Gore won't give it up

[Faos]

I wonder if he'll scream this time.

http://drudgereport.com/flash.htm

AL GORE TO ACCUSE BUSH ADMINISTRATION OF INTENTIONAL DISTORTION ON IRAQ/AL QAEDA TIES IN DC SPEECH THURSDAY

Tue Jun 22 2004 17:28:24 ET

Washington, DC-- In a major Washington policy address this Thursday, former Vice President Al Gore will accuse the Bush Administration of intentionally misleading the American people by continuing to falsely claim a connection between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda.

He will charge that Bush and Cheney have "institutionalized dishonesty as an essential element of their policy process."

Gore will also urge the broadcast media to further resist Administration efforts to manipulate and intimidate them, to fearlessly report the fact that there is no Al Qaeda/Saddam collaborative relationship, as the 9/11 Commission staff report has concluded.

Gore will also discuss the implications of the Administration's claim to be above the law in ordering the torture of suspects - and their claim that the Commander in Chief's power trumps all other laws. He will call for the Administration to reveal all orders given the military on the treatment of prisoners.

[KingCheetah]

Gore won't give it up

Either will you Faosso :)

[andymoon]

Why should he give it up? The administration has repeatedly claimed that Iraq had ties to al Qaeda, even after all of the "evidence" has been thoroughly debunked by every legitimate intelligence agency AND the 9/11 commission.

A particularly egregious example was given on the Daily Show today (or yesterday) where Cheney was being interviewed and emphatically claimed that he NEVER said that the Atta meeting in Prague was substantiated. The next clip was Cheney saying (if my wife wasn't watching the TV, I would quote him) that the Atta meeting had been substantiated and that he believed it to be true.

When the administration gives up on its futile attempts to link Iraq to al Qaeda, I would expect the critics to quiet down about their exaggerated, mistaken, or fabricated "evidence."

[FranchiseBlade]

Originally posted by Faos
I wonder if he'll scream this time.


I hope not. Because if we screams we all know that will mean he's crazy, and lost his mind. God forbid someone should scream after having our nation's principles being sold up the river by this administration.

[111chase111]

Originally posted by andymoon
Why should he give it up? The administration has repeatedly claimed that Iraq had ties to al Qaeda, even after all of the "evidence" has been thoroughly debunked by every legitimate intelligence agency AND the 9/11 commission.

Wait. I thought that the 9/11 commission has stated that there were no Iraqi ties to 9/11 (which is consistant with the adminsitration) but that there were/are ties to Al Queda.

The Democratic leader of the 9/11 commission has even come out to say that the Commission agrees with the administration with regards to ties between Iraq and Al Queda.

It was not the judgment of the commissioners, but merely an assertion of the "runaway" staff headed by ex-N.S.C. [National Security Council] aide Philip Zelikow. "After Vice President Dick Cheney's outraged objection, the staff's sweeping conclusion was soon disavowed by both commission chairman Tom Kean and vice chairman Lee Hamilton," Safire reported.

and

"'Were there contacts between Al Qaida and Iraq?' Kean asked himself. 'Yes ... no question.' Hamilton joined in: 'The vice president is saying, I think, that there were connections ... we don't disagree with that' — just 'no credible evidence' of Iraqi cooperation in the 9/11 attack.'"

Safire: 9/11 Commission's Runaway Staff (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/6/21/130020.shtml)

This was also reported on Meet the Press on Sunday.

[FranchiseBlade]

Originally posted by 111chase111
Wait. I thought that the 9/11 commission has stated that there were no Iraqi ties to 9/11 (which is consistant with the adminsitration) but that there were/are ties to Al Queda.

The Democratic leader of the 9/11 commission has even come out to say that the Commission agrees with the administration with regards to ties between Iraq and Al Queda.



and



Safire: 9/11 Commission's Runaway Staff (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/6/21/130020.shtml)

This was also reported on Meet the Press on Sunday.

The 9/11 commission said there were contacts but no operational connection between Al-Qaeda and Saddam's Iraq.

[Trader_Jorge]

Originally posted by FranchiseBlade
The 9/11 commission said there were contacts but no operational connection between Al-Qaeda and Saddam's Iraq.

Right, the 9-11 commission was in charge of investigating.... 9-11! While there *may* not be a connection between Iraq and 9-11, there is strong evidence that supports an Iraq-al Queda relationship. There is *overwhelming* evidence that Iraq was involved with terror organizations. Citing the 9-11 commission's findings as conclusive evidence that no relationship existed between Iraq and al Queda is ridiculous and intended to deceive. Nice try.

