Some Availables Accross the League

[popeye]

I wrote this two nights ago and forgot to post it.

Availables Accross the League:

1.Chris Mills due to redundancy at his position(G). Donyell Marshall due to ... well ... whatever? But get this ... Erick Dampier may be also available. They will make roster moves very soon.
2.Pick anyone on the Knicks team except Allan Houston,Sprewell and maybe Camby(Big Maybe).
3.Leon Smith. Nuff said there.
4.Nash and Trent are being shopped. I would kill for Finley. There is a rumor(only a rumor) that Nelson is talking to Larry Brown about a Finley trade. Nelson is crazy. What else can you say.
5. Larry Brown has made Rat and Hill "trade available"(again)as they move through the early schedule. Hughes has caused so much problems that Brown (definitely in his last year before going up to GM in my opinion,anyway) would probaly trade Hughes for a lot less than what he is worth. I have liked McCulloch for a while and love his big presence and soft touch around the basket.His best attribute so far this season ... he's game smart and can play some pretty decent pressure defense.If the Knicks had anything Larry Brown would want (or afford), then McCulloch would have been traded to them. Larry Bird also knows and likes McCulloch. Watch for trades in that direction. Sixers and Pacers.
6. What is LA Lakers going to do? They need some meat in the PF position.AC just will not last the season banging away with the rest of the fours in the league. Rice is getting more expendable. Shaq has blown up yet again in LA. He and Phil had a little tiff at practice the other day,that carried over into the next day. Beginning to sound more like "Peyton Place" or "How The Stomach Turns" soaps.
7. Toronto is in the hunt again as they have asked permission to speak to Hughes in PA. Brown has not said yes. He hasn't said No, either. Curious though ... who would they trade. All the guys they shopped this summer: K Willis, McGrady, Christie are all doing great and playing as a team. Davis?
8. Coleman has pretty well lost any good graces he had left and the management are searching for a "beneficial trade for everyone". Wonder if that comes with a "Get Out Of Jail FREE" card?
9. Mitch Richmond has been shooting terrible lately and his shot selection has been forced lately. They are getting impatient.His salary is something like $4.5M. Close enough to a Walt Williams and K. Thomas package to be tempting. Just what we need ... another player in a shooting slump. Honestly though ... he has such great upside. he get out of his slump.
10. Boston feels like they are only one player away from carrying the East this year. They are ripe for plucking,IMHO. Coach will be Coach no more unless he produces some numbers. He would go for almost anything that resembled a forward that defend and score. well, duh, that sounds like we may need a couple ourselves. LOL

Cheers. http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by popeye (edited November 19, 1999).]

[rocketsfan34]

Thanks popeye..much appreciated. Any trades involving Mack?

[4chuckie]

Thanks Popeye, good info!

[popeye]

Sorry, should have addressed the Mack thing. Forgot.

Last I heard, and this is a couple of days old, three teams have persistently contacted Mack and his agent. Warriors, Hornets & Miami.Also, Pacers were at one time, very interested in him. Out of the these teams I think only the Warriors and Hornets are serious. This is only speculation on my part,but a deal involving D.Marshall or C. Mills is not totally out of the question.

Remember: 1. the Rockets have made an offer for Mack if he wants it. 2. Also, a sign and trade instead of an independent free agent signing would transfer his Bird Rights and be beneficial to both us and him,including possibly a thicker deal. 3. The ability to re-trade someone after signing him at this time of the year is drastically reduced.So, if we just go ahead and sign Sam now, we better be sure we are ging to keep him.

Offers are sparse as all the teams are tightening up waiting for the inevitable movement of players after the start of the schedule. When this starts, usually by the fifteen to twenty games mark, the level of players that change hands are sometimes quite high in quality. Sometimes not.

Usually this need to change your team roster for real or perceived problems blows over and only a fraction of teams make the roster changes. The key is to see who needs what and how badly. Be patient and fill your holes with the best out there. In my opinion, that is what is keeping the Rockets from signing him right now.

By Christmas deadline we get another little spurt of trades. By that time, the talent of the players you signed in October, etc... are known and you have a better idea of what you want to go with the second half.

That's the plan anyway.

[CaucasionSensation]

Popeye the tradeologist, we love you man!

First, can't we up our offer to Sam the man.
Second, do you know of anybody the Rockets have actively talked to.
Third, Nelson may be crazy, buy he has assembled a team that is deep, athletic, and tall. They are better than the Rockets for the first time since they had Rolondo Blackman, Derek Harper, and Roy Tarpley all playing well.

Fouth, I may be the only one here who believes this but who still wants Cat, or Anderson, or Williams, or Drew. If trading anybody here could bring us something to make us better I'm all for it. Throw in Rogers or the never used Kenny Thomas, I don't care, I just want to win.

Fifth, I thought LA liked K. Thomas alot. How about a swap of K. Thomas for Devean George. We could use George, but we won't even give Thomas any playing time.

[Almu]

Well, I heard about the Shaq deal. But I got one that I have kept quiet for about...3 weeks. This is from a big time guy/client that I had good communication with until 2 weeks ago when our contract ended.

Anyway, this is a Pippen thing. Supposedly, Pippen will end up with the Lakers no matter what. Of course, it will be Glen Rice and change for Pip.

According to my man, he said that Pippen is dead set on going to LA(got the house there still) and Phil still covets the overrated jerk. The problem is the owner of the Lakers does not want to bring Pippen to LA because he feels that it will undermine West who feels the Lakers don't need him and that Pippen is overpayed. Buss doesn't want him. But Phil does. Pippen does like Portland, but he just wants to go to LA for some reason.

This guy has never lied to me before. He actually gave me great inside stuff before and I truly think he is certain of this.

As long as he doesn't end up here, I really don't care where he goes. Hopefully, he ends up in LA...with the Clips.

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Live Rocketball. Breathe Rocketball. Die with Rocketball.


