[Chron] Justice: Rox like McHale's Leadership

[Hayesfan]

link (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/rockets/7593306.html?)

There's some interesting stuff about the coaching search process in here :)

Looking back on a process that included three interviews lasting more than 20 hours, Daryl Morey remembers one moment that sold him on Kevin McHale.

It occurred as Morey and his staff peppered McHale on approximately two dozen end-of-game situations as part of a discussion that included topics ranging from coaching influences to player development.

OK, Kevin, we're down five points with 50 seconds remaining and have the ball and one timeout?

Or …

We're up three with 90 seconds left and one timeout remaining.

McHale answered confidently and without hesitation.

"We analyze the heck out of those game situations," Morey said, "and Kevin hit the ball out of the park. It made me realize how smart he is and how he knows his stuff. That was the moment for me. Believe me, he's going to know what to do at the end of games."

Before McHale aced that part of the exam, the Rockets believed they had a handle on what kind of coach he would be. They loved his leadership, intelligence and basketball aptitude and were becoming convinced he really and truly was it in for the long haul.

"I'm 100 percent in," McHale told them. "You guys are going to get everything from me."

The Rockets were anxious enough about this part of McHale to have owner Leslie Alexander ask him the same thing. In the end, Morey and his assistants Gersson Rosas and Sam Hinkie believed they had a perfect candidate.

McHale was so perfect that Alexander had them double-check what they had already doubled-checked.

With every telephone call, the Rockets were more impressed, and a guy who barely had been on their radar screen at the beginning of the process was on his way to becoming their new coach.

Along the way, there would be some tough talks. Why did such-and-such player dislike him? What situations did he handle poorly? Is he committed to working the hours required to be a successful NBA coach?

In some ways, Morey probably knew what he was getting. For a couple of years, the Rockets and Timberwolves have co-hosted one of the NBA's largest pre-draft camps.

During those hours in the gym, it's NBA people talking about the game and players and everything else.
The great debate

Morey never forgot the day McHale, then general manager of the Timberwolves, and Tom Thibodeau, a Rockets assistant, now coach of the Bulls, got into a heated argument about how best to defend the low post.

"It was right there in front of everyone at the camp," Morey said, "and it was amazing to listen to. They went through multiple pick-and-rolls and a bunch of other things. I got a sense of him as a person in times like that."

Morey began the search to replace Rick Adelman by going through 10 years of files on assistant coaches. With the help of senior vice president Keith Jones and others, that list was trimmed to 20 candidates and then 10.

Morey met with Alexander several times for input.

"Mr. Alexander mainly wanted a smart guy," Morey said.

The Rockets ended up doing formal interviews with six candidates. All the first interviews lasted close to 10 hours. Kelvin Sampson's went 14.

Morey wrestled with the idea of hiring a former player versus a career coach.

His buddy, Celtics general manager Danny Ainge, feels strongly about having a distinguished former player as the coach and surrounding him with quality assistants to help with strategic preparation.

Ainge apparently believes no single coaching quality is more important than the leadership and credibility some former players bring.

Morey doesn't agree. He has high regard for Jeff Van Gundy and believes two other finalists, Lawrence Frank and Dwane Casey, would have been good hires.

But there was something about McHale. His charisma. His smarts. His desire to be a great coach and to learn.

"(Former Rockets personnel man) Dean Cooper worked with Kevin and believes he takes the best of his staff and the people around him," Morey said. "Kevin has a Midwestern feel about him. He's very upfront with people. He doesn't get offended.“

Morey had been impressed at how much McHale improved between his first and second stints as Timberwolves coach. The Wolves got better shots, had better defensive awareness, you name it.
Case closed

"There was massive improvement," Morey said.

Morey and the others became convinced they had their man. Alexander signed off, and McHale will be Introduced today at Toyota Center.

McHale's hiring is a gamble only in that he has spent so little time coaching. But there's no situation on the floor or locker room he hasn't witnessed, and in some cases, dealt with.

The Rockets have plenty of work to do on their roster, so the hiring of McHale is a step in the right direction with plenty more needed. But it's a significant step, and the Rockets hope, a lasting one.

[AFS]

good article. nice to know there was a lot of thought put into the decision. now we can only wait and see the kind of results we get.

[Doctor Robert]

link (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/rockets/7593306.html?)

There's some interesting stuff about the coaching search process in here :)

I like Morey's attitude on the hire. He believes in roles for coaches. The head coach has a specific job definition, which includes game management, and the assistants have job definitions as well. I'm completely opposed to coaches that want to come into a franchise (Isiah Thomas, Larry Brown) and control every aspect of the team, including game management, game planning, practices, preparation, personnel, hiring, etc. I don't really care if it works in isolated cases. The smartest way to develop longevity in a franchise is to find the best people to do each job. If you have one guy with all the responsibility, then you are going to win or lose based on whether or not they are having a good year and whether or not they decide to stay with the team.

