In the end, Should we really be surprised that the Astro bats are crumbling now

[JBIIRockets]

Two foul outs to end a game, what a whimper. Maybe you are not surprised.

As I was watching the game last night, my heart wasn't even broken when the game ended. It is because I am so used to seeing the offense crumble in the clutch games.

I have blasted Astro batters in the past for coming up small in the big games. AKA Bagwell and Biggio. Go ahead and add Vinny to the list. And even add, My favorite player, Alou. Alou is a clutch hitter, but since he is an Astro now he has the disease too.

Bottom line is this, The Astros so called "dangerous" offense continues to suck against good pitching. Ever so rarely do they break out against a good pitcher (against Matt Morris a week ago).

Look at what the team did in the playoffs. In 98, the Astros had their most powerful offensive team ever, and won the divsion with ease. But when the ultimate games came around, the offense choked against good pitching.

I WAS VERY SURPRISED.

In 99, Ken Caminiti returned to provide his clutch ability, and the team used that with a 6-1 victory over the Braves in Game one.

I thought the Astros had turned the corner. I was wrong.

The Astros lost the next three games because they were shut down by Millwood, and they could not get the big hit in Game 3, and Smoltz was in cruise control in Game 4.

I WAS SURPRISED.

Which leads us to now. It will not surprise me if the Astros don't make the playoffs this year. Being a fan, I have learned to expect the worst. It doesn't even bother me anymore.

If the Astros do make the playoffs, go up 2-0, and then lose the series in 5.

I WILL NOT BE SURPRISED.

[dylan]

Jesus, quit whining. You're like that @sshole at parties nobody ever wants to talk to cause all he talks about is how he smart and superior he is.

Yeah the Astros might lose in the first round. Hell, they might not make it. But try to remembing that some people are enthusiastic and want to chear for their team regardless. I'll be really disapointed if they don't make it to the playoffs but I will chear for them in the future either way.

I mean, really, what was the point of your post? It seems like all you've posted the last several weeks is that the Astros suck, the Astros are gonna lose. People get tired of hearing it! Sheesh, and you wonder why you get no respect on the tz. It's cause you sound like a friggin broken record! Believe it or not, we get it: we know you have no faith in this team. But you can have no faith without loudly telling people every other friggin day....

[Major]

<B>Being a fan, I have learned to expect the worst. It doesn't even bother me anymore.
</B>

Then you're not a fan. If you don't care, stop watching them.

<B>Bottom line is this, The Astros so called "dangerous" offense continues to suck against good pitching. Ever so rarely do they break out against a good pitcher (against Matt Morris a week ago). </B>

And you clearly haven't been paying attention this year, because the Astros have sucked quite often against bad pitching, but they've really blasted some good pitchers this year. They've hit Shilling (twice), Johnson, Morris, Lieber, Maddux, etc very hard.

[Major]

BTW, can you name one NL offense that does hit good pitchers consistently better than ours? There's a reason they are called <I>good pitchers</I>.

[Elvis Costello]

Part of being a fan (well, being a fan of teams other than the Lakers and Yankees) is dealing with failure. You think Astro fans have cause to whine? Try being a Redsox, or a Cubs fan. The Astros have had a good season and the future looks promising with the possibility of a Braves-esque pitching staff. Still, I wish the Astros could at least win a playoff series. I am not even talking about winning a title..just one playoff series. The Astros are flawed team not because of some nebulous concept like clutch hitting, or whatever, but because they are slow and cannot manufacture runs. That is how you can get passed good pitching.

[RocksMillenium]

I'm not an Astros fan, but you guys ripping JBIIRockets have to look at it from both sides. Being a real fan is criticizing the team's fault as well as the positives. The team has won countless playoff spots and haven't done anything in the postseason. That isn't an opinion it's a fact, they underachieve, and you have to expect that some fans will be jaded. How do you think the Braves fans feel? 10 years in the playoffs and 1 world championship and countless playoff chokes. They criticize the team and have their faith in the team's performance shaken, that doesn't mean they're not real Rockets fans. The Astros every year tear apart good pitching but in big games, for whatever reason, they come up short. Maybe they have trouble adjusting their bats, maybe they get caught up in the spotlight of the playoffs, I don't know, but this team should have made at least one or two LCS appearances over the last few years. I don't consider what JB says "whining" just because it's negative, JB never said he wasn't an Astros fan, just basically that the Astros just seem to disappear down the stretch, and that is a serious concern. Painting a rosy picture doesn't solve their problems, and hopefully they can change their playoff fortunes this year. It has to be frustrating for some fans to see the Astros disappear against he pitching of Atlanta, and then watch the Braves crash and burn in the next round or two. Dealing will failure doesn't have to equal accepting failure.

