Espn has Woods dropping like a meteor

[Old Man Rock]

ESPN Latest Mock (http://sports.espn.go.com/nbadraft/story?id=1396886)

15. Houston: Bostjan Nachbar, SF, 6-8, Benetton Treviso (Italy)
The Rockets aren't afraid to take two foreign players in the first round. Their goals were a center and a small forward. The only other name that has been bandied about at this spot has been Tayshaun Prince. But Nachbar has been the consistent favorite.


16. Philadelphia: Qyntel Woods, 6-8, PF, Northeast Mississippi CC
Woods has been the player of late who is dropping like a rock in deep water. He could go another spot or two if the Sixers' pick goes to the Warriors in the first round. Golden State has to decide if it wants this pick or a first-round pick in 2005. Woods is an athletic small forward who has been billed as a legit scorer, something the Sixers could still use.

The more the more I look at it the more and more I think Nachbar won't be there and the Rockets will have to choose between Woods and prince.

I know a lot of people would be upset if we selected prince. But I don't think it would be such a bad pick. He is not Morris clone like some people suggest.

He is a gamer. He grew up in Compton a tough neighborhood in LA and decided right away that he needed to get away from there so he chose Kentucky. I know prince wasn't even in the first round for alot of the mocks... but that is misleading. He didn't have a great season. But he had a lot of great games. And almost all of the biggest games where he played his best. He played well against Jefferies and lead his team to victory. He played sensational in the Ncaa tournament and gave the terps as good a challenge as any other team.

The biggest reason I think he didn't show up consistently because there was a lot of turmoil with the Wildcats team plus he was taking 20 hours trying to graduate on time. A task he completed. Also he has an unorthodox shot, he has these humongous hands which make it difficult for him to shoot with his fingertips making his shots look like a knuckleball. But the guy is as good a long range shooter as anyone and the guy is a gamer.

He wants to take the big shot. A lot like Griffin. He can play D a lot of times being put on the opposing teams toughest player. He has decent handles some people think he can play the two. And while he isn't super fast he has a quick move to the basket. Plus don't forget about the his seven foot wingspan. I know a lot of people will be upset if we pick Prince but don't be surprised if it happens.

[Sherlock]

I love it when these guys drop for stupid reasons... If we could pick up Woods at #15, that would be awesome. Worst case, we could trade him...

There's a reason Magic Johnson is dying to get him... even if he doesn't have any defense, and needs time to develop. At #15, we aren't going to get anyone to start at SF anyway. We want the best tradeable player we can grab. Good grief, I remember only weeks ago, he was projected top 3. If its between Nachbar and Woods, I'd take Woods. Now if Stoudamire is still there, I think I'd take Amare.

It'd also be cool if Hilario drops due to fears about getting out of his contract. If for some reason he falls, I'd take him over anyone else.

[DCkid]

Hmmm...well, the only way I don't see the Wizards taking Woods is if Wagner is available at #11, and I think he'll be gone before then. Jefferies and Woods worked out together for the Wizards, and they sounded much more impressed with Woods.

[thumbs]

Originally posted by DCkid
Hmmm...well, the only way I don't see the Wizards taking Woods is if Wagner is available at #11, and I think he'll be gone before then. Jefferies and Woods worked out together for the Wizards, and they sounded much more impressed with Woods. There is usually an indirect proportion as to how impressed a team is with a player vs. whom they really will draft.:D

[DCkid]

Originally posted by thumbs
There is usually an indirect proportion as to how impressed a team is with a player vs. whom they really will draft.:D
True, but its still hard for me to see Jordan passing on Woods.

[mr_gootan]

As stated within my mock draft about Prince,
"Like bamboo, he's skinny and strong. Bamboo shoots, too.
Ming likes bamboo."
Now how do you argue with that?

[NIKEstrad]

If that happens, we'll get to see how much the Rockets value BJ Johnson's(one of their scouts) opinion of Qyntel.

According to B.J.: (http://www.clutchcity.net/news.cfm?NewsID=925) "He's already a lottery pick."