Virtually every industry has these types of job descriptions, and it is for a reason.

Besides, I agree with Danny Ainge. I think Adelman was a fantastic coach, and I think McHale, while very different, is going to be successful here.

[knote32]

As usual, In Morey I trust...

[Doctor Robert]

Merge threads!

[coachbadlee]

Interesting. A heated argument with a defensive specialist. I like that.

[Raven]

But there was something about McHale. His charisma. His smarts. His desire to be a great coach and to learn.

I'm reluctant to say this, because there is already way too much Morey bashing, but it appears the front office wanted more validation, a veteran coach who wouldn't resist being molded.

[coachbadlee]

Can't wait to see McHale wrap his mind around the draft.

[CXbby]

I'm reluctant to say this, because there is already way too much Morey bashing, but it appears the front office wanted more validation, a veteran coach who wouldn't resist being molded.

That would only incite more Morey bashing from those who think "veteran coaches" already know everything about everything, and can't possibly have anything more to learn. A silly thought, that many seem to possess.

[Carl Herrera]

Can't wait to see McHale wrap his mind around the draft.

Is there a prospect out there named Kevin? Kevin McHale has done very well drafting Kevins, with Garnett and Love both very nice picks.

He has done much less well drafting players not named Kevin.

[heypartner]

So much for the myth that Morey and Les knew all along who they wanted. ;) I think we could go so far to say no one on the bbs knew how it was playing out.

Good lord, how do you do a 14 hour interview. It better include a 2 hour lunch at Reef where we can get some fish that won't offend Les, and then 3 hours at Vic & Anthony's with the big boys doing the classic Texan dinner -- no vegans allowed.

[BrownBeast99]

The hire is slowing growing on me after initially objecting to it. I'll stick my Morey on this one and believe it is a god hire. Now it's time to go out and get impact players (specifically stars) because a coach can only do so much with the current roster assembled.

[CXbby]

Good lord, how do you do a 14 hour interview.

Thoroughly.

[cheke64]

Morey should just say Adelman is a dumbass. Adelman last minute plays were atrocious. A ****ing disaster, anybody looks like a genius compared to Rick.

[BleedRocketsRed]

Wow Sampson had a 14 hour interview and didn't even end up being one of the top 3 candidates for the job. Crazy. That has to SUCK.

[BleedRocketsRed]

Morey should just say Adelman is a dumbass. Adelman last minute plays were atrocious. A ****ing disaster, anybody looks like a genius compared to Rick.

Yeah he made SOME questionable decisions but overall, every one of his Rocket teams overachieved and he did end up with the highest winning percentage as a Rockets coach so clearly he was doing something right.

[coachbadlee]

Is there a prospect out there named Kevin? Kevin McHale has done very well drafting Kevins, with Garnett and Love both very nice picks.

He has done much less well drafting players not named Kevin.

Well there is one named Kanter. Close enough.;)

[cheke64]

Yeah he made SOME questionable decisions but overall, every one of his Rocket teams overachieved and he did end up with the highest winning percentage as a Rockets coach so clearly he was doing something right.

I agree with you, his first couple of years he did excellent job but then he got cocky and JVG defense wore off.

[Aleron]

So much for the myth that Morey and Les knew all along who they wanted. ;) I think we could go so far to say no one on the bbs knew how it was playing out.


I've been saying for a while that Morey wanted a coach for in game situations and specific player talks during practice and wanted to choose the assistants himself with set roles related to structure (offense, defense etc) which is pretty much exactly what he did :P

[Aleron]

It actually reminded me a lot of how another team in the NBA is run now, from the east coast that wears rreen and Morey worked for 3 or 4 years for...

[meh]

I find it hilarious that Morey talks about how McHale "improved" with his 2nd coaching stint. I'm pretty sure all haters of the hire point to his 2nd coaching stint as proof positive that McHale is incompetent.

[heypartner]

I've been saying for a while that Morey wanted a coach for in game situations and specific player talks during practice and wanted to choose the assistants himself with set roles related to structure (offense, defense etc) which is pretty much exactly what he did :P

You're kidding, right?

So you thought it was either Brown or McHale all along -- who else qualifies for your so-called prediction -- certainly not Casey or Frank, who are the "structure" guys. It actually reads a lot like Morey didn't really have a feel for which way to go until "McHale knocked it out of the park."