[francis 4 prez]

Originally posted by Elvis Costello
. You think Astro fans have cause to whine? Try being a Redsox,

I know the Red Sox have been heart broken numerous times and haven't won since 1918, but I always wonder how it is any worse than what Astros fans have gone through. I mean unless you're like 90, you haven't been a fan for all 83 years since the last world series and the astros haven't exactly been lighting the league up since their inception. Hell, at least Boston knows what the World Series looked like as recently as 86 and they won a playoff series only, what, 3 (2?) years ago. And while Bucky Dent homers and Bill Buckner gaffs suck, we've lost series where 4 of the 5 games went to extras, lost 16 inning game 6's where we led 3-0 after 8, and have had bases loaded, no out situations in the tenth and didn''t win. I would say over the last 40 years, it's sucked worse to be a stros fan than a red sox fan. The public just likes to focus on Boston's misery more. Now cubs fan, I'm not sure. They haven't been to the series since '45 I think, so that's gotta suck.

[Groogrux]

I agree with JBIIRockets on this one (and I for one couldn't give a rat's dirty ass if he doesn't get respect on the tz...in my mind, respect on that board would be a bad thing). I won't be surprised either if the Astros don't even manage to make the playoffs. It's kinda like the way I felt about the Oilers. There were all those years that they were supposed to go all they way, but never did. Finally, you just realized that the chances of it happening were slim and none, and slim just left for Buffalo.

Also, really good bats find a way to beat the good pitching. We should have minimal problems hitting the baseball. Any lineup with a caliber equal to Biggio, Bagwell, Alou, Berkman, Hidalgo, and Castilla should have no problem scoring runs, a few pitchers withstanding (Johnson comes to mind). This year, if we lose the rest of the games 9-8, that's fine. It'll suck, but it will be expected with our current pitching state. There's no way we should have 0 or 1 run games.

Will I be surprised if the Astros' bats fail this year? No. Will I be disappointed? I couldn't tell you til it happens, but right now I'll say no. Does that make me any less of a fan than you? Hell no.

[dylan]

Originally posted by RocksMillenium
I'm not an Astros fan, but you guys ripping JBIIRockets have to look at it from both sides. Being a real fan is criticizing the team's fault as well as the positives. The team has won countless playoff spots and haven't done anything in the postseason. That isn't an opinion it's a fact, they underachieve, and you have to expect that some fans will be jaded.

They have made the playoffs 5 times, not countless. 5 times is not a lot. Of those times tey were favored once, maybe twice. In 1980 and 1986 the were the underdogs, in 97 they represented an extremely weak central division and were again the underdogs, in 98 they were favored, and I don't know if they were favored in 99. So there is no way you can say the underacheived regularly.


I don't consider what JB says "whining" just because it's negative, JB never said he wasn't an Astros fan, just basically that the Astros just seem to disappear down the stretch, and that is a serious concern. Painting a rosy picture doesn't solve their problems, and hopefully they can change their playoff fortunes this year. It has to be frustrating for some fans to see the Astros disappear against he pitching of Atlanta, and then watch the Braves crash and burn in the next round or two. Dealing will failure doesn't have to equal accepting failure.

I never said he was not a fan, I just daid he was an @sshole and I stand by that statement. He's the guy on the corner constantly preaching gloom and doom and almost acts upset when it's a nice sunny day. Have you read any of his posts in the last two weeks? If not, search for them. ALL he does and bitch and moan about how bad the astros are, they're gonna choke, etc. Saying it once wouldn't have been that big of a deal but they guy is a joke and a broken record. Life isn't about having to paint a rosy picture. Life, however, is also not about gloating and taking pleaure in other peoples hopes. This guy is a troll, pure and simple. He's like gettinbranded, only at least GB has a team he cares about.

JBIIRockets needs to get a new message, this one is worn out...

