The Astros just plain suck

[DaDakota]

Yep,

I said it.

They just don't play with passion, they don't do the little things to win ball games and surprisingly, they don't do the smart things either.

The Bags and Biggio era should end....now, they have led the team nowhere.

This team is simply dead.

DD

[JBIIRockets]

I'm getting tired of Berkman killing rallys. He's one of the Astros best players, but he does not get enough meaningful hits.

[tigereye]

I agree.

With all this talent, this team SHOULD be in first place, not nine games back.

The Bags and Bidge era should end now.....as we've canned managers in favor of these guys and it has got us no where. The problem now has to lie with the (so-called) team leaders

But the question is......if we send Bags and Bidge packing, what the hell are we gonna do with those “ohh so glorious” statues of them outside MMP?

I say someone deface those mofo statues of Bags and Bidge. Burn those damn b*tches to the ground!!!!!!

Maybe then they will get the picture that there no longer wanted in town, thus forcing a trade for some good prospects in return.

Then we would have the space to resign Carlos Beltran, who deserves the money.

[Glish21]

its unbelievable how underachieving they are, and it makes no sense. They have everything needed except maybe a bullpen, but that still doesn't explain no run support. they really do just plain suck.

[DaDakota]

No passion, no fire, it seems they are sleep walking.

Management goes out and gets Petitt and Clemens and this is how the team responds.

Ugh !!

DD

[rezdawg]

This team is horrible.

I cant wait for football and basketball season.

F the astros.

No passion, no energy, no will to win. F!

F!
F!
F!
F!

[rezdawg]

F!

[bottlerocket]

Originally posted by JBIIRockets
I'm getting tired of Berkman killing rallys. He's one of the Astros best players, but he does not get enough meaningful hits.

Money Bags is the one who kills rallys. You can bank on him hitting to short or flying out to first. He is Mr. Upper-Cut.
Baggs should bunt b/c he is going to hit into an out anyway might as well advance the runner.

[MadMax]

i understand the frustration with bagwell....but what has biggio done to disappoint this season? he's arguably one of the best values in baseball this season. at $4 million he now is batting around .310 with 13 homers and 36 RBIs from the leadoff position. good luck getting that kind of production from anyone else in a leadoff role. particularly for under $5 million.

as with bagwell...the guy is just hurt. he's a shadow of his former self, and it's clear he knows it. i doubt seriously he'll play baseball next season.

[randerson153]

Originally posted by MadMax
i understand the frustration with bagwell....but what has biggio done to disappoint this season? he's arguably one of the best values in baseball this season. at $4 million he now is batting around .310 with 13 homers and 36 RBIs from the leadoff position. good luck getting that kind of production from anyone else in a leadoff role. particularly for under $5 million.

as with bagwell...the guy is just hurt. he's a shadow of his former self, and it's clear he knows it. i doubt seriously he'll play baseball next season.

I agree. Biggio is a pleasant surprise this season. If someone would have asked me who would have the better year before the season started out of Bagwell or Biggio, I would have picked Bagwell. It seems like Biggio is the only watchable player right now besides Clemens and Beltran.

[dskillz]

Originally posted by DaDakota
No passion, no fire, it seems they are sleep walking.

Management goes out and gets Petitt and Clemens and this is how the team responds.

Ugh !!

DD

I agree. Biggio has come to play this season, but for the most part no one else has. Now Beltran has been infected by the Astros virus as well. Time to platoon Bagwell and let younger players get some experience because this season is done.

The ultimate slap in the face will be when we trade Roger and Carlos to a contender because this team has underachieved so badly.

[dwil8686]

Originally posted by JBIIRockets
I'm getting tired of Berkman killing rallys. He's one of the Astros best players, but he does not get enough meaningful hits.

He learned from Biggio and Bagwell. Biggio's great before the sixth inning and Bagwell's great only if the game's already out of reach one way or the other.

[gunn]

Originally posted by dskillz
The ultimate slap in the face will be when we trade Roger and Carlos to a contender because this team has underachieved so badly.

It's rumored that Roger will agree to waive his no-trade clause.

