Vince Young hints at desire to be in Houston

[KDJ3]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d827c5e31/article/qa-vince-young-remains-upbeat-about-nfl-future?module=HP11_MYNFL


Will the Texans oblige?

[xcrunner51]

Wasn't this a story a while ago too? VY's career is pretty much done and he's grasping at straws.

He's the equivalent to Tebow with regard to the Texans; he'd be a huge distraction at QB2.

[conquistador#11]

it's like deja vu!

[The Real Shady]

Thunderbears still around?

[KDJ3]

Wasn't this a story a while ago too? VY's career is pretty much done and he's grasping at straws.

He's the equivalent to Tebow with regard to the Texans; he'd be a huge distraction at QB2.

Yea I just didn't see anything on the boards about it. And I completely agree.

[Major Malcontent]

He and the Orangebloods would expect him to be anointed Starter for Life the second he hit Kirby, when the reality is I am not sure he would be able to beat out T.J for the number 2 job.

He might actually be able to help in some red-zone wildcatish thing, but I think Kubiak has shown no desire to even try something like that.

It comes down to do you think Vince can be humble and prepare himself every week in case he is needed with his still rabid fans blowing up talk radio in his hometown clamoring for him to start. Or will he act like a petulant 11 year old and mess up our excellent locker room? I know what history seems to indicate will happen.

[ItsMyFault]

If he wants to be a third string and he accepts the minimum then sure.

[codell]

I've always maintained that there is no way in hell that VY Nation would accept him being anything less than a starter in his own hometown. Most that maintain they will are completely disingenuous IMO.

[DaDakota]

As a VY and Texans fan, I would not want him on the Texans, I like Schaub and TJ Yates enough, and this team is good enough without the distraction of Mr. Young.

DD

[Phillyrocket]

He's not stupid, he knows his career is shot and the Texans might be tempted to bing him in just to appease a few fans.

[KingCheetah]

Can he play WR now?

[Kam]

Knee- Pleeeease child.

[jopatmc]

Can he play WR now?


YUP YUP YUP!!!

I'd sign him for league minimum to be 3rd string QB AND RECEIVER!

[mrm32]

It sucks that he said one of the main reasons he decided to enter the draft in 2006 was because we had the number 1 pick and wanted to play in Houston. Nice how that turned out for him. I'm glad with who we have and I'm more than comfortable enough with Yates at number 2.

[cardpire]

As a VY and Texans fan, I would not want him on the Texans, I like Schaub and TJ Yates enough, and this team is good enough without the distraction of Mr. Young.

DD

he sure was a big distraction last year with the eagles, wasn't he?

vy nuts realize now that schaub is better than him. what some people don't understand is how putrid t.j. yates is. i'd sign vy on the cheap to back up schaub in a heartbeat.

[DonkeyMagic]

Can he play WR now?

Well they do need a backup TE

[Fulgore]

If we get him for cheap then why not. Cant be any worst than Leinart. Have him battle with yates for the backup spot.

[Uprising]

2 things come to mind....

1.)


http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/780762/Do-Not-Want.jpg




2.)


<iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/oKI-tD0L18A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[ynelilvs99]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d827c5e31/article/qa-vince-young-remains-upbeat-about-nfl-future?module=HP11_MYNFL


Will the Texans oblige?

If the Texans werent interested in his first year, I doubt they would be interested now.. and wouldnt he want/expect a lo of money?

[Air Langhi]

If the Texans werent interested in his first year, I doubt they would be interested now.. and wouldnt he want/expect a lo of money?

I doubt he could get much money. He already made a lot from his first contract.

[ynelilvs99]

[QUOTE=Major Malcontent;6738047]
'when the reality is I am not sure he would be able to beat out T.J for the number 2 job. '

That might be a bit much, I dont know that I agree with that part

[xcrunner51]

It sucks that he said one of the main reasons he decided to enter the draft in 2006 was because we had the number 1 pick and wanted to play in Houston. Nice how that turned out for him.

It's a convenient story but I call bull****. He came out that year because he was a potential #1 overall pick. It wouldn't have mattered if Houston drafted first or last.

what some people don't understand is how putrid t.j. yates is. i'd sign vy on the cheap to back up schaub in a heartbeat.

Yates may never be a Pro-Bowler but he's proven he fits in our system and can manage games. I'd take that everyday over VY's better talent and bigger headache any day.

[cardpire]

Yates may never be a Pro-Bowler but he's proven he fits in our system and can manage games. I'd take that everyday over VY's better talent and bigger headache any day.

"manage games" has become the most overused mumbo jumbo ever. what does that even mean? that you suck, but have the ability to hand the ball off without fumbling 40 times/game, and can complete a couple short passes? can you give me an example of an nfl qb who doesn't have the ability to "manage games"?

give me somebody that possesses the ability to win games by carrying the team if need be if schaub goes down.

[xcrunner51]

"manage games" has become the most overused mumbo jumbo ever. what does that even mean? that you suck, but have the ability to hand the ball off without fumbling 40 times/game, and can complete a couple short passes? can you give me an example of an nfl qb who doesn't have the ability to "manage games"?

give me somebody that possesses the ability to win games by carrying the team if need be if schaub goes down.

Nice sentiment but no front office builds a team that way. Schaub doesn't even carry the team when he's healthy, why would his backup attempt to? You lose QB1, you try to play up your team's strengths and minimize your weaknesses. In our case its focusing on defense and the run game while making sure the QB doesn't turn the ball over, i.e. a game manager. It'd be stupid to fundamentally change the way we play football when the backup QB comes in.

I think you're not giving Yates his due. In his rookie season, he engineered a road comeback win that clinched the playoffs AND won a playoff game. Talented or not those are big accomplishments. For reference VY has never won a playoff game.

[rezdawg]

he sure was a big distraction last year with the eagles, wasn't he?

Why would he be a distraction for a team based in Philly?

[OremLK]

I don't think I have enough GIFs for this topic, but I'll give it my best shot.

Not safe for slow internet. You have been warned!:

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[cardpire]

I think you're not giving Yates his due. In his rookie season, he engineered a road comeback win that clinched the playoffs AND won a playoff game. Talented or not those are big accomplishments. For reference VY has never won a playoff game.

silly point. matt schaub has never won a playoff game either. i guess they should promote yates to qb1.

the ravens game was possibly the worst game i've ever seen a quarterback play. i understand that beating baltimore on the road in the playoffs is a lot to ask of him, but that also pretty much makes my point. maybe tj yates will be a capable qb someday, but this year certainly isn't the time to hope he turns the corner in the event that schaub gets injured again.

i'm still in the minority, but it blows me away that insuring schaub with a capable veteran backup qb hasn't been a priority. superbowl hopes are reduced to 0% if schaub gets hurt and yates is our backup qb.

[OremLK]

Yates is already three times the quarterback VY is, by the way.

I would be in favor of signing VY on as a ball boy, but then VY would be within 10 miles on the Texans on a regular basis, and we absolutely cannot have that.

[cardpire]

Why would he be a distraction for a team based in Philly?

it's vince young man. he's a thug. he's a bad seed. he's a distraction everywhere he goes. he's a locker room cancer. tears teams apart with his crazy antics. don't believe me? ask jeff fisher.

[xcrunner51]

silly point. matt schaub has never won a playoff game either. i guess they should promote yates to qb1.

the ravens game was possibly the worst game i've ever seen a quarterback play. i understand that beating baltimore on the road in the playoffs is a lot to ask of him, but that also pretty much makes my point. maybe tj yates will be a capable qb someday, but this year certainly isn't the time to hope he turns the corner in the event that schaub gets injured again.

i'm still in the minority, but it blows me away that insuring schaub with a capable veteran backup qb hasn't been a priority. superbowl hopes are reduced to 0% if schaub gets hurt and yates is our backup qb.

You sound ridiculously entitled, as if Yates was the reason we didn't win the SB.

It's getting a little crazy seeing what the fanbase is expecting after one good season. Y'all want Pro-Bowlers starting at every position and expect the backups to just as good without any regard to the salary cap. After seeing what they had to this off-season just to keep Arian and Myers, you think the FO gives two ****s about throwing money at the backup QB position?