[DearRock]

If we end up with Ming and Woods or Nachbar or Stoudamire, I would be on top of the world. In fact I will be right there in the MSG. :D

[wrath_of_khan]

I just don't see him falling that far. The guy was a lock for Top 3 and was even being talked about as a Number One a few weeks ago. How does he fall out of the lotto?

Unless GMs are really worried about the pot thing?

My guess is still that MJ figures he can keep Woods under control, and the Wiz take him. (see mock in my sig)

[Dr of Dunk]

Originally posted by thumbs
There is usually an indirect proportion as to how impressed a team is with a player vs. whom they really will draft.:D

If you mean "inverse relationship" I agree. Unless one of the top 2 or maybe 3 picks, I've always thought the more somebody hypes a player up, the less likely they are to draft the guy, or the less likely he's their first choice. :)

Also, for you guys that are saying you want/don't want Woods, what are you basing it on? I've heard he's got incredible offensive skills and nothing on defense, but outside of that I haven't heard much. Did you guys get any info from any of the workouts to come to your conclusions? Hell, I still don't see how people can say they want Nachbar - have you seen him play, or is it just based off of articles saying he can shoot and is quick?

[Live]

I guess those reports of 'wonderful talent, awesome scoring potential, plays no defense at all, has no clue about playing good team ball' are true.

But if he were available @ 15, it would still be very hard for me to pass on him if I were the Rocks.

[Baqui99]

Word is that Qyntel is not a great jump shooter. We already have two slashers in the backcourt. Nachbar would be the perfect compliment. Woods may eventually become the better player, but sometimes you need guys compliment your strengths. Last year it seemed like there were times when we couldn't throw the ball into the ocean. Nachbar is a pure shooter and will kill defenses that try to double team on Francis.

[german rocketfan]

16. Philadelphia: Qyntel Woods, 6-8, PF, Northeast Mississippi CC

I think he's SG/SF,not a PF?????

[COMPAQ CENTER]

would not it be ironic if Qyntel Woods fall this year, similar to Loren Woods fell last year.

[Deuce]

I am not suggesting we do or don't do this, BUT if Woods drops that far would you.....draft Woods and trade him to LA for Horry? LA wants Woods, and they don't have many realistic tradable assets. Horry is one of them. I am sure this does not work cap wise, not sure who we throw in, (Rice and they give us their 1st rounder this year), I don't know. But, with that said, would you do it?

LA apparently loves Woods and Woods is dropping. Interesting.

It is amazing to me that some had Woods as the #4 player on the board and now he is dropping to #16???

Chris

[Old Man Rock]

Would not it be ironic if Qyntel Woods fall this year, similar to Loren Woods fell last year

If a tree falls in the woods do the Lakers get him...

I am not suggesting we do or don't do this, BUT if Woods drops that far would you.....draft Woods and trade him to LA for Horry?

As much as like Horry it would be sacriligious to make that trade... I guss I hate the Lakers more than I like Horry.

[Matador]

Originally posted by NIKEstrad
If that happens, we'll get to see how much the Rockets value BJ Johnson's(one of their scouts) opinion of Qyntel.

According to B.J.: (http://www.clutchcity.net/news.cfm?NewsID=925) "He's already a lottery pick."

Alot can change in the weeks heading up to the draft. Andy Katz, the author of the Mock that has Qyntel going 16th, also had Woods going in the lottery for the past month. Just now he is saying that Woods' value has dropped out of the lottery.

BJ Johnson's asessment of Woods was on March 12th. I wouldn't say that Johnson was off in his prediction that Woods is a lottery pick. Nearly every Mock draft out there had Qyntel going in the top 13 picks. This new Mock by Katz's ESPN is the first one I've seen having him drop this low.

[Joe Joe]

Originally posted by Dr of Dunk
Also, for you guys that are saying you want/don't want Woods, what are you basing it on? I've heard he's got incredible offensive skills and nothing on defense, but outside of that I haven't heard much.

Just various articles/stats/etc.

From Stats

Good FT%...shows discipline. The same work at improving FTs would be helpful behind the line. Most 80%+ FT shooters have some jumpshot even if it is not out to the arc.

Great ability at getting to line.

Great rebounding stats.

Great steal numbers..may not be division I, but they don't pass him the ball either.