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally posted by gunn
It's rumored that Roger will agree to waive his no-trade clause.
Rumors started by the NY Post ("Kerry picks Gephardt") and picked up by "Mike & Mike" in NY this week.

I'd take that for what it's worth.

[gunn]

Originally posted by Buck Turgidson
Rumors started by the NY Post ("Kerry picks Gephardt") and picked up by "Mike & Mike" in NY this week.

I'd take that for what it's worth.

Actually this rumor came from the Daily News.

[Buck Turgidson]

Whichever. Speculation is the same, no matter what paper it's in.

[gunn]

Originally posted by Buck Turgidson
Whichever. Speculation is the same, no matter what paper it's in.

Speculation is speculation. This is rumored. There's a difference, and no one here is proclaiming this as truth.

[Surfguy]

The Astros are a bunch of pre-madonna wankers!

:D

[deepellumrocket]

Originally posted by Surfguy
The Astros are a bunch of pre-madonna wankers!

:D

Pre-madonna?

What does this mean? Before Borderline? Old Testament?

[JPM0016]

i'm sure Clemens wants to leave his family for 3 months :rolleyes:

[Buck Turgidson]

But what is being rumored *is* speculation. ;)

[gunn]

Originally posted by Buck Turgidson
But what is being rumored *is* speculation. ;)

No, not really. The speculation is that he would play for the Yankees, and the rumor is that he will agree to opt out of his no-trade clause.

[Mr. Clutch]

Originally posted by JPM0016
i'm sure Clemens wants to leave his family for 3 months :rolleyes:

Let's remember that this is the guy who said he wanted to be closer to his family and then signed with Toronto. He's also the guy who said he wanted to retire to spend time with his family and then signed with the Astros. I wouldn't be surprised if this was true.

[gunn]

Originally posted by JPM0016
i'm sure Clemens wants to leave his family for 3 months :rolleyes:

Exactly, it's only for three months, and if it happens to be true, Arlington is certainly a viable place for Roger to land.

[droxford]

When I was at a game against the Pirates...

In the seventh inning, we walked a batter to fill the bases and then pitched to a player who had a better batting average. Does that sound smart to you? Me either. The guy cranked it out of the park for a grand slam. We lost.

That, right there, was a strategic failure. A coaching failure. I've seen Jimy do this too many times. He's the core of our problems.

-- droxford

[JPM0016]

Originally posted by Mr. Clutch
Let's remember that this is the guy who said he wanted to be closer to his family and then signed with Toronto. He's also the guy who said he wanted to retire to spend time with his family and then signed with the Astros. I wouldn't be surprised if this was true.

He doesn't have to go on roadtrips if he's not pitching. He's gotta a lot of leeway with us. I don't see it happening.

Also you've gotta factor in the business side of it. Why would Drayton trade the one guy who sells out the park each start, especially to a team like New York who has no farm system.

I guess this was the article where it orignated

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/210384p-181323c.html

Unit contends he'd
prefer trade to Yanks

By BILL MADDEN
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Randy Johnson tells D-Backs he's open to trade to contender.

Very quietly, Randy Johnson has told the Arizona Diamondbacks that he would waive his no-trade clause in order to pitch out his final years for a contender, most preferably the Yankees, the Daily News has learned.
And apparently, it is becoming a similar case with another 40-year-old future Hall of Famer - Roger Clemens - in Houston.

"When Randy got his 4,000th strikeout the other night and still came up a 3-2 loser, it was a very frustrating experience for him, and that's what convinced him that maybe he should look toward going to a contender," a source familiar with Johnson's thinking told the Daily News last night. "It's the same thing with Clemens, who's pitching for a team that's going nowhere. Why do you think these two guys are pitching? Neither of them has anything to prove. They're going to the Hall of Fame. They don't need the money. At this point in their careers, all they want to do is to win, and in the case of both of them, the Yankees are their team of preference because they represent the best chance of going to the World Series for them."

This is the good news for the Yankees. The bad news is neither Arizona general partner Jerry Colangelo nor Astros owner Drayton McLane has revealed a willingness to trade his marquee pitcher, and neither of them has any great affection for George Steinbrenner.

