Wizard vs. Shareef: Somebody pass the Advil.

[Azim da Dream]

Man, this guy is going to give us serious mathcup problems for us today. Wizard can't play D, he will overpower Shandon, uses his quickness against Barkley, and just fake the lights out of Cato or Rogers. The only one who will be able to even come close to containing would be Rogers, but the guy doesn't get nearly enough minutes to make a defensive impact. Normally, I wouldn't worry 'cause Shareef practically causes matchup problems for every team, but knowing our luck, Dickerson, Carr, Othella and Price will have career games. I expect MD to shoot the lights out and make a big shot in the 4th, just as Mario and Maxwell did. Howver, I do believe we have a good chance to taking it, but its going to be close.

But man is Abdur-Rahiim going to have a field day with Walt Williams.

Azim da Dream

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"Change does not necessarily assure progress, but progress
undeniably requires change."
- Motto of the Houston Rockets

[DaneB]

I think Steve Francis is going to have a really good game. Perhaps somewhere in the 30s? Hes to going to utterly dominate Mike Bibby.

[Plowman]

Anderson and Rogers should split time on him.The guy is a STUD.

[Francis3]

Well this is even. Both are the slowest players in the league. Wizard can handle the slow poke rahim.


Shareef is way better, but he is slow so williams can handle him.


If we put anderson on rahim , anderson will shut him down!

[Pass 1st, shoot 2nd]

Francis3,
You are high. Shandon is good, but Shareef will pimp slap him and put him in foul trouble. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Shandon is a face-up defender, not a post defender. We'll have to get it done by committee on this one, IMO.

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"When everybody doubts us,
we can do it. When every
-body criticizes us, we
can do it. But we have to
work together."
— Hakeem Olajuwon

[Azim da Dream]

Francis2, I fail to see where you see the slowness in "Reef's game. Sure, he a'int a Steve Francis, but for a guy towering at 6"9" and a solid 230lbs, he can move. He isn't uncanningly quick, but he has an explosive finishing move, and spins in a DREAMesque manner. In fact, he reminds me a lot of a smaller, younger Dream. His fakes are so real you would be a fool NOT to go for them, and his myriad of spin moves with his deft footwork remind you of an Olajuwon in his prime.

To call Shareef a slow poke is like calling Charles Barkley soft spoken, it just doesn't fit.

Azim da Dream

------------------
"Change does not necessarily assure progress, but progress
undeniably requires change."
- Motto of the Houston Rockets

[Francis3]

He is a great player. But he is REALLLLLY SLOW. He cant run fast, he doesnt move quick.

[gr8-1]

shareef is probably the best player we've never heard of, if he played here or with the lakers, i think he would get alot of press. But no, he's not the quickest guy in the world, but he can getaround walt all day long. i think he's almost as good as KG.

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"Don't they get cable in Canada ?" Keith olbermann, after watching hakeem block terry catledge's shot 5 times.

[Francis3]

Almost as good as KG?

You mean Kendal Gill?

Because he is not as good as Kevin Garnett. I dont look at players that play in Vancouver, great players. Shareef is a good player but not like a garnett. He could be but I dont think he could be as big playing in Vancouver. You dont get noticed up there.


But the grizzles have something interesting.

FASTEST NBA PLAYER = DICKERSON

SLOWEST NBA PLAYER = RAHIM

[thacabbage]

gr8-1:

Nobody is almost as good as KG. KG and Rahim are worlds apart.

Francis3:

Quickness and speed are two totally different things. Rahim might not be the fastest (speed) guy in the world, but he certainly has enough quickness to spin off of or drive past most small forwards.

[Dr of Dunk]

VegetableHead,

Interesting point you made about nobody being as good as KG. Not sure if you meant at every position, but I'll propose a few trades to you (let's keep 'em simple... straight-up trades). Which ones would you do if you could get KG? :

Vince Carter
Tim Duncan
Jason Kidd
Lamar Odom
Alan Iverson
Shaquille O'Neal
Grant Hill

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Rocket fuel pumps through these veins...

[Francis3]

I would get Shaq or Duncan.

You can build something with them.


[This message has been edited by Francis3 (edited November 29, 1999).]

[thacabbage]

This is with no strings attached, right? Meaning that because this is 1999, that $21 mill a year contract Garnett signed a few years back would turn into the same thing guys are getting now (about $10 mill). Ok, if money wasn't an issue, then sure, I wouldn't trade Garnett for any of those guys. He can do so many things it is amazing.

Vince Carter - doesn't have the physical capability to do what Garnett does defensively. Garnett is 7'2 so he has the ability to do other things.
Tim Duncan - He is nothing compared to KG.
Jason Kidd - same as Vince Carter.
Lamar Odom - Has a great all around game, but isn't nearly as gifted athletically as KG is.
Alan Iverson - same as Kidd and Carter.
Shaquille O'Neal - same as Duncan.
Grant Hill - same as Kidd, Carter, and Hill.