Yes, SB hopes go to 0% if Schaub gets hurt. Duh. There's not a single team in this league that will make the Superbowl without their starting quarterback.

[cardpire]

You sound ridiculously entitled, as if Yates was the reason we didn't win the SB.

you sound like you don't know the meaning of "entitled".

[david_rocket]

the ravens game was possibly the worst game i've ever seen a quarterback play.

really? that statement is so stupid, and it seems you havent seen a lot of football.

what about jake delhomme 5 INTs and a fumble in a playoff game,

what about curtis painter all last season?

why do you hate yates?

[xcrunner51]

you sound like you don't know the meaning of "entitled".

How so? You sound like the Texans owed you a good season and screwed that up by having to play Yates.

[cardpire]

How so? You sound like the Texans owed you a good season and screwed that up by having to play Yates.

now you sound like you just asked somebody what "entitled" means, and rearranged your meaning to make it make sense.

[cardpire]

really? that statement is so stupid.

why do you hate yates?

it's stupid? how do you know what football games i have seen??

i don't hate yates. i just don't want him being the starting quarterback of the houston texans at any point in the 2012-2013 season.

[arkoe]

Not this again.

[rezdawg]

it's stupid? how do you know what football games i have seen??

i don't hate yates. i just don't want him being the starting quarterback of the houston texans at any point in the 2012-2013 season.

How many teams can go with their 2nd string QB into the playoffs and win games?

I dont want to see anyone but Schaub on the field for the Texans next year. But, if our starter goes down, very, very few teams would be in a position where they would be comfortable with the 2nd stringer. What Yates did last season for the Texans was HUGE, considering that he entered the year as the 3rd string QB and a ROOKIE. He won a playoff game...that alone should put him among the top half of 2nd string QBs in the NFL. Sure, he sucked against the Ravens...then again, he was playing the Ravens on their field. Not exactly an environment that many QBs strive in .

[cardpire]

How many teams can go with their 2nd string QB into the playoffs and win games?

who cares about other teams? we proved that we can. with a "game manager". we have a great d and a great run game. with the pieces in place to utilize a great passing game too, if there's a capable qb in there.

do you think it would have been impossible to win that ravens game with any backup in the entire league? there's no qb that could have played any worse than yates did.

[Shroopy2]

he sure was a big distraction last year with the eagles, wasn't he?

vy nuts realize now that schaub is better than him. what some people don't understand is how putrid t.j. yates is. i'd sign vy on the cheap to back up schaub in a heartbeat.


Before he even threw a pass for them

<object width="560" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/QgX4ZXYW66M?version=3&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/QgX4ZXYW66M?version=3&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

Admittedly the media made TOO much out of NOTHING there.

Not saying he's a distractor. But he distracTED. that put immense burden on the team starting the season.

[Asian Sensation]

http://flashwarner.com/images/youngrico.gif

[Fulgore]

Yates is already three times the quarterback VY is, by the way.

I would be in favor of signing VY on as a ball boy, but then VY would be within 10 miles on the Texans on a regular basis, and we absolutely cannot have that. Yates is not three times better than any qb in the NFL. Let's not get carried away because he beat Cincy in the playoffs. We both know foster and the defense won that game. Yates passed for about 120yds.

[TEXNIFICENT]

Yates is not three times better than any qb in the NFL. Let's not get carried away because he beat Cincy in the playoffs. We both know foster and the defense won that game. Yates passed for about 120yds.

This.

But, VY still might be just too much of a distraction.

[david_rocket]

who cares about other teams? we proved that we can. with a "game manager". we have a great d and a great run game. with the pieces in place to utilize a great passing game too, if there's a capable qb in there.

do you think it would have been impossible to win that ravens game with any backup in the entire league? there's no qb that could have played any worse than yates did.

yep, curtis painter would have played worse.
the backup of Jay Cutler played worse than yates.
and some more.

even flacco didnt play good that game against the texans
flacco 14/27 176 yards 2 TDs
yates 17/35

I think the texans could've won the game if jacoby doesnt fumble the 1st time.

it's stupid? how do you know what football games i have seen??

i don't hate yates. i just don't want him being the starting quarterback of the houston texans at any point in the 2012-2013 season.

I know you dont watch a lot, because you are saying, that nobody played worse than yates.

flacco played bad that game:

flacco 14/27 176 yards 2 TDs
yates 17/35 184 yards 3 INTs

[cardpire]

yep, curtis painter would have played worse.
the backup of Jay Cutler played worse than yates.
and some more.

even flacco didnt play good that game against the texans
flacco 14/27 176 yards 2 TDs
yates 17/35

I think the texans could've won the game if jacoby doesnt fumble the 1st time.



I know you dont watch a lot, because you are saying, that nobody played worse than yates.

flacco played bad that game:

flacco 14/27 176 yards 2 TDs
yates 17/35 184 yards 3 INTs

don't really understand anything you posted here.

[OremLK]

Yates is not three times better than any qb in the NFL. Let's not get carried away because he beat Cincy in the playoffs. We both know foster and the defense won that game. Yates passed for about 120yds.

VY is not a quarterback in the NFL. It's not about how good or bad Yates is, it's about the fact that my pet parrot could out-QB Vince Young.

[RocketMan Tex]

He's done. It's time for him to play in the arena league, or go haywire schizo like Dennis Rodman.

[macalu]

proven winners are usually on a team roster. what team is VY on again?

[Blake]

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES

Signed,

2007

[FLASH21]

Not this guy again.

Fixed.

[DonnyMost]

LOL.

No thanks.

His battle fighting days are over.

[cardpire]

proven winners are usually on a team roster. what team is VY on again?

he's a free agent. he hasn't signed with a team yet. that's what people are discussing in this thread...the possibility of the texans signing free agent qb vince young. he was on the philadelphia eagles during the most recent nfl season.

[kaleidosky]

objectively, as a UT alum and fan and a Texans fan... give me Yates over VY. All day. Let VY go be a #2 elsewhere

[ima_drummer2k]

objectively, as a UT alum and fan and a Texans fan... give me Yates over VY. All day. Let VY go be a #2 elsewhere

Don't you do it!!! DON'T!!! He's... HE'S GOT NOWHERE ELSE TO GO!!!

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/8237/4158025697132.jpg

He's got nowhere else to g... he's got nothin' else.

[Baqui99]

Disappointing season in Philly - led the Eagles to the game winning drive against the Giants on Sunday night, only to fall flat on his face during the Monday night game against Seattle a couple of weeks later.

VY needs to get back in shape and regain his focus - the same focus he had at Texas. Or he'll be out of the league soon.

[weslinder]

If he can't be an Oiler, maybe he can be an Eskimo. Ricky Ray went to Toronto this year. Edmonton needs a qb.

[Raven]

Young, 29, was a guest

Wow, so much hype.

[Fulgore]

VY is not a quarterback in the NFL. It's not about how good or bad Yates is, it's about the fact that my pet parrot could out-QB Vince Young. so Vy is the worst qb you have ever seen? Cmon man.

[plee]

it's not about the physical talents of VY but the "mental" aspects. If he can finally get over having his "feelings" hurt he can become a decent QB. The window is closing for him to be a starter...in the end he may end up like D. Carr a backup for the rest of his career...

[Another Brother]

"Distraction" from what?

[CrazyDave]

Houston fan hints at being thrilled we didn't draft him, and further implies that he has no interest in him coming here. Film at 11.

[ROXRAN]

I wish he best for Young, cuz deep down he really wanted to play in Houston so bad. If he was stronger mentally, he could have been close to where Cam...nvm, he never had a arm..Cam always did.

[Harrisment]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/129/577/How+About+No.jpg?1307079577

[DonkeyMagic]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-J6_Ql8ve4E0/Tzk7dc1LU6I/AAAAAAAACAA/qW9k9PS-BE4/s1600/afro-shaking-head-no.gif

[Rip Van Rocket]

Vince should go to the Jets. I'd have Tebow and Vince lineup behind Sanchez. We would see something we have never seen before. I don't know what we would see, but I want to see it.

