Drayton's Comments...

[Nick]

So, you think Drayton will decide to make a serious commitment to improve this team in the off-season, given its shortcomings?

Guess again:
(from the chronicle)
"I'm excited about where we finished," said team owner Drayton McLane. "This was a team that was in question when we began the season. Both St. Louis and Chicago spent a lot of money in this offseason, and we'll finish ahead of St. Louis and just behind the Cubs.

"So I'm proud of what we accomplished this year. It's easy to get discouraged and say we should have won this game, but I'm very proud of what the club accomplished this year."



HELLO!!! So, he's happy we spent less money than those teams, and still competed... BUT YOU CAN'T SAY THAT IF YOUR TEAM DIDN"T WIN! Hell, he could have spent NOTHING, and this team would have the same end result... save a lot of broken hearts, and wasted opportunities.

[JBIIRockets]

Drayton's problem is that he only cares about winning divisions. If he cared about getting to the World Series he would force the Astros brass to make some big time changes to the current ballclub.

[Nick]

At least Octavio isn't afraid to speak the truth:

"How can you lose to Milwaukee in the position you were in?"

"We could have played better than that," Dotel said. "I don't want to say that (the Brewers) are the worst team in baseball. I know they have great players. Remember where we are and where they are. But we can't get two out of three against Milwaukee when we need it? I can't take that. I'm not happy with what we did. I don't think our team can be happy.

"The way we've played lately and the way we played against San Francisco and St. Louis, it looks like we don't care. The way we played against those guys, I don't think that was the right way we have to play. If we're going to lose, I understand that. But if we're going to lose, we have to play our best. I don't think we played 100 percent against those guys. That's why I'm so mad. We could have done better."

[RiceRocket1]

Dotel kicks ass and Drayton can kiss mine with those comments.

[Lil Francis]

Drayton is proud of what they accomplished? What the hell did they do?? Because they finished above .500??? The best thing for him to do is to sale the Stros to a owner who wants to win and is not afraid to open up the wallet. Players I don't want to see in a Stros jersey next year: Orlando Merced, Biggio,Gabe White,Brad Ausmus, and Dave Miceli (or whatever):mad:

[Refman]

If he cared about getting to the World Series he would force the Astros brass to make some big time changes to the current ballclub.
Two things. One...easier said than done. Drayton authorized Astros "brass" to obtain a front line starter via trade. There weren't any available without totally depleting the team of up and coming position players. Two...the Atlanta Braves have been called a dominant team for so long. Guess what? They have 1 World Series win. 11 of those years they could only raise a division flag.

The best thing for him to do is to sale the Stros to a owner who wants to win and is not afraid to open up the wallet.
NO owner is going to "open up the wallet" and LOSE MONEY. Nobody. Team payroll went up this year and attendance went down.

[Vengeance]

I don't think this is really Drayton's fault for "not spending enough". We got the best player we could've this offseason. If that doesn't show commitment to winning, I'm not sure what does.

I realize that Drayton is a penny-pincher, but he's no worse than a lot of other owners whose teams did better. Now, I think Drayton's comment was about as STUPID a comment as could possibly be made. "Excited about where we finished"? WTF!!!?!?!?

Personally, I dump Jimmy Williams -- I've never liked his managerial style, and I see no need to keep him around if these are his results . . .

[Nick]

I too, agree, that Drayton did as much as he could THIS PAST off-season to make this club better.

Getting Jeff Kent suprised everybody.

At the time, we were confident that Berkman would continue to improve his numbers at the plate, as he'd done the 2 years before that. (remember... 42 HR and 128 RBI in 2002).

Additionally, we were counting on Roy and Wade to carry the starters, as they were poised for huge seasons coming off a dominant 2002.

I many ways... the STARS played better in 2002 than they did in 2003. 2003 had guys like Brad Lidge and Jeriome Robertson step up... additionally, Richard Hidalgo helped off-set Berkman's decline by improving his numbers.

Overall, this team was more balanced in 2003... but injuries and a lack of a dominant player took its toll.

Bottom line... Drayton is trying to help this club win, but he should admit dissapointment when it is obvious this team underachieved.

I only hope that once he realizes that its too hard for teams to compete against bigger payrolls (in their own division, nonetheless), he'll sell the team to someone who can.

[JBIIRockets]

Originally posted by Refman
Two things. One...easier said than done. Drayton authorized Astros "brass" to obtain a front line starter via trade. There weren't any available without totally depleting the team of up and coming position players.



Maybe during the season, it is tougher. But options should open up in the offseason.


Originally posted by Refman

Two...the Atlanta Braves have been called a dominant team for so long. Guess what? They have 1 World Series win. 11 of those years they could only raise a division flag.


That's one more world Series title than the Astros have. Plus the ATL also has 5 more national league championships than the Astros do, so they do have success in the playoffs. Success in the playoffs is what Drayton should care about, but he doesn't and that is not fair to Astros fans.

And most disgustingly, since 1991, the ATL has 12 more playoff series wins than the Astros do.

Astro fans would love to have the success the Braves have had.

[JBIIRockets]

good post Nick, I did overlook the injury bug to Oswalt. And it's not drayton's fault that berkman had somewhat of a down year.

But these comments he made gives the impression that he doesn't care about improving this team a whole lot.

I applaud Drayton for getting Kent, but he needs to do another splash this offseason to improve this team again. A great thing he could do is trade Hidalgo. Another great thing he could do is get rid of Biggio, even if that means cutting him.

[Rocket Fan]

I just get annoyed hearing the man talk about how we have been champions in the past and will continue to do so etc...


so what we won a division title.. i only consider there to be one champion at the end of the season.. and thats the world series one

[Bassfly]

The bats didnt pick up in clutch situations. The Astros were 4th in runs scored, so we _do_ have an explosive offense. I think the main thing we really need to focus on this off-season is picking up a legit leadoff man, and improving the bottom part of our rotation. Oswalt, Miller, Redding are locks, but Villone and Robertson wont cut it next year. However, it will be difficult to fathom justifying Robertson not getting a starting job next year considering he led the team in wins this year. Don't forget that Rosario and Hernandez will be back and should make a push for a starting job. Moehler will be back, but hes horrible.

As well as Hidalgo played this year, I wouldnt mind seeing him go via trade [he is the most unclutch player on the club, he has a what like 220 average with the bases loaded?]. likewise for Wagner. Despite Wagner having a career year, I doubt he keeps it up for more than 3 years. Unload these contracts work on obtaining a leadoff man and a left handed starter.

[redgoose]

I'm sick of people bringing up the injuries we had. What team didn't have injuries? Look at every team in the NL playoffs and all of them had significant pitching injuries. And 3 out of the 4 teams in the NL playoffs had a major pitcher go down for the entire season.

We knew we didn't have good pitching coming into the year. But neither Kent, Hidalgo, Bagwell, Biggio, Berkman, or even Ausmus had close to a career year. We didn't even have 1 of our 10 million dollar sluggers even get 100rbi's.

[Bassfly]

Who cares if no one on our team got 100 rbi's? collectively as a _team_ (this is what is important) we were 4th in the NL in RBI's. The "Astros' offense stinks" arguement holds no water at all. yes we play in a hitter's friendly ballpark, but nonetheless, the only arguement you can make is that the Astros' offense didnt pick it up when they needed to.

[Jared Novak]

Originally posted by Nick
So, you think Drayton will decide to make a serious commitment to improve this team in the off-season, given its shortcomings?

Guess again:
(from the chronicle)
"I'm excited about where we finished," said team owner Drayton McLane. "This was a team that was in question when we began the season. Both St. Louis and Chicago spent a lot of money in this offseason, and we'll finish ahead of St. Louis and just behind the Cubs.

"So I'm proud of what we accomplished this year. It's easy to get discouraged and say we should have won this game, but I'm very proud of what the club accomplished this year."



HELLO!!! So, he's happy we spent less money than those teams, and still competed... BUT YOU CAN'T SAY THAT IF YOUR TEAM DIDN"T WIN! Hell, he could have spent NOTHING, and this team would have the same end result... save a lot of broken hearts, and wasted opportunities.

The key word in that quote by McLane is money .

Drayton isn't going to spend a dime this offseason, because he is convinced that as long as the Astros are contenders for the division, the fans will keep payng to watch the team underachieve.

Pitching is what wins championships. NL style ball is what the Astros need to play, and they look like an AL team, just waiting for someone to hit a homerun. The team needs some speed, better defense, and a couple of players with some heart.

Hopefully Drayton will sell the team after next season. He definitely wants to keep the team next season for the All-Star festivities.

Injuries aside (and it was said best in an earlier post, what team doesn't have injuries?) this team just plain underachieved and showed NO heart. If this team is kept intact without making a couple of trades or FA acquisitions, then I won't watch because I refuse to watch a team that is kept on the cusp of mediocrity.

And for Drayton apologists, you're right... he doesn't need to open his wallet to lose money. But he does need to recognize that fans don't want to keep hearing about how much money he has lost and how much he is still losing when he has new revenue streams from MMP. Drayton is obviously a businessman who wants to make a profit off of owning a MLB franchise, what he needs to realize if that owning a professional sports team is basically a billionaire's toy. If he doesn't want to spend the money, and wants to keep crying about operating at a loss, then sell the team. But don't come up with crap quotes about being proud of an underachieving team whom he doesn't feel the need to spend money to improve upon.

Thank God for the Rockets and Texans, with owners who actually want to win it all, not just a division.

[Refman]

Success in the playoffs is what Drayton should care about, but he doesn't and that is not fair to Astros fans.
What he cares about and what he says publicly may be totally different. Many people come from the school of thought that you NEVER bash your employees publicly. It's just poor form. When you look at what he said, it is hard to imagine him being able to throw many more cliches in there.