[This message has been edited by Almu (edited November 19, 1999).]

[No Worries]

Good post pops!

I don't see any players besides, Hughes, that the Rocks would be that interested in. To get Hughes the Rocks may have to part with a lot of talent (Mobley for sure?)

Our biggest problem area (which can only be addressed via a trade) is a veteran back up point. The closest thing to that in your list is Nash who I am not completely sold on (though he is better than Drew).

Our other big concern is our outside shooting. Mobley, Anderson, Drew, and Williams (since his fouls keep his shots on the bench) have not got the job done. I have hope for the first three to get out of their slumps. There is no hope for Williams' D.

I can not believe that Richmond is on the trading block. Could any team be that stupid? Of course if Nelson is seriously considering a Finley trade ...

[Plowman]

I would love to have Dampier and Hughes.Finley is a pipe dream.........but you never know!

[rocketsfan34]

How badly do the teams want to trade Hughes, Dampier and Mitch? How badly? Mitch for Walt and Thomas, you serious? The Wizards would consider that? Is it possible to get Dampier with Mack?

[haven]

Mobley isn't a "lot of talent." If I could trade Mobley and Drew for Hughes I would do so in second. Hell, Walt Williams for Hughes sounds great... or how about Rogers and Mobley for Hughes? I think there may be several possible combinations should his trade value be diminished.

[Mr. Maloney]

Few things:

1)Richmond's salary is $10M, not 4.5M

2)Erick Dampier is injured, for the 2nd time in two monthes he underwent a surgery (http://cbs.sportsline.com/u/ce/multi/0,1329,1593873_54,00.html)...
But even if he was healthy, I don't think we need ANOTHER OVERPAID CENTER on our bench.

3)Why do you think that the Mavericks would want to trade Trent.
Is contract is only 2yrs/$4.2M, who would they get for that?!

[Scarface]

Why would we even be considering Dampier? I have watched his game for three years now he has sucked every opportunity he has had to suck. The guy has no defensive presence in the middle people would drive on the Warriors last year as if Muggsy Bouges were there center. The guy stinks and I don't think even the great Bryce Drew is that bad, ummm if it weren't for Dampiers contract I would do the trade in an instant. The mack for Mills and Marshall trade would be great since it doesn't look like we are going to run anytime soon, thus Marshall would be a GREAT pickup and getting Mills whos shooting lights out, I might add would help our perimeter game, however I find it hard to believe an organization as stupid as the Warriors would even trade their only shooter right now, with Starks and Pj not getting along very well right now. Just my observation living in the bay area and going to most of their games so far this season.

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"We need to fockass".....Dream back in the day

[GermanRocket]

Finally a really good thread with some substance in it. Caucasian, you forgot that Schrempf was on that team, too. Also, I think something needs to happen. We cannot go on like that. From what I have seen of him in a Rockets uniform, I now think Walt Williams is a lousy player. Name the teams that he has made a winning impact on. He might have skills, but he is lazy and doesn't put up a fight. I don't like players like that. Cat is the opposite - he might be streaky and right now he is in a slump, but at least he has some heart.
Okay, out of all the players you mentioned, I think we should try to get...maybe Richmond. I don't really think any of the others could help us right now. And as I see it, the $ 4.5 million number is wrong and then 10 million that were mentioned are correct. No chance to get him.
We should do anything we possibly can to get Derek Harper. Also, we should sign Sam Mack finally, so that we have at least SOMEONE who can nail the three.

[thacabbage]

*Mitch Richmond: Hell NO. We are rebuilding right now, we don't need any more old-time has-beens. We need to look toward the future. Even if we were looking towards now, I think Shandon Anderson, is a much more productive player at this stage in their respective careers. Richmond is also making $10 million, and it would take a lot more than just WW and Tmass to get him.

*Marshall, Mills, and Dampier: Hell NO again, to all of them. Mills and Dampier are decent but their salaries are not. I think Mills is slated at around $4-$5 mill, and I know that Dampier signed a rich contract extension this summer. Marshall is absolutely horrible, and is the slowest small forward I have ever seen.

*Larry Hughes: This guy is phenomenal. I got a chance to watch him play in the preseason. Let me tell you that a Francis/Hughes backcourt would be nearly impossible to defend in a year or so. I think Mobley and Rogers may be enough to get him to Houston. Then move Shandon to small forward.

*Theo Ratliff: Would love to get him too. Though, I think it would take atleast Mobley to get this guy. If we were to trade Mobley, I would rather have Hughes. I would love to see a huge trade which sent both Ratliff AND Hughes to Houston. That would just be phenomenal for the Rockets. It would probably take something like Mobley+Drew+Rogers+TMass+Walt+draft pick. I would certainly do that, but I don't see it happening. Damn, that would be the dream lineup. Two defensive minded big men in Ratliff and Cato, with the quick perimeter of Anderson, Francis, and Hughes. Damn, too bad it will never happen.

*McGrady: Still would like to get this guy. Don't see it happening though, seeing that the Raptors could get Hughes for him if they wanted.

*Walt Williams: Trade him, do whatever you want with him, but the thing I am noticing is that our running game is much better when he is on the bench.

[This message has been edited by thacabbage (edited November 19, 1999).]

[4chuckie]

Mitch Richmond is interesting. Be nice to place him w/ francis. Could be interesting. Is the previous note correct with salary (4.5 mil or 10).

Also I do like G. Trent, he is an Athletic forward. He seems like a more offensive T-mass.

[fromobile]

Mich Richmond would make the shots that Walt Williams misses. I have a feeling that on the Rockets every thing he would put up would go in. He would be nice. That's a Rudy move, too. He likes to pull the trigger, you know.

[rocketsfan34]

Cabbage-At the rate we are going we are going to get a high pick. High lottery picks have been known to create impossible trades.

Hughes and Theo seem far-fetched now, but everyone in the league thinks we are lottery bound. I'm sure we can get Hughes with Cat but Theo is pushing it.

