Does Drayton McLane have the know-how to build a championship team?

[Drewdog]

I ask this question because I feel like we were led to believe that once Enron/Astros Field was complete, McLane would start investing/spending more in order to field us a competitive team.

This off-season many including myself got discouraged when we did not make offers to Vinny Castilla (a solid player who really rebounded from his abysmal Tampa Bay days) and Moises Alou (our best hitter on the team last year and MVP candidate).

I understand the theory of staying young. Both Castilla and Alou are in their mid-30's. If it were not for our 2 golden children: Craig Biggio and Jeff Bagwell, this team would be one if not the most youngest teams in the league.

I feel great about this years team. Reynolds, Miller, Oswalt provide a strong rotation, and our outfield of Berkman, Hidalgo (providing he can rebound from 2001), and Ward makes us a strong team all around.

My question is this:
Do you feel CONFIDENT that Drayton McLane will do everything he can to keep this young nucleus together, given his past history of the Wal-Mart philosophy of keeping payroll down???

In my opinion, I think he will keep his payroll at $65 million for the next 5 years or so (negating the promise I recall him saying when we built Enron Field), we will lose Berkman, Everett, Miller, and Oswalt to a Yankee payroll caliber team, and see more of our farm players brought up. Basically we harvest all of the talent, bring them up for 2-3 years, and then get out-bid by another team who can pay more $$$ (see Oakland Athletics)

Comments?

[kidrock8]

It's not that he doesn't have the know-how. He just has his wallet locked up.

We will never win as long as Drayton is owner.

We lose in the 1st round for the 4th year in 5 years, and we upgrade the team by adding a 4th OF, in Brian Hunter, while losing Alou and Castilla. Way to go Drayton.

Drayton is a worse owner than Bud Adams. At the very least, Adams was willing to pay money for the best talent, before the salary cap.

[Raven Lunatic]

I don't really think it will be a big problem. Right now, Biggio is making somewhere around 8-10 mil a season, and Reynolds is making about 7 mil a season. Both of them will have their contracts come up within a year or two, as I recall, so that will be a lot of cap space that can be used to sign guys like Oswalt (Berkman was signed for 4 years so he will be here a while), Miller, Hernandez, Ward, etc. I am sure that somebody will be lost here and there, but that is to be expected. If we somehow lose Ward, Hidalgo or (God forbid) Berkman, then there is still Jason Lane knocking on the door almost ready to hit the majors and take their place. But I don't see us losing any of our young talent to free agency for at least another 4 years or so. When Biggio's contract is up, I think he will either retire or sign for much less (since he is much older and less productive now) and Reynolds will likely not be resigned since there are so many young arms waiting to break through into the rotation.

Yes, it does bother me that McClane is not willing to poney up the dough necessary to put us over that hump, but thankfully this team has one of the best farm systems in the league, so he can get away with it.

[JayZ750]

Originally posted by kidrock8
We will never win as long as Drayton is owner.


Do you honestly think that the next owner in here is going to open his wallet like the Yankees or something? It's not the owner, its the economics of the city. The organization is run extremely well and with Cleveland, may be the best "middle market" team of the last 5 years. Further, we;ve had the talent in the past. We were, in my opinion, the best team in baseball when we lost out to the Padres in the first round. The team was there, they just didn't perform.

[bobrek]

The Astros have won division title 4 of the last 5 years. It was not due to a lack of money that the Astros faltered in the playoffs. For the most part, the hitting has been outstanding in the regular season and terrible in the postseason. The pitching has been good in the regular season and very good during the postseason.

Although the Astros could certainly use Johnson, Hampton and/or Kile, the lack of those players has not seriously affected the Astros in their postseason defeats. You certainly can't complain about the pitching performances of Miller or Mlicki against the Braves.

This is the first season that the Astros have lost a significant position player (Alou) in the past 5 years. While Maclane may not have made moves to keep players, he has not been hesitant to obtain players (e.g. Astacio and Johnson).

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally posted by Raven Lunatic
I don't really think it will be a big problem.

It's not; but the poorly-informed whiners have to complain about something, don't they? How anyone can objectively look at the Astros organization & not be truly thrilled at our prospects for success over the next 8-10 years is utterly baffling.

Originally posted by Raven Lunatic
Yes, it does bother me that McClane is not willing to poney up the dough necessary to put us over that hump, but thankfully this team has one of the best farm systems in the league, so he can get away with it.

