On positive note...

[Doc Rocket]

For all those who look for the positive, let's look at this:

I LOVE looking at per 48 minutes played. Don't know why - just love it.

Here's what I see..

Lue averages 16/6.5 a game Per 48.
DeClergq averages 13 boards a game per 48 as did Cato..BUT, AD shot better from the field, FT line but Cato was better defensively.

Now, you throw in Juwan Howard who avgs 23 and 9 per 48 and shoots over 80% as well from the line. Not bad for the 2 big men.

Steve was at 19/6/7 per 48 minutes and Cat was at 18/5/3 per 48.

Now, I understand that stats don't mean everything but you throw in a guy who's at 34/7/7 roughly, I mean, come on!!!

You don't have to say that you want to trade Steve but we're not 'GUTTING OUR FRANCHISE' as some have said here.

Nope, you add TMAC to Yao and we're on our way. 25 and 23? Heck, give me a Nick Van Exel, Antonio McD, Brent Barry, or a Troy hudson,etc..??? No depth??

Steve haters can not spin this deal their way. What's Troy Baros' take on this deal?

[BobFinn*]

Great deal from Houston's perspective any way you look at it:cool:

[Doc Rocket]

I meant Steve Lovers - I'm a hater - I just forgot how much hate I had. Won't make that mistake again - Hate hate hate...

That feels better (Exhale)

[thacabbage]

No matter what angle I try to look at this deal, I can't find a negative. I'm kind of speechless right now. I don't know if it's due to the fact that we just paired Tracy McGrady with Yao Ming or the fact that it seems the majority of these idiot callers on 610 are actually against this trade. I lose hope in humanity at times.

[Man]

man sounds great. It's awesome!

TMAC amazingly wonderful lol he's just 25 years old. He is one of the top 5 elite superstars! YAO MING is just 23 years old. We still have the MLE and the trade exception..so many point guards are available. The guy on 610 AM said "we don't need a jason kidd". Remember..with clyde and charles and hakeem, matt maloney was our point guard. We already got Kevin Ollie and Tyronn Lue right? Mike Wilks is gone I guess. I think NVE, Hudson, Barry, and Fisher are all quite adequate. I love all of them. NVE is 32...Barry is a bit older? Fisher is 31 or something? Hudson is the youngest..but not much younger. We need shooters now. Right now, all we have is Jimmy Jackson. All four of these guys are shooters. This is great.

[BigSexy]

You all better jump on the bandwagon now while you can, because when the rockets start to dominate, then it will be too late to say "i knew they would dominate" blah blah blah.

It such a good time to be a Rockets fan:cool: :)

[The Real Shady]

Anyway you look at it we're getting Tracy McfrickenGraddy! You don't pass up a chance to get a superstar of his calibar. No way.

[BobFinn*]

Wait, he's TMACoMING:D

[Sherlock]

Way to go, CD ... :)

[Doc Rocket]

Originally posted by BobFinn*
Wait, he's TMACoMING:D

Why am I uncomfortable reading that, and now, uncomfortable reading my own signature? :D

[thumbs]

Doc Rocket: Wouldn't we be better off with Drew Gooden instead of Juwon Howard (youth versus underachievement); with Reece Gaines over Tyron Lue (6-6 youth over 6-0 backup); and Zaza Pachulia over Andy DeClercq (size and better shot over someone 10 years his elder)?

[Aruba77]

Doc, you are the man.

Part of my heart is going with Mobley, but I am definately for the trade. Let's go after Hudson hard, we need a shooter.

[Doc Rocket]

Make no mistake - I HATE the fact that we're losing Mobley - HATE IT!! But, you have to give up something to get something.

My question is this - who starts at the 2 for the Western Conf. AllStars?

Does Steve ever start another AllStar Game?


Hmm....oh well, he's TMacoMing!

[Oski2005]

I forgot he was only 25, that is another huge plus.

[Man]

On Rockets.com, it says that Kareem Rush is a candidate? But I do not want to register at latimes.com I would love him..spot up shooter! Very nice.

Barry or NVE or Hudson or Fisher/Rush/Lue/Ollie
Tmac/Rush
Jimmy/Rush/Adrian lol
Howard/Taylor
Yao/Declerq

There are many possibilities!

TMAC AND YAO GO ROCKETS!!!