Another great thing he could do is get rid of Biggio
Why? Because he's washed up? Just like Nolan Ryan was when we didn't re-sign him and got Jim Clancy.

so what we won a division title
Be glad you don't root for Detroit. :eek:

But he does need to recognize that fans don't want to keep hearing about how much money he has lost and how much he is still losing when he has new revenue streams from MMP.
These revenues looked like they would be the difference when the plan was developed in 1996. Then the world changed again. The Braves kept rolling in money from their Superstation (and a corporate owner who used the losses to offset income from other operations), and the Yankees entered into a ONE BILLION DOLLAR TV deal. Just when we thought we knew the answers, the questions changed.

Drayton is obviously a businessman who wants to make a profit off of owning a MLB franchise
Funny...most accounts I have read say that he is not. The team is basically breaking even.

If he doesn't want to spend the money, and wants to keep crying about operating at a loss, then sell the team.
Who would buy a baseball team to lose money on operating it? I sure can't think of anybody. This is why MLB can't find anybody to buy the Expos. If you change the owner, that does not mean that the revenue numbers will change. It will be the same story with a different face in the owner's box.

Thank God for the Rockets and Texans, with owners who actually want to win it all, not just a division.
And imagine...you've listed teams from 2 sports with a salary cap. There is cost certainty in player salaries. MLB does not have that.

[francis 4 prez]

what is left on hidalgo and wagner's contracts? does wagner have one year at 9M and hidalgo 2 years at 8M left? could we ever really trade wagner? he's so damn dominant and would he be able to command 9M again? hasn't the market come down on relievers lately? hidalgo makes sense b/c his value is high and so is his contract. anyway, i just wanna know since they are brought up in trades so often. oh and make carlos beltran happen.

edit: well nm on hidalgo, just read (and then remember i read it earlier) that next year is a contract year.

[JBIIRockets]

Originally posted by Refman


Why? Because he's washed up?


Why?? your still asking this???

Biggio is a rally killer. How many times do I have to say this. I'd rather see you at the plate in the clutch than this guy.

The fact that he's washed up doesn't even matter. You could call these last six games playoff games, and Biggio choked again, and yet you still think he can be an integral part of a winning ball club?? c'mon now.

Lets see, in these last 6 "playoff" games...biggio went a combined 5-25, a .200 clip with no walks. Not one freaking BB. That is unacceptable for a leadoff hitter. And keep in mind, 2 of those 5 hits came in the blowout 12-5 lose to milwaukee.

[Major]

That's one more world Series title than the Astros have. Plus the ATL also has 5 more national league championships than the Astros do, so they do have success in the playoffs. Success in the playoffs is what Drayton should care about, but he doesn't and that is not fair to Astros fans.

What do you suggest is the difference between winning in the playoffs and winning in the regular season, from the owner's perspective? In other words, if you build a team that can win 95-100 games in the regular season, what can the owner do to make it hit in the postseason? If they won all the regular season games, they obviously had good players and a good manager.

[Poloshirtbandit]

I don't think they will get rid of Biggio. I mean come on now, go to any Astros game and how many kids do you see lined up against the first base line trying to get his autograph? How many kids and women do you see wearing his jersey? It would be horrible public relations. I don't think there's any other player on the team that you can compare his popularity with besides Bagwell.

I think the best thing to do would be to use him off the bench.

[Nick]

The Astros don't have to get rid of Biggio... and they won't (they're paying him too much, and he's a cultural icon... for what that's worth.)

They, however, cannot afford to LEAVE HIM AS THE LEADOFF MAN! Does anybody remember last year? Lugo was our lead-off man till he got hurt. Jimy knows Biggio is ideally suited for the bottom of the lineup (esp. now that he knows Ensberg can be his #2 guy), but there just weren't better options this year.

I don't see why Biggio can't take the roll that Mark Grace has had during the last two years... a player who was great once, still getting paid big bucks, but doesn't play because there are better options.

Grace retired last weekend with little fanfare, but you also know he didn't hurt his team's chances of winning these past two years.

So, besides pitching help (which everyone will be looking for, btw... you think the Braves were happy with their rotation?... they won despite it), the #1 PRIORITY is a lead-off man. He doesn't neccessarily have to be a CF, although that would be a nice tidy package (and, most lead-off men ARE either CF or 2B).

Another priority is improving the 'Stros bench. Honestly... do we realize we're paying Merced over 2 Million a year for a job that could probably be done better by somebody down in AAA? The same applied to B. Hunter when he was still on the team. At least Viz is versatile enough to play some decent defense at different positions... but even he becomes costly if he doesn't produce with his bat.

The FINAL priority would be to improve pitching... why is this the final priority?... because, I HONESTLY don't beleive it was as big as a problem that many made it out to be. Obviously, you can't have guys like Robertson sporting a 5.00 ERA, but the pitching staff overall (even Robertson), won many more games for us than they lost.

The progress of Rosario and Hernandez will weigh HUGE on the future success of this team.

I do believe Hernandez will come back even stronger... mainly because he did have some VERY GOOD starts in 2002... and that was when he was pitching hurt.

Rosario is more of a question mark... but perhaps he could fill the roll Lidge did this year, thereby freeing up the oppurtunity to trade Wagner. (which is easier said than done... does anybody have ANY possible trade scenarios on who they'd want for him?)

Finally, everybody should understand the differences between Baseball and Basketball... its about 150 times harder to make the playoffs in baseball, and its twice as hard as that to do it at a competitive disadvantage financially. Obviously, far more teams are competitive for the playoffs in basketball (which makes the Rockets dissapointment even more magnified), and Baseball IS the tougher sport to be good at consitently.

That being said, I still wish Drayton's comments would have been a little less cheery after everyone on his team is obviously dissapointed.

[bobrek]

The Astros are a good team and have been a good team for the past 10 years (excluding the 2000 aberration). Unfortunately, baseball is not like all of the other sports where around 50% of the teams make the playoffs. 25% of the teams make the playoffs in the NL. Once again, while I am certainly disappointed that they did not get in the playoffs, they were in contention up through game 161. For 9 of the past 10 years, they have finished first or second. This has been both a blessing and a curse. The curse is that they have not been able to dump veteran players in July or August to contending teams, thus they have had to rely on their own very competent minor league system to keep supplying players. They have also had to get rid of some of their talent (and/or depth) to acquire players late in the season.

For those of you who don't want people extolling the Astros virtues by bringing up the fact they won 4 division titles in the past (now 7 seasons), isn't it then hypocritical to continually bring up their past failures?

I have been a Colt .45/Astro fan for as long or longer than anyone else on this board. To me the past 10 years have been great. Much better than the first 10. Much better than any period of time in their history. Am I happy when they lose in the playoffs or suck as they have the past 2 games, of course not, but after the season is over I look back and the good times, far and away, outnumber the bad.

Year in and year out they compete. They are a team well respected by other teams and fans across the country. They are a team of players that goes out every game and does their job without showboating. They play hard and generally play smart. Regardless of your feelings for Biggio and Bagwell they set the tone for the expected behavior and work ethic of every player on the team.

I suspect that the lineup that played yesterday is the same one you will see next year unless a major trade is made. The only major trade I can see that would dramatically alter the lineup would be to trade Kent for an accomplished center fielder but I can't see them doing that at this time.

This year has shown them to have 3 competent starters in Oswalt, Miller and Redding. For Redding being such a 'head case', as the media has led us to believe, he certainly had good ERA numbers. Redding is 15th in the NL in ERA, ahead of such guys as Morris, Ortiz, Hampton, Maddux and Leiter. With Robinson's run support, Redding would have won 20 games. When healthy, Oswalt is as good as they get and Miller is a workhorse. They need two starters. Hopefully Hernandez wil be healthy and continue to display the prowess that he has showed. Robinson would be fine as the 5th guy, but Rosario looks to be better. It would also be good to throw Lidge into the mix.

With the exception of Wagner's salary, there is nothing wrong with him. He is a good closer, although it is the most overrated position in baseball. Look at the closers on the NL playoff teams - Smoltz, Joe Borowski, Tim Worrell and Looper/Urbina. 3 of the teams filled that role with journeymen. If anyone would take Wagner, The Astros could probably get by especially if they sign Dotel to a long term deal.

The bench was terrible. The one statistic that continues to jump out at me is Merced's sub .200 pinch hit average YET he set the record for most at bats by a Houston pinch hitter. Why keep trotting him out there? You may say that he was the best of a bad lot (especially when Vizcaino was hurt), but someone explain to me why he had OVER TWICE AS MANY pinch hit at bats as Ensberg and Blum combined (32). Generally, Blum and Ensberg did not play at the same time so one should have been available over Merced during most games. I hate the lefty/righty matchups - arghhhhh!

[JBIIRockets]

Originally posted by Major

In other words, if you build a team that can win 95-100 games in the regular season, what can the owner do to make it hit in the postseason? If they won all the regular season games, they obviously had good players and a good manager.

Sure the players were good, but they were good only in the regular season. I'm sick of these type players on my favorite baseball team.

Here's what the owner can do: he can get rid of players in the offseason that suck in the clutch after getting numerous chances (aka biggio and Hidalgo), and give someone else a shot. If that means the Astros have to go through a couple of years of rebuilding or adjustment period, so be it. It's better than standing pat with a team with hitters that tend to choke when it counts. That is the best an owner can do to make the Astros hit in the playoffs.

Like I said in a previous thread, there is no way Steinbrenner would put up with this crap that Biggio has done over the years in the clutch. He would not be a Yankee long term because The Boss wouldn't want this kind of player on his team. Why can't Drayton have this same desire to improve his team?

I realize Steinbrenner has more cash than Drayton, but the Astros arent the Royals or the Expos either. and Drayton needs to put winning over loyalty. He's satisfied only with what Biggio has done in the regular season over the years, and ignores Biggio's choking ways, and that is a shame.

