Why are Rockets fans so down on Juwan Howard?

[cody]

As I read through these threads a lot of people continue to not have regards for J. Howard.

Lets remember that this is a guy who has managed to avg. 17.8 pts for his career. With his lowest season average being when he was with the trigger happy Mavs, 12.9 pts.

Juwon has seemingly gotten a negative rep around the league because he's been put in situations that he couldn't live up to.

1) He didn't turn into the superstar that his contract with Washington mandated. Who say's no to a $100 million? It's not like he held out for it. They presented it and he said, Yes.

2) In Dallas he was the forth option on an already undersized non-defensive minded team, where he basically had to force shots to get any looks. And he was the ONLY low post presence on the entire team.

3) Denver was a lose-lose situation.

4) In Orlando he was asked to play center at 6'9".

The bottom line is he's going be the perfect role player that teams have to respect. He's gonna feed off Yao and T-Mac and probably avg. about 12pts. Not only that but rumor has it that his locker room attitude is great.

[DavidS]

It was the "$105 MILLION DOLLAR CONTRACT" stigma. People still remember that.

By the way, he's not getting paid that anymore. New contract...

***Juwan Howard***
Annual Salary: $4,917,000
Contract Legth: 5 years
Contract Total: $34,000,000
Contract Thru: 2007-08

MoT: $48,000,000

[shawn786]

Arnt u the guy who asked for a ESPN Insiders username and password? Yeah i dont think (edit)you should post anymore.

[GoatBoy]

Most people would like to see the Rockets pick up a defensive-minded 4, IMO. A banger who can also score. Right now we don't have an enforcer type. Not so much that J-Ho is terrible, just that he isn't what we hoped to have at the 4.

Just my $.02.

[cody]

Shawn, It was a mistake..... get over it. I notified the administrator and had him remove the thread... by the way aren't u they guy whose sister.......................................... yeah that's u!!!! (lol)

[m_cable]

Not everyone is down on Juwan. In fact I think it might be closer to 2/3 think Juwan will be fine, and 1/3 don't like him at all. I'm in the he'll be fine camp. He can make an open 12 footer and historically he's rebounded at a better rate than Motay. And we're only looking for him to be the third or fourth best player on the team. He'll be all right.

[solid]

I think Howard is going to surprise Houston fans. I read somewhere that the coaching staff is very excited about getting him in the trade. His game should compliment Ming well. The Rockets are going to be a smart, disciplined, consistent and offensively explosive team, just the opposite of last year.

[New Jack]

I’m not down on Howard as much as I’m down on the combo of Howard and Taylor. They seem redundant to me. One has to go, and Howard is the easiest to trade.

[shawn786]

Originally posted by cody
Shawn, It was a mistake..... get over it. I notified the administrator and had him remove the thread... by the way aren't u they guy whose sister.......................................... yeah that's u!!!! (lol)

You kno what the funney part is, i dont have a sister.... so maybe your thnking about your own!

[DavidS]

Originally posted by solid
I think Howard is going to surprise Houston fans. I read somewhere that the coaching staff is very excited about getting him in the trade. His game should compliment Ming well. The Rockets are going to be a smart, disciplined, consistent and offensively explosive team, just the opposite of last year.

I agree. I think JH is worth 34MIL and will surprise a lot of people. I think that his quick lateral movement and Yao's sheer size will complement each other very well.

Just get those boards, Juwan! :mad: :)

[Baqui99]

Actually, I'm quite happy with getting Howard in the TMac deal. Mo Taylor can't be counted on for more than 25-30 minutes a night. Howard is a guy that can give you some minutes at C when Yao's on the bench.

Only problem is that is jumper is damn ugly, and painful to watch. He seems to be able to stick it with some consistency. Also, he's an average rebounder that is soft, and doens't like to push people around in the paint.

[HoRockets]

I've always had a healthy respect for Howard and am quite happy we got him in the deal. As long as he doesn't get injured (age being an issue) he's gonna do great here.

[MFW2310]

Rockers fans aren't down on Howard, it's the few morons that are, although no one likes the length (not size) of his contract.

[NBAHOU713]

I'll take Yao and Howard over Yao and Cato anytime.

[emjohn]

Originally posted by Baqui99
Howard is a guy that can give you some minutes at C when Yao's on the bench.
No, he's really not. This isn't the East.

Howard is going to be very nice as a third option. He can post, has a fair midrange game, and has been a consistent 17 and 7 guy his whole career (including last year).