Francis and Hughes, just scary. I was drooling over Francis Dickerson. The question is, "How badly does Philly want to trade Hughes?"

[Rudyball]

We are in desperate need of some shooters who can run the floor w/ Francis. 10 more games and they sign Mack.

[thacabbage]

Damn, I forgot that our draft pick will most likely be a lotter pick. Forget that then, because we would just be giving up way too much. That's like trading Chris Porter, Cuttino Mobley, and Carlos Rogers for Hughes and Ratliff. Giving up way too much.

But yea, I too was looking forward to a Francis-Dickerson backcourt. Hughes and Francis would be incredible.

[rocketsfan34]

In my eyes, if Rudy can pull off a Cat for Hughes trade, I gotta give him his props. A second rounder for a lottery pick? That's too good to be true. Rudy has already did a 14 pick and second rounder for a number 2 franchise player. What can he do next?

[CaucasionSensation]

Great post Cabbage,

It's interesting that you so firmly believe the Rocks are already going through rebuilding. I think they just thought they could have it both ways. By letting Drew and Mobley time to grow they have not been playing for the present. Williams we should be looking to trade as the GermanRocket, chimed in. I would love to get even younger. By the way if our current winning percentage continues 20% will we have that lottery pick come draft dsy or is it already gone? Somebody help me out on this.

[University Blue]

Tomjanovich might have input on player movement, but it's Dawson that handles trade negotiations.

[Plowman]

Hughes and Ratliff(who is injured) are athletic as all hell.Mitch is hurting though.He has been slowed by injuries and is too old.I heard that knee surgery is needed.

[Caveman]

Popeye
Basketball seems as a game of Tradings to you. How about no more trades for this season and try to improve the team with their current personnel?

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Rockets' biggest problem is not player talent levels, it is the coach's ineptitude.

[popeye]

Mr. Maloney
1.Mitch Richmond signed 9/99 as $20M over 4 years(to 2003). There was an incentive package but $4.5M is counted against this year.
2.Erick Dampier is indeed injured that would make him more available wouldn't it? I hear that they want instant offense. Trading an injured player wouild seem to do that.
3.Name the overpaid center. Hakeem? T.Hamilton at minimum? Cato is a PF/C. Who are you talking about?
4.Trent is pouting. Nelson can't bear to be in the same room as him. Nelson is trade happy now. Need anything else be said.

By the way I only posted the available players. I would endorse only a few. Read my post,please. If you don't want Dallas to trade Trent then call Nellie.

Scarface
"This is only speculation on my part,but a deal involving D.Marshall or C. Mills is not totally out of the question."

As noted Mack was mentioned as speculation for EITHER of the guys not both. It is not a foregone conclusion, it was speculation. I would prefer Mills myself. And I would not give up Mobes to get him either. we would never get, nor do we need both these guys.

German Rocket
Like your thinking. I will go out on a limb and say that Harper would give so much stability, that we would improve by leaps and bounds instantly if he were signed. Harper and CD have been talking, too!

Cabbage
Your new found faith in the "rebuilding Rockets" is refreshing and you are also scaring me,man. Just kidding. LOL Mitch has some up. And to repeat, Mitch only makes $4.5M this year and up to $5 Million/yr until 2003. For Walt's $5M and either Drew or Mobes?

Caveman
"Basketball seems as a game of Tradings to you.

1. As you may or may not know, pro sports is not static,it constantly changes. Trades are, and will continue to be a part of it. Live with it. Get on with your life if you don't want trades in your sport. PS: read the page heading "Rockets 2000: Game Action & Roster Moves" You may be on the wrong BBS,man.
2. By the way, what do you know what Basketball is or is not to me?
3. Read number three below.

"How about no more trades for this season and try to improve the team with their current personnel?"

1.I have no say one way or another who gets traded or who plays. Do you? What is your point?
2.If I did have a say,I would agree that less may be more as far as trades go right now. But, moving your team along with a timley trade is what good GM's do. CD is a good GM.
3.Piss off. How about that?

For the Record

I would love to have McGrady, Finley, Van Horn, Hughes, Harper, Richmond, Dampier, Mack and Mills . In that order. None of that is going to happen. Harper is the only one we are even close to acquiring. And I would love to be able to keep Cuttino and Carlos. Walt has soured a bit in my books and he may have to go with K.Thomas in any trade anyway.

[This message has been edited by popeye (edited November 19, 1999).]

[BoyhoodDream]

You know who else might be available that I think would be perfect for the Rocks. Cliff Robinson of the Suns. He can play 3 positions. He can run and play well in the half court offense. He is a good three point shooter. He is tall. He has plenty of playoff experience. He can block shots. Since Marion is starting, maybe the Suns will be looking to move him.

[rocketsfan34]

What about Hughes? Still haven't answered that. How much would it take to get him? Cat + Kenny?

BTW, I heard of a Marshall/Gill rumor. Is there any possibility of Gill coming here?

[popeye]

Boyhood
Cliff has a four year contract(to 2003) worth around $6.5M. He has some inside bang and a good outside threat. He has more D than Walt. But it would take at least Mobes and Walt with a pick to get him IMHO. I would hate to lose Mobley. I know I am probably a minority (along with CabbageHead), but unloading Mobes would be disasterous without another 1/2 Guard.

Drew has improved in my opinion, but he scares me sometimes. I would hate to have him the only back-up to Francis.

RF34
Hughes would be on my wish list. And he is going to be available. The Sixers team had a players only meeting recently and he wasn't invited. What does that tell you. I personally don't think we have what Brown wants. Again, to repeat, if we have to unload a guard, please God let it be Drew and not Mobes. If it is Cuttino, I hope we have Harper or some other veteran(Charlie Ward is available,but he's far over priced).
A Hughes/Francis backcourt or a platooning system with them taking turns playing the off guard ... that would be deadly. Death from Above. AirCav time,brother man.