[Nick]

Hey Doc... if you make a donation, you can edit your posts... :D

J/K... continue to set these people straight. I'm just waiting for the first idiot to come up with an argument against THIS post...

[Rockets34Legend]

Doc, you really think picking up DeClerq is going to pick up the slack from Cato's hardwork?

And Lue, is he going to be a backup competing w/ Ollie or going to be our starting PG?

Is Howard the PF fit for this team?

The Rockets, if they give up Boki to Orlando, I think they have given up a lot.

[SmeggySmeg]

Originally posted by Doc Rocket
Make no mistake - I HATE the fact that we're losing Mobley - HATE IT!! But, you have to give up something to get something.



thanks for this Doc... i completely agree

i am so torn... i know i will get nothing done at work today... part of me is jumping for joy at getting Tmac for Steve and other is wanting vommit, cry and still shaking for losing Cat.....

i need a stiff drink (at 11am)

[declan32001]

I'm too tired right now of reading this stuff. But Doc Rocket, thank you.

Now will some of you guys look around and confirm the 37/7/7 per 48 guy Doc's talking about is T-Mac? The per 48 stat is one of the most misleading there is. I'm going to bed.

[Doc Rocket]

Originally posted by Nick
Hey Doc... if you make a donation, you can edit your posts... :D

J/K... continue to set these people straight. I'm just waiting for the first idiot to come up with an argument against THIS post...

I have made a donation to Clutch...we just can't say what it is!!! (Obviously, it's not enough to be able to edit!!) :D

[Rockets34Legend]

Originally posted by Man
On Rockets.com, it says that Kareem Rush is a candidate? But I do not want to register at latimes.com I would love him..spot up shooter! Very nice.

Barry or NVE or Hudson or Fisher/Rush/Lue/Ollie
Tmac/Rush
Jimmy/Rush/Adrian lol
Howard/Taylor
Yao/Declerq

There are many possibilities!

TMAC AND YAO GO ROCKETS!!!

Man, the link is to Rudy T trying to be coach of the Lakers.

[JPM0016]

i'm certainly looking forward in having 2 big guards McGrady, and hopefully Brent Barry feeding Yao in the post. Plus, who wouldn't want Barry and his 45% 3 point shooting

[Nick]

Originally posted by Doc Rocket
I have made a donation to Clutch...we just can't say what it is!!! (Obviously, it's not enough to be able to edit!!) :D

This post alone sums up why I love this site so freakin much...

[HAYJON02]

So what tempo do you think this team will play at? More fast break (certainly more effecient on the break than Francos), or more half-court post up pick and roll slashing cutting stop and popping action?

Do we want a fast pg who can push the ball or one who's more of the Matt Maloney mold who is an efficient passer and can hit 3's? I think who we get at pg will determine alot of our pace. Either way, we don't need anyone mindblowing yet. Although a Fisher or Payton would be ideal...

Ok, I've been reading this for the last 4 hours. I'm gonna go use my energy and excitement to squeeze out a couple miles on the track. Please... FEEDBACK. LET THE FEEDBACK BEGIN!!!!!! :cool:

[Oski2005]

On another positive note, this T-Mac business seems to have shut down the D&D forum.

[Jeff]

Originally posted by Man
man sounds great.

You think you sound great? :)

From my perspective, you have to analyze this as whoever gets the best player wins. That is the Rockets. Period.

Not only that, but RARELY (if ever) does the opportunity come up to get a 25-year-old superstar just beginning the upside of his career, particularly if you can pair him with a 23-year-old just discovering what it means to be great in this league.

Whatever that means for THIS season is relatively unimportant, although McGrady, Yao and a variety of also-rans is still pretty damn good. What is most important is what that means for the franchise in the future.

Not only will it make it easier to bring in other players (like LA, they'll want to play with our tandem), but it will make the Rockets one of, if not the, most marketable franchise in the NBA and one of the most marketable in all of sports. That is a big deal not just for the current players and organization and city but for the ability to lure other players here in the future.

I remember that movie Late Shift about the Letterman/Leno thing back in the early 90's. Mike Ovitz' character (Letterman's agent at the time) said that if he went to CBS, he would become their number one most marketable superstar and "I cannot put a price tag on that." Same deal here.