Evan

[HillBoy]

I have watched Howard at Denver, Dallas & Orlando and I am simply no all that impressed with him. Oh, he's an OK player but not the elite or near elite caliber of player that will make them truly competative in the West. He's the basketball equivalent of what Jeff Bagwell has become: A player who can put up respectable numbers but one who has virtually no impact on your team's ability to win. To me, he and MoT are one and the same player with the exception being that Howard actually remembers to grab a few rebounds along the way. Both players are undersized and do not match up physically well against the Stoudemires, Nowitzkis, Garnetts, Martins & Duncans who inhabit the conference. I think a lot of folks here are hoping for more than he can deliver because he does not bring the physical toughness to the position that Cato did and I don't see him being enough of a threat to penalize teams that collapse their defenses around Yao.

[Charvo]

I'd trade Mo for Antonio Davis if I could. The dollar amount for the contracts are similar, but Antonio's contract is over 2 years. Mo has a contract over 3 years. Bulls are severely lacking in a consistent low post threat. Mo can dish out to guys like Ben Gordon and Hinrich. Rockets need a banger and board guy. Antonio is a muscular player who will hit people hard.

Antonio can fit in as the starting pf/backup center.

[m_cable]

Originally posted by emjohn
and has been a consistent 71 and 7 gut his whole career (including last year).


Man 71 and 7. He'd be the G.O.A.T. if he was posting those kind of numbers.

[Sherlock]

It all depends on how tough Yao is in the paint this year. We all noticed how we started losing, when Cato was injured. I think it has more to do with needing toughness next to Yao, not whether he's a good player, or not.

If Yao comes out with fire, Juwan will be great next to him. Last year, we often wished we had a PF who had the defense, rebounding and muscle of Cato, and the offensive moves of Taylor. Well, we got someone who was a balance, but not great at anything. He's a very consistent player, night in and night out. I think he's definitely worth his contract. Howard and Taylor aren't redundant at all. One is a starter, the other is instant offense off the bench. But, most of us would like more muscle in that spot.

[JayZ750]

Originally posted by Sherlock
We all noticed how we started losing, when Cato was injured.

Yeah, when any team loses a starter then their performance is going to go down. Cato probably was the "enforcer" on the team last year, but lets not get confused - he still wasn't great or anything.

[Willis25]

I like the Howard pick up (he and JJ are GREAT 3rd options night-in-night out)

For those JH haters in the crowd... exactly WHO do you want to replace him ?!?

PS - what is the over-under on the number of posts this thread gets before tinman weights in

http://home.att.net/~puppetparts/_borders/tinman-oz.jpg

[jump shooter]

I agree with you Sherlock, that is why it's so important to get that second shotblocker ie. Mutombo or Clark to always play along side Howard or Taylor when Yao is out of the game. Some people on this board may not realize but Tim Duncan dropped 47 pts on Orlando this year with Howard playing alot of that game. He needs a legit shotblocker watching his back out there so he can crowd and harass a guy like Duncan on the defensive end.
One of the things I really like about Howard is he is a smart basketball player and is more of a good fit chemistry guy for the rockets and I think he will be able to flourish playing off of Yao and T-Mac.

[DavidS]

Originally posted by HillBoy
I have watched Howard at Denver, Dallas & Orlando and I am simply no all that impressed with him. Oh, he's an OK player but not the elite or near elite caliber of player that will make them truly competative in the West. He's the basketball equivalent of what Jeff Bagwell has become: A player who can put up respectable numbers but one who has virtually no impact on your team's ability to win. To me, he and MoT are one and the same player with the exception being that Howard actually remembers to grab a few rebounds along the way. Both players are undersized and do not match up physically well against the Stoudemires, Nowitzkis, Garnetts, Martins & Duncans who inhabit the conference. I think a lot of folks here are hoping for more than he can deliver because he does not bring the physical toughness to the position that Cato did and I don't see him being enough of a threat to penalize teams that collapse their defenses around Yao.

Originally posted by Sherlock
It all depends on how tough Yao is in the paint this year. We all noticed how we started losing, when Cato was injured. I think it has more to do with needing toughness next to Yao, not whether he's a good player, or not.

If Yao comes out with fire, Juwan will be great next to him. Last year, we often wished we had a PF who had the defense, rebounding and muscle of Cato, and the offensive moves of Taylor. Well, we got someone who was a balance, but not great at anything. He's a very consistent player, night in and night out. I think he's definitely worth his contract. Howard and Taylor aren't redundant at all. One is a starter, the other is instant offense off the bench. But, most of us would like more muscle in that spot.