What's wrong w/ a little fiscal responsibility? Did anyone really expect the Astros to spend $90 M on payroll like the Dogers, Yanks & others? Everyone likes to bitch & moan about the Yankees "buying" the WS every year, but then at the same time they bitch because the Astros don't do the same thing. Face it, Houston is a mid-market city; the Astros simply do not receive the revenue from TV & radio contracts to "pony up" the same kind of cash. Florida tried, & look what happened to that franchise. Arizona spent big bucks & it paid off short-term, but the D-Backs have SERIOUS financial problems & will be, after the current crop of veterans retire or are no longer productive, basically screwed for the forseeable future. Tom Hicks has been throwing around $$$ like a monkey flinging ***** for the last 3 years, where's that gotten the Rangers? How about the Orioles?

The Astros are a model MLB franchise: spend resonably (& w/in their budget) on payroll; spend the $$$ necessary to have one of the top 2 or 3 front offices, minor league systems & scouting departments (& foreign academies); retain selected veterans/stars (Reynolds, Biggio, Bagwell, Wagner); sign promising young players to early extensions to save long-term $$$ (Hidalgo, Berkman); & develop young pitching (free agent pitchers are always overpaid & present the biggest probability of sunk cost & zero return-on investment due to their higher rate of injury than position players).

People always complain about the players the 'Stros lose, but I don't see the problem. Kile was made a fair offer & signed for $2 M more w/ Colorado. Everett was traded partly for financial reasons, but people forget that we had a glut of OF'ers & needed to get rid of someone (oh yeah, we got a starting SS & a solid LHP prospect for him too). The Unit wasn't going to stay in Houston, no matter how much $$$ we offered. Hampton stated flatly that he would test the FA market & so we got the best deal we could (also enabling us to get rid of D. Bell) before losing him for nothing (& look at the ridiculous contract Colorado gave him, would you be happier if he'd signed the same contract w/ Houston?). Mo Alou was a fantastic hitter, but definitely an injury risk & again, we have a fantastic young player to plug into his spot.

[Drewdog]

Originally posted by Raven Lunatic
Yes, it does bother me that McClane is not willing to poney up the dough necessary to put us over that hump, but thankfully this team has one of the best farm systems in the league, so he can get away with it.

Exactly. McLane has had the luxury of losing better/higher priced players because he knows he has one if not the best farm system in the league to fall back on.

bobrek-
True McLane has gone out there to get a good pitcher to compete in the playoffs (Johnson and Astacio), but in both cases these were merely "rentals" because both players were in the final years of their contracts. Hunsicker admitted that in both cases, and we never had a chance at retaining Johnson with the offer we made him in the off season.

I get jealous when I see all the other teams in the league swapping great players and picking up prized free agents to improve their respective teams in the offseason.

Even Jeff Bagwell admitted his frustration this offseason when we didnt make any attempts to resign Alou, or pick up any quality FA's to replace him. Drayton forces Hunsicker to clip coupons and pick up scrubs like Geoff Blum, Greg Zaun, and Brian Hunter; Hardly big FA pickups.

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally posted by Drewdog


Exactly. McLane has had the luxury of losing better/higher priced players because he knows he has one if not the best farm system in the league to fall back on.

Is Alou significantly better than Ward, given their differing price tag & Alou's fragility? Is Carl Everett better than Berkman or Hidalgo? Is Astacio better than Carlos Hernandez? Is Castilla better than Ensberg?

Originally posted by Drewdog
Even Jeff Bagwell admitted his frustration this offseason when we didnt make any attempts to resign Alou, or pick up any quality FA's to replace him. Drayton forces Hunsicker to clip coupons and pick up scrubs like Geoff Blum, Greg Zaun, and Brian Hunter; Hardly big FA pickups.

Who should we have signed?

[Raven Lunatic]

You are right, Buck. The Astros are merely working within their budget. I know that, at least in the last few years, that has not hurt us at all (and in some cases helped), but sometimes I worry that our farm system might degrade to some degree, or the team will hit a stretch where some bad draft choices are made and the well of great young talent will run dry temporarily. In that situation, Drayton's penny pinching ways (which are a boon during good times) might hurt us.

But I do realize that is a baseless fear. There is no reason to think that our excellent farm system will suddenly decline, or that the overall talent level coming out of college/high school will be worse over a long period of time.

I guess I was just trying to find something to complain about. ;)

[Buck Turgidson]

Astros model of fiscal, on-field success
by Tracey Ringolsby, Rocky Mountain News

March 22, 2002
TEMPE, Ariz. -- The Houston Astros might be the most underappreciated franchise in baseball.

