Lofton and Ramirez to Cubs

[Nick]

Just reported on WGN.

Looks like the Astros get to face these two guys many more times in the near future (starting this weekend).

Lets see... Ramirez is one of the top three Astros' killers of the past 4 years, and Lofton had the highest batting avg. of all leadoff hitters against us this year.

I hope the cubs paid dearly for this (I don't know the details of the trade).

[JPM0016]

they only gave up Jose Hernandez and a couple of minor leaguers. Astros lineup is still a hell of a lot better

[Nick]

Aren't you glad you're not a Pirates fan? Its sickening how they're trading everyone away.

[Nick]

Originally posted by JPM0016
they only gave up Jose Hernandez and a couple of minor leaguers. Astros lineup is still a hell of a lot better

But, the key is, who are those minor leaguers? The Cubs prospects are pretty damn good, and if they're mortaging the future, like we did in 98, I hope they paid dearly... because they're probably not even going to make the playoffs this year, and they're jeopardizing the future in the process.

[JPM0016]

i hear what your saying. My guess is they are middle of the road prospects, no superstar in the making.

[BobFinn*]

Lofton has been rumored to be going to the Cubs for a couple of months. I am at a loss as to why the Bucs would trade Ramirez. The Pittsburgh papers were not too kind to the Pirates this past week, new stadium and a horrible team, they should really have a field day after this trade.

[Nick]

Its hillarious listening to the WGN pundents right now.

They're beaming with optimism... while they're in the middle of a 8-2 thrashing by the Braves. They just even said he should be pretty good defenisvely with Wrigley's "thick grass."

Aramis is probably the worst fielding 3B in baseball right now. And I'm sure he's had a couple of errors in Wrigley before (and I'm sure Chip and Steve pointed out his flaws then).

Plus, they've got one helluva schedule comin out... Houston included.

[JPM0016]

it's really funny... i remember when Kerry Wood beat the Yankees that one saturday. He denied Clemens his 300th win and all the guys on Baseball Tonight were screaming this was the cubs year, raving about how great of a team they had. Bobby Valentine was leading the charge. And now with these moves i'm sure we'll here it again. The bottom line is though

Biggio
Bagwell
Berkman
Ensberg
Kent
Hidalgo

or

Sosa
Alou
Ramirez
Karros
Lofton

The cubs have an edge of starting pitching but their SP's are like are bullpen. They are going to be worn out by september.. all young guys so i'm not worried

[BobFinn*]

Lofton will lead off for the Cubs and is pretty decent at getting on base. Sammy has started to hit lately,but Alou is due for an injury.

I agree Baker has no clue how to use a pitching staff. I would hate for him to ruin the careers of 2 great young pitchers in Wood and Pryor by allowing them to pitch so many innings this year. Anybody remember the 1980 Oakland A's and what Billy Martin did to that staff?

[Groogrux]

I'm just happy that this means they won't get Lowell now.

[JPM0016]

thank god the marlins took Lowell of the market a while back otherwise he probably would be wearing a cubs jersey.

[NIKEstrad]

The Cubs made a good move...they get a guy who can hit at the top of the order and is an improvement over the other Patterson replacements, and a 25 year old run producer from what looks like a low price.

I really hope we can pull off a move for a frontline starter. Robertson has been rock steady, and Roy and Wade are Roy and Wade, but Timmy is frightening every time he gets the ball and I'm still afraid the real Ron Villone will come back. I'll go to war with Roy, Wade, and Jeriome, but we can't have 2 guys going hit or miss like Redding is, and Villone might. It's such a shame Los Hernandez is out...I just hope he doesn't keep going through this. At least we can look forward to a pair of young lefties and a pair of young righties plus Redding or Rosario rounding out the rotation.

Gallo has been great as a lefty stopper, something like 0-11 against him.

Speaking of Pittsburgh, one role type guy I wouldn't mind picking up from them is Craig Wilson- we need a righty pinch hitter, and he's been one of the better ones the last few years.

[Nick]

The prospect the cubs traded was Matt Brubeck... a relatively good RHP with strikeout potential, but he's already 24 and hasn't even sniffed the majors.