[FranchiseBlade]

Originally posted by Trader_Jorge
Right, the 9-11 commission was in charge of investigating.... 9-11! While there *may* not be a connection between Iraq and 9-11, there is strong evidence that supports an Iraq-al Queda relationship. There is *overwhelming* evidence that Iraq was involved with terror organizations. Citing the 9-11 commission's findings as conclusive evidence that no relationship existed between Iraq and al Queda is ridiculous and intended to deceive. Nice try.

Actually there isn't strong evidence to support an operational relationship between Iraq and Al-Qaeda.

I wasn't the one that brought up the 9/11 commission. I was responding to it. Secondly the 9/11 commission asked for evidence of a relationship, and this recent piece of debunked people with different names is what was supplied.

[RocketMan Tex]

I love it when Bush supporters go apesh*t when Al Gore or anyone else points out the truth about the Bush Administration.

[andymoon]

Originally posted by FranchiseBlade
The 9/11 commission said there were contacts but no operational connection between Al-Qaeda and Saddam's Iraq.

Exactly. Having "contacts" is FAR different from what the administration has been claiming. AQ had and has far more "contacts" with Saudi Arabia and Pakistan than they EVER had with Iraq, so if that is the burden, we should have invaded THEM.

[No Worries]

USA has/had contacts with OBL and al Qaeda. USA openly aided them in their terrorist aka "freedom fighter" agenda.
USA has WMDs, which they publicize for the world to know.
USA harbored the 9/11 terrorists leading up to their attack. USA even trained them to fly plains!!!
GWB must decide that a regime change is necessary in the USA and declare war.

[basso]

it's useful to be reminded gore wasn't always an angry, punitive, liberal:

http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/980217/1998021741.html

Clinton rallies domestic support for strike at Iraq
Iraq, International, 2/17/1998

Even while insisting that the US is exhausting diplomatic efforts to find a peaceful solution to the current Iraqi crisis, US President Bill Clinton spoke at the Pentagon in an effort to drum up domestic support for possible US military strikes against Iraq.

Clinton said the US stands in opposition to the "reckless acts of outlaw nations" and an "unholy axis" of terrorists, drug dealers, and organized crime. While the US would greatly prefer a diplomatic solution to the crisis, Clinton reiterated that the US is ready to use force.

"There can be no dilution" of "the essence" of the UN resolutions, which call for unfettered access, Clinton said. He said that a solution must meet a "clear, immutable, reasonable, simple standard," which is the "free, full, unfettered access" to disputed "presidential sites" in Iraq, access the US has repeatedly called for. "We seek to finish the job" of the UN weapons inspectors, Clinton said.

Clinton admitted that the potential military strikes, which have met with widespread international opposition, would not destroy Iraq's capacity to create weapons of mass destruction, they would, "seriously reduce his [Saddam Hussein's] capacity to threaten his neighbors." Clinton said the strikes would leave Saddam Hussein "worse off" than he is now.

US Vice-President Al Gore said the US is "working around the clock to pursue a possible diplomatic solution to the crisis," but warned "When it comes to protecting our vital national interests, Americans will stand as one."

Clinton said Iraq had repeatedly submitted evaluations of its weapons that were refused by UNSCOM, including six declarations on biological weapons and four on nuclear weapons. He said that when Iraqi reports of weapons capacities were disproven, the Iraqis simply amended the old reports in light of the new evidence. Clinton also said that UNSCOM was effective, although the Iraqis tried to place "debilitating conditions" on their work.

Iraq has called UNSCOM's impartiality and professionalism into question and has proposed an offer -- which the US rejected -- that special teams be formulated by UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan to inspect the presidential sites for a period of two months. The teams could include UNSCOM members.

"Force can never be the first answer, but sometimes it's the only answer," Clinton said.

[basso]

We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

[Rocketman95]

When has anyone here ever argued that the Clinton administration didn't believe that there were WMD in Iraq?

[FranchiseBlade]

Originally posted by basso
it's useful to be reminded gore wasn't always an angry, punitive, liberal:

http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/980217/1998021741.html

Clinton rallies domestic support for strike at Iraq
Iraq, International, 2/17/1998

Even while insisting that the US is exhausting diplomatic efforts to find a peaceful solution to the current Iraqi crisis, US President Bill Clinton spoke at the Pentagon in an effort to drum up domestic support for possible US military strikes against Iraq.

Clinton said the US stands in opposition to the "reckless acts of outlaw nations" and an "unholy axis" of terrorists, drug dealers, and organized crime. While the US would greatly prefer a diplomatic solution to the crisis, Clinton reiterated that the US is ready to use force.