[JBIIRockets]

Originally posted by Poloshirtbandit
It would be horrible public relations.


Public relations over winning ballgames when they count? You and Drayton would get along just fine. :rolleyes:

[GATER]

Disclaimer - I am a casual MLB fan at best and an Astros fan solely by virtue of spending 16 adult years in Houston. I'm pretty much a Rockets only fan and the vast majority of you know much, much more about the Astros than I do. But I feel the need to comment...

My casual watching started to peak and I intended upon watching every single pitch of the last SFG @ Houston series. The Rockets appeared to be playing well and the Giants seemed a good yardstick of how well. Heck, the Giants at the time only had 10 more wins, the Stros were first in the NLC and were at home.

Beginning with the first inning of the first game, I immediately knew they were cooked. The whole team, vets and Sept. call-ups, had that "deer in the headlights" look. Maybe that is what the Dotel comment was getting at. At any rate, the Giants had swagger, the Astros just staggered.

I don't have the insight that you hardcore baseball fans have. I can't tell if it's better ownership, field management, scouting, players, payroll expenditures, fan attendance or something else...

But I am convinced that if the goal is the NLCS and beyond, the current fold was no fluke...they do not have a team that is NLCS competitive and without changes this casual fan can't see how he will be in store for any positive surprises next September. This is a team in need of severe revamping. It just does not have a winning attitude. And maybe that starts at the very top.

If this seems to obvious, please avoid the impulse to bash me. I have made no pretense at baseball expertise. It's just a view from afar.

[DaDakota]

Dotel,

Here is an idea...THROW A FRICKEN STRIKE so you don't walk the TYING run in against San Francisco.......


The whole team stunk this last week.

DD

[sweetie]

The solution,while painful,is this.

Boycott all the Astros games. Dont go. Make Drayton lose so much money he is forced to sell. He cant move the team becuz of the lease I believe just like the Roxc are locked in here for 30 years.

Then ,hopefully he sells to a billionaire who will spend $$$.

That simple. I have NEVER gone to astros game since 1986. Not becuz Im not a fan,but becuz Im not stupid and dont want to support lousy coaches(dierker,99 playoffs bases loaded no outs,didnt know how to sac to bring 1 run home) and owners.

[bobrek]

Originally posted by sweetie
The solution,while painful,is this.

Boycott all the Astros games. Dont go. Make Drayton lose so much money he is forced to sell. He cant move the team becuz of the lease I believe just like the Roxc are locked in here for 30 years.

Then ,hopefully he sells to a billionaire who will spend $$$.

That simple. I have NEVER gone to astros game since 1986. Not becuz Im not a fan,but becuz Im not stupid and dont want to support lousy coaches(dierker,99 playoffs bases loaded no outs,didnt know how to sac to bring 1 run home) and owners.

So then you must consider all of us fans who have attended Astros games since 1986 stupid since you don't go to the games because you are not stupid - correct?

[Smokey]

I don't have the final total attendance tally but if it makes anyone feel any better it is safe to assume it declined this season compared to last year. Declined in a season the Astros were in contention. If that doesn't say "screw you Scrooge", I don't know what does.

[BobFinn*]

I just had to laugh after reading Drayton's quote:

"just behind the Cubs.

"So I'm proud of what we accomplished this year. It's easy to get discouraged and say we should have won this game, but I'm very proud of what the club accomplished this year."

Can you imagine those words coming out of George Steinbrenner's mouth?

What this team needs is a kick in the ass. To sign these guys to these huge contracts and then let them off the hook by saying "I am happy with what we accomplished this year"

What exactly does that mean? That it's ok to blow a 2 game lead in the division? That it's ok to pitch like someone who has never read a scouting report?

Someone has to put pressure on these guys, they can't get away with this, can they?. If it's Drayton, The Hun or Jimy it doesn't matter, it's results that matter, and right now this team is getting zero results. To come out and say "Oh it's ok we'll get them next year" is a joke. Someone should have stepped up in that clubhouse and kicked some serious ass to wake these guys up.

Gater said it best with his "Deer in headlights" quote. It seems the bigger the game, the more this team loses interest. They look almost apathetic. I think it may be time for a change, as much as I like Bagwell we should get something for him while he is still able to produce. Biggio will be impossible to unload with his contract, and Hidalgo should be shopped around as well.

I want guys with a burning desire to succeed (and don't swing at pitches a foot outside):) If he strikes out I want to see him slam his bat down, curse at himself, go in the clubhouse and beat the crap out of the water cooler. Always remember, "Nice guys finish last"

I don't want a player who meekly walks back to the dugout like he did nothing wrong. Maybe it's just me but thats the way I feel.

[bigtexxx]

Originally posted by sweetie
The solution,while painful,is this.

Boycott all the Astros games. Dont go. Make Drayton lose so much money he is forced to sell. He cant move the team becuz of the lease I believe just like the Roxc are locked in here for 30 years.

Then ,hopefully he sells to a billionaire who will spend $$$.

That simple. I have NEVER gone to astros game since 1986. Not becuz Im not a fan,but becuz Im not stupid and dont want to support lousy coaches(dierker,99 playoffs bases loaded no outs,didnt know how to sac to bring 1 run home) and owners.

You're a sorry excuse for a fan.

[rockets-#1]

Drayton McClane sucks. Spend more money. Make a big trade.

[Nick]

What was the deal with the roof today... I noticed they were only rolling it back in the 3rd inning.

Today might have been one of the most beautiful days of the year... not a cloud in the sky.

I, however, would like to attribute this team's bad play this final week to roof management. (yes, roof management)

Last monday, the first game back against the Giants, the roof was opened at the START of the game for the first time in a long time.

It was open again the following night during the blowout loss.

Then, on the day-game the following day (where Oswalt won 2-1), it was closed despite it being a very nice day (don't tell me that the players or manager didn't have a say in this... )

I think they got so used to playing with the roof on, that the on-again, off-again policy throughout this past week contributed to the team's terrible play.

Thanks a lot Drayton! (just to tie it back to the subject of the thread... I know he had nothing to do with it, and I know the roof wasn't the real reason... but it is fun to point these things out.)

[ArtV]

Originally posted by Refman
...
NO owner is going to "open up the wallet" and LOSE MONEY. Nobody. Team payroll went up this year and attendance went down.

I foresee a further dropping of attendance and increase in payroll (unless they have a fire sale). What I don't foresee are any trophies under this current owner. When you're glad about this finish because you didn't spend as much as 1 and 3, you have a loser mentality.

[Fegwu]

Originally posted by ArtV
I foresee a further dropping of attendance and increase in payroll (unless they have a fire sale). What I don't foresee are any trophies under this current owner. When you're glad about this finish because you didn't spend as much as 1 and 3, you have a loser mentality.


At least we have Les Alexander to bail us out in the "Trophies" Department.

We need help; in the attitude, pitching and bench departments - especially attitude wise. We need more swagger. The lukewarm attitude is okay but that is not what this team needs - we need a few spark plug kind of players that can catalytically ignite our team with the attitude, fire, hunger and general personally.

Also I will fine if we can package 1 or 2 of our players for an inning eating starting pitcher. Only Roy and Wade do I have confidence in going into next season. Hernandez' injury prone nature still worries me; Redding (despite his descent ERA) and Robertson still do not inspire confidence when they take the mound. Villone is who he is ............ Ron Villone. We need another stud pitcher.

I am disspointed about the Astros demise but thank God for Yao Ming, JVG and the Rockets whose pre season starts in a matter of days. And yeah the Texans.

[mrpaige]

If only the Astros could get an owner like Tom Hicks.

[DavidS]

Originally posted by JBIIRockets
Drayton's problem is that he only cares about winning divisions. If he cared about getting to the World Series he would force the Astros brass to make some big time changes to the current ballclub.


BINGO!

[Poloshirtbandit]

Originally posted by JBIIRockets
Public relations over winning ballgames when they count? You and Drayton would get along just fine. :rolleyes:

I didn't say it was the best solution, I'm just saying that's why Biggio will probably not be leaving. I'm with the person that made the Mark Grace reference.

[Poloshirtbandit]

I just saw Wagner's comment on the news about how he doesn't expect to come back next year. He made some reference about how they just needed one SP and they would have "had something special." I didn't think the pitching was that bad. The Braves don't have that spectacular of pitching and look at them. It's all about the hitting and getting runs in.

As for Hernandez, I really don't think he'll ever be as good as he was his first two or three games.

[Nick]

Originally posted by Poloshirtbandit
I just saw Wagner's comment on the news about how he doesn't expect to come back next year. He made some reference about how they just needed one SP and they would have "had something special." I didn't think the pitching was that bad. The Braves don't have that spectacular of pitching and look at them. It's all about the hitting and getting runs in.

As for Hernandez, I really don't think he'll ever be as good as he was his first two or three games.

I'd like to know what SP Billy was talking about, cause the only one who was traded who made somewhat of a difference was Ponson... and that wasn't that great of a difference either (not enough to give up Hidalgo or Ensberg).

It IS about hitting for this team. They were too inconsistent... they'd win 5 or 6 games by ten runs, but lose so so many by one run (and they'd only score 2 or 3 in the process). That inconsistency needs to be addressed. (or, they need to move to the AL).

As far as Hernandez is concerned, sure he probably never will reach his form of 2001 (that awesome 96 MPH, followed by a curve that was unhittable)... but his 2002 form (when he was hurt) wasn't that bad either... certainly better than Robertson. He had several high strikeout games, and he even had a complete game once.

If that Hernandez (the injured one) was pitching in Robertson's spot in the rotation this year (with all that run support), he would have easily won 20 games.

And hopefully, the surgery will FIX something, and make him even better than how he was last year.

[moomoo]

The pitcher Billy Wagner was talking about was Woody Williams, according to the broadcast.