And the Pirates have to take on Jose Hernandez as well... if all you guys are disgusted by Drayton, then this must make you vomit.

[JPM0016]

the Pirates are just desperate to drop salary. They lost about 30 million last year and they've got a new ballpark. That's why i laugh when pittsburgh writers bring up trading benson for ensberg. in their dreams.

[BobFinn*]

As expected fans on the Pirates Forums are going nuts:

Unless the player to be named is a stud, this might possibly be the worst trade in the history of the Pirates. Lofton alone should have been enough for the pitcher we got. But you trade away a future all-star third baseman too? This organization is devoid of any power prospects, so we trade away our second best major league homerun hitter??? Ramirez is a guy you build around, not trade away for nothing. It's a joke and an insult to Pirate fans. I have been a Bucco fan all my life, rarely miss a game on TV. But I may not watch another game this season, and I certainly won't be going to PNC Park anytime soon. Dave Littlefield took this move right out of the Bonifay handbook. What a moron.


and

aramis is traded for jose hernandez. okay, we give up rami's errors for a player who had to be benched so he would not set the all-time single season strikeout record. jose is a bum, all the cubs fans out here are mad because they traded bellhorn for hernandez, and now we get hernandez. if the ptbn later is bobby hill, then this deal worse than sucks. i would rather it be juan cruz, and he totally sucks. this IS the worst trade in bucco history. to top it all, the pirates threw in CASH. they must be re-building for 2016. i just want to swallow my gun. i am sorry for ranting, but what a friggin' disaster.

[Uprising]

hehe...those posts from the Bucs board make me smile..

[BALLhog 247 365]

bucs fans r right...

loftons a reliable leadoff man and an all star, and his hitting isnt bad either.

ramirez, granted his defense sucks, but is still a reliable hitter, and most likely going to go back to the form he was in 2 years ago.

hernandez-whiff machine. will hit around 20 home runs, but the BA will be low, like adam dunn whos at .200 but has 25 dingers

the rest two are no namers...plus ramirez and lofton dont have large salaries either

[redgoose]

Didn't Hernandez break the record for most strikeouts in a single season last year? The Pirates got robbed.

Too bad we don't have Julio Lugo, the Pirates would probably take him for Benson. I just don't see who we have to offer them. Everyone either wants Lidge or Ensberg and that's a big no no in my book. Maybe Lane if he's eligible, just because it seems like we'll never get to see him play with Biggio hanging around for eternity.

[kidrock8]

Originally posted by Rocketman95
I'm just happy that this means they won't get Lowell now.

Lowell has historically fallen on his face in the 2nd half of his career, IIRC.

In that case, I wish the Cubs had given up a top prospect for a 2nd half zombie.

[DFW_Rockets_Fan]

Yesterday I almost suggested the Astros trading for Lofton. I never would have guessed they would take so little, or I would have offered Brian Hunter and a ball boy to be named later.

[Beckman]

I live in Pittsburgh, and it is bad. This is a pure salary dump. Ramirez makes 6 million next year. The pirates will trade B. Giles for mediocre prospects if they can throw Kendall's 10mil into the deal. They'll trade Benson for anyone who will take his 4.5 million salary. Mike Williams and Sauerbeck made around 5 million combined.

The worst part about it is that the Bucs aren't getting any good prospects back. This guy Bruback is a middle-of-the road prospect at best. I know you guys might not think highly of Ramirez, but he is on pace for his second 100+RBI season and he is only 25. He was hitting .200 in May, and now is up to .280, with 70 RBI. His defense sucks, but he is a promising young hitter. The pirates deal him for nothing.

In 3 years, no Pirates and no Penguins.

Oh well, GO STEELERS! :cool:

[bobrek]

Originally posted by DFW_Rockets_Fan
Yesterday I almost suggested the Astros trading for Lofton. I never would have guessed they would take so little, or I would have offered Brian Hunter and a ball boy to be named later.