They live within a reasonable budget.

They annually contend.

And they do it without a lot of fanfare.

Why?

Because instead of moaning about their financial limitations, they have put together one of the more productive farm systems in baseball, which allows them to make their concessions to financial demands without conceding anything in the National League Central.

This is a team that since the end of last season lost right-handed starting pitcher Pedro Astacio and the middle-of-the-lineup bats of outfielder Moises Alou and third baseman Vinny Castilla. In the off-season, the Astros made only minor acquisitions, signing backup outfielder Brian Hunter and reserve catcher Greg Zaun. But as they get ready to break spring camp, the Astros expect to battle the St. Louis Cardinals for the division title.

What gives?

Daryle Ward, after two seasons of backup duty, is being given the opportunity to take over for Alou. Morgan Ensberg is being promoted from the minor leagues to replace Castilla. And left-hander Carlos Hernandez is making the move to the big leagues to take the place of Astacio.

That's about $20 million in salary savings, giving the Astros a $62 million payroll, which puts them ahead of only Oakland among teams that are considered legitimate postseason threats.

It's not as though the Astros don't have high-priced talent. But they have been careful in making long-term commitments.

First baseman Jeff Bagwell is in the second year of a five-year, $85 million contract extension. Second baseman Craig Biggio is in the first year of a two-year extension that guarantees him $20 million. Closer Billy Wagner signed a three-year, $27 million deal during the off-season. Even outfielder Richard Hidalgo has three years and $27 million remaining on the four-year deal he signed a year ago.

The Astros, though, don't have any other obligations that extend past this season, providing them long-term flexibility and opportunity for the next wave of talent from the farm system.

It's all part of the long-range plan created by general manager Gerry Hunsicker.

He is judicious with long-term deals in an effort to avoid costly mistakes. It's no coincidence that all four of the Astros players with multiyear commitments never have played a day in the big leagues with another organization, which means Houston had a strong reading on the makeup of the four before they made the financial guarantee.

The Astros can afford to follow that approach because of the job they have done in scouting and player development.

The only projected starter in the Astros lineup who has played a big-league game for a team other than Houston is catcher Brad Ausmus.

Biggio (second base), Ensberg (third), Hidalgo (right field) and Lance Berkman (center) originally were signed by the Astros, as was Julio Lugo, who is battling Adam Everett for the shortstop job. And while Bagwell originally signed with Boston, Ward with Detroit and Everett with the New York Yankees, each of the three was traded to the Astros during his minor league career.

And it carries over to the pitching staff.

Wagner, right-handed starters Roy Oswalt, Wade Miller and Shane Reynolds, and left-hander Hernandez are original Astros products, leaving right-hander Dave Mlicki as the only member of the rotation who came from outside the organization.

The Astros have promising starter Tim Redding, another homegrown product, headed to the bullpen, waiting to step into the rotation if one of the projected starters struggles.

So far, the Astros have been able to parlay their approach into a world championship. They have won four division titles in the past five years and have done it without challenging the $100 million salary barrier.

They have been able to do it despite financially mandated decisions that resulted in them losing Darryl Kile after the 1997 season, Randy Johnson after the 1998 season and Mike Hampton after the 1999 season.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/sports_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_83_1042625,00.html

Funny that the 'Stros get more respect from the national & out-of-town media than from their own "fans". The fans of about 25 other MLB franchises would kill to have their teams be as successful as Houston.

[Drewdog]

Originally posted by Buck Turgidson
Who should we have signed?

Im not the GM or the owner. My point has been this: Drayton promised us more spending on players/improvement of the team once we were out of the dome and built him a new stadium (which in turn would generate more revenue). He has yet to deliver his promise IMO.

Dont get me wrong, I am pleased with this years team, and think we have a great future with all of the new exciting younger players. I am just not so sure that Drayton has the financial capacity to keep the nucleus of this young team together.

[Drewdog]

Great article Buck. I guess its just frustration on my part.....

[Buck Turgidson]

I just re-read the thread title & thought I'd add my $.02 on that too. Drayton admits he doesn't know jack ***** about baseball. He is, regardless of your personal feelings towards the man, an extremely knowledgable & successful businessman. He runs the business side of the franchise, Gerry runs the baseball side, & I think there's no question that he posesses the know-how to build a championship team.