[Severe Rockets Fan]

Originally posted by JPM0016
i'm certainly looking forward in having 2 big guards McGrady, and hopefully Brent Barry feeding Yao in the post. Plus, who wouldn't want Barry and his 45% 3 point shooting
Amen. :D If CD pulls all this off this offseason I'll never doubt him again!

[SmeggySmeg]

a new version for a new hope

<img src="http://bbs.heypartner.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=444">

[MrRolo]

hahaha thats great

[Man]

Originally posted by declan32001
I'm too tired right now of reading this stuff. But Doc Rocket, thank you.

Now will some of you guys look around and confirm the 37/7/7 per 48 guy Doc's talking about is T-Mac? The per 48 stat is one of the most misleading there is. I'm going to bed.

He said 34...

Rookie season - 19 ppg/11.2 rebounds/4 assists
2nd - 20/12/5
3rd - 24/10/5
4th - 32/9/6
5th - 32/10/7
6th - 39/8/7
7th/last - 34/7/7

This trade better happen lol. Maybe we'll get Eric Snow..Earl Boykins? James Posey?

[Bassfly]

Originally posted by Doc Rocket
For all those who look for the positive, let's look at this:

I LOVE looking at per 48 minutes played. Don't know why - just love it.

Here's what I see..

Lue averages 16/6.5 a game Per 48.
DeClergq averages 13 boards a game per 48 as did Cato..BUT, AD shot better from the field, FT line but Cato was better defensively.

Now, you throw in Juwan Howard who avgs 23 and 9 per 48 and shoots over 80% as well from the line. Not bad for the 2 big men.

Steve was at 19/6/7 per 48 minutes and Cat was at 18/5/3 per 48.

Now, I understand that stats don't mean everything but you throw in a guy who's at 34/7/7 roughly, I mean, come on!!!

You don't have to say that you want to trade Steve but we're not 'GUTTING OUR FRANCHISE' as some have said here.

Nope, you add TMAC to Yao and we're on our way. 25 and 23? Heck, give me a Nick Van Exel, Antonio McD, Brent Barry, or a Troy hudson,etc..??? No depth??

Steve haters can not spin this deal their way. What's Troy Baros' take on this deal?




DeClerq is the worst NBA player in the league. No statistical evidence can convince otherwise... his defining moment in his career was allowing Yao Ming to score 41 points on him. J. Howard, Lue, DeClerq probably arent on our team 3 years from now, McGrady is hte only person to mention in this trade, the others are just scrubs to fill in holes. J. Howard is a good scoring option, but just a Mo Taylor clone. Now we have the softest frontcourt in the NBA; let's hope we can fill in our roster with legitimate starters. Orlando is making away with 3 legitimate starters, and (if Boki is involved) another player who potentially become a starters; whereas the Rockets are getting players who start but should be backups. You still do this trade for McGrady though, but lets not sugarcoat it and kid ourselves. DeClerq/Lue/Howard are jokes.

[SmeggySmeg]

DeClerq's best skills are his ability to get 6 fouls quickly and that his name sounds like a bad guy in a Lethal Weapon movie

[Dr of Dunk]

Originally posted by Doc Rocket
I have made a donation to Clutch...we just can't say what it is!!! (Obviously, it's not enough to be able to edit!!) :D

I dunno man, all I ever see you do is crash servers with your posts. ;)

[DaDakota]

Is Nachbar part of the deal or not?

I really hope not.

DD

[Dr of Dunk]

Originally posted by Man
On Rockets.com, it says that Kareem Rush is a candidate? But I do not want to register at latimes.com I would love him..spot up shooter! Very nice.


It says "Lakers Rush In Candidate". As in Rudy T is a candidate for the coaching job. He's flying out there to meet with Jerry Buss tomorrow.

[ChenZhen]

Originally posted by DaDakota
Is Nachbar part of the deal or not?

I really hope not.