So, you reinvent history much. I'm sure we can finds quotes of yours saying Morey already knows who he wants.

[Aleron]

You're kidding, right?

So you thought it was either Brown or McHale all along -- who else qualifies for your so-called prediction -- certainly not Casey or Frank, who are the "structure" guys. It actually reads a lot like Morey didn't really have a feel for which way to go until "McHale knocked it out of the park."

So, you reinvent history much. I'm sure we can finds quotes of yours saying Morey already knows who he wants.

he wanted them for specific jobs, how would he know how good Casey or Frank were at what we wanted without talking to them? Because someone is good at structures (as an assistant, especially at certain teams, Dallas and Boston come to mind as the most prevalent...ironically enough, that's your role), does that somehow prevent them being good at what Morey wanted?

[Aleron]

And I had nfi Mchale was good at that stuff, I just assumed he was doing a GM selected coaching lineup ala Dallas and Boston (Adelman even hinted that's where the issue was at)

[Aleron]

So, you reinvent history much. I'm sure we can finds quotes of yours saying Morey already knows who he wants.

Good luck with that btw

[HillBoy]

Looks like the Rockets propaganda machine is now fully operational. More sunshine and roses getting blown up our collective behinds from Dick Justice. By God, you'd think that George S Patton has been reincarnated in the person of one Kevin McHale. Now all they need to do now is have today's dog and pony show er press conference take place in front of a gigantic Rockets emblem and the snow job will be complete. DM has found the perfect guy to lead his team back into the NBA lotto. Whoo-Hoo!

[ShiniKashi]

Looks like the Rockets propaganda machine is now fully operational. More sunshine and roses getting blown up our collective behinds from Dick Justice. By God, you'd think that George S Patton has been reincarnated in the person of one Kevin McHale. Now all they need to do now is have today's dog and pony show er press conference take place in front of a gigantic Rockets emblem and the snow job will be complete. DM has found the perfect guy to lead his team back into the NBA lotto. Whoo-Hoo!

Why don't you let the man play.

http://www.soccerpro.com/common/images/5422_let_em_play_coaching_dvd.jpg

[Aleron]

The coaching stafff is just one piece of the puzzle, our roster is still craptastic *shrug*

[jmwilliamson]

no vegans allowed.

But I wanna go. :(

[meh]

Looks like the Rockets propaganda machine is now fully operational. More sunshine and roses getting blown up our collective behinds from Dick Justice. By God, you'd think that George S Patton has been reincarnated in the person of one Kevin McHale. Now all they need to do now is have today's dog and pony show er press conference take place in front of a gigantic Rockets emblem and the snow job will be complete. DM has found the perfect guy to lead his team back into the NBA lotto. Whoo-Hoo!

I can see Morey and Les laughing their asses off right now.

Les: So Daryl, why did you choose McHale?

Morey: Because he sucks. But he's also a nice guy, so we can make it look like he's actually good.

Les: Why not just hire a good coach?

Morey: Why hire a good coach, when you can hire a bad one, but leak to the press that he's actually good? Frank was obviously too competent, and Casey looked like he might get us to win. And we can't have any winning or players playing well.

Les: But then our team would suck, and fans would stop watching games.

Morey: But you're losing sight of the true goal of an NBA team. What does that matter when we can hoodwink the fans? Isn't that the entire point of owning an NBA basketball team? To try to suck but at the same time tell your fans that you aren't?

Les: Indeed. It's not about winning or making money. The whole reason why I bought this team is so we can bring in crappy players and coaches, then pretend they're good.

[CXbby]

Looks like the Rockets propaganda machine is now fully operational. More sunshine and roses getting blown up our collective behinds from Dick Justice. By God, you'd think that George S Patton has been reincarnated in the person of one Kevin McHale. Now all they need to do now is have today's dog and pony show er press conference take place in front of a gigantic Rockets emblem and the snow job will be complete. DM has found the perfect guy to lead his team back into the NBA lotto. Whoo-Hoo!

When all a guy does is praise Kevin McHale, the new Rockets head coach, he is called a Les hired spammer. When all a guy does is crap all over the organization, what is he called? A Rockets Faithful. Some sad lot you old timers have turned into. Some of whom I used to enjoy reading. Now the schtick is just getting old.

The real sad part is, when we end up winning more games next year than this year, all will be forgotten. The Rockets Faithful was there the whole time, always the faithful. Nevermind this little episode.

And while we're at it, nevermind the last little episode when we traded the starting PG on a 50 win team for some backup scrub to tank the season. Of course that wasn't how the Rockets propaganda machine explained it. They actually said we got better. HA! But we knew better, because we are the Rockets Faithful.

