Astros '01: Choke City III

[Baqui99]

Another awesome game by the Astros. I for one hope we keep losing. We don't deserve to be in the playoffs with the way we've been playing. It's amazing to see how the hell all of our players can slump at the same time.

Jeff "Windmill" Bagwell is trying to win the game with one swing every time up. Alou stopped hitting homers in like July. Hidalgo is sitting on his new contract. Biggio is looking like his age. Lugo boots grounders like there's no tomorrow.

As for the pitching staff, how can we expect to win when we've got losers like Ron Villone, Dave Mlicki, and Tim Redding taking the mound? Mike Jackson is absolutely horrible. Mike Williams and Dotel are burned out. Shane Reynolds is inconsistent as usual.

Some heads will roll this fall if we continue to lose our way out of the playoffs. This has gotten to the point where it is funny. THE ASTROS SUCK!

[Houstone]

Yeah the Astros are really suking, I'm kinda getting frustatrated.

[francis 4 prez]

At least we didn't give up a homer to Bonds.

But other than that, we are sucking so hard it's not even funny. I mean damn, not one damn part of the team is performing. At least St. Louis somehow lost.

[JayZ750]

I too think the Astros suck.

[Elvis Costello]

The Astros are better off not making the playoffs at this point. We are in full collapse mode and backing into a series with Arizona and their pitching staff would only further the humilation.

[pooh222]

I actually thought the Astros might do something this year. Boy was I wrong. The Astros have been looking very pathetic lately. I'm not going to watch them anymore, it's a waste of time. I'm ready for the Rockets to start playing.

[Stone Cold Hakeem]

Nice to see the Astros have such durable fans.

[NIKEstrad]

The bats have decided to hit...down 11-3, now it's 11-7, 2nd and 3rd, 1 down.

C'mon Doggy!!!

[ROXRAN]

sigh....:(

[Baqui99]

Originally posted by Stone Cold Hakeem
Nice to see the Astros have such durable fans.

Nice to see the Astros have such durable players. :)

[Drewdog]

Damn you guys need to chill the hell out.

For a team that sucks, we have the best record in the National League (without a solid #1 starter). A team that is close to a playoff spot really sucks :rolleyes:

ITS CALLED A SLUMP FOLKS. The Astros hit it at the worst possible time (the end of the season). As evidenced by the final at bat in the bottom of the 9th, we can still swing the bats, its just a matter of time.

Given our pitching situation, we should be damn thankful that we have come this far.

Give me a break FAIR WEATHER HOUSTON FANS........

[Kim]

I have no problem with them pitching around Bonds. I do have a problem with the fact that he ended up scoring 3 runs with one official at-bat. Ideally, imo, fans want to see the Astros win AND Bonds hit a homer. The problem is neither is happening. Pitching around him is not to spite his record chase, but is strategic move in order to enhance your chances of winning the game. Obviously, the strategy has failed horribly the last two games. I say go after him tomorrow. Maybe he'll hit one out, and maybe the Stros can win one.

[R0ckets03]

Hey atleast you guys will stop whining about the Astros choking in the playoffs. This year they have started to do it before the playoffs.

THE ASTROS ARE JUST PATHETIC!

GO YANKEES!!!!!!!!



#1 Yankee Bandwagoner :)

[Houstone]

Originally posted by Drewdog
Damn you guys need to chill the hell out.

For a team that sucks, we have the best record in the National League (without a solid #1 starter). A team that is close to a playoff spot really sucks :rolleyes:

ITS CALLED A SLUMP FOLKS. The Astros hit it at the worst possible time (the end of the season). As evidenced by the final at bat in the bottom of the 9th, we can still swing the bats, its just a matter of time.

Given our pitching situation, we should be damn thankful that we have come this far.

Give me a break FAIR WEATHER HOUSTON FANS........

All the Astros fans are panicing, there runing in the streets screaming. OMG:D

[Raven Lunatic]

Originally posted by Baqui99
As for the pitching staff, how can we expect to win when we've got losers like Ron Villone, Dave Mlicki, and Tim Redding taking the mound?

Yeah, Astros don't deserve to go to the playoffs because they got injured. No <b>playoff</b> team would <i>ever</i> get injured during the season. Getting injured is for chumps.