Efficient. High adj FG percentage, super high P/FGA

From articles.

Likes to play around basket via penetration, offensive boards.

Guard like offensive skills without a 3 point shot (30%).

Athletism

weak defensively
----------------------------------\

My assessment from various information sources..no first hand knowledge.

FT numbers stay same % wise. Will not get to the line as much as in college. For reference, Shaq is probably the only comparison for how often Q Woods is on the line and people try to foul Shaq. Not as good as Rice at getting to line, but will get there at least 33% more if not 50% more than Rice.

Rebounding numbers should translate to atleast 6 boards a game, but I'm thinking between 7 and 8. Might not be as good a rebounder as Morris, but better than any other SF.

Steals won't nearly be as good as in college, but should be better than any alternative at SF for rocks as far as this goes.

Offensively. I see growing pains. Probably will have a 39 to 43 fg % first year which is better than Morris and Griffin, but he was a better scorer in college than both. I expect him to take easier/closer shots (ie more dunks lay ups) than Griffin and he'll be playing in the NBA more like he did in college than Griffin. The ability to get to the line should help offset the more dificult time of getting off good shots in the NBA.

Defensively....I'm hoping the great wall can help out. :D

[No Worries]

Originally posted by COMPAQ CENTER
would not it be ironic if Qyntel Woods fall this year, similar to Loren Woods fell last year.
This is not irony. It is coincidence.

[Rileydog]

Nice. But don't hate the poster. It's Alanis Morisette's fault (remember "Isn't it Ironic") that a whole generation of kids will misunderstand the meaning of irony.

Oh well. They can always lower the standards for standardized testing.

[ron413]

http://dynamic.espn.go.com/espn/chat/chatESPN?event_id=1955

-Chat with Andy Katz of ESPN, the Mock Draft Expert @2pm CST:

Welcome to ESPN.com's moderated chat room. On Thursday, June 20, senior college basketball writer Andy Katz will drop by to take your NBA Draft questions in chat following the unveiling of his third NBA mock draft.
In addition to covering college basketball on a daily basis and breaking news for the site, Katz pens the "Daily Word" and "Weekly Word," popular columns covering a variety topics and issues from around the sport.

A regular analyst on College Hoops 2Night, Katz also serves as a reporter for ESPN at the Final Four and other major tournaments. He also contributes to ESPN The Magazine and ESPN Radio and provides in-studio college basketball analysis for ESPN and ESPNEWS Network, ESPN's 24-hour sports news cable network.

Prior to joining ESPN.com in November 1999, Katz served as the national basketball writer for the Fresno Bee from 1995-99. He also has had stints at the Albuquerque Journal (1990-1995) and Milwaukee Journal Sentinel (1989-1990) and is a former board member for the United States Basketball Writers Association.

Katz hits chat on Thursday at 3 p.m. ET. Feel free to drop him some questions now and we'll save them for his arrival.

[No Worries]

This is not irony. It is coincidence.
I have a really funny George Carlin bit on irony versus coincidence, but I can not seem to put my hands on it right now :( Maybe tonight, I will find it at home and post it :)

[Lil Francis]

Rudy would be crazy to take Prince with the 15th pick.

[travfrancis]

prince is one of the best 3 pt shooters ive ever seen i watched a gmae where he hit 6 consecutive threes he also is a good defender and gets alot of blocks

prince/griffin/ming = leading the league in blocks

[LAfadeaway33]

If it were between Woods and Prince, there is no way the Rockets (or anyone for that matter) would take Prince. He's a nice player and all but he just doesn't have the potential Woods does. However, these are the Rockets we're talking about here. They drafted Rhodrick Rhodes and Jason Collier, so you never know i guess.

[Lil Francis]

Originally posted by travfrancis
prince is one of the best 3 pt shooters ive ever seen i watched a gmae where he hit 6 consecutive threes he also is a good defender and gets alot of blocks

prince/griffin/ming = leading the league in blocks But would you take him over Woods or the H.S. guy?