Garnett has the athleticism of Vince Carter, the fire and competitiveness of Mario Elie, the height of Shaquille O'neal, the defensive prowess of Gary Payton, the shot-blocking of Dikembe Mutombo, the offensive game of Allen Iverson, and the youth of Tracy McGrady. All that to go with a boatload of jewelry.

I wouldn't trade Garnett for anyone in the league.

[Dr of Dunk]

CabbageDome,

Wow, I guess you meant what you said,huh? http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/wink.gif
I would agree with you on every one of those except Shaq and MAYBE Tim and Vince. Vince has upside along the lines of a Jordan (I haven't seen his defense, so I'm not sure about that, but his offensive upside is incredible), Tim is the next decade's Hakeem (in many ways).

I'd take Shaq over Garnett for one reason... there is NO ONE in the NBA that is unstoppable on offense except for Shaq. He cannot be stopped without triple-teaming (maybe double-teaming) him on offense. No one else can say that. His sheer mass often equates to defense. No one can rebound like him when he puts his mind to it, no one can score like him (including Iverson) when he's going off, and no one's a force on offense and defense like he is. No one can combine all that with the addition of being an enforcer like Shaq can. That being said, boy does his FT shooting suck... hehe.

One guy I left off the list was Kobe... but I'd take KG over him any day. What amazes me about KG is his basketball maturity at his age... haven't seen that since Magic (not that I can remember anyway).

------------------
Rocket fuel pumps through these veins...

[thacabbage]

Shaq: Has the skills, but lacks the heart. Every year that KG has been in the leage, I have seen him improve greatly. Hell, the guy is shooting 3 pointers now! Shaq hasn't and basically just uses his size. He doesn't have half the heart and desire KG posesses. Add that to the fact that he is nearly 7 years older than KG.

Duncan: The definition of basic. If every 7 footer in the NBA practiced hard and studied the game of basketball, they would be as good as Duncan. Duncan's greatness is based on his peer's inabilities. Face it, all other centers suck and that just makes any big man with any sort of talent look good. Erick freaking Dampier gets $7 million a year! Duncan's game is basic and his athletic ability is just the same. Raw talent for talent, KG is leaps and bounds above Duncan. You watched last year's playoffs, didn't you? Duncan won the series solely because he is more disciplined than KG at this stage (after 4 year's of College), but when KG had his head in the game, and was allowed to play, he literally ate Duncan apart. There were plays when he would block the ball straight off of Duncan's shot, in his face. Add that to the fact that before this season, KG was too unselfish and always looked to pass rather than dominate. Duncan is all about fundamentals and discipline. Once KG gets some discipline he will the THE MAN.

[napster]

I agree that you don't trade KG for Shaq. (youth). I disagree about Shaq's lack of improvement. He has degraded since his rookie year, but this year, he has been playing like he should have been before.

[Finalfantasy]

Oh not so fast, Garnett is no where near Duncan, Duncan proved that he could carry the team in the playoff while Garnett failed to do so, and Dream blocked Duncan's shots too, that doens't mean Dream is better than Ducan at this stage, in fact Ducna gave Garnet more swats.

Duncan is the most complete and the best player in this league at present, when you are at the same age of other peers(including Garnett), and you are able to maintain composure, carry the team in the playoff day in day out, eventually win a championship being the leader, that reflects greatness other than fundamental itself, that is the first time ever happened in the NBA history fellows. Duncan is likely to be the MVP this season, not Garnett, right now Duncan is the player of the week, his stats are better than Garnett's. Garnett gives you 22 points, 12 rebounds and 2 blocks a game, and Duncan gives you 24 points, 14 rebounds and 4 blocks per game. The edge is clear to see.

Garnett failed to show up in the big game against Portland, hitting 2-14. He is fun to watch while Duncan is a service robot. Duncan is dependable and that alone is hard to find. Let's give Duncan his credit for his maturity and greatness. Dominique Wilkins and Clyde Drexler are explosive players but they are no where near MJ, and Duncan is the only one right now has a chance to exceed MJ's threepeats.

[Francis3]

Duncan is way smarter than Garnett. Thats why he is better. Garnett could become better and most likely will. But Duncan is better than Garnett right now.

[Finalfantasy]

Yeah Garnett might be the best player in the future, but not now.

[Rocket101]

A lot of being the best has to do with the people surrounding you. Put another descent superstar around drexler and make sure they're in a bigger city and ppl would say drexler was better then they do now. For the record, please don't say porter or kersey were superstars. It would have been sweet to see a young pip and a young clyde work together.(no bad Scottie jokes or insults)

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GO ROCKETS!!!!!!!!

