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dEVIL
07-13-2004, 04:28 PM
HOUSTON -- Little has gone the Astros' way in the weeks since they acquired All-Star center fielder Carlos Beltran in the hopes of contending for the NL Central title.




More changes need to be made, and they may start with manager Jimy Williams.


Astros owner Drayton McLane and general manager Gerry Hunsicker will hold a front-office meeting Wednesday to discuss the status of Williams and his coaching staff, ESPN's Peter Gammons reports.


It is expected the Astros will make some changes, either getting rid of Williams or firing several coaches. If Williams is fired, Gammons reports the likely candidates for the job are former Tigers manager Phil Garner and former Rockies and Cubs manager Don Baylor, currently a coach with the Mets.


Speculation about Williams' job security intensified Monday, a day after the Astros (44-44) finished the first half of the season in fifth place in the Central and are 10½ games behind division leader St. Louis. It's the first time Houston has faced a double-digit deficit in the standings at the break in 11 seasons.


That's a remarkable disappointment for a team that was a preseason favorite to go to the World Series and led the division for the first month and a half of the season. The All-Star break couldn't have come at a better time for a slumping team, or a worse one for a manager on the hot seat.


"Maybe what this club needs is a little break," Williams, who is one of the NL All-Star team's coaches, said. "No, we're not getting the results that we want. We know that. We know where we are and what we have to do. Maybe we can get this thing turned around."


McLane and Hunsicker have publicly expressed support for the embattled manager, but their patience may be waning as the Astros chances of catching the Cardinals slowly slips away. St. Louis is 11 ahead in the loss column.


Williams has guided the Astros to two second-place finishes, losing the division race last season in the final week. Much more was expected this season with the free-agent signings of former Yankees teammates Roger Clemens and Andy Pettitte.


Houston has failed to deliver thus far.


"It's been very disappointing," Astros first baseman Jeff Bagwell said. "Obviously, we thought we'd be playing a lot better at this point than we are right now."


The Astros have been surprisingly punchless on offense, ranking only 19th in the majors in scoring. Their highly touted pitching staff has struggled as both Pettitte and Wade Miller have spent time on the disabled list. And Beltran hasn't been the quick fix they expected -- the All-Star center fielder is hitting .263.


Clemens acknowledged that the Astros' struggles have put a damper on his comeback from a 78-day "retirement."


"That's kind of your worst nightmare when you make these decisions," Clemens said. "Regardless if I'm playing well or not, I want to see smiles on the guys next to me. If you don't have a couple of guys coming along with you, you get the handshake and a pat on the back and you go home and watch the playoffs."


Hunsicker has repeatedly emphasized that the club has loaded up solely for an autumn finish -- Beltran is a free agent, Clemens was coaxed out of retirement, Jeff Kent and Craig Biggio are in the final years of their contracts and Bagwell is nearing the end of his career.


McLane quelled speculation earlier this week that he'd consider shipping Clemens, Beltran or anyone else before the July 31 trading deadline. The team held a players-only meeting last Tuesday, and Williams called another the next night as the rumors about his job escalated.


"It's frustrating that it's getting to a point where Jimy is getting criticized," Kent said.


Still, the Astros aren't completely out of it.


Houston is only 3½ games back in the race for a wild-card berth, and as the Florida Marlins proved during their run to the title last season, there's plenty of time left.


"We just have to regroup and turn it around," Biggio said. "The talent is good enough to do that. That's the difference between this team and some of the teams we had before."

HillBoy
07-13-2004, 04:33 PM
Dead Man Walking!

Gummi Clutch
07-13-2004, 04:33 PM
610 AM reports the meeting has already taken place and that changes will be made tomorrow 07/14/04

bigboymumu
07-13-2004, 04:44 PM
Wake up and smell the coffee Astros players! The season is over if we do not win now!

rezdawg
07-13-2004, 05:35 PM
Gammons just said on sportscenter that it is very likely that tomorrow by noon, the Astros will fire Jimy.

He gave it 9-1 odds.

PhiSlammaJamma
07-13-2004, 05:37 PM
ba bye.

VesceySux
07-13-2004, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by rezdawg
He gave it 9-1 odds.

More like 1-9 odds... :)

rezdawg
07-13-2004, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by VesceySux
More like 1-9 odds... :)

True...i think he meant 90% though.

studogg
07-13-2004, 05:50 PM
Jimmy "Greenmile" Williams. 'bout damn time.