[rocketsfan34]

I also would rather give up Drew then Mobes, but you gotta give talent to get back talent. Although it would involve more people or picks, I'm was thinking along the lines of swapping mobes for hughes. We don't get the veteren guard, but we get one hell of a backcourt in Francis Hughes.

Are there any other veteren guards other than Harper who are on the block. Any realistic ones?

[Francis3]

What Happens to Shandon Anderson?

[IWannaBeLikeDream]

Carlos Rogers is not someone I want to trade, he looks pretty good so far. Mobley has good attitude, so don't cast these guys away as scrubs.

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"Not NOW, Cato!!!"
-Kevin Calabro, Sonics Commentator

[Caveman]

Is Popeye Jones avalible?

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Rockets' biggest problem is not player talent levels, it is the coach's ineptitude.

[BoyhoodDream]

Thanks Pops, I had no idea about Cliff Robinsons contract status.

[Francis3]

Why would we get Popeye Jones.. He plays PF.
And he sucks.

The ONE PLAYER... I would want to get..

TRACY McGRADY!

[SamCassell]

I can't see us picking up Hughes, though I like his potential. Rudy promised the starting 2 spot to Shandon, and I can't see Larry coming in as the backup (too much of an ego). No Mitch for the same reason.

[popeye]

Well I could see Mitch playing the 3. That would look after the Shandon/Mitch problem with Shandon exclusive at the 2.

Hughes and Francis playing switch-about at the 1/2 would give every team we play this year absolute fits. Who would they cover and with who? Shandon would go to the 3 on most matchups(not all, as he would have trouble with some of the beefier guys).

Like I said: "Death from Above". Air Cav all the way.

Veterans on the bubble: Childs, Ward(yep,both of them), Hughes, Christie(if Hughes goes to Toronto,and that's a great possibility), Harper, Nash, C.Mills, Starks (he's in trouble with the coast coach, again), JR Rider ..... There is enough out there to make the next couple of weeks very interesting.

Tracy McGrady: Number one on my list if he was available. But again we don't have the horses to trade and it is not known whether he is even available. Cabbage would have a coronary if he Tracy put on a Rockets Uni. I may not be far from it myself.



[This message has been edited by popeye (edited November 19, 1999).]

[thedreamshake99]

Bluto basher...No Im almost certain it was a 4 year 40 million dollar deal that was back laiden making him around 9 million this and next year.

Living in the Washington area, all I heard about is how much the Wizards really didn't want to give him this much, but due to a lack of free agents, an unwillingness for teams to take on that amount in a sign and trade, and the thought of loosing him a C Webb for nothing forced their hand.

[Air Francis]

Mitch Richmond with Francis at the 2 and Anderson at the 3 sounds good to me. Rogers can switch with Anderson if there is a big 3 on the other team.

I would be surprised if we could get Hughes or McGrady especially as cheaply as we can get Richmond. We would still have Mobley too.



[This message has been edited by Air Francis (edited November 19, 1999).]

[CaucasionSensation]

I would love to get Cedric Ceballos, he just kills us. Somebody mentioned Cliff Robinson, but I really like Ced better.

Anybody should be expendable at this point.
All the 2'S, 3's, Drew and K Thomas, Bullard could be a good filler for somebody out there. He always is.

Also Popeye how much is Hughes contract and who would a Hughes scenario involve. I think Mobley and Kenny Thomas for him would be an absolute steal. A guard who shoots well 1 in 6 games, and a 12th man, who only sees the floor from the bench.

Again, why don't we offer Kenny Thomas to L.A. for Devean George?

[thacabbage]

Popeye:

I would be willing to bet away everything I own that Richmond makes somewhere in the vicinity of $10 million. I remember reading this summer so much about how he wasn't worth the money etc. If I'm not mistaken, I believe it was a 5 year, $50 million deal.

Besides, we don't need Richmond. God, I would have a heart attack if we did something so stupid. Trade young talent for old, overpaid players. This is rebuilding. If you are going to trade away young players like Mobley, then you must get a young player for the future. The cut-off age should be 26. No, that is pushing it. I would like to get in the 20-23 age range. Get another young stud to grow along with Francis. AND no middle-age players either. (middle age meaning 28-33).

I pretty much planned our future out http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/smile.gif. The way I see it, we have our point guard set in cement. Now, you have one big man in Cato set in stone. He can play either center of power forward, depends on who the other guy is. You put Shandon Anderson at the small forward. Then, we trade Mobley for a young player, oozing with talent. Tracy McGrady would be a huge pickup, allowing us to move Shandon back to the shooting guard. Larry Hughes would be even better. Damn, Hughes and Francis. Ouch. I want to run an inverted offense. We have Cato at center, who is primarily in there for defense. Then, I want to trade for/sign/draft a defensive minded power forward, young, someone like a Theo Ratliff. That gives you 2 defensive specialist big men to go with a quick athletic scoring perimeter. All in their early 20's. Then, off the bench, you have one to four more young guys, and round the rest of the bench out with extremely old veterans who know the ropes, and know how to control younger players. Sign them with your $1 million exceptions, so you won't have to trade valuable players for them.

The first couple of years will be rocky, but the veteran's advice will start to kick in, and sooner or later, you will have the young players coming into their own, and will have a contender on your hands. That's my plan anyways.

That's why I feel it is so important to trade Mobley this season. He is a very good player, but IMO, he won't be getting that much better. Package him with Carlos Rogers (who I like, but has value) for a young stud. One more thing, Walt Williams must go. No ifs, ands or buts, he is the only player on the Rockets which I absolutely cannot stand. Bryce Drew atleast tries hard.

Enough on that, thanks for keeping us updated Popeye. BTW, I would rather have Hughes than 'Grady, just for the record.

[thacabbage]

Oh yea, don't have too many good backups. Just have decent backups, who will know that this is the starter's team. We don't want any lockerroom problems.

