ClutchCity.net Game Thread: Rockets @ Sonics 3/18/2003

[dn1282]

Originally posted by walterw
I don't blame any Rox player for the loss, but I am really disappointed with Mr. Mean. He failed in many aspects of the game: substitution, offense execution in the fouth quarter
and stupid three-guard lineup. I thought He might be better than
Rudy. But one thing I do know he has the gut to bench Yao during the crunch time.
Yep....WTF was going on with the 3 guard lineup? The sonics had ray allen as their point and rashard lewis as their SG. Nice logic there Mr. Mean. Rashard was raping mobley on the post up...so yao comes and helps and then he gets dunked on by jerome james...so take yao out. Man Larry Smith, you make Rudy look like a genius.

Maybe that was the plan? Did rudy tell you to make him look like a genius compared to yourself tonight? Hmmm????

[vcchlw]

I'm pretty sure Larry Smith accepted bribe from the Suns!!! :mad:

Steve showed he can be a PG tonight, Mobley thought he was MJ but he never realized it's not even close. Yao Ming just couldn't get the ball...

[carayip]

"They didn't have a post-up game," Radmanovic said. "Yao was out of the game, and Steve Francis and Cuttino Mobley tried to penetrate and pass, but our defense was good enough to prevent that."

Larry Smith's crap game plan! :mad:

[littlest]

A Sonic saying the Rox have no post-up game? Obviously doesn't get to watch his own team much.

[dn1282]

Originally posted by littlest
A Sonic saying the Rox have no post-up game? Obviously doesn't get to watch his own team much.
i think he was referring to the game from last night...and he's right. We had JACK down low.

[rfrocket]

Originally posted by got-milk!
Yao had 8PT and 7RB by the end of the 3rd, it looked like another doub-doub night for the rookie, but I don't understand how he only played 2 minutes in the 4th. It would seem that somebody was making the wrong decisions

Yao came out at the end of the 3rd quarter, as is the usual pattern. In the 4th, he came back in with around 5-6 minutes left in the game. Within about 2 minutes, the lead ballooned to 14, that's when he(coach) took Yao back out.

To me it seemed obvious that he was kinda throwing in the towel, and trying to rest Yao in what he considered a lost game. I think we have another game tomorrow(Por). To me it seemed a little early, because a 14 point lead with 4 minutes left is not a sure thing. But Cato played very well(imo). I don't think he(coach Smith) made a bad decision, but maybe an early one.

And the reason Yao did not get a lot of shots off was not because of non-involvement by his teamates.

The reason is because they were doubling Yao IMMEDIATELYafter recieving the ball, and hard. All night long. He had no chance to drive in.

The thing that made it hard is that they were doubling off of Posey, at the top of the key, instead of the closest defender to him. This forced us(Yao) to throw out to Posey instead of swinging it around the perimeter, like we usually do. Since Posey was/could not hit the outside j tonight, this was extremely effective.

What I would like to see the Rockets get is a 3, or 4 that can drive the ball to the hole and score/draw fouls. That's the way to make that kind of defense pay, not swinging it to Posey for a 3-pointer. Mo T, and Eggie are perimeter players, not the drive in, and dunk kind that we need.

[montgo]

Bottomline: analyze this the way you want and your observation of the kick out to Posey is right on btw...but the other thing that stands out even more is 18 assists and 21 turnovers....this stat equals is an immediate and definite loss 99% of the time!


you have to protect the ball,especially on the road and while Steve had a great assist game, no one else did.....

Other game points:

1. I thought our defensive intensity stunk tonight

2. not enough ball movement and not enough Glen Rice!

3. Ming's major issue right now is not being able to recognize the double and triple team quick enough and holding the ball way to long. I watched him hold the ball for an average of 5-7 seconds on numerous occassions before either passing it or turning it over...and the passes were questionable....

bad play tonight....but to be expected every so often.....

[carayip]

Originally posted by rfrocket
The reason is because they were doubling Yao IMMEDIATELYafter recieving the ball, and hard. All night long. He had no chance to drive in.

The thing that made it hard is that they were doubling off of Posey, at the top of the key, instead of the closest defender to him. This forced us(Yao) to throw out to Posey instead of swinging it around the perimeter, like we usually do. Since Posey was/could not hit the outside j tonight, this was extremely effective.

Then how could you justify James "I can't shoot" Posey playing 39 mins (shooting 4/10) while Glen "hottest shooter on the team" Rice playing only 13 mins (shooting 2/4)?

[montgo]

absolutely unbelievable that Rice played only 13....of that probably 5 were at the end of the game, so we basically got minimal minutes and that was not good....

[mad4snk]

Originally posted by lancet
We badly need Rudy T in the western road trip! Rockets laid an ugly egg tonight. It is a totally different team with Larry Smith! Rudy T, get well!