Perhaps further thwarting the Yankees' efforts to land either Johnson or Clemens is the fact that other potential big-market suitors - the Angels, Cubs and Dodgers - have considerably more quality prospects for trade purposes than the Yankees do.

Johnson, who is 10-6 with a 2.90 ERA, is owed another $24million for the remainder of this year and next, which is one advantage for the Yankees, who have unlimited financial resources when it comes to these sorts of trading-deadline deals.

According to a report in the Providence Journal quoting unnamed sources, Johnson has said that he would be willing to go to an East Coast team, but that the Yankees would be far more preferable to him than the Red Sox. The quiet, introverted Johnson and outspoken Red Sox righthander Curt Schilling were never especially close during their time together as the twin aces of the Diamondbacks rotation that was largely responsible for beating the Yankees in the 2001 World Series.

"There's been a lot of speculation that Randy wouldn't want to leave his home and pitch for an East Coast team that trains in Florida (in the spring)," another source told The News last night. "That's not true. At this point, his sole purpose for pitching is to be with a team with a chance to win. And even though the Diamondbacks are his home, they can't provide that."

The Yankees, who are already under scrutiny from commissioner Bud Selig over potential tampering charges regarding Johnson after Steinbrenner talked openly about him last week, were seemingly caught off-guard by this latest development.

"This is the first we've heard of anything like this," a high-ranking Yankee official said. "We don't know anything about it."

Both Johnson and Clemens thought they were going to happily end their careers pitching at home. But both the Diamondbacks and Astros have become non-contenders, even before the All-Star break. Johnson's Diamondbacks are in last place in the NL West, while Clemens' Astros are fifth in the Central, even after their much-ballyhooed acquisition of superstar center fielder Carlos Beltran last month.

The Yankees have made no secret of their interest in Johnson. Their recent rotation woes would indicate their need to acquire a quality frontline starter, and Clemens - who is likely to start the All-Star Game - would certainly fit that bill as well. Furthermore, his decision to unretire and pitch for his hometown Astros, along with fellow ex-Yankee Andy Pettitte, did not cause any ill will with Steinbrenner.

One potential factor in the Yankees' favor is the fact that the Diamondbacks, who are strapped with considerable financial problems from long-term contracts, need to trade Johnson despite Colangelo's statements to the contrary.

Originally published on July 9, 2004

[Surfguy]

Originally posted by deepellumrocket
Pre-madonna?

What does this mean? Before Borderline? Old Testament?

It was a joke. Instead of prima donna, I went with pre-maddona as in before Madonna came into the music scene we had a bunch of wankers who didn't know what to do with themselves cause there was noone like Madonna then they could lust after. I was classifying the Astros into that category. LOL.

However, if you want to put prima donna in my comments instead, then that will work just as well. :D

[bigboymumu]

PHIL GARNER! PHIL GARNER! PHIL GARNER!

[JPM0016]

Originally posted by bigboymumu
PHIL GARNER! PHIL GARNER! PHIL GARNER!

1 winning season in 11 years

and yes i know he managed both Milwaukee and Detroit

[bigboymumu]

Originally posted by JPM0016
1 winning season in 11 years

and yes i know he managed both Milwaukee and Detroit

Think about it. Drayton is not going to pay for a big name especially when they have to pay Jimy next year. Scrap Iron still lives in Houston....

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally posted by gunn
No, not really. The speculation is that he would play for the Yankees, and the rumor is that he will agree to opt out of his no-trade clause.
:) semantics rock

After all the fanfare surrounding his arrival back in Houston, I really don't see him leaving. If the Stros are 6 back in the WC right before the trading deadline...who knows.

I'm hoping (cause I'm a fan, that's all I got) that that isn't the case.

[Buck Turgidson]

Personally, I like Don Baylor as the next manager.

Can't hire him until after the season, most likely.

[Oski2005]

It's my fault guys, I just haven't been watching the games. With them losing, it makes me want to watch them less. I'm going to the movies, but I'll try and catch tonights game and then I'll get right on watching every game. If they start winning because of me, somebody owes me allstar ducets.