"There can be no dilution" of "the essence" of the UN resolutions, which call for unfettered access, Clinton said. He said that a solution must meet a "clear, immutable, reasonable, simple standard," which is the "free, full, unfettered access" to disputed "presidential sites" in Iraq, access the US has repeatedly called for. "We seek to finish the job" of the UN weapons inspectors, Clinton said.

Clinton admitted that the potential military strikes, which have met with widespread international opposition, would not destroy Iraq's capacity to create weapons of mass destruction, they would, "seriously reduce his [Saddam Hussein's] capacity to threaten his neighbors." Clinton said the strikes would leave Saddam Hussein "worse off" than he is now.

US Vice-President Al Gore said the US is "working around the clock to pursue a possible diplomatic solution to the crisis," but warned "When it comes to protecting our vital national interests, Americans will stand as one."

Clinton said Iraq had repeatedly submitted evaluations of its weapons that were refused by UNSCOM, including six declarations on biological weapons and four on nuclear weapons. He said that when Iraqi reports of weapons capacities were disproven, the Iraqis simply amended the old reports in light of the new evidence. Clinton also said that UNSCOM was effective, although the Iraqis tried to place "debilitating conditions" on their work.

Iraq has called UNSCOM's impartiality and professionalism into question and has proposed an offer -- which the US rejected -- that special teams be formulated by UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan to inspect the presidential sites for a period of two months. The teams could include UNSCOM members.

"Force can never be the first answer, but sometimes it's the only answer," Clinton said.

That strike was a good idea, and according to Kaye it helped wipe out Saddam's WMD's. One great thing about that strike is that it wasn't a full scale invasion that led to the loss of thousands of lives. Excellent job by both Gore and Clinton on this issue.

[FranchiseBlade]

Originally posted by basso
We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

And even though Gore believed the that there were WMD's he was smart enough not to advocate an invasion while we were still fighting Al-Qaeda in their strong hold of Afghanistan. He was wise enough to believe that all options should be pursued prior to an invasion. War should only be a last resort. He was also smart enough to advocate regime change.

All sound policy, even with the misinformation.

[ron413]

Originally posted by FranchiseBlade
And even though Gore believed the that there were WMD's he was smart enough not to advocate an invasion while we were still fighting Al-Qaeda in their strong hold of Afghanistan. He was wise enough to believe that all options should be pursued prior to an invasion. War should only be a last resort. He was also smart enough to advocate regime change.

All sound policy, even with the misinformation.

Your man crush with Al Gore and his left leaning cohorts has distracted you from something called the TRUTH. The truth is that the demoncrats must be very desperate if the best they can come up with is to have Al Gore preaching principles about anything really...

Sorry if that came off as harsh, I am just pissed about the whole TMac/SF3 trade nonsense going on :D

[FranchiseBlade]

Originally posted by ron413
Your man crush with Al Gore and his left leaning cohorts has distracted you from something called the TRUTH. The truth is that the demoncrats must be very desperate if the best they can come up with is to have Al Gore preaching about anything really...

Sorry if that came off as harsh, I am just pissed about the whole TMac/SF3 trade nonsense going on :D

I have no mancrush with Al Gore. I didn't vote for him in the last election, nor did I vote for Clinton before that.

You are right the TRUTH is what we are after, and that is what is missing from Bush's info on Iraq.

Where is the truth in:
The Iraq buying Yellow cake story?

The Aluminum tubes for nuke story

The Iraq is 6 months from a nuke story

The subsequent lies about where Bush got the 6 mo. from Iraq information story.

The Czech meeting between Atta and an Iraqi official

Rumsfeld talking about knowing exactly where the WMD's were and pointing them out on the map.

This most recent junk claiming that a man with a different name was the same man who met with hijackers in Malaysia.

Even if you don't believe that the Bush or his administration intentionally lied in any of that then we should at least be able to admit there is no TRUTH in any of those things. Al Gore so far hasn't been the one witholding the TRUTH.

[ron413]

Will Gore's little lies be big turnoff for voters?
By Aubrey Immelman
Times columnist

"Liar! Liar!" proclaimed the New York Post's front-page headline the day after Democratic nominee Al Gore's first presidential debate against Republican contender George W. Bush.

But careful scrutiny of Gore's penchant for hyperbole and his tendency to garnish the truth with self-serving affectations permits a more nuanced perspective: Gore's embellishments are driven by a confluence of conscientious and introverted personality patterns that constitutes a recipe for haplessness in retail presidential politics.

Conscientious personalities typically are people of integrity — virtuous, hardworking, and loyal to a fault. Yet, ironically, they are prone to bouts of self-doubt over perceived shortcomings or failure to live up to self-imposed, exacting standards of perfection.