This was the poorest coached game I have ever seen, even with all the talent the rockets have, they were still in the game till the end. However, stupid and key turnovers and the line-up in the last 4 to 5 mintues with Ming out, really hurt. I bet Rudy was killing some Tvs and his liver and home ;) But on a serious note I wish the best for Rudy and wish him a speady recovery, we have enough problems with a team going through learning pains to learn how to play together the last thing we need is a coach who is just learning to, I wish CD would come out of the front office and coach.

[anitasri]

This was game we could have won comfortably. Calvin Murphy could not help but point out that Kevin ollie was left right under the basket unguarded atleast 4 times.

Not getting Rice involved for a longer period almost smacks of conspiracy- just watch any Suns game and see what passion is all about!

It is time we reconsidered the minutes that we are automatically alloting- without understanding the importance of each win.

I would rather be headed to the lottery than be in the playoffs if this is the attitude. As someone said Guards dont win in play offs, when will we ever drill that fact in?

[Tango]

rfrocket and montgo are right regarding the double and triple teams on Yao. They effectively shut Yao, and even MoT down on the low block. The Sonics gameplan was to deny us our inside game and make us try to beat them from the outside. That worked in their favor. It reminded me very much of the way the Sonics used to have our number back in the Hakeem days and the swarming interior defense was intense. We didn't have an answer for it then until we go Charles Barkley.

[Tango]

Ooops, meant to continue writing.

On the offensive end I don't think there was much our players could have done better except try to limit the number of turnovers we had short of coming up with new plays to defeat the interior defense. The sonics gave us the outside shots and we couldn't drain them.

On the defensive end we definitely got burnt. Was it a question of intensity? I think the players definitely bear more the responsibility here. Leaving Ollie open like that was terrible.

[Easy]

Not using Rice more when the Sonics defense swarmed the inside was a mistake.

But you guys get off Larry Smith's back. This was the first time in a long while he got to do on-court decision-making. There are millions of things you need to consider and make quick decisions. It's not as easy as you think.

Oh, the same goes for those who bashed Rudy's on-court decision-making in the past too.

[maldini]

Originally posted by rfrocket
Yao came out at the end of the 3rd quarter, as is the usual pattern. In the 4th, he came back in with around 5-6 minutes left in the game. Within about 2 minutes, the lead ballooned to 14, that's when he(coach) took Yao back out.

To me it seemed obvious that he was kinda throwing in the towel, and trying to rest Yao in what he considered a lost game. I think we have another game tomorrow(Por). To me it seemed a little early, because a 14 point lead with 4 minutes left is not a sure thing. But Cato played very well(imo). I don't think he(coach Smith) made a bad decision, but maybe an early one.

And the reason Yao did not get a lot of shots off was not because of non-involvement by his teamates.

The reason is because they were doubling Yao IMMEDIATELYafter recieving the ball, and hard. All night long. He had no chance to drive in.

The thing that made it hard is that they were doubling off of Posey, at the top of the key, instead of the closest defender to him. This forced us(Yao) to throw out to Posey instead of swinging it around the perimeter, like we usually do. Since Posey was/could not hit the outside j tonight, this was extremely effective.

What I would like to see the Rockets get is a 3, or 4 that can drive the ball to the hole and score/draw fouls. That's the way to make that kind of defense pay, not swinging it to Posey for a 3-pointer. Mo T, and Eggie are perimeter players, not the drive in, and dunk kind that we need.


Yao Ming and Glen Rice were put back in the 4th with only less than 5 minutes left, and they played till the end, unlike what you said. Yao was not taken back out.
The assistant coaches were so dumb not to put Yao and Rice back in sooner.

[ragingFire]

Originally posted by maldini
Yao Ming and Glen Rice were put back in the 4th with only less than 5 minutes left, and they played till the end, unlike what you said. Yao was not taken back out.
The assistant coaches were so dumb not to put Yao and Rice back in sooner.

Check this:
http://scores.nba.com/games/20030318/HOUSEA/PlayByPlayPrint.html
4th qtr:
(4:58) [HOU] Cato Substitution replaced by Ming
(2:53) [HOU] Ming Substitution replaced by Cato

[feishen]

A bad loss in the first game of a tough road trip. I thought Seattle was the team that we could beat at their court. We didnt capatalize when they were mis-firing in the first half. They had a couple streches in the 3rd and 4th outscored us by several baskets, and that was the difference. It is always difficult to come back from behind on the road. Larry Smith was not the sole reason that Rox lost night, although I didnt like his play calling in the 4th. Had Cato grab that defensive rebound when there was 1 min left and we were 6pts behind, the results would have been different. Instead we gave up a 3 on that play, so the bad luck was part of the loss too. Larry Smith took a gamble by going small to match Seatlle's quickness, we lost. I think we need to stick to Rudy's game plan by going big inside. To try not to overload Yao is one thing, and To not run offense through Yao is another. We gotta find a way to pass out the double team trap on Yao. We simply gave up last night on Yao. That was not a way to go.

