'Stros offseason plans??

[eric.81]

What direction do you all think the Astros should go in this offseason?

Obvious problems last season:
1) Less than 30 home runs from our corner outfield positions.
2) A pitching rotation that was never completely healthy after the first month of the season.
3) Virtually no team speed to speak of (other than Lugo and Hunter, niether of whom played more than 96 games).
4) Defensively, we probably could have been better with a true center fielder, but I personally think Berkman was adequate.

Since the Astros officially fell out of contention, I have heard two rumors (not an "inside" source, this is somewhat speculative) involving the Astros aquiring either Mike Hampton or Roger Clemens. Now, both these guys make a lot of money and aren't exactly young (Clemens especially).

Would we be better served trotting out a rotation of green 20-somethings and spending some money on some outfield defense, speed, and pop?

My personal wish list includes aquiring a true centerfielder/leadoff hitter (I understand this is a pretty tall order... how 'bout Carl Crawford?) and possibly a power bat for the outfield. Although it would be nice meeting the Atlanta Braves in the first round of the playoffs next year and trotting out a three man rotation of Oswalt, Miller, and Hampton... yikes!

I'd love to hear some feedback... peace out!

[Major]

I still think a true centerfielder is the ideal addition -- although it's also probably the hardest to find. That solves your #1, #3, and #4 problems.

[rezdawg]

Our offseason plan:

1) Do not sign any free agent that makes 4+ million dollars/year
2) Sign a Blum/Merced kinda player
3) Blame the little offseason movement on the fact that the pieces are already in place for a championship
4) Watch all of our division rivals improve

This is how its been lately, so I dont see any reason for it to change.

[Cold Hard]

- A fast and "true" centerfielder who's got a good glove and can hit leadoff with a good OBP would definitely be nice, although getting such a player probably won't be easy. Berkman has done a great job at CF, making some spectacular catches, but still I'd prefer him playing LF or RF.

- I wouldn't mind the Astros going after a good veteran starting pitcher...a solid #3 or #4 starter. I'd definitely want Hampton back, but he makes an awful lot of money...too much.

- Improve the middle relief.

- Keep Loretta, I like this guy.

- Try to get rid of both Hidalgo and Ward. I am sick and tired of both of them. If it comes down to only dumping one, then get rid of Hidalgo. I'm starting to wonder if his 44-homer season was a fluke, and he showcased his "real" self in all of his other seasons. His glove work has consistently been solid, but that's not good enough for me to want the Astros to keep him.

- Better protection behind Bagwell (i.e. a #5 hitter with power and solid RBI-producing ability). Preferably a 3rd baseman. Blum has played well, but I don't know if he's the long term answer at 3B.

- Bagwell needs to get that shoulder healthy this offseason...

[Refman]

Moves I'd like to see the Astros make:

1) Resign Loretta.
2) Make offer to Jeff Kent...but nothing nutty.
3) Trade Hidalgo to Colorado for Hampton.
4) Trade Ward to Tampa for Randy Winn.

3 and 4 are assuming the other club is willing to make the deal...and the speculation is that they would be.

[FLAGRANT1]

not many notable free agents this year but I would take a long hard look @ signing Jose Hernandez(brewers) , yes that Jose Hernandez. Strikeouts aside (all of them) he had the best numbers @ short this season in the NL. Unless Boston is really shopping Nomar this offseason, seems like a good acquisition.

[eric.81]

Originally posted by Refman
Moves I'd like to see the Astros make:

1) Resign Loretta.
2) Make offer to Jeff Kent...but nothing nutty.
3) Trade Hidalgo to Colorado for Hampton.
4) Trade Ward to Tampa for Randy Winn.

3 and 4 are assuming the other club is willing to make the deal...and the speculation is that they would be.

Refman... I like your scenario better than any I've heard. The only thing I don't see happening is Colorado trading Hampton without getting a young pitcher in return. I hope I'm wrong though.

Assuming all these things happen, who plays LF? I know we'll have Winn in center, Berkman in right. Do we put Jason Lane in left? Orlando Merced? Free agent?