Oh and that other little episode, when we traded Ariza for Lee, just to save money, nevermind that too. Oh, and when we overpaid for Lowry, remember that one? Of course we don't. We Rockets Faithful don't pride ourselves on our memory much.

And how about the last 3 coaches that we fired only to bring on someone who was better, and fit the team better. Oh, but this time it will be different. The Rockets Faithful just know it! I mean we were so right those other times. Well, nevermind that. Nevermind all those little episodes.

Well, that is, until the next episode when the Rockets make another controversial move. Then all bets are off again, when the Rockets Faithful are once again the self-righteous geniuses, and the front office a propaganda machine. Whoo-Hoo!

[DaDakota]

Sounds like they are rolling the dice and looking for the next Rudy T.

DD

[Aruba77]

can't believe i'm saying this about a Dick Justice piece, but ...that was a good little read. Makes me feel slightly better.

[heypartner]

he wanted them for specific jobs, how would he know how good Casey or Frank were at what we wanted without talking to them? Because someone is good at structures (as an assistant, especially at certain teams, Dallas and Boston come to mind as the most prevalent...ironically enough, that's your role), does that somehow prevent them being good at what Morey wanted?

He interviewed Casey and Frank to be the head coach, as "structure" guys X/Os. They don't have the pedigree of McHale to be the other type of coach who more manages. So, if you think he wanted McHale all along, this article doesn't agree. It reads like Morey wasn't ready to make a decision until McHale knocked it out of the park...that everyone was a legit candidate, at least through their first interviews.

Yeah, I agree, either type of coach would need to agree to FO helping select the assistants. I just don't see how you read that article and say it shows that Morey wanted or didn't want anyone out of his 10 candidates that he and staff/Jones selected.

[heypartner]

And I had nfi Mchale was good at that stuff, I just assumed he was doing a GM selected coaching lineup ala Dallas and Boston (Adelman even hinted that's where the issue was at)

OK, that's fair, if all you said was Morey wanted to select the coaching staff with the Head Coach. I think 99% of the board thought that, too.

But Dallas is not like Boston wrt to Head Coach. In this thread you said Morey wanted a player mgmt guy with the Xs/Os guys behind the scenes, different than say a JVG or Adelman who are not delegators like we think of Rivers, Brown and McHale. I wouldn't compare Carlisle to Rivers, either. Carlisle is as hands on wrt Xs and Os as it comes.

[HMMMHMM]

It's a nice story and I'm happy with the McHale, but the "All the first interviews lasted close to 10 hours." thing seems a little exaggerated.

"I was very excited," Elie said in an interview with FOX 26 Sports. "I spent three hours with the guys.

"I thought it went extremely well," Woodson said in an interview with FOX 26 Sports. "It was a good meeting. We started at 10:00 and it just got done (5 p.m.)."

"It was pretty lengthy," Lucas said. "It went probably a good 2 1/2 hours."

[AggNRox]

Thoroughly.

including physical exam to make sure he can stand for season long brutal schedule and metal detect screening to guarantee he can catch rox charter flight w/o being stopped by TSA.

[MadMax]

Looking back on a process that included three interviews lasting more than 20 hours, Daryl Morey remembers one moment that sold him on Kevin McHale.

It occurred as Morey and his staff peppered McHale on approximately two dozen end-of-game situations as part of a discussion that included topics ranging from coaching influences to player development.

OK, Kevin, we're down five points with 50 seconds remaining and have the ball and one timeout?

Or …

We're up three with 90 seconds left and one timeout remaining.

McHale answered confidently and without hesitation.

"We analyze the heck out of those game situations," Morey said, "and Kevin hit the ball out of the park. It made me realize how smart he is and how he knows his stuff. That was the moment for me. Believe me, he's going to know what to do at the end of games."

If this is the how the Rockets organization is really making this decision, then I don't have much confidence...sorry. Playing "fantasy basketball" with hypotheticals? All this does is let the most articulate guy win. If you're hiring a trial lawyer, that's great.

By the way...who was in on these interviews? Was it Morey and Les? Was there anyone in there who has ANY sort of experience that would qualify them as expert enough to judge whether McHale truly "hit it out of the park" in specific coaching situations?? Any former coaches in that conversation at all?

And how can you "hit it out of the park" with fantasy hypotheticals? All that's being judged is how quickly you respond and how impressive you are in style of response.

Honestly, this is silly.

[durvasa]

I can't remember the last time Richard Justice had anything but praise and support for the Rockets management. This just feels like more PR, so right now I'm just in wait and see mode.