[Trickdaddy1319]

Originally posted by littlest
A Sonic saying the Rox have no post-up game? Obviously doesn't get to watch his own team much.

he was talking about what happened THAT game. The difference is, the sonics don't have a post-up game and never claimed to have one. The rockets claim to have the 2nd best center in the league--and he is--but played/coached the sonics game like they didn't have a 4th quarter clutch all-star center on their roster.

very stupid coaching decisions from mr "substitutions won't change" mean.

[Trickdaddy1319]

Originally posted by rfrocket


To me it seemed obvious that he was kinda throwing in the towel, and trying to rest Yao in what he considered a lost game. I think we have another game tomorrow(Por). To me it seemed a little early, because a 14 point lead with 4 minutes left is not a sure thing. But Cato played very well(imo). I don't think he(coach Smith) made a bad decision, but maybe an early one.



If he was throwing in the towel early with 3 minutes left to go in the game, then he didn't need to attempt to "coach" the rockets. 3 minutes is still a lot of time, with the right substitutions and plays, we could have caught up better or tied the game. With less than a minute Rice got us within 4 and using your reasoning, are we to believe that Mr. Mean felt sheepish for losing faith in his team so early? Makes you feel like crap when you give up on your team and then they end up ralling from double digits all the way down to 4 before time runs out and you have to put the other team at the line.

pathetic excuse for an assistant coach.

[Trickdaddy1319]

Originally posted by maldini
Yao Ming and Glen Rice were put back in the 4th with only less than 5 minutes left, and they played till the end, unlike what you said. Yao was not taken back out.
The assistant coaches were so dumb not to put Yao and Rice back in sooner.

Obviously you did not watch the game. Yao was put in at the 4:58 mark in the 4th quarter. He was taken out at the 2:53 mark. Rice came in at the same time as yao and played till the end. So without counting the last 5 minutes of the futile catchup attempt, Rice played 8 minutes combined in the previous 3 quarters. That's not even enough time to warm up.

[rfrocket]

Trickdaddy1319,

I don't pretend to know what Mr. Mean was thinking, or how he felt afterwards. After rereading my post, I would probably remove the word obvious. But it did seem like that to me. Why else would you take out one of your top 2 players at the end of the game unless you thought it(game) was out of reach? Unless he thought the team was playing better with Cato that night.

It seems to me that they are trying to keep Yao Ming's minutes down as much as possible. Maybe they are worried about him being exhausted at the end of the season. I don't know for sure. That could explain the reason for the ultra-quick hook.

One thing I have noticed is that a lot of times there will be a timeout called with about 7 minutes(or 6 1/2) to go in either the 2nd, or 4th quarters. When play is resumed Yao does not come back into the game, but after about 30-45 seconds of play he'll make his way to the scorers table, and re-enter next dead ball. I think this is kind of amusing. If he's going to come back in about 30 seconds anyway, why not just send him in when you come back from the timeout? It's like...Well, there's 6min.3sec. left on the clock, should we put Y.M. back in yet? (Coach)Nope, he doesn't come back in until it's under 6 minutes. You may think I'm exaggerating, but I've seen him come back 10-20 sec. after a timeout several times this year. To me, that's kinda funny, but I guess the coaches have a better read on his stamina than we fans, so I'm not going to criticise them.

[ragingFire]

Originally posted by rfrocket
Trickdaddy1319,

Why else would you take out one of your top 2 players at the end of the game unless you thought it(game) was out of reach? Unless he thought the team was playing better with Cato that night.

I think he wanted a quick line-up to deal with Seattle's outside threat.


One thing I have noticed is that a lot of times there will be a timeout called with about 7 minutes(or 6 1/2) to go in either the 2nd, or 4th quarters. When play is resumed Yao does not come back into the game, but after about 30-45 seconds of play he'll make his way to the scorers table, and re-enter next dead ball. I think this is kind of amusing. If he's going to come back in about 30 seconds anyway, why not just send him in when you come back from the timeout? It's like...Well, there's 6min.3sec. left on the clock, should we put Y.M. back in yet? (Coach)Nope, he doesn't come back in until it's under 6 minutes. You may think I'm exaggerating, but I've seen him come back 10-20 sec. after a timeout several times this year. To me, that's kinda funny, but I guess the coaches have a better read on his stamina than we fans, so I'm not going to criticise them.
Most of the time, you call time-out because something goes wrong and you need to correct a mistake ... A lot of coaches do not want to do the substitution at the same time because it makes it look like you are taking a guy out because he is the one who made a mistake.

[rfrocket]

Originally posted by ragingFire
Most of the time, you call time-out because something goes wrong and you need to correct a mistake ... A lot of coaches do not want to do the substitution at the same time because it makes it look like you are taking a guy out because he is the one who made a mistake.

Point taken, but I've seen it with other team's, and mandatory timeouts too.

[blacksteel69]

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