These two post pretty much sum up the reality of the situation. Howard is no "superstar." He's just a good all-around PF that rebounds/passes a bit better than MoT.

It's going to be intresting how well Yao and Howard play off each other; double-teams and such. It would be nice that we can have a starting PF that can rebound AND hit the open 15 footer.

This is why it's sooooo important for Howard to rebound more than his customary 7 rpg.

[Drex22]

I have always liked Howard. I see him as an outstanding 3rd option that we are luck to have.

[Rocket River]

some people just feel he is redundant

He is MO T all over again to alot of folx

I will just wait and see

Rocket RIver

[cody]

With the exception of Jamison when he was in Dallas and the Lakers while Karl Malone was there, there hasn't been a 17pt/ per player on a team and he isn't the 1st or 2nd option.

I see this as a win- win for Houston.

He stuggled in orlando while being the second option mainly because T-Mac was going to get his and teams simply clamped down on everybody else, because orlando was that bad. Playing alongside Yao, T-Mac, and JJ teams don't have that luxury. They have to play everybody.

[pugsly8422]

I think people are hoping for too much. Sure we can pray, but we can also be realistic. We all (or at least most of us) want a solid 4 who can grab rebounds, play defense, and score when asked. Well we can't always have what we want, so we have to make do with what we have. Everyone wants to trade JH for that perfect 4 we all want, but unfortunately it's just not realistic in most cases. We'd all like to get rid of him to get someone that would be perfect for us, like Ben Wallace, but that just isn't happening. Lets be happy with what we have and if we get lucky enough then fine, trade him for exactly what we really need, and if not oh well. We can't have exactly what we want at every position.

Pugs

[xiki]

Originally posted by New Jack
I’m not down on Howard as much as I’m down on the combo of Howard and Taylor. They seem redundant to me. One has to go, and Howard is the easiest to trade.

This pretty much covers it.

Give me Juwann over MoT, but Juwann can bring back assets and Rox still have Mo, and still have Mo, and still...

Good 6th man, not so good 4.

[ragingFire]

Originally posted by HillBoy
I have watched Howard at Denver, Dallas & Orlando and I am simply no all that impressed with him. Oh, he's an OK player but not the elite or near elite caliber of player that will make them truly competative in the West. He's the basketball equivalent of what Jeff Bagwell has become: A player who can put up respectable numbers but one who has virtually no impact on your team's ability to win. To me, he and MoT are one and the same player with the exception being that Howard actually remembers to grab a few rebounds along the way. Both players are undersized and do not match up physically well against the Stoudemires, Nowitzkis, Garnetts, Martins & Duncans who inhabit the conference. I think a lot of folks here are hoping for more than he can deliver because he does not bring the physical toughness to the position that Cato did and I don't see him being enough of a threat to penalize teams that collapse their defenses around Yao.
I don't think JH is such a big drop-off from Amare and Kenyon, he does something worse and other things better. Never mind those guys make or will make close to the Max $.

I do agree that JH is not as good as Nowitzki, KG and Duncan ... Oh hell, why didn't the Rockets trade Cato for those guys instead ... stupid CD ...

[JayZ750]

Originally posted by cody
He stuggled in orlando while being the second option mainly because T-Mac was going to get his and teams simply clamped down on everybody else, because orlando was that bad. Playing alongside Yao, T-Mac, and JJ teams don't have that luxury. They have to play everybody.

Howard was only ever so slightly worse than career averages in all categories in Orlando. 17 points, 7 boards isn't really struggling. That said, it was a struggle for every player on that team due to the complete lack of chemistry and wins.

[AroundTheWorld]

It's the $ 105 mio. contract plus the fact that he has always been a huge fantasy basketball disappointment...

[JuanValdez]

I'm happy to have him.

[pasox2]

Howard is absolutely fine by mine. As long as he can pull his defender away from Yao, and knock down the jumper if he's left open, he'll be effective. I think he's better than Mo T because Howard can play off Yao and McGrady, while Mo T can't.

Howard's defense is going to be better with Yao behind him, including the rebounding. When he was teamed with Webber, he was more effective. Mo, on the other hand, is completely incapable of playing any kind of team game. The sooner we terminate that kind of cancer the better, even if we have to pay to have him eliminated.