Come on, some of the guys may be in slumps, but 3/5's of what the starting rotation should be are injured for the rest of the season. Mlicki, Redding, and Villone have performed <b>more</b> than admirably in their place, and we should be thankful for that.

As for the bats.......well.....it is the Astros. They have had problems in the past hitting late in the season, and this season is no different. But just because they have timed their worst stretch of season towards the end does not mean that they don't deserve to go to the playoffs. If we have a good enough record to get into the playoffs, then we deserve to go.

<i><b>We will have a good enough record to get into the playoffs.</i></b>

[Lynus302]

I went to the game tonight. It was embarrassing on three counts:
1) The way we played. Biggest waste of 4 hours ever in my life.

2) The way the fans acted by booing our pitchers when they pitched around or walked Bonds.

3) The way everyone cheered for Bonds. I guess we became the San Francisco Astros and no one told me.

[Baqui99]

Originally posted by Lynus302
I went to the game tonight. It was embarrassing on three counts:
1) The way we played. Biggest waste of 4 hours ever in my life.

2) The way the fans acted by booing our pitchers when they pitched around or walked Bonds.

3) The way everyone cheered for Bonds.

3) Deal with it, man. Just about the whole damn country is rooting for Barry. It's helped take our nation's mind off of all the distractions.

2) As far as booing, they are right. Walking Bonds has come back to hurt the Astros during the last two games. Maybe it's time to start using a different strategy. Walking him isn't working.

1) Sorry you had to witness this pathetic display of what the Astros tried to pass off as baseball. Maybe Dierker ought to try the old "win one for the gipper" speech. :)

[Lynus302]

Originally posted by Baqui99
3) Deal with it, man. Just about the whole damn country is rooting for Barry. It's helped take our nation's mind off of all the distractions.

2) As far as booing, they are right. Walking Bonds has come back to hurt the Astros during the last two games. Maybe it's time to start using a different strategy. Walking him isn't working.

1) Sorry you had to witness this pathetic display of what the Astros tried to pass off as baseball. Maybe Dierker ought to try the old "win one for the gipper" speech. :)

3) Like hell. The fact the my hometown Astros were making some GOOD noise had me excited. The fact that the 'Stros had come from damn near the bottom of the division to lead it by 5 games had me excited. The fact that Oswalt had become the terror of the National League had me excited. The fact that a star from another team is breaking a record is not lost on me, mind you, but I'm not going to freaking cheer for his ass when he is playing against my team.

2) I don't think they're right. They pitched to him an awful lot and only walked him intentionally once. Keep in mind that it was Redding doing most of the pitching; he's good, but he's no star. I saw several pitches that looked like strikes to me get called as balls when Barry came up to bat. Could it be because Bud Selig was in the house the umps were giving some preferential treatment? Nah.

1) Woohoo! I agree.

[Kim]

An excerpt from ESPN:

http://www.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/caple_jim/1258994.html

Perhaps, but the three runs he scored Wednesday after being walked also represented the margin of victory.

"If you walk him three times and he winds up scoring each time, then you end up losing," Astros manager Larry Dierker said. "And if you pitch to him and he hits a home run but you win, what difference does the home run make?"

Mind you, Dierker said that before the game. So things didn't go exactly according to plan for the struggling Astros. As is often the case when teams face Bonds.

[heypartner]

<h3>Alright, I am not an Astros Fan</h3>

But let's make one thing clear on this website, dammit

<h1>There was no Choke City II</h1>

The Rockets won the damn title after the Oilers blew their big lead to Buffalo, and Fran Blinebury was a jump-off-the-bandwagon idiot for using the Rockets as his first big Choke City statement in 1994!!!!

Do not mention Choke City on this website again! Go to another Houston sports fan site to say that.

Say what you want in the hangout...but don't ever say Choke City II or III here again, as if Blinebury was correct about the '94 Rockets or the '95 "heart of a champion." and Clutch was wrong about naming this site.

"Don't EVER underestimate the heart of a champion." This is an outragious thread title on this site..


who is the author....poooof....no second chance!!!

[Elienator]

Just a question...

Didn't the Yankees enter the postseason last year or the year before in a rather large slump? They still won it all that year. Have some hope.

[VesceySux]

Ugh. I hate fair weather fans. I'll stick with my team through thick and thin. Sure, I may have loathed the Oilers after the '93 disaster against Frank Reich, scourge of Houston, but I got over it. I agree that the Astros haven't played well enough lately to justify being a playoff team, but they'll get in. Have a little faith. San Fran is still 3 games behind for a wild card birth...