[whag00]

To be fair fair it's not all on Bagwell. While he is the easiest to target because of his contract we should also point fingers at Ausmus (.230 hitter), Berkman (What has he done since June 1?), Beltran (hasn't done much since the 1st series with Texas), Ensberg (where did the power go?), Everett ( 12 walks and a .265 average)...

Also management expected more innings out of their starters and Redding has been AWFUL. Oswalt (until recently), Miller and Pettitte have been either inconsistent or injured or both.

Only bright spots have been Clemens, Lidge and Viz...

[Rashmon]

Nothing too different this year.

The Astro's have been breaking my heart on a yearly basis since 1968 when I first started keeping track.

They fooled me this year, though. Even I was thinking this was the year.

Oh well, we still got another half-season of ball...GO 'STROS!

[rrj_gamz]

I don't want to bitch and whine, but damn, this is very frustrating...we should be in 1st not 9.5 games back...:mad:

[nWo34Life]

Originally posted by rrj_gamz
I don't want to bitch and whine, but damn, this is very frustrating...we should be in 1st not 9.5 games back...:mad:

And 4 games close to last place. :mad:

[Groogrux]

Originally posted by nWo34Life
And 4 games close to last place. :mad:

And 4 games close to the playoffs. :D

[HillBoy]

Originally posted by Rocketman95
And 4 games close to the playoffs. :D
Do you see ANYTHING in the way they're playing to REMOTELY suggest that this group will ACTUALLY get up off their collective a$$es and actually make a real run for the wild card? And don't forget that to do so will require that they beat the Cubbies head to head at some point in time and I just don't see this happening. If you do please explain how and why you believe that can happen. I see a manager going through the motions (Williams is a goner) and a team that's quit on him, themselves and their fans.

And to think that Dierker was fired because he could not win in the playoffs. HELL! At least he GOT them there which is way more than can be said about what Williams has been able to do. But what REALLY chaps my hide is that the Astros have somehow exchanged places with the Rangers who are now winning with real PLAYERS while the Astros limp along with the likes of Bagwell and his friends. At the merciful end of this season NOBODY'S job should be safe ESPECIALLY the GM's.

[DavidS]

Originally posted by DaDakota
No passion, no fire, it seems they are sleep walking.


That seems like the main issue. It's almost like they're APATHETIC.

In the past, at least they played with FIRE, even if they didn't always play smart OR do the little things to win.

Today, we can add "no passion" to that list. What the frick is going on? They have all the talent in the world. Just not using it.

[DaDakota]

Do you guys think the team has given up on Jimy like they did on Dierker?

DD

[Nick]

Originally posted by DaDakota
Do you guys think the team has given up on Jimy like they did on Dierker?

DD

When did they give up on Dierker? The 2001 playoffs? They may have never liked playing for him, but they sure didn't stop trying.... they probably played some of the best baseball in the entire Dierker era, in the second half of 2001, his final year.

From what I can see, the only players on this team that would have a problem with Jimy are the starting pitchers, and that's just the ones who don't have enough confidence in their stuff in the first place. (Miller and Redding)

There's not much complaint from the position players because they're all proffesionals, and will do their job to the fullest of abilities. Also, after Dierker, any manager who actually knew baseball strategy was a welcome sight for the elders in that clubhouse.

Whether its due to age (Ausmus, Kent, Bagwell) or just not much talent to begin with (Everett, Viz), Jimy has failed to get anything close to the level he got out of this club the last two years...

[Davidoff]

The Cubs think they have a curse?? COME PLAY FOR THE ASTROS!!!

[DavidS]

I wonder if many of the Astro players have been thinking ahead to the All-Star game and not concentrating on winning.

I hope we get a second wind....post-all-star.

[Ric]

Originally posted by DaDakota
The Bags and Biggio era should end....now, they have led the team nowhere.
if 4 playoff appearences in 6 years leads to nowhere, where in h-e-double hockey sticks was this franchise during its first 34 years of existence, when they made all of 2 postseason appearences?

i think biggio and bagwell deserve a little more credit than that.

[Dreamshake]

The Astros SUCK!!!!!



I dont hate the Stro's, they just plain ol suck right now. Even ****ty hitting should be ok with solid pitching...which across the board we dont have outside of Roger. But this is just pathetic.