[PhiSlammaJamma]

There's a book called Great Expectations. It's a good read. Only one team can win it all. The rest of us go home losers each year. The odds are against success. It's all about the journey so I say enjoy it. Hasn't it been fun watching the rookies turn this team around. woo hoo! We went from last to first. That's an achievement. Sometimes getting there is an achievement in itself. I think it's been a wonderful season regardless of how it turns out. Let's just hope the story has a happy ending, but even if it doesn't, that doesn't mean the story is over, it's just got a few more chapters in it :)

[francis 4 prez]

I gotta agree with RocksMillenium on this one. I mean, I have almost zero faith that the Astros will win in the playoffs or ever be clutch, but does that mean I'm not a fan. No! When each new game starts, I'm still right there in front of the tv waiting for them to rip my heart out and show it to me. And I'll be there for the next game after that, because I've always got hope; I'm just pretty sure it will be proven unfounded. I can even understand the comment about not caring. After your team loses 6 of 7, you feel that way between games (or right at the end of the one you're losing), but you know you don't really mean it. It's just something you tell yourself to mitigate the pain of losing. When the next game starts, you'll be caring again. And it will still hurt to lose.

[Groogrux]

dylan,

What has there been in the last two weeks to be happy about with regards to the Astros? They've absolutely sucked.

[Major]

If you're not disappointed when your team loses, I don't think you're a fan. Isn't wanting the team to win part of being a fan? And if something doesn't happen that you want, isn't the result disappointment?

So if you're not disappointed with a loss, then you didn't really want the team to win. If that's the case, you're not a fan.

Just my opinion.

[Major]

<B>What has there been in the last two weeks to be happy about with regards to the Astros? They've absolutely sucked.</B>

Over the last two weeks, they've gone 7-6 against playoff contenders. Granted, it was very much skewed -- 6-1 and then 1-5, but over the 2 week period, they've been just fine. It's the last one week period that sucked. :)

[Groogrux]

Thank you shanna for clearing that up. You just made me realize that the last 21 years of my life have been meaningless...this whole time I thought I was an Astros' fan, but you've come along and cleared that up. Because I might not be disappointed if the Astros do the same exact thing they do every year they make the playoffs, I'm not a real fan.

I'll go ahead and assume that people who defend "fans" for booing the home team are not real fans either.

I guess we'll be watching hockey tonight.

[dylan]

Originally posted by Rocketman95
dylan,

What has there been in the last two weeks to be happy about with regards to the Astros? They've absolutely sucked.

Honestly, not much. Injury problems and cold bate have been a problem. However, in spite of their problems, and in spite of the Cardinalls success, we are still tied for the lead in the central. Who in the hell would have predicted that after last year? Who would have predicted the great success of Wade Miller, or Oswalt, or Carlos Hernandez? How about the amazing bat of Berkeman?

Or how about the fact that all we need to do is win one game against the Giants to make the playoffs?

I am not trying to say critisism of the astros is not allowed. There are certainly flaws in the team right now. But just mindlessly repeating the same drivel over and over again gets reall old to me. And maybe it's just me, in which case people are welcome to put me on their ignore list. :)

[Major]

<B>Thank you shanna for clearing that up. </B>

No problem, glad to help!

<B>You just made me realize that the last 21 years of my life have been meaningless...this whole time I thought I was an Astros' fan, but you've come along and cleared that up. </B>

So you're telling me you weren't disappointed after the '97, '98 and '99 playoffs? What was all the bitching about then?

Maybe you were a fan then and not now. :)

<B>I guess we'll be watching hockey tonight.</B>

You might be, but I'm a real fan! :)

[Groogrux]

God, I'm sick and tired of the "we were in last place" last year defense. Well, we shouldn't have been in last place last year. For about a month this year, we were playing like World Series contenders, and now we're horrible. I've already said that the injuries to our pitching staff would be to blame for 8 runs a game...that's fine, it sucks, but it's not the fault of the players. However, the bats going silent <B>AGAIN</B> is not acceptable. I don't care if we were in last place last year or not. We had a freakin' 5.5 game lead a week ago...a 4 game lead last Friday. The only reason the Cardinals haven't taken over first place is because we haven't played tonight.

[dylan]

oh, btw RM95, thanks for the info about the conservative law firm's opinion on Clinton. Interesting stuff. If, in fact, he didn't just get away by abuse of power then my opinion is very much changed. It was the abuse of power (or at least my perception of it) that bothered me more than the actual case...