[Groogrux]

Point me to the post where someone stated they weren't fans because the Astros currently suck.

You can say a team sucks (and if you don't believe this team sucks right now, you're an idiot) and still be a fan.

BTW, crispee, it's amazing how you could make my favorite post in one day (the Eddie Griffin/Cato one), and then make one of the dumbest I've seen.

[Baqui99]

Originally posted by crispee
<h3>Alright, I am not an Astros Fan</h3>

But let's make one thing clear on this website, dammit

<h1>There was no Choke City II</h1>

The Rockets won the damn title after the Oilers blew their big lead to Buffalo, and Fran Blinebury was a jump-off-the-bandwagon idiot for using the Rockets as his first big Choke City statement in 1994!!!!

Do not mention Choke City on this website again! Go to another Houston sports fan site to say that.

Say what you want in the hangout...but don't ever say Choke City II or III here again, as if Blinebury was correct about the '94 Rockets or the '95 "heart of a champion." and Clutch was wrong about naming this site.

"Don't EVER underestimate the heart of a champion." This is an outragious thread title on this site..


who is the author....poooof....no second chance!!!

Settle down, dude. I was just letting off some steam. Mind you, this is the same Astros team I used to watch after work every freaking day last summer. I watched them tear through the rest of the NL, and to see them choke like this brings back bad memories of Houston sports.

Remember this is not the first time that the Astros have struggled in October. We are 1-9 in the playoffs with Dierker as our manager. As far as saying that the Astros "suck," that's a perfectly appropriate comment from a frustrated Astros fan. I remember growing up I watched guys like Nolan Ryan, Jose Cruz, Mike Scott, Kevin Bass, Bill Doran, Glen Davis, etc. I have always been a die-hard Astros fan, and to see them fail like they're doing now is heart-breaking. Remember 1986?

[JBIIRockets]

Baqui99,

Your initial post was very nicely worded.

JBIIROCKETS

[BobFinn*]

<b><h1>Without the choke city article, there is no Clutch City</h1></b>

[dylan]

Originally posted by JBIIRockets
Baqui99,

Your initial post was very nicely worded.

JBIIROCKETS

Ahhh, young trolls in love. So, care to respond to any of my points in your other topic?

[DaDakota]

Regardless of all these arguments about semantics, the fact remains that they are choking.

However, even with the bad timing of the losing streak, they are still tied for first, and have the best record in the National league.

It is not a choke......YET !!!

DaDakota

[Desert Scar]

I was hearing last night that the Astros were likely to join only 1 other team in baseball to blow a 5 game lead with a couple of weeks left in the season. By any historical account, they are choking if you think their is validity in the term.

But the Astros have been one of the better teams over the last 10 years or so, even if it hasn't be reflected in the post-season success. It is still a lot better being a Stros fan than being a life-long Cubs or Redsox fans, or as someone else said, a Dodger fan over ther last 10 years (especially considering their payroll).

Also, the Bills-Oilers was defintely the biggest blown lead of any playoff game, I think maybe of ANY NFL game played period. The Rocket-Suns game 2 in 94 was close to the same for BB playoffs (blown 20+ point lead with like 10 minutes to go). It was after that ChokeCity headline that the Rockets played inspired (even Elie has remarked that whole thing fired them up and got them focused). I for one am glad for that ChokeCity headline, it may not have made a difference in helping make the Rockets determined to redefine their fate and prove to the world their internal mettle on the way to making ClutchCity happen, but I for one am glad we will never have to find out.

[VesceySux]

If they could just win tonight's game... Just one win away from the postseason (wild-card or division winner). C'mon, guys.

[DaDakota]

You know what, my optimisim is running slim.

If they squek in and have to face Randy Johnson and Schilling, it will be over all to quick.

They are seriously choking right now. You can see it in their eyes and approach to the game.

DaDakota

[Timing]

It's very disappointing to see people coming out of the woodwork now to bash the 'Stros. When they were winning there are probably 3/4 regular posters talking about the team. Now that they're on a tough losing streak people are all over them. I guess negativity always gets more attention.