[Azim da Dream]

One cannot deny Kevin Garnett's athletic prowess and awe-inspiring talent. But talent alone does not a player make. Sure, KG has heart -- tons of it. Sure, he is a 7-footer that does things some guards could only dream about. But he has not truly been tested yet. He either has not had the right opportunities to simply deliver in clutch. Last year, there was not any distinction between his play-off preformance and his regular-season preformance, and that is what seperates the stars from the greats.

Sure, he doesn't have the supporting cast that Duncan has, but part of that may be his own fault. He had the chance to play with Stephon Marbury and Tom Gugliatta and form one heck of a nucleus for years to come in the Twin Cities. But his now infamous ridiculous multi-million dollar signing created a chain of events that eventually left his one-time sidekick Marbury alienated and uncomfortable, and drove Googs out of town as well. I'm not questioning Garnett's character, he probably is a great guy. But is he willing to play with other superstars? He has a pretty good team up there in Timberland, but not a championship calibre team.

And statistically speaking, his game is not superior, perhaps even slightly inferior to, the Hills, Abdur-Rahiims, Duncans and Carters. Of course, stats don't tell the whole story, and are often misleading, but to say something to the effect of, "Nobody is almost as good as KG" is downright ludricious. Talent for talent, due to his sheer size and versatality, he very may well be the best, but certainly not worlds apart from the next best. He still has a lot to prove.

BTW, funny how conversations drift, eh http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/smile.gif

Azim da Dream

------------------
"Change does not necessarily assure progress, but progress
undeniably requires change."
- Motto of the Houston Rockets

[thacabbage]

Azim:

Sure, he doesn't have the supporting cast that Duncan has, but part of that may be his own fault. He had the chance to play with Stephon Marbury and Tom Gugliatta and form one heck of a nucleus for years to come in the Twin Cities. But his now infamous ridiculous multi-million dollar signing created a chain of events that eventually left his one-time sidekick Marbury alienated and uncomfortable, and drove Googs out of town as well. I'm not questioning Garnett's character, he probably is a great guy. But is he willing to play with other superstars? He has a pretty good team up there in Timberland, but not a championship calibre team.

I really don't agree with this argument at all. Keep in mind that at the time that Garnett signed this extension, the new salary restrictions weren't in place. So basically, he could get whatever he wanted. This was just a kid who saw the money and tried to get as much of it as he could. Honestly, if you had a choice between making $20 million a year and making $10 million a year, what would you choose? I doubt anyone would think about the winning at that point. Nowadays, players don't have that choice of how much they want to make. Basically, David Stern tells you how much you can make, and you ink in your new deal. If this wasn't so, then every player would be in the Garnett situation. BUT, this new deal has saved teams from falling into these problems. So, the blame can't be put on KG. He just saw the money and went for it. Other guys like Iverson, Bryant, Carter, and such would have done the same. Also, isn't it the owner's and general manager's fault in this particular scenario? Shouldn't they be the guys budgeting things out and making sure they have room for other guys? Of course a player is going to try and milk out as much as he can...its human nature. The GM's need to set a line and put their foot down.

Now, I feel I have proved that it is not Garnett's fault that he doesnt have a championship calibre team around him. If you put Garnett on the Spurs, I think they would be pretty much the same this year. (In the future FAR BETTER after Garnett matures as a player). Duncan has a guy like David Robinson to do all the dirty work for him and play solid D. What does Garnett have? Dean Garrett?...Joe Smith? Not much for big men. Duncan had solid vets like Sean Elliot and Mario Elie to keep the defense honest and hit down the open three-pointers. What did Garnett have? The inconsistent Anthony Peeler... http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/frown.gif. Brandon is a great talent, but is nowhere near the floor general that Avery Johnson is. All in all the Spurs were a great group of vets who knew how to play together and play roles. THey needed a guy to carry them and that is what Duncan did. Garnett did not have that.

[Achebe]

finalfantasy:

(garnett) is fun to watch while Duncan is a service robot.

how true. that drop step makes me wretch.
duncan must be estatic there are no aesthetical rules in bball... somebody earlier compared him to dream; i beg to differ, dream's still poetry in motion compared to duncan, even w/ the occassional travel http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/smile.gif

[gr8-1]

Sorry my fellow rocket brethren, but i gotto stick to my guns. I think shareef is actually more polished then KG, but kevin is obviously more athletic and a better defender. But, and i definitely could be wrong, if you look at their numbers over the last2 years, there isn't a huge difference. Maybe KG is pulling away.

Now, I do think KG will be the best player in the league in a year or two. And im picking hairs here, but KG isn't a great outside shooter yet. So, game on the line, you need a two to tie, do you want shaq to get the ball ( I know he has free throw probs, but that guy is unstoppable), or maybe even chris webber ? Im a big webber fan, but even he doesn't have the upside of KG.

Is dickerson really the fastest player in the NBA ? what about latrell ? He's fast also. It'd be interesting to find out.

------------------
"Don't they get cable in Canada ?" Keith olbermann, after watching hakeem block terry catledge's shot 5 times.