[Stevie Wonder]

Hey Popeye, Ill take option number 9 for 200 please!! http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/smile.gif I would love to have Richmond. His pure stroke and defensive presence would be perfect for this team. I also think his personality and lockeroom presence would really go along ways in helping this team. This is the time in his life where a team like the Rockets could rejuvenate his career. Give him one last hope of a championship. He still got a couple of good years left. Anyways just wanted to chime in.

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Stevie Wonder says "they call him FRANCHISE because his dunks are for sale at an arena near you."

[SamCassell]

You're right, Pops. I could definitely see Mitch at the 3, given his strength and good size, even though he's played 2 his entire career. His and Shandon's games are different enough to make it work.

But what do you give up to get him? It would be tough, if he indeed makes $10 mil / yr (also I wouldnt want that cap headache). Barkley would be pretty much the only match, and I can't see him wanting to finish out a Wizard.

I like Hughes, but love McGrady. Somebody once said that all the great players are freaks of nature, and McGrady to me fits that description. 6'9", playing PG? 3 blocks a game (in 20 minutes) is awesome, and he is what, 19? 20? Promise the Raptors Mobley, Thomas, Drew, and a future #1 if you have to. He's gonna be an all-star in a few years for somebody.

[thacabbage]

Let me ask those of you who want Mitch Richmond so badly:

You guys do know that it will take atleast Mobley to reel this guy in. Let's be serious, the Wizards could get a lot more for Mitch than just Walt Williams and another player. You would have to give up Mobley. So then what happens? Sure, our chances of winning it all this year are greatly increased, but we still won't be at Portland's or LA's level. So, then what happens next year? You go in, and instead of being a young team on the rise, you are a team with one young superstar, and two aging vets taking up over 2/3 of your salary cap. The future is ruined as well as the present.

I think Larry Hughes would make a bigger impact for the present as well over Richmond. Like I said, a Hughes-Francis backcourt is undefendable. I would be willing to part with any combination of Mobley, Drew, TMass, Kenny Thomas, Walt Williams, Carlos Rogers, maybe even all of them if that is what it takes. Carlos Rogers is nice, but is replaceable. Potential stars are not.

[Rocket Fan]

anyone having any problems with their messages dispaearing or not getting posted? i know i posted on this topic earlier but now i dotn see it anywhere

[Stevie Wonder]

First off Cabbage we need shooting most importantly. Larry Hughes is not going to help us shoot the ball. Nor is he going to play good solid D. Those are the reasons he doesnt get alot of minutes on the Sixers. He is just going to add more athletiscm to an already athletic team. We need a skilled player, not one that is developing. We need a player that has already made his mark in the leauge, not one that is trying to. I personally would rather stick with Mobley, if we are even remotely thinking of Hughes. I doubt Rudy and CD are interested in Larry Hughes.

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Stevie Wonder says "they call him FRANCHISE because his dunks are for sale at an arena near you."

[Ace]

I'm sure Richmond is making $10 million a year.
I remember when he signed. He wanted to go to a contender, but the money was more important. It was the first big contract of his career.
Well, I guess the Wizards made a huge mistake. Please don't make us pay for it.

I wouldn't mind having him if we could trade him one good player plus a few scrubs.
However, his contract is just too damn huge. We would have too give up a lot of players to get him just to match salaries.

Plus, the guy is having a horrible season. He's averaging 9 points a game shooting at 30%. That's just what we need, a guy who's in a shooting slump.

Heck, he might not even be in a slump. Maybe he's just old. He's already 34. We would be taking on another Pippen.

We complained about Scottie when he was giving us quality defense, 15 pts., 6 boards, and 5 assists. He was shooting 40% or so.

How would we handle this guy? He's doing so much worse. At least Pippen did something.

You might make the argument that Pippen was just complaining too much and that's why he had to go. Fair enough, Mitch is a nicer guy but...
Remember when he played at Sacramento? The last year he was there you just couldn't stand him. He wanted a trade because he wasn't winning.
We are currently the crappiest team in the West. Imagine how he would complain if he came here.



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Francis+Charles+Dream-Pippen= Rockets 2000 NBA
Champions

[thacabbage]

First off Cabbage we need shooting most importantly. Larry Hughes is not going to help us shoot the ball. Nor is he going to play good solid D.

Who cares what we need now? We have no chance to win it all this year, so we might as well build up for the future. I can't begin to understand how some of you want this guy. It's like taking on the Pippen nightmare all over again. ALl a trade like accomplishes is bringing back the low-post game, creating a 1 year window of opportunity, while tieing up our future for the next 4 years.

Besides, if he comes here, he will have to play the small forward. The guy can't even shoot over 30% and score over 9 points against smaller shooting guards, you think he is going to be able to hang with the taller, more athletic 3's? Even if he could, paying 10 million to a borderline All-Star until he is 38 isn't something I want to get into. I would much rather just keep Mobley altogether rather than creating another window of oppotunity. Come on guys. The Barkley trade, the Scottie Pippen signing, all we have been doing over the last few years is throwing away our future for a shot at the present, and we haven't been able to get it done right now. Do you actually think a team of two role playing 37 year old's, a rookie point, and a 6'5 small forward (Richmond) is going to be able to hang with the Blazers or Lakers?

Enough of this. Let's be patient and bring in some young players and develop them along with Francis.

[BlastOff]

Those of you listening in to the KJR AM-Seattle for Rockets v. Sonics...can you guys believe some of the players around the league supposedly on the table for trade? For those who haven't heard here's a couple of the names being thrown around:

Dikembe, furious with Atlanta
Rod Strickland in Washington
Michael Finley in Dallas

They also mentioned many of the trades that Popeye told us about earlier in this thread (Chris Mills, McGrady, etc).

By the way, Matt Bullard is back from the IR. T. Hamilton has replaced him due to back problems. Matt was being interviewed by KJR when asked about the Rockets supposed "same post-up offense that you've ran for the past 5 years". Matt's response was that although the Rockets are learning more running plays to utilize the strength of our young guys, the post-up plays are still working (finding open shots, unfortunately not making them). He says despite our record, chemistry is great and he is confident that the wins will come over time.