[Major]

Two points:

(1) Drayton DID increase spending with the new ballpark. The thing is that he did as soon as he got the commitment to the new ballpark and took extra losses between the time it was voted on and the time it was built. During those years, the payroll went from like $40M to $65M, I believe. The problem is, during the same period, teams like the Yankees went from $60M to $120M.

(2) You can argue about the commitment, but the results have been amazing. We were the trendy team to pick in 1998 with everything needed to beat the 110+ win Yankees. Again last year, tons of people had us in the WS. We were even favored in 1999 over ATL with the injury-hell we had (that makes the Rockets injuries look minor -- we had all 6 opening day outfielders out at one point with Biggio and Spiers converting to outfielders for a while).

The team has choked, but management has given them all the pieces you could ask for. The last 4 post-season problems haven't been a management problem so much as a problem of our stars not producing while everyone else's do. Yeah, there are a few positions that could use upgrades (3B, speed in the outfield), but EVERY team has those -- even the ones that spend $120M.

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally posted by Raven Lunatic

I guess I was just trying to find something to complain about. ;)

I hear ya...I'm just way too excited about baseball starting to let all this negativity get me down.

[Major]

The only projected starter in the Astros lineup who has played a big-league game for a team other than Houston is catcher Brad Ausmus.

wow.

[Raven Lunatic]

That impessed me too, Major. Everyone complains about the Braves (not so much with AOL now) and the Yankees buying their success. Well, the Astros have been very successful the last 5 years with mostly homegrown players that were either scouted and drafted, or at the very least developed in our system. I take pride in being a fan of team that is able to do that.

[Drewdog]

Youth is great to have on the team, but lets face it, these kids simply dont have the playoff experience YET to get us to the World Series.

I think realistically we could have a shot of making/winning the World Series in 3 years IF our young nucleus stays in tact. Of course, given Drayton's past, I dont think he can afford it.

[kidrock8]

Originally posted by JayZ750


Do you honestly think that the next owner in here is going to open his wallet like the Yankees or something? It's not the owner, its the economics of the city. The organization is run extremely well and with Cleveland, may be the best "middle market" team of the last 5 years. Further, we;ve had the talent in the past. We were, in my opinion, the best team in baseball when we lost out to the Padres in the first round. The team was there, they just didn't perform.

You must not remember that Cleveland once had a payroll of close to 90 million dollars.

Drayton may someday spend 90 million pesos, but never 90 million dollars.

[kidrock8]

Originally posted by Raven Lunatic
I don't really think it will be a big problem. Right now, Biggio is making somewhere around 8-10 mil a season, and Reynolds is making about 7 mil a season. Both of them will have their contracts come up within a year or two, as I recall, so that will be a lot of cap space that can be used to sign guys like Oswalt
Yes, it does bother me that McClane is not willing to poney up the dough necessary to put us over that hump, but thankfully this team has one of the best farm systems in the league, so he can get away with it.

Re-signing guys does not ensure improvement.

Moreover, there is no salary cap in baseball, I assume it was a mistake on your part.

Also, we shed ourselves of Astacio's and Williams' contract this off-season, and who did we add?

Our last major FA signing was Doug Drabek and Greg Swindell WAY back in 1993.

[Raven Lunatic]

Originally posted by kidrock8


Re-signing guys does not ensure improvement.

Moreover, there is no salary cap in baseball, I assume it was a mistake on your part.

Also, we shed ourselves of Astacio's and Williams' contract this off-season, and who did we add?

Our last major FA signing was Doug Drabek and Greg Swindell WAY back in 1993.

We have an excellent team as it is right now. Do you disagree that it will be title contenders for many years if we can keep it together?

My cap comment was based on the fact that McClane puts a "cap" on Hunsicker which is around 60-65 mil.

Concerning this season, we lost Astacio's and Williams's contracts and we extended Billy Wagner and Lance Berkman. I have no problem with slowly losing our expensive contracts and extending our young guys. FA signings are not quite so necessary when you have young players coming up behind them. I am quite confident that after this next season is over, we will all have forgotten how mad we were when Alou and Castilla were allowed to leave. Ward will produce, and Ensberg will hit at least as well as Castilla.

You cannot judge an owner/GM on how many major FA acquisitions they have made. Like you say, we haven't had a major one since '93. And what has happened since then? 4 divisions championships.

I'll take it.

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally posted by kidrock8

Also, we shed ourselves of Astacio's and Williams' contract this off-season, and who did we add?

OK, I'll ask again: WHO SHOULD WE HAVE SIGNED??? I'm "not a GM" either, but it's simple to look over the FA signings this offseason & tell us what the 'Stros should have done differently.