Ive been a Stro's fan for many many years. Since my first game watching Jose Cruz in the Dome waaaaaaay back Ive always had a huge soft spot for my loveable losers.


But there is NO reason this team should suck this bad.


Hurt Bags....so what.



All teams have injuries to deal with. There is still waaaaaaay to much talent on this team to be a .500 club. At this rate they wont even be that once its all said and done.


Its time to make a change. Dump Williams. I had my reserves about him when we hired him, ever since we dumped Dierker, we have been a mediocre team with exceptional talent. I dont know at this point if its Williams or the lack of heart on this team (IS anyone allowed to celebrate on this team-DAMN!...Game winning 9th inning homeruns should be celebrated a tad more then a slap on the back), but Something needs to be done. And it starts with the boss.














DAMN they lost again today....heartless bastards are killing me.

[DaDakota]

Ric,

They made the playoffs, but they certainly do not get it done any longer.

Time to go a different direction.

I would like the see some of the younger guys get some more playing time.

Let's see what Lane can do with some steady play.

I think watching Hidalgo go crazy in NY is a telling sign...he just seems to care more.

I think the players have lost confidence in Jimy, they don't understand what the heck he is thinking.....

Jimy MUST go.

DD

[rezdawg]

Im so pissed that they have basically put me in a bad mood over the last few weeks. Ive gotten to the point where i cant even focus on my studies because im so sick and tired of the way they are playing.

F the astros.

[Nick]

Originally posted by rezdawg
Im so pissed that they have basically put me in a bad mood over the last few weeks. Ive gotten to the point where i cant even focus on my studies because im so sick and tired of the way they are playing.

F the astros.

I'm right there with you Rez... I'm starting to dislike anything to do with the game of baseball, thanks to this team. Also, food tastes worse, women look less hot, and everything just flat-out sucks when your team is in a brutal tailspin.

The sad thing is, it would be easy to just say "Hey... its just not their year," but every time they go out there, they have HOF'ers (Clemens) or young studs (Oswalt, Beltran, Lidge) performing great, and you start to get excited again about this team.

This road trip, however, was just too much. I officially put no more expectations on this team anymore... if they start winning, more power to them; if they continue to lose, its nothing but expected.

[bigboymumu]

IMO, Hunsicker and Drayton do not get enough of the blame! I do not give them credit for Roger and Andy. Roger and Andy fell in Gerry's lap. How do you go into this season without addressing our most obvious needs? I mean, this is an all or none season right? Pitching, defense, and speed wins championships. Whitey Herzog used to say the two most important things in baseball is a sense of humor and relief pitching. I guess Hunsicker agrees with the humor part because this team is a joke. (way too many holes) I already know what is going to happen. We are going to fall out of contention and then we will start playing better. NO BALLS STROS!

I enjoy watching the Pirates, Red Sox, and Marlins play. Those teams enjoy playing with each other. THIS TEAM IS TOUGH TO WATCH.

Fire Jimy
Fire Hunsicker
Do not resign Biggio
Start over
And most importantly, someone buy this team from that snake oil salesman!

3-2-1. The click to the rescue!!!! ;)

[codell]

bigboymumu,

Hunsicker pulled off 3 major acquisitions, that addressed your "speed, pitching and defense" and you want him fired???

Unbelievable. :confused:

[bigboymumu]

clique ;) :cool:

[codell]

Originally posted by bigboymumu
clique ;) :cool:

plop :)

[bobrek]

Originally posted by bigboymumu
Fire Jimy
Fire Hunsicker
Do not resign Biggio
Start over
And most importantly, someone buy this team from that snake oil salesman!

3-2-1. The click to the rescue!!!! ;)

Biggio has been their most consistent offensive performer all year. The Astros hold an option for next year at, I believe, 3 million. A leadoff man that hits .300 with 20 HRs and 100+ runs scored is certainly worth that. His OBP when leading off an inning is around .440 with an average of around .380. Those are outstanding numbers.

[bigboymumu]

Hunsicker has stated on numerous occasions that this is going to be this current core of players' last chance. If that is the case, we need to make room for players like Lane, Tavares... Players that will be around in 5 years. I wouldn't mind having Biggio around to guide the young players but it would have to be as a utility player/pinch hitter.