[VooDooPope]

I think he's going to be a nice 4 for the rockets this year. Not an allstar but a player who knows his role and is happy to play hard each night.

[mateo]

I like Howard as the 3rd scoring threat.

Plus its fun to say "Juwan another chicken mcnugget?"

[Willis25]

Originally posted by Sir Jackie Chiles
plus the fact that he has always been a huge fantasy basketball disappointment...

I traded Finley (early last season) for him and that tank job he did in Orlando was UNFORGIVABLE

[Zacatecas]

Well, Howard is the best we've had a Power Forward since unfortunatley Kenny Thomas.

Taylor is a defensive/rebounding dud. Cato was retarded on the offensive end. Griffin jacked nothing but 3 pointer his whole career.

Anyway anyone cuts it, Howard will have been the most complete Power Forward the Rockets have had in quite a while. Sure, everyone sees Garnett, Duncan, Webber, Nowitski, etc. and we get jelous that we have a slightly below average Power Forward. But don't you guys think other teams look at their center position and their shooting guard positions and ENVY the Rockets Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady tandem.

Come on, our Power Position is respectable. Taylor is the perfect 6 man, solid offensive talent off the bench.

[mbiker]

Howard brings something we have not had in a long time, and that’s consistency. You can count on him to have the same numbers every night. His only deficiency is defense, but I have faith that JVG can improve this.

[Deuce]

I actually feel that Howard will be a good addition to this team. Another good veteran presence in the locker room ala Jim Jackson. Howard will be more effective with Yao at center. And teams wont be able to double off Howard like they did with Cato while Yao was in the game.

I really think the role player additions of Sura and Howard will surprise people. I think they will make a big impact to this team this year much like Jim Jackson did last year. Those 3 role players along with our two stars in McGrady and Yao make a pretty nice starting lineup.

[munco]

I can see MoT beating out Juwan for the starting PF spot. Although most people here seem to think otherwise. Even if he doesn't start, I believe MoT will get more PT than Howard.

[BONIERO1576]

I think pretty much everyone is excited of what this team can do on offense but, inserting Juwan in the place of Cato could put us in the middle of the pack defensively. Since that was such a strength for us last season we'll have to wait to see if that is a change that we can survive.

[JayZ750]

Originally posted by Willis25
I traded Finley (early last season) for him and that tank job he did in Orlando was UNFORGIVABLE

Are you talking about Howard?? Again, what exactly were you expecting that he didn't give you? His numbers were only ever so slightly down from career averages and the prior year (though he did shoot better from the field and the FT line last year than the year before). I don't really understand, at least from a fantasy perspective, what you're talking about (except for the fact that Michael Finley is probably a better player and you should have kept him anyway).

[Will]

I watched Howard for years in Washington. He was resented by me and other fans because he failed to become the kind of dominant force Webber (or Garnett, the player drafted after Howard) became. But Webber was the headcase and was eventually traded away (another dumb lopsided Washington trade, but never mind). Point is, Howard is two things: smart and workmanlike. Those are two things Van Gundy likes a lot and responds well to. I expect Howard to fit in well here if he stays.

Lots of guys make no sense in one situation but fit beautifully into another. Mostly 1st options who would be more comfortable as 2nd options, or 2nd options who should be 3rd, etc. Howard, with Yao and McGrady, could turn out to be in the right situation.

Taylor, on the other hand, has progressively gone from a situation in which he made enormous sense (when we acquired him) to one in which he made less sense, and now to one in which he makes almost no sense. That's when you'd be doing the player a service to trade him.

[dback816]

Blah, I like the Howard + Taylor duo at PF...well not really, but I do think Howard will be a small, a very small improvement over Cato overall.

I do think however that our defense will SUFFER next season. People like to talk about this "team defense", but they dont realize that without great individual defenders/athletes, the concept of "team defense" is just pure garbage.

I hope Howard will be more comfortable being the 3rd-4th option on the team, and hit that ugly, ugly, ugly jumper of his. MoTay I really dont know, he does seem redudant but nobody wants him right now anyway, so we gotta keep him and hope for the best. He is WILLING to put a body on people but just not very good at it, I think that's at least a good thing about him.

[xiki]

Originally posted by Will
Taylor, on the other hand, has progressively gone from a situation in which he made enormous sense (when we acquired him) to one in which he made less sense, and now to one in which he makes almost no sense. That's when you'd be doing the player a service to trade him.

True, but the player's contract renders that possibility (virtually) empty.