DD

Please say no Doc Rocket, please say no! :(

[SmeggySmeg]

not sure why but these lyrics just keep going thru my head

Oh yeah
Mm
Still don’t know what I was waiting for
And my time was running wild
A million dead-end streets and
Every time I thought I’d got it made
It seemed the taste was not so sweet
So I turned myself to face me
But I’ve never caught a glimpse
Of how the others must see the faker
I’m much too fast to take that test

Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes
(turn and face the strain)
Ch-ch-changes
Don’t want to be a richer man
Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes
(turn and face the strain)
Ch-ch-changes
Just gonna have to be a different man
Time may change me
But I can’t trace time

I watch the ripples change their size
But never leave the stream
Of warm impermanence
So the days float through my eyes
But stil the days seem the same
And these children that you spit on
As they try to change their worlds
Are immune to your consultations
They’re quite aware of what they’re going through

Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes
(turn and face the strain)
Ch-ch-changes
Don’t tell them to grow up and out of it
Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes
(turn and face the strain)
Ch-ch-changes
Where’s your shame
You’ve left us up to our necks in it
Time may change me
But you can’t trace time

Strange fascination, fascinating me
Ah changes are taking the pace I’m going through

Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes
(turn and face the strain)
Ch-ch-changes
Oh, look out you rock ’n rollers
Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes
(turn and face the strain)
Ch-ch-changes
Pretty soon now you’re gonna get a little older
Time may change me
But I can’t trace time
I said that time may change me
But I can’t trace time

[RocketsPimp]

Originally posted by SmeggySmeg
thanks for this Doc... i completely agree

i am so torn... i know i will get nothing done at work today... part of me is jumping for joy at getting Tmac for Steve and other is wanting vommit, cry and still shaking for losing Cat.....

i need a stiff drink (at 11am)

As awesome as it could be having Yao and T-Mac together, I'm in total denial about losing Mobes.

Can't we trade them Behad and a 7 year contract of BBQ instead?

[SmeggySmeg]

Originally posted by RocketsPimp
As awesome as it could be having Yao and T-Mac together, I'm in total denial about losing Mobes.

Can't we trade them Behad and a 7 year contract of BBQ instead?

denial is a complete understatement in my case Pimp.. check you mail

[Doc Rocket]

When I was told of the trade today earlier, I told Clutch that Boki was NOT mentioned in the deal. No, from what I've read, he may be but my guy told me that it was EXACTLY as Feigen reported.

Agina, I HATE to lose Cat and I HATE to lose Boki. It is alot there's no doubt. But, like Jeff said, take the BEST PLAYER. We now have 2 of the best players in the league in our starting 5. I know I was spinning the "greatness of DeClerq.' It was a little but tongue in cheek. However, filling our bench is NOT going to be a problem. Why dos everyone think that the trading stops with this deal? This deal is just starting the movement. Our bench will be adequate enough and our 4 will be addressed.

Stop worrying about all this - The Rockets ar on the verge of adding TMAC!

(VERY whinely) "But what about our depth? What about out bench?" Waahhhhh! It'll be addressed but CD and JVG obviously feel that acquiring TMAC is a tad more important than getting getting another bench player.

hmm..

[Pat]

I ran the Francis/Mobley/Cato for Tmac/Howard/DeClerq/Lue
and here is the change for the Rockets....

Change in team outlook: +20.2 ppg, +3.2 rpg, and +1.9 apg.

Those are pretty strong numbers. And yes I know we played JVG ball, they played changing coaches ball, but +20 points is huge. The rebounds and assists numbers are also big improvements.

[DonnyMost]

Originally posted by Doc Rocket
and I HATE to lose Boki.

There is a tear in my beer tonight.

a moment of silence for Boki "5 minutes of fury" Nachbar. aka the Mal0wn3r.

[Deuce]

Originally posted by Doc Rocket
When I was told of the trade today earlier, I told Clutch that Boki was NOT mentioned in the deal. No, from what I've read, he may be but my guy told me that it was EXACTLY as Feigen reported.

Agina, I HATE to lose Cat and I HATE to lose Boki. It is alot there's no doubt. But, like Jeff said, take the BEST PLAYER. We now have 2 of the best players in the league in our starting 5. I know I was spinning the "greatness of DeClerq.' It was a little but tongue in cheek. However, filling our bench is NOT going to be a problem. Why dos everyone think that the trading stops with this deal? This deal is just starting the movement. Our bench will be adequate enough and our 4 will be addressed.

Stop worrying about all this - The Rockets ar on the verge of adding TMAC!

(VERY whinely) "But what about our depth? What about out bench?" Waahhhhh! It'll be addressed but CD and JVG obviously feel that acquiring TMAC is a tad more important than getting getting another bench player.

hmm..


With that said....David Aldridge on SportsCenter just reported that Derek Fisher is opting out of his LA contract and he WOULD have interest in the Rockets! So perhaps a potential PG option there with part of the MLE.

