stro trade rumors

[steefrancis]

hey dont know how much reliability my source is but i recently heard that the astros might be trading brad lidge to the yankees for jeff weaver. did anyone else hear the same rumor? dont blast me for this just somethign i am passing on to yall and curious to see what the stros will be doing to improve there lackluster pitching.

[robbie380]

wow...where did you hear that? doesn't weaver have a big contract? if it's true it would be an amazing deal for the astros. i think weaver would get back to his old self if he left NY and all the pressure that I think he is putting himself under.

[Mr. Clutch]

That would be crazy. For Lidge, as cheap as he is with all that potential, we should get someone much better.

[lost_elephant]

weavers had 1 good year in his career. hes had a couple other solid years, but 1 good year.we dont want this guy id be much more apt to trade wags, but itd have to be for a sure thing. mclane will probably go after a sure thing in his last year -randy johnson type move? we have both lidge and dotel who could be our closer of the future. and wags has that huge contract.....

[Groogrux]

Horrible trade.

[mfclark]

Good starters are worth more than great middle relievers, especially when said team with the middle reliever already has the best one in baseball. Weaver is a good bet to improve outside of New York.

However, it's not a good deal for Houston. Weaver's mechanics are a constant cause for concern, and Houston hasn't had much trouble finding starting pitching talent in it's own system. It may take another year or two, but it's there. No reason to trade Lidge.

[Nick]

Originally posted by Rocketman95
Horrible trade.

At first, I said the same exact thing

However... when you factor in:
1. Lidge's history of arm trouble. (I have too many flashbacks of Elarton as a lights out middle reliever in 98, only to end up with a horrible career)
2. The more time he spends in the league, the more likely hitters will be able to figure more out about him.
3. Weaver is the same exact age as Lidge (26)... although Brad is a rookie this year. (same amount of "upside" left... if not more)

The only thing that would prevent this deal from happening, from the Astros standpoint, is the $$ situation... as Lidge will be playing for little money the next 3-4 years, and Weaver will stand to get decent to big $$.

However... if the Yankees agree to take some of that contract, ala the Mike Hampton trade, this trade should be done.

My parting shot.... remember the guy Jeff Bagwell was traded for? Larry Anderson... who was a lights out middle reliever.

[Puedlfor]

Lidge's arm problems seemed to stem from the worload as a starter, hence his conversion to a reliever.

I like Weaver's talent, but his contract isn't something we want to take on, expecially considering he question marks concerning his mechanics and his head.

[DVauthrin]

No.

No.

No.

Jeff Weaver will make 6.25 mil next year and 9.25 mil the following year, and is majorly inconsistent.

I'm not parting with a dominant young closer in the making for this guy unless NY paid all of his salary.

Not part but all.

Nick,

Jeff Weaver is not even remotely similar to jeff bagwell.

And it's not like the Yankees would be renting lidge.

Either pay less for Weaver or go after somebody else who costs less in salary and players, unless there is a special deal for the taking.

[MadMax]

the astros are going to be looking to dump salary at the end of the season...no way they take on a salary like this for a relief pitcher, their strongest position on the field right now.

[Baqui99]

Lidge will be a starter next year. Just like Oswalt, Elarton, Redding, etc. all began their pro careers in the pen. Jeff Weaver is a bum.

[PhiSlammaJamma]

I'd rather have Lidge, but if we can get weaver for something else why not.

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally posted by Baqui99
Lidge will be a starter next year.
To the best of my knowledge, not a single person in the 'Stros organization has made anything even remotely resembling this statement so far this year.

Lidge is being groomed as a setup man/closer & insurance in the event that Dotel or Wagner need to be moved.

[Drewdog]

I dont know enough about Weaver, but after checking out his stats and noticing how much he gets paid by DV, Id have to agree with our panel and say no.

We need starting pitching but at what cost. There are other bargains out there.

Jeff Suppan anyone?

[Nick]

Originally posted by DVauthrin
Jeff Weaver is not even remotely similar to jeff bagwell.



I was actually more reffering to Lidge being like Larry Anderson... a guy who was a dominant relief man, but is virtually forgotten in the grand history of the Astros', and MLB history (pointing out the fact that relief pitchers, even if they're lights out, aren't the ones who win you championships).

Once again, you wouldn't do this deal because of the $$... but not because of the issue of talent.

Also, stop referring to Lidge as the "young arm"... he's the same age as Weaver.

Weaver has a long career as a starter ahead of him... Lidge WILL NOT be starting any time soon. If he does, just expect him to go the way of Elarton (and nobody even knew he had arm trouble... EVERYBODY knows Lidge does).

Also, again, I stress... I believe if we do make a trade like this, that the other team will be taking on much of the player's salaries. Notice the trades b/t the White Sox and Rangers and Mets... both the latter teams ended up paying those guys' salaries, in order to get the prospects in return.

The Astros would be looking for similar deals. (which would open up the possibility of acquiring Weaver, Benson, J. Vasquez, etc.)

[Mr. Clutch]

Nick makes a good point. If the Yankees agree to pay a bunch of Weaver's salary, then this trade starts to make sense. We definitely need another starter badly. And Weaver has plenty of potential.

In 2001, he had a 4.08 ERA, with a 1.32 WHIP. He threw 229 innings and had 152 k's.

