Astros Pitching

[Major]

Wow, it sucks. Outside of Oswalt, all our starters have been somewhere between sketchy and really bad. Ricky Stone & TJ Matthews of all people are our only good relievers thus far! Yikes.

[kidrock8]

Yup. Our middle relief just stinks.

I wish we had made a move to get a proven middle reliever, seeing how we dumped Alou and Astacio's contracts.

[chievous minniefield]

what is wrong with miller?

after 3 starts, the opening day fiasco is not looking like a fluke. he's getting tagged left and right.

has anyone spotted anything in his mechanics? is he leaving the ball up? has his velocity changed?

winning tonight's game would have really helped matters a great deal.

how can so many pitchers be sucking all at once?

what's wrong with cruz? dotel?

[kidrock8]

Hopefully he's not suffering from being overworked last year, like Elarton one year ago.

[haven]

Too early to give up on Miller...

kidrock: though the comparison is inauspicious, Elarton was never that good. His "great" season, his ERA was 4.82, and he just had phenomenal run support to get that gaudy record. Miller's ERA, 3.40, was quite good.

The Astros need another reliever, though it's foolish to just go after a "proven one." The season is long: the astros have plenty of time to see if people like Puffer won't work. Maybe try out Redding again. Bad idea to give up prospects for one until the dead-line, since the 'stros might find another solution.

[chievous minniefield]

I agree that it's too early to give up on him.

what I want to know is: what is he doing that is allowing the batters to best him? not being able to watch the games, I only know what the stats tell me.

it looks like he's giving up more home runs than he used to. is he leaving the ball up?

usually, when a pitcher's effectiveness declines, there's a reason for it. I'm just wondering what it is that miller is doing differently.

[haven]

usually, when a pitcher's effectiveness declines, there's a reason for it. I'm just wondering what it is that miller is doing differently

Last night it was pretty obvious... his release point was way off.

[Major]

With the relievers, the sample size is pretty small, so it's hard to tell what's going on with them. With Miller, what makes it really strange is that he kicked ass in spring training. Yeah, it doesn't mean that much, but based on the reuslts, he didn't seem to have mechanical problems then.

[Ottomaton]

Well, Oswalt's looking pretty good today with 9k's through 4 innings (78 pitches).

Also, apparently Miller's going to miss his next start because he's been having 'neck spasms'. I don't know if that could have been affecting his delivery, but the anouncers said before the game today that his velocity was where it was last year for yesterday's game.

[Vengeance]

I'm worried about Miller too, but I'll give him 5 starts before I start to get too nervous . . .

[mfclark]

Originally posted by Ottomaton
Also, apparently Miller's going to miss his next start because he's been having 'neck spasms'. I don't know if that could have been affecting his delivery, but the anouncers said before the game today that his velocity was where it was last year for yesterday's game.

Yeah, the Astors put that out in a press release today. Said he also complained of a "dead arm," but didn't elaborate as to whether that mean he lost velocity (not likely) or just couldn't do what he needed to/wanted to with the ball.

Also in that press release said Wilfredo Rodriguez was lost for the season due to arthroscopic elbow surgery. Hope he recovers soon.

[haven]

Oswalt thew 115 pitches today... overpitching him to cover up for a weak bullpen is bad, bad, bad long-term planning.

115 is too much for someone his age.

[chievous minniefield]

I knew something had to be wrong with miller, physically. also, he seems like the type of guy to not exactly be first in line to tell the trainer he's struggling with something. I'm just glad he came clean with this. . .

Miller will miss next start due to neck spasms, 'dead arm'
April 13, 2002
SportsLine.com wire reports

ST LOUIS -- Houston pitcher Wade Miller will miss his next scheduled start after complaining of neck spasms and a "dead arm."

Miller, who lost Friday night at St. Louis, will return to Houston on Sunday. Astros manager Jimy Williams said Miller will be examined by team doctor David Lintner on Monday.

Miller had been scheduled to pitch in Cincinnati Wednesday. He is 0-2 with an 9.00 ERA after giving up six runs and seven hits in five innings to the Cardinals.

[Major]

Oswalt thew 115 pitches today... overpitching him to cover up for a weak bullpen is bad, bad, bad long-term planning.


He only pitched 6 innings and was totally dominant. He wasn't overpitched by any stretch. As for the pitch counts, that depends totally on the pitcher. Most of the young Marlin and A's pitchers are averaging over 100 pitches per game. Great pitchers like Maddux, Glavine, Clemens, Shilling, Johnson, Mussina, etc all averaged over 100 pitches per game early in their careers, and none have had significant injury problems. 115 pitches in one game really isn't abnormal.

[BobFinn*]

This entire pitch count thing is way out of hand. I could see if maybe he was throwing 170-200 pitches a game, then you would have a problem down the road. Oswalt throwing 115 pitches is normal for a Major League pitcher.

[Ottomaton]

Originally posted by haven
Oswalt thew 115 pitches today... overpitching him to cover up for a weak bullpen is bad, bad, bad long-term planning.

115 is too much for someone his age.

Uh...

Two questions:

1. Aren't you an college undergrad?

2. Assuming you are, why do you refer to 'that age' with the derigatory sageness of one many times the age of 'that age'?

[Dreamshake]

Miller is starting to scare me. I just keept thinking, Elarton, and Lima.

Miller's fastball looked pretty plain. 93 MPH seemed about what he was hitting, but it was flat and had little to almost no movement. He didn't seem to hit the corners to well after the first 2 innings either. That 500 foot blast he gophered up to Drew, was about as bad a pitch as Ive seen since Lima left our rotation. Slow, no break, up in the zone.

I really hope Miller pulls through this. Dont want him to come down to hard after a pretty good year last year.

[haven]

Ottomaton:

Young pitchers are particularly susceptible to being overpitched. Conventional wisdom among people who actually look at the issue, is that you don't want them averaging much more than 100.

Unfortunately, it's very difficult to gather objective data on the issue because pitchers vary so much.

Incidentally, pointing out people who "made it" and threw a lot of pitches when they were young is silly. Of course it doesn't ruin everyone's arm. It just tends to damage their arms. For every Maddux, there's a Pulsipher. Probably more Pulsipher's than Maddux's (and no, not talent... I'm referring to overpitching).

Better to be safe, than sorry...

[Ottomaton]

haven -

Not faulting the logic of your statement, just the tone. You sound like Mel Stotamire speaking from 40 years of experience with 'them kids'.

Of course, it's probably just me.
:)

[Stevierebel]

Hopefully Miller will not miss more than one start. This is not the time to lose him especially starting off this bad. A set rotation for the year is very valuable I think.

[haven]

Ottomaton:

certainly unintended...

I was never much of a pitcher ;).