[Man]

Originally posted by Deuce
With that said....David Aldridge on SportsCenter just reported that Derek Fisher is opting out of his LA contract and he WOULD have interest in the Rockets! So perhaps a potential PG option there with part of the MLE.
Didn't Derek play with Tyronn LUe?

I would like NVE and Brent Barry more...I wish.

[RocksMillenium]

Originally posted by Bassfly
DeClerq is the worst NBA player in the league. No statistical evidence can convince otherwise... his defining moment in his career was allowing Yao Ming to score 41 points on him. J. Howard, Lue, DeClerq probably arent on our team 3 years from now, McGrady is hte only person to mention in this trade, the others are just scrubs to fill in holes. J. Howard is a good scoring option, but just a Mo Taylor clone. Now we have the softest frontcourt in the NBA; let's hope we can fill in our roster with legitimate starters. Orlando is making away with 3 legitimate starters, and (if Boki is involved) another player who potentially become a starters; whereas the Rockets are getting players who start but should be backups. You still do this trade for McGrady though, but lets not sugarcoat it and kid ourselves. DeClerq/Lue/Howard are jokes.

Howard's career average is about 18 ppg and about 7 rpg. Howard's worst season was 14.6 ppg and 7.6 rpg. And when he played for a winning team, Dallas, he put up about 18 and 7 per game How is that joke? I'd LOVE to have a "joke" of a basketball player that put up those numbers? People are quick to throw around the phrase "joke" and compare players to someone else but, my god, Howard consistently puts up strong numbers, soft or not. Looking at Howard's numbers doesn't tell me he should be a backup.

[Rashmon]

This is all great news for Rocket fans.

I think many of us are also underestimating Juwan Howard. No, he is not a superstar, and his receipt of that monster contract several years ago painted him as an underachiever, but he has been a solid player.

He has career stats of nearly 17 points, 8 boards and 3 assists per game (these may be off as I am going from memory).

He plays smart, heady, fundamental ball, sees the court and passes well and does not make mistakes. I think he will be a major contributor and we will be pleasantly surprised by his contributions.

[pariah]

Thanks, Doc. Now it's real!

[Rudyball]

One thing the Negativators forget is that the magic would never have intentionally traded TMac. this is a desperation trade to save the franchise from years of losing from just letting him walk out at the end of his contract.

on the other hand, the Rox were considering trading Francis at the first hint of capturing McGrady.

that should tell us alot.

As Matt mentioned on 610 tonight: Drexler, Barkley, Pippen :o , Francis, Yao and now TMac.

cheers to Les. the guy knows how to make a deal.

[Bassfly]

Originally posted by RocksMillenium
Howard's career average is about 18 ppg and about 7 rpg. Howard's worst season was 14.6 ppg and 7.6 rpg. And when he played for a winning team, Dallas, he put up about 18 and 7 per game How is that joke? I'd LOVE to have a "joke" of a basketball player that put up those numbers? People are quick to throw around the phrase "joke" and compare players to someone else but, my god, Howard consistently puts up strong numbers, soft or not. Looking at Howard's numbers doesn't tell me he should be a backup.

So Howard has made a career of playing on mediocre to horrible teams with no potential for greatness and puts up good numbers. No, he's not a joke, it was over-compensation to the dreadful Lue/DeClerq more than Howard; I even said that he would be a good scoring option, but that's all he is. He's one dimensional. He's Maurice Taylor, atleast Maurice Taylor has a variety in which to get his points. Maurice Taylor isnt a starter on a championship team, and neither is J. Howard. Neither play defense, none of them are a force on the glass; they're a good scoring punch off the bench. Howard does not make us a better team, we have a logjam at PF (Taylor, Howard, Padgett, Weatherspoon, DeClerq) full of tweeners, or soft one-dimensional players who just arent well-rounded enough to be legitimate starters.

[ihatehyena]

On one end, Rox loses Steve's heart, Cat's defense and Cato's toughness.
On the another end, Rox sends out:
don't want to pass
don't know how to pass
don't know how to shoot
Their major defects are barriers that hinder Rox from playing team basket ball.

[moestavern19]

Originally posted by Oski2005
On another positive note, this T-Mac business seems to have shut down the D&D forum.