[kevC]

Vince should go to the Jets. I'd have Tebow and Vince lineup behind Sanchez. We would see something we have never seen before. I don't know what we would see, but I want to see it.

Double-reverse flea flicker?

[smokieethabear]

"manage games" has become the most overused mumbo jumbo ever. what does that even mean? that you suck, but have the ability to hand the ball off without fumbling 40 times/game, and can complete a couple short passes? can you give me an example of an nfl qb who doesn't have the ability to "manage games"?

give me somebody that possesses the ability to win games by carrying the team if need be if schaub goes down.

Sage Rosenfels had the greatest ability to "manage games", better than any backup I've ever seen.. :grin:

[weslinder]

Vince should go to the Jets. I'd have Tebow and Vince lineup behind Sanchez. We would see something we have never seen before. I don't know what we would see, but I want to see it.

I think we have seen this before: http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2006/0911/nba_cb_villanova_180.jpg

[rpr52121]

Andy Reid is one of the best "player's coaches" in the league, who has put up with numerous crazy personailities, and yet when the Eagles not have an offense best run by a very mobile QB led by injury prone Michael Vick, he lets VY walk when he would appear talent wise to be the best back up possible. Doesn't that say it all?

Also, you cannot have the mentality that a back-up Qb has to be a near equivalent of the your starting QB. That is not how the NFL works. No backup QB will consistently match their starters play, and whenever a backup does accomplish that, they are often lost/traded to another team to be a starter or maid the permanent starter for that team.

By the time backup quarterback would make many of you who are complaining about Yates comfortable, he would have become a starting quarterback somewhere.

What a back-up quarterback is supposed to do is not make mistakes and not LOSE the game for the team. So far Yates has generally done that, with maybe the Carolina game as main exception. And no when other players make stupid plays to force your team to have to fight uphill all game long on the road, having your back up throw a pick or two when trying to comeback, he is not goat.

[david_rocket]

don't really understand anything you posted here.

you said: "there's no qb that could have played any worse than yates did."

and I responded:

curtis painter would have played worse than yates.

also I said that the texans could have won if jacoby doesnt fumble the 1st punt, maybe even yates doesnt have all 3 INTs, if jacoby doesnt fumble, because erase those 7 pts of the first ravens TD, and the texans could have run the ball more with foster, then having yates throwing the ball.

and I posted the flacco numbers from the same game, to prove that flacco didnt play too good in the game, having a 1 yd TD pass (after the jacoby fumble).

flacco 14/27 176 yards 2 TDs
yates 17/35 184 yards 3 INTs

do you understand now?

[rolyat93]

Lol, did nobody watch VY last year? He sucked, TJ is cheaper, and still has potential.(not superstar potential, but, more potential to grow than VY.)

[cardpire]

and I posted the flacco numbers from the same game, to prove that flacco didnt play too good in the game, having a 1 yd TD pass (after the jacoby fumble).

flacco 14/27 176 yards 2 TDs
yates 17/35 184 yards 3 INTs

do you understand now?

are you seriously saying that those #'s are comparable? you are looking at those same numbers that i am, right?

[arkoe]

Fixed.

Thank you for clarifying my position.

[Hey Now!]

i'm still in the minority, but it blows me away that insuring schaub with a capable veteran backup qb hasn't been a priority. superbowl hopes are reduced to 0% if schaub gets hurt and yates is our backup qb.
Who do you have in mind? And which Texan(s) are you going to cut to afford them?

They have no money. They can't even address actual needs right now; no way they can allocate resources to a position that, if you're lucky, will never see the field.

Yates is young and cheap and showed enough potential last year to assume he hasn't hit his ceiling. With his experience, another year in the system and his first offseason workout program, there's every reason to believe he can improve and be a very capable back-up.

The Texans would be foolish to spend a penny on their back-up QB position, given their current financial situation.

[The Cat]

Yates is young and cheap and showed enough potential last year to assume he hasn't hit his ceiling. With his experience, another year in the system and his first offseason workout program, there's every reason to believe he can improve and be a very capable back-up.

This. I really don't get any complaining over Yates. At a position where it notoriously takes until a second or third season to even begin feeling comfortable, TJ as a rookie had a QB rating above 80 and led the Texans to three wins in his five regular-season outings (not counting the Tennessee game which he left after one drive - a touchdown, no less). He's cheap, has a good attitude, knows the system and has a skillset well suited for it. Can't ask for much more out of a backup QB.

[Angkor Wat]

I'm sure we could use some training camp bodies. Use Young to push Yates, so he don't get too comfortable as QB2

[cardpire]

Who do you have in mind? And which Texan(s) are you going to cut to afford them?


there's nobody viable left besides vince young, who i personally like regardless of who else was available. what's sage rosenfels' story? a.j. feeley? those 2 are lesser, but still greater options than yates, and either would be dirt cheap.

gone are the shaun hills, jason campbells, chad hennes, and kyle ortons, any of whom i'd have loved. the way some of you talk about backup qbs, any team with a good starting qb would be idiots to pay more than the league minimum for one, no matter what their cap situations are.

yates very well could end up being a good back-up. i'd even bet that he will (although i think trading him would be brilliant). not this year though. he's still green as can be. they didn't draft a 6th round project qb to be capable of leading a championship-quality roster to the super bowl in his sophomore season. and that's the situation we are talking about here.

[DonnyMost]

there's nobody viable left besides vince young, who i personally like regardless of who else was available. what's sage rosenfels' story? a.j. feeley? those 2 are lesser, but still greater options than yates, and either would be dirt cheap.

gone are the shaun hills, jason campbells, chad hennes, and kyle ortons, any of whom i'd have loved. the way some of you talk about backup qbs, any team with a good starting qb would be idiots to pay more than the league minimum for one, no matter what their cap situations are.

yates very well could end up being a good back-up. i'd even bet that he will (although i think trading him would be brilliant). not this year though. he's still green as can be. they didn't draft a 6th round project qb to be capable of leading a championship-quality roster to the super bowl in his sophomore season. and that's the situation we are talking about here.

Almost 3 million a year is not "dirt cheap". Nobody you mentioned is even anywhere near the Texans price range. If we could afford that, we'd have kept Matt Leinart. TJ Yates *is* "dirt cheap" and almost unquestionably a better option for the Texans at quarterback than Vince Young. Sorry, I know it hurts to hear the truth and have your dreams crushed, but you look like a fool right now talking out of your butt about money, skill, and team priorities.

We'll either sign some QB on his last legs to a contract that averages under a million a year, or we're going to draft another late rounder. My guess is the latter.

[cardpire]

Sorry, I know it hurts to hear the truth and have your dreams crushed, but you look like a fool right now talking out of your butt about money, skill, and team priorities.

We'll either sign some QB on his last legs to a contract that averages under a million a year, or we're going to draft another late rounder. My guess is the latter.

what's so hard about engaging in a simple debate without being a prick for no reason?

oh, and sorry to blow your cover, but i heard the same mcnair interview that you did. your "guess" isn't exactly going out on a limb, so don't pat yourself on the back too hard (again) when your bold prediction of drafting a late rounder comes true.

you should list 30 potential late round qbs then beg everybody to rep and praise you after they draft one.

[DonnyMost]

what's so hard about engaging in a simple debate without being a prick for no reason?

Because you sound like an idiot. You are talking about spending money the Texans do not have. You rant about what they're not doing and what they should be doing without even giving a moments thought as to why. You don't look at context, you don't look at facts, you just rant. You deserve to be ridiculed and called out for it.


oh, and sorry to blow your cover, but i heard the same mcnair interview that you did. your "guess" isn't exactly going out on a limb, so don't pat yourself on the back too hard (again) when your bold prediction of drafting a late rounder comes true.

What the hell are you talking about? What interview?


you should list 30 potential late round qbs then beg everybody to rep and praise you after they draft one.

I know that really got on your tits for some stupid reason, but I honestly don't give a f*** about rep. Sorry you got all bent out of shape about it.


To recap. You are stupid. You rarely ever make sense. You make the Texans forum worse. The end.

