Astros: Most disappointing team in baseball?

[A-Train]

My answer would be yes...

[Buck Turgidson]

I would put the Mets, Cleveland, and Seattle way ahead of the 'Stros.

[A-Train]

I'll have to disagree:

The Mets didn't improve on their poor starting pitching from last season when they only won 82 games. Cleveland had won 90 and 91 games the last two seasons, and have slowly deteriorated for a couple of seasons now, and it was only a matter of time before they had to rebuild.

As for Seattle, they're still 26 games above .500, would be in 1st place if they were in either the AL or NL Central, and wouldn't be six games back if Oakland hadn't gone on that insane winning streak. Besides, I'm not sure anybody expected them to win 116 games again.

[Raven Lunatic]

I will say the Cubs, because I think there were a lot of people (not me) who thought that with Moises Alou, their hitting would suddenly be as formidable as their solid pitching.

[bobrek]

Using your example that the Mets aren't disappointing because they did not improve their starting pitching, what did the Astros improve on prior to this season?

Their starting and late relief pitching was essentially the same. Their middle relief was unknown. Offensively, they did not improve upon their starting lineup from last year.

Their bench was stronger at the beginning only because Merced and Vizcaino were scheduled to be role players.

Williams also manages different than Dierker so there was a learning curve.

The Astros have pretty much fulfilled their expectations. They are a solid team which will continue to fight for the playoffs for many years to come (barring serious injuries). Granted it is disappointing that they are 5 1/2 behind instead of 5 1/2 ahead, but I don't think they are anywhere near being the most disappointing team in baseball.

Suggest that the Astros results are the most disappointing in baseball to a Cubs, Rangers, White Sox, Red Sox or Mets fan and see what they have to say.

[MadMax]

Rangers -- are you kidding?? that payroll and to be that bad??

Red Sox -- even with Lowe doing his best Cy Young imitation

White Sox -- every magazine i saw had these guys picked to win a very weak division this year...they really haven't even been competitive

Cubs -- everyone talked about how they were gonna turn the NL Central into a 3 team battle...not even close

Mariners -- talk about disappointing...this team tore out of the gate following up last season's amazing record...now they're staring at not even getting a wild card spot. wow!



The Astros were not picked to win the division by most...the Cardinals were. The Astros lost a major run producer last year in Alou...they started the season with two rookies flanking the left side of the infield and Darryl Ward playing in his first full season. I am personally disappointed they're not winning the division..but I'm disappointed every time they don't win the division...but to say they're the most disappointing in baseball?? I don't see that at all.

[kidrock8]

Astros are a tease, yes. Disappointment not really. This is about what I expected. When you lose Alou, and fail to add anyone significant, a slight tailoff from last year should be expected.

This team will not improve until McLane gets pries open his checkbook with a crowbar, and adds a significant FA. It's been 10 years since that's happened (Drabek).

[bobrek]

Since it has been 10 years since the Astros signed Drabek, how do you explain their improvement over that span of time? You claim they will never improve until Drayton opens his checkbook, yet without any significant free agent signings, they have won their division 4 of the past 5 years. One year they won over 100 games and another they had the best record in the NL.

It has been obvious that under the Astros current business plan, they will continue to compete for the playoffs. Remember, it has been their lack of hitting in the playoffs which caused their early exits. Most of their division winning years, the Astros were acknowledged as having one of the best offensive teams in the NL.

Also, bear in mind that McLane opened up his checkbook to keep Bagwell, Biggio, Hidalgo, Reynolds and Wagner.

[kidrock8]

Originally posted by bobrek
Since it has been 10 years since the Astros signed Drabek, how do you explain their improvement over that span of time? You claim they will never improve until Drayton opens his checkbook, yet without any significant free agent signings, they have won their division 4 of the past 5 years. One year they won over 100 games and another they had the best record in the NL.

It has been obvious that under the Astros current business plan, they will continue to compete for the playoffs. Remember, it has been their lack of hitting in the playoffs which caused their early exits. Most of their division winning years, the Astros were acknowledged as having one of the best offensive teams in the NL.

Also, bear in mind that McLane opened up his checkbook to keep Bagwell, Biggio, Hidalgo, Reynolds and Wagner.

Have you heard of a good scouting system?

My point is that Drayton never spends money to IMPROVE the team. I appreciate the fact that he does do a decent job at retaining players, but retention isn't a step towards improvement.

I feel like Drayton is "content" with having a 90-win team who is a borderline playoff team. It's just enough success to have a decent-sized fanbase, while not needing to fork over money. He is the ultimate tease.

When was the last offseason that we actually IMPROVED upon our roster? 1998 when we got Alou?

Every year we lose a significant FA, and hope to replace them with a prospect, who usually can't replace the production.

All I wanted this offseason was for the Astros to sign a MR worth a ****. The closest thing to that was trading for Flash Gordon who will only be an Astro for a month or 2.

[ArtV]

I think to be a dissapointment they have to have had a good record, lost few, if any, key players and picked up some significant players. The Astro, lost Alou and Vinny (who's glove is still there, but the bat has faded) and who did they pick up? Significant? Better than who they lost? I'm a fan but I expected a worse record this year.

My list:

Mets. Ouch - they added payroll and players (Vaughn, Alomar, and got worse. These pieces don't fit.

Rangers. Spent more $$$ to get Park, Everett and Rocker (all mistakes) and lost more games - with a healthy IRod too. I feel for IRod too, because he is the one who will be playing for less elsewhere next year.