[This message has been edited by BlastOff (edited November 20, 1999).]

[thacabbage]

I don't understand why Dallas wants to unload Finley. It has to be the other way around, with Michael wanting out of that NBA hell-hole.

The three biggest names on the block this season are Larry Hughes, Tracy McGrady, and Michael Finely, and I think they will all end up getting traded for each other. I just don't see any other team having enough to jump in there and nab one of them, though I hope the Rockets atleast try. Any one of them would be a phenomenal acquisition.

Look for Hughes to end up in Toronto to solve the point guard problem down there, with McGrady landing in either Dallas or Philly, and Finley going to the team McGrady doesn't end up with.

The Rockets really should try and jump in to the mix of things with any package of Mobley and Rogers. I can't remember players of this much quality being on the block in years. It has always been only one marquee name, but this year there are 3. In 97-98 there was Damon Stoudamire, last year Stephon Marbury.

We really should try our best and try to get one of these 3. It would be huge for the rebuilding process, and a trade like this might be enough to even jumpstart our season and boost us into the playoffs.

[Plowman]

Larry Hughes is only 20 years old and if developed in the right environment can be an all star in this league.He,like Francis,is a highlight film.If the Rockets could get him it would be a major coupe.The Sixers need front court help.I'd start with Mobley,Drew,and perhaps T-mass or Rogers for Hughes and a veteran point in some sort of 3 way deal.I like Eisley,Jackson,Harper,Pack,and Best.I do hate the idea of dealing Rogers.He has a lot of potential that he is finally starting to realize.If they would just give he and Cato the pt I feel everyone would be happy.He could be a future starter for us.If it took dealing him to get Hughes I would do it faster than the Rocks blow 4th quarter leads.
Ratliff is a player I've always coveted and if healthy would be an incredible acquisition.I just don't see with Philly depending on Theo and not having anyone else underneath,them parting with him.Now if we could get Dampier in a deal and send him on to Philly............???How about factoring Mack into all this.I say unless we can get one of the big names we sign and keep him.HH

[Stevie Wonder]

Im glad you can quote what I say, maybe you should listen to it a little more. If Iverson and Hughes can't mesh what makes you think Francis and Hughes can mesh? We have a future with the team we have now. There names are Francis and Cato. I don't want to dump this year just because we are off to a bad start. Play with what you have and if the result is the lottery than so be it. Hughes is just another athletic player with some potential, but I can name you several of those. Have you seen him play?, theres a reason a good coach like Larry Brown doesnt play him that much. He occasionally rots on the bench behind Aaron Mckie. If we are not going to be good this season, they need not make a trade for a player like Hughes just enter the lottery and draft a player. Don't lose Mobley for Hughes its not worth it. Mobley is further along in his development as a player than Hughes I can say that much. I'd rather take Mobleys heart than Hughes's attitude. Thats just my opinion don't take it the wrong way. I am also in the belief that Rudy and CD have no interest in a player like Hughes.

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Stevie Wonder says "they call him FRANCHISE because his dunks are for sale at an arena near you."

[Francis3]

Rudy doesnt have interest in him cause he cant shoot 3's and he cant pass the ball inside.

[thacabbage]

Stevie Wonder:

If Iverson and Hughes can't mesh what makes you think Francis and Hughes can mesh?

There is absolutely zero comparison between Allen Iverson and Steve Francis. Though Francis has the ability to score at will like Iverson, he looks to get his teammates involved.

Mobley is further along in his development than Hughes? I like Cuttino Mobley, but really...have you even seen Larry Hughes play? It's the other way around, Philly probably would never part with Hughes for just Mobley.

[rocketsfan34]

Cabbage is getting the whole point of gettin Hughes. We need to build for the future, not now. I would love to give a chance to chuck to get his ring but it ain't going to happen.

Francis has the talent like Iverson, but they use their ability differently. Francis usually uses his crossover to penetrate then dishes it off. Iverson, on the other hand, penetrates and then shoots. Hughes isn't the stand still shooting type to compliment Iverson. Hughes would work much better with Francis then Iverson.

I don't get you guys, why the the hell would we won't Mitch? He's an old veteren to help boost your chance at the playoffs. We are building for the future, not now. Look at the team and realize that.

There will be growing pains and stuff, but DO NOT make the same mistake like the lakers in trading away their future for a veteren. I can totally understand if you guys want to win now, but building toward the future is the wiser decision.

[thacabbage]

Exactly! Brilliant comparison. If the Lakers had just been patient and held on to Jones, they would have been by far the best team in the league. Instead, they were thinking about the present, and traded for Rice. Now, they are into this mess, because Rice is going to be asking for Pippen type money.

Be patient, and forget about now. We have a good young core. Let's add to it. Where will getting Richmond get us? We might be a little better with him this year, but not good enough to win the championship. Then, the whole future will be screwed. Frankly, we were very lucky to be able to unload Pippen's contract. Don't take it for granted and take on a similar scenario for Richmond who isn't even half the player Scottie Pippen is.

[Dr of Dunk]

Veggie Noggin,

I couldn't agree with you more. Look towards the future. One thing about the Iverson vs. Francis comparison. Francis WANTS to play the point guard (inferring he's willing to distribute the ball and wants to improve), whereas Iverson WANTS to score. I would love to get a Larry Hughes in here, but who would we be giving up to get him? Cuttino would definitely be #1, then... ???

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Rocket fuel pumps through these veins...

[popeye]

Have been away from my this thread and it has grown. Thanks to you guys for the input and quality debates.