[thegary]

what's so hard about engaging in a simple debate without being a prick for no reason?

don't pick on donny, he may smite you with his e-penis.

edit: oops, too late

[Hey Now!]

what's sage rosenfels' story? a.j. feeley?...
gone are the shaun hills, jason campbells, chad hennes, and kyle ortons, any of whom i'd have loved.
Oh, come on - Orton possibly excepted, do you honestly believe any of those QBs are "capable of leading a championship-quality roster to the super bowl"? The answer is no. Plus, they're all older and more expensive. Orton, IIRC, signed for $5mm/year - who are you going to cut to bring on Kyle Orton? Where would you like to create another hole on this team? Again, please keep in perspective: we're discussing a player that you hope never sees the field.

the way some of you talk about backup qbs, any team with a good starting qb would be idiots to pay more than the league minimum for one, no matter what their cap situations are.
Other teams are irrelevant. If you have the money and resources to sign a back-up (as we did a few years ago with Orlovsky), great - go for it. But the Texans do not. Further, they have a more than capable back-up already on the roster.

yates very well could end up being a good back-up. i'd even bet that he will (although i think trading him would be brilliant). not this year though. he's still green as can be. they didn't draft a 6th round project qb to be capable of leading a championship-quality roster to the super bowl in his sophomore season. and that's the situation we are talking about here.
You're wasting much too much energy here, cardpire. Name a contender that isn't screwed if QB1 goes down. Without even looking it up, can you name Green Bay's QB2? New England's? Pittsburgh's? Baltimore's? Do you think the Giants are covered with David Carr?

With a hard cap, you simply cannot allocate precious resources to a back-up QB. You just can't. Especially if you have a cheap, capable one already on the roster. If Schaub goes down, the team is eventually toast. There isn't a QB out there who can step-in and take us to the same places Schaub can. At least with Yates, you have a guy who might eventually be able to. And that's another issue to consider here: post-Schaub. There much better off developing Yates than sinking costs into Kyle Orton.

[cardpire]

Because you sound like an idiot. You are talking about spending money the Texans do not have. You rant about what they're not doing and what they should be doing without even giving a moments thought as to why. You don't look at context, you don't look at facts, you just rant. You deserve to be ridiculed and called out for it.

he asked me to name qb's. i named 2 that i said would be dirt cheap (sage and feeley). you then said signing a backup for $1mm or less was an option. so you agree with me. guess what i said wasn't so ridiculous after all.

What the hell are you talking about? What interview?

cute! (but not believable :()

I know that really got on your tits for some stupid reason, but I honestly don't give a f*** about rep. Sorry you got all bent out of shape about it.

To recap. You are stupid. You rarely ever make sense. You make the Texans forum worse. The end.

just because you boldly proclaim that you don't care about rep doesn't fool everybody from knowing that you do.

sorry that i make the forums worse for you. strange that you haven't blocked me if that's how you feel. it's really simple and only takes a couple seconds to do.

[cardpire]

Oh, come on - Orton possibly excepted, do you honestly believe any of those QBs are "capable of leading a championship-quality roster to the super bowl"? The answer is no. Plus, they're all older and more expensive. Orton, IIRC, signed for $5mm/year - who are you going to cut to bring on Kyle Orton? Where would you like to create another hole on this team? Again, please keep in perspective: we're discussing a player that you hope never sees the field.


Other teams are irrelevant. If you have the money and resources to sign a back-up (as we did a few years ago with Orlovsky), great - go for it. But the Texans do not. Further, they have a more than capable back-up already on the roster.


You're wasting much too much energy here, cardpire. Name a contender that isn't screwed if QB1 goes down. Without even looking it up, can you name Green Bay's QB2? New England's? Pittsburgh's? Baltimore's? Do you think the Giants are covered with David Carr?


you picked out 1 qb...the most expensive one. what about the others? do you think anybody who is still available is going to sign somewhere for much more, if any, than the vet minimum? doesn't matter anyway, the money is irrelevant as far as our debate goes. we clearly have a very wide gap on our opinions of tj yates anyway. i think every qb i named is a large upgrade over him (at this point in his career).

harrell? hoyer? leftwich or batch? don't know ravens. doesn't matter, as i've mentioned a few times, none of these teams have a defense and running game like we do. nor are their quarterbacks hurt as often as ours is. that's why, as crappy as yates is, even he was able to "manage" this team to a 1st round playoff win. there's no doubt in my mind that better backup qbs who can stretch the field and not throw the ball directly to the other team can keep hope alive of getting even further.

[Hey Now!]

you picked out 1 qb...the most expensive one. what about the others?
Come on, man - those QBs are all, if we're being kind, mediocre:
Young - 74.4 career QBR; 29 years old
Rosenfels - 81.2; 34
Feeley - 69.1; 35
Hill - 84.7; 32
Campbell - 82.8; 31
Henne - 75.7; 27

Yates - 80.7; 24

Please point out the significant upgrade. And keep in mind: Yates totaled a 97.7 QBR in a playoff game so this notion that they have no chance of winning a Super Bowl with him seems patently silly if you're going to trot out Jason freaking Campbell as a better alternative....

I would bet you every single dime I have that every single GM that signed those deadbeats would trade them for TJ Yates in a nanosecond.

doesn't matter anyway, the money is irrelevant as far as our debate goes. we clearly have a very wide gap on our opinions of tj yates anyway. i think every qb i named is a large upgrade over him (at this point in his career).
Money matters. We're not having a general discussion about the viability of back-up QBs... we're specifically talking about the 2012 Houston Texans, who are, salary cap wise, broke.

And that’s another feather in Yates’ cap – he has shown enough potential to at least be in the discussion about Schaub’s heir apparent. There is NO WAY you throw ALL that out for Chad Henne. Sorry, man – that’s not a smart way to run a franchise.

none of these teams have a defense and running game like we do.
Agreed. So if QB1 isn’t among our greatest winning assets – why are you so hyper-focused on QB2 being one? They already have enough to win a playoff game and take a SB-caliber contender on the road down to the final play….

there's no doubt in my mind that better backup qbs who can stretch the field and not throw the ball directly to the other team can keep hope alive of getting even further.
Of the 6 players you listed, 3 have thrown more INTs than TDs in their careers and none, save for Rosenfels (who, of course, played decently in this system), has a higher YPA than Yates in limited action during a lockout-truncated rookie season.

And BTW – check the numbers on these guys – they’ve signed for Matt Leinart+-like money. So… for the third time I’ll ask: which current Texan are you willing to release to make room for your “Super Bowl” caliber back-up QB?

[macalu]

you picked out 1 qb...the most expensive one. what about the others? do you think anybody who is still available is going to sign somewhere for much more, if any, than the vet minimum? doesn't matter anyway, the money is irrelevant as far as our debate goes. we clearly have a very wide gap on our opinions of tj yates anyway. i think every qb i named is a large upgrade over him (at this point in his career).


:confused: really?

[cardpire]

Come on, man - those QBs are all, if we're being kind, mediocre:
Young - 74.4 career QBR; 29 years old
Rosenfels - 81.2; 34
Feeley - 69.1; 35
Hill - 84.7; 32
Campbell - 82.8; 31
Henne - 75.7; 27

Yates - 80.7; 24

Please point out the significant upgrade. And keep in mind: Yates totaled a 97.7 QBR in a playoff game so this notion that they have no chance of winning a Super Bowl with him seems patently silly if you're going to trot out Jason freaking Campbell as a better alternative....

give him credit for his 97.7 qbr in a 1st round playoff game at home vs. the worst team to make it into the playoffs, while leaving out the 28.7 qbr vs. the best team he faced last year?

none of those other qbs have played in an offense and team 1/10 as good as ours, save for possibly feeley at some point in his eagles' spot starts. rosenfels' qbr was possibly inflated as a product of the system. my eyes tell me that the rest of those qbs are far better than yates (this early in his career), and i think their qbrs would all rise as well.


And that’s another feather in Yates’ cap – he has shown enough potential to at least be in the discussion about Schaub’s heir apparent. There is NO WAY you throw ALL that out for Chad Henne. Sorry, man – that’s not a smart way to run a franchise.

throw what out? i didn't say they should cut yates.