[joolut]

Originally posted by Will
He was resented by me and other fans because he failed to become the kind of dominant force Webber (or Garnett, the player drafted after Howard) became. But Webber was the headcase and was eventually traded away (another dumb lopsided Washington trade, but never mind).

KG drafted #5 in 1995
JH drafted #5 in 1994

[joolut]

Put me into the pro-Howard category. Look, fact is, nobody is, or should for that matter, expecting Howard to be Garnett or Duncan. There is no way in hell we are going to get that caliber of player on this team this year, whether we traded stevie or not. So how can anyone hold that against JH if he is considered the next best thing?

Also, MoT's best year on a real team (00-01 Rockets) netted 13 and 5.5, those numbers barely match JH's WORST year in the NBA. So how can you can call them redundant? JH has always been a starter in this league, MoT has basically been a "6th man of the year" candidate. JH is definitely an upgrade. We should at least wait and see what he does for us before we start b#%ing about him.

[Hippieloser]

So wait... who's going down on Howard again?

[xelloss12]

Originally posted by Hippieloser
So wait... who's going down on Howard again?

Tinman :)

[erdega79]

apparently he is 25th worst player in the league (http://probasketball.about.com/od/player1/a/worstNBAplayers.htm) :D

25. Juwan Howard, PF, Houston -- The burden of carrying his garish contract sucked the life out of Howard's game long ago

[dumbholly]

reece gaines is also on the list at #12

[Will]

Originally posted by joolut
KG drafted #5 in 1995
JH drafted #5 in 1994
Damn, all these years I've been holding a myth against him. That was Rasheed Wallace the Bullets drafted ahead of Garnett.

Did I mention that the Bullets, with a forward trio of Wallace, Howard, and Webber, chose to get rid of Wallace and Webber and keep Howard?

OK, now I hate him again.

[rocket3forlife2]

Yeah, when any team loses a starter then their performance is going to go down. Cato probably was the "enforcer" on the team last year, but lets not get confused - he still wasn't great or anything.



dosent matter he had a impact on our team.without him we couldn't win.

[Willis25]

Originally posted by JayZ750
Are you talking about Howard?? Again, what exactly were you expecting that he didn't give you? His numbers were only ever so slightly down from career averages and the prior year (though he did shoot better from the field and the FT line last year than the year before). I don't really understand, at least from a fantasy perspective, what you're talking about (except for the fact that Michael Finley is probably a better player and you should have kept him anyway).

Yes I am talking about Howard (who I like for the Rox - btw) Finley was playing like garbage early last season, so I wanted to go for some consistency in rebs and pts (so I looked to 18 and 7 Howard). The only problem was the Magic were so poorly run that they could not get Howard and Gooden's roles straght during that losing streak. Howard was very inconsisent early in the year last year. In the 2nd half he was solid again (after Gooden moved to the bench) - but by then Finley was exploding - so the trade was lop-sided against me

[Willis25]

Originally posted by erdega79
apparently he is 25th worst player in the league (http://probasketball.about.com/od/player1/a/worstNBAplayers.htm) :D

that is a riduculous article... if they want to include Howard with those scrubs (and they even mention his contract as a factor)
then they need to add KWAME BROWN or the list cannot be valid !

http://www.nba.com/draft2001/images/brown_mom.jpg

[HillBoy]

Originally posted by erdega79
apparently he is 25th worst player in the league (http://probasketball.about.com/od/player1/a/worstNBAplayers.htm) :D
This is a FUNNY list! I was LMAO! Did you notice how many players for Dallas show up on that list? And, he still didn't mention Shawn Bradley who is by far the WORST PLAYER IN THE NBA! Few people know this but Shawn's been mentoring Evan while they both sit at the end of the Mavericks bench collecting Mark Cuban's money.

On a more serious note, Howard doesn't belong on that list - maybe on the most overpaid NBA players of all time but not on a list of busts because he does have game. Gaines, on the other hand, does carry a slight aroma of bust.

[LongTimeFan]

Originally posted by Sir Jackie Chiles
It's the $ 105 mio. contract plus the fact that he has always been a huge fantasy basketball disappointment...

What $105 million? Who cares what he used to make, he gets paid less than Mo Taylor.

Pro-Howard.

[Willis25]

Originally posted by LongTimeFan
What $105 million? Who cares what he used to make, he gets paid less than Mo Taylor.

Pro-Howard.