Not to mention the Hangout and every other forum. Hell, even I'm posting in here.

[thacabbage]

Originally posted by Bassfly
So Howard has made a career of playing on mediocre to horrible teams with no potential for greatness and puts up good numbers. No, he's not a joke, it was over-compensation to the dreadful Lue/DeClerq more than Howard;
I don't see what the problem is. Noone is claiming that he's our savior at the power forward. But he's a decent basketball player that does have his virtues.

I even said that he would be a good scoring option, but that's all he is. He's one dimensional. He's Maurice Taylor, atleast Maurice Taylor has a variety in which to get his points.
Look. I can't sit here and tell you with a straight face that Juwon Howard is a great player. I'de be lying. But you make it sound like he's Andrew DeClerq here (future Rocket backup center). Juwon Howard has his virtues. He's a good scorer and has an above average postup game. Atleast we'll know that we'll have a capable scorer at the power forward spot at all times next year - something that was a problem last year. Dallas acquired Howard a few years ago strictly for the purpose of adding him as their big inside offensive presence for a championship push - he does have his virtues. I'm not going to tell you he's the ideal fit next to Yao because he isn't, he's the last thing from it. But why is this even an issue? He's just a throw in to the deal and can help in some areas.

Maurice Taylor isnt a starter on a championship team, and neither is J. Howard. Neither play defense, none of them are a force on the glass; they're a good scoring punch off the bench. Howard does not make us a better team, we have a logjam at PF (Taylor, Howard, Padgett, Weatherspoon, DeClerq) full of tweeners, or soft one-dimensional players who just arent well-rounded enough to be legitimate starters.
Kenny Smith or Vernon Maxwell weren't starters on championship teams. CBA refugee Mario Elie? 220 pound Robert Horry at power forward? 40 year old Horace Grant at power forward for the Lakers? Robert Horry too, especially with the likes of Rasheed Wallace, Tim Duncan, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Brian Grant all in the west. Who cares? I realize Juwon Howard isn't the ideal fit, but what's the problem? Our top competition next year will be LA, SA, Minnesota, Sacramento, and Dallas. The secondary big men on those teams are a hobbling Karl Malone, Rasho freaking Nesterovic, Micheal Olowokandi, a hobbling Webber, and Shawn Bradley. I'de say we're in pretty good shape with Taylor and Howard. Ideal fits? Hell no. But they'll do for now. The fact of the matter remains that unless Yao fulfills his potential, this is all a moot point. If he doesn't, we're not going anywhere no matter who our power forward is. If he does, we don't need a bona fide power forward. The point is that we just finished pairing two 25 year potential MVP candidates together. The throwins to the deal shouldn't matter.

[Deckard]

Originally posted by SmeggySmeg
not sure why but these lyrics just keep going thru my head
...............
Pretty soon now you’re gonna get a little older
Time may change me
But I can’t trace time
I said that time may change me
But I can’t trace time

Great tune by David Bowie. Thanks, Smeg. Think I'll slip that in the 'ol computer.

Changes indeed.

[Bassfly]

Originally posted by thacabbage
I don't see what the problem is. Noone is claiming that he's our savior at the power forward. But he's a decent basketball player that does have his virtues.

That isn't even the arguement being discussed here. No one tried to make the arguement that he was the ideal fit at PF. But, there was no point in trying to overembellish his worth by using per 48 minute stats to convince us of that. He's a decent basketball player that has his virtues, but so are alot of players. My general point was that it's not worth stating about any of the other players on teh side of this deal, as obviously McGrady is the prize, the other players probably wont be on this team 3 years from now.

Look. I can't sit here and tell you with a straight face that Juwon Howard is a great player. I'de be lying. But you make it sound like he's Andrew DeClerq here (future Rocket backup center). Juwon Howard has his virtues. He's a good scorer and has an above average postup game. Atleast we'll know that we'll have a capable scorer at the power forward spot at all times next year - something that was a problem last year. Dallas acquired Howard a few years ago strictly for the purpose of adding him as their big inside offensive presence for a championship push - he does have his virtues. I'm not going to tell you he's the ideal fit next to Yao because he isn't, he's the last thing from it. But why is this even an issue? He's just a throw in to the deal and can help in some areas.

Exactly, hes a throw-in. He doesnt factor to be in our long-term situation, and in fact the first opportunity to get rid of him I'm sure we will. He has a capable offensive game, but thats all, he's not a starter on a championship team. So I don't see what your point is here.