1. The "Does He Doesn't He" debate was so adamant by some who I trust, that I rechecked with some people on the Mitch Richmond salary question. NBA.com calls it 4yr/$40M,but they are so notoriously wrong and misquoted. Pat Bender(who I trust implicitly) calls it 4/20 to 2003. I rechecked some newspaper files and a couple on line library sources. They called it 20M over 4 years net. I then called a media friend in New York and he said it was 4 years (1999 until 2003), with $5 Million a year salary, with $20 Million deferred @ a year to year basis. That means a signing deferment(not a bonus) of another $5 million a year for the four year life of the contract.
Sounds too legaleese to me! I say I was wrong and it was $10Million a year as some of you have said. Sorry for confusion.

2.Things are strange. if we knew two short few months ago that our starting line-up for this season would be: Hakeem, Charles, Walt Williams, S. Anderson, Steve Francis, and a bench that included: Cuttino, Cato, Carlos Rogers, Matt Bullard but minus Maloney, AND still have our $1.1 Million exception,AND everyone is relatively healthy, most of us,if not all, would have been very,very happy.

3.Mobes will come around. I would not sell him out yet.

4.I saw some evidence of explosiveness at the last two games that made me feel we are on the right track. The game last night( Seattle) the Sonics were playing to their absolute best. They had to play virtually a flawless game to beat us by three.

5.I DO NOT buy the Vin Baker out of the lineup business. Every team plays with some player handicap. Once we start winning, we will see Charles take another long "elbow rest". Bank on it. So if you want to call it uneven because Baker wasn't there then I counter that (a) Charles playing 'cause we needed him, evnthough he's hurt too (b) Foster getting into the teens would not have happened if Baker was playing (c) If Baker played, he may have had more points than Foster, but we would have played him differently also. He shys away when he gets two fouls on him. (d) Max beat us last night. Not GP, Not Foster, Not the bench. Max. He tends to do that to teams. Especially the last one and a half years.

6.IMHO we are one player away from some major leap in improvement. Someone like Harper would change things greatly. A big leap if we were lucky enough to get a defensive ( "D First") PF to platoon with Barkley/Cato when needed.

[BoyhoodDream]

Man I would love to have Brian Skinner.

[Francis3]

why?

[BoyhoodDream]

Why? Why? Do you not know who he is? He is a PF who can play some center. He is a terrific banger. He can rebound and block shots very very well. He can also score a bit. He is about a 15 points 11 rebound 2.5 blks, starter. I just really have grown fond of the guy. He is a very hard worker and plays great D.

I was responding to Popeye's last statement.

[Francis3]

ohh.

Didnt he go to U of H?

[BoyhoodDream]

No, I believe he went to Baylor. He was a rookie last year.

[bballfanatic]

Cliff Robinson for Walt and Cuttino? I would have to take that. I would take Cliff (if he isn't too old?? anyone know??) straight up for Kelvin myself if our objective is to win this year. Does Phoenix need Cuttino with Kidd and Penny? We need someone like Robinson or Cedric I will agree to that along with a back-up point guard like Derek Harper. I thought Cato would be like Cliff actually and he might be eventually.

Personally, I dread letting go of Cuttino but at least it would give Shandon his minutes back.

I think if we can get Derek Harper this would be a dramatic improvement. Other teams that have veteran back-up point guards seem to thrive.

Any other "minor" or "mid level" trade to get some defensive talent in here, I wouldn't be opposed to.

Untouchables - Dream, Chuck, Steve, Shandon.

Would hate to lose - Cuttino, Rogers.

For some reason, I don't think Bullard is going anywhere.

I do like Cato and think he has potential but...

Any trade value in Cato, Hamilton, K. Thomas, Drew and TMASS?

Cato and/or Thomas for Cliff Robinson or Cedric and also pick up Derek Harper?

I don't know much about trades and have no idea what salary these guys make.

Just an idea to throw in there.

Dream, Chuck/Cliff Robinson, Sam Mack/Rogers, Shandon, Steve/Derek Harper. I could live with that.

Dream, Chuck/Rogers or Cato, Cedric/Sam Mack, Shandon/Mobley or Drew, Steve/Derek Harper. I could live with that.

GO ROCKETS!

[bballfanatic]

Thanks Popeye!

[CaucasionSensation]

Untouchables- Dream, Chuck, Francis, Mobes maybe.

Richmond- no way. Best days behind him. Contract too big. Another geezer.

Hughes- I fail to see how we could get him. Sixers want substance not quantity.

McGrady- would be ripe for the picking if we had a decent backup point too offer, so basically I don't think so.

"They might say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one." - John Lennon (Imagine)

That's right folks word is out that a disgruntled Grant Hill is seeking out of the horrid Pistons, and the Pistons fearing they will get nothing for him are shopping him around the league, Spurs, Lakers, we will see.
http://sports.latimes.com/news/19991121/lat/19991121fjivlggy.html

He's certainly an interesting topic as he is a player of the present.

By the way I would trade for Cedric Ceballos over Clifford Robinson anyday. Talk about a guy that can run the floor. Is he out there, I don't thinks so, but who knows.

[thacabbage]

Clifford Robinson and Ced Ceballos are both somewhere from 30-32, so I'll pass. We're rebuilding, and I don't want to give Mobes up for anyone over 26 years of age.

Grant Hill is out of our range. Washington is dangling Howard and we can't offer anything close to that.

McGrady - Would offer Mobes, Rogers, anyone for this guy. He is going to be something special.

Hughes - I don't want him as much as I do McGrady, but I would still be willing to part with some major artillery to reel this guy in.

On another note. With the Lakers, Bullets, and Pistons all rumored to be involved in deals involving Hill, Rice, and Howard...imagine if we had held on to Pippen a little longer and waited for all of this to blow over. We might have been able to organize a 3-way sending Pip to LA, Hill to Houston, and Rice to Detroit. Damn.