I am pro-Howard too... but I think the poster was speculating why this BBS's vocal minority keeps dogging Howard before he ever suits up for the ROx

[Desert Scar]

That list is ridiculus, Lue is one of the better PG bargains at 1.6 mill per year.

As for JH, I am glad to have him, but not carried away. He is paid less than MoT, but he is older and has a longer contract, in 2-3 years he might not look to be an assett.

I will say this JH/MoT makes the best PF combination we have had in a while. If you look and efficiency and performance per minute (shooting, PPM, RPM)--both players have very similar production.

So I am not down on JH, but those that think he will have a world of different player than when MoT is in there, or that Mot is no longer useful because we have JH--I will correct that. Truth is right now we need both JH/MoT.

[tinman]

Originally posted by Willis25
I like the Howard pick up (he and JJ are GREAT 3rd options night-in-night out)

For those JH haters in the crowd... exactly WHO do you want to replace him ?!?

PS - what is the over-under on the number of posts this thread gets before tinman weights in

http://home.att.net/~puppetparts/_borders/tinman-oz.jpg

I'd replace Juwan Howard with someone who's good.
Who plays good Defense and doesnt have a reputation for being overrated. I've posted too much on this subject. I'll just give you some links of what the experts think.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_5_223/ai_53744675

Juwan Howard, Wizards. The former "Fab Five" member can't do it all himself, but since he has been in Washington, the Bullets/Wizards have done absolutely nothing (three playoff games in four seasons). With Chris Webber gone to Sacramento, this is now Howard's team. How will he respond? Like the budding star who averaged 22.1 points and 8.1 rebounds in '95-96? Or like the screw-up who pleaded guilty to driving while intoxicated in '96?

http://www.nba.com/fantasy_games/forum_index.html

NOTABLY OVERRATED: Juwan Howard, Denver
He's a good player on a bad team and has put up very nice numbers, but Howard likely doesn't make the cut if this list gets done today. By his own standards, he's having a fine season, with his best scoring average in four years. But there are other quality power forwards who would knock him down a couple notches on the draft board.

http://high5.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=252073


Overpaid: With perennial list leader Juwan Howard's more reasonable contract I would have put Vin Baker as the new leader for overpaid however it is my Most Improved list which he leads instead. Vin was overrated even in his "allstar" years and this season is a step up from then. He's playing at about a $10 million level and getting paid $13.5. Here's Vin's TPR over the last 9 seasons; 84, 96, 100, 99, 44, 63, 59, 62 and 53 last year. He's at about 110 so far this year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?id=1639300

"The deciding factor was to play for a team that has a chance of winning," Howard said. "I wanted to find a team that was one player away from helping them get over the hump. It was a good fit."

Is Howard that player? The Magic are pleased that Howard decided to play for them, but they aren't going that far just yet.


Yeah and look what happened to Orlando.

HOWEVER I'd rather have this overrated player than Shareef 'dont like it' Abur Rahim. And I hope he can be the 'Carl Herrera' of the new Rockets.
I'll give Juwan half a season to prove that he could be as good as Carl Herrera or Chucky Brown or Bullard for the Rockets. I'm doing this for Willis.

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/dunkwillis.jpg

[DavidS]

Originally posted by tinman
HOWEVER I'd rather have this overrated player than Shareef 'dont like it' Abur Rahim. And I hope he can be the 'Carl Herrera' of the new Rockets.
I'll give Juwan half a season to prove that he could be as good as Carl Herrera or Chucky Brown or Bullard for the Rockets. I'm doing this for Willis

Hey, tinman...I thought you were going to show us an article that didn't tie JH's $105 MIL contract to that infamous word: overrated!

Yes, we know...it's old news.

But a new contract, and less expectations isn't what I call overrated. Not anymore. At least you are willing to give him a half year to prove his $34 MIL contract to you!

Carl Herrera II ? Heh...I hope. :cool:

[tinman]

Originally posted by DavidS
Hey, tinman...I thought you were going to show us an article that didn't tie JH's $105 MIL contract to that infamous word: overrated!

Yes, we know...it's old news.

But a new contract, and less expectations isn't what I call overrated. Not anymore. At least you are willing to give him a half year to prove his $34 MIL contract to you!

Carl Herrera II ? Heh...I hope.

I'm glad to see Vin Baker is dethroning Juwan as most overrated player. however, Vin was a good player before he met the Gin and Juice. When Boston signed Vin Baker, I said to myself 'what idiots' I was correct. When the Rockets got Juwan I had a bad feeling in my stomach. I'm happy we have Mo Taylor tho just in case.