It's real easy to constantly complain & point out negatives, how about providing a solution to the (perceived) problem?

Originally posted by kidrock8
You must not remember that Cleveland once had a payroll of close to 90 million dollars.

The key word is "once". Cleveland overspent for a number of years, despite the revenue increases from The Jake, & are now having to cut payroll & operate under a budget.

[Major]

Youth is great to have on the team, but lets face it, these kids simply dont have the playoff experience YET to get us to the World Series.

I don't know about that. In our lineup, Bagwell, Biggio, Ausmus, Hidalgo, Ward, and Berkman have all been to the postseason, most of them several times. That's six starters, which is more offensive experience than most teams, I think.

In terms of starting pitching, Reynolds, Miller, Mlicki all have postseason pitching experience and the latter two (in their first playoff years) performed very well. Oswalt and Hernandez are question marks, but they are both potential super-stars, and I don't really worry much about either one.

Bullpenwise, Wagner has plenty of experience (maybe not-so-good experience, though). Dotel and Cruz were there last year. I don't know whoelse is even in our bullpen, so I can't comment on those.

I think there's a good mix of experience and youth on this team. The only true "rookies" on the team really are Everett, Ensberg and Carlos Hernandez.

I predict 108 wins this season. :D

[Raven Lunatic]

Also, Oswalt was abso-freaking-lutely CLUTCH in his pitching performances on the US gold medal winning Olympics baseball team. Personally, I think there would be more pressure playing for the entire nation than playing for one city.

[SamCassell]

I don't think its a matter of know-how. As someone pointed out, it's the Hun that makes baseball decisions anyway, not Drayton (usually). To me, if boils down to having the desire to win at all costs, or trying to turn a profit while staying competitive. The Stros have taken the latter course, and I can't say I blame them. If you can milk the fan base and turn a profit, while keeping a respectable team on the field, why not? It makes good business sense, especially in the short-term.

[bobrek]

O.K....For the last 5 years, year in and year out the Astros have been competitive except for 2000 which was an anomaly. The Astros have been voted the top organization (top to bottom) in baseball. McLane has invested HEAVILY in the minor league system. The Astros have the best presence in South America (in particular, Venezuela). Their minor league system is one of the best in the game. All of that takes quality people and the owner's money. Perhaps if the Astros chose to invest in free agency, we would not be seeing outstanding young talent like Carlos Hernandez or Richard Hidalgo. If the Astros invested heavily in free agency, they may not have had the talent to make the trade for Randy Johnson (Freddy Garcia was talent from their baseball academy).

Look at this team - they lose Kile, Johnson and Hampton, yet don't miss a beat because they have the quality minor league system as well as scouts which enable them to keep finding talent. Miller and Oswalt were not high draft picks.

The title of this thread is ridiculous. With the exception of 2000 the Astros have played championship caliber baseball for the past 5 years. Obviously we'd like to see some playoff wins. They have had and currently have a championship caliber team. Would you rather see them add 10-20 million to the payroll at the expense of their minor league system?

The Astros have had the uncanny ability to replace quality with quality. My guess is that when all is said and done, the LF and 3B production will be quite similar to 2001 at a fraction of the cost. When Biggio is ready to retire, Chris Burke will probably be ready to replace him. When Bagwell is gone, Jason Lane may move into the OF and Ward move to 1B. When Ausmus is gone, John Buck will step in. And all the while, their minor league system will be staffing players to replace Lane, Burke and Buck.

Keep in mind that holding onto some free agent money enables a team like Houston to make the big late season trade.

Sorry for the long post, but the constant complaints against the ownership of a team that perenially makes the playoffs as well as having one of the top (if not the top) minor league systems in baseball grates my nerves.

[Drewdog]

Originally posted by bobrek
They have had and currently have a championship caliber team.

Do they have a competitive team that might make the playoffs? Yes.
Are they World Series material right now? No.

I think if the team can stay together like I have said before, in 2-3 years we will be one of the best teams in baseball period.

I dont see what is wrong with the thread title. Sure he invests lots of time/$$$ in the farm system, we have one of the best in baseball. But like Oakland, I fear that our younger talent are going to bid adeu for MUCH greener pastures out there when contract time comes around. Do you think that Drayton can afford all of the talent we are grooming in the minors??

With our current payroll, and if the players we have keep getting better, like Oakland, we are merely a farm team for the richer teams in the league.