As Gore ponders in his environmental treatise, "Earth in the Balance": "A developing child in a dysfunctional family searches his parent's face for signals that he is whole and all is right with the world; when he finds no such approval, he begins to feel that something is wrong inside. And because he doubts his worth and authenticity, he begins controlling his inner experience — smothering spontaneity, masking emotion, diverting creativity into robotic routine, and distracting an awareness of all he is missing with an unconvincing replica of what he might have been."

In short, the conscientious character dreads disapproval, with a corresponding tendency to overvalue aspects of themselves that signify perfectionism, moral rectitude, and diligence. Few things give them greater satisfaction than
showcasing their virtues and convincing others that they are right. Perhaps unfairly, but not surprisingly, others regard such conduct as self-righteous, moralistic, overbearing, and condescending.

For example ...

Political commentator Tony Snow provides a striking account of this proclivity in Gore. When forest fires ravaged Florida in the summer of 1998, President Clinton dispatched Vice President Gore to commiserate with the victims.

"After surveying the carnage," writes Snow, "Gore stepped to a podium, and informed the throng that the tragedy served as a powerful reminder of what global warming could do to the planet. ... His artless lecture on global warming wasn't an isolated incident. ... [Gore] constantly instructs others on lifestyles, manners and habits. Indeed, fresh from his Florida trip, he showed up on the Mall in Washington, armed with a meat thermometer and a spatula. ... 'Don't let avoidable food-borne illness endanger life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness,' he said."

While Gore's overconscientiousness adequately accounts for his compulsive need to flaunt perfection and erudition, it fails to fully account for his political ineptitude and lack of social graces.

Enter the strong introversive streak that permeates and colors Gore's conscientiousness. Deeply introverted personalities frequently fail to respond
appropriately to social cues, which gives rise to interpersonal awkwardness and difficulty in social communication.

They are restricted in the ability to perceive emotional meaning or express feelings in social settings. Their social communications sometimes are convoluted, obscure, and abstruse.

Simplify, please

In "Gore: A Political Life," biographer Bob Zelnick relates a particularly fascinating instance of this tendency in Gore. This is how the vice president explained to the Washington Post his decision to enter divinity school upon his return from Vietnam:

"I think a lot of people who have faith in this day and age try to find ways to reconcile their faith with what initially appear to be challenges to that faith. ... The best known are Galileo, which displaced the Earth as the center of the universe; Darwin, which places us in the animal kingdom; Freud, which displaced consciousness as the sole process of thought; Einstein, which destroyed the concept of solidity and matter. And today the existence of massive starvation and the prospect of nuclear holocaust side by side with the whole idea of progress and civilization makes one question where we are going. But the answer is within ourselves."

A simple "I felt a calling to the ministry" would have done.

But as Timothy Noah has written in U.S. News & World Report, there is a facet of the mind of "Albert the Brainiac" that obfuscates messages by "weighing down simple ideas with pretentious, often scientific allusions."

Highly introverted personalities rarely are introspective; as personality expert Theodore Millon explains, "the satisfactions to be found in self-evaluations are minimal" for individuals with a diminished capacity to experience deep emotions.

According to Millon, these personalities are hampered by a tendency to overlook, scatter, and coalesce the varied elements of their experience. Consequently, they may fail to differentiate events and discern their discriminable and distinctive aspects.

If this is the case, perhaps Gore really did believe that he had traveled to Texas with FEMA director James Lee Witt, or that he was serving in Congress when the Strategic Petroleum Reserve was established.

Gore's problem, then, may be less "fuzzy math" than fuzzy memory about events and faulty perception of his personal role in events. With respect to presidential leadership and public policy, this raises questions not of character, but of reality testing and judgment.

For better or for worse, Al Gore is no Bill Clinton. For Gore, stretching the truth reflects a compulsive drive for perfection and deficits in social intelligence, not perfidious dishonesty or a flaw of moral character.

Nonetheless, it raises disquieting questions about his common sense and insight, his ability to relate to the public, the Congress, and world leaders, and his capacity to perform crucial duties constitutionally entrusted to the president.

Beyond simply being a matter of credibility, Gore's long track record of factual flourishes boils down to a question of leadership. No leader is perfect. But the challenge for voters in the next two weeks is to determine the meaning and leadership implications of the vice president's tendency to exaggerate, and to resolve the difficult question of how much embellishment they can tolerate in a president.

http://www.csbsju.edu/uspp/Election/gore102200.htm

[Faos]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&u=/nm/20040624/pl_nm/iraq_usa_gore_dc_3&printer=1

Gore Says Bush Lied About Iraq to Push for War, blah, blah, blah, yadda, yadda, yadda





WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Former U.S. Vice President Al Gore on Thursday accused President Bush of telling "an artful and important lie" soon after the Sept. 11 attacks to set the stage for war on Iraq.

