Potential Game 4 dilemma

[meh]

There's not much one can complain about in the Astros win yesterday. But one thing that bothered me was Clemens going out in the 7th inning after going over 100 pitches in the first 6 innings. This, plus after reading Garner's comments in the Chronicle today about Clemens' problems on short rest, seems to imply the Rocket will not start game 4.

I'm really hoping this series would be a sweep. Or at the very least, be 2-1 going into the 4th game. Because I'm not particularly thrilled with Clemens on 3 days rest(after a 117 pitch performance) or Munro on the mound on Sunday.

[arkoe]

I'd take a winded Clemens over a good to go Munro any day.

[gunn]

Game 4? You didn't get the memo? Backe is sealing the deal on Saturday.

[bobrek]

Munro starts and goes 1 inning, followed by Harville for 1, Gallo for 1, Springer for 1, Wheeler for 1, Qualls for 2, Miceli for 1 and Lidge for 1

[Nick]

This will only be a dillema for game 4 of the NLCS!

[meh]

Originally posted by bobrek
Munro starts and goes 1 inning, followed by Harville for 1, Gallo for 1, Springer for 1, Wheeler for 1, Qualls for 2, Miceli for 1 and Lidge for 1

That's probably what I'm thinking. Start Munro and put him on an incredibly short leash. Then you can save Clemens for game 5 on normal rest.

[Master Baiter]

What is all this Game 4, Game 5 nonsense???? I want to pull out the brooms baby!! Astros are gonna kick that ass!!

[PhiSlammaJamma]

I'm pretty sure that I heard Clemens and Oswalt will pitch 4 and 5. And Im fine with that. The playoffs are no time to be messing around with crappy pitchers. Clemens is the horse that brought us. If he fatlers. Oswalt pictches game 5. So who cares. I'd rather lose with Clemens than Munro. In a seven game series. Maybe Munro because less pressure. But still, I'm a 3 man rotation guy myself.

[Austin70]

Originally posted by gunn
Game 4? You didn't get the memo? Backe is sealing the deal on Saturday.

Big Game Backe to the rescue.

[meh]

Originally posted by PhiSlammaJamma
I'm pretty sure that I heard Clemens and Oswalt will pitch 4 and 5. And Im fine with that. The playoffs are no time to be messing around with crappy pitchers. Clemens is the horse that brought us. If he fatlers. Oswalt pictches game 5. So who cares. I'd rather lose with Clemens than Munro. In a seven game series. Maybe Munro because less pressure. But still, I'm a 3 man rotation guy myself.

Well, the problem is that Clemens has been quite mediocre on short rest. Perhaps not to the level of Munro, but certainly not nearly as dominant. And the guy's 42.

Pitching Clemens on Sunday also means that Oswalt will pitch on Monday with short rest, as opposed to Clemens on full rest. Which could cancel out any advantage you get for pitching Clemens over Munro in game 4.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by meh
Well, the problem is that Clemens has been quite mediocre on short rest. Perhaps not to the level of Munro, but certainly not nearly as dominant. And the guy's 42.

Pitching Clemens on Sunday also means that Oswalt will pitch on Monday with short rest, as opposed to Clemens on full rest. Which could cancel out any advantage you get for pitching Clemens over Munro in game 4.

yeah...i hear ya. this is my concern, too. clemens on short days rest has not been effective.

[shawn786]

Game 4?? Ummm i think your mistakin there isnt going to be a game 4 :cool:

[Jebus]

Originally posted by Nick
This will only be a dillema for game 4 of the NLCS!

You weren't planning on getting to the World Series?
:D

[RocketFan007]

IMO, the only way Munro starts a game in the playoffs is if we are up 3-0 going into Game 4 or 3-1 going into Game 5 of the NLCS or World Series. I'd much rather have Clemens, Oswalt and Backe on short rest than Munro.

[Buck Turgidson]

If he pitches on Sunday and doesn't fare well, it ain't because of the 10 pitches he threw in the 7th.

[Baqui99]

I think we should bring out one of the big guns like Darren Oliver, Brandon Duckworth, or Tim Redding.

[leroy420]

The fact is that we are going to need a 4th starter no matter what (assuming that we get to the NLCS/WS). Might as well get Munro out there on the short leash that he has been on. As long as Backe can put in 5-6 innings, there is no reason we can't use the whole pen on Sunday (if necessary) and have Roger on 4 days rest for game 5 (which won't happen).

[Sonny]

Any news on Pettitte, is it even a possibility that he could return in the playoffs?

[Buck Turgidson]

Nah, Sonny, AP & Miller are done.

[Texas Stoke]

Originally posted by leroy420
The fact is that we are going to need a 4th starter no matter what (assuming that we get to the NLCS/WS). Might as well get Munro out there on the short leash that he has been on. As long as Backe can put in 5-6 innings, there is no reason we can't use the whole pen on Sunday (if necessary) and have Roger on 4 days rest for game 5 (which won't happen).