Do WHAT?
07-13-2004, 06:10 PM
Don Baylor! "PLEASE"

Preston27
07-13-2004, 06:32 PM
Good-bye 1M

codell
07-13-2004, 06:33 PM
If Spillman gets canned too (which he probably will) ...........I hope to see Gaetti up here from AAA. :)

redgoose
07-13-2004, 06:36 PM
Hello Don Baylor!:)

bigboymumu
07-13-2004, 06:48 PM
It's going to be Phil Garner. He lives in Houston, he will be cheaper than Baylor.

Surfguy
07-13-2004, 07:06 PM
"It won't make any difference." - Newt from Aliens

:D

Raven
07-13-2004, 07:29 PM
It should have happened a month ago.

Fegwu
07-13-2004, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by studogg
Jimmy "Greenmile" Williams. 'bout damn time.


its Jimy.

Creepy Crawl
07-13-2004, 08:30 PM
ol 1M IS OUTTA HERE !!!!

Manny Ramirez
07-13-2004, 08:34 PM
"Manager's Decision"

Thank you, thank you - I am here all week.

Oski2005
07-13-2004, 08:38 PM
I'll be glad to get rid of JW, but jeeze, are Garner and Baylor our only choices? Niether of them has a .500 winning percentage. At least Baylor won manager of the year once.

rezdawg
07-13-2004, 09:13 PM
By the way, Gammons said that it will most likely be Garner as the replacement.

He said that he doubts the Mets would let Baylor go due to the hot streak they are on right now.

JPM0016
07-13-2004, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by rezdawg

He said that he doubts the Mets would let Baylor go due to the hot streak they are on right now.

The Mets have already said they would let Don Baylor go.

But i agree its gonna be Phil Garner. I think that decision has already been made

rezdawg
07-13-2004, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by JPM0016
The Mets have already said they would let Don Baylor go.

But i agree its gonna be Phil Garner. I think that decision has already been made

I believe the Mets just allowed Baylor to talk to the Astros.

edc
07-13-2004, 10:37 PM
One sourpuss Yankee down, one to go :)

Groogrux
07-13-2004, 11:27 PM
Jimy looked horrible at the game tonight. Bush league for idiots to boo him.

xiki
07-13-2004, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by rezdawg
By the way, Gammons said that it will most likely be Garner as the replacement.

He said that he doubts the Mets would let Baylor go due to the hot streak they are on right now.

Could the Mets, in good conscience, deny Baylor a managwerial opportunity?

Buck Turgidson
07-13-2004, 11:45 PM
Phil Garner has never, ever, shown the acumen to succeed as a MLB manager. His handling of pitchers was absolutely atrocious at both of his gigs, and he was roundly critisized by "sources in the clubhouse". One honest question, what has Garner been doing since he was fired by Los Tigres?

Baylor got to manage in Colorado ("I have an idea, let's play baseball 1 mile above sea level." "Baseball 1 mile above sea level, brilliant!"), and did as good a job , if not better, as could be expected. His Cub teams were atrocious - he had Sammy, Lieber, McGriff & a bunch of not much else. By all accounts he's one of the best guys out there as far as handling a clubhouse & relating to players, his strategy is well-thought-out, if not always conventional (but armchair managers & talk radio morons would second guess the ghost of Casey Stengel if the got the chance).

Unless, ala McKeon, they can coax Sparky Anderson out of retirement for 3 months...

Smokey
07-13-2004, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by Rocketman95
Jimy looked horrible at the game tonight. Bush league for idiots to boo him.

Outstanding.

Buck Turgidson
07-13-2004, 11:49 PM
Originally posted by Rocketman95
Jimy looked horrible at the game tonight. Bush league for idiots to boo him.
"Fans".

Yeah right.

Groogrux
07-13-2004, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by Buck Turgidson
"Fans".

Yeah right.

Just like the one that posted right above you.

It takes real men to kick a man when he's down. :rolleyes:

Smokey
07-13-2004, 11:53 PM
I'm sure it can be argued he deserved better than to be booed at the all-star game at his home park in his last appearance in an Astros uniform, but you know what, people pay for tickets and can voice their displeasure. It's not like Jimy's a volunteer or a college kid.