Billy basically ripped into Drayton, but all he really did was tell the truth by saying that he thinks he and probably Hidalgo will be traded because the Astros are not about doing what it takes to "get better," but instead are about doing just enough to "be competitive."

[Jebus]

Originally posted by Poloshirtbandit
I don't think they will get rid of Biggio. I mean come on now, go to any Astros game and how many kids do you see lined up against the first base line trying to get his autograph? How many kids and women do you see wearing his jersey? It would be horrible public relations. I don't think there's any other player on the team that you can compare his popularity with besides Bagwell.

I think the best thing to do would be to use him off the bench.

not to be sexist (or "ageist" - is that even a word?), but..

kids and women.. that's telling us something, I think..

[Major]

Sure the players were good, but they were good only in the regular season.

Not the owner's fault.

Here's what the owner can do: he can get rid of players in the offseason that suck in the clutch after getting numerous chances (aka biggio and Hidalgo), and give someone else a shot.

You think SF should have gotten rid of Barry Bonds under the same theory?

It's better than standing pat with a team with hitters that tend to choke when it counts. That is the best an owner can do to make the Astros hit in the playoffs.


Berkman, Hildago, Biggio, Bagwell, Berry, Bell, Alou, Everett, Kent, Caminiti, Ensberg, Ward, etc. We haven't had all the same "star" players year in and year out on this team. Changing the players has gotten the same results. We brought Alou in after his near-MVP world series performance and he did no better than anyone else.

[Jebus]

Originally posted by Poloshirtbandit

As for Hernandez, I really don't think he'll ever be as good as he was his first two or three games.

It would be hard to be better than his first three games:

3-0
17.2 ip
2 er (1.02 ERA)
17 k
7 bb

looking at just the first 2 is even better:

2-0
13 ip
0 er
14 k
3 bb

So it's not really fair to say "I doubt he'll be better than his first few games." - nobody could be better than his first few games.

I'll settle for him being better than Ron Villone, Jared Fernandez, Munro, Saarloos, or any of the other scrubs they used to fill the rotation this year.

[Nick]

I'm fine with trading these guys (Hidalgo and Wagner), as long as it brings back some MAJOR LEAGUE TALENT in return.

The last cost-cutting move the 'Stros made was dealing Carl Everett for Adam Everett. Sure that trade looks OKAY now, but it took a whole 3 years for us to get SOMETHING out of it... that can't be the case this time around.

Its just sad that even though this team is in a new stadium, the same cost cutting moves that Drayton made in the Dome exist here today.

Personally, I have no idea what the market is for Wagner and Hidalgo... only high end paying teams need apply. Also, trading either of these guys to a Division foe is OFF LIMITS... (unless the Cubs are offering Prior... which they won't).

Hell... the Padres are looking to make a run next year. Trade these guys for Adam Eaton or Mark Kotsay, and maybe we have a deal.

[mrpaige]

Here's what the owner can do: he can get rid of players in the offseason that suck in the clutch after getting numerous chances (aka biggio and Hidalgo), and give someone else a shot.

Actually, that's what the GM should do. The owner should trust the GM to do the right thing. If the GM isn't performing to expectations, get a new one. But the owner shouldn't be that involved with the operations of the team.

[DVauthrin]

It wasn't a bad year.

This team got virtually nothing out of its two aces most of the year, lost two key hitters for a month long stretch each, didn't get a typical lance berkman year or jeff kent year and yet improved on last years 84-78 record.

I'm not saying I'm happy that the astros are sitting home for october, but how much can you expect out of a team? The braves and yankees have really been the only constants in the postseason the last 10 years, and both have top 5 payrolls in the game. The braves are where they are because of Giles and Lopez this year. Them having career years has turned a solid offense into a god like one. It surely isn't their pitching or defense.

Also look at San Francisco. I'm amazed at how they got 100 wins. They have a decent at best supporting cast for Bonds, and one true ace in Schmidt. Felipe Alou did a marvelous job and they won a lot of close games. I'm not sure if this is the case now, but for much of the season the Astros had a better run differential than the Giants.

Personally, I don't like baseball's playoff setup. Every year a good team or two sits at home because only 4 teams from each league make it. In the AL, Seattle deserved at least a small shot, and you could make a case for the Whitesox. In the NL, the Astros, Phillies, Cardinals, Dodgers, and even DBacks could make a case.

I understand the feeling of unhappiness that one's team missed the chance to win it all by a close margin, but as long as baseball insists on making its postseason such an exclusive club there will be a good team or two left out from each league, and sadly with such a balanced NL, a lot of good teams aren't playing in October this year.

87-75 is not something to put your nose up at, especially with all the Astros problems this year.

And I will reiterate, I hate the fact the Cubs won the division. I hate the fact our most reliable part of our team cost us monday vs SF. I hate the fact we couldn't sweep the lowly brewers.

But it does not make it a bad year. A dissapointing one? Yes.

But you could be a fan in Cincinnati or Pittsburgh going through a seemingly never ending rebuilding process with nothing to show for it.

So keep things in perspective.

[Houstonrocketss]

Wagner said it best....he does not go out and spend the money to make a serious contender.

Wagner we will miss you buddy........


Drayton thanks for another lie.

[rockets-#1]

Great post DVauthrin. Not a bad season, but a real dissapointing final week.

[JBIIRockets]

Not the owner's fault.

It is the owner's fault. It's his fault for opting to keep these type players around. Take Biggio for instance. He knows that Biggio sucks when it counts (because Biggio has been doing this for many years now), but yet Drayton still wants him on the team. And since he does, it shows he doesn't care about winning in the playoffs and beyond. So it is the owner's fault.

You think SF should have gotten rid of Barry Bonds under the same theory?

well, let's say it's just after the 2000 playoffs when they lost to the Mets..and Barry choked again..trading him is something I would have considered believe it or not...I am a fan that wants to win, and despite all his MVPs, Barry wasn't displaying that ability when it counted the most.

would I have wanted to get rid of the Barry of 2001 and after, hell no...but getting rid of Barry pre 2001 (for an extra arm or another slugger), would have been an option I would have looked at

But I think i may know where your going with this.....You may be saying give Hidalgo time, he'll figure out how to hit when it counts. I aint buying it. Hidalgo is no Bonds. Trade him now while his stats are decent.

Berkman, Hildago, Biggio, Bagwell, Berry, Bell, Alou, Everett, Kent, Caminiti, Ensberg, Ward, etc. We haven't had all the same "star" players year in and year out on this team. Changing the players has gotten the same results. We brought Alou in after his near-MVP world series performance and he did no better than anyone else.

That is true in some sense. But alot of that change has been by just minor leaguers coming up to the team, and that is not good enough. I want McLane to change the ballclub more frequently by bringing in free agent hitters in the offseasons. He did a good job with Alou and with Kent last year. But he needs to come through again this offseason, and the best way would be to replace Doggy with another bat.

Notice how most the players that come up through the Astros minor leagues are the ones that have choked in the past...Bagwell, Biggio, Hidalgo, Berkman in the 2001 playoffs....whereas most of the players Drayton has picked up via FA, are decent clutch hitters, Alou, Kent, he brought in Cammy in 1999 (his only busts were Bell and Carl everett)..if you want to do roll players, he also brought in Spiers and Viz)

With Alou, he didn't do much because you didn't have Biggio and Bell getting on base for him. (or you had bagwell/berkman/or hidalgo grounding into DPs before alou got up there) Alou was always up with no one on. Alou is at his best in the clutch (that means with runners on base). Alou is a clutch performer, but he can't do it all by himself.

Notice how Biggio, who has been here year in and year out, has been the root of all these problems.

[JBIIRockets]

Originally posted by mrpaige

Actually, that's what the GM should do. The owner should trust the GM to do the right thing. If the GM isn't performing to expectations, get a new one. But the owner shouldn't be that involved with the operations of the team.

your right, and I want to say, if the Hun (and not Drayton) is one that believes Biggio is still a vital part of the team, hun should be fired by Drayton, but that hasn't happened yet, which leads me to believe Drayton has some input, especially after hearing his BS comments.

[JBIIRockets]

Originally posted by DVauthrin

But you could be a fan in Cincinnati or Pittsburgh going through a seemingly never ending rebuilding process with nothing to show for it.

So keep things in perspective.

It's this complacent attitude why Astros fans can let anything bad slide, like choke jobs.

I don't understand these kind of comments. The bottom line is that we are not Cincinnati or Pittsburgh. Us Astro fans should not be satisfied with just winning divisions (or getting close in this case) just because other teams have really struggled over the years. Fans should crave improvement. and the Astros have not done that.

This wasn't a good season. We had a 3 1/2 game lead at one point (over the cards), we had a 5 game lead over the Cubs at one point in the second half of the season, and gave it away. Some had the Astros going to the World Series.

ugh....Astros fans need to be more demanding.

[don grahamleone]

JBII,
Do you think Jimy Williams did a good job this year?

[Sister Ray]

I'll trade ten years of .580 ball for a World Champion. Does anyone get a warm, fuzzy feeling about the 1997 division championship? Ever? By November of 1997 most *Astros* forgot about that season. I was at game five of the 1980 Championship Series against Philadelphia and I'll trade that crushing defeat for ten years of bland success and inevitable playoff disapointment.
I'll laud Biggio and Bagwell's professionalism and for grinding it out day after day and I will applaud Berkman and Kent's talent, but the best clutch hitter on the Astros is Jose Vizcaino. Think about that. I think it all starts from the top. There is no culture of doing whatever it takes to win on the Astros because that has limits at every level of the club. The rhetoric of "have you done what it takes to be aq champion today?" simply doesn't jibe with reality and that has to seep down to the minds of the players. Big acquisition at the trading deadline this year was Dan Miceli? Be still me beating heart...
What Drayton's comments signify to me is that, ultimately, the Astros are like a few dozen cases of pepsi on aisle three to him. They are product to sell to the shopper in his shiny ballpark and as long as people keep coming to Enron/Minute Maid/? Field, being competitive is enough.