Red Sox. Lost Everett and picked up Manny (and Henderson who is old but for a backup isn't bad). Still a good team but too bad they're in the Yank's division.

[bobrek]

Originally posted by kidrock8
Have you heard of a good scouting system?

My point is that Drayton never spends money to IMPROVE the team. I appreciate the fact that he does do a decent job at retaining players, but retention isn't a step towards improvement.

I feel like Drayton is "content" with having a 90-win team who is a borderline playoff team. It's just enough success to have a decent-sized fanbase, while not needing to fork over money. He is the ultimate tease.

When was the last offseason that we actually IMPROVED upon our roster? 1998 when we got Alou?

Every year we lose a significant FA, and hope to replace them with a prospect, who usually can't replace the production.

All I wanted this offseason was for the Astros to sign a MR worth a ****. The closest thing to that was trading for Flash Gordon who will only be an Astro for a month or 2.

I agree that the Astros have a good scouting system as well as player development and minor league system. It is one of the best in baseball. Their system along with the Venezuelan academy takes money. The Astros have chosen to spend the brunt of their money developing and keeping their own talent and it has worked very well. While you criticize McLane for refusing to sign high priced/profile free agents, you should applaud him for applying his resources to player development. He also continues to back Hunsicker and upgrade his contract to keep him around. He also didn't insist they keep Dierker and bought out the last year of his contract (although that decision is a different thread). so that the team could move in a different managerial direction.

Teams spend millions to IMPROVE their rosters all the time with no success. The Reds, Cubs and Cardinals continually spend money to improve their rosters, yet they have a difficult time doing better than the Astros.

The Astros are obviously doing something right.

By the way, I am quite content as well to see the Astros win 90+ games a year and get into the playoffs. It would be great if they would win a series or two and I am as frustrated as the next guy when they don't. I also recognize the difficulty in maintaining the level of excellenc the Astros have shown over the last 5 years (2000 being a notable aberration). Fortunately, I don't set my sights as seeing playoff success and a world championship being the determining factors in my enjoyment of watching the teams I root for. I want them to win, but I enjoy watching them regardless of the ultimate outcome.

[rezdawg]

There are many teams that are more disappointing than the Astros. This shouldnt even be a question.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by bobrek


Teams spend millions to IMPROVE their rosters all the time with no success. The Reds, Cubs and Cardinals continually spend money to improve their rosters, yet they have a difficult time doing better than the Astros.


this is a really important point that often gets overlooked...in the midst of all the whining about "you're not going out and spending hellajack on free agents" we lose the fact that we're still finishing better than the teams that ARE doing that.

free agency has not helped the orioles, the rangers, the mets, the reds, or the cubs at all in the last couple of seasons, despite their activity.

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally posted by MadMax
free agency has not helped the orioles, the rangers, the mets, the reds, or the cubs at all in the last couple of seasons, despite their activity.
Just as a general lack of FA activity has not hindered the A's, Twins, Angels, or Astros.

[Raven Lunatic]

Originally posted by Buck Turgidson
Just as a general lack of FA activity has not hindered the A's, Twins, Angels, or Astros.

In fact, the A's have almost created a strategy out of letting your big name free agents leave. They get extra draft picks for them, and then turn that into more excellent players with a good organization and excellent scouting. Of course, now that there will be no more compensation for free agents that leave, that will change. Still, it was a very impressive way to cope with losing good players.

[mfclark]

I don't know how anyone can put Boston in the category of disappointing. No one knew that Derek Lowe would be this good of a starting pitcher, that Pedro would stay healthy as long as he has, and that Garciaparra would make a full recovery - and that the Red Sox would stay within striking distance, even after losing Manny Ramirez (no, not the poster!) for an extended period of time.

The Astros are the more disappointing team of the two, yes, but they certainly arne't the most disappointing team in baseball. Due to all of the hype, the Mets are. Heck, there are other teams underperforming - the Cubs, White Sox, and Phillies (though they've come on as of late) - to a degree much more severe than than the Astros might be doing.

[Lil Francis]

1. Mets
2. Rangers
3. Red Sox
4. Rockies

[Stevie Francis]

yup, hidalgo the most dissapointing player this year too.

But we had a new mana ger so it makes sense kind of, but no more losing. We gotta do some big changes this off season. greg maddox is a FA

[Refman]

Originally posted by Stevie Francis
yup, hidalgo the most dissapointing player this year too.

But we had a new mana ger so it makes sense kind of, but no more losing. We gotta do some big changes this off season. greg maddox is a FA
And he's just a shade under 140 years old. His career is winding down. Houston needs to stop being a repository for players in the twilight of their career. Charles Barkley anyone? :D

[gr8-1]

Barkley led us past the Sonics, something we couldn't do without him.

Maddux would make this team alot better.

Rockies have never disappointed me. I've had them pegged for 4th in the nl west for the last 4 years. They'll finish 4th or 5th next year as well.

[ZRB]

Seattle is by far the most disappointing. They made me care about baseball last year. Watching them in the playoffs helped fill the void of the NBA offseason. This year, well, you know the story.

Please, let it be October soon...

[don grahamleone]

The astros dissappointment is coming off right now, but other teams have dissappointed much earlier. Without the bad start we are a contender, but the only reason you are saying all of this is because the 'stros have put themselves far out lately.