Kenny Smith or Vernon Maxwell weren't starters on championship teams. CBA refugee Mario Elie? 220 pound Robert Horry at power forward? 40 year old Horace Grant at power forward for the Lakers? Robert Horry too, especially with the likes of Rasheed Wallace, Tim Duncan, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Brian Grant all in the west. Who cares? I realize Juwon Howard isn't the ideal fit, but what's the problem? Our top competition next year will be LA, SA, Minnesota, Sacramento, and Dallas. The secondary big men on those teams are a hobbling Karl Malone, Rasho freaking Nesterovic, Micheal Olowokandi, a hobbling Webber, and Shawn Bradley. I'de say we're in pretty good shape with Taylor and Howard. Ideal fits? Hell no. But they'll do for now. The fact of the matter remains that unless Yao fulfills his potential, this is all a moot point. If he doesn't, we're not going anywhere no matter who our power forward is. If he does, we don't need a bona fide power forward. The point is that we just finished pairing two 25 year potential MVP candidates together. The throwins to the deal shouldn't matter.

You're saying that (hopefully) Yao Ming's greatness will cover up the faults of our PF, but at the same time we're alwayts screaming for us to get a legitimate PF to complement him.

Kenny Smith .. Vernon Maxwell .. Robert Horry ... Mario Elie .. sure they're not protypical players at their respected positions, but they knew what they had to do, they played D and rebounded. They werent one-dimensional like Howard, they helped their teams in other ways besides scoring. Any one of those players could bust out for 20 pts, but if they werent scoring they were doing other things to help the team win. They werent excellent at any one thing, they were good at alot of different things -- their game was multi-faceted. There's a reason why Bruce Bowen plays 32 minutes on the best team in the league.

You can't make the arguement that role players can just be found off the street, because at the same time other teams are always screaming that they can't find the right pieces to fit. I agree to an extent, that TRULY great players can cover up the faults of role players (as in the case of Kobe/Shaq-Horace Grant), but at the same time you cant discredit the worth of role players.



I don't see what your point is in this post. First you claim that Howard is a good player and should be acknowledged as such, but then further on you discredit his worth on this team saying that any player can take his place.

[NIKEstrad]

Originally posted by Bassfly

You're saying that (hopefully) Yao Ming's greatness will cover up the faults of our PF, but at the same time we're alwayts screaming for us to get a legitimate PF to complement him.
...
You can't make the arguement that role players can just be found off the street, because at the same time other teams are always screaming that they can't find the right pieces to fit. I agree to an extent, that TRULY great players can cover up the faults of role players (as in the case of Kobe/Shaq-Horace Grant), but at the same time you cant discredit the worth of role players.


Yao and McGrady's greatness. Something about a 25 year old, 4 time all-NBA 1st/2nd team player.

No one's making the argument that role players can be found off the streets, but there is the argument that role players know their role- and look for the star players. Malone/Payton didn't sign in LA because it was LA- they signed because of Kobe and Shaq.

You team up McGrady with Yao, and already we hear Fisher might be interested. TMac certainly makes the Houston starting PG job a lot more enticing for Fisher, Van Exel, Barry, or Payton. If Howard blows things, then next summer, we can look for a new PF. Fact is, Howard has posted all of TWO seasons with less than 17 ppg, and ONE season under 7 rebs. He's not going to dominate Western Conference 4s; but Yao and TMac will dominate the 2s and 5s.

Francis was good; TMac is something else.

[Behad]

Originally posted by RocketsPimp
As awesome as it could be having Yao and T-Mac together, I'm in total denial about losing Mobes.

Can't we trade them Behad and a 7 year contract of BBQ instead?

What the hell??


Hey, I love Florida. And I'll be in Orlando beginning August 1st. Coincidence????

[xiki]

Originally posted by Behad
What the hell??


Hey, I love Florida. And I'll be in Orlando beginning August 1st. Coincidence????

Coincidence...or magic???

[Behad]

Originally posted by xiki
Coincidence...or magic???

Magic? or Magic Kingdom?

[rhester]

Yao makes Howard a better player right off the bat and
17, 7 is not too shabby

[crash5179]

Originally posted by rhester
Yao makes Howard a better player right off the bat and
17, 7 is not too shabby

Has Juwan ever played with a dominate big man? I don't think so. You might be on to something. I don't think Howard would be a bad third choice at all.