[francis 4 prez]

man, i guess if some of you spout off enough cliches in this thread and really give it 110%, we'll get this thing turned around, go full steam ahead, and then just take it one day at a time from there.


how many trades do y'all think a team can make? haven't we had several deadline deals recently, one including some guy named randy johnson. and haven't we brought in alou and kent and brought up berkman, ensberg, and everett, oswalt, miller, hernandez, etc? how much turnover do you need? there's basically bagwell, biggio, ausmus and hidalgo from recent times still left. and who in their right minds would get rid of bagwell at this point. i mean a local legend who just had a 37 homer season? the wheels haven't exactly come off yet for him.

and if our players are so terrible and horrible in the clutch, why is everyone going to be jumping at the chance to trade us guys who are great in the clutch?

Big acquisition at the trading deadline this year was Dan Miceli? Be still me beating heart...

and of course you're solution was....? considering the relative dearth of pitching talent there wasn't much to want. oh and there's that matter of having to give up talent to get it. should we have dropped a major leaguer off to get someone? or perhaps a minor leaguer. we don't know who they are so it really doesn't count. who needs a farm system. just as long as we make a significant deal.


and JBII, what's with the "us astros fans" thing. we're not special. we try to accumulate talent w/in the constraint of a payroll like everyone else and hope it all works out. for a decade it's worked out fairly well. winning the world series or nlcs isn't exactly our birthright or anything. hunsicker has done about as good a job as you can possibly do with his budget. if you want clutch players but not as good in the regular season, then we probably never make the playoffs. and if you want clutch regular season and postseason guys, well so does everybody and it's gonna cost you.

I am a fan that wants to win

ahh, a rare breed.


you know, i'd have liked to have thrown a brick through my tv several times watching the astros, but sometimes reality is reality and fixing stuff doesn't just happen b/c you really want it or just by trading everyone off. the end result could end up a lot worse.

[codell]

Drayton was on the radio with Milo during the game yesterday. When Bags hit his 2nd home run, Drayton said "See, that shows you that Jeff wants to win".

I found this statement to be quite insulting to us as fans because 1) As much as I feel they choked, I never doubted any of our player's desire to win and 2) Its easier to hit two home runs when the game is meaningless.

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally posted by Sister Ray
...but the best clutch hitter on the Astros is Jose Vizcaino.
Having debates over something as subjective as "clutchness" is kinda silly, but the small amount of statistical data available, coupled with my personal observations this season, basically indicate that your statement above lacks any sort of basis in reality.

BA in "close & late" situations:

Ensberg - .322
Hidalgo - .306
Kent - .276
Berkman - .274

[droxford]

Originally posted by JBIIRockets
Drayton's problem is that he only cares about winning divisions. If he cared about getting to the World Series he would force the Astros brass to make some big time changes to the current ballclub.
Nope. Drayton cares about making money. If he says he's happy with where we finished this year, what he really means is, "I'm happy with how much revenue was generated this year."

-- droxford

[BobFinn*]

Originally posted by DVauthrin
It wasn't a bad year.

This team got virtually nothing out of its two aces most of the year, lost two key hitters for a month long stretch each, didn't get a typical lance berkman year or jeff kent year and yet improved on last years 84-78 record.

I'm not saying I'm happy that the astros are sitting home for october, but how much can you expect out of a team?

Despite the fact that we got nothing from the 2 aces, and lost 2 key hitters for a stretch, we were still in first place AND they were all back playing. Oswalt was tremendous down the stretch, Miller never did get it together for whatever reason. Berks and Kent were both in the lineup when the Astros had the division lead.

There is NO excuse for ending the season the way they did. I would understand if they were facing a good pitching team or a good hitting team, but Milwaukee was neither. It almost looked like they were'nt prepared to play, almost like they thought the Cubs would blow it and they would get in. Sorry gang, that didn't work.

I am a long time Stros fan and have seen the worst Astro teams in history. That's why it is so frustrating watching this team finally get the talent to take us to the promised land and still fail.

I have come to the conclusion that this team sorely lacks a leader. We have too many quiet leaders who lead by example. We need a fiery presence in the locker room who is not afraid to speak out. Someone who stands up and is willing to take all the blame. That would take the pressure off everyone else, because we all know this current team does not handle pressure well at all.

Originally posted by DVauthrin


Personally, I don't like baseball's playoff setup. Every year a good team or two sits at home because only 4 teams from each league make it. In the AL, Seattle deserved at least a small shot, and you could make a case for the Whitesox. In the NL, the Astros, Phillies, Cardinals, Dodgers, and even DBacks could make a case.

Look, if after 162 games if you can't win your division or get a good enough record for the wild card you don't deserve to be in the playoffs. After the long season, the last thing we need are playoffs that last another 2 months.

[JBIIRockets]

Originally posted by droxford
Nope. Drayton cares about making money. If he says he's happy with where we finished this year, what he really means is, "I'm happy with how much revenue was generated this year."

-- droxford

can't disagree with that totally, but drayton does care about having some degree of success on the field, just not the ultimate prize. If the astros went 66-96 every year, there would be noticibly less fans at MMP.

[JBIIRockets]

Originally posted by francis 4 prez

and JBII, what's with the "us astros fans" thing. we're not special. we try to accumulate talent w/in the constraint of a payroll like everyone else and hope it all works out. for a decade it's worked out fairly well. winning the world series or nlcs isn't exactly our birthright or anything.

i didn't realize I nor you wasn't special. Try telling this to the Astros fan who has been following the ballclub for 30 years, and has seen all 7 of the Astros playoff failures without seeing a playoff series win. I don't expect the Astros to win in the playoffs every year, but in the 40 plus years of the franchise, you'd i think it would happen at least once.

Originally posted by francis 4 prez

hunsicker has done about as good a job as you can possibly do with his budget. if you want clutch players but not as good in the regular season, then we probably never make the playoffs. and if you want clutch regular season and postseason guys, well so does everybody and it's gonna cost you.

Actually,I feel Hunsicker could do better. He could go to Drayton's face and say "I want players like Biggio off this team." One bad move was The Hun giving up Alou so Ward could play. another huge error that Hun and Drayton made was signing Biggio to an extension. The Astros have some money, they just aren't using wisely all the time. So it doesn't have to cost the Astros. They just have to evaluate talent better than they do now.


Originally posted by francis 4 prez

but sometimes reality is reality and fixing stuff doesn't just happen b/c you really want it or just by trading everyone off. the end result could end up a lot worse.

Well, that is the chance that the Astros take. And this risk is worth it now after seeing these now endless end-of the-season choke jobs the Astros pull every year. It's time to make some drastic changes.

[Drewdog]

Originally posted by Jared Novak


And for Drayton apologists, you're right... he doesn't need to open his wallet to lose money. But he does need to recognize that fans don't want to keep hearing about how much money he has lost and how much he is still losing when he has new revenue streams from MMP. Drayton is obviously a businessman who wants to make a profit off of owning a MLB franchise, what he needs to realize if that owning a professional sports team is basically a billionaire's toy. If he doesn't want to spend the money, and wants to keep crying about operating at a loss, then sell the team. But don't come up with crap quotes about being proud of an underachieving team whom he doesn't feel the need to spend money to improve upon.

Thank God for the Rockets and Texans, with owners who actually want to win it all, not just a division.

Damn right!!!

I remember SPECIFICALLY reading in the Houston Chronicle a year before Minute Maid Park was built of Drayton saying that with the new revenues at the new ballpark, we would be able to SPEND more and be able to compete with the big boys. Did that happen? Hell no. He rode the tails of Bags and Bidge, milked the farm dry and had Hunsicker work his magic year in and year out.

Bottom line is that McClane is a FU#KING Fortune 500 Billionaire worth 1.2 billion. He is the richest man in MLB period. No one even comes close. Not a Millionaire a freaking BILLIONAIRE folks. You cant have a Wal-Mart philosophy running a baseball team. And you cant swindle me into thinking that you are losing money anymore.... Thats a complete crock of dog sh!t and I aint buying!! I pay $12 freaking dollars for a damn beer and a hot dog!!! Thats a profit margin of about 800 - 1000%. Most companies would drool to get those margins. It seems to me that you are a pretty good liar about things Drayton...

Id rather watch the Texans and Rockets simply because now I know where those teams stand - THEY WANT TO BUILD CHAMPIONSHIP CALIBER TEAMS. Its clear to me that Drayton wants to just be competitive within his puny - bullsh!t - feel sorry for me cuz Im loosing sooooooooooo much money - cry me a freaking river - we'll do what we can - wah wah wah - budget.

Take pride in knowing full well that you have officially been crowned the most despised sports owner in Houston, Texas. We dont want bullsh!t excuses anymore..... we can see right through your lying eyes.

Do us a favor Drayton - PLEASE - Sell the team to an owner who is comiited to winning a championship. Not just someone who wants to win.

Its going to be hard for me to watch the Astros next year.


:mad:

[JunkyardDwg]

Originally posted by Drewdog
remember SPECIFICALLY...

Though I agree w/ some of ure points....it wasn't Drayton that pulled a major choke job at the end of this seaon, or any seasons and in the playoffs for that matter....u know he did sign Kent last offseason supossedly to bring that fire/spark/clutch hitting this team lacked...well, where the hell was he in the last two weeks...oh yeah, a couple of his errors cost us a few games. Yeah, Drayton maybe should spend more, but that doesn't guarantee anything.

[Drewdog]

Originally posted by JunkyardDwg
Yeah, Drayton maybe should spend more, but that doesn't guarantee anything.

Well it instills in the fans that he is comitted to winning a CHAMPIONSHIP not just winning games. He should move to San Diego and take care of the Padres.