The team has always had streaky hitting and they are obviously pressing, BUT there is no doubt the team is feeling the effects now of losing Astacio, Oswalt, and Carlos Hernandez. Losing those top pitchers just magnifies the other weaknesses on the team. Even the bullpen is getting rocked a little now after they were lights out for a long time. Hopefully they can regroup and kick some Cardinal ass this weekend.

GO 'STROS!!!

[JBIIRockets]

This slide by the Astros is alot like the 94 Rockets slide against the Suns.

When the Rockets choked away the first two home games vs the Suns, they were getting verbally battered by the Houston media.....

...and I personally was stunned becuase I thought the Rockets would have the killer instinct to take advantage after the Sonics lost to the Nuggets.

As a result the Rockets left Houston with their fans feeling disgusted. They knew the city was against them, so all they had was themselves. Going on the road to Phoenix turned out to be the best way to recover.

The Astros are in the same predicament right now. They get the chance to leave the distraction (which is the city of Houston and the fans). All they have is themselves. I think leaving town is the best thing for the team.

Baseball fans are about to learn a lot what kind of character this Astro team has. Will they crumble and quit (as they pretty much did in Game 3 vs the Giants)vs the Cards, or will they get together and realize that each player must play their best three games ever coming up, and determine that losing in this way is unacceptable.

The bottom line is that the Astros have a chance to recover just like the Rockets did. Will they take advantage? Who knows?

But I hope Clutch City II can be born.

[gettinbranded]

Originally posted by francis 4 prez
At least we didn't give up a homer to Bonds.



Huh?

[Behad]

Originally posted by JBIIRockets
Will they crumble and quit (as they pretty much did in Game 3 vs the Giants)vs the Cards, or will they get together and realize that each player must play their best three games ever coming up, and determine that losing in this way is unacceptable.

I don't think this team will ever quit, but crumbling under pressure has been a 5 year tradition. If this was the first time it happened, I would be more optimistic, but this the first week in October, which has been choke time for 4 of the past five Octobers.

This team is not doing anything we haven't seen before.

[gr8-1]

My question is, has this team quit? What are their chances of winning the division or making the playoffs?

[Behad]

Originally posted by gr8-1
My question is, has this team quit? What are their chances of winning the division or making the playoffs?

I really can't believe this is a team of quitters. Chokers, I can believe, but not quitters.

There is still a very realistic shot at making the playoffs as a wild card. To not make the playoffs, San Fran would have to win all three of their games and us lose all three. A tie for the wild card would be if we lose all three and they win two of three, or they win all three and we lose two of three.

The playoff game, in that scenario, would be in San Fran.

A single Astro win combined with a single Giant loss, and we're in.

The division crown is another matter. To win outright, we must sweep the Cardinals. Two wins, and there will be a one game playoff.

One win=pray for a Giant loss.

[DaDakota]

Well Gr-8 the chances are moot if they don't win any more games.

They need to win at least 2 out of 3 to tie for the division. Their magic number is 2 against the Giants, all they had to do was win 1 of the last 3 and they get in..but they choked them all.

Now, their chances are ok, but they are slumping at the worst possible time.

I rate the chances of them getting in to be 50-50, and the chances of them doing anything in the playoffs...very slim.

DaDakota

[Major]

<B>Two wins, and there will be a one game playoff. </B>

Actually, two wins gives us the division. Since both Houston and St. Louis then make the playoffs, they don't waste the time on the tiebreaker. Instead, they award the division and home-field advantage to the team with the better head-to-head record. We would have that at 9-7 if we win 2 of 3.

Amazingly, not a single team has clinched a playoff berth in the NL yet. St. Louis has clinched a tiebreaker game (if they lose out and San Fran wins out), but that's it.

[SamCassell]

Series Matchup:

Today - Miller (16-8, 3.45) versus Williams (15-9, 4.18)
Saturday - Villone (6-9, 5.81) versus Hermanson (14-13, 4.33)
Sunday - Reynolds (13-11, 4.47) versus Kile (16-10, 2.90)

If we want to grab a playoff spot without relying on help from the Dodgers, tonight is must-win. The rest of the weekend series doesn't shape up well for the Stros (unless by some miracle the Cards rest Kile on Sunday).

[Major]

Villone's arm is going to fall off the mound tomorrow. He pitched yesterday and tuesday in relief. I hope we win today.....

[SamCassell]

I noticed that shanna. Maybe they will move Shane up a day to give Villone more time? I don't think that's a great idea, either. A better option would be to call up a minor leaguer. Brian Williams isn't good, but at least he's got a fresh arm.