In 2002, he had a 3.18 ERA for the Tigers and a 4.04 ERA for the Yankees. His WHIP was about 1.20.

He has struggled this year. But if he gets consistent starts he may get back in his groove.

[LAfadeaway33]

I say we try to deal Wagner because he's got great trade value being one of the top closers in the majors and he's also got a huge contract that's keeping us from making other moves. We could get some very decent talent in return and we've got two other players capeable of closing in Dotel and Lidge. Dotel will also be up for a new contract at the end of the season and I don't see us giving him what he wants if we keep Wagner.

[NIKEstrad]

Originally posted by MadMax
the astros are going to be looking to dump salary at the end of the season...no way they take on a salary like this for a relief pitcher, their strongest position on the field right now.

I would suspect the Yankees would pay all of Weaver's contract if a deal like this went down.

Here's just something to think about...who's spot in the rotation does Weaver take? I would say Redding- perhaps Redding could make a Dotel-like conversion to reliever?

If that's the case, is the gap between Weaver as a starter vs. Redding as a starter bigger than Lidge as a reliever vs. Redding as a reliever? I think that all depends on which Weaver you get.
Oswalt-Miller-Weaver is a fine "big three" Robertson is pitching spectacularly for a #4, and then Villone gets the 5 slot, perhaps Rosario if he faulters?

The biggest faults of this are-
a.) Weaver's contract for next year.
b.) Moving Lidge means keeping Wags and Dotel is a MUST, at all $ costs.
Talent wise, it's a move I'd make. I think any pen that ends in Dotel-Wagner will be strong, and guys like Saarloos and Stone have been very good in front of them, plus I like the potential of Redding there. Gallo has been good so far, and Venafro (in AAA now) was a downright nasty setup man a couple years ago from the left side.

It's a very costly move in terms of money, IMO. This adds 9M in payroll in Weaver alone next year, plus necessitates resigning both Wagner and Dotel (unless of course Redding is as lights out as Lidge has been). That could be nearly a 20M payroll addition, which I doubt Drayton would be willing to pull off.

[adrian]

A guy mentioned that trade to the guys on 610 yesterday. It's not a rumor or anything, it was just something that he had thought of, kinda like all the trades people propose in the GARM.

AC

[d-chi10]

How about Lidge for Ponson? Thats tasty.

[Nick]

Believe me... if the Astros weren't in contention right now (and its only because of this terrible terrible division, where they're currently 1/2 a game out of 1st), Billy Wagner would be on everybody's list as trade bait.

The 'Stros don't want to mess with their closer situation while they're in the thick of things. As for next year, however, they'll be likely to move Billy in the off-season, and go into the year with Dotel as the full-time closer (this obviously is a better situation then having to switch in the middle of the year).

NIKEstrad makes an awesome point of the difference b/t Lidge and Redding as relievers, and Weaver and Redding as starters.

Think about it... last year, in Lidge's starts... his fastball topped out at 92-93. Why? Because, as a starter, you can't throw all your stuff all the time... you've got to conserve for 5-6 innings of work. I believe Redding shows a lot of similiarties to Dotel and Lidge when they were starters... you know he's got great stuff, but he doesn't have that mental edge to conserve himself for 5-6 innings of solid work (as unhittable as Dotel is right now, he would still look average as a starter).

Thus, putting Redding in the pen, where he can throw all-out for one inning, may be the best solution for him as a major leaguer. He can probably throw his fastball around 97, and he does possess a decent enough curve to keep hitters off-balance.

If there is any truth to this rumor, getting Weaver is really starting to look like a steal (that is, only if they pay is $$)

[steefrancis]

supposedly the yankees will take up the rest of weavers contract this year and half his salary the next year...sorry forgot to mention that in the opening thread

but it would be an interesting trade though.. lidge has problems with his arm before. trading him now while his value is high doesnt seem like a bad idea for the long run

[Raven Lunatic]

I wouldn't want to do this trade, but I it actually sounds realistic to me. This is the reason you haven't heard a whole lot of rumors about any trades for starting pitching right now. Any team that wants it will have to give up an arm and a leg. It's a sellers' market.

[mateo]

Scarily enough, I am happy with Villone right now. 5 solid starts in a row, and he's cheap.

Lets get Kent back...for the Astros' sake, and my FBB team.

[Baseballa]

From Peter Gammons' Diamond Notes....


Shock? Astros owner Drayton McLane on Saturday told Gerry Hunsicker that he will free up some money to trade for a starter. Now Hunsicker has to find someone in the thin market.

Diamond Notes (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=1580116)

[BSW]

I would rather take my chances on Lidge. He is doing a great job in his first full year and does not seem to be having any health problems.

[kevwun]

Lidge did not suffer from lacking the "mental edge" nor did Dotel. Until his arm troubles caused by an absolutely wicked curve ball, he was the best pitching prospect in the Astros' farm system. His move to reliever was because of said arm trouble and had nothing to do with his ability. Dotel, oth, has only 2 effective pitches and when he started he couldn't throw as hard as he does as a reliever. The second time he would go through the opposing teams' lineup they would start hitting him. That's why he is in the pen.

As for the trade, I don't think it's a good idea to trade for a guy who is pitching badly for another contender. The Astros don't need a starter who can't handle pressure.