[xiki]

Originally posted by Behad
Magic? or Magic Kingdom?

As in -- Walt or Johnson?

[Pole]

Damon Stoudamire

[RocketFan4ever]

Originally posted by BigSexy
You all better jump on the bandwagon now while you can, because when the rockets start to dominate, then it will be too late to say "i knew they would dominate" blah blah blah.

It such a good time to be a Rockets fan:cool: :)

I am still a little aprehensive about the whole deal. I mean Mcgrady has been dominant on his Eastern Conference team of nobodies. I doubt he is going to be able to average his big numbers with the ball being fed into YM every play. He could very well encounter the same snags SF did when his game was forced to CHANGE. Tmac is not going to be able to transplant from Orlando to the Rox his game will have to adjust as well. I'm not saying it is a move we should pass on, but there is definitely potential for a very dark side to it. Especially with what we are giving up. Its not that easy for me to follow a team and worship a team and then be happy about that team being shipped off and replaced. Eventually I will love the new Rox team, but I still have to mourn for the team we are losing.......

[Oski2005]

Uh, with T-Mac here, it changes from "inside out" to "outside in."

[Dubious]

Doc,

As a doctor, what do you hear about T-Mac's back problems?
I wasn't as interested in the diagnosis back when he was a Magic.

Just a strain or a chronic condition? It's not anything that might prove degenerative is it?

[today]

Here's another question Doc:

I may have mis-read it, but I think you mentioned in one of your earlier posts that for some reason unknown to you, the Rockets may have wanted Mobley to be included in the deal. Have you heard anything else regarding that?

[okierock]

Juwan Howard is a great "Throw In" any throw in that averages over 15 and 5 is a little better than a throw in.

That said he is not what we need a PF. We need somebody who averages 5 and 15, is mean and can play defense. Otis Thorpe at 27 years of age would be really nice. Ben Wallace would be perfect.

Actually a healthy Marcus Camby wouldn't be too bad. Of course he is never healthy long.

[MoonBus]

Originally posted by Oski2005
Uh, with T-Mac here, it changes from "inside out" to "outside in."

No, JVG has mentioned in his interview with Radio610 that he wants an "inside out" game. He also added that an "inside out" game does not necessary means that the offense has to start with the low post player, it could be a guard with a penetration. I doubt adding TMac will change that philosophy.

[Easy]

For the record, I don't like Juwan Howard's game. BUT, he is better than Mo Taylor. He has a better post game. He is a much better rebounder. Mo has better range. Both aren't much of a defender. In short, Howard is the rich man's Mo Taylor with better rebounding. I am pretty sure the Rockets are looking to trade one of them (probably Mo) for a backup center.

[Kim]

Originally posted by Easy
In short, Howard is the rich man's Mo Taylor with better rebounding.

Damn, then he must be a very rich man.

[Hmm]

Originally posted by MoonBus
No, JVG has mentioned in his interview with Radio610 that he wants an "inside out" game. He also added that an "inside out" game does not necessary means that the offense has to start with the low post player, it could be a guard with a penetration. I doubt adding TMac will change that philosophy.

Well, there you go. It'll remain an "inside out" game, only instead of Yao constantly being the first scoring option, it'll be T-mac the "gaurd with a penetration". Which would be the best way to go about it. I'm sure JVG's realized that going to Yao as a first scoring option everytime through the regular season, really wore him out when the playoffs arrived.

[dharocks]

Originally posted by Hmm
Well, there you go. It'll remain an "inside out" game, only instead of Yao constantly being the first scoring option, it'll be T-mac the "gaurd with a penetration". Which would be the best way to go about it. I'm sure JVG's realized that going to Yao as a first scoring option everytime through the regular season, really wore him out when the playoffs arrived.

Don't forget, T-Mac has Pippen-esque post-up ability. Jeff loved to post Spree up in NY and did it frequently with Mobley as well.

[Rocket River]

Originally posted by BobFinn*
Great deal from Houston's perspective any way you look at it:cool:

I think it will be a good deal with Orlando as well.

Steve Francis Fan


Rocket River

[benchmoochie]

Put it this way with T-Mac, we'll never have a problem finishing a fast break again!