[DavidS]

Originally posted by tinman
I'm glad to see Vin Baker is dethroning Juwan as most overrated player. however, Vin was a good player before he met the Gin and Juice. When Boston signed Vin Baker, I said to myself 'what idiots' I was correct. When the Rockets got Juwan I had a bad feeling in my stomach. I'm happy we have Mo Taylor tho just in case.

Yes. I'm glad that we have the JH/MoT combo. Besides, I've always wanted him (and Mobley) coming off the bench. They give us that "spark" and offense we need; depth.

Vin Baker "choked" after everyone in Seattle pointed out his bad FT%. Too much to ask that he improve FTs? I guess it was...Vin is really messed up too ever since; drinking and depression.

Check out his FG% and FT% at Seattle. It's wacky; all over the place; up and down...

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/vin_baker/?nav=page

[Relativist]

I'm alright with Howard. But the combo of Howard and Taylor at PF is imbalanced. If we could do something like trade Taylor for a Kelvin Cato-type, even if overpaid, I'd feel much better about our 4-5 rotation.

[Swami]

Howard should be servicable. I think I remember reading that the Rockets insisted that Howard was part of the deal so they must think he will fit in ok.

He brings veteran experience and has been an iron man who has been relatively injury free (unlike Cato and Mo Taylor). This factor in and of itself should help JVG keep a consistent rotation. While he isn't a shot blocker, the other thing I like about Howard is he will foul you hard if you drive the lane. He seems a little more old school in this regard.

[blender]

Originally posted by Swami
Howard should be servicable. I think I remember reading that the Rockets insisted that Howard was part of the deal so they must think he will fit in ok.


Yeah but I wonder if they had a choice between keeping Cato or getting Howard, which they would go for.

[tinman]

Originally posted by blender
Yeah but I wonder if they had a choice between keeping Cato or getting Howard, which they would go for.
Im sure Orlando insisted on trading Juwan.
You just dont trade a person after 1 year unless you/he doesnt want to be on the team. ... Scottie Pippen

[Desert Scar]

Originally posted by Relativist
I'm alright with Howard. But the combo of Howard and Taylor at PF is imbalanced. If we could do something like trade Taylor for a Kelvin Cato-type, even if overpaid, I'd feel much better about our 4-5 rotation.

I don't think they are that imbalanced. Basically we should be able to run almost the identical sets with JH or MoT in there and keep one of them fresh at all times.

Both are poor defenders versus quicker 4s, but their offensive game should keep most players working on both ends, a big plus over Cato as a 4.

So I would like a back up defensive 5, but I feel pretty good about the 4 spot with JH/MoT and don't want to split that up. Thus to address the back-up 5, we should not trade MoT or JH to weaken our 4 spot, but add a FA or trade with the TE.

[pgabriel]

If Mo Taylor started his whole career he might be averaging 17 and 7 by now. think about that.











They're the same player.

[The Real Shady]

Juwan Howard reminds me a little of Walt Williams when he came over to the Rockets. A player who puts up decent numbers but is really not that good of a player.

I'm pulling for Howard now that he's in a Rocket uniform, but I've never cared much for his game.

[joolut]

Originally posted by pgabriel
If Mo Taylor started his whole career he might be averaging 17 and 7 by now. think about that.





They're the same player.

There is a reason that JH has started his whole career and that MoT would currently only start for 1 or 2 other teams in the West.

[tinman]

Originally posted by joolut
There is a reason that JH has started his whole career and that MoT would currently only start for 1 or 2 other teams in the West.

Mo Taylor > Juwan Howard

[xiki]

Originally posted by The Real Shady
Juwan Howard reminds me a little of Walt Williams when he came over to the Rockets. A player who puts up decent numbers but is really not that good of a player.

I'm pulling for Howard now that he's in a Rocket uniform, but I've never cared much for his game.

The Wizard was a great, great player -- a time or two a month. Whatever kept him from always being great is the yang from MJ's ying.

[GladiatoRowdy]

Originally posted by tinman
Mo Taylor > Juwan Howard

You do realize that the numbers show that your inequality is backwards.

[tinman]

Originally posted by andymoon
You do realize that the numbers show that your inequality is backwards.

mo taylor sucking meter : 40
juwan howard sucking meter: 100
shareef abul rahim:150

sucking meter measurement : complicated formula of how many games you win, your expectations, your salary, how many times you get traded, how many times your name shows up on the worst and overrated players list, and how many times you say 'im a good player on a bad team'

[xelloss12]

overrated and overpaid does not mean he is a bad player. Plus, Howard gets paid less than Mo.