"Beginning very soon after the attacks of 9/11, President Bush made a decision to start mentioning Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein in the same breath in a cynical mantra designed to fuse them together as one in the public's mind," Gore said in a speech at Georgetown University Law Center.

Gore, a Democrat who lost to Bush in a White House race ultimately decided by the Supreme Court despite winning the popular vote in 2000, cited the recent report by the Sept. 11 commission saying no credible evidence existed of a link between the Iraqi leader and bin Laden.


He said Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney continue to argue for a connection between bin Laden's al Qaeda network and the deposed Iraqi regime because it supports their push for war in Iraq and justifies "some of the new power they've picked up from the Congress and the courts" since the 2001 hijack attacks in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania.


"As a result, President Bush is now intentionally misleading the American people," Gore said. "Indeed, Bush's consistent and careful artifice is itself evidence that he knew full well that he was telling an artful and important lie -- visibly circumnavigating the truth over and over again as if he had practiced how to avoid encountering the truth."


In an hour-long address punctuated by polite laughter and applause, Gore also accused the Bush administration of working closely "with a network of 'rapid response' digital Brown Shirts who work to pressure reporters and their editors for 'undermining support for our troops."'

[B-Bob]

Hey faos,

Nice sig. Just kidding. In what ways can one compare the Civil War with the elective invasion and occupation of Iraq? Oh, that's right: zero ways. Thanks for that signature.

By the way, I don't care about Gore's sex life. Didn't we get enough of that with Clinton. Sheesh. If Al won't give it up for Tipper, well that's between them and maybe a sex therapist. Leave him alone!

[Batman Jones]

Hilarious, but very enlightening, that Faos only hears blah, blah, yadda yadda when Gore explains the trick Bush pulled on people like Faos. Especially hilarious after he started the latest in a series of threads pushing bogus stories about links between Al Qaeda and Iraq and went poof when the GOP went oops. Textbook irony. Get shamed in one thread, disappear, and post later in another one to call the very same truth that shamed you a lot of blah, blah, blah.

[MadMax]

Faos -- seriously...that sig....that means we don't have a president but an emperor. that's not good. we have congress to check that...to make sure we don't end up with a dictator.

"young fool...only now...at the end...do you understand."

http://www.blueharvest.net/images/closeups/emperor.jpg

[B-Bob]

Max, come on. There are more flattering pictures of Ashcroft than that one. He does smile on occasion, and he only wears that stylin' cord hoodie when he's away from the office.

[Trader_Jorge]

Originally posted by Batman Jones
Hilarious, but very enlightening, that Faos only hears blah, blah, yadda yadda when Gore explains the trick Bush pulled on people like Faos. Especially hilarious after he started the latest in a series of threads pushing bogus stories about links between Al Qaeda and Iraq and went poof when the GOP went oops. Textbook irony. Get shamed in one thread, disappear, and post later in another one to call the very same truth that shamed you a lot of blah, blah, blah.

Batman, you must be the last man on this planet that can't admit that Al Gore has gone bonkers after losing to GDubs in 2000. Gore can't even go out in public without blowing his stack. He has become one with the lunatic fringe.


BONKERS

[ima_drummer2k]

Who is this Al Gore you speak of?

[Batman Jones]

Originally posted by Trader_Jorge
Batman, you must be the last man on this planet that can't admit that Al Gore has gone bonkers after losing to GDubs in 2000. Gore can't even go out in public without blowing his stack. He has become one with the lunatic fringe.


BONKERS

Oh, hi Jorge! I thought maybe you quit the BBS after you went poof in the Al Qaeda connection thread, but I guess it was just you going poof like you usually do.

Bonkers, yeah. Shame on him for raising his voice about conditions in America when only around 65% of Americans think the country's headed in the wrong direction. Now if only Kerry would go "bonkers."

[MadMax]

Originally posted by B-Bob
Max, come on. There are more flattering pictures of Ashcroft than that one. He does smile on occasion, and he only wears that stylin' cord hoodie when he's away from the office.

stylin cord hoodie may be my new favorite phrase

[basso]

Originally posted by Batman Jones
Now if only Kerry would go "bonkers."

oh please, oh please, oh please...and let it be in one of the debates!

[andymoon]

Originally posted by ima_drummer2k
Who is this Al Gore you speak of?

The guy who got more votes than GWB in the 2000 election.

[B-Bob]

Originally posted by MadMax
stylin cord hoodie may be my new favorite phrase
Should be your new moniker once the mods refuse to rename you Smarty Jones.

But yeah, I've been en fuego today, in my own mind of course. My favorite post was when I told bnb "don't bring a hirsuit midget to a robot fight" after he said Prince deserved a forum more than Styx (AS IF!) or something like that. Such quality.