(I'd be happy with Merced... lefty, clutch hitter, can he do it all season?)

[Refman]

Originally posted by eric.81
Refman... I like your scenario better than any I've heard. The only thing I don't see happening is Colorado trading Hampton without getting a young pitcher in return. I hope I'm wrong though.

Assuming all these things happen, who plays LF? I know we'll have Winn in center, Berkman in right. Do we put Jason Lane in left? Orlando Merced? Free agent?

(I'd be happy with Merced... lefty, clutch hitter, can he do it all season?)
My understanding is that Colorado's GM would give his left testicle to get out of Hampy's contract right now (if we resign Loretta, we could throw in Lugo). I would think that getting the Colorado trade done would be the easiest part of my plan. I could be misinformed though

If all fell into place my OF would be:
LF: Berkman
CF: Winn
RF: Lane

Rotation:
Miller
Oswalt
Hampton
Saarloos
Hernandez / Munro

[eric.81]

Originally posted by Refman
If all fell into place my OF would be:
LF: Berkman
CF: Winn
RF: Lane

Rotation:
Miller
Oswalt
Hampton
Saarloos
Hernandez / Munro

That, plus a healthy Bagwell, and no injuries to our pitching staff should be enough to stay competative with St. Louis.

I want to keep Lugo, though... I love his speed and he made great strides in his defense this year.

[ROXRAN]

I heard Roger Clemens name tossed on the radio since he gets 10 million from the Yanks whether he plays for them or not...If Clemens is willing to sign reasonably at 3 million or so, he gets to end his career at home, be closer to his "K" kids, and fulfill his secret desire to play here...

He'd be behind Oswalt, Miller and I would go for this...

[kidrock8]

Originally posted by ROXRAN
I heard Roger Clemens name tossed on the radio since he gets 10 million from the Yanks whether he plays for them or not...If Clemens is willing to sign reasonably at 3 million or so, he gets to end his career at home, be closer to his "K" kids, and fulfill his secret desire to play here...

He'd be behind Oswalt, Miller and I would go for this...

3 mill? Ha. Clemens will be offered at least 7-10 mill from the Yanks. I know that penny-pinching Drayton will offer Clemens a 1-year 1 mill contract though.

THere is no way Clemens would sign for 3 mill, unless the George suddenly went cheap. Even then, there are probably 10 other teams who would offer Clemens at least 5 mill.

[kidrock8]

This year's offseason plans.

1. Slash payroll
2. Slash payroll
3. Slash payroll
4. Slash payroll

[Raven Lunatic]

It just wouldn't be an Astros thread without kidrock finding some way to turn it into a Drayton McClane bashing thread. Thank you for contribution, kidrock.

[Refman]

Originally posted by eric.81
That, plus a healthy Bagwell, and no injuries to our pitching staff should be enough to stay competative with St. Louis.

I want to keep Lugo, though... I love his speed and he made great strides in his defense this year.
Not going to happen. If the Astros resign Loretta (and it looks like it'll happen), either Lugo or Blum has to go. The most likely candidate would be Lugo.

[Refman]

Originally posted by kidrock8
3 mill? Ha. Clemens will be offered at least 7-10 mill from the Yanks. I know that penny-pinching Drayton will offer Clemens a 1-year 1 mill contract though.

THere is no way Clemens would sign for 3 mill, unless the George suddenly went cheap. Even then, there are probably 10 other teams who would offer Clemens at least 5 mill.
You really think so? HA!!!! Clemens is DONE...everybody (including the Yankees) knows this. Any team that would offer him $7M at this stage of his career needs a new GM and FAST!!!

Oh and thanks for the Drayton bashing. Good to see some things never change. (yawn)

[swt939]

in regards to Clemens, i've heard that he in no way is coming to houston b/c he's still pissed at the way Astro's management treated him a few years back......

so ix-nay that idea.

[rezdawg]

I like the idea of getting Randy Winn. I was a big fan of getting him during the trade deadline and my opinion of him has not changed.