[Major]

<B>that's fine, it sucks, but it's not the fault of the players. However, the bats going silent AGAIN is not acceptable.</B>

It seems you're quite disappointed. Either that, or you're bitching about something you don't care about....

:D

[Groogrux]

OK, I'm disappointed right now, however, I think all the disappointment I have has either been used or saved up with this debacle, the OU game on Saturday, the Packers not making the playoffs, and the Rockets not getting Marc Jackson. I just don't have room for what seems to be the inevitable. If that doesn't make me a real fan, then I don't think people who defend those who boo are real fans either.

dylan, are you serious about the Clinton thing? I honestly couldn't find one attorney, from the most liberal to the most conservative at the law firm who said they would waste their time pursuing that case if the guy's name hadn't been Clinton. I've actually changed my views on that a little since it happened, but that's for another thread.

[dylan]

Originally posted by Rocketman95

dylan, are you serious about the Clinton thing? I honestly couldn't find one attorney, from the most liberal to the most conservative at the law firm who said they would waste their time pursuing that case if the guy's name hadn't been Clinton. I've actually changed my views on that a little since it happened, but that's for another thread.

hehe, not to derail this too much more but since a troll started it I don't feel too bad...

Yeah, I'm trying to say I agree with you. My perception was that if you purjured yourself and you were a lawyer then you were disbarred pure and simple. Same thing for the Supreme Court. If, in fact, that is not true and lawyers frequently get away with it (which is bad but a topic for another time) then I dont really care that Clinton got away with it. Make sense?

[Major]

<B>I just don't have room for what seems to be the inevitable. </B>

So if the Astros do make the playoffs, you don't care if they win or not once they get there?

If you do, then you have to -- by definition -- be disappointed if they lose. Either that, or you wouldn't be excited if they win.

[Groogrux]

I'll be happy if I get to go to the Rockets' first game, but I won't be disappointed if I don't. I'll be happy if it rains today, but I won't be disappoited if it doesn't. I'll be estatic if I could eat Outback Steakhouse everyday for the rest of my days, but I won't be disappointed if I can't. I'll be estatic if the Dave Matthews Band new live CD is the best ever, but I won't be disappoited if it isn't. I'll be glad if Tampa Bay doesn't win another football game all year, but I won't be disappointed if they do. I'll be happy if Baylor beats A&M this weekend, but I won't be disappointed if they lose. I'll be happy if I get to spend Christmas with everyone I love, but I won't be disappointed if I don't. I'll be happy if I get a new bedliner for my truck, but I won't be disappointed if I don't. I really, really want the NHL Live 2002 for PS2, but I won't be disappointed if I never play it. I really, really, really want the Astros to win the World Series, but at this point, I won't be disappointed if they don't.

[Groogrux]

Actually, a more relevant "definition" would be that it's impossible to be disappointed at something, when the outcome was already inevitable.

For example, I think the movie <I>Riding in Cars With Boys</I> will suck ass much like the Astros' fans last night. Therefore, there is no possible way I can walk away from that movie feeling disappointed. However, I can walk away excited that I just saw a great movie.

I think the Astros' bats will collapse in the playoffs this year. Therefore, I can't be disappointed when that inevitability occurs. However, I can be excited if it doesn't.

That's a little better than your "you have to be disappointed if you'd be excited" definition.

[BobFinn*]

Good thing you guys weren't around when the Astros <b>REALLY</b> stunk in the '70's:(

[Major]

Most of your examples are not either-or situations.

For example, the DMB CD. There's a range of possibilities -- it could be great, good, mediocre, or suck. Each would give you a different range of emotions. If it sucks, you'll be disappointed, as you were the first day of getting the last CD.

With the Outback Steakhouse -- you could go everyday, somedays, rarely, or never. If you never go there again, you'd probably not like it. Same thing.

Examples with multiple outcomes don't really fit this situation because there's a range of possible emotions.

The examples that do fit, though, did work. Baylor vs. A&M. You wouldn't be disappointed if Baylor lost, but that's because you're not a Baylor fan in the way you're a UT or Astros or Rockets or Packers fan.

<B>Actually, a more relevant "definition" would be that it's impossible to be disappointed at something, when the outcome was already inevitable. </B>

I can agree with this. It also applies to the A&M game, more-or-less. :eek: However, that's not the case with the Astros. They still have the best record in the NL. It's not "inevitable" that they will lose in the playoffs. If it were, you wouldn't bother watching them.