I would go with this. If a game 5 is necessary we would not only have Roger ready but Roy would be available out of the bullpen if Roger struggles early. But like others have said its not going to matter because the series will be over when Backe pitches a no-hitter saturday.

[leroy420]

Originally posted by Buck Turgidson
Nah, Sonny, AP & Miller are done.

Both are also on the 60-day DL and not eligible for the postseason (I believe).

[Saint Louis]

Clemens didn't have his "A" game yesterday and he gutted out a big victory. I don't care how much rest or what his normal schedule is, Clemens gets the ball if there is a game 4. Mainly because I want Oswalt to pictch game 5.

The playoffs are no time to worry about who is tired. This is no longer a marathon, but a sprint. You send your big guns out there as much as possible.

[Fegwu]

Originally posted by gunn
Game 4? You didn't get the memo? Backe is sealing the deal on Saturday.

Thank you.

Here I am thinking I sent the memo to every Clutchfans forum member :(

[francis 4 prez]

Originally posted by Saint Louis

The playoffs are no time to worry about who is tired.


yeah but facing chipper jones with 2 on and a one run lead in the 6th inning is. pitchers can convince themselves they're not tired or try to play through it all they want but if the tank is getting empty, the tank is getting empyt and it's going to affect the pitching. if clemens and oswalt do go on 3 days rest, lets just hope it doesn't affect them much.

[sm0d]

Originally posted by bobrek
Munro starts and goes 1 inning, followed by Harville for 1, Gallo for 1, Springer for 1, Wheeler for 1, Qualls for 2, Miceli for 1 and Lidge for 1


maybe munro will get injured in the first and we'll no hit them...

[GranvilleWaders]

If the Stros lose game 3 of the series and go down 1-2 ..you can bet we see Clemens in game 4!

[Hmm]

Originally posted by GranvilleWaders
If the Stros lose game 3 of the series and go down 1-2 ..you can bet we see Clemens in game 4!

Well, we're up 2-1 and apparently we're gonna see Clemens in game 4 :)

[meh]

Here are the stats for Clemens for his last four starts on 3 days rest.

Date Opp IP H R ER PC Dec.
08/15/93 TOR 3.2 9 6 6 087 L
08/31/93 TEX 6.2 9 6 6 108 L
07/18/01 DET 5.2 9 5 5 106 W
04/11/02 TOR 5.0 8 6 5 109 L

This is the type of stat line I'd expect from Pete Munro. So I guess Clemens at least have a chance to be better. Also, Clemens has pitched pretty well at MM Park. So it might be better for him to start game 4 over game 5.

Seriously crossing my fingers thoug. Hope he comes through with a solid performance.

[thacabbage]

I would start Clemens on 10 minutes rest before I even considered Munro. This is the playoffs. You do not f*ck around with the likes of Peter Munro when you are on the brink of winning your first ever playoff series.

[DaDakota]

cabbage,

Amen, and if Clemens does not get it down...Oswalt is on tap.

DD

[meh]

Originally posted by thacabbage
I would start Clemens on 10 minutes rest before I even considered Munro. This is the playoffs. You do not f*ck around with the likes of Peter Munro when you are on the brink of winning your first ever playoff series.

Actually, the Astros shouldn't even be f*cking around with the likes of Brandon Backe in the playoffs. Had our staff been healthy, Backe wouldn't even have a chance to pitch, much less start, in the series. Are you suggesting that starting Clemens on 2 days rest today over Brandon Backe wouldn't be a bad idea?

Perhaps Clemens will dominate tomorrow, ala Santana tonight, and I'll happily feel like an idiot for doubting him in the first place. But right now, I'm feeling like a pitching commitee of relievers would do a better job.

[bigballerj]

I would have Clemens on a strict pitch count. Nothing above 90 or 100 pitches. If he gets into trouble early, DO NOT send in Oswalt. He needs to saved for Game 5.

[bobrek]

Originally posted by bigballerj
I would have Clemens on a strict pitch count. Nothing above 90 or 100 pitches. If he gets into trouble early, DO NOT send in Oswalt. He needs to saved for Game 5.

Why have him on a pitch count? As long as he is pitching well and they are winning, you keep him in. If he is pitching poorly you take him out. He is 42 years old, no need to worry about ruining his arm. This is the current "biggest game in team history" and they need to let the status of the game (i.e. close score or big lead/deficit) and the quality (not quantity) of his pitches determine things. If Clemens has thrown 100 pitches in 6 innings but is still mowing them down, leave him in for the 7th. They can't think about the NLCS until they get through the NLDS.

[Saint Louis]

We shall see if I am right here shortly, but I believe Clemens is up to the task. Clemens may not have had much success in the past on three days rest, but this time is different. Clemens will be taking the mound for the team in the metro area where he grew up. Not just taking the mound in the playoffs at home, but in a game where the Astros can claim their first series victory in franchise history. I think his juices will be flowing today.

Backe is also from the Houston area and look what he did yesterday. I wouldn't start anyone but Clemens, Oswalt or Backe the rest of the playoffs. That leaves more then enough pitchers in our bullpen to back them up if needed.