[Old Man Rock]

Just for the Record I think the Rockets have a damn good draft record... With the addition of Ming the Rockets will have arguably selected the best players in 3 out of the last 4 drafts... Certainly Griffin is better than Brown and Francis and Brand were corookis of the year... Collier was a reach but they new there was not a player that would bring them what they needed at the 8th spot, Pryzbilla was not the answer and they didn't see Magliore as much of and improvement over Cato... So they were wrong a bit with Magliore... So they were smart enough to trade the lousy 8th pick for the 15th and a future first that landed them Griffin... And they got Collier in the process. They were hoping he would be able to open the floor a bit and pull Shaq away from the paint... oh forget it why do I even bother...

The thing is the Rockets are looking for some one to contribute now. Woods has a lot of upside but everyone must think he is a project for him to be dropping so fast.

I haven't seen Woods play but I have seen Prince and I wouldn't be too dis appointed if they got him. He is a player who can come in and contribute right away.

Some scouts compare his game to Pippen. Others say Jalen rose.

[tozai]

Prince just doesn't translate as well to the NBA. It sounds like our 3 choices at #15 are Nachbar, Stoudemire & Prince. Sad thing is that Nachbar and Stoudemire will be gone and we'll probably pick Prince instead of Woods. I've seen Prince play alot of games, however, while not anything of Woods other than hearsay. Prince has the potential to be mediocre in the NBA while Woods has the athleticism and upside to be much more.

[JoeBarelyCares]

Originally posted by No Worries

This is not irony. It is coincidence.

Woods is falling so that the Lakers can trade up and get him. It is all part of the NBA-Stern conspiracy. If you don't think there is such a thing, go back and look at the videotapes of game 6 of the Western Conference finals.

[ron413]

lets start an anti-Prince petition/ thread...

even though I saw him play in one game last year on CBS and he was lights out... Shooting the trey (3) from like 25-30 feet away, nothing but net, like 6 shots in a row. It was the most incredible shooting I have ever seen. But we need more than that out of a SF!

[Old Man Rock]

A recent scouting report on Prince...

Scouting Report: Lithe lefty reminds of former San Antonio Spurs forward George Gervin and ABA superstar Connie Hawkins ... Game has flourished since his move from the perimeter to the interior ... Comes complete with a tremendous wingspan of seven feet ... Solid first step and foot speed, though he is not explosive and utilizes his size ... Takes long strides on silky smooth attacks at the seam, keeping his man on his shoulder and shielding him from getting in front of his shot ... An excellent finisher off drives, he uses his rangy frame to go over the top of the defense by extending on his follow through or using his long wingspan to swoop shots off the side of traffic ... Can easily garner looks at the basket against most defenders in one-on-one situations ... Doesn't always exploit his size well enough though ... Tends to sag outside and settle for long-range jump shots, an area of his game that he initially began to improve upon, but hasn't continued to do that since ... A hot-cold shooter who is truly good when he's on and truly bad when he's off ... Owns a rather feathery touch ... Gets under the ball and pushes it out on his release with the palm of his shooting hand ... This gives his shot a lot of arc, but virtually no rotation ... With his hands as big as they are it is very difficult for him to get good rotation on his shot because it is tougher to release the ball off the fingertips with an oversize hand ... Really measures up on his jumper and this slows down his entire shooting rotation ... Has continued to add considerable weight and must keep doing so in order to improve his ability to score and rebound in the paint ... Not enough of a threat in the post ... Does have a spin move to the basket followed by an up and under in which he uses a little floating one-hander to complete ... Great tracking ability as a rebounder ... Decision making needs work ... Has the physical skills to be a potential defensive stopper ... Brother of former Pepperdine forward Tommy Prince. Professional Outlook: Prince has a chance of being an NBA first round pick if he can sell scouts on the idea of his ability to play the small forward position at the next level. Prince has done so at Kentucky, but it's been at the four spot that he has really flourished. Nevertheless, Prince is a lock to get drafted, as he has an upside that is extremely attractive to NBA brass.

George Gervin yeah he does have that kind of frame... if he could just learn to finger roll...

Oh by the way Katz was asked how he gets his info and he said he just calls the teams and asks and the Rockets must have said they are interested in Prince...

[NIKEstrad]

I've heard conflicting reports on Woods' shooting-

"I think he has the sweetest stroke in the draft," said the personnel man from that Decent NBA team.

