ClutchFans - Would trading Biggio be suicide fro McLane?

franchise?..NOT

03-24-2004, 08:36 AM

Even though it is extremely unlikely to happen, if we could get a Griffey or Beltran type of player, what would you think of the Astros for trading Biggio, (or benching him). I for one have never been all warm and fuzzy about him like Ryan. If he can be replaced with a more productive player WHO ALSO IMPROVES THE RANGE IN CF, then I am all for it. I realize that he had 100 runs last year and so that is part of the deal. His replacement must be an upgrade AND have some highly productive years left in the tank. We could load up the Reds or Royals with starting pitching depth and not suffer in the short or long term because of it. In return we get a healthy Griffey or Beltran to man CF for the next 5-7 years. To me this is a no brainer. I want to know what is the consensus.

plee

03-24-2004, 09:26 AM

When was the last time Griffey was healthy :D I would not give much for him till he could make it through a season... I would not let our pitching go again, I would like to see what Lane or other farm guys can do before unloading our pitching prospects.

Dubious

03-24-2004, 09:41 AM

No, this year's team is all about the chemistry and Bige is part of of that.

rrj_gamz

03-24-2004, 09:41 AM

I like Biggio, but his better days are behind him...It would be a PR nightmare, but he shouldn't be leading off and startin in CF...

bigboymumu

03-24-2004, 10:04 AM

Biggio should not be a starting center fielder. If we can improve the team, McLane should do it!

Stickfigure

03-24-2004, 10:11 AM

I don't think there's any way on earth McLane would trade Biggio, and anyway, it's not like one would get much value for him at this stage. Half of his value to the Astros now is in his history with the team, since he's not exactly lighting up the world in CF or at the plate.

I'd say keep him and give him a kind of super-utility role at 2B and OF. Better yet, put him back at catcher and send Bad Awfulmus to the bench.

Buck Turgidson

03-24-2004, 10:19 AM

Just a couple of things:

A) They can't trade Biggio
B) See A)

The 'Stros have said they're done tinkering with the roster until possible trading deadline time deals. There will be major roster changes after this season. Can we hold off on the wild-ass speculation for a bit?

p.s. Biggio had the 4th highest OBP of any leadoff hitter in baseball last season.

Oski2005

03-24-2004, 10:22 AM

Don't bring "statistics" around here Buck. This about living in a fantasy world where we can trade a 38 year old past his prime out of position player for all star CF like Beltran or Andruw Jones.

Behad

03-24-2004, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by Oski2005
Don't bring "statistics" around here Buck. This about living in a fantasy world where we can trade a 38 year old past his prime out of position player for all star CF like Beltran or Andruw Jones.

LOL, couldn't have said it better myself.:D

meh

03-24-2004, 10:40 AM

Even if the Astros put Biggio on the waiver wire, I'd venture to guess that ZERO teams would put a claim on him. Biggio at $3 mil a year is too overpaid from a pure baseball standpoint. The only way the Astros can trade Biggio is if we take on a salary albatross or pay most of Biggio's salary.

franchise?..NOT

03-24-2004, 11:07 AM

Consensus seems to be keep Bidge, so far. OK. It was suggested that Bidge be traded OR benched. We would not get anything for him for sure. I like the idea of a super sub though. With Kent's bad wrist, Bidge could yet be back at 2B as a major contributor while we could trade Robertson and/or Duckworth and/or Lane for Griffey or Beltran. I am only thinking of doing now what we will need to do next year anyway. While bringing up the trade possibility I was mainly interested in seeing if folks thought fondly enough of Biggio that he should be allowed to keep his job and allowed to retire or if we could upgrade now. He has stated that he would like to play another year and would like it to be here but maybe it would end up being somewhere else. So are we then stuck with this guy until HE decides he is no longer productive or do we force him to the bench now. The super sub role may be the answer and Bidge may actually like that role for a few years. So why not do it sooner rather than later. I do not see this as wild speculation but as addressing a concern that needs to be dealt with sooner rather than later. The CF upgrade and Biggio's fate are like but are really two separate issues as a new CF, whether Lane or a trade or a FA has got to happen next year.

Rileydog

03-24-2004, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by meh
Even if the Astros put Biggio on the waiver wire, I'd venture to guess that ZERO teams would put a claim on him. Biggio at $3 mil a year is too overpaid from a pure baseball standpoint. The only way the Astros can trade Biggio is if we take on a salary albatross or pay most of Biggio's salary.

Actually, I think you would find takers. On sportsradio 610 yesterday, they were talking stats and Biggio scored over 100 runs last year and has an OBPover 350, which ranked him 3rd among lead off hitters (behind juan pierre and someone else, maybe furcal, or the guy in Florida). It is important to measure Biggio's performance against the current competition, not what leadoff hitters used to be.

Granted, his defense is weak. However, he is not completely useless.

bobrek

03-24-2004, 11:34 AM

franchise?...

Why do you want to trade for Griffey? He has only played in 234 games the past 3 seasons. He makes 10-12 million dollars a year. I suspect any package for a stud centerfielder would have to include Oswalt, Miller or Redding. Do you really think the Royals would take unproven guys like Duckworth or Robertson and Lane for Beltran? While the Astros have a surplus of pitchers with potential they have no proven guys in the minors (Hernandez has to prove his health this season) that would be a centerpiece in a trade for a player opf Beltran's caliber.

meh

03-24-2004, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by Rileydog
Actually, I think you would find takers. On sportsradio 610 yesterday, they were talking stats and Biggio scored over 100 runs last year and has an OBPover 350, which ranked him 3rd among lead off hitters (behind juan pierre and someone else, maybe furcal, or the guy in Florida). It is important to measure Biggio's performance against the current competition, not what leadoff hitters used to be.