His final stats for the year:

.298 BA
14 HR
75 RBI (Pretty damn good for a leadoff hitter on T.B.)
27 SB (Something we seriously lacked this year)

[Refman]

Originally posted by rezdawg
I like the idea of getting Randy Winn. I was a big fan of getting him during the trade deadline and my opinion of him has not changed.

His final stats for the year:

.298 BA
14 HR
75 RBI (Pretty damn good for a leadoff hitter on T.B.)
27 SB (Something we seriously lacked this year)
Agreed...completely. Maybe we can get him for Fat Ward.

[Summer Song Giver]

Start rebuiding now, otherwise it will get alot worse before it gets any better. This team should have been rebuilt 3 or 4 years ago that way we'd have gone into the new ballpark with a young dynamic team and now we'd have some young players to go with Berkman and the young pitchers. Biggio and Bagwell are crap.

[bobrek]

Originally posted by kidrock8
3 mill? Ha. Clemens will be offered at least 7-10 mill from the Yanks. I know that penny-pinching Drayton will offer Clemens a 1-year 1 mill contract though.

THere is no way Clemens would sign for 3 mill, unless the George suddenly went cheap. Even then, there are probably 10 other teams who would offer Clemens at least 5 mill.

Clemens gets 10 million dollars from the Yankees AND can become a free agent without giving up any of that money, therefore he is already starting out with 10 million. If he signs with any team for 3 million (as an example), he is effectively making 13 million for 2003.

[Buck Turgidson]

Mr. Summer Song Giver, what you've just posted is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[dc sports]

Originally posted by Refman
Moves I'd like to see the Astros make:

1) Resign Loretta.
2) Make offer to Jeff Kent...but nothing nutty.
3) Trade Hidalgo to Colorado for Hampton.
4) Trade Ward to Tampa for Randy Winn.

3 and 4 are assuming the other club is willing to make the deal...and the speculation is that they would be.

Good thoughts.

As much as I'd love to see a Miller-Oswalt-Hampton rotation, that's too many dollars in one basket for potentially your #3 starter.

If you sign Loretta, you don't sign Kent. Loretta would be our third baseman, possibly rotating some to other positions to give Blum some playing time. That's what I like about him. He's a solid player, versitle, almost as good as Kent, but not as expensive. Assuming a healthy Lugo, he would pretty well solidify the infield.

[Raven Lunatic]

Originally posted by Buck Turgidson
Mr. Summer Song Giver, what you've just posted is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

The Astros will not be cheating in order to have a successful team this next season. If there is any cheating, especially with my wife who is a dirty, dirty tramp, you will be disqualified.

(Nice quote, Buck)

[Major]

This team should have been rebuilt 3 or 4 years ago that way we'd have gone into the new ballpark with a young dynamic team and now we'd have some young players to go with Berkman and the young pitchers.

You mean like Ward, Hidalgo, Lane, Everett, Lugo, Blum, Ensberg, Oswalt, Miller, Hernandez, Redding, Saarloos, Dotel, and Stone? Or did you want MORE young players?

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally posted by dc sports
If you sign Loretta, you don't sign Kent. Loretta would be our third baseman, possibly rotating some to other positions to give Blum some playing time. That's what I like about him. He's a solid player, versitle, almost as good as Kent, but not as expensive. Assuming a healthy Lugo, he would pretty well solidify the infield.
The 'Stros need another run producer in the lineup. Looks like Lane will be an improvement over Hidalgo in RF (who wouldn't be?) unless Richard has some miraculous return to 2000 form. If they acquire that oft-pined-for but elusive to find speedy CF type, that leaves 3rd base as the only spot in the lineup to gain additional production. Loretta & Blum, as much as I respect their value as utility guys (or in Loretta's case possibly as the regular SS), cannot see regular time at 3rd if the 'Stros hope to compete. This is what I'd try to do if I was in charge:

C: Ausmus
1B: Bagwell (hopefully 100% healthy)
2B: Biggio
SS: Lugo
3rd: Kent or Alfonzo
LF: Shannon Stewart
CF: Berkman
RF: Lane

Lineup: Stewart, Biggio, Berkman, Bagwell, Kent, Lane, Lugo, Ausmus.

