Has Bagwell lost it?

[JBIIRockets]

Because he has been awful for a loooong time now.

Hit .245 in June.

In 6 games at Wrigley Field, he's batting .160. If he continues to do that against a team ahead of us in the division, the Astros won't make the playoffs.

I think Bagwell is the biggest reason the Astros have had this suddenly disappointing offensive season, and no one seems to make much mention of his declining skills (Maybe I missed something though). He's not good on defense anymore with his shoulder. And his leadership skills pretty much stink. He is just too nice a guy. He does his business and that is it.

And as a team in the first 17 games of June, the Astros NEVER scored more than 5 runs in a game. That's uncalled for.

[redgoose]

Yes, he has.

With his shoulder problem hurting him everday, the game is not fun for him. That's why he shows no enthusiam, IMO.

I wish he would retire after the season. That 17 million would sure allow us to resign Beltran, who has looked mighty good as an Astro.:)

[rezdawg]

Im hoping he can turn it around. He does this every single year. I know this because he has always been on my fantasy team. I go through a frustrating 5-6 week stretch wtih him. His stroke will come back, and with that, the offense will start to score some runs.

[spence99]

I disagree that Bagwell does this every year. The last few years he has, but he never did during his prime. And in the last few years, the slumps have gotten longer and worse. He never has struck out as much as he has this year. If his shoulder is hurting as much as everyone talks about, then he should retire after this year.

[JPM0016]

Pre allstar break 2003

.271 average, 17 home runs, 47 RBI's

April 2003 - .314 average, 10 home runs, 19 RBI's

May 2003 - .257 average, 1 home run, 6 RBI's

June 2003 - .255 average, 3 home runs, 13 RBI's


Pre allstar break 2004

.275 average, 11 home runs, 38 RBI's

April 2004 - .316 average, 5 home runs, 17 RBI's

May 2004 - .272 average, 3 home runs, 13 RBI's

June 2004 - .245 average, 3 home runs, 8 RBI's


the numbers aren't much different so hopefully he busts out of his slump in July


July 2003 - .287 average, 10 homeruns, 25 RBI's

[rezdawg]

Originally posted by spence99
I disagree that Bagwell does this every year. The last few years he has, but he never did during his prime. And in the last few years, the slumps have gotten longer and worse. He never has struck out as much as he has this year. If his shoulder is hurting as much as everyone talks about, then he should retire after this year.

Bags was carrying a .260 average at this time, 2 years ago. At this time last year, he had a .272 average, and reached a low of .265 on July 9th. He is currently batting .275.

About his strikeout numbers, he had 70 strikeouts at this point 2 years ago, 65 strikeouts at this point last year. He has 71 right now.

He is right on par with the rest of his career.

[Do WHAT?]

3 years and 40 million left on contract. Would be nice if he retired and the Astros were able to sign Beltran to a long term contract.

[robbie380]

:( this makes me sad to see one of my favorite players growing up simply deteriorating out there. i understand that pain he is going thru with his shoulder. its too bad because he was a lock for the hall of fame and now that is in question because of his shoulder injury which is ending his career.

i almost wish bagwell wasnt such a hard worker and a gamer and that he would just hang it up. his arm is going to be completely wrecked after he retires.:(

[Groogrux]

Originally posted by robbie380
i almost wish bagwell wasnt such a hard worker and a gamer and that he would just hang it up. his arm is going to be completely wrecked after he retires.:(

On the flip side of that, he seems like he has too much pride to go out like Mays or someone else similar. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he retires after this year unless he makes a huge turnaround.

Looked decent last night!

[Fegwu]

I hear resting his shoulders does him no good.

Because I would have advocated for us to temporarily move Berkman to first and Lane to left while Baggy rests and recoups his ailling shoulder.

Heck Jimmy should consider this line up twice a week at least weather Baggy likes it or not.

[rezdawg]

Bags will be back...like I said, its been a trend throughout his career. Now, he probably wont be bouncing back with the tears that we are accustomed to, but he will bounce back and be a solid producer. No worries.

