motion. The only motion there was was from Brent Price. They played off Pippen so far that he could have easily put up 20+ points a game. The only reason he did not was because he did not try to. I don't think he even wanted to be here. I think he proved that this summer. He wanted to be in L.A. instead he ended up in Portland. His character will eventually be Portland's downfall and if they trade him they probably will not help themselves. There is no questioning his talent just his heart and desire.

Pass 1st, shoot 2nd

11-22-1999, 11:53 PM

RocketSiv,
Pippen got the last laugh-no doubt about it. I think he came here as an optimist. Sure he didn't get exactly what he wanted when he left, but Portland is a good place for him. I doubt Portland loses anything through signing him (but I hope he does). I just hope he gets a face full of Francis' jock on a dunk by the rookie.

Finalfantasy

11-22-1999, 11:56 PM

Pippen is definitely better than Shandon, Pippen is a PR idiot though. If Pippen get to play with Francis and the front guys step out to the high post like they are doing for Francis, Pippen will get 20 points a night, however, he sucked as he didn't have the mentality to be a consistent player, and he didn't step up his defense when his offense was down, he did that in Chicago though. The point is, Pippen is a bitch and the Rockets is the loser in this game, they gave Pippen 14 mils and then handed him a ring.

IWannaBeLikeDream

11-23-1999, 12:46 AM

I think Rudy is an average coach. We're 2-10 now. We need to shake things up! What's another loss if we discover a new strategy, or learn how to defend against the pick and roll(finally!). I don't think we should be posting up as much as we are. When the Rocks have possession the game slows WAY down....Francis...dribbles....dribbles.....to Barkley/Dream.....dribbles....dribbles.... back to Francis.....back to Dream/Barkley....back to Francis, back to Dream/Barkley......sometimes *swish*...but usually *CLANK* or nothing. Everyone else stands near or inside the three point line. Some more movement....please?

------------------
"Not NOW, Cato!!!"
-Kevin Calabro, Sonics Commentator

[This message has been edited by IWannaBeLikeDream (edited November 22, 1999).]

sailor

11-23-1999, 12:58 AM

RocketSiv:

I totally agree with you. Last season and off-season I said on numerous occassions that Pip was a cancer on the team, a whinny baby, damaged goods, etc. And it is true that he can't achieve anything without MJ and he simply doesn't have the ability to stand up like a man to lead a team. However, as far as talent, as much as I hate him as a player AND person, I just can't say "Shandon Anderson is a better basketball player than Pip". That's just simply untrue.

And the Rockets are to blame too. Not that they didn't try to integrate Pip into the "system" -- they did; but that they didn't do their homework before they hand somebody a big fat contract. The Brent Price deal, the Matt Maloney deal, now the Cato deal .. it just seems that when it comes to giving players long-term contracts, Les, CD and RT always make crucial judgemental mistakes. Well, actually I hope (and believe) they didn't make a mistake on Cato, but based on their track record and Cato's limited time, I am not very sure ...

Sailor

SirCharlesFan

11-23-1999, 10:46 PM

Shandon RULES!!!

Why did I post this???

------------------
Sir Charles is DA MAN.

RocketSiv

11-23-1999, 11:30 PM

I completely agree. While Scottie is the more talented player Shandon is the smarter player. Shandon will never be a hall of famer most likely but he didn't have Jordan either. I still doubt he would be hall of famer then. I do have to say though there is no contest, Pippen has more talent than Shandon.

bballfanatic

11-24-1999, 01:38 AM

bump this post JUST CUS I LAUGH OUT LOUD every time I read the topic. I think RocketSiv is right - what Shandon and others on the team are doing shows it is not the system, it was Pippen's lack of effort.

Sorry dreamshake if i misunderstood your post earlier.

Past 1st, Shoot 2nd - lol at the Francis jock in Pippen's face comment. That would be great. still laughing at the thought of this one. i can just see that scowl on pippen's face. deep belly roll laugh.

It's not fair to compare Shandon to Pippen cus I have to admit Pippen at one time was a superstar regardless if he was Robin to Jordan's Batman (think Blinebury said that).

Shandon is a very talented player and may become an allstar in my opinion, one of my favorite players on the team, but I like him cus he hustles out there and makes plays and he don't cry. He is more a superstar of character and Lil Pip could learn a lot from him.

Great post, RocketSiv. May bump again later.

thedreamshake99

11-24-1999, 06:22 AM

bball...A few things

1. Barkley did say those things about Maloney. I remember it first hand. The Oliver Miller comment I remeber slightly, with someone reassuring me on it.

2. Just like Pippen's situation last year. S. Anderson is already grumbling about it being a mistake coming to Houston (through his agent). Usually the Agent speaks what the player is thinking.

[This message has been edited by thedreamshake99 (edited November 24, 1999).]

Rock1

11-24-1999, 10:01 AM

Yo Caveman...Rudy has a couple of rings too and don't give me "only because MJ wasn't playing". Rudy didn't have MJ, Scottie, the worm, Kerr etc. He had Hakeem and a mixture of rookies and players nobody else wanted. So with the ring theory....why can't you give he just a little respect.

I don't think he's perfect, I'd love to see less of Bryce and more of Shandon and maybe an offensive change here and there to fool the other team but, I think you go to far.