Agreed. So if QB1 isn’t among our greatest winning assets – why are you so hyper-focused on QB2 being one? They already have enough to win a playoff game and take a SB-caliber contender on the road down to the final play….

qb1 is among our greatest winning assets. doesn't mean we are forced to make the passing game shot to hell if he goes down. and, taking a sb-caliber contender on the road down to the final play isn't the goal. that's the whole point...i'd like a shot to get further than that if schaub gets hurt again.



So… for the third time I’ll ask: which current Texan are you willing to release to make room for your “Super Bowl” caliber back-up QB?

jacoby jones.

[cardpire]

:confused: really?

as far as the debate i was having with him goes, yes. he thinks yates is good enough, and/or that the dice should be rolled with schaub staying healthy. i'm on the complete opposite end of the spectrum in regards to both of those, and think a better back up should be/should have been a priority.

[Hey Now!]

give him credit for his 97.7 qbr in a 1st round playoff game at home vs. the worst team to make it into the playoffs, while leaving out the 28.7 qbr vs. the best team he faced last year?
There’s no need to point it out. None of us have nor ever would argue that he was consistently good last year. As befitting of a 5th round rookie who didn’t have the benefit of an offseason program, partook in an accelerated training camp, a truncated preseason, and was inactive for 10 weeks, he was mediocre last year.

But he showed enough potential (ie the Cincinnati playoff game, which is why I pointed it out) to comfortably assume he’ll progress and be better this year with a normal offseason. We don’t know his eventual ceiling; these other guys? We know what they are: mediocre.

my eyes tell me that the rest of those qbs are far better than yates (this early in his career), and i think their qbrs would all rise as well.
You should have your eyes checked – AJ Feeley?

Bigger question: why invest heavily in a back-up QB if the system as a whole is better than it’s parts?

and, taking a sb-caliber contender on the road down to the final play isn't the goal. that's the whole point...i'd like a shot to get further than that if schaub gets hurt again.
So it’s your contention that with Young, Campbell, Henne, Feeley or Hill, we would have beaten Baltimore? I, along with every single other poster on this forum (who isn't BFFs with Baby Vince), agree to disagree. That's silly.

jacoby jones.
That’s fine, and figured you were probably going to list him. Here’s the issue: I don’t know capology, but I think he’s making… $3MM-ish this year; let’s say you save that by releasing him and spend… $2MM on a back-up QB. Heck, $1.5MM.

So now you have Schaub/Hill, or whoever, and he’s throwing to Johnson, Walter and… nobody. There’s literally not another WR on your roster and no PR whatsoever. So who would you like the Texans to sign to replace JJ (WR2/3 + PR) at a cost of $1.5MM?

You’ve (IYO) upgraded a position you pretty much had covered and weakened further an already known weak spot.

as far as the debate i was having with him goes, yes.
Then we’re having different debates. Sorry, man - but this is why I get so frustrated with you….. Money is very much, absolutely a gigantic part of this discussion. The discussion doesn't exist without it.

[cardpire]

Bigger question: why invest heavily in a back-up QB if the system as a whole is better than it’s parts?

when did i mention investing heavily?

So it’s your contention that with Young, Campbell, Henne, Feeley or Hill, we would have beaten Baltimore? I, along with every single other poster on this forum (who isn't BFFs with Baby Vince), agree to disagree. That's silly.

i absolutely do think we would have beaten them, yes.

and how can you possibly say that every single other poster on the forum would agree that "If TJ Yates couldn't beat 'em, none of those guys could either!" THAT is silly.

So now you have Schaub/Hill, or whoever, and he’s throwing to Johnson, Walter and… nobody. There’s literally not another WR on your roster and no PR whatsoever. So who would you like the Texans to sign to replace JJ (WR2/3 + PR) at a cost of $1.5MM?

don't know what fa wr's are still available, and i'm assuming/hoping we are drafting one.

feel free to list what free agent wrs are still out there though. do you really think any would be such a downgrade from jacoby jones (our #3 wr) that he would cause us to lose games?

You’ve (IYO) upgraded a position you pretty much had covered and weakened further an already known weak spot.

weakened why? doesn't everybody hate jacoby jones and want him cut? i guess you weren't in that crowd? could easily be addition by subtraction by replacing him, no matter what stiff we replace him with.

and: "(IMO) ugraded a position that (IYO) we had covered".

Then we’re having different debates. Sorry, man - but this is why I get so frustrated with you….. Money is very much, absolutely a gigantic part of this discussion. The discussion doesn't exist without it.

what i'm saying is, your views on yates and our need for a backup are so far different than mine, that the debate ends before cap issues are brought into the equation anyway. saying that wasn't meant to bring up a point of contention. disregard it.

[Hey Now!]

when did i mention investing heavily?
Any cost beyond what you’re already paying your perfectly capable 5th round rookie would be considered “heavy”, IMO.

and how can you possibly say that every single other poster on the forum would agree that "If TJ Yates couldn't beat 'em, none of those guys could either!" THAT is silly.
Because nobody else on planet Earth thinks that AJ Feeley, Jason Campbell – et al - are better QBs than TJ Yates. They’re lousy. That you’re having to pick on a 5th round rookie QB to boost their status only underscores their complete and utter mediocrity.

But, since you mentioned it: anyone on the forum who disagrees, please chime in.

feel free to list what free agent wrs are still out there though. do you really think any would be such a downgrade from jacoby jones (our #3 wr) that he would cause us to lose games?

weakened why? doesn't everybody hate jacoby jones and want him cut? i guess you weren't in that crowd? could easily be addition by subtraction by replacing him, no matter what stiff we replace him with.
I’ve now seen you do this twice in this thread; it's another bad habit: If YOU think signing a back-up QB is a top priority and that we can do so by releasing Jacoby Jones (which is perfectl viable), then it’s up to YOU - not me - to list, name, etc., alternatives. I’m perfectly content keeping TJ Yates – my position doesn’t require releasing anyone and finding a replacement for our WR3 + PR1.

And no – simply releasing him doesn’t make us better: he’s an above-average PR and an effective blocker – easily replaceable, sure – but he’d be missed if he’s being replaced by air.

what i'm saying is, your views on yates and our need for a backup are so far different than mine, that the debate ends before cap issues are brought into the equation anyway. saying that wasn't meant to bring up a point of contention. disregard it.
But there’s no separation, cardpire. We had this same issue debating Manning – you want to run to a vacuum and pretend there’s no context. Donny has already called you out on it here; so, too, has macalu – this debate is grounded in: THEY HAVE NO MONEY.

If you want to have a general discussion about back-up QBs, go ahead. I’m focused on the 2012 Texans, the only team I care about. And I contend – and the team agees with me, btw – that TJ Yates is a more than capable back-up currently with the potential to be a really good back-up, if not heir apparent to Matt Schaub.

[xcrunner51]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Hey Now! again."

[cardpire]

But, since you mentioned it: anyone on the forum who disagrees, please chime in.

lol...you really think that a lack of response to that by people would make you right and mean that everybody agrees with you? surely you are intelligent enough to know how foolish that is.


I’ve now seen you do this twice in this thread; it's another bad habit: If YOU think signing a back-up QB is a top priority and that we can do so by releasing Jacoby Jones (which is perfectl viable), then it’s up to YOU - not me - to list, name, etc., alternatives. I’m perfectly content keeping TJ Yates – my position doesn’t require releasing anyone and finding a replacement for our WR3 + PR1.

i don't have to give examples of any FA wr's. you brought FA wr's up. my solution is to draft one to replace him. and unless there are zero FA wr's available, i'm confident that literally any single one that they signed would be a serviceable (at worst) replacement for jacoby jones. you have a bad habit of pretending that i avoid your questions.

But there’s no separation, cardpire. We had this same issue debating Manning – you want to run to a vacuum and pretend there’s no context. Donny has already called you out on it here; so, too, has macalu – this debate is grounded in: THEY HAVE NO MONEY.

dude, we are debating this in terms of salary cap...right now, as we speak. cut jacoby jones is talking about this with regard to the salary cap. so you can disregard that comment like i asked, because it's clearly distracting you, and quit attempting to rally the troops who "called me out on it". ok on this one too??

