[Possible Scandal] Kerry's Divorce Papers, Why should we care?

[twhy77]

Personally, I've reversed my position since I was a teenager with the Clinton fiasco. I don't think this is news and I don't think its something that should be reported, *if* something is found. I only post it here to show my displeasure with the whole reality TV aspect of what could pass as voyeuristic pornography. Should we know everything about our candidates? Would you want the world to know all of your evils and past transgressions? Is it because of their prominence in the spotlight that we are *allowed* to do this? Can no one adequetley report on the news anymore? Call me old fashioned or what not. Its like the Scarlet A one must wear and thats not what the country should be about.

Well, I'll join the conversation later, gotta work away from comp. all day.

http://www.drudgereport.com/kerryt.htm

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX SUN JUNE 27, 2004 20:34:08 ET XXXXX

CHASE ON FOR SEALED KERRY DIVORCE DOCUMENTS; PAPER FRENZY AFTER ILLINOIS SENATE RACE RELEASE

After last week's front page headlines over ugly unsealed divorce records in the Republican Illinois senate race, media outlets now face a dilemma: What to do about Democrat presidential hopeful John Kerry's sealed divorce records!

The race is on in political and media circles to gauge the import of Kerry's sealed July 25, 1988 divorce from his first wife, Julia Stimson Thorne.

TRIBUNE, which successfully sued a court to gain access to Illinois Republican Jack Ryan's divorce papers and child custody records [over the objection of both Ryan and his former wife], is considering a similar push on Kerry, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

[TRIBUNE owns WLVI-TV Channel 56 in Boston. It could use its Massachusetts connection as a jumping point to petition the court which granted Kerry a divorce, sources explain.]

Other news outlets may soon follow.

CAMPAIGN CALLS DIVORCE DIGGING 'GUTTER BALL'

The Kerry campaign late Sunday called any old divorce digging a game of political "gutter ball."

"This is a trash hunt," said a senior Kerry source, who asked not to be named.

"No, I do not have a clue what is in the papers," explained the source. "But it is none of my business. And its none of your business, or any one's business... You're playing a game of gutter ball, Drudge."

"I would argue, adamantly, the records should remain sealed. And out of the hands of John's political enemies."

JUDGE: PUBLIC'S RIGHT TO KNOW

The Los Angeles judge which ordered the release of Ryan's sealed divorce ruled that the public interest in having access to the case records outweighed the Ryans' interest in protecting their child from the publicity that would follow the documents' release.

Ryan and his former wife released a statement saying they were "disturbed and angered" by last week's ruling by Superior Court Judge Robert Schnider, who was named a full judge by California Democrat Gov. Gray Davis.

"They were aware they were in a public court system and protection from embarrassment cannot be a basis for keeping from the public what's put in public courts," said Schnider, referring to Ryan and his ex-wife, actress Jeri Ryan. "The openness of court files must be maintained, so that the public ... can be assured that there is no favoritism shown to the rich and powerful."

MORE

In 1991, a court also sealed a complaint amending the Kerry-Thorne divorce, concerning economic and child visitation issues, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

In her 1996 book, "Change of Heart," Thorne said that playing the role of wife to the rising political star had made her so depressed she wanted to kill herself.

Thorne said she still associates politics "only with anger, fear, and loneliness."

She wrote "A Change Of Heart" to help other unhappily married couples; in the book, she called her relationship with Kerry a "suffocating marriage."

Developing...

[DCkid]

Originally posted by twhy77
Personally, I've reversed my position since I was a teenager with the Clinton fiasco. I don't think this is news and I don't think its something that should be reported.
It's politics and it concerns the presidential election. Definitely newsworthy.

[mc mark]

Hey Drudge! Tell you what!

Kerry will release his divorce papers when Jr comes clean about the quickie abortion he had his girlfriend have in the 70s (when it was illegal).

Oh and his DWI records!

Oh and why he never had the physical that got him grounded from flying.

[DCkid]

Originally posted by mc mark
Hey Drudge! Tell you what!

Kerry will release his divorce papers when Jr comes clean about the quickie abortion he had his girlfriend have in the 70s (when it was illegal).

Oh and his DWI records!

Oh and why he never had the physical that got him grounded from flying.
The thing is, noone may even have to ask Kerry for permission to see his divorce records. A precedent was set in California where the court can force the release of these records. Now, the GOP is trying to take advantage of this like any politician would.