[haven]

I agree mostly with the "Astros organization defenders" (especially as regards Alou and Castilla... paying big money to aging veterans is a good way to end up like the Orioles), but I do have one question:

Isn't it true that the Astros actually rank higher on revenue charts than they do in payroll? I was under the impression that they turned a nice profit last year. While one could argue that baseball is a business, and therefore should be profitable, that's a little out of synch with reality. Baseball seems more of a prestige symbol for rich men than anything else. Or perhaps a hobby for them. And as such, they make most of their money in the increasing valuation of the teams, not revenue.

If this is true, then McClane could be considering to "stiffing" the team when compared to other franchises. I completely agree that fiscal responsibility is necessary and that he isn't obligated to throw away his money... but I also think that is the above is true, then we need a new owner who plays by the same rules as everyone else.

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally posted by bobrek

...the constant complaints against the ownership of a team that perenially makes the playoffs as well as having one of the top (if not the top) minor league systems in baseball grates my nerves.

Amen. It basically boils down to: some people just like to b*tch, no matter the reality of the situation, & no amount of discourse will change their minds.

[Drewdog]

The day we win the World Series with a $65 million dollar payroll, is the day I will take each and every one of you out to Tony's for dinner.

With the new era of baseball economics getting out of hand, there is no way in hell we can keep up with the higher payroll teams.

[Roc Paint]

We have one of the best starting 5s in baseball to go along with three of the top young hitters in the game in Hildalgo, Berkman, and Ward. Throw in a shortstop with defensive skills this city has never seen before. Mix in a couple of savey vets in Bagwell and Biggio that could be headed for break-out years. A bench that is deep and very versital with good speed and great veteran leadership. The bull-pen doesn't look bad either when you have a kid who could be starting to go along setup men Cruz and Dotel, throw in the best closer in baseball, and I think we might be headed in right direction. :confused:
I forgot to metion one of the top teachers in the game, and the very best general manager in Hunsicker.
I think Drayton's doing a pretty good job. :)

[Puedlfor]

The comparison to Oakland isn't necesarily valid, because Oakland has a 35 million dollar cap on the payroll or thereabouts. The only reason Oakland stays competitive is because Billy Beane is a genius. The Astros are not quite so hamstrung by lack of revenue as the A's are.

[bobrek]

Drewdog

Unlike basketball, football and hockey, any baseball team that makes the playoffs has a realistic shot at winning the World Series. If the Astros (or any team) have enough talent to win their division (don't forget, last year they had the BEST record in the national league), they certainly have enough talent to win the World Series.

I assume that you think they were a World Series caliber team last year. This season, their pitching should be better. Their bench looks like it will be better and, I truly believe their everyday lineup will be as good as last year's team.

Think about it, of their current starting lineup only Berkman had a better than expected year last year. Ausmus and Hidalgo were noticeably down. Biggio and Bagwell were close to their normal production. Their bench was not very good. Merced had some big hits, but that was about it. Blum, Zaun, Lugo and Hunter should be better than Truby, Eusebio, Hayes and Barker.

Alou had a great year through the middle of August. He hit .226 in September and .250 in October with a .754 OPS (each month). he'll be missed, but Ward should suffice.

Last year's starting rotation was Elarton, Reynolds, Miller, Lima and Bottenfeld (after Dotel was moved to the bullpen) to start the season. Oswalt, Hernandez and Mlicki replace Elarton, Lima and Bottenfeld. I certainly feel better about that.

Haven

I believe the Astros are one of the team that "lost" money according to MLB, but doesn't Arthur Andersen do their books? :)

[Puedlfor]

Last year's starting rotation was Elarton, Reynolds, Miller, Lima and Bottenfeld (after Dotel was moved to the bullpen) to start the season. Oswalt, Hernandez and Mlicki replace Elarton, Lima and Bottenfeld. I certainly feel better about that.

And therein lies the difference between this years team and last years.

Even if our young pitching falters, and Reynolds and Mlicki stumble throughout the season - it STILL won't be as bad as the train-wreck that our staff was last year at the start of the season.

[Drewdog]

Originally posted by bobrek
I assume that you think they were a World Series caliber team last year. This season, their pitching should be better. Their bench looks like it will be better and, I truly believe their everyday lineup will be as good as last year's team.


Dont get me wrong, I feel damn good about this season, and think that we definitely have playoff potenetial. I just worry about the future and how the team will be able to keep all of these wonderful young prospects with Drayton's penny pinching buget ways.

