All-Star Break Discussions

[Castor27]

THought I would open up a new thread so that the Dodger thread doesn't become 90 pages over the next few days.

If Jimy Williams is fired over the break I will not be surprised or disappointed. I think this team needs something to jolyt it out of the current funk.

CK

[Preston27]

Berkman added to the HR derby, Beltran to the ASG, I may just watch them.

This team needs a fire lit under them. I say fire Jimy and Spielman and get suitable replacements, and if that isn't working by the deadline break em up. See if Clemens will accept a deal to the Yankees, get a good prospect or two out of that, trade Kent for more prospects, beg Bagwell to retire this offseason, trade Miller for prospects, re-sign Beltran.

I just feel if it's not going to happen this year, we should make our future bright. I can handle a few losing seasons, but with Oswalt, Beltran, Berkman, Pettitte, Burke, Lidge, Everett, and Ensberg(if he gets his power back), we will have a good core to work with.

[Agent27]

If we blew up the team, might has well trade Beltran too. His agent wants "ARod" money. So ...

1) The Astros won't offer enough and we lose him anyway

or

2) We pay Beltran a buttload and can't afford to put a decent supporting cast around him, maybe not being able to play for Oswalt and Berkman either.

If we do fire Jimmy and the team turns around and stays in the Wild Card race then we obviously continue to rent Beltran for the season. If we continue to suck though then we should trade Beltran and Kent since neither will probably return next season anyway.

[rockets-#1]

This team needs to go on a winning streak in the worst way - like the 15 game or so streak the Orioles had several years back. I've never seen a bigger team of underachievers. Fire Jimy and decapitate Weathers.

[Furious Jam]

Originally posted by Castor27
If Jimy Williams is fired over the break I will not be surprised or disappointed. I think this team needs something to jolyt it out of the current funk.

Firing Jimy would allow us to make up a couple of games in the standings, as our in-game strategy would automatically improve (no matter who is made manager in his place - no one could do worse).

But the only way to turn this team around is to move Lane or Lamb in at 1st, and that ain't going to happen.

[whag00]

With the Astros playing mediocre ball it has really put a damper on what could have and should have been an exciting all-star break...

[hjg877]

Okay, IF the Astros realize that there is no hope left (remember the A's of 2 years ago? IT COULD HAPPEN!), ideally, as unfortunate as it may seem, Houston will become the ultimate trading block.

Again, ideally this team could get 'maximum' value from:
Trading Clemens to a contendor in the AL (Boston would be the best choice imo and would be a bittersweet return to the club where it all started, especially since the Yankee <s>idiots</s> fans hate him for 'betrayal', although he would never do it. Also, NY has NO prospects so I can't see how that would be suitable)

I do like the package-Bagwell-with-Clemens-to-an-AL-contendor speculations. Probably won't happen, but prospects (a catcher for the future please!) are always good.

If the Astros ARE willing to make a trade, Beltran HAS to go! It's sad and unfortunate, as I think he's the best player to put on an Astros uniform since, well, hard to say, even in such short time. If he ain't winning here, he won't even consider signing here. A deal HAS to be made for the sake of the future!

Kent is a possibility. I don't think he is that great anymore, but his name is valuable so talent could be had. I'm thinking a place like Cincy would be a good fit, at least for a little while.

And Weathers. Oh god please get rid of him!


Does anyone else think the whole trading Hidalgo to the Mets has something to do with Hunsicker's ties to that club? I SMELL CONSPIRACY! ;)

No but really, if you're freaking major league hitting coach and it's your job to help players, how the f is it that nobody noticed the wrist imperfection in Hidalgo's swing!!?!? Does this club not watch video?!?? It's sickingly pathetic.

Anyway, this team should be built around Berkman, Oswalt, Pettitte, Miller, Ensberg, and Everett. Add a couple of black people and then everyone will be happy for years to come. :D

[rocketfat]

man, how do you guys not even MENTION ausmus. he is far and away the worst player on our team and the biggest problem with our lineup for the past 2 years (although bagwell is putting in a strong push recently).

i cringe and get stressed out at the site of ausmus at the plate.