[MadMax]

Drew -- he did spend more on the team...a lot more...with the passage of the stadium referendum. he started spending even before he moved out of the Dome, in that regard.

honestly...how can anyone lay this at the feet of the owner? that seems so silly to me. guys just never performed in the playoffs..guys who DID perform in the regular season. i just can't lay that on the owner...that's just a sad excuse for the players, to me.

[JPM0016]

I think this article just about sums it up


Sept. 30, 2003, 9:11AM


COMMENTARY
Astros makeover should start from owner down
By RICHARD JUSTICE
Copyright 2003 Houston Chronicle

Here's what Astros owner Drayton McLane should do this week. Pack his bags, turn in his hotel key and head back to Temple. Enjoy the offseason, Drayton. You've earned a break.

One other thing. Leave your checkbook on your desk.

Then McLane should do something he has never done before. He should remove himself from all baseball decisions. He should trust general manager Gerry Hunsicker, the organization's most valuable asset, to begin repairing a flawed baseball team. He should resist everything else.

If one of his superstars telephones and asks for a new contract, as a pouting Craig Biggio did last winter, McLane should tell him to call the general manager.

If his accountants tell him that closer Billy Wagner or right fielder Richard Hidalgo must be traded to save money, McLane should tell them to figure something else out.

(When Wagner offered to restructure his contract to defer salary and allow the club to make a move or two, he was told, "No thanks.")

Most of all, McLane should let the baseball people make the baseball decisions.

This will be difficult, because his nature is to have a hand in every decision.

At the same time, McLane is a bright man who surely recognizes that the Astros are sliding off the radar screen. They look one way and see the Cubs making smarter baseball moves. They look another and see the Rockets and Texans cutting into their revenues.

Their offseason shopping list should begin with the search for a No. 1 starting pitcher.

This season, Astros starters ranked ninth in the National League in ERA, sixth in victories and dead last in innings.

They'll improve in 2004 if Roy Oswalt stays healthy, if Carlos Hernandez makes a successful return from rotator cuff surgery, and if manager Jimy Williams stops pulling a starter the first time he gets into trouble.

But the Astros still need a No. 1 guy.

They need Andy Pettitte, the Deer Park native who will command, say, $60 million over five years this winter.

The Yankees probably have the inside track at re-signing him, but maybe, just maybe, Pettitte would be tempted by the chance to live at home year round. If nothing else, the Astros could show their fans they're truly interested in doing something besides forcing Hunsicker to spend the winter rummaging through baseball's bargain bins.

Wait a minute, you're saying. What about the offense? What about all those runners left on base? What about those 67 games in which the Astros scored three or fewer runs (and went 15-52)?

There's not going to be enough money to fix everything. Jeff Bagwell, Jeff Kent, Lance Berkman, Hidalgo and Biggio are all signed for 2004, leaving little flexibility at other spots. Presumably, only Berkman will be offered a contract for 2005, so Hunsicker will have some money to continue the overhaul then.

If Round Rock second baseman Chris Burke is as good as advertised, he'll be the Astros' leadoff hitter in 2005 and give the club a dimension of speed it hasn't had since Biggio injured his knee.

At the moment, McLane says the team will have a $72 million budget again next season.

This must be increased.

If it isn't, Wagner or Hidalgo will be traded. If that happens, the franchise can no longer be taken seriously.

McLane is not going to significantly increase revenues until the Astros win something in the postseason, and that's not going to happen until they add some talent. Talent costs money.

Few farm systems in the game have been more productive, but the farm system can't fill every need.

For a couple of years, McLane has watched what you've watched but refused to see what you see.

Two winters ago, he arrived at spring training and announced he'd never been more excited about a club.

Actually, he says virtually the same thing every spring. Except that when he said it two years ago, it sounded ridiculous.

"I feel like we've really improved ourselves," he said.

Huh? The club hadn't re-signed Moises Alou, Vinny Castilla and Pedro Astacio, had done almost nothing in free agency, and McLane actually thought fans would buy it if he said it.

Please.

Hunsicker surely will consider other moves. Should he allow Jason Lane to compete for the center field job next spring? Biggio is one of the two best players the franchise has ever had, but he understands the competitive aspect of things. He also understands that despite a strong September, he hit just .248 after the All-Star break.

Don't keep secrets, either.

Tell reporters of the interest in Pettitte. Tell them you're inviting Oakland shortstop Miguel Tejada and others in for visits. Tell them you intend to find out if Roger Clemens is serious about retirement. Make some headlines. Let fans know you're stirring a bit.

If you sign even one big-ticket player, announce you're raising ticket prices. If fans know the money is going to make the team better, they'll understand. But when they read that McLane's net worth is in the $1.2 billion range and realize he's still running the baseball team like a mom-and-pop donut shop, they feel cheated.

Hunsicker should also fly down to Florida for a visit with his manager. He should tell Williams that Wagner will be used differently next season, that he won't be brought into any four-run games because his left arm simply is too valuable.

The GM should also tell the skipper that he simply must allow starting pitchers to go deeper into games, even if it means fitting the dugout with a seat belt. Williams has to stop treating his starting pitchers as if they were Fabregé eggs. Even they resent it.

Williams is inclined to over-manage, to play every game like it's Game 7 of the World Series. Two weekends ago in St. Louis, he double-switched Berkman out of the game in the eighth inning.

Hunsicker will not change some things about Williams -- this odd, decent fellow. He will not make him articulate or engaging. He will not make him media-friendly.

Hunsicker probably was as annoyed as anyone by the handling of the pitching staff, but he surely agrees that Williams got about everything from this team that was there to be gotten.

He deserves to return next season.

Most of all, the Astros can't be afraid to change things a bit. At the moment, they're mediocre.

While the Giants, Braves and others make substantial changes almost every winter, the Astros have been reluctant to do anything bold.

The Cubs showed fans that improvement can come rapidly if a team's management is aggressive and not wedded to the past. The Giants almost won the 2002 World Series and decided to do a postseason makeover anyway. The Braves allowed Tom Glavine to leave and won a 12th straight division championship anyway.

The Astros could learn from all of these teams, and perhaps that's the greatest lesson they can take from this disappointing season.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Richard Justice covers major-league baseball for the Chronicle.

[xiki]

Originally posted by JunkyardDwg
Though I agree w/ some of ure points....it wasn't Drayton that pulled a major choke job at the end of this seaon, Yeah, Drayton maybe should spend more, but that doesn't guarantee anything.

Spending more guarantees nuthin'. But where was 'management' during the season when the team needed help? Oh, yeah -- waiting for Roy O to heal.

Look at how this team 'overachieved' then 'choked' and tell me, if true, whether 'management' might have been able to put pieces together to win less than 90 games and their Division.

[DaDakota]

JPM,

That artilce was RIGHT ON THE MONEY !!

DD

[Rocket104]

Originally posted by Drewdog
I remember SPECIFICALLY reading in the Houston Chronicle a year before Minute Maid Park was built of Drayton saying that with the new revenues at the new ballpark, we would be able to SPEND more and be able to compete with the big boys. Did that happen?

Bottom line is that McClane is a FU#KING Fortune 500 Billionaire worth 1.2 billion. He is the richest man in MLB period.

Do us a favor Drayton - PLEASE - Sell the team to an owner who is comiited to winning a championship. Not just someone who wants to win.

Didn't the payroll go from $50 to $70 million over the past three years? (Honest question - I haven't kept up but I'm sure it's gone up, right? Whether the increase corresponds to the increase in income from tickets/concessions/etc. is another story.)

Steinbrenner? Ted Turner / AOL? The Cubs ownership? (Honest question - I thought Steinbrenner owns/heads the MSG network and AOL is clearly worth more than $1.2 billion.)

It's funny how McLane was seen as a savior compared to the previous worst owner in Houston sports history, John McMullen.

It's definitely frustrating, even though I'm not as much of a sports fan I used to be.

[ArtV]

Mr. Justice - All's I can say is AMEN! Except while we do need a #1 (and #2) starter - I wouldn't ask Roger - too old. I would see about the A's unloading one of theirs though - they always seem to have a fire sale or 2 each year. But other than that, VERY GOOD article.

[JBIIRockets]

amazing article, amazing. Justice rocks!

btw, Drewdog, your long post was awesome!!

[MoBalls]

Wow....Great article and I totally agree.....

[JBIIRockets]

I'd like to add, that I took my Biggio argument over to the Talkzone at orangewhoopass.com..check it out for a good laugh, they are bashing me like crazy over there. They are blinded by Biggio's regular season contributions.

[JunkyardDwg]

Originally posted by Drewdog
Well it instills in the fans that he is comitted to winning a CHAMPIONSHIP not just winning games. He should move to San Diego and take care of the Padres.

Originally posted by xiki
Spending more guarantees nuthin'. But where was 'management' during the season when the team needed help? Oh, yeah -- waiting for Roy O to heal.

Look at how this team 'overachieved' then 'choked' and tell me, if true, whether 'management' might have been able to put pieces together to win less than 90 games and their Division.


Spending guarantees absolutely nothing...but I will agree that it does show a committment to winning and improving. My biggest beefs this season was that the 'Stros did nothing to improve before the trade deadline while other teams (Chicago, etc) did. That can't be squarely blamed on management though, cause there was really nothing to be had, or nothing worth further depleting our farm system or the current roster for. And then the fact that Drayton refuses to admit that this team needs some retooling, 1 or 2 other marquee players, because he just wants a winning/competitive team (and not a contending one). Well that's just not fair to the players or the fans....course for their part, the players pulling a choke job every season and then being so laid back and unemotional about it (c'mon Bags! At least Dotel and Wags had the balls to speak the truth) isn't fair to management or the fans. So it goes both ways. All I want is to see a championship caliber team on the field, and one that'll show the heart and fire a contender displays. Enough of this, "Well that's baseball and I tip my hat to them" crap!