[tinman]

Originally posted by xelloss12
overrated and overpaid does not mean he is a bad player. Plus, Howard gets paid less than Mo.
I'll be happy with Howard if can be as good as Chucky Brown.

[MemphisX]

Originally posted by joolut
There is a reason that JH has started his whole career and that MoT would currently only start for 1 or 2 other teams in the West.

Yeah because the teams JH has played on have been some of the worst in the NBA.

[DavidS]

Originally posted by MemphisX
Yeah because the teams JH has played on have been some of the worst in the NBA.

Then why will he start over MoT? :)

By the way, the Bullets were not the "worst." They were an up and coming team with two of the Fab-five (Webber and Howard). Their records were average (like the Rox recently). Howard's problem is just that he was just overpaid in a day that allowed such HUGE contracts. This is the thorn in his side.

Anyways...

If he plays like "Chucky Brown" most will be fine with him starting (and 32 MIL contract). He's more balanced than shot-happy MoT. And will offer more versatility than MoT (who hates to pass).

MoT's offense is better used coming off the bench anyways.

[Davidoff]

Originally posted by tinman
mo taylor sucking meter : 40
juwan howard sucking meter: 100
shareef abul rahim:150

sucking meter measurement : complicated formula of how many games you win, your expectations, your salary, how many times you get traded, how many times your name shows up on the worst and overrated players list, and how many times you say 'im a good player on a bad team'

HEHE, good to know it's a exact science...

[DavidS]

Originally posted by tinman
mo taylor sucking meter : 40
juwan howard sucking meter: 100
shareef abul rahim:150

sucking meter measurement : complicated formula of how many games you win, your expectations, your salary, how many times you get traded, how many times your name shows up on the worst and overrated players list, and how many times you say 'im a good player on a bad team'


Pretend that MoT got a $105 MIL contract....adjust that meter. Lets be fair.

mo taylor sucking meter = 200!

[GladiatoRowdy]

Originally posted by tinman
I'll be happy with Howard if can be as good as Chucky Brown.

Dude, you need to take a reality pill. JHow has averaged 17 and 7 for his career. The only time Chucky even smelled a double digit average, it was when Clyde kept feeding him the rock.

JHow may have been the most overpaid player in the league at one point, but he is not on that contract anymore. He makes less than MoT and is, IMO, considerably better.

Chucky Brown. :rolleyes:

[joolut]

Originally posted by MemphisX
Yeah because the teams JH has played on have been some of the worst in the NBA.

And as previously stated, he will START OVER MoT. What do you think that means?

[tinman]

Originally posted by andymoon
Dude, you need to take a reality pill. JHow has averaged 17 and 7 for his career. The only time Chucky even smelled a double digit average, it was when Clyde kept feeding him the rock.

JHow may have been the most overpaid player in the league at one point, but he is not on that contract anymore. He makes less than MoT and is, IMO, considerably better.

Chucky Brown. :rolleyes:

17 and 7?

you mean 17 losing seasons and 7 different teams?
or 17 games below .500 and 7 coaches being fired?
how about 17th worse player in the league and 7 game losing streaks?

[GladiatoRowdy]

Originally posted by tinman
17 and 7?

you mean 17 losing seasons and 7 different teams?
or 17 games below .500 and 7 coaches being fired?
how about 17th worse player in the league and 7 game losing streaks?

How about more points AND more rebounds than CB ever even smelled in his entire career. JHow may have been on some bad teams, but most of that is because he was expected to be THE MAN and he is just not that. JHow will be at BEST the third option and in that role he will excel.

Reality pill, stat!

[Deckard]

Originally posted by The Real Shady
Juwan Howard reminds me a little of Walt Williams when he came over to the Rockets. A player who puts up decent numbers but is really not that good of a player.

I'm pulling for Howard now that he's in a Rocket uniform, but I've never cared much for his game.
God, I hope not. Williams used to drive me crazy, as xiki pointed out, by having the occasional game that made you think he was really getting it going, and then... poof! You'd wonder where it went.

Howard is much more consistent. And he will give the occasional hard foul, something I didn't like about him when he played for someone else, but something we've needed on this team. Maybe he'll be a nice surprise and mesh perfectly.

Or maybe he'll be traded before the season starts.