[andymoon]

Originally posted by basso
oh please, oh please, oh please...and let it be in one of the debates!

Riiiight. Like Rove is going to allow any debates.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by B-Bob
Should be your new moniker once the mods refuse to rename you Smarty Jones.

But yeah, I've been en fuego today, in my own mind of course. My favorite post was when I told bnb "don't bring a hirsuit midget to a robot fight" after he said Prince deserved a forum more than Styx (AS IF!) or something like that. Such quality.

yeah..i don't think the renaming is going to happen, sadly!

brilliant posts!!! you are a man possessed.

[Trader_Jorge]

Originally posted by Batman Jones
Oh, hi Jorge! I thought maybe you quit the BBS after you went poof in the Al Qaeda connection thread, but I guess it was just you going poof like you usually do.

Bonkers, yeah. Shame on him for raising his voice about conditions in America when only around 65% of Americans think the country's headed in the wrong direction. Now if only Kerry would go "bonkers."

Ho ho ho! Somebody is still upset that Howard Dean went BONKERS and left the Deaniacs out in the cold. I hope Forbes Kerry does go BONKERS. May he suffer the same fate as Howard Dean -- THE BONE SAW

Batman, I do not go poof. I make my very salient points, win arguments and exit. I don't hang around while you and yours flounder around groping for new ways to redirect your misfortunes. I don't hang around while your army of kook fringe liberals jumps in to try to help you.

To steal a line from Christopher Walken -- I put my pants on just like the rest of you -- one leg at a time. Except, once my pants are on... I win arguments. Judging from most of your arguments, you get caught with your pants down.

EXPOSED

[MadMax]

Originally posted by Trader_Jorge
Ho ho ho! Somebody is still upset that Howard

To steal a line from Christopher Walken -- I put my pants on just like the rest of you -- one leg at a time. Except, once my pants are on... I win arguments.



Hold up....this use of the obscure Walken quote wins post of the day, hands down!!!

[Faos]

Originally posted by Trader_Jorge

To steal a line from Christopher Walken -- I put my pants on just like the rest of you -- one leg at a time. Except, once my pants are on... I win arguments. Judging from most of your arguments, you get caught with your pants down.

EXPOSED

There is no comeback for that TJ wins...again.

[B-Bob]

Originally posted by Faos
There is no comeback for that TJ wins...again.
Yes, in terms of childish, vacuous taunts, all you conservative shills, from Rush, Hannity, Rove, "_" and the whole gang... absolutely take the top honors.

Impressive. Real arguments are not won with homoerotic references to other posters' pants being removed. I know that might be difficult to grasp but sleep on it.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by B-Bob


Impressive. Real arguments are not won with homoerotic references to other posters' pants being removed. I know that might be difficult to grasp but sleep on it.


what??? seriously??? awwwww...maaaannnn. :confused:

[B-Bob]

Originally posted by MadMax
what??? seriously???
Well, okay, ... sometimes. But only at meetings between scientists. And sometimes in court... depending on whether or not the judge is wearing a robe. :D

[Faos]

Originally posted by B-Bob
Yes, in terms of childish, vacuous taunts, all you conservative shills, from Rush, Hannity, Rove, "_" and the whole gang... absolutely take the top honors.

Impressive. Real arguments are not won with homoerotic references to other posters' pants being removed. I know that might be difficult to grasp but sleep on it.

Typical liberal elitist attitude. Very Kerry-ish of you.

What if the references were made to ex-presidents who've had their pants removed by interns in the Oval Office? Would it be ok then?

[Batman Jones]

1. One more in a long line of bogus stories about an Al Qaeda-Iraq connect is posted

2. Jorge demands that I and other posters defend ourselves against the bogus story.

3. We do.

4. The story is proven bogus.

5. GOP says oops. Again.

6. Jorge goes poof. Again. Declares victory.

7. Faos, having also gone poof after his story was proven bogus, says Jorge wins again.

8. Batman laughs up a lung.

Originally posted by Trader_Jorge
EXPOSED

Indeed.

[Trader_Jorge]

^
^
^
You see, this is the garbage that I'm talking about. I went Walken on you. I went BONE SAW on you. I won the argument. You simply won't let it go after your loss. Sometimes you've got to know when to fold 'em, son. I'm already on to my next conquest, meanwhile you linger here and accuse people of poofing.

[Faos]

Originally posted by Batman Jones
7. Faos, having also gone poof after his story was proven bogus, says Jorge wins again.



Nothing was proven.

[B-Bob]

Originally posted by Faos
What if the references were made to ex-presidents who've had their pants removed by interns in the Oval Office? Would it be ok then?
Huh? I just can't uderstand your system of logic.