[Ric]

Originally posted by DaDakota
They made the playoffs, but they certainly do not get it done any longer.
perhaps not, but they did lead the team to places slightly better than nowhere.

Originally posted by DaDakota
Time to go a different direction.
don't get me wrong - i'm firmly in the "do what you have to, bagwell and biggio be damned, to build this team around beltran" camp; in fact, i may be camp president.

but it won't diminish what bags and bidge have done in their tenurehere in houston.

[Rocket River]

Originally posted by DaDakota
Yep,

I said it.

They just don't play with passion, they don't do the little things to win ball games and surprisingly, they don't do the smart things either.

The Bags and Biggio era should end....now, they have led the team nowhere.

This team is simply dead.

DD

so the Killer Bs got another coach RUN


Rocket River

[MadMax]

Originally posted by Rocket River
so the Killer Bs got another coach RUN


Rocket River

they liked jimy.

[codell]

Originally posted by MadMax
they liked jimy.

I think he meant by their play.

In that case ........so did Everett, Ausmus, Ensberg, Kent, the bullpen and half the starting rotation.

Surely hes not singling out Bidge and Bags.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by codell
I think he meant by their play.

In that case ........so did Everett, Ausmus, Ensberg, Kent, the bullpen and half the starting rotation.

Surely hes not singling out Bidge and Bags.

oh, no. surely not. :rolleyes:

yeah...bidge is killing us out there.

[codell]

Richard Justice has another scathing article out today.

He thinks Garner will end up benching Bags if he doesn't get his act together.

Does anyone really think hell do that??

[HillBoy]

Originally posted by codell
Richard Justice has another scathing article out today.

He thinks Garner will end up benching Bags if he doesn't get his act together.

Does anyone really think hell do that??
Yeah, I believe it as well. This team can no longer afford to allow unproductive players to play simply because of legacy considerations. This season's embarassing crash and burn has used up any goodwill that Bagwell, Biggio and the rest had stored up over the years. They will now have to produce results or sit down and nurse whatever bruised egos they may have on the bench. Garner has no margin for error and no time to put up with what just got Williams fired. They are in 9th place and must pass either the Cardinals or the Cubs or the Mets or the Dodgers/Giants to make the playoffs. That's the ONLY thing that matters at this point.

[JPM0016]

Originally posted by HillBoy
Yeah, I believe it as well. This team can no longer afford to allow unproductive players to play simply because of legacy considerations. This season's embarassing crash and burn has used up any goodwill that Bagwell, Biggio and the rest had stored up over the years.

Why include Biggio? He is the ONLY astro who has pulled his weight from Day 1

I do agree that Bagwell will find a spot on the bench if he doesn't pick it up soon.

[Jebus]

Originally posted by codell
Richard Justice has another scathing article out today.

He thinks Garner will end up benching Bags if he doesn't get his act together.

Does anyone really think hell do that??

It seemed like he was setting the tone for a move like this during his press conference yesterday.

Whether he does it or not is another story, but it seems clear that he'll at least consider it.

[codell]

Originally posted by Jebus
It seemed like he was setting the tone for a move like this during his press conference yesterday.

Ill believe it when I see it.

Thats going to be a tough situation. Almost makes me think that Bags pride will tell him to retire before he gets benched.

Interesting to say the least..............

[Austin70]

I guess Viz could take his place at 1st, hopefuly this change will light a fire under everybody's a$$.

[DaDakota]

I think that is why they said it was a temporary solution.

That way, he can bench them without any fear of long term reprecussions.

I would rather seen Lane at first base then Bags.

DD

[Jebus]

Originally posted by DaDakota
I think that is why they said it was a temporary solution.

That way, he can bench them without any fear of long term reprecussions.

I would rather seen Lane at first base then Bags.

DD

Or maybe Mike Lamb? What about putting Lane in the outfield and moving Lance to 1st? Which would be easier for Bagwell to take- a rookie taking his spot at first, or a proven all-star?

I would do any of these before using Viz at first.

I'm with codell though, I'll believe it when I see it.