There was no reason for the Astros to pick up Lofton. They will not sit Biggio. Lofton's is fast but is not a good defesnsive outfielder anymore. Biggio's OBP is a bit better than Lofton's while his slugging is a bit lower.

[Nick]

Originally posted by Beckman
In 3 years, no Pirates and no Penguins.

Oh well, GO STEELERS! :cool:

Is there any better example of why the NFL is the best league, in terms of both watchability and financial stability?

Its most evident when teams in the SAME city can't be competitive, but the NFL counterpart is a perrenial Superbowl contender. (Also see Tampa Bay, Milwaukee/Green Bay, San Diego)

Hey... their system is basically socialism, but it works... in SPORTS ONLY.

[MadMax]

the more significant story in the NL Central is the Card's loss of Matt Morris.

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally posted by MadMax
the more significant story in the NL Central is the Card's loss of Matt Morris.
Exactly. I'm not worried about the Cubs at all, after all they *are* the Cubs, but the Co-ards scare the hell outta me, especially if they make a deal or 2 for pitching.

[DFW_Rockets_Fan]

Originally posted by bobrek
There was no reason for the Astros to pick up Lofton. They will not sit Biggio. Lofton's is fast but is not a good defesnsive outfielder anymore. Biggio's OBP is a bit better than Lofton's while his slugging is a bit lower.

I agree. When I first looked at it, I was thinking some sort of righty/lefty platoon. Once I looked at the numbers, they both bat better against right handers. No need, but I am still suprised how little the Cubs gave up.

[bobrek]

Originally posted by DFW_Rockets_Fan
I agree. When I first looked at it, I was thinking some sort of righty/lefty platoon. Once I looked at the numbers, they both bat better against right handers. No need, but I am still suprised how little the Cubs gave up.

I agree, unless the player to be named later is a monster prospect, the Cubs gave up next to nothing for two starters.

[land_sharks]

Originally posted by Buck Turgidson
Exactly. I'm not worried about the Cubs at all, after all they *are* the Cubs,

Don't worry this year, but this deal has a swing of power potential (down the road) to it. With A-RAM, Patterson, Prior, Wood...that's a strong young nucleus. They have stud prospects too.

I'm not worried about them this year, but man, they just landed a .300, 30, 100+, 25 year-old corner man for virtually nothing. Our nucleus is strong as well, but it just blows my mind that A-Ram could be had for middle-of-the-roaders.

[eric.81]

Originally posted by BobFinn*
As expected fans on the Pirates Forums are going nuts:

Unless the player to be named is a stud, this might possibly be the worst trade in the history of the Pirates. Lofton alone should have been enough for the pitcher we got. But you trade away a future all-star third baseman too? This organization is devoid of any power prospects, so we trade away our second best major league homerun hitter??? Ramirez is a guy you build around, not trade away for nothing. It's a joke and an insult to Pirate fans. I have been a Bucco fan all my life, rarely miss a game on TV. But I may not watch another game this season, and I certainly won't be going to PNC Park anytime soon. Dave Littlefield took this move right out of the Bonifay handbook. What a moron.


and

aramis is traded for jose hernandez. okay, we give up rami's errors for a player who had to be benched so he would not set the all-time single season strikeout record. jose is a bum, all the cubs fans out here are mad because they traded bellhorn for hernandez, and now we get hernandez. if the ptbn later is bobby hill, then this deal worse than sucks. i would rather it be juan cruz, and he totally sucks. this IS the worst trade in bucco history. to top it all, the pirates threw in CASH. they must be re-building for 2016. i just want to swallow my gun. i am sorry for ranting, but what a friggin' disaster.


Poor guys!! As much as we all bitch about the Rox/'Stros it's so nice to have those two organizations instead of the pirates and those like it.

p.s. I didn't mention the Texans because it's obvious they're one of the top organizations in Pro Sports right now... first class all the way.

[Puedlfor]

wow, that Cubs team is going to be horrible defensively. And by that I mean they're going to have an epically bad defense.

Maybe the worst defensive outfield of all time. Worst defensive third baseman in the league. Absolutely horrid.

also, Engsberg is better than Aramis.