[cardpire]

And I contend – and the team agees with me, btw – that TJ Yates is a more than capable back-up currently with the potential to be a really good back-up, if not heir apparent to Matt Schaub.

Does that make you and them correct?

I contended last season that the Texans were throwing in the towel on their hopes of winning a Super Bowl by starting a 6th round rookie 3rd string QB instead of using Delhomme or pursuing Brett Favre. I disagreed with "the team" and was correct.

So, agreeing with the texans doesn't make your points. This is a team that has done a lot more wrong than right personnel-wise over the past decade.

[cardpire]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Hey Now! again."

you are entitled to your opinion.

[david_rocket]

So it’s your contention that with Young, Campbell, Henne, Feeley or Hill, we would have beaten Baltimore?


i absolutely do think we would have beaten them, yes.

really you think those QBs would have played better vs baltimore??
you are just dumb.

I still think jacoby jones lost that game, If jacoby jones doesnt fumble the 1st time, then the ravens doesnt have the ball and the 3 yard line and yates is not forced to throw a lot.

and you mentioned sage rosenfels
do you remember his game against the colts? winning 27-10 with 8 minutes to go, and he fumbled twice and he got an INT.

[cardpire]

really you think those QBs would have played better vs baltimore??
you are just dumb.

I still think jacoby jones lost that game, If jacoby jones doesnt fumble the 1st time, then the ravens doesnt have the ball and the 3 yard line and yates is not forced to throw a lot.

great point. a smart person would think that it would be more likely that they would have played worse than 17/35 for 150 yds, 0 tds, and 3 ints.
you are just smart.

you got even smarter in my mind when you mentioned that jacoby jones fumbling in the 1st quarter made tj yates play like **** the entire game. nobody in their right mind should expect a quarterback to overcome a first quarter fumble and play well the rest of the game, no matter who the quarterback is.

but, you became the smartest person who has ever posted when i combined these two examples of your brain power with your previous post, when you said that a qb who passed for 0 ints and 2 tds had just as bad of a game as a qb who passed for 3 ints and o tds.

i smell a future curer of cancer in you!!

[arkoe]

cardpire's so cute when he's angry.

[speedball]

VY would only be a distraction if Matt was playing awful...and if Matt is playing awful, that means he is getting hammered and the O line is not performing. In that case, I would love to have a guy like Vince come in to back off the linebackers and give Dre a chance to get open.

[david_rocket]

great point. a smart person would think that it would be more likely that they would have played worse than 17/35 for 150 yds, 0 tds, and 3 ints.
you are just smart.

you got even smarter in my mind when you mentioned that jacoby jones fumbling in the 1st quarter made tj yates play like **** the entire game. nobody in their right mind should expect a quarterback to overcome a first quarter fumble and play well the rest of the game, no matter who the quarterback is.

but, you became the smartest person who has ever posted when i combined these two examples of your brain power with your previous post, when you said that a qb who passed for 0 ints and 2 tds had just as bad of a game as a qb who passed for 3 ints and o tds.

i smell a future curer of cancer in you!!

yeah because its so hard to throw 3 INTs and 0 TDs against one of the top 3 defenses in the league, especially for Chad Henne, that in his career have more ints (37) than tds (31), and never had a season when he has more TDs than INTs, or aj feeley (career 28 TDs 31 INTs) or vince young (46 tds 51 ints).

or Vince young had against the tough team of seattle: 1 TD, 4 ints, imagine against baltimore?

why do you think Feeley have played for 4 teams?? because he sucks.

and I didnt say that yates and flacco had just as bad games, I said flacco didnt have a great game, and the defense/special teams set him up for the TDs.
and if flacco had a great game why ed reed called him out saying, he didnt have a good game.

[cardpire]

and I didnt say that yates and flacco had just as bad games, I said flacco didnt have a great game, and the defense/special teams set him up for the TDs.




flacco played bad that game:

flacco 14/27 176 yards 2 TDs
yates 17/35 184 yards 3 INTs

you then went on to show those stat-lines 2 more times somehow thinking they were comparably bad (or good, of course, in Yates' case).

and if flacco had a great game why ed reed called him out saying, he didnt have a good game.

darn. great point. i knew you were sumpin' smart.

[rezdawg]

I'll take Yates, his potential, and his contract...no one else that is remotely available, gives us that.

[TheChosenOne]

Houston hints at desire for VY to be nowhere near the Texan s.

[Hey Now!]

lol...you really think that a lack of response to that by people would make you right and mean that everybody agrees with you?
I don’t think I’m “right” – no one is “right.” But has the total lack of support for your position given you any hesitation that perhaps you’ve overvalued the QBs you listed/undervalued TJ Yates?

my solution is to draft one to replace him.
That’s certainly viable. But you then cede control over the process. What if the 4 best WRs are gone before you pick? And then you still have to find a replacement for Brooks Reed; you could use some LB/S/CB/ depth/upgrades; your OL needs some depth, as does your DL. And you might need to find a TE/FB. And you still need a PR, plus possibly a kicker…

So by using up what little available cash you have on a back-up QB – a position you already have filled cheaply - those other holes become draft-day priorities, which you have no control over and a limited number of picks.

I contended last season that the Texans were throwing in the towel on their hopes of winning a Super Bowl by starting a 6th round rookie 3rd string QB instead of using Delhomme or pursuing Brett Favre. I disagreed with "the team" and was correct.
First of all, 5th round. Not that it matters, but…

cardpire… Look, cards on the table, man – I was among those that absolutely posted, “Shouldn’t they at least call Mississippi?…” when Schaub went down. I hated myself for asking but, like you, I feared a potential Super Bowl season was going to go to waste.

But here’s the deal - *any* back-up is going to greatly reduce our chances. And I think that’s where we’re disconnecting. Jake Delhomme dropped a 1 TD/5 INTs performance in his last playoff appearance – 5 years ago. They weren’t going to beat Baltimore with him any more than they would have with… Jason Campbell. Or Shaun Hill. Or AJ Feeley. Or, yes- TJ Yates.

But Yates has two very important things going for him: 1) cost; 2) potential. He’s been very good (twice against Cincinnati), or, at the very least, safe (Atlanta) enough to convince me that with a full offseason to build on his experience from last year, he’ll grow into a more than competent back-up QB; possibly with the potential to be Schaub’s heir apparent.

I would not trade him for any of the players you’ve listed and neither would the Texans. You don’t maintain championship-level teams by wasting resources on guys that will ride the bench if all goes according to plan.

[ima_drummer2k]

What kind of team would give up on a rookie QB because he had one bad playoff game? Especially one who isn't even supposed to be your starter?

Also:

Yates 2011 QB rating - 80.7
Young 2011 QB rating - 60.8

Yates career QB rating - 80.7
Young career QB rating - 74.4

Yates - warts and all - is just better.

[cardpire]

That’s certainly viable. But you then cede control over the process. What if the 4 best WRs are gone before you pick? And then you still have to find a replacement for Brooks Reed; you could use some LB/S/CB/ depth/upgrades; your OL needs some depth, as does your DL. And you might need to find a TE/FB. And you still need a PR, plus possibly a kicker…

So by using up what little available cash you have on a back-up QB – a position you already have filled cheaply - those other holes become draft-day priorities, which you have no control over and a limited number of picks.

you are assuming jacoby jones is only replaceable with a top 4 wr from the draft. i never said that. sure i'd prefer we finally get a top notch #2, but that's not what is necessary simply to fill the "void" that would be left bycutting jacoby.




cardpire… Look, cards on the table, man – I was among those that absolutely posted, “Shouldn’t they at least call Mississippi?…” when Schaub went down. I hated myself for asking but, like you, I feared a potential Super Bowl season was going to go to waste.