Abvove all, Jimy Williams was the BIGGEST aqusition we made this offseason. I just love the guy. He took a team that consisted of basically Nomar, Pedro, and role players, all the way to the ALCS when nobody thought they had a chance in hell. His coaching abilities can not be underestimated. I think he will make a huge difference this season.

[JayZ750]

Originally posted by Drewdog
With the new era of baseball economics getting out of hand, there is no way in hell we can keep up with the higher payroll teams.

This is a reflection of the current state of the league and not the current state of our owner. Everyone (except the players) pretty much agree that a slary cap can only be a good thing for the sport. As is, we still have the possibility of keeping up with the higher payroll teams year in and year out anyway.

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally posted by JayZ750

Everyone (except the players) pretty much agree that a slary cap can only be a good thing for the sport.

Yeah, it's done wonders for the quality of play in the NFL. Give me TV/radio revenue sharing, a salary floor, & the luxury tax.

[JayZ750]

Originally posted by Buck Turgidson
Yeah, it's done wonders for the quality of play in the NFL. Give me TV/radio revenue sharing, a salary floor, & the luxury tax.

Well some kind of "regulations" are definitely needed. And I definitely wouldn't mind seeing some more parity in baseball anyway.

[Major]

Yeah, it's done wonders for the quality of play in the NFL. Give me TV/radio revenue sharing, a salary floor, & the luxury tax.

Say what you want about the NFL, but every team has an equal opportunity to be successful. And no, it's not simply luck.

As for a luxury tax / revenue-sharing, you'd think everyone would be happy with that. The players association used to say that was a great idea (when the owners wanted a salary cap). Well, now their tune has changed. Now, they don't feel there's a competitive balance problem, and there's no need for additional revenue sharing.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/0326/1358482.html

Owners say baseball is losing hundreds of millions of dollars annually and has a competitive-balance problem. They have proposed a vast increase in revenue sharing and a 50 percent luxury tax on the portions of payrolls above $98 million.

...


Players are skeptical of management's claims of losses and haven't agreed that competitive balance is a problem. The union doesn't want to drain the high-revenue teams of money they would otherwise spend on salaries, and it has no interest in a luxury tax that would slow the increase in salaries.


Who the hell DOESN'T think competitive balance is a problem? I'd like to see the person who argues NYY doesn't have an advantage over Montreal.

[MadMax]

Originally posted by bobrek
The Astros have won division title 4 of the last 5 years. It was not due to a lack of money that the Astros faltered in the playoffs. For the most part, the hitting has been outstanding in the regular season and terrible in the postseason. The pitching has been good in the regular season and very good during the postseason.

Although the Astros could certainly use Johnson, Hampton and/or Kile, the lack of those players has not seriously affected the Astros in their postseason defeats. You certainly can't complain about the pitching performances of Miller or Mlicki against the Braves.

This is the first season that the Astros have lost a significant position player (Alou) in the past 5 years. While Maclane may not have made moves to keep players, he has not been hesitant to obtain players (e.g. Astacio and Johnson).

I haven't read this entire thread yet...I got to this one and stopped because it's so dead on!! It's not like the Astros haven't had the talent to get to the NL Championship or even to the World Series...he's put a team out on the field that is easily capable of doing so. They finished with the best record in the NL last year...and in 98 they had the second best record in the NL.

McLane can not go out there and swing the bats for them in the playoffs...he can't make Dierker avoid pinch hitting Chris Truby in key situations...he can't help Lugo field the damn ball. He put a quality team on the field...the blame doesn't go to management, but rather to the players and coaches. The organization was named Baseball Organization of the Year last year...it's very well run.

oh, yeah..and one more thought...anybody else remember how bad this franchise was BEFORE Drayton was the owner??? This team NEVER participated in free agency (except to lose players!) prior to McLane...they never made big trades...they won their division twice in about 30 years. Since McLane has taken ownership, the franchise is definitely much improved. Management is as good as it's ever been.

[JBIIRockets]

All I know is this: If the Astros are forced to lose Oswalt in his prime because McLane will not pay him what he is worth like they did to Mike Hampton, I will burn all of my Astros periphenelia (sp?)...which consists of a fitted hat.

We will see what McLane is made of when it is time to pony up long term to Oswalt. This guy is going to be a legend. His demeanor does not hurt him either. His intense facial movements on the mound are awesome.

It is one thing to lose hitters like Seattle did with Griffey and A-rod but they still had pitching, which is the most important part of baseball. As a result, the Mariners are still a good team.