1. _Jorge makes homoerotic jokes. Declares victory in "argument," as per formula.
2. Faos supports the victory claim.
3. B-Bob points out that _Jorge posted a homoerotic joke, not argumentation.
4. Faos calls B-Bob an elitist and then asks permission to make reference to Clinton's affair with Lewinsky.

Can anyone 'splain this to me? :confused:

Faos, it is always okay for you to mention Clinton's pants being removed -- many people have obsessed over it for many years, especially Ken Starr, so let your mind go with it. From what I can tell, you and the other Clinton Haters replay an imaginary scene over and over, where his pants are removed in slow motion, perhaps in romantic black-and-white.

But I only ask that you not mistake silly jokes about pants with any sort of real argument. I think that makes me sensible, not elitist.

Here's what I think would actually make me elitist: "I am better than you because I have memorized the words to MR_ROBOTO and you have to look them up." While that is probably true, it would still be an elitist statement. Also, see the collected speeches of Dr. Gori for good examples of elitism.

[FranchiseBlade]

Originally posted by Faos
Nothing was proven.

IT was proven. The fact that the guy who met with al-qaeda has different name than the person in Saddam's Fedayeen, and that intel officials already looked at it, and said that it wasn't the same person, is about as clear of proof as it gets.

[gifford1967]

Originally posted by FranchiseBlade
IT was proven. The fact that the guy who met with al-qaeda has different name than the person in Saddam's Fedayeen, and that intel officials already looked at it, and said that it wasn't the same person, is about as clear of proof as it gets.



(Holding hands over ears with eyes shut)

lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala

[Faos]

Originally posted by B-Bob
Huh? I just can't uderstand your system of logic.



It's not a system, trust me.

I have a headache and have been sick all week. You'll have to excuse me.

But TJ still bone sawed you (whatever that means). :)

[B-Bob]

Originally posted by Faos
I have a headache and have been sick all week. You'll have to excuse me.
But TJ still bone sawed you (whatever that means). :)
:) Sorry you're feeling sick, Faos. Headaches are the absolute worst. Hope you don't have migraines.

But please. T_J claimed to bone-saw Batman, not me. When he steps to me, _Jorge uses terms of great reverence and submissive sexual inuendo, like "Sizzlechest."

[ima_drummer2k]

Originally posted by B-Bob
Impressive. Real arguments are not won with homoerotic references to other posters' pants being removed.
B-Bob, I take it you're not an SNL fan because you totally missed that post and it's reference to the greatest SNL skit ever.

Bruce Dickinson: I'll be honest.. fellas, it was sounding great. But.. I could've used a little more cowbell. So.. let's take it again.. and, Gene....Really explore the studio space this time. I mean, really.. explore the space. I like what I'm hearing!

http://snlibc.jt.org/Cowbell.gif

[B-Bob]

Which one is Walken? Anyway, mea culpa: looks like the post was actually a homoerotic use of a reference to a TV comedy skit. But I'll take your word on it being funny... the TV comedy skit, that is.
;)

[ima_drummer2k]

Originally posted by B-Bob
Which one is Walken?
He's Bruce Dickinson....yes, THE Bruce Dickinson. He's back in the control room. :D

[B-Bob]

Thanks. I constantly require education like this.

[Batman Jones]

Originally posted by Faos
But TJ still bone sawed you (whatever that means). :)

It doesn't mean anything. Once upon a time Jorge actually tried to win arguments. It's been a while. Now you just blow on him and he falls over. And then claims victory. It's like Troy Barros showing up to say, see, I told you Steve wouldn't play with Yao. It's impossible to understand what he means by declaring victory over that last embarassing disappearing act. Both of you guys made a bogus claim, challenged us to defend ourselves, you were proven (yes, proven, absolutely) wrong and you both totally disappeared from the thread. How Jorge claims victory out of that (and how you support his claim) is beyond bizarre.

[rimrocker]

Originally posted by B-Bob
Hey faos,

Nice sig. Just kidding. In what ways can one compare the Civil War with the elective invasion and occupation of Iraq? Oh, that's right: zero ways. Thanks for that signature.


This, however, might bear a little on the current situation...

"Individuals have international duties which transcend the national obligations of obedience…Therefore [individual citizens] have the duty to violate domestic laws to prevent crimes against peace and humanity from occurring"

-- Nuremberg War Crime Tribunal, 1950

[basso]

i just realized, according to Godwin's Law (http://info.astrian.net/jargon/terms/g/Godwin_s_Law.html) Gore pretty much lost his arguement as soon as he made the brownshirt allusion.