[hjg877]

Originally posted by rocketfat
man, how do you guys not even MENTION ausmus. he is far and away the worst player on our team and the biggest problem with our lineup for the past 2 years (although bagwell is putting in a strong push recently).

i cringe and get stressed out at the site of ausmus at the plate.

Well give me credit; I did at least ask for a future catcher. :D

I think he's on the back burner since Astros fans havent had to expect much from the 2 position in 7 or so years. And what other teams would want or need him? I know he's an above-average defensive player, but still.

I would love to see one of the Molina brothers on this team though.

[Agent27]

Originally posted by rocketfat
man, how do you guys not even MENTION ausmus. he is far and away the worst player on our team and the biggest problem with our lineup for the past 2 years (although bagwell is putting in a strong push recently).

i cringe and get stressed out at the site of ausmus at the plate.

And unfortunately what used to be one of his biggest assests (abillity to throw out baserunners) has comletely gone in the crapper the past 3 years.

He's throwing out 30% of basestealers this season compared to 35% last year, and 32% in 2002. The three previous years have were 47%, 47%, and 37%.

Also, in his first stint with the 'Stros and then with the Tigers he had a .270 BA. Since he's come back he's been around .235 every season.

He had a nice solid run from '97 - '00 but since then he's been absolute crap.

[redgoose]

We already have a good catcher in the wings. Hector Gimenez.

Thought of as one of Houston’s best prospects. Ranked No. 6 in the organization by Baseball America. Hit .247 for Class A Salem in 2003, while also throwing out 38.9 percent of base runners. Was named the team’s Defensive Player of the Month for June and Offensive Player of the Month in May. Was a South Atlantic League All-Star for Class A Lexington in 2002. Hit .263 with 11 home runs for the Legends. Played for the Venezuelan Summer League Astros in 2001 where he was named an All-Star. Hit .278 with 34 RBI in 42 games there

http://roundrockexpress.com/team/?id=605

[hjg877]

Originally posted by redgoose
We already have a good catcher in the wings. Hector Gimenez.

Hit .247 for Class A Salem in 2003, while also throwing out 38.9 percent of base runners. Hit .263 with 11 home runs for the Legends. Played for the Venezuelan Summer League Astros in 2001 where he was named an All-Star. Hit .278 with 34 RBI in 42 games there

Well, I hope so, but those number (in A ball) don't sound too exciting to me, regardless if he's just a catcher or not.

I can't calssify those number as 'good', but then again this is the first I've ever heard of him. I expect to hear more of this guy in the near future then.

[HillBoy]

Originally posted by Furious Jam
Firing Jimy would allow us to make up a couple of games in the standings, as our in-game strategy would automatically improve (no matter who is made manager in his place - no one could do worse).

But the only way to turn this team around is to move Lane or Lamb in at 1st, and that ain't going to happen.
That's the one thing that irks me as well. Bagwell needs to be benched but they'll never do it because they have so much respect for what he's done in the past and all. And while it's good to honor a guy for his past service, sooner or later you find yourself in the situation that they find themselves in now: another wasted season with a team going nowhere. Bagwell is no longer the type of player who can help them out of this slump because his game appears to be in a state of decline. His BA is still respectable but he no longer gets the runs home.

[leroy420]

Here's what I think needs to be done to have a shot at the playoffs ...

1. Jimy has to go, period. Spillman AND Lamont should be right behind. There is no fire to this team. I know that the hitting is the main culprit and Jimy can't make them hit. However, he does nothing to help. Spillman obviously caters to the veterans on the team and simply trusts that they know what they are doing. Lamont has to go because he is a Jimy clone and would not be able to do anything more to help.

2. Hire Don Baylor or Phil Garner and call Gary Gaetti up from New Orleans as hitting coach.

3. Whomever is the new manager needs to get a set lineup. No more of this changing it around every day. I know many of you will disagree with me, but Bagwell is best suited for the 3 hole. He will come out of this funk. let Beltran go back to his more natural spot as the 2 with Kent and Berkman interchangeable at 4 & 5.

