Black Panther Party

[Lil Pun]

As I've said before I attend the University of Memphis and recently the University sponsored a speech by a former BlackPanther member named Elbert "Bigman" Howard last week. A student from the U of M took great offense that the University would allow a person from such a violent and racist group come and speak to the students and staff. You can read the entire article here. (http://www.dailyhelmsman.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/02/18/40342ff6d1b53)

After reading his retort in the paper, I remember that I had just watched the movie "Panther" a few nights ago for the 2,000th time and the story was quite different from his view. Yes the Panthers were militant but that is because of the violent tactics used against black people in those days. I never saw any racism in the movie except the fact that they wouldn't let whites join the Party. Yes a certain group of Panthers revolted against the police and did do violent acts but not all of them did this. It seemed they did a lot of positive things in the black community, such as food programs, raised black morale, stopped some violent police tactics, and helped those in need.

Now here are my questions. I am basing my opinion about the Black Panther Party on the wrong material? I mean is the movie dramatized or is it based on actual events? I've looked around the web for information and basically found the same things the movie said about the Party. Did the Black Panther Party do more bad than good in their day? Were they more violent against white people than shown in the movie? If some of the movie is fake what and who really existed and what and who did not? The reason I'm asking is because I thought the Black Panther Party was a positive part of black history and I still consider them to be but am I wrong?

[serious black]

Haven't seen the movie, but trust your instincts. The Black Panthers were a very necessary and positive force.

[MacBeth]

Originally posted by Lil Pun
I never saw any racism in the movie except the fact that they wouldn't let whites join the Party.


In general, my views on the Panthers are mixed. I will make two points;

If they were from another country, we wouldn't spilt hairs.

The statement above is...interesting. That is the definition of racism. Perhaps what you meant was that they weren't militant about their racism, but saying there wasn't any racism other than basing who could and who couldn't join on race is like saying that a Boys Only Club isn't sexist other than that one aspect.

My feelings about the Panthers is somewhat akin to my feelings about other groups we call terrorists; I don;t only find the merit in the arguments of violent groups who share my nationality. On the other hand, I disagree with violence for people of every nation. Not all IRA members have been violent; we don;t plit hairs. Not all PLO members are violent; we don;t split hairs.

I ahve sympathy for the plights of all of these...I do not rule out the possibility that were I born into their experience, I would have gone their route.

But, from the ( admitedly priveledged) perspective of someone who hasn't had to make those choices, I am free to say that violence is not the answer. I just don't know what is...

[Lil Pun]

I never saw any racism in the movie except the fact that they wouldn't let whites join the Party.


What I meant from this is the Party didn't generally hate white people. In the article I gave a link to the writer compares the BPP and the KKK. The BPP held rallies with whites and were generally friendly to whites. I very seriously doubt you would ever see the KKK hold a rally with black let alone be nice to them.

[JeffB]

Originally posted by MacBeth
In general, my views on the Panthers are mixed. I will make two points;

If they were from another country, we wouldn't spilt hairs.

The statement above is...interesting. That is the definition of racism. Perhaps what you meant was that they weren't militant about their racism, but saying there wasn't any racism other than basing who could and who couldn't join on race is like saying that a Boys Only Club isn't sexist other than that one aspect.

My feelings about the Panthers is somewhat akin to my feelings about other groups we call terrorists; I don;t only find the merit in the arguments of violent groups who share my nationality. On the other hand, I disagree with violence for people of every nation. Not all IRA members have been violent; we don;t plit hairs. Not all PLO members are violent; we don;t split hairs.

I ahve sympathy for the plights of all of these...I do not rule out the possibility that were I born into their experience, I would have gone their route.

But, from the ( admitedly priveledged) perspective of someone who hasn't had to make those choices, I am free to say that violence is not the answer. I just don't know what is...
I agree with your general theme. I am also mixed about the group. I'd like to add that to some Panthers (and most Black Americans), the police were the terrorists (which, for blacks, the police essentially had always been). The BPP saw itself as a defensive, anti-police brutality group. Not a group promoting violence. It sought black political activism in conjuction with white radical groups. The group split hairs on racism, itself. They wanted interracial cooperation but wanted such cooperation in the context of black unity against white oppression. The group earned its violent recognition when it came into conlict with the FBI (COINTELPRO). From what I understand the BPP tried to circle the wagons and insitute a black nationalist program of self-help and self-defense. But really signed its own death certificate when it tried to directly, physically challenge threats from the police and the FBI.

[Woofer]

JeffB,
Was the Black Panther response before or after Fred Hampton and Mark Clark's murders?

[FranchiseBlade]

The thing about the Panthers is they did a great service. They showed the hypocricy in how the laws were enforced. It wasn't threatening for white guys to have guns in their trucks, or own them or whatever. But somehow when blacks owned them it was a threat. The panthers legally got permits and armed themselves and talked about it. That made the govt. treat them in a hostile way, even murdering some of their members.

But over time we see that they showed hypocrisy for what it was, and raised a lot of people's conciousness about that and other issues they were talking about. It was very empowering what they were doing. They went out and grabbed hold of their rights, and wouldn't back down.

The criminal activity by them casts a shadow over the organization, and it's too bad. But some great people like Angela Davis etc. came out of that whole movement.

[Lil Pun]

Originally posted by FranchiseBlade


The criminal activity by them casts a shadow over the organization, and it's too bad. But some great people like Angela Davis etc. came out of that whole movement.

What criminal activities did they do?

[FranchiseBlade]

Originally posted by Lil Pun
What criminal activities did they do? Certain members Killed policemen.