[Groogrux]

Originally posted by rezdawg
Bags will be back...like I said, its been a trend throughout his career. Now, he probably wont be bouncing back with the tears that we are accustomed to, but he will bounce back and be a solid producer. No worries.

Actually, there are worries. If Bagwell returns, there's no way we'll be keeping Beltran, most likely. I'd love for Bags to go on a tear this year, we win it all, then him hang it up.

[Smokey]

Can Bagwell restructure his contract so the Astros can resign Beltran? If that is not possible, he needs to hang it up for the future of the franchise. Odds are he won't restructure it, he will come back, the Astros will lose Beltran, and life without winning a playoff series will continue in Houston.

[JPM0016]

Originally posted by Smokey
Can Bagwell restructure his contract so the Astros can resign Beltran?

unfortunately no

[Gummi Clutch]

Chapter 13. The Secret is Acceptance

After recognizing your feelings, which takes acceptance, you are faced with only two options:

If you reject the feelings you've recognized, then you automatically default back to the Starting Point.

If you confirm your acceptance of the feelings you've recognized, then you continue on to the Expression Step.:mad:

[Rocket Fan]

We'll see what happens.. I don't see bagwell as someone who will keep playing just to get a check...

but if I had 3 years and 40 mil left.. it'd be really hard to retire..

I agree it'd be nice to have that money to use to resign beltran.. as much as I love bagwell and biggio

[Rocket Fan]

didn't mean to add biggio in that last post.. I was referring to long time astros i'll hate to see retire.. biggio has played well this year..

[JBIIRockets]

I'm not a big Biggio guy either, but he has done pretty well at the plate this year.

Bagwell has been frustrating me this year because he is such an unreliable timely hitter now. When the Astros were down 6-1 to the Rangers on Saturday, Bagwell did his best to kill the rally by grounding to short. Fortunately, Young booted the ball. In the first inning of the same game, Bags killed a rally with a double play groundout. He's been doing this all season.

It's a shame to say this, but if an opposing pitcher needs to get out of a jam and Bags is at the plate, Bagwell is the guy who usually comes through for that pitcher.

I miss the 1994 Bagwell, who owned every pitcher in the game. Damn strike. he had 116 steaks at that point.

[HillBoy]

Originally posted by spence99
I disagree that Bagwell does this every year. The last few years he has, but he never did during his prime. And in the last few years, the slumps have gotten longer and worse. He never has struck out as much as he has this year. If his shoulder is hurting as much as everyone talks about, then he should retire after this year.
It would be a good start if he would call it quits because from what I've seen of him this year he is done. He's looked terrible for the past 3 years now and while his BA is respectible, he has become a complete nonfactor in games. That would allow them to use his $17 million to resign Beltran who looks better than any of their so-called hitters.

Oh and while you are at it, get rid of Hooten & Spillman when you yank the rug under Williams. All three deserve to be looking for a real job. Their hitters are absolutely pathetic and their pitchers don't look much better. How bad are the Astros? They just got whacked by a team with only 2 legit starters but the Astros managed to make them look like Cy Young pitchers. After a season in the toilet like this one no one's job in the organization should be considered safe - even Hunsicker's.

And does anyone remember exactly WHY Larry Deirker was let go? Something about couldn't win a playoff game if I recall. Well how about MAKING the F ing playoffs Jimy?

[Ender120]

Everyone keeps talking about resigning Beltran, but has the fact occurred to you that Beltran might not stay here either way, regardless of how much we offer him?

Beltran's family is in New York. He wants to be a Yankee. End of story.

After this year, we, above all, should understand the pull of family and how it affects where a player wishes to go.

So don't write off Bagwell just yet in the hopes that you'll keep Beltran. If you do that, you might end up without either of them.