4. Give Raul Chavez more playing time. We all know Ausmus cannot hit but that he WAS a great defensive catcher. This year he couldn't stop my dead grandmother from stealing 2nd. He isn't blocking balls in the dirt like he used to. He is simply becoming useless by the day. Chavez ain't a great hitter, either. However, he plays with unbelievable fire, kind of like if Jose Lima played catcher. He's got a good arm (I believe he has picked at least 2 off of 2nd!).

5. Don't worry about the division. The goal is simply to get to the playoffs. We are still about 4 games out of the WC. Worry about passing the Brewers. Then, worry about catching the Reds and Cubs one at a time. There are plenty of intradivisional games left. The opportunity is there. Win at home, split on the road.

Anything is still possible. A 2000 like second half tear is possible. This is going to be an interesting week in Astroland.

[Buck Turgidson]

I found out on Saturday that I'm moving to Costa Rica for the foreseeable future.

The trials & tribulations of the Astros don't seem so important anymore. :D

[bobrek]

Originally posted by leroy420

3. Whomever is the new manager needs to get a set lineup. No more of this changing it around every day. I know many of you will disagree with me, but Bagwell is best suited for the 3 hole. He will come out of this funk. let Beltran go back to his more natural spot as the 2 with Kent and Berkman interchangeable at 4 & 5.



It is interesting to note, that, so far this year Bagwell has hit best 3rd in the lineup, Kent 4th and Berkman 5th. Beltran hit 2nd in KC. It is beyond me as to why Williams made the batting order changes he has made (Kent's injury nothwithstanding). Granted, there is not enough of a sample, but why change the entire order to enable Beltran to hit 3rd, when he was hitting 2nd?

[rrj_gamz]

I think JW is gone...It may be the best move to jump some life into them...

[Groogrux]

Originally posted by Buck Turgidson
I found out on Saturday that I'm moving to Costa Rica for the foreseeable future.

The trials & tribulations of the Astros don't seem so important anymore. :D

I hate you.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by Buck Turgidson
I found out on Saturday that I'm moving to Costa Rica for the foreseeable future.

The trials & tribulations of the Astros don't seem so important anymore. :D

seriously???

[Buck Turgidson]

Yep. Maybe just for 2-3 months, maybe I stay & become a professional surf bum...who knows?

[Groogrux]

Originally posted by Buck Turgidson
Yep. Maybe just for 2-3 months, maybe I stay & become a professional surf bum...who knows?

You can't do that. Who's money will I take in poker?

[Buck Turgidson]

Yeah, and who's going to front you the buy in?

[MadMax]

Originally posted by Buck Turgidson
Yep. Maybe just for 2-3 months, maybe I stay & become a professional surf bum...who knows?

i'd be sorry to see you go...but it sounds like a lot of fun!

[Groogrux]

Originally posted by Buck Turgidson
Yeah, and who's going to front you the buy in?

Touchizzle. I guess I got the rest of the bums I took money from as well, minus Roberto.

[Buck Turgidson]

Yeah, that was good cards all the way around. We'll try to do that again before I go.

[Buck Turgidson]

Thanks, Max.

[Groogrux]

Originally posted by Buck Turgidson
Yeah, that was good cards all the way around. We'll try to do that again before I go.

Well, I wouldn't know about the first game.

Note to self: Don't sit down on someone's couch to read Maxim after a day of drunken debauchery at BW3 and the pool. The room will spin again.

[killtaker]

I'm going out on a limb saying Jimy Williams is gone. Phil Garner is in as interim manager. Astros going after Don Baylor when the timing is right. They're just suppressing the stuff until after the All-Star festivities.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by killtaker
I'm going out on a limb saying Jimy Williams is gone. Phil Garner is in as interim manager. Astros going after Don Baylor when the timing is right. They're just suppressing the stuff until after the All-Star festivities.

going out on a limb??? or listening to sportsradio?? :D

[NJRocket]

Clemens and Bags for Giambi and prospects

[Groogrux]

Originally posted by NJRocket
Clemens and Bags for Giambi and prospects

No thanks.