[GermanRocket]

Hi Cabbage, one thing that strikes me whenever I read your posts (which are almost always interesting) is that you seem to think that "rebuilding" means that no player you get should be older than 23. I think you even explicitly stated that. I don't think so. Most players reach their prime in their late twenties, sometimes early thirties. So you want to lose for 5 years until they are ready? Nah. You need the right mix between young and old. It MIGHT be that right now, we have some players which are too old and some which are too young. It would not help us to get only young players. I'd rather have a 30-year old (?) Cliff Robinson than a 20 (?) year old Rashard Lewis right now.

By the way, since everyone says that we should have taken Rashard Lewis instead of Drew - I don't think so. I think we should have taken Brian Skinner. Someone mentioned it before. This guy will be a more than decent PF/C very soon. He actually outplays Olowokandi (anyone remember him? their no. 1 pick from last season) often enough. If I'm not wrong, he was taken later than Bryce Drew.

[thacabbage]

one thing that strikes me whenever I read your posts (which are almost always interesting) is that you seem to think that "rebuilding" means that no player you get should be older than 23. I think you even explicitly stated that. I don't think so.

Yea, you are right. I have stated that before, and I still feel the same way. I guess I have a utopian view of having a team of 24 year old's playing together, and learning together, building up as a team together, and then in a year becoming a contender. It's the way I wish things were, but I guess you are right. Things like that never last, with greed and other obstacles getting in the way (see: Marbury situation.). But in defense of my plan, look at teams like Minnesota, Philadelphia, and Milwaukee, three teams who are not yet in the contender class, but teams who I am hoping can stay together long enough to reach the elite. If one of these teams makes it there, then, I will know that this blueprint of youth actually does work. If you look at these three teams, all of their focal players (Allen, Big Dog, Iverson, Ratliff, Hughes, Snow, Garnett, Smith, Sczerbiach) are extremely young. Then, they surround those guys with middle-age veterans who know their roles and know how to play the game. Guys like Brandon, Geiger, Peeler, Cassell, etc.

I think Larry Brown is the master of assembling a roster. All the other coaches before him tried to get Iverson to pass. He, on the other hand, recognized an extraordinary ability to put the ball in the basket, in the kid. What did he do? He surrounded Iverson with young hard-working defenders who would compliment Iverson's scoring style. Rudy T on the other hand, has been able to bring in guys over the years, but it seems as if he has no real plan. All of his moves seem as if they are being made by a fan. That is why you see such a roster clash on this current team.

Anyways, back to the age issue. I want to pattern the team around Philadelphia. You already have Francis = Iverson, Anderson = Snow, and Cato = Ratliff. Then trade Mobley for a young small forward. Then, surround this young core with defenders, seeing that you have enough offense, and fill the rest of the roster out with vets to provide a calming influence.

The way the Rockets are doing it will never work. You just cannot rely on 37 year old vets as much as they do. Other than the Utah Jazz, not a single team in the NBA relies on such old players as much as the Rockets do. The Jazz really have no choice. They don't have Francis, Anderson, Mobley, Cato, Rogers. Barkley and Dream should be role players and nothing more.

(GermanRocket: That post included alot of other stuff rather than just a reply to your post...sorry for the confusion. http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/smile.gif )

I have become resigned to the fact that the Rockets are in a rebuilding stage right now, and I look forward to a high draft pick. It is ok with me. But, it just disgusts me to see so much talent be wasted like Rudy is wasting ours right now.

Talent for talent, the Rockets are in the upper echelon of the league. It is Rudy's job to make use of that talent. Right now, what is happening is 95% of that potential is untapped, and he is relying heavily on 5% (Barkley-Olajuwon). All I ask is that he try something new for once.



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"Museum officials outside of Houston have reported an ancient artifact identified as "Rudy's Postup Plays - 1994" stolen, as of November 2, 1999...officials urge residents to contact...

[napster]

About Larry Hughes, don't you think Philly could get more than what the Rockets can offer?

[CaucasionSensation]

Seriously Napster, I too think Mobley and somebody just aren't enough there to get that deal done. Love to have him though.

Philadelphia is certainly a good team, but they will need more there if they ever want to win a championshhip. That's what they will look for when they trade Hughes.

[thacabbage]

I am expecting the two teams to announce a McGrady - Hughes trade in the next few weeks. Wish we could jump in there and nab one of them, though.

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"Museum officials outside of Houston have reported an ancient artifact identified as "Rudy's Postup Plays - 1994" stolen, as of November 2, 1999...officials urge residents to contact...

[sir scarvajal]

It is painfully obvious we have to get another swing player (SG or SF) with a little offensive and defensive game to start along side SA. So a lot of these suggestions make sense. Any of the GS guys would be an improvement (Mills--this guy has played better than I thought he could, Marshall--he is a great rebounding 3 and has size, Starks--fire and some overall game left) over what we have. Likewise Mitch would be a notch above those guys. At the beginning of the season I was all for any of those deals. I still wouldn't object to these, at least they give Dream and Chuck a bit more of a fighting chance before they are done (maybe help us make it to the playoffs as a low seed). GS is even more desperate for a trade than we are, because there they are already greasing up the gullitine for PJ and others, so we probably could do something with them.

But lately my thinking is more like Cabbage's now, that there is no sense adding just a solid vet because that wouldn't be enough to give us a title run and hurt our future. Granted they would be hard to get, but Hughes, McGrady or Finley would be the way to go. Maybe one of these teams are more searching for respectiblity (like having Dream finish his career there) and we could get McGrady or Finley of these guys plus a big guy (Willis, Bradley). That early offseason deal sure looks sweet now. I would send Chuck too if we could find a taker, maybe something like Rice, Knight and Fisher (use Rice up and then get rid of him, add permanent good back-up 1, add decent back-up 4/5) for Drew and Chuck, I don't know.

[CaucasionSensation]

There's no real purpose in my mind for the Rockets goal at this point to be thinking present, or playoffs or championship. We need to begin restructuring for the future and trading Chuck to a contender like L.A. would not only help them, but us since we won't be in the playoffs so who the heck cares. Let's roll the danged dice again.