Yeah, this kid's a real deadeye.

Here's the link, a pretty interesting article-
Qyntel Woods Article (http://foxsports.lycos.com/content/view?contentId=541362)

That scout also says that he has the physical tools to play D, he's just never really been asked, or taught how to use them.

If Woods is as talented as all the reports say he is, I don't see how we could pass on him.

[Relativist]

Originally posted by tozai
Prince has the potential to be mediocre in the NBA
I don't have problems with "mediocre." With Yao, we have enough talent on this team already, IMO. What we need is to become a better, more effective team and to acquire players who help us become a better team. Prince doesn't have to be a star for him to be the right pick for the Rockets at #15. He just has to have strengths that complement the players that we have, i.e. - three-point shooting, etc, and minimal weaknesses to hurt us (like poor shooting, no defense, etc.) Consider also that we probably can't afford to pay our starting SF a lot of money, and if you want serious talent at that position, you're probably going to have to pay for it.

If people feel like we can get more out of this pick by trading it than taking Prince, fine. But I say don't pass on a player just because he doesn't have sexy 'balla' potential.

[bigboymumu]

Prince is slower than Matt Maloney!

[Joe Joe]

Prince has a slow release. Whether he can get his great 3 pt shot off or not will determine if he's an okay player/good role player vs a bust. His height should help with getting the shot off.

[tozai]

OK, I'd rather get Woods than Prince even though I've seen Prince play alot and Woods not at all...Makes no sense, huh?

Prince has some skills but alot of the stuff he did in college he won't be able to do here...His shooting is good but definitely overrated...He's left-handed with an odd stroke and likes using the floater in the lane...I don't think he can handle post-up 3's very well, actually his defense is suspect in general against NBA players...too skinny, lateral quickness??? Does have nice wingspan and fundamentals...I question him getting off same shots in the NBA as he did at kentucky

I hear Woods has bad defense...suspect background...I'm not sure about all this criticism though...maybe with a good coach he can use his athleticism and skills develop into a good player
Immediately I don't think Woods would make a great impact or Prince or Stoudemire...probably only Nachbar doing something similar to Radmanovic...In the future the most promise is for Stoudemire developing into a Ben Wallace type, and Woods I have no idea about, next TMac is jumping the gun just a little...

[COMPAQ CENTER]

Originally posted by No Worries

This is not irony. It is coincidence.

If Woods fell to the Lakers, it could be more than pure coincidence.

It might be irony, in the sense that for the silliest reason, teams made their homework on him and were not sure about him, but are skeptical of the name Woods and think he might be a bust.

Can not you tell I am superstitious.

Or it could be both coincidence and irony, in the sense that both have the same last name and there is conspiracy theory. Loren Woods fell to the T-Wolves who did not have a first round pick and Qyntel Woods fall to the Lakers the NBA champions.

There are many things that could happen behind the scene.

It just seems more than coincidence to me if that happened.

[ricealum]

Old Man Rock: "The biggest reason I think he didn't show up consistently because there was a lot of turmoil with the Wildcats team plus he was taking 20 hours trying to graduate on time. A task he completed. Also he has an unorthodox shot, he has these humongous hands which make it difficult for him to shoot with his fingertips making his shots look like a knuckleball. But the guy is as good a long range shooter as anyone and the guy is a gamer.

He was all-SEC as a junior and never saw single coverage again (well, not 'never,' but you get the idea) so his stats fell dramatically as a senior.

Baqui99: "Word is that Qyntel is not a great jump shooter. We already have two slashers in the backcourt. Nachbar would be the perfect compliment. Woods may eventually become the better player, but sometimes you need guys compliment your strengths. Last year it seemed like there were times when we couldn't throw the ball into the ocean."

Last year we had KT (a slasher and undersized inside player) at the 4, Williams (streaky) and Morris at the 3, Griffin (a rookie who slammed into the wall at 150 mph), Mobley (streaky outside shooter) at the 2, and Francis (frequent migraines etc.) at the 1. Adding MoT and Rice into the mix will improve our shooting without adding a single draft pick. Getting Woods would be amazing stroke of luck and I think we should take it if we're given the chance.

german rocketfan: "I think he's SG/SF,not a PF?????"