If the Democrats can some how legally force the release of documents regarding Bush then they should probably go ahead and do it.

Dirty politics at its finest (or worst, depending on which way you look at it).

[mc mark]

California? I thought that all took place in Illinois?


Originally posted by DCkid
Dirty politics at its finest (or worst, depending on which way you look at it).

agreed

[edit] Oh I see, the papers were unsealed in the cusody battle in LA. Got it!

[dc rock]

Another "possible scandal" from Matt Drudge ??? Old one hit wonder better come up with something more substantial soon, because he's about to be as irrelevant in journalism as "Weekly World News". He's probably already there though.

http://static.userland.com/images/hal/wwn.jpg

[Oski2005]

The same newspaper that found all the sex stuff about Ryan is probably hoping to find some interesting dirt on Kerry.

[basso]

shouldn't have released the ryan papers, and kerry's should remain sealed. however, if ryan is fair game, then you can't really argue kerry shouldn't be.

[KingCheetah]

Personally, I've reversed my position since I was a teenager with the Clinton fiasco. I don't think this is news and I don't think its something that should be reported, *if* something is found. I only post it here to show my displeasure with the whole reality TV aspect of what could pass as voyeuristic pornography.
________________________________________________________

http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v68/kchee/unlikely.jpg

[ima_drummer2k]

It was petty when they did it to Ryan and it would be petty if they did it to Kerry. But I guess that's politics.

My only problem with this whole thing is that there were no pictures of Jeri Ryan in the sex club. What was she wearing? Did she have sex in the club? What are the details? Are there pictures? I think we have a right to know.

[KingCheetah]

Originally posted by ima_drummer2k
It was petty when they did it to Ryan and it would be petty if they did it to Kerry. But I guess that's politics.

My only problem with this whole thing is that there were no pictures of Jeri Ryan in the sex club. What was she wearing? Did she have sex in the club? What are the details? Are there pictures? I think we have a right to know.

How is someone taken against their will to a sex club? How exactly did he 'trick' her into going...

"Honey put on your leather french maid outfit and grab your whips ~ we need to go to the grocery store."

These things we need to know. :D

[Faos]

Is Kerry's ex as hot as Jeri?

[RocketMan Tex]

Originally posted by Faos
Is Kerry's ex as hot as Jeri?

Not by a long shot.

[ROXRAN]

Originally posted by twhy77
The Kerry campaign late Sunday called any old divorce digging a game of political "gutter ball."

"This is a trash hunt," said a senior Kerry source, who asked not to be named.



Hey!, if your big boy, Micheal Moore was on the other side of the fence he would be all over this like a free buffet!...and then he would do some editing to string together along with the constant political position switching, and medal tossing of the past...then a 7 minute closeup of him while Kerry eats a hamburger with Heinz ketchup as Moore shrills like a pig with disbelief...

"Waiting for the Heinz ketchup", opening as a documentary on the utter, and proven incompetencies of this Devil, and how he would kill us all! AAaarrhgg....(opening snippet compliments of Dean) What a movie that would be! Wow!

[Rocketman95]

I'm not up to speed on the Ryan thing, but did Democrats do it or did a newspaper do it? IIRC, Obama has made and kept a pledge to not partake in any negative campaigning.

[DCkid]

Originally posted by Rocketman95
I'm not up to speed on the Ryan thing, but did Democrats do it or did a newspaper do it? IIRC, Obama has made and kept a pledge to not partake in any negative campaigning.
A newspaper sued to gain access to the records...a democrat judge found in favor of them.

[Rocketman95]

Originally posted by DCkid
A newspaper sued to gain access to the records...a democrat judge found in favor of them.

So, in your expert legal opinion, he did this out of partisanship?

[mc mark]

Originally posted by DCkid
A newspaper sued to gain access to the records...a democrat judge found in favor of them.

DC do you have a link to support your assertion that this judge was a democrat?

I’m not attacking you, just interested. You're probably right. It is California.

[DCkid]

Originally posted by Rocketman95
So, in your expert legal opinion, he did this out of partisanship?
I don't know about that...but I'm fairly certain if the judge was of the same party as the nominee the verdict would have been different.

[DCkid]

Originally posted by mc mark
DC do you have a link to support your assertion that this judge was a democrat?