[DaDakota]

Originally posted by Jebus
Or maybe Mike Lamb? What about putting Lane in the outfield and moving Lance to 1st? Which would be easier for Bagwell to take- a rookie taking his spot at first, or a proven all-star?

I would do any of these before using Viz at first.

I'm with codell though, I'll believe it when I see it.

Sure, sounds good to me....

[Dennis2112]

Originally posted by Jebus
What about putting Lane in the outfield and moving Lance to 1st?


Lance has not played there since College. I do not believe it would be wise to do that in the middle of the season.

I would tell Bags that he will play a few days then get some bench time and be a pinch hitter for a few games. Have Viz or Lane man the postion of Bags' off days.

[Jebus]

Originally posted by Dennis2112
Lance has not played there since College. I do not believe it would be wise to do that in the middle of the season.

I would tell Bags that he will play a few days then get some bench time and be a pinch hitter for a few games. Have Viz or Lane man the postion of Bags' off days.

Just asking, but how often has Lane played 1st?

[thacabbage]

Originally posted by DaDakota
I think that is why they said it was a temporary solution.

That way, he can bench them without any fear of long term reprecussions.

I would rather seen Lane at first base then Bags.

DD
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that was a typo, but if not, why are you including Biggio with Bagwell? Biggio has been very productive at the plate this year.

[caphorns]

For all you Bagwell haters, hasn't he always been a second half player? I hate watching the guy struggle at the plate, but as I recall, he typically works better over the second half. Also, why are Berkman, Everett and Ausmus not being lumped into the same group of struggling Astros? And please for the love of god, stop lumping Biggio and Bagwell together in every sentence. Two very different players.

By the way, for the Lamb advocates, Lamb is a poor defensive player at 3rd, so how can you trust him at 1st?

I have seen plenty of Richard Justice's remedies for the Astros. Rick is ready to trade Kent. Idiotic. Justice was also the same guy who pushed to move Bags out of the 3 hole (in favor of Berkman). Now, both guys are struggling at the plate. Somehow Justice (and Williams) seem to have forgotten that a large part of hitting comes from timing, rythm and confidence. You don't just throw someone out of their routine and hope it all works. I'm very tired of the experimentation.

[DaDakota]

Originally posted by thacabbage
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that was a typo, but if not, why are you including Biggio with Bagwell? Biggio has been very productive at the plate this year.

I meant anyone who deserves it.....not just Bags.

DD

[MadMax]

Originally posted by DaDakota
I meant anyone who deserves it.....not just Bags.

DD

but why does Biggio "deserve it" this season?

[DaDakota]

Originally posted by MadMax
but why does Biggio "deserve it" this season?

I don't think he does.

However, he should not be leading off, why not let Beltran lead off?

He can put significant more pressure on the defense with his ability to steal a base.

Biggio should be moved down in the order...where all those doubles can benefit the team better.

DD

[MadMax]

Originally posted by DaDakota
I don't think he does.

However, he should not be leading off, why not let Beltran lead off?

He can put significant more pressure on the defense with his ability to steal a base.

Biggio should be moved down in the order...where all those doubles can benefit the team better.

DD

i disagree. biggio's doubles down the order are less important than beltran's ability to drive in runs down the order. i think it would be a waste of beltran's abilities to have him leadoff.

[JPM0016]

Beltran should be slotted back at the #2 hole where he's been most comfortable

[caphorns]

Beltran is too good an RBI guy for the 1 or 2. But I have a novel idea - why not let Scrap Iron figure it out? If it were me, I'd try to see where guys tended to do their best historically and then slot them that way. Biggio has always been his best in the leadoff and he's hitting over .300 right now. So, he's doing his job and setting the table. You have to give him preference right at the moment.

[HillBoy]

Originally posted by caphorns
For all you Bagwell haters, hasn't he always been a second half player? I hate watching the guy struggle at the plate, but as I recall, he typically works better over the second half. Also, why are Berkman, Everett and Ausmus not being lumped into the same group of struggling Astros? And please for the love of god, stop lumping Biggio and Bagwell together in every sentence. Two very different players.

By the way, for the Lamb advocates, Lamb is a poor defensive player at 3rd, so how can you trust him at 1st?