<B>For example, I think the movie Riding in Cars With Boys will suck ass much like the Astros' fans last night. Therefore, there is no possible way I can walk away from that movie feeling disappointed. </B>

Sure you can. You're going in hoping that by some miracle it will be a decent movie, even though you don't expect it. When your hope doesn't come true, that's disappointment.

[JBIIRockets]

Originally posted by Rocketman95
I agree with JBIIRockets on this one (and I for one couldn't give a rat's dirty ass if he doesn't get respect on the tz...in my mind, respect on that board would be a bad thing). I won't be surprised either if the Astros don't even manage to make the playoffs. It's kinda like the way I felt about the Oilers

LOL. They can't take criticism over at the TZ. If you blast the Astros, they will blast the poster back.


Originally posted by Elvis Costello
The Astros are flawed team not because of some nebulous concept like clutch hitting, or whatever, but because they are slow and cannot manufacture runs. That is how you can get pass good pitching.

I agree with that, but I feel timely hitting is crucial if teams are going to win big games.

Originally posted by RocksMillenium
Being a real fan is criticizing the team's fault as well as the positives.I don't consider what JB says "whining" just because it's negative, JB never said he wasn't an Astros fan, just basically that the Astros just seem to disappear down the stretch, and that is a serious concern. Dealing will failure doesn't have to equal accepting failure.

You could not have defended my statements better. I am an Astros fan, if I wasn't, I would not waste my time posting about
them.

Originally posted by dylan
I just said he was an @sshole and I stand by that statement. He's the guy on the corner constantly preaching gloom and doom and almost acts upset when it's a nice sunny day. Have you read any of his posts in the last two weeks? If not, search for them. ALL he does and bitch and moan about how bad the astros are, they're gonna choke, etc.

Well, you have missed my numerous posts about Praising the Astros, especially Bagwell's defense. I have said over and over again he should win the Gold Glove. Nice try, but I don't bitch ALL the time. Oh, My opinions and observations make me an asshole. I did not think you were an asshole when you blasted me. Mix in better takes. Calling names is weak. :rolleyes:

[Major]

<B>LOL. They can't take criticism over at the TZ. If you blast the Astros, they will blast the poster back. </b>

Yeah, they have serious 'clique' problems at TZ.

Bottom line on "fans" to me is that they have to care if their teams win or lose -- that's it. But caring works both ways -- you can't be excited that they win and not care if they lose. You're disappointed when they lose. That's just a part of being a fan (in my opinion).

[Groogrux]

I guess the best way to put it is that I'm already disappointed in them. If they lose, that's what I'm expecting...I can't add any more disappointment to what I'm already feeling.

To me, a real fan is one that doesn't boo or condones booing when the team is doing what is best to win.

[DVauthrin]

this is embarrassing,

yes as fans we get frustrated when we lose but give me a break, some of you act as if we are the worst team ever assembled, if you are looking for that go to baltimore or somewhere else

I also hear how the offense has sucked every game, guys do go into slumps, its not like they can preconceive it happening if they could you would never see them. Plus i believe Saturday we scored 6 runs and a rare bad performance by dotel blew the game.

Let me say, im an optimist but im also a realist, thus i understand st.louis is using our pitching injuries and the absurd difference in our various strength of schedules at the end of the year to catch up. It bothers me to see the crazy extremist views like because of a bad stretch people think we may get shut out of the postseason mix, the point of a fan is supporting a team through thick and thin and while being frustrated is a part of it, it is a minor aspect and the bigger aspect of being a true fan is supporting a team when they are red hot or when they are ice cold.

Overall, I think we will be in the playoffs and if we can get ROY back healthy we can get to the World Series, but if we dont while ill be disappointed making the playoffs is nothing to be ashamed about, only one team can take home the grand prize.

[dylan]

Originally posted by JBIIRockets
You could not have defended my statements better. I am an Astros fan, if I wasn't, I would not waste my time posting about
them.

Again, I never once questioned your fandom or lack thereof. Well I maybe did indirectly when I said "at least GB has a team" or something like that but that was an exageration (sp?) I will readily admit.