[gifford1967]

If I remember correctly, the FBI infiltrated the Black Panthers, the FBI agent would organize weapon sales, which the FBI would then use as an excuse to raid the homes of Black Panthers. In the raids, Black Panthers were killed.

[Lil Pun]

Originally posted by gifford1967
If I remember correctly, the FBI infiltrated the Black Panthers, the FBI agent would organize weapon sales, which the FBI would then use as an excuse to raid the homes of Black Panthers. In the raids, Black Panthers were killed.

Isn't that how Hampton and Clark were killed?

[pgabriel]

"I'm sorry for breaking up your Black Panther Party"

[MacBeth]

Weren't there armed bank robberies, as well? I could be wrong, but that seems to be my recollection.

[FranchiseBlade]

Originally posted by gifford1967
If I remember correctly, the FBI infiltrated the Black Panthers, the FBI agent would organize weapon sales, which the FBI would then use as an excuse to raid the homes of Black Panthers. In the raids, Black Panthers were killed.

In fact the FBI came in while two Black Panthers were sleeping, and murdered them in their sleep. They were really after the Panthers.

[JeffB]

Originally posted by MacBeth
Weren't there armed bank robberies, as well? I could be wrong, but that seems to be my recollection.
I know that after Hampton and Clark are killed and because of the FBI infiltrating the group, the Panthers splinter A number of members join the Black Liberation Army, which did rob banks, etc. So after 1969, the group has split into factions (with help from the FBI) that don't follow the international program closely.

About dead police: If the police (and FBI) are conducting unconstitutional murderous raids on the group you'd expect some police to die in the process. Panthers were not about going down without a fight.

Woofer, I am not sure when stuff really escalated but with Newton already locked up the killing of Bobby Hutton got things riled up even more than usual in Oakland. Hampton and Clark may have been murdered in the midst of many battles the FBI instigated (like between the Panthers and Ron Karenga -- the guy who invented Kwanzaa).

For whoevery wants to know, here is a link to the party's platform in 1966 compared to its platform in 1972:
http://www.stanford.edu/group/blackpanthers/history.shtml

By 1972 the BPP was an international movement.

[Lil Pun]

Has anybody else seen the movie "Panther"? If so, there were two groups of Black Panthers at the beginning the one with Huey P. Newton and the other that seemed like a mix between the Nation of Islam and the Black Panther Party. What was that second group and whatever happened to them?

[JeffB]

Originally posted by Lil Pun
Has anybody else seen the movie "Panther"? If so, there were two groups of Black Panthers at the beginning the one with Huey P. Newton and the other that seemed like a mix between the Nation of Islam and the Black Panther Party. What was that second group and whatever happened to them?
I think the second portrayed group was US. US has been rumored to stand for "United Slaves" though Karenga has said it stands for Us as in "Us vs. Them." It was led by Ron "Maulana" Karenga (http://www.thehistorymakers.com/biography/biography.asp?bioindex=378&category=educationMakers). His born name is Ronald McKinley Everett. Anyway, Karenga goes on to invent Kwanzaa (rumor has it he made it up while drinking with some buddies), get a PhD and becomes a black cultural nationalist icon and psuedo-intellectual professor. Just so you know what he is like: he named himself Maulana, which means prophet. Cultural nationalists (like Karenga) have been at very bitter odds with Marxists (like the Panthers).

Also, a lot of remaining Panthers have chips on their shoulder about Karenga selling out the group to the FBI. Many people beleive he was an informant which is why US and Ron aren't really targeted by the FBI like the BPP. I was at a conference in Cincinatti (1996) where Karenga was speaking. While Karenga was talking this old Black Panther gets up and calls him out. Everyone between the two of them practically cleared their tables anticipating gunfire or something. It seemed like everyone was holding their breath. Mind you this was an intellectual, suit and tie event. Still all the academics and activists in the room knew what to expect with an original Panther and Karenga in the same room. Karenga stuttered through a bitter exchange then the old cat left just when security popped in. It was an intense moment, to say the least.

[basso]

Originally posted by Lil Pun
As I've said before I attend the University of Memphis and recently the University sponsored a speech by a former BlackPanther member named Elbert "Bigman" Howard last week. A student from the U of M took great offense that the University would allow a person from such a violent and racist group come and speak to the students and staff. You can read the entire article here. (http://www.dailyhelmsman.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/02/18/40342ff6d1b53)


isn't it ironic that the entire democratic party allowed a violent and racist candidate to participate in each of the primary debates?

btw, Lil Pun i was a 1981 UM grad, although it was memphis state back then, aka memphis mis-stake. my freshman year was spent at rhodes, aka southwestern at memphis, back in the day...

[Lil Pun]

Originally posted by basso
isn't it ironic that the entire democratic party allowed a violent and racist candidate to participate in each of the primary debates?

btw, Lil Pun i was a 1981 UM grad, although it was memphis state back then, aka memphis mis-stake. my freshman year was spent at rhodes, aka southwestern at memphis, back in the day...

Why do you call it mis-stake? I had a friend graduate from Rhodes a year ago.

[basso]

Originally posted by Lil Pun
Why do you call it mis-stake? I had a friend graduate from Rhodes a year ago.
IIRC, it was a name fans from louisville coined...

[Lil Pun]

Originally posted by basso
IIRC, it was a name fans from louisville coined...

Oh I thought you were either referencing it to the quality of education at the school or something about the Panther speaker there. How was you experience at UM?

[basso]

Originally posted by Lil Pun
Oh I thought you were either referencing it to the quality of education at the school or something about the Panther speaker there. How was you experience at UM?

too long- i should've stayed at rhodes. UM had a better music program, and my voice teacher taught there, so i transferred. i'd have done better to stay at rhodes and just studied voice privately i think.