[DVauthrin]

Originally posted by Drewdog
Damn right!!!

I remember SPECIFICALLY reading in the Houston Chronicle a year before Minute Maid Park was built of Drayton saying that with the new revenues at the new ballpark, we would be able to SPEND more and be able to compete with the big boys. Did that happen? Hell no. He rode the tails of Bags and Bidge, milked the farm dry and had Hunsicker work his magic year in and year out.

Bottom line is that McClane is a FU#KING Fortune 500 Billionaire worth 1.2 billion. He is the richest man in MLB period. No one even comes close. Not a Millionaire a freaking BILLIONAIRE folks. You cant have a Wal-Mart philosophy running a baseball team. And you cant swindle me into thinking that you are losing money anymore.... Thats a complete crock of dog sh!t and I aint buying!! I pay $12 freaking dollars for a damn beer and a hot dog!!! Thats a profit margin of about 800 - 1000%. Most companies would drool to get those margins. It seems to me that you are a pretty good liar about things Drayton...

Id rather watch the Texans and Rockets simply because now I know where those teams stand - THEY WANT TO BUILD CHAMPIONSHIP CALIBER TEAMS. Its clear to me that Drayton wants to just be competitive within his puny - bullsh!t - feel sorry for me cuz Im loosing sooooooooooo much money - cry me a freaking river - we'll do what we can - wah wah wah - budget.

Take pride in knowing full well that you have officially been crowned the most despised sports owner in Houston, Texas. We dont want bullsh!t excuses anymore..... we can see right through your lying eyes.

Do us a favor Drayton - PLEASE - Sell the team to an owner who is comiited to winning a championship. Not just someone who wants to win.

Its going to be hard for me to watch the Astros next year.


:mad:

Do I have to hit it over people's heads a million time? Revenue is baseball is based on two separate parts: one is attendance and city population, the second is media deals.

Guess what?

Houston has the first one to a T, but the cable deal in houston sucks. That is the reason the astros spend only 72 million while the Yankees double that, and the braves and cubs go 20 mil above it. The Yankees have YES, the braves have TBS, the cubs have WGN.

The Astros have KNWS, and FoxSW. Doesn't seem like a fair fight does it?

Just because Drayton is rich doesn't mean losing 30-40 mil out of his own pocket, with no guarantee of further success I might add, is a good proposition. Would you be willing to take those kind of losses if you were in his shoes and had that kind of money? It's still 30-40 million dollars, no matter how rich you are.

You talk about Steinbrenner not being on the Forbes list. Big fricken deal, the guy has a stake in the devils, Manchester United, has a great cable deal and is in the media capital of the US. No wonder he can spend 150 mil a year and ruin baseball.

Baseball needs to get its head out of its collective ass and find a flexible salary cap solution, like the NBA model. But definitely not like the overly strict NFL one.

I understand your frustration as a fan. Hell I'm pissed off too, but McClane is not the problem. Baseball's economic structure and playoff exclusiveness are the problems.

For all the bashing Drayton takes its as if fans forget he pulled the trigger for Johnson, Alou, wanted Clemens, and he has always made sure he kept the players the astros really needed to win. Like the bagwell's and biggio's of the world. I guess he didn't offer Kile, and Johnson virtually the same salary they signed for elsewhere? Oh wait, he did. He didn't sign the best players in Astros' history to longterm deals(ie Bagwell and Biggio)? Oh wait, he did. He doesn't lock up young players to the longterm deals they deserve? Oh wait, there's Hidalgo and Berkman staring you in the face.

I understand being mad the team missed the playoffs, but all this Drayton bashing is unsubstantiated crap by fans who set expectations so high for themselves that they can't possibly be happy unless the team holds the World Series trophy every year.

And not even the Yankees can do that.

[DVauthrin]

Originally posted by BobFinn*
Despite the fact that we got nothing from the 2 aces, and lost 2 key hitters for a stretch, we were still in first place AND they were all back playing. Oswalt was tremendous down the stretch, Miller never did get it together for whatever reason. Berks and Kent were both in the lineup when the Astros had the division lead.

There is NO excuse for ending the season the way they did. I would understand if they were facing a good pitching team or a good hitting team, but Milwaukee was neither. It almost looked like they were'nt prepared to play, almost like they thought the Cubs would blow it and they would get in. Sorry gang, that didn't work.

I am a long time Stros fan and have seen the worst Astro teams in history. That's why it is so frustrating watching this team finally get the talent to take us to the promised land and still fail.

I have come to the conclusion that this team sorely lacks a leader. We have too many quiet leaders who lead by example. We need a fiery presence in the locker room who is not afraid to speak out. Someone who stands up and is willing to take all the blame. That would take the pressure off everyone else, because we all know this current team does not handle pressure well at all.



Look, if after 162 games if you can't win your division or get a good enough record for the wild card you don't deserve to be in the playoffs. After the long season, the last thing we need are playoffs that last another 2 months.

Bob,

I said I was angered that we played like crap against Milwaukee. And I was disgusted that we didn't win monday vs SF. Second, I disagree vehemently about the playoffs. What you need is a fair fight. Gee more than 4 teams in the NL have winning records yet only 4 get a chance at the prize. In the AL seattle had right about 90 wins and missed the playoffs. Do they not deserve a shot?

It's this "lazy" argument that cracks me up. It's the same one the proponents of the BCS in college football use. Oh, it'll make the season too damn long, so instead we'll let a computer determine between 3 1 loss teams for the 2nd spot in the championship game or who gets screwed if 3 undefeateds from power conferences remain at the end of the year. And that 3rd or 4th team deserves to be screwed because it'll make the season too long? Give me a break.

You do what is right, and give teams a chance. Besides that, maybe it's me but I would love to see a more expanded baseball playoffs because of the upset potential. Baseball is the one sport where any team has a shot to get hot in a short series. I don't particularly hate the current setup, but I do think that 8 teams out of 30 ain't enough.

This system might have worked when you had very few teams but now with all the parity created by having 30 teams, and more competition for spots, I think you need more. And the extra 1 per league they added isn't enough.

Shorten the regular season by a week if you must, but adding more teams into the playoffs would be the right thing to do to for entertainment value and the fairness of who gets a shot at a ring.


Bottom line: If you think I'm happy my team is sitting at home, you are sorely mistaken. But I refuse to call a year with some serious underachievement and injury trouble where the team improved its win loss record from the previous year a bad one.

Because it isn't. It's just disappointing and I feel that pain, trust me.

I also agree we need a fiery leader, but isn't Kent that type? Because on paper, this team now has all the components of championship team:

Good frontline pitching in Oswalt-Miller, good offense, great bullpen, solid defense.

But something is missing, and if I could fix it I would.

However all that said, I firmly believe baseball has some fundamental economic and competitive flaws that need to be addressed, and until they are, I will not pretend that they do not exist.

[chievous minniefield]

I think Drayton's biggest problem is not the amount of money he does or doesn't spend.

I think it's two parts of his attitude:

1) wanting to be too friendly/collegial with his players

. . . it doesn't create a winning environment for your old, brokedown, fading franchise player to be able to take meetings with the owner to discuss things that should be discussed with the general manager

2) his basic willingness to accept competitiveness

. . . it's not that he doesn't want to win it all; it's just that he's okay with not winning it all

the first problem is much like the problem that has dogged Jerry Jones pre-Parcells.

the second problem is the bigger one in my opinion.

[CAKoudelka]

You know, its the same thing year after year, and usually the same people defending Drayton year after year. The problem is, how long will we contuinue to either miss the playoffs or choke in the playoffs before people realize that Drayton needs to allow the people he hired to make baseballs moves, to actually do their job. I am not saying he needs to spend more or less money, though, I think he needs to show us he is committed to winning.

Drayton seems to be happy with just being good not great, and what that translates to most fans is, I am fine with not spending too much money, at least thats the impression I get. The same people will argue that he brought in this or that person and blah blah blah, it just didnt happen, but I dont buy it, its the same tired story and same tired excuses every year.

Personally, I would be happy if he would just let Gerry build a winning team, and quit imposing a salary cap on this team. Its the only way we will ever be successful. I mean, what team that does well in the playoffs and makes it to the series has a salary cap, I am guessing zero. Drayton has money, dont let that penny pincher fool you. My thing is, why buy a baseball team, if all you are gonna do is try and cut costs ?

I know others will complain that they dont want the price of tickets to go up. Well, personally, if the price of tickets going up means that we can get some more talent on this team, ie starting pitching, I am all for it, but again, Drayton will tell you how snake bit he is for paying Drabek, cry me a river, that was years ago, he needs to get over it.

Lastly, if I wanted to watch losing, penny pinching baseball for years to come, I would move to Tampa, and watch the devil rays or slide up to detriot and be a tigers fan, I wanna see winners, at any cost, if you dont wanna run your team that way, sell it , sell it to someone like Mark Cuban, who is willing to put a good product out on the court, they may not win it all, but they sure are fun to watch.

CAK

[Jared Novak]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DVauthrin
Do I have to hit it over people's heads a million time? Revenue is baseball is based on two separate parts: one is attendance and city population, the second is media deals.

Guess what?

Houston has the first one to a T, but the cable deal in houston sucks. That is the reason the astros spend only 72 million while the Yankees double that, and the braves and cubs go 20 mil above it. The Yankees have YES, the braves have TBS, the cubs have WGN.

The Astros have KNWS, and FoxSW. Doesn't seem like a fair fight does it?

1) You have to win (not just contend) to gain more fan interest.
2) More fan interest means more television coverage.
3) More television coverage means bigger networks wanting to air your team's games.
4) Having a bigger network air your games, means more $$$ for the owner.

How does he accomplish this, by doing what it takes to win, not just contend. No network is going to just drop a big TV contract in Drayton's lap. If he wants it, he has to be willing to spend to make the team a champion, not just be content with contending. Thats a loser mentality to have.