[RocketManJosh]

Originally posted by Rocketman95
No thanks.

ditto

[RocketManJosh]

By the way ...

I'm listening to San Diego radio today and they are just raving about how great Houston is (despite the weather) and how they would love for more major events to be held there.

Great job Houston! Wish I could have been there.

[Groogrux]

Originally posted by RocketManJosh
By the way ...

I'm listening to San Diego radio today and they are just raving about how great Houston is (despite the weather) and how they would love for more major events to be held there.

Great job Houston! Wish I could have been there.

Really? That's good to hear. I love the publicity the city's getting.

I'll be representing us tonight at the game! Woohoo!!!

[Austin70]

A little off the subject, but how easy or hard is it to get cheaper tickets on a game that is not sold out and moving down below to better seats?

[killtaker]

Originally posted by MadMax
going out on a limb??? or listening to sportsradio?? :D

sports radio 610? when? i didn't hear it. is it confirmed?

[NJRocket]

Originally posted by Rocketman95
No thanks.

Seeing as how we are 10 1/2 games out of first, you wouldn't trade away 2 guys...1 of who won;t be around next yr and the other (bags) who shouldn't for Jason Giambi and prospects?

[MadMax]

Originally posted by killtaker
sports radio 610? when? i didn't hear it. is it confirmed?

they just spent a lot of the morning talking about hiring garner to finish out the season...that's the hot rumor.

[Groogrux]

Originally posted by NJRocket
Seeing as how we are 10 1/2 games out of first, you wouldn't trade away 2 guys...1 of who won;t be around next yr and the other (bags) who shouldn't for Jason Giambi and prospects?

No. For one thing, we're still only 4.5 games out of the playoffs with 74 to play. Too soon to give up. Also, since he's had to stop using steroids, Giambi's sucked. If we were going to move those guys, I'd want it to be for another OF so that Berkman or Lane could take over at first. Plus, adding Giambi's salary will ensure that we won't sign Beltran, even though I grant that keeping him is a longshot.

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally posted by Rocketman95
Really? That's good to hear. I love the publicity the city's getting.
You mean like this (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/allstar04/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=1838739)? ;)

Astros broadcast legend Milo Hamilton didn't even get Tejada's name right until his final half-dozen swings of the night. (Te-hay-day, Te-had-da. Aw, whatever.)

I, for one, am shocked.

[KaiSeR SoZe]

I wish I was there! I wanna see Muhammad Ali!

[Surfguy]

I can't believe the guy won that $1 million. He was throwing some slop there but he did it! That hole was so big, though. That was easy money if you have anyone up there who can just throw a ball. Hell, this guy did it and he had quite a few wild pitches. Maybe he was nervous. Congrats Taco Bell dude!

[keeley]

Imagine the high-fiving dilemma fans would have faced if old Moises Alourinehands was starting.

[Surfguy]

Well, Ali didn't throw the ball. I don't know why I thought he would? Ali still has some boxing moves. He was shaking from his Parkinson's disease but he would stop when he did some boxing moves. It was good to see him there. The crowd started chanting "Ali" for a bit there.

[codell]

Ali was awesome!!! shadow boxing!!!! and with Jeter!!!

heh
heh


I WILL ALWAYS remember that

[The Real Shady]

I could have sworn I saw Piazza give away the sign to Ichiro. That would be one way for him to get Clemens back.

[KaiSeR SoZe]

Clemens is out of it

[KaiSeR SoZe]

what the hell am I watching?

[The Real Shady]

Manny HR. I'm telling you, Piazza is giving away Clemens pitches.

[Surfguy]

Roger setting the tone for the Astros' second half of the season.

This sucks!

:D

[drapg]

ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch!

[DarkHorse]

Is there a chat going on by chance? I'm stuck at work and can't get the game.

There's not an online radio link is there?

[KaiSeR SoZe]

:mad: :mad: :mad:

[JPM0016]

:eek:

6-0

[codell]

wow

6-0

If this doesn't typify the Astros season, then I don't know what would.

[Remix]

Wow, Clemens is being man handles by the american league.