For the best chance of winning, though, I'd give the start to Dotel. He last pitched on Tuesday (1 inning) so he should be fresh if he doesn't pitch relief tonight.

[Sonny]

Hey Guyz,

Just wanted to let you know that you can call me if you want to find the bandwagon once we take 2 of 3 from the Cards and win the division this weekend so you can get back on. :D

Alou is playing great and Bagwell is warming up.

All we need if for Berkman to step up and get some key hits from Doggie and Vinny.

Tonight - Wade Miller will win it for us

Saturday - Its gonna be a tough game.

Sunday - Shane vs DK HUGE game Astros win the division. :D

Do not give up.

Is this how yall were acting in 93-94/94-95 when the Rox were down?

Go Astros!!!

[Major]

Yeah, bringing up a minor leaguer might not be a bad idea. It would also bring in someone who hasn't been around this disaster the last week or so.

If we win tonight and SF loses tonight (putting us in the playoffs), I saw screw it and play some scrubs all game on Saturday -- give Linebrink, Stone, Rodriguez each 3 innings or something. Let the bullpen rest, let the players rest. Maybe try to win Sunday w/ Shane, but don't mess him up by making him go on less rest.

Or better yet, save Shane for game #1 of the playoffs and pitch Redding or someone on Sunday. If Miller pitches today, he shouldn't pitch again until Wednesday (Game #2), Oswalt is hopefully ready for Game #3, but we don't have a Game #1 pitcher just yet.

That all assumes, of course, we make the playoffs first.

[Behad]

Originally posted by SamCassell
A better option would be to call up a minor leaguer

The minor league seasons ended September 11th. There is nobody fresh to call up.

[heypartner]

baquii

sorry, I was letting off steam too. I have always been annoyed with Houston fans and sports writers dragging the Rockets into ineptness anecdotes of the real losing teams in this city. The Astros always choke, and always will be chokers until they do otherwise. (btw: I'm not a baseball fan anymore, and grew up brainwashed by my older brothers, who grew up in California, to be LA fans. yikes! My house was split between Dodgers and Giants...sorry for coming into your venting fan thread). I did become an Oiler fan when I moved here, because I don't think you can really follow a football team w/o regional telecasts like you can baseball...at least not in the 10 yrs ago.

BobFinn*

I know you don't mean to say that the article inspired them to win???? keep it simple....the loss inspired them to win. They did not need inspiration from a sportswriter. imo, that is dissing the determination of a Dream...who already showed he could crush Magic Johnson's Lakers in their prime. The guy knew how to win, and never choked.

I take your comment to mean that the Chronicle sportswriters would not have been clever enough to come up with a name for championship city, had they first not said Choke prematurely. I'd agree with that.

Desert Scar,

There was no second Choke because the series wasn't over!! You can't be a choker until you are eliminated.

Hell if the Rockets blowing one non-elimination game is Choke II, what about '81 mini-playoff when the 'stros had a 2-0 lead on the Dodgers only to lose 3 games in a row....should that be Choke I.

[Behad]

Originally posted by Wink3Cat5


Is this how yall were acting in 93-94/94-95 when the Rox were down?

Go Astros!!!

If the Rockets had choked in the playoffs for three years previous to 1994, then yes, this is how we would have acted.

[Sonny]

Originally posted by shanna
Yeah, bringing up a minor leaguer might not be a bad idea. It would also bring in someone who hasn't been around this disaster the last week or so.

If we win tonight and SF loses tonight (putting us in the playoffs), I saw screw it and play some scrubs all game on Saturday -- give Linebrink, Stone, Rodriguez each 3 innings or something. Let the bullpen rest, let the players rest. Maybe try to win Sunday w/ Shane, but don't mess him up by making him go on less rest.

Or better yet, save Shane for game #1 of the playoffs and pitch Redding or someone on Sunday. If Miller pitches today, he shouldn't pitch again until Wednesday (Game #2), Oswalt is hopefully ready for Game #3, but we don't have a Game #1 pitcher just yet.

That all assumes, of course, we make the playoffs first.

I am going to assume you are right :D

That is a good idea to pitch with the bullpen on Saturday. We do not have a decent starter for that day anways.

Let me say for the record that I can not stand Ron Villone, Mr Choke. I am starting to think that he is Cato's white cousin.