I have seen plenty of Richard Justice's remedies for the Astros. Rick is ready to trade Kent. Idiotic. Justice was also the same guy who pushed to move Bags out of the 3 hole (in favor of Berkman). Now, both guys are struggling at the plate. Somehow Justice (and Williams) seem to have forgotten that a large part of hitting comes from timing, rythm and confidence. You don't just throw someone out of their routine and hope it all works. I'm very tired of the experimentation.
I'm not a Bagwell hater but I do think his days as an everyday player are over. At this point, I feel that he'd be better playing DH in the American league but his lack of RBIs sort of puts a damper on that idea. You are right in that Ausmus, Everett & Berkman have also sucked big time and that they, too, should be placed on notice. All 3 play positions where you should be getting far more on offense than they have provided.

Kent will be gone next year so that's a moot point. This team is out of options this year and it will take a minor miracle for them to even make the playoffs as the wild card. It may very well end up that all they did yesterday was to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic.

[MadMax]

Hill --

I'm not sure that Bags even has enough pop left to be a DH.

[SamCassell]

Bags makes way too much money to bench, and it would go over poorly in the clubhouse and with the fans. Plus, he's got a career-long history of rebounding in the second half. You have to give him a chance to do the one thing he's done year-after-year-after-year in this league, because frankly this team needs a productive Jeff Bagwell to go anywhere.

[JPM0016]

Originally posted by SamCassell
Bags makes way too much money to bench, and it would go over poorly in the clubhouse and with the fans. Plus, he's got a career-long history of rebounding in the second half. You have to give him a chance to do the one thing he's done year-after-year-after-year in this league, because frankly this team needs a productive Jeff Bagwell to go anywhere.

We are halfway through the month and he still hasn't gotten out of his funk. July is usually the month of Bagwell and with each passing day i think its less likely he comes out of it.


July 2003 - .287 average, 10 HR's, 25 RBI's, .432 OBP

July 2004 - .206 average, 0 HR's, 2 RBI's, .372 OBP

i'm hoping he gets it going with 12 of the next 14 at home

[caphorns]

I hope you are wrong about Bags, but I know this much - no pitching coach is going to be able to tweek that freaked out stance and off-balance swing of his. Only Bags knows how to get that swing cranked up.

[Zac D]

Originally posted by HillBoy
You are right in that Ausmus, Everett & Berkman have also sucked big time and that they, too, should be placed on notice. All 3 play positions where you should be getting far more on offense than they have provided.

No, only one of them does. The Astros can win games without Everett and Ausmus being all-star hitters. They cannot win without Berkman, Kent, Bagwell, Beltran, and/or Ensberg hitting.

[Zac D]

Originally posted by caphorns
...no pitching coach is going to be able to tweek that freaked out stance and off-balance swing of his.

Ain't that the truth!



:p

[Khopesh]

Originally posted by Austin70
I guess Viz could take his place at 1st, hopefuly this change will light a fire under everybody's a$$.

Man, did you see Viz play 1st earlier?

I love Viz, but it was ugly. He has no business playing 1st.

Move Berkman over, call up Taveras, or put in Lamb.

[Uprising]

Originally posted by codell
Richard Justice has another scathing article out today.

He thinks Garner will end up benching Bags if he doesn't get his act together.

Does anyone really think hell do that??


Doesn't Bagwell normally turn hot after the alstar break?

[JBIIRockets]

Originally posted by codell

He thinks Garner will end up benching Bags if he doesn't get his act together.

Does anyone really think hell do that??

Bags should be benched. I'd give him one more week to turn it around, and if he is still in his funk, take him off the lineup card. Astros should be about winning, not making legacies last as long as they can.

[bigboymumu]

Originally posted by bigboymumu
Think about it. Drayton is not going to pay for a big name especially when they have to pay Jimy next year. Scrap Iron still lives in Houston....

Drayton is pretty predictable!

[arkoe]

Originally posted by Uprising
Doesn't Bagwell normally turn hot after the alstar break?

Keyword is normally.

[moligity]

Thought I'de revive this b/c it's so true. And the truth hurts. What a waste of time and money. When does football season start?

[DaDakota]

No heart, no hustle, no chance.

DD