[H-Town Info]

poor clemens

6 er, thats terrible

[Austin70]

3 earned runs for Roger, that sounds better.

[pgabriel]

I don't want to see Ali shaking on my T.V. just like I don't want to see Michael J. Fox. Its just sad. I would rather remember them the way they were when they were healthy. Running that guy out is like asking Reagan to speak at Republican event after he got full blown Alzhimer's. It serves no purpose. Sorry. That's just how I feel.

[DarkHorse]

Originally posted by Austin70
3 earned runs for Roger, that sounds better.

Yeah... an ERA of 27.0 is downright respectable!

[drapg]

woo hoo... berkman made a routine pop up catch in the outfield.

I was waiting for him to trip over his own left foot.

[Buck Turgidson]

Amen, pgab. That was difficult to watch.

[Groogrux]

Clemens starts first half off hot, we're 44-44. Clemens starts second half off horrible, we finish in the playoffs. :)

[ron413]

Wednesday, July 14, 2004
Garner good fit for veteran Astros

By Tony Gwynn
Special to ESPN Insider


I don't know if firing Jimy Williams is the right move for the Houston Astros, but the move doesn't surprise me. Heading into the All-Star break, Houston clearly didn't play well, losing six of eight games to drop to .500.

The Astros went into the season thinking World Series, but they find themselves in fifth place in the six-team NL Central, 10½ games behind the first-place St. Louis Cardinals. Houston is 4½ back in the NL wild-card race.

New manager Phil Garner might be just what the doctor ordered. His lunch-pail work ethic should mix fine with the veteran-dominated Astros. I played against teams that Garner played for (Astros) and managed (Brewers), so I know about his no-nonsense approach and commitment to winning.

Phil Garner has managed the Brewers and Tigers, with a career winning percentage of .469.
There's no question that Garner will bring an attitude to Houston. He'll keep the fire burning. He expects his players to bust their butts everyday. No ballplayer wants to see his manager get fired, but I think the Astros will respond to Garner.

And I honestly believe they can get it going in the second half. Offensively, they've struggled with runners in scoring position, so that would be a good place to start in the improvement department.

Outfielders Lance Berkman and Craig Biggio are having good years, but Houston needs other guys to contribute more than they did in the first half. The contributions of third baseman Morgan Ensberg, shortstop Adam Everett and catcher Brad Ausmus are key. Pre-break pickup Carlos Beltran can really help Houston in the second half, too.

Another second-half key is staying injury-free. First baseman Jeff Bagwell is banged up, and his shoulder probably will bother him the rest of the season. Second baseman Kent has missed some games. Starter Andy Pettitte has spent time on the disabled list.

The edge for the Astros is definitely their pitching. I expect their quality pitching -- including Cy Young candidate Roger Clemens -- to keep them in the playoff hunt. They need someone, though, to step up as the setup man now that Brad Lidge is the closer. It could be David Weathers, recently acquired from the New York Mets for Richard Hidalgo.

Lidge was the setup man for closer Octavio Dotel until Dotel was dealt to the Oakland Athletics in the three-team Beltran trade.

By the way, if Houston's manager move doesn't get the Astros back on track soon, don't be surprised to see them make some player moves before the trade deadline.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=gwynn_tony&id=1839811

[RocketManJosh]

I've heard in multiple places the Rumor that Nomar might be going to the Cubs for Prospects, and the Sox would trade those prospects to AZ for Randy Johnson.

... Man that would make the Wild Card that much tougher to win if they got a shortstop like Nomar

[NJRocket]

Originally posted by RocketManJosh
I've heard in multiple places the Rumor that Nomar might be going to the Cubs for Prospects, and the Sox would trade those prospects to AZ for Randy Johnson.

... Man that would make the Wild Card that much tougher to win if they got a shortstop like Nomar

I also read that the Cubs were looking at Orlando Cabrera.

[RocketManJosh]

Originally posted by NJRocket
I also read that the Cubs were looking at Orlando Cabrera.

Oy! wouldn't it be nice to be 3.5 games ahead of the Cubs right about now? I'm not giving up, but this thing really isn't looking good. Time to get on tear Astros!