[gwayneco]

"They dare not admit the truth lest they look like complete fools for launching our country into a reckless, discretionary war against a nation that posed no immediate threat to us whatsoever." Al Gore - June 24, 2004

“Even if we give first priority to the destruction of terrorist networks, and even if we succeed, there are still governments that could bring us great harm. And there is a clear case that one of these governments in particular represents a virulent threat in a class by itself: Iraq. As far as I am concerned, a final reckoning with that government should be on the table." - Al Gore, Remarks To The U.S. Council On Foreign Relations, Washington, DC, February 12, 2002.

[MacBeth]

Originally posted by gwayneco
"They dare not admit the truth lest they look like complete fools for launching our country into a reckless, discretionary war against a nation that posed no immediate threat to us whatsoever." Al Gore - June 24, 2004

“Even if we give first priority to the destruction of terrorist networks, and even if we succeed, there are still governments that could bring us great harm. And there is a clear case that one of these governments in particular represents a virulent threat in a class by itself: Iraq. As far as I am concerned, a final reckoning with that government should be on the table." - Al Gore, Remarks To The U.S. Council On Foreign Relations, Washington, DC, February 12, 2002.


I think that Saddam, were he to be freed, would represent a threat to his fellow Iraqis. I believe a final reckoning is on the table for him, as it should be.

Doesn't mean I'm gonna advocate sending in a S.W.A.T. team to bust into his jail cell, kill any guards who get in the way, and once there excecute him because of the threat he represents to us. He was nullified.

[basso]

has gore been watching SNL? courtesy of opinionjournal:

From a "Saturday Night Live" sketch that aired Dec._13, 2003, in which Darrell Hammond played Al Gore and Jeff Richards played Howard Dean:

Hammond: As Paul Krugman has pointed out in the New York Times, George W. Bush is not only the worst president in American history; he is the worst leader of any nation on Earth going back more than 500 years.

Richards: Really? I mean, I'm no fan of President Bush, but what about Hitler?

Hammond: No. 3.

From a June_24, 2004, speech in which Al Gore played Al Gore:

Gore: The [Bush] administration works closely with a network of "rapid response" digital brownshirts who work to pressure reporters and their editors for "undermining support for our troops." Paul Krugman, the New York Times columnist, was one of the first journalists to regularly expose the President's consistent distortions of the facts. Krugman writes, "Let's not overlook the role of intimidation. After 9/11, if you were thinking of saying anything negative of the President ._._. you had to expect right-wing pundits and publications to do all they could to ruin your reputation."

[RocketMan Tex]

Originally posted by basso
has gore been watching SNL? courtesy of opinionjournal:

From a "Saturday Night Live" sketch that aired Dec._13, 2003, in which Darrell Hammond played Al Gore and Jeff Richards played Howard Dean:

Hammond: As Paul Krugman has pointed out in the New York Times, George W. Bush is not only the worst president in American history; he is the worst leader of any nation on Earth going back more than 500 years.

Richards: Really? I mean, I'm no fan of President Bush, but what about Hitler?

Hammond: No. 3.

From a June_24, 2004, speech in which Al Gore played Al Gore:

Gore: The [Bush] administration works closely with a network of "rapid response" digital brownshirts who work to pressure reporters and their editors for "undermining support for our troops." Paul Krugman, the New York Times columnist, was one of the first journalists to regularly expose the President's consistent distortions of the facts. Krugman writes, "Let's not overlook the role of intimidation. After 9/11, if you were thinking of saying anything negative of the President ._._. you had to expect right-wing pundits and publications to do all they could to ruin your reputation."

basso, point out the inaccuracy in what Gore had to say on 6/24...

[Batman Jones]

Originally posted by RocketMan Tex
basso, point out the inaccuracy in what Gore had to say on 6/24...

He can't. He'll just talk about the use of the word brownshirts. I don't actually get the significance, but I'm guessing it's a Nazi reference. Out of the entire long, damning speech these guys can only take issue with Gore's volume and a single word that Cheney's party found indelicate.

[FranchiseBlade]

Originally posted by Batman Jones
He can't. He'll just talk about the use of the word brownshirts. I don't actually get the significance, but I'm guessing it's a Nazi reference. Out of the entire long, damning speech these guys can only take issue with Gore's volume and a single word that Cheney's party found indelicate.

They should take issue with Gore's volume. If the conservatives have taught me anything it's that raising your voice means your crazy, and can't so far detatched from reality that factual well thought out words don't really matter.

[basso]

Originally posted by RocketMan Tex
basso, point out the inaccuracy in what Gore had to say on 6/24...

actually, i was just pointing out the odd similarity between the snl skit's use of krugman and nazi imagery to what gore actually said 6 months later...