Bench: OF - Merced, Hidalgo (untradeable, unless they take on comparable salary), Hunter; IF - Viz, Loretta, Blum; C - Zaun

Rotation: Oz, WaMi, Hernandez, Munro/Redding/Saarrlloos/Rodrigo Rosario, Ismael Valdes (31 GS w/ Tex & Sea, 8-12, 4.18 ERA, 2002 salary $2.5 M)

Bully: Wagner, Dotel, Stone, Lidge, Jeriome Robertson (LH specialist), Puffer (RH batters only), and/or whichever of the Munro/Redding/Saarrlloos group doesn't make the rotation. Hopefully Redding will mature a little more between now & next April.

With the emergence of Josh Phelps as a LF/DH/1B type in Toronto, I'm not sure they'd be interested in a DWard + AA/AAA pitching w/ upside for Stewart. Stros need a leadoff man in the worst way though, I'd try to make it happen.

[rimrocker]

Originally posted by eric.81

1) Less than 30 home runs from our corner outfield positions.

If we're getting Hampton back, let's also bring back "THE TOY CANNON!"

[bobrek]

There have been a few posts regarding the signing of Kent at 3b. Kent has played less than 160 games at 3b in his whole career (and his fielding stats are pretty weak there). He also has not played 3rd since 1996.

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally posted by bobrek
There have been a few posts regarding the signing of Kent at 3b. Kent has played less than 160 games at 3b in his whole career (and his fielding stats are pretty weak there). He also has not played 3rd since 1996.
I am aware. He's never played 3rd on a consistent basis. From what Kent and Dusty Baker have said he would have no problems with a move across the diamond. Arm strength, foot speed and soft hands are all there. It would just take a few months of offseason work & a full spring training for him to feel comfortable. I see no reason why he couldn't field the position effectively.

[kidrock8]

Originally posted by Refman
You really think so? HA!!!! Clemens is DONE...everybody (including the Yankees) knows this. Any team that would offer him $7M at this stage of his career needs a new GM and FAST!!!

Oh and thanks for the Drayton bashing. Good to see some things never change. (yawn)

He's so done, that the Yankees are starting him in Game 1... Know your facts, before you try to make it sound like you have "inside info" or something. You lose any credbility by the fact that you ride McLane's 65-year old jock until it falls off. I think you're constant Drayton defending is as "never changing" as my Drayton bashing. But, of course it's hard for you to see anything objectively.

[kidrock8]

What's funny is the idea that people think we will spend money to get Alfonzo (who would prob get 5 mill/year foolishly by some team), or Kent (who will foolishly get 7-10 mill/year).

There is no precedence of the Astros ever spending money on a free agent who wasn't a pitcher, and even counting pitchers, you have to go back to Drabek and Swindell.

As cheap as McLane is, you also must remember that attendance was down this year from 2001. In addition to that, Berkman and Hidalgo's contracts jump up to a nearly combined 10 million more than from last year. Some of that money is recouped from Mlicki and Reynolds having expiring contracts, but when you factor in the escalating contracts, the Astros payroll as of now, without getting a premier FA will probably be around 70 million. Then if we add a premier FA, we will be around 80 million. There is no chance in hell the payroll will come close to that.

[Refman]

You accuse me of not seeing things objectively. How do you reconcile an independent report stating that at THE CURRENT PAYROLL...the Astros have to draw almost 3 million fans JUST TO BREAK EVEN.

[gr8-1]

Originally posted by Refman
You accuse me of not seeing things objectively. How do you reconcile an independent report stating that at THE CURRENT PAYROLL...the Astros have to draw almost 3 million fans JUST TO BREAK EVEN.

Out of curiosity, where did you get this info?

[Refman]

Originally posted by gr8-1
Out of curiosity, where did you get this info?
It was reported on one of the sports radio shows last week. It was either one of the local shows or on Dan Patrick...I don't recall which.