Finally, when McLane did not sign Hampton, it seemed to tell the public that winning a championship wasn't important to Mclane. Well Drayton, you have one more chance with Oswalt to show Astros fans that you do desire to build a champion. Don't let us down.

Or my hat will be a pile of ashes.

[Behad]

Originally posted by JBIIRockets
Finally, when McLane did not sign Hampton, it seemed to tell the public that winning a championship wasn't important to Mclane. Well Drayton, you have one more chance with Oswalt to show Astros fans that you do desire to build a champion. Don't let us down.

Or my hat will be a pile of ashes.

It could be that McLane was informed of the stockpile of young pitchers we had coming up, and wanted to save his money for them instead of Hampton.

Just a guess.

[bobrek]

Originally posted by JBIIRockets
All I know is this: If the Astros are forced to lose Oswalt in his prime because McLane will not pay him what he is worth like they did to Mike Hampton, I will burn all of my Astros periphenelia (sp?)...which consists of a fitted hat.

We will see what McLane is made of when it is time to pony up long term to Oswalt. This guy is going to be a legend. His demeanor does not hurt him either. His intense facial movements on the mound are awesome.

It is one thing to lose hitters like Seattle did with Griffey and A-rod but they still had pitching, which is the most important part of baseball. As a result, the Mariners are still a good team.

Finally, when McLane did not sign Hampton, it seemed to tell the public that winning a championship wasn't important to Mclane. Well Drayton, you have one more chance with Oswalt to show Astros fans that you do desire to build a champion. Don't let us down.

Or my hat will be a pile of ashes.

You do recall that Hampton decided he would not negotiate with Houston and wanted to investigate free agency don't you? Because of that, the Astros decided they could not risk losing Hampton via free agency and getting nothing in return as they did with Randy Johnson(besides, they were afraid their "fans" might burn their hats).

The Astros received a pretty fair pitcher named Dotel in that trade. They also received Roger Cedeno which allowed them to trade for a gold glove catcher. They also forced the Mets to take Derek 'Operation Shutdown' Bell off their hands in that trade.

The Mets offered Hampton a boatload of money to sign with them but he refused. Rather than negotiate with a couple of contenders (Astros, Mets), Hampton went with that perennial playoff contender, Colorado.

You seem to imply that the Astros are not a "good team" (based on your Seattle comparison). You do realize that in the past 5 years the Astros have won more divisional titles than any other major sports team in Houston history? You do realize that it has been a lack of HITTING in the playoffs which has hurt Houston?

When you're ready to burn that hat, let me know, I'll send you the matches.

[jev6515]

As long as the New York Yankees keep pushing for every single all-star and progressing towards the $200 million mark, baseball will continue to suck. The Astros are a well run team. No middle market team will win the big one until there is a cap put in place. The Arizona Diamondbacks are pushing $100 million but for how much longer. We heard about the trouble this team was in financially a couple of years ago. Letting Alou go was for the better. Sure I love the guy (I hate that he is in our division), but he has been holding back another talent...Daryll Ward. Overall you should be very pleased with the new guys in the lineup. I do believe this is our year and make my prediction known now 'Stros vs. Yanks for the Series.

[Major]

All I know is this: If the Astros are forced to lose Oswalt in his prime because McLane will not pay him what he is worth like they did to Mike Hampton, I will burn all of my Astros periphenelia (sp?)...which consists of a fitted hat.

We will see what McLane is made of when it is time to pony up long term to Oswalt. This guy is going to be a legend. His demeanor does not hurt him either. His intense facial movements on the mound are awesome.

Every good life-long Astro that's wanted to stay has pretty much been resigned. Hampton and Kile didn't want to stay. In the last few years Drayton ponied up for Bagwell, Biggio, Lima, Reynolds, Wagner, and Hidalgo.

[haven]

We will see what McLane is made of when it is time to pony up long term to Oswalt. This guy is going to be a legend. His demeanor does not hurt him either. His intense facial movements on the mound are awesome.

K/BB ratio is the #1 predictor of future success for rookie pitchers. Oswalt's was among the best ever. Hypothetically, if he improves, he should be one of the top 10 pitchers ever. I don't really think that'll happen... simply because I want to be cautious.

But what if it does? he'd cost A-rod type dollars to resign. Would he still be worth it for a mid-market team? I'm not so sure. There is a point when it's best to make the Mariner's decision and invest elsewhere.

Of course, a pitcher like that could also turn a mid-market team into a large market team.