Man he really blew it last night... oh well :rolleyes:

Rest of the bullpen is pretty solid and Dotel/Wagner will shut em down.

[SamCassell]

Originally posted by Behad

The minor league seasons ended September 11th. There is nobody fresh to call up.

It sounds like they are all fresh then, to me. I don't see why we would be prevented from calling up a guy just because his minor league season was over. In fact, I've heard of teams waiting until after the minor league playoffs were over to call someone up.

[Behad]

Originally posted by crispee
what about '81 mini-playoff when the 'stros had a 2-0 lead on the Dodgers only to lose 3 games in a row....should that be Choke I.

It was a three game series. We won the first, then lost the next two.

1986 was much tougher. Bob Knepper gives us a 3-0 lead going into the ninth, then the bullpen loses the lead, game tied...16 innings...aw hell, I can't continue. I saw every pitch of that game, and it still hurts too much.

[Behad]

Originally posted by SamCassell


It sounds like they are all fresh then, to me. I don't see why we would be prevented from calling up a guy just because his minor league season was over. In fact, I've heard of teams waiting until after the minor league playoffs were over to call someone up.

My point is that none of them has pitched since then, or at least none of the AAA or AA guys. Rust would be a definite factor.

[Sonny]

Originally posted by Behad


If the Rockets had choked in the playoffs for three years previous to 1994, then yes, this is how we would have acted.

We did have a tough time with Seattle in the Early 90's

Time for the Astros do beat their "Seattle" - Atlanta.

Prior to 1997 we had not been to the playoffs since 1986. They just needed some experience.... Have a little hope. :D

[Behad]

Originally posted by Wink3Cat5

Have a little hope. :D

Believe me, I have hope.

It's just become too routine to not expect it.

Let's take off the Astro colored glasses for a minute....Barry Bonds has a reputation as a playoff choker, and nothing he has done in the regular season will change that. The Braves won 10 divisional titles in a row, yet have one WS ring to show for it.

And every October since 1997, the Astro's bats have gone silent. Just like Bonds or the Braves, they are gonna have to win to shed that reputation. You can't wish it away, or pretend it doesn't exist.

[SamCassell]

Originally posted by Behad

My point is that none of them has pitched since then, or at least none of the AAA or AA guys. Rust would be a definite factor.

That's definitely true. Still I'd chance the rust before I threw Villone out there on 1 day rest or took a chance on Shane with 3 days rest. That's too much to ask out of either.

Like I said, Dotel should be given real consideration as Saturday's starter (assuming that the dream scenario of SF loss, Houston win doesn't occur tonight). I think he could give us 4 or 5 solid innings.

[Behad]

IMHO, Dotel has become such a dominate set up man because 1) he has accepted the role, even revelled in it, and 2) he does not hold back. He knows he will be out there 2 innings max, so he lets it fly on every pitch.

As a starter, two things could happen: He holds back, thus losing effectiveness, or he goes all out, in which case you will only get 2-3 innings out of him. I like your idea, I just don't think it will work.

[Sonny]

Originally posted by Behad


Believe me, I have hope.

It's just become too routine to not expect it.

Let's take off the Astro colored glasses for a minute....Barry Bonds has a reputation as a playoff choker, and nothing he has done in the regular season will change that. The Braves won 10 divisional titles in a row, yet have one WS ring to show for it.

And every October since 1997, the Astro's bats have gone silent. Just like Bonds or the Braves, they are gonna have to win to shed that reputation. You can't wish it away, or pretend it doesn't exist.

Good To Hear. We will win. :D

Braves are choke artist. They shell out the dough like NY but they just can't win the big ones. Five world series and only one ring. That is almost as bad as Buffalo.

BTW - technically the Braves didnt win the division in 1994 - Montreal was winning but they cancelled the World Series because of the strike.

[Behad]

Believe me Wink, I'm there for every Astros game. It's just too hard sometimes.

1980- 4 out of the 5 games goes to extra innings. I was still a teenager, so my heart could take it

1986- I spent game one in a restuarant called "The Jalapeno Tree" on Nasa Rd. 1, watching a masterpiece by Mike Scott. Glenn Davis goes yard in the fourth inning, and the place erupts!! Astros win, 1-0.