But here’s the deal - *any* back-up is going to greatly reduce our chances. And I think that’s where we’re disconnecting. Jake Delhomme dropped a 1 TD/5 INTs performance in his last playoff appearance – 5 years ago. They weren’t going to beat Baltimore with him any more than they would have with… Jason Campbell. Or Shaun Hill. Or AJ Feeley. Or, yes- TJ Yates.

i applaud you for being among the few who understands how sickening of a decision it was to waste away our playoff berth by unnecessarily turning over the reigns to tj yates, but i don't understand how you can both understand that, and still think all the things you said in the 2nd paragraph.

I would not trade him for any of the players you’ve listed and neither would the Texans. You don’t maintain championship-level teams by wasting resources on guys that will ride the bench if all goes according to plan.

so, you think the cowboys, bears, lions, the eagles last year, etc. made awful decisions by "wasting" resources to sign those veterans as backups? also, do you see a trend in those championship-level teams who are "wasting" resources on good backup qbs? those are teams that agree with me.

[cardpire]

What kind of team would give up on a rookie QB because he had one bad playoff game? Especially one who isn't even supposed to be your starter?

Also:

Yates 2011 QB rating - 80.7
Young 2011 QB rating - 60.8

Yates career QB rating - 80.7
Young career QB rating - 74.4

Yates - warts and all - is just better.

first of all, i never said they should give up on him, i said that i do not want to see him on the field this season if schaub were to get hurt.

second of all, why do you think QB rating is the end-all to any debate? it's a flawed metric.

to put things into perspective as simply as possible: sam bradford and colt mccoy had awful qbr's too last year. do you think they would have equally awful ratings if they were the starting qb of the texans?

[rolyat93]

Vince Young is terrible and comes with too much baggage if he lands in Houston. If you told me to choose between TJ and VY I'll take TJ all day.

[Hey Now!]

but i don't understand how you can both understand that, and still think all the things you said in the 2nd paragraph.
I think you’re putting way too much stock into the back-up QB. If Matt Schaub gets hurt again, our chances take a sharp detour into the nearest ditch, regardless of who the back-up is. Jake Delhomme guarantees you absolutely nothing; he’s every bit as capable of turning in the same bad performance as Yates did against Baltimore.

And yes, I formed an opinion before seeing Yates. Having seen him start eight games, the kid has potential. I truly believe he'll grow into a competent back-up this year.

so, you think the cowboys, bears, lions, the eagles last year, etc. made awful decisions by "wasting" resources to sign those veterans as backups? also, do you see a trend in those championship-level teams who are "wasting" resources on good backup qbs? those are teams that agree with me.
Let’s reset – I’ve never argued against having a competent back-up: It is absolutely vital in this day and age. Where we differ: I believe the Texans have a competent back-up already; one I would rate as good, if not better than the QBs signed by the teams you mentioned. (Orton is probably the exception; but he was also far and away the most expensive and thus never an option for the Texans.)

The Bears are an interesting comparison – both teams were 7-3 last year when they lost their QBs. The Texans finished 3-3 (including an exhibition loss to the Titans in which Yates played a series), won their division, won a playoff game, and took the #2 seed on the road down to the final play of the game. The Bears went 1-5 with two QBs who couldn’t post a 70+ QBR. I guarantee you – the Bears would have killed Mike Ditka to have a back-up play as competently as TJ Yates did.

So they *had* to find a viable back-up. In terms of resources – they likely had more $$$ than the Texans (which is why it’s disingenuous to include them and the others – it’s not apples to apples; again, the Texans are out of money, these other teams have better cap situations) – but yes, overall, I would argue they wasted money on Jason Campbell, who might be better than McNown/Heine but is still, in his own right, terrible.

Also, I find it interesting you listed the Eagles, who signed a guy you’re mentioning for the Texans – Philadelphia went 1-2 in Baby Vince’s three starts with 4TDs/8 INTs and a QBR of 60.8, including a loss to 7-9 Seattle; beat them, they win the division. That you think *he’s* an upgrade over TJ Yates, who steered a team to a division championship, beat three playoff teams and was 4-4 overall, speaks to there being a blind spot with you toward Yates.

He’s better than you think he is, and better than his one terrible afternoon in Baltimore. You're putting much too much stock in a really bad day.

[Hey Now!]

BTW...
you are assuming jacoby jones is only replaceable with a top 4 wr from the draft. i never said that. sure i'd prefer we finally get a top notch #2, but that's not what is necessary simply to fill the "void" that would be left bycutting jacoby.
If you cut Jacoby, you'd be left with 2 WRs on the roster. So, point taken - it doesn't have to be a top pick - but now you're looking for 2-3 WRs. Again, it's a matter of prioritizing resources. Who's more likely to see the field next year - your 3rd WR or back-up QB? Your 4th WR or back-up QB?

[cardpire]

So they *had* to find a viable back-up. In terms of resources – they likely had more $$$ than the Texans (which is why it’s disingenuous to include them and the others – it’s not apples to apples; again, the Texans are out of money, these other teams have better cap situations) – but yes, overall, I would argue they wasted money on Jason Campbell, who might be better than McNown/Heine but is still, in his own right, terrible.

no, you are contradicting yourself here, and it is apples to apples. unless the reason that teams with money to spend are allocating that money to a backup qb because they are unable to spend it on upgrading any position that will see game action every sunday beginning week 1 of the season, then, by your definition, they would be wasting resources.

we aren't talking about the cash-strapped texans in our scenario. we are saying that they hypothetically have $3million available to spend from cutting jacoby.

He’s better than you think he is, and better than his one terrible afternoon in Baltimore. You're putting much too much stock in a really bad day.

he might eventually be better than i think he is. my thoughts on him were dead on last year though. i don't think this of him only because of the ravens game. i thought, based on everything i saw in each game that he played, that it was complete madness to continue to start him, and make him our starting qb for the remainder of the season and postseason, sink or swim. he was reducing the best offense in the league to under 20 ppg. he was throwing more potential picks directly into the hands of opponents that they miraculously dropped than i've ever seen. save for the game-winning drive in cincy, nothing he did made him an upgrade over any stiff that they could have picked up off the street. i can't imagine that he will make appreciable improvements from that this year if his services are needed, and, more importantly, i certainly wouldn't bet on it.

i think many people in here are enamored by the fact that he was a rookie, managed us to a first round playoff win at home against the worst team in the playoffs who also started a rookie qb, and have hopes that he's the next big thing, because it's fun to get excited about rookies and dream about their potential. i'll stick to going with what my eyes saw.

[cardpire]

BTW...

If you cut Jacoby, you'd be left with 2 WRs on the roster. So, point taken - it doesn't have to be a top pick - but now you're looking for 2-3 WRs. Again, it's a matter of prioritizing resources. Who's more likely to see the field next year - your 3rd WR or back-up QB? Your 4th WR or back-up QB?

the texans haven't had a legit #2 receiver since their inception. you really think that their #4 wr should be a priority over their backup qb? lester jean is under contract, right? i'm perfectly fine going into the season with him as our #4 wr.

[Kam]

the texans haven't had a legit #2 receiver since their inception. you really think that their #4 wr should be a priority over their backup qb? lester jean is under contract, right? i'm perfectly fine going into the season with him as our #4 wr.



Your number 2 receiver has been a tight end or a dump off to a back.

[Hey Now!]

no, you are contradicting yourself here, and it is apples to apples. unless the reason that teams with money to spend are allocating that money to a backup qb because they are unable to spend it on upgrading any position that will see game action every sunday beginning week 1 of the season, then, by your definition, they would be wasting resources.
This is why I’m quick to jump back on point; when you push a very specific discussion toward a more general discussion, points get splintered and blurred and the debate starts to lose its way.

So let’s reset before this gets too fractured: I don’t believe the Texans, specifically, should spend limited resources on a back-up QB, in large part because I believe they already have a competent back-up QB on their roster.

Generally speaking, I think it’s important to have a competent back-up. If you don’t have one, *and* you have the cap room to sign an "expensive" one… cool, I guess. Having said that, I would argue that the group you’ve listed is horribly mediocre and not worth the money. And I wouldn’t trade TJ Yates for any of them.

my thoughts on him were dead on last year though.
He was, overall, a mediocre QB last year and you’ll never see me argue otherwise. That Kubiak managed 4 wins with him, including the playoffs, is remarkable.