You talk about Steinbrenner not being on the Forbes list. Big fricken deal, the guy has a stake in the devils, Manchester United, has a great cable deal and is in the media capital of the US. No wonder he can spend 150 mil a year and ruin baseball.

Notice one thing about those teams, every year they are in the thick of things in their respective leagues, sure each one has an off year every now and then, but you don't see their owner crying about not having enough even with all the revenue they get. They want to win it all. Not just contend

Baseball needs to get its head out of its collective ass and find a flexible salary cap solution, like the NBA model. But definitely not like the overly strict NFL one.

It has tried, but the player's union is too strong and will allow no such thing.

I understand your frustration as a fan. Hell I'm pissed off too, but McClane is not the problem. Baseball's economic structure and playoff exclusiveness are the problems.

You're half right, baseball economics are assinine, but Drayton is a factor in the problem as well, as soon as you can accept that, the better off you'll be.

[BobFinn*]

Originally posted by DVauthrin
Bob,

I said I was angered that we played like crap against Milwaukee. And I was disgusted that we didn't win monday vs SF. Second, I disagree vehemently about the playoffs. What you need is a fair fight. Gee more than 4 teams in the NL have winning records yet only 4 get a chance at the prize. In the AL seattle had right about 90 wins and missed the playoffs. Do they not deserve a shot?

If 90 wins didn't get them a division title or a wild card berth, than NO they don't deserve a shot. There obviously was a better team that:
1. Won Seattle's division
2. Won more games than Seattle thus getting the wild card berth.





You do what is right, and give teams a chance. Besides that, maybe it's me but I would love to see a more expanded baseball playoffs because of the upset potential. Baseball is the one sport where any team has a shot to get hot in a short series. I don't particularly hate the current setup, but I do think that 8 teams out of 30 ain't enough.

The right thing to do is to eliminate interleague games, those games should be played against division opponents. 8 out of 30 is plenty. Any more than that and winning your division means nothing, a 3rd place finish could land someone in the playoffs. Now that would be a joke (much like the NHL and NBA are)



I also agree we need a fiery leader, but isn't Kent that type? No, Kent is like Bagwell. Not vocal enough. Very laid back, unless Bonds says something to him or about him.

[DVauthrin]

So, Jared, you are telling me the last 10 years the astros haven't won?

Outside of that bad 2000, they have. It doesn't matter whether its playoff series or the regular season, if you have a good product fans will come.

And in Houston there is currently a good product.

If you are suggesting drayton pull a Marlins or DBacks type deal to increase fan interest, you do realize it very well may not work either, and then the next year you get a full scale rebuilding process as he isn't going to like losing 30 mil for nothing.

And why should the Yankees, Braves and Cubs cry? They all have top 5 ish payrolls in the game, and in the Yanks/Cubs case can make money from fan support even if they lose. They have at least 20 mil more in resources than Houston, but for the most part the Astros have been similarly successful. Obviously they don't have a title like ATL, or NY, but by being in the playoff mix the last 10 years, they've done what they've had to do to give them a shot. And we sure have done better than the Cubs. No argument there I hope.

I'm not saying Drayton is god or perfect, but he is always blamed for the Astros problems by "not spending enough". However, if one looks at his tenure as Astros owner, they would find he has done what he can to bring a marquee guy in if he feels it helps the club, or has not tried to let good players leave by offer them competitive offers. But somehow that all goes unnoticed, and he becomes the fans scapegoat.

And that's not correct and not fair. As long as houston doesn't have a great local cable station, and baseball insists on being free enterprise, the Astros will max out around 75-80 mil while teams like ATL, CHI, NY can spend 100-120.

So in conclusion, while I think drayton shouldn't be so kind to his players, it surely isn't his fault the Astros haven't won a playoff series even during this run. Is he perfect? No.

But has he made the big deals, key resignings and tried to keep others who left for less money? The answer is Yes.

Bottom line: I think mcClane gets a raw deal from a lot of Astros fans, perfect or not.

[Drewdog]

Originally posted by DVauthrin
Do I have to hit it over people's heads a million time? Revenue is baseball is based on two separate parts: one is attendance and city population, the second is media deals.

Guess what?

Houston has the first one to a T, but the cable deal in houston sucks. That is the reason the astros spend only 72 million while the Yankees double that, and the braves and cubs go 20 mil above it. The Yankees have YES, the braves have TBS, the cubs have WGN.

The Astros have KNWS, and FoxSW. Doesn't seem like a fair fight does it?

Just because Drayton is rich doesn't mean losing 30-40 mil out of his own pocket, with no guarantee of further success I might add, is a good proposition. Would you be willing to take those kind of losses if you were in his shoes and had that kind of money? It's still 30-40 million dollars, no matter how rich you are.

You talk about Steinbrenner not being on the Forbes list. Big fricken deal, the guy has a stake in the devils, Manchester United, has a great cable deal and is in the media capital of the US. No wonder he can spend 150 mil a year and ruin baseball.

Baseball needs to get its head out of its collective ass and find a flexible salary cap solution, like the NBA model. But definitely not like the overly strict NFL one.

I understand your frustration as a fan. Hell I'm pissed off too, but McClane is not the problem. Baseball's economic structure and playoff exclusiveness are the problems.

For all the bashing Drayton takes its as if fans forget he pulled the trigger for Johnson, Alou, wanted Clemens, and he has always made sure he kept the players the astros really needed to win. Like the bagwell's and biggio's of the world. I guess he didn't offer Kile, and Johnson virtually the same salary they signed for elsewhere? Oh wait, he did. He didn't sign the best players in Astros' history to longterm deals(ie Bagwell and Biggio)? Oh wait, he did. He doesn't lock up young players to the longterm deals they deserve? Oh wait, there's Hidalgo and Berkman staring you in the face.

I understand being mad the team missed the playoffs, but all this Drayton bashing is unsubstantiated crap by fans who set expectations so high for themselves that they can't possibly be happy unless the team holds the World Series trophy every year.

And not even the Yankees can do that.

A. I never once made a comment about Steinbrenner.

B. I dont settle for "being in contention" every year because like every fan who is a fan, I want to be world champs. Its like rooting for the fuc#ing T-wolves knowing damn well that there is not a chance in hell that they will make it out of the first round. THIS YEAR someone realizes that they needed to make big moves to do it - and they did. Their organization finally realized that having KG and being in the playoffs each year wasnt good enough.....

If your satisfied with winning the division every year then fine, I want to see my owner COMMIT to bringing Houston a championship, and I just dont see that in Drayton McClane.

[Jared Novak]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DVauthrin
So, Jared, you are telling me the last 10 years the astros haven't won?

Where did I say that. What I meant by my comments is that every team has its ups and downs. A couple of good years, a few bad ones. But the thing that stands out about them is they go out and acquire the players that are going to put them over the top. They don't just add a borderline mediocre player and say we'll be happy to contend.
___________________________________________________
Outside of that bad 2000, they have. It doesn't matter whether its playoff series or the regular season, if you have a good product fans will come.

And in Houston there is currently a good product.


The Astros are a good product. Never denied that. However, in a town with the Texans and the Rockets making headway to get back to the elite in the NBA, the Astros can and will be forgotten as the third big league franchise in Houston, if they don't make any major moves.

___________________________________________________
If you are suggesting drayton pull a Marlins or DBacks type deal to increase fan interest, you do realize it very well may not work either, and then the next year you get a full scale rebuilding process as he isn't going to like losing 30 mil for nothing.

I realize that it is a road not taken by McLane, and maybe its time to try something else.
___________________________________________________

And why should the Yankees, Braves and Cubs cry? They all have top 5 ish payrolls in the game, and in the Yanks/Cubs case can make money from fan support even if they lose. They have at least 20 mil more in resources than Houston, but for the most part the Astros have been similarly successful. Obviously they don't have a title like ATL, or NY, but by being in the playoff mix the last 10 years, they've done what they've had to do to give them a shot. And we sure have done better than the Cubs. No argument there I hope.

Drayton has never opened the books, he has never been square with the public. All we have heard for the last ten years is how much Drayton has lost. Its simple, if you can't afford it, then don't play the game. Sell the team. Atlanta is a good example of a team that was in mediocrity, but had an owner who wanted to win. Ted Turner started somewhere, he took a loss (albeit a small one) to make a big gain. If Drayton were smart he'd pay to make the team better and have trust in his baseball people to construct a team that can go deep into the playoffs and win it all. He is just happy to contend and thats bullsh!t.
____________________________________________________

I'm not saying Drayton is god or perfect, but he is always blamed for the Astros problems by "not spending enough". However, if one looks at his tenure as Astros owner, they would find he has done what he can to bring a marquee guy in if he feels it helps the club, or has not tried to let good players leave by offer them competitive offers. But somehow that all goes unnoticed, and he becomes the fans scapegoat.

And that's not correct and not fair. As long as houston doesn't have a great local cable station, and baseball insists on being free enterprise, the Astros will max out around 75-80 mil while teams like ATL, CHI, NY can spend 100-120.

So in conclusion, while I think drayton shouldn't be so kind to his players, it surely isn't his fault the Astros haven't won a playoff series even during this run. Is he perfect? No.

But has he made the big deals, key resignings and tried to keep others who left for less money? The answer is Yes.

Funny your comments suggest otherwise on your thoughts of your beloved Drayton McLane. The players he brings do not go unnoticed, but they are drowned out by incessant whining about losing money. If he is willing to trade and get marquee players, then why does that not translate into the offseason? Why doesn't he offer competitive contracts to marquee players? And I can't say I don't blame big-name players for not staying, they can see what type of owner he is by whining all the time.

Bottom line: I think mcClane gets a raw deal from a lot of Astros fans, perfect or not.

How does the saying go... oh yeah, if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen. What Drayton needs to do is sell the team and lick his wounds all the way to the bank.