Granted, his defense is weak. However, he is not completely useless.

I'm not saying that Biggio's useless. Far from it. I think he makes a superb bench player who can play both 2nd base and the OF. But I still believe that he's overpaid at $3 mil. If you look at the players signed this offseason for under $3 mil, many are superior players, and younger, than Biggio.

rockets-#1

03-24-2004, 07:35 PM

I don't want him traded, but I think he'd be better for the team coming off the bench. If he was traded, I wouldn't want it to be for any of the deals on the poll.

stubbyc

03-24-2004, 08:06 PM

Biggio is a 10-5 guy (10 years MLB experience, 5 with current team) therefore cannot be traded.

We have a very capable backup for Biggio in Jason Lane, but Hunsicker and Williams don't want to hurt anyone's pride so they keep Biggio in there.

codell

03-24-2004, 08:40 PM

Originally posted by stubbyc
We have a very capable backup for Biggio in Jason Lane, but Hunsicker and Williams don't want to hurt anyone's pride so they keep Biggio in there.

So you really think that Jason Lane is a better center fielder and leadoff hitter than Bidge??? Even though Lane is neither a center fielder, nor a leadoff hitter???

:confused:

edwardc

03-24-2004, 09:49 PM

Originally posted by bigboymumu
Biggio should not be a starting center fielder. If we can improve the team, McLane should do it!

true to be able to get a player like griffey jr and put biggio on the bench would be good.

bobrek

03-24-2004, 09:54 PM

Originally posted by edwardc
true to be able to get a player like griffey jr and put biggio on the bench would be good.

Griffey has had major injuries in each of the last 3 years. Do you really think that the Astros should try to acquire him and his 10+ million dollar contract?

meh

03-25-2004, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by codell
So you really think that Jason Lane is a better center fielder and leadoff hitter than Bidge??? Even though Lane is neither a center fielder, nor a leadoff hitter???

:confused:

Then again, is Biggio a *true* center fielder?

As for being a true leadoff hitter, I'm of the opinion that Ensberg is probably our best one right now. Biggio used to be an awesome leadoff hitter, back when he was getting on base at around a 40% clip, and had a lot of speed. But those days are gone, and he's only hitting leadoff by reputation.

I would say this. If I were betting, I'd put money on Lane having a better season than Biggio. If only because Lane's young and likely to improve, while Biggio is old and likely to decline, perhaps even sharply.

MadMax

03-25-2004, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by meh
Then again, is Biggio a *true* center fielder?

As for being a true leadoff hitter, I'm of the opinion that Ensberg is probably our best one right now. Biggio used to be an awesome leadoff hitter, back when he was getting on base at around a 40% clip, and had a lot of speed. But those days are gone, and he's only hitting leadoff by reputation.

I would say this. If I were betting, I'd put money on Lane having a better season than Biggio. If only because Lane's young and likely to improve, while Biggio is old and likely to decline, perhaps even sharply.

Buck said this, above...it bears repeating:

p.s. Biggio had the 4th highest OBP of any leadoff hitter in baseball last season.

I agree...he's not Lou Brock....or the 1998 Craig Biggio...but there aren't a ton of viable alternatives that are much better in MLB today.

Summer Song Giver

03-25-2004, 04:23 PM

meh

03-25-2004, 07:10 PM

Originally posted by MadMax
Buck said this, above...it bears repeating:

p.s. Biggio had the 4th highest OBP of any leadoff hitter in baseball last season.

I agree...he's not Lou Brock....or the 1998 Craig Biggio...but there aren't a ton of viable alternatives that are much better in MLB today.

I'm not making this out to be Biggio vs. other leadoff hitters last year. But rather, Biggio vs. Lane. I think Lane has an edge in terms of being a better OVERALL HITTER. Not a big one, mind you, but still an edge.

As for the leadoff position, I think Ensberg will work well. The running game has become obselete nowadays, not to mention the fact that lineup order isn't really THAT important.

MadMax

03-26-2004, 07:58 AM

Originally posted by meh
I'm not making this out to be Biggio vs. other leadoff hitters last year. But rather, Biggio vs. Lane. I think Lane has an edge in terms of being a better OVERALL HITTER. Not a big one, mind you, but still an edge.

As for the leadoff position, I think Ensberg will work well. The running game has become obselete nowadays, not to mention the fact that lineup order isn't really THAT important.

Ensberg as a leadoff hitter?? what whis is on base percentage last year??

again...if Biggio is 4th among all leadoff hitters in OBP, then he is not the problem.

Austin70

03-26-2004, 08:28 AM

By the way, why would McLane get a suicide fro?

Oski2005

03-26-2004, 11:45 AM

If Lane in his prime has only a slight edge over a 38 year old who isn't on steroids, I wonder what all the hoopla over this guy was about.

codell

03-26-2004, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by meh
Then again, is Biggio a *true* center fielder?

As for being a true leadoff hitter, I'm of the opinion that Ensberg is probably our best one right now. Biggio used to be an awesome leadoff hitter, back when he was getting on base at around a 40% clip, and had a lot of speed. But those days are gone, and he's only hitting leadoff by reputation.

I would say this. If I were betting, I'd put money on Lane having a better season than Biggio. If only because Lane's young and likely to improve, while Biggio is old and likely to decline, perhaps even sharply.

You didn't answer my question.

How is Lane a better leadoff hitter and CF than Biggio, when Lane is neither a leadoff hitter (he is a power hitter), nor a CF (I am quite confident that Biggio is faster than Lane is, even at 38)????