BUT… there was enough potential flashed, IMO - especially given the unfortunate circumstances that accompanied Yates’ first season (lockout, no OTAs, shortened camp, etc.) – that with a full offseason to build on his experience from last year, Yates will grow into being a competent back-up with the potential to possibly be Schaub’s successor. Further, even as inconsistent as he was last year, I would argue he was as good as any of the scrubs you’ve mentioned - but with a higher ceiling, a younger age and a friendlier cap figure. The Texans would have gone no further with any of the QBs you've cited. With some, they wouldn't have gone as far.

i think many people in here are enamored by the fact that he was a rookie, managed us to a first round playoff win at home against the worst team in the playoffs who also started a rookie qb, and have hopes that he's the next big thing, because it's fun to get excited about rookies and dream about their potential. i'll stick to going with what my eyes saw.
That is *exactly* what people are enamored with; and you’re being awfully blind to dismiss it all and assume the book has been written on the guy. Further, it’s hard to take your eyes seriously when they apparently see Baby Vince, Jason Campbell, AJ Feeley, et al, as upgrades.

the texans haven't had a legit #2 receiver since their inception. you really think that their #4 wr should be a priority over their backup qb? lester jean is under contract, right? i'm perfectly fine going into the season with him as our #4 wr.
You and I very likely differ on the definition of a legit #2 and its importance – but if LeStar Jean is your 4th WR, and TJ Yates is your back-up QB, your receiving corps is a much greater concern that your QB position.

[cardpire]

That is *exactly* what people are enamored with; and you’re being awfully blind to dismiss it all and assume the book has been written on the guy. Further, it’s hard to take your eyes seriously when they apparently see Baby Vince, Jason Campbell, AJ Feeley, et al, as upgrades.

i never said the book was written on him. i said i do not want him as our qb if schaub gets hurt this year.

and, i dismiss what yates did last year to a far, far lesser extent than everybody who dismisses vince young's 30-18 career record as insignificant.

and how is jason campbell not an upgrade over tj yates by any measure?? that's homerism at its finest. he's been good on 2 different teams with complete garbage receivers and offenses to work with.



You and I very likely differ on the definition of a legit #2 and its importance – but if LeStar Jean is your 4th WR, and TJ Yates is your back-up QB, your receiving corps is a much greater concern that your QB position.

i don't understand...are you saying it's important to have a good #4 wr? i also don't understand what this implies that your views are on the importance of a legit #2.

[Hey Now!]

i never said the book was written on him. i said i do not want him as our qb if schaub gets hurt this year.
When you say something like this:
i think many people in here are enamored by the fact that he was a rookie, managed us to a first round playoff win at home against the worst team in the playoffs who also started a rookie qb, and have hopes that he's the next big thing, because it's fun to get excited about rookies and dream about their potential. i'll stick to going with what my eyes saw.

It absolutely, postively sounds like you've drawn a conclusion about the guy. I'm struggling to find different ways to read that.

and, i dismiss what yates did last year to a far, far lesser extent than everybody who dismisses vince young's 30-18 career record as insignificant.
Neither was a critical factor, frankly. Vince Young is a lousy NFL QB - bad attitude, selfish, entitled... why would you rather have that guy than TJ Yates?

and how is jason campbell not an upgrade over tj yates by any measure?? that's homerism at its finest. he's been good on 2 different teams with complete garbage receivers and offenses to work with.
First of all, you need to take a step back and consider that you're comparing a 7-year veteran picked in the first round to a 5th round rookie... that pretty much sums up Jason Campbell's career.

Additionally, "good" is certainly subjective - but 82 is the median for NFL QBRs; Campbell's career QBR is 82.8. He's ever-so slightly above-average. In relation to Yates, Campbell's completion % is lower; his YPA is lower; his winning % is lower; 2 points separate their QBRs....... and - again, one is a former first round pick who has 70 career starts; the other is a 5th round third string rookie.

Further, and you do this *a lot* - you can't have this discussion without also considering: age, potential and salary. Even if we could scientifically prove that Campbell was an upgrade.... it's not enough to cancel out Yates' other advantages, which are significant.

i don't understand...are you saying it's important to have a good #4 wr? i also don't understand what this implies that your views are on the importance of a legit #2.
It's important to have a better #4WR than LeStar Jean.

Fans here don't understand Kubiak's system and overrate "#2 WR." They already have a legit #2 WR; his name is Owen Daniels. #3, too: Arian Foster. This offense isn't built traditionally. Walter's job is to block, first and foremost, and catch everything underneath secondly.

[cardpire]

Further, and you do this *a lot* - you can't have this discussion without also considering: age, potential and salary. Even if we could scientifically prove that Campbell was an upgrade.... it's not enough to cancel out Yates' other advantages, which are significant.

YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT HIS F'ING SKILL LEVEL. You said "It is hard to take my eyes seriously when they apparently see ....Jason Campbell...as upgrades".

that has nothing to do with age, potential, and salary. you are saying right there that he is a terrible qb and that one would have to be nuts to see him play and still think he is better than TJ Yates. and when you realized you might not have any clue if jason campbell was good or bad, you did some quick research, pulled out your trusty, flawed qbr, and when that basically failed you, you resorted to "wait a minute, what about age and salary?". ( and by the way, he's on a 1 year, $1.5 million salary, which would be absolutely perfect for us, so you can swallow that argument too, even though you were just using it in attempt to duck out of ignorantly professing that jason campbell is terrible)

jason campbell is LIGHTYEARS better than Yates is right now. that isn't even a debate. he put up that qb rating over 7 years of throwing to nobodies in absolute trainwrecks of offenses. tj yates put up a worse qbr over a 6-game span in the most qbr friendly offense in football. nobody outside of a complete homer would think that tj yates is currently a better qb than jason campbell.

[cardpire]

Fans here don't understand Kubiak's system and overrate "#2 WR." They already have a legit #2 WR; his name is Owen Daniels. #3, too: Arian Foster. This offense isn't built traditionally. Walter's job is to block, first and foremost, and catch everything underneath secondly.

exactly. so why on earth is it even remotely important to have a better 4th WR (actual WR) than Lestar Jean? don't really understand what you are saying. or, i do, but it doesn't make any sense.

[DonkeyMagic]

http://shikagoland.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/beating-a-dead-horse.gif

[Uprising]

http://shikagoland.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/beating-a-dead-horse.gif

LOL! That gif is awesome.

*must spread rep around....

[J.R.]

Awesome gif indeed :grin:

'Vince Young would love to be a Texan' (http://houston.cbslocal.com/2012/04/11/vince-young-would-love-to-be-a-texan/)

How he would (http://sportsradiointerviews.com/2012/04/12/vince-young-nfl-houston-texan/) feel about playing in Houston with the Texans:

“I would love to play at home. That would be a dream come true and anything I can do to help out with the team, I just saw Arian Foster the other day and gave him a lot of respect when I saw him and just a lot of history with some of the guys around town anyway that I know from knowing each other a while and always keeping in contact with each other, come to my foundation and charity events and football camps so that would be great. I just let Tom take care of that and let him do his job. All I can do is just stay ready, keep working out and training in Houston and waiting for that opportunity to come.”

[Fyreball]

Awesome gif indeed :grin:

'Vince Young would love to be a Texan' (http://houston.cbslocal.com/2012/04/11/vince-young-would-love-to-be-a-texan/)

How he would (http://sportsradiointerviews.com/2012/04/12/vince-young-nfl-houston-texan/) feel about playing in Houston with the Texans:

“I would love to play at home. That would be a dream come true and anything I can do to help out with the team, I just saw Arian Foster the other day and gave him a lot of respect when I saw him and just a lot of history with some of the guys around town anyway that I know from knowing each other a while and always keeping in contact with each other, come to my foundation and charity events and football camps so that would be great. I just let Tom take care of that and let him do his job. All I can do is just stay ready, keep working out and training in Houston and waiting for that opportunity to come.”

Ahhhh, why Hsf, WHY?!? I thought this thread was finally dead!

[J.R.]

Haha sorry :o