Buck Turgidson
07-13-2004, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by Smokey
Ibut you know what, people pay for tickets and can voice their displeasure.
And their ignorance.

rezdawg
07-13-2004, 11:59 PM
Fans booing Jimy was wrong. I dont like the guy as the Astros manager, but come on...that was just horrible. I was embarassed watching that.

Smokey
07-14-2004, 12:31 AM
I don't think Jimy got booed because fans feel he is solely responsible for the team's underachievement. I think he got booed out of frustration just like Drayton the night before. The players? The players probably get booed too...maybe not tonight maybe not as much as management. If you feel its unfair for the players to get a free pass while they're more responsible for the team's underachievement, that's life. Management (especially the manager) always gets scapegoated.

BMoney
07-14-2004, 12:38 AM
I agree with Rocketman95. I think the fans booing Jimy was pretty lame. He probably needs to be fired just to make a change, but I think booing him was classless.

codell
07-14-2004, 09:24 AM
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/2679958

JDJO thinks Jimy is out and Garner is in.

Also looks like Jimy locked himself in his office last night until the media left!! lol

poor jimy

Blatz
07-14-2004, 09:32 AM
I felt bad for Jimy last night and don't like the guy.

It was an All Star game, it was suppose to be a fun night for everyone involved. I bet he couldn't wait for the night to end.

ron413
07-14-2004, 10:00 AM
...Here is an insider post from the official Astros MLB.COM Message Board. Press conference this afternoon...
______________________________________________________
WELCOME ....PHIL GARNER...
From: jasperastro 8:31 am
To: ALL

Got inside source on press conference today, 3:00pm or 4:00pm.
Rumors will hold true, Jimy will be gone, Spillman gone, pending Baylors decision.

Source inside clubhouse, 99.9% reliable.
Possibility of Baylor, Head coach...50-50. Garner 100%/
Watch and see....Bye Bye Jimy....


http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=ml-astros&msg=19314.1&ctx=0

RocketManJosh
07-14-2004, 10:17 AM
Yeah I felt really bad for Jimy out there last night. It's a tough situation to be standing out there as a lame duck. It was very low brow of the fans to boo him especially if they knew he was about to be fired.

I think he is a very classy guy and a good baseball man, but the bottom line is that the team needs a change and I think even he might understand that. I hope he gets another shot somewhere else down the line.

ron413
07-14-2004, 10:22 AM
To add to my insider post above: Here is part 2 for you lazy folks who do not like to visit any other website that this #1 first class website that we have here...

From: jasperastro 11:07 am


This info came from a person who regularly cleans the clubhouse, beer cans, trash cans, and gets inside info by accident. Jimys desk is clean as of last night.

Talk in the clubhouse is open and non speculative, and looks like bags are packed for two on the staff, so my informant tells me....more updates to come....jas....
http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=ml-astros&msg=19314.3&ctx=0

Groogrux
07-14-2004, 10:26 AM
Ugh. Garner is a step sideways at best. Come on Baylor!

MadMax
07-14-2004, 10:29 AM
official...he's fired

garner in

press conference at 1

Austin70
07-14-2004, 10:30 AM
Official?

Blatz
07-14-2004, 10:30 AM
1pm press conference phil is in. Just reported on 610

codell
07-14-2004, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by MadMax
official...he's fired

garner in

press conference at 1

Where is the news coming from?

Groogrux
07-14-2004, 10:32 AM
Gross. I'll give him a chance, but not much of one. Hopefully this is just a filler for the rest of the season.

MadMax
07-14-2004, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by codell
Where is the news coming from?

610

Blatz
07-14-2004, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by codell
Where is the news coming from?

Sprots radio 610 as breaking news

Blatz
07-14-2004, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by Rocketman95
... Hopefully this is just a filler for the rest of the season.

I think that's what they said.

Smokey
07-14-2004, 10:36 AM
He should be interim until the end of the season when the Astros can interview from a larger pool. But knowing the Astros they probably hired him permanent.

Smokey
07-14-2004, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by RocketManJosh
Yeah I felt really bad for Jimy out there last night. It's a tough situation to be standing out there as a lame duck. It was very low brow of the fans to boo him especially if they knew he was about to be fired.


Perhaps if the Astros had officially announced a managerial change, Jimy would have gotten a better response. I feel bad if he took it personal, IMO it was more frustration towards the Astros season, Jimy (and Drayton) took the brunt of it.

MadMax
07-14-2004, 10:50 AM
jimy is a great baseball guy with over 900 wins. i'm sad to see him go, frankly.