I’m not attacking you, just interested. You're probably right. It is California.
You're right...I got ahead of myself. I guess California, being a Gray Davis appointee, and the absurdity of the ruling (the public 'needs to know' about the details of someone's divorce) made me jump to conclusions. Sorry.

[mc mark]

no worries mate!

[SamFisher]

Originally posted by ima_drummer2k
It was petty when they did it to Ryan and it would be petty if they did it to Kerry. But I guess that's politics.



It's not really politics as much as it is lowest common denominator, sensationalistic journalism- and a lapse/absence of ethics/self control.

Ryan's opponent, who had a comfortable lead on Ryan anyway, had nothing to do with the Tribune's rush to get a juicy story on Ryan.

As for the legal precedent itself, I don't know that much about seal orders or the respective standards in Massachusetts and California, so I don't know what the answer is there.

[rimrocker]

As I understand it, this sex scandal without any actual sex was, once it was out in the open, pushed hard by the wacko right in Illinois because they were never comfortable with Ryan, who took some positions that were not in line or was perceived as not being totally committed to the cause.

It was the GOP that really forced Ryan to pull out (pun intended). Since Obama is going to win anyway, why not take out the wishy-washy Repub and see if you can get a fire-breather in there who might be able to build some name recognition.

[SamFisher]

Originally posted by rimrocker
As I understand it, this sex scandal without any actual sex was, once it was out in the open, pushed hard by the wacko right in Illinois because they were never comfortable with Ryan, who took some positions that were not in line or was perceived as not being totally committed to the cause.

It was the GOP that really forced Ryan to pull out (pun intended). Since Obama is going to win anyway, why not take out the wishy-washy Repub and see if you can get a fire-breather in there who might be able to build some name recognition.

I'm not quite sure about that, the Illinois GOP was already in turmoil because of the backlash from various scandals such as the one involving disgraced former Gov. George Ryan. I'm not sure if they'd be that self destructive.

[twhy77]

Originally posted by DCkid
It's politics and it concerns the presidential election. Definitely newsworthy.

Is it politics? Does it really concern the elction?

In other words, I don't think we should have access to a public figure's private life, just becasue they are a public figure. We all know politics has gotten brutally nasty, is there any real reason to make it worse?

[DCkid]

Originally posted by twhy77
Is it politics? Does it really concern the elction?

In other words, I don't think we should have access to a public figure's private life, just becasue they are a public figure. We all know politics has gotten brutally nasty, is there any real reason to make it worse?
I agree with your distaste for it. My post was more in the vein of "that's the way it is." And the fact is, that if his divorce records were disclosed and something "juicy" turned up, then it's certainly could have an effect on the election, however meaningless it may be.

[GreenVegan76]

I think a politician's private life is his own, and we have no right to invade it. But, Kerry is running for the most powerful position in the world, and I think Americans have every right to know if past "misdeeds" might conflict with his ability to run the country. Same thing with Bush. That's one of the high costs of being president.

Like I said, I personally wouldn't care if Bush was dry-humping tractors in his spare time. As long as he does his job, it's none of my business. But once his personal life keeps him from doing his job effectively, it becomes my business.

[rimrocker]

What I don't get is how the Repubs get away with the family-values thing when anyone who knows anything about human nature knows it's a crock (in general), especially where individual power and wealth are involved.
__________________

Sex pros get
ready for party

BY JOSE MARTINEZ
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

With thousands of Republicans set to invade the city this summer, high-priced escorts and strippers are preparing for one grand old party.

Agencies are flying in extra call girls from around the globe to meet the expected demand during the Aug. 30-Sept. 2 gathering at Madison Square Garden.

"We have girls from London, Seattle, California, all coming in for that week," said a madam at a Manhattan escort service. "It's the week everyone wants to work."

"It's going to be big," agreed one operator at a midtown escort service.

Charging from $300 to upwards of $1,000 for an hour of companionship and a whole lot more, escorts said they can always count on conventioneers for big business.

"It doesn't matter what party you come from," said Robyn Few, a $500-an-hour California call girl who now runs Sex Workers Outreach Project, an advocacy group. "When you want to buy sex, you will."

That's the hope among escort services expecting a windfall from randy Republicans.

"We've got everything organized - the hotels, the flights, the advertisements," said another escort service operator. "We'll probably have 60 girls that week, instead of the usual 30."

Political conventions have long been a boon for the sex industry.