[JPM0016]

Originally posted by Ender120
Beltran's family is in New York. He wants to be a Yankee. End of story.


end of what story? You don't know where he'll end up next year

[pugsly8422]

Originally posted by Smokey
Can Bagwell restructure his contract so the Astros can resign Beltran? If that is not possible, he needs to hang it up for the future of the franchise. Odds are he won't restructure it, he will come back, the Astros will lose Beltran, and life without winning a playoff series will continue in Houston.

I believe this quote says it all, and is 100% correct, unfortunately. If this could happen it would be great and you woudl think he was the type of person who would/could do this for a franchise to help them now and in the future. But once again I believe nothing is going to change with his contract and we will lose Beltran even though we'll offer him a contract. I'll repeat the key part of the quote... Originally posted by Smokey the Astros will lose Beltran, and life without winning a playoff series will continue in Houston.

Pugs

[codell]

Originally posted by JPM0016
unfortunately no

Technically, he can, by deferring money (i.e., spread out the last $30 mil over 10 years instead of 2).

However, it can't be in a way where the value of the contract is less. MLBPA will not allow that.

[rockets-#1]

Bagwell did this exact same thing last year. There was a period when he went like a month, IIRC, without a HR or RBI, one or the other. He sucked in the middle of last season and he's doing it again, but I think he'll be able to go on a tear like last year. He did end up with 39/100, remember.

[SamCassell]

Originally posted by JBIIRockets
I miss the 1994 Bagwell, who owned every pitcher in the game. Damn strike. he had 116 steaks at that point.

He was likely gone for the season anyway, with the hand injury. But yea, Bags isn't the same. He's still a solid player, but he's not playing at the Hall-of-Fame level he once did.

[DaDakota]

I think he is done, he will have flashes, but it is time to move him to the bottom of the lineup.

He just does not have it anymore....

DD

[Raven Lunatic]

Bagwell used to have it. But then they changed what it was. Now, what Bagwell has, isn't it, and what's it seems weird and scary to him. It will happen to Biggio.

[codell]

Originally posted by DaDakota
I think he is done, he will have flashes, but it is time to move him to the bottom of the lineup.

He just does not have it anymore....

DD

He is already batting 6th. Do you really think Ausmus and Everett should bat ahead of him?

[Fegwu]

Originally posted by codell
He is already batting 6th. Do you really think Ausmus and Everett should bat ahead of him?


Ausmus shouldn't even be in the lineup anymore.

[JPM0016]

Ausmus stats are right on par with what he's done the last 4 years. It's easier to point the finger at him when the rest of the lineup has sucked it up for 6 or 7 weeks. He's the #8 hitter, he's not expected to do anything

[Groogrux]

He just got intentional walked. Maybe that will fire him up! :)

[xiki]

I feel for the guy. He's got the fire, but needs to be rewired. That 'achilles shoulder' pains me as a fan and as a fellow biped.

Bags should probably, at least apparently, hang 'em up at season's end. I'll be sorry to see him go -- sorry to watch him suffer now.

[JBIIRockets]

Bagwell's grounding-out-to-shortstop-average has to be around .700.

He either does that or strikes out.

[Do WHAT?]

What is Bagwells total K's for the season? Seems he is trying to hit a Hr everytime he is at bat. Still can't believe he is due 40 ml over the next three years.

[Roc Paint]

He's not intimidating anyone right now, and no one is affraid of him. And if the Astros are going to have any chance at getting to the post-season, Jeff Bagwell must show up now, or the 'Stros could be in big trouble.

I think he just needs to settle in a little bit more, and let the pitches come to him, instead of going after everything with bad intensions.

[ILoveClutchCity]

Biggio has more HRs than Bagwell. That is the only stat I need to see to convince me Bags is done. Can anyone tell me the last season that at the break Biggs had more jacks than Bags?

[Khopesh]

Originally posted by Roc Paint

I think he just needs to settle in a little bit more, and let the pitches come to him, instead of going after everything with bad intensions.

The point is he can't wait for the pitch because his swing takes so long. That and he jerks his head away from the ball on the tail end.