Kind of makes you wonder about ESPN's mock drafts, doesn't it? You're exactly right. ESPN is wrong. I doubt it was Katz that made the mistake, but I also doubt Woods will fall to #16.....

ron413: "I saw [Prince] play in one game last year on CBS and he was lights out... Shooting the trey (3) from like 25-30 feet away, nothing but net, like 6 shots in a row. It was the most incredible shooting I have ever seen. But we need more than that out of a SF!"

That was the North Carolina game, I think ... he hit maybe 4-5 in a row and was obviously feeling it. At one point just flung it up from nearly midcourt, as if he thought he could hit anything. It went in. He can shoot, but that's not all of his game. He's smart and plays good team D. But I think he's a bit of a tweener and may be too slow to play 3 in the NBA.

LAfadeaway33: "If it were between Woods and Prince, there is no way the Rockets (or anyone for that matter) would take Prince. He's a nice player and all but he just doesn't have the potential Woods does. However, these are the Rockets we're talking about here. They drafted Rhodrick Rhodes and Jason Collier, so you never know i guess."

Rhodes was what, #24? And we needed a PG? That was a reach, but anything that late is a crap shoot. Collier was a sweet shooting seven footer in a poor draft, and we got a future first rounder in the deal? Bad, but not awful. Imagine if you traded Collier anda future #1 for Pryz. Think you'd be taking some heat?

I like Prince, but if Woods were available, I'd take him at #15 in a flash. He could mature behind Rice and Mobley for two years and then ... who knows? He starts when Rice retires, or we call him a bust ...

You take Woods over Prince for the same reason you take Yao over Borshardt: upside. Neither is a sure thing. You take the one with the chance of leading you to a championship. You take the sure thing when you're already a contender and there is a sure thing. Even at #15, there usually isn't.

[Relativist]

If Rice really is ready to contribute this year, I'd be more open to snatching up Woods at #15. I want someone ready to contribute at the starting SF spot. If Rice can do the job for two years, I'd be cool with picking up a talent and letting him develop for a bit. If he starts cashing in on his potential, we could always trade him. Maybe we could get an aging Shaq for Woods. :D

[No Worries]

Originally posted by No Worries

I have a really funny George Carlin bit on irony versus coincidence, ...
excerpt from George Carlin's book, Brain Droppings

Irony deals with opposites; it has nothing to do with coincidence. If
two baseball palyers from the same hometown, on different teams, receive
the same uniform number, it is not ironic. It is a coincidence. If Barry
Bonds attains lifetime statistics identical to his father's it will not
be ironic. It will be a coincidence. Irony is "a state of affairs that
is the reverse of what was to be expected; a result opposite to and in
mockery of the appropriate result." For instance:

If a diabetic, on his way to buy insulin, is killed by a runaway truck,
he is the victim of an accident. If the truck was delivering sugar, he
is the victim of an oddly poetic coincidence. But if the truck was
delivering insulin, ah! Then he is the victim of an irony.

If a Kurd, after surviving bloody battle with Saddam Hussein's army and
a long, difficult escape through the mountains, is crushed and killed by
a parachute drop of humanitarian aid, that, my friend, is irony writ large.

Darryl Stingley, the pro football player, was paralyzed after a brutal
hit by Jack Tatum. Now Darryl Stingley's son plays football, and if the
son should become paralyzed while playing, it will not be ironic. It
will be coincidental. If Darryl Stingley's son paralyzes someone else,
that will be closer to ironic. If he paralyzes Jack Tatum's son that
will be precisely ironic.

and now back to your regularly scheduled thread musings ...

[COMPAQ CENTER]

If Steve Francis, who won the Rockets the #1 in the draft and was all smiling on National TV got traded because of that pick, that would be irony.

[COMPAQ CENTER]

[i]Originally posted by No Worries

If he paralyzes Jack Tatum's son that will be precisely ironic.


That would be precisely revenge.

[giddyup]

Originally posted by No Worries

excerpt from George Carlin's book, Brain Droppings
One of the all-time funniest books... I was very disappointed in the book that followed.