At the 1992 Democratic convention in New York, bikini-clad female oil wrestlers dropped their tops on a flatbed truck in front of Madison Square Garden.

At the 1996 Republican convention in San Diego, an escort service in search of delegate dollars changed its name to GOP: Good Old-Fashioned Pleasure.

While many escort agencies operating on the sly out of Manhattan hotels and apartment buildings welcome the influx of potential customers, others are wary of increased police attention.

"We're just being very secure," said a woman who runs an agency in midtown. "So we won't be taking on any out-of-towners."

NYPD spokesman Sgt. Kevin Hayes said, "Our quality-of-life and crime reduction efforts will remain intact."

Tracy Quan, author of the autobiographical novel, "Diary of a Manhattan Call Girl," said she worries cops will crack down on the most visible sex workers.

"I get depressed whenever there's a big political convention because I know the street girls are going to be hassled, arrested and treated like criminals," Quan said. "All in the name of 'cleaning up' our city for these people from out of town."

The players on the legal end of the city's sex industry have no such worries - and strip club owners are salivating at the prospect of crowds equipped with bunches of big bills.

Clubs have started booking private parties for delegates anxious to ogle topless beauties after a day of watching fully clothed politicians boast about family values.

"We have our show down to a science," said Lonnie Hanover, a spokesman for Scores, the upscale topless club. "We'll be full every night with what we think are the best-looking girls in the industry."

Hanover said Scores - which recently opened a branch just blocks from the Garden - has lined up several big-name entertainers for the convention. "But we don't reveal them," he said.


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/story/206962p-178564c.html

[JuanValdez]

Originally posted by twhy77
In other words, I don't think we should have access to a public figure's private life, just becasue they are a public figure. We all know politics has gotten brutally nasty, is there any real reason to make it worse?

I don't see why not. If the court sees fit to release the information, I don't see why we shouldn't seek it. The information may not be pertinent, but we won't know until we see it. This is a fairly important choice we're making, and I don't know why we'd want to handicap ourselves in making it. Honestly, I don't have much patience for presidential candidates' complaints about privacy; if he's not up to the sacrifice, maybe he's not fit for the office.

Btw, in your original post you mentioned "the Clinton fiasco." What relation do you see between that incident and this one?

[twhy77]

Originally posted by JuanValdez
I don't see why not. If the court sees fit to release the information, I don't see why we shouldn't seek it. The information may not be pertinent, but we won't know until we see it. This is a fairly important choice we're making, and I don't know why we'd want to handicap ourselves in making it. Honestly, I don't have much patience for presidential candidates' complaints about privacy; if he's not up to the sacrifice, maybe he's not fit for the office.

Btw, in your original post you mentioned "the Clinton fiasco." What relation do you see between that incident and this one?


Just the invasion of someone's private life; dragging it all over the public sphere, all of their nasty secrets and dark transgressions.

Case in point, I know someone who had their life affected by public scandal. The children found out about it by reading the newspapers...and I mean, that's a very personal thing, a very private thing; that regardless of what happened, really isn't our business. It's like saying a public figure has no more private acts.

It sort of falls in line with my working definition of porno, which I believe is the intrusion by a third party, an interloper so to speak; on an act that is very private.

It's gossip, calumny, and hurtful. because lies spin off of what ever semblance of truth does exist. I just don't think its right to do that to a fellow human being.

[rimrocker]

Kerry Rules Out Opening Records of 1988 Divorce
Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:57 PM ET

PHOENIX, Ariz. (Reuters) - Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry on Tuesday rejected any suggestion that he release records of his 1988 divorce, calling it old history that had nothing to do with anyone else.

"I have no intention of doing that at all," Kerry said during a campaign stop in Phoenix, Arizona, when a reporter asked if he would release the papers from his divorce from his first wife Julia Thorn.

In a U.S. senate race in Illinois, Republican candidate Jack Ryan quit his campaign last week after the Chicago Tribune and other media sued to have his sealed divorce records made public.

The papers revealed that his ex-wife had accused him of asking her to have sex with him in front of strangers at a club.

Kerry, who will try to unseat President Bush in November, said there was no reason for him to release his divorce records.

"It's history, ancient history. My ex-wife and I are terrific friends, very proud of our children. We have stayed close through those years as an extended family," the Massachusetts senator said, adding, "It's none of anybody's business, period."

Kerry is now married to Teresa Heinz Kerry.