Game six....damn, I still can't relive it. My heart is weaker than in 1980 (probably from all the beer I drank during game 1)

1998 was our year. Playoff tested, Randy Johnson on the mound...and friggin Kevin Brown and his inhuman arm tortures me.

I'm tellin ya Wink, physically, I can't go on like this. In basketball, no matter what happens till the day I die, I'll always have 1994 and 1995. They can't take that away from me. Football....eh, I was never a big football fan. So that just leaves the Astros....

[Sonny]

I will give it to you man, you got the heart. Really stinks all those tough loses.

I am realatively new to the Astros compared to you. Started watching in the Early 90's around 1991 I think. (Only 12 then)

I am glad I missed all the heartbreak, makes it easier now.

The late 90's versus SD and ATL really sucked. I was not into the Astros as much as I am now. I was still a Baltimore Orioles fan. That is pretty much over with... :( (Bye Cal)

Astros are #1 now - don't miss a game.

Football is great too - I am still a Chicago Bears fan - I still have 1985. :D ( 6 yrs old! )

[BobFinn*]

Originally posted by crispee


BobFinn*

I take your comment to mean that the Chronicle sportswriters would not have been clever enough to come up with a name for championship city, had they first not said Choke prematurely. I'd agree with that.



Exactly what I meant.

[Desert Scar]

Originally posted by crispee
Desert Scar,

There was no second Choke because the series wasn't over!! You can't be a choker until you are eliminated.

Hell if the Rockets blowing one non-elimination game is Choke II.........

I was just defining choking as blowing the biggest lead late in a playoff contest. I don't know if anyone else has lost an NBA playoff game being up 20 with 10 to go, might have happened other times, but certainly not very often if it did (I think it may have happened recently in the Eastern conference but can't remember for sure who/where).

If you go by choking as having to result in elimination, then we could call Game 6 versus Utah in like 97 a choke city game, I think we were up by at least 10 with less than 10 minutes left. But obviously blowing late 10 point leads are near as common as 20 point leads, so it depends on how you look at choking.

Also, when I see the Stros choke, I don't think it is lack of effort (at least in previous playoffs). If anything for many of the players it may be because they try too hard and are too conscious about playing the game. Just become they and the coach can't handle the pressure doesn't mean they are quitters, two entirely different things.

Finally, the Rockets did take note (e.g., Elie's comments) of the ChokeCity headline. Not saying it made any difference, but they definetely took note of it and that Phx series still went down to a couple of key baskets, I am glad we don't have to relive history w/o the ChokeCity headlines.

[Desert Scar]

Oh, I think the Stros need to do all they can to take 2/3 from St. Louis. Facing Atl with 2/3 at home is a much, much, better proposition than having to beat CS and RJ twice in 5 games to have any chance.

The playoffs start today for the Stros, and the tiebraker is to their advantage. They still have as close to 50/50 chance of still winning the divsion. Unless one team wins the first 2, I would not throw away the last game (pull up a minor league pitcher) by any strech of the imagination. They also could end up having to play SF in an extra game if they fart around. Again, the Astros need to play like tonight is there last game.

[heypartner]

Desert Scar,

grrrrrrr....the Utah game was not a choke it was a bear hug. Besides, once you get christened as a Clutch team, you are Clutch forever, like a Knight is a Knight forever.

The Suns game was a major choke. I agree.

This is not really a semantics thing...because the media was actually calling the Rocket's chokers...not just the city. They took all the bad playoffs performances of the Oilers and Astros and equated the Rockets to that for one bad collapse. And this despite the fact the star of the team proved against Magic and Seattle time and time again that he personally never chokes in big games.

anyhow...what surprised me about the thread title was that I had never heard of such a thing as Choke City I or II...like it is accepted as history, rather than completely refuted by history...hence Clutch City.

imo, Clutch City was a symbolic gesture to remove the Rockets from the choke tag ever again. In fact, they own the copyright, so even if the Astros turn around and win the world series, they cannot wear Clutch City t-shirts in their victory parade unless the Rockets deem them worthy enough. :D

isn't that right Clutch!

[Manny Ramirez]

It could be worse...all of you could be Red Sox fans!:(

[francis 4 prez]

Originally posted by gettinbranded


Huh?

10:26 on 10-03-01 was when I made the "at least they didn't give up a homer to Bonds" statement, about a day before he hit #70. If you're gonna quote me to make me look stupid, at least attempt to do it right. Better luck next time.