Originally posted by JBIIRockets
Well, you have missed my numerous posts about Praising the Astros, especially Bagwell's defense. I have said over and over again he should win the Gold Glove. Nice try, but I don't bitch ALL the time. Oh, My opinions and observations make me an asshole. I did not think you were an asshole when you blasted me. Mix in better takes. Calling names is weak. :rolleyes:

Calling you an asshole may be weak but how's this: your online persona is an asshole. That any better? Or gee, if it really makes you feel better, you're not an asshole. You just make a lot of asinine posts. Let's see, over the last, oh, 3 months you have made ONE post that is at all positive about the Astros. I didn't check back earlier than that becaue you said in your own words on 09-03-01 that "Yes, I know that I blasted the Astros many times early in the season". So we'll call it one positive post in one year. So where is the "over and over", or "numerous posts" of which you speak? Is the BBS search feature broken? Must be...:rolleyes:

Again, please answere one question: why did you make your post? What was the point? Especially since you posted almost the exact same thing yesterday? All you wanted to do was be smug and superior. It just gets old reading the same **** over and over again...

[SamCassell]

fan2 (fn) n.
An ardent devotee; an enthusiast.

cheer·lead·er (chîrldr) n.
One who expresses or promotes thoughtless praise; an adulator.

A real fan doesn't have to always agree with the team or praise its players & management. A real fan is a devotee of his team, one who roots for the team to do well. But to me, in order to be "ardent" a real fan has to have some sort of vested emotional tie to the team - happy when they win, upset when they lose. Otherwise you're a cheerleader.

As for myself, I am extrordinarily happy with the performance of our young pitching staff this season. They've been terrific and have shown that good pitchers can perform well in Enron just like they can in any other park not named Coors Field. The play of the bullpen and the 5th, 6th, and 7th starters this year filling in for injuries has been outstanding. I have been disappointed in the combined effort of our offense in the second half of the season. It's not a mini-slump, it's a drought that has continued for almost 3 months. Even during our recently-ended winning stretch, it was consistantly good pitching and not hitting that was the cause. With a lineup of Bagwell, Berkman, Alou, Biggio, Hidalgo, and Castillo, playing in a hitter's ballpark. there is absolutely no way we should struggle on a consistant basis to score runs.

[PhiSlammaJamma]

You can lose and have a moral victory. There doesn't always have to be dissapointment when losing. If I'm rooting for a marathoner to win a race, as a fan, and he cramps up in the middle race, but still finishes a distant second. I'm excited for him. He didn't win, but it didn't matter, because I knew he gave everything he had to give. That's something I'm proud of. Don't parents get these type of feelings.....

[MadMax]

I am one of the biggest Astros fans in the world. I've posted nothing but optimism (as far as I can recall) for a long time here about my favorite sports franchise (sorry Rockets!). However...to gloss over one of the worst late season collapses in modern baseball history is silly. This team had a 5.5 game lead with 12 games to play and it slipped away last night. Will they still make the playoffs?? It's likely. But unfortunately they're not really set up well for the playoffs. And they're certainly not set up real well to match up with Johnson and Schilling in a short series.

What we're seeing is consistency from this team. As much as it pains me to say it, when the games REALLY mean something...when the pressure is on...when they play what we would all define as a "big game"...this group of Astros falls short. And they don't just fall short...they fall flat on their faces. Forget the fact that they're one of the best offensive teams in the league --- they're anything but that when games really matter. It kills me to say that. Where the Rocks in their championship runs stepped up when they needed it most, the Astros fall further. They don't play above themselves (as the Rocks did) or even to their capabilities...they play below them. The only conclusion is that it is deeply psychological at this point. Combine this collapse with the collapses in 95 and 96 and you have one of the biggest underachieving MLB teams in our lifetimes. Combine it with the pitiful performances in the playoffs and it looks just silly.

I'm still rooting for them...and it still hurts like hell to watch them lose!! But I can't ignore the fact that this team is participating in a massive choke-job right about now....and the fact that such choke-job is entirely consistent with the performance of this team over the course of the last 6 or so years.

Phi Slamma -- your analogy is a good one...however,this Astro team isn't losing now because of injury. They're not hitting worth a flip, and I don't think having Oswalt would change that. That third game of the Cardinals series was a joke. They made two errors (one leading to a run) and scored one run (an 8th inning solo shot by Bags). They did not come to play that game. Their team batting average has dropped sharply...they may be trying..and I can appreciate that...but ultimately that might not be good enough. Am I happy for them??? Why would I be?? I'd like to think they're not really happy for themselves either. Professionals shoot for being nothing but the best...it is certainly in their capacity to win this division and win the league pennant...but they've clammed up.