[AggNRox]

Sounds like they are rolling the dice and looking for the next Rudy T.

DD

it's human being's nature. don't fans here hope for a next dream?

[durvasa]

If this is the how the Rockets organization is really making this decision, then I don't have much confidence...sorry. Playing "fantasy basketball" with hypotheticals? All this does is let the most articulate guy win. If you're hiring a trial lawyer, that's great.

By the way...who was in on these interviews? Was it Morey and Les? Was there anyone in there who has ANY sort of experience that would qualify them as expert enough to judge whether McHale truly "hit it out of the park" in specific coaching situations?? Any former coaches in that conversation at all?

And how can you "hit it out of the park" with fantasy hypotheticals? All that's being judged is how quickly you respond and how impressive you are in style of response.

Honestly, this is silly.

First of all, you really think that a 10 hour interview consisted of nothing but going over hypothetical coaching situations?

If the account is as Justice put it, that's perfectly fine. Lack of experience as a coach leads to questions about his understanding of how to manage a game and what sort of plays to call in various situations. It makes sense to go over particular scenarios, and ask him how he'd handle it. If that bothers you, you're being silly.

[MadMax]

First of all, you really think that a 10 hour interview consisted of nothing but going over hypothetical coaching situations?

If the account is as Justice put it, that's perfectly fine. Lack of experience as a coach leads to questions about his understanding of how to manage a game and what sort of plays to call in various situations. It makes sense to go over particular scenarios, and ask him how he'd handle it. If that bothers you, you're being silly.

No, I don't think that's all they did...I didn't say that. I'm pointing to Morey's comments where he felt like that was the most critical part of the interview...that's where he was "sold" on Kevin McHale.

It doesn't necessarily bother me they went through this exercise (though honestly I don't see the value if there isn't someone on the Rockets side of the table who can truly analyze the quality of the answer from experience)...it bothers me that it was deemed to be so critical in the determination of who they hired.

[LongTimeFan]

If this is the how the Rockets organization is really making this decision, then I don't have much confidence...sorry.

There is probably nothing that could be said that would make you or TheFreak happy with this hire. Your animosity over the Adelman firing/hatred toward Les will make you second-guess just about anything that comes out about McHale or the Rockets.

It's mostly those that have been around for a while who are most up in arms about the new coach (you can throw Deckard in there as well). I agree with CXbby -- sad to see you old timers become so irrational in wake of these recent events. I wasn't happy about the Adelman firing either, but it doesn't mean I have to lose my sense of rational thought.

[AggNRox]

i am in wait and see mode.

right now, we don't know anything about his offense and defense styles. according to his interview with espn and nba.tv, he likes ra's offense and he will have rox defense on the top of his list as he said nba playoff shows defense wins. as long as he focuses on defense, i am fine with him.

[MadMax]

There is probably nothing that could be said that would make you or TheFreak happy with this hire. Your animosity over the Adelman firing/hatred toward Les will make you second-guess just about anything that comes out about McHale or the Rockets.

It's mostly those that have been around for a while who are most up in arms about the new coach (you can throw Deckard in there as well). I agree with CXbby -- sad to see you old timers become so irrational in wake of these recent events. I wasn't happy about the Adelman firing either, but it doesn't mean I have to lose my sense of rational thought.

You got the wrong cat...sorry. I said I was neither excited nor disappointed with the McHale hire, generally. I don't think it matters, frankly. And the uncertainty of the NBA labor situation makes it all seem so shaky, anyway.

I don't think there's anything irrational in what I said in my post. You may not agree with it, but it's not irrational.

[durvasa]

It doesn't necessarily bother me they went through this exercise...it bothers me that it was deemed to be so critical in the determination of who they hired.

If you were interviewing McHale, what would you consider to be more critical than his understanding of how to manage a game and draw up plays? Isn't that the biggest question mark people have with him?

His other positive qualities -- communication, leadership, player development -- are well known. So, what else is there that should take priority over coaching during the game?

Also, being articulate and a quick thinker is kind of an important quality for a head coach. Its not like that is a superficial attribute. He's interviewing to be a coach, not some position where he doesn't have to communicate with others in critical situations.

[heypartner]

If this is the how the Rockets organization is really making this decision, then I don't have much confidence...sorry. Playing "fantasy basketball" with hypotheticals? All this does is let the most articulate guy win. If you're hiring a trial lawyer, that's great.
Being articulate in a game is probably overrated. Can you imagine JVG as a trial lawyer? Instead of an objections, he'd say "Ah, come ON judge...Big Chief Johnny Cochran doesn't know what he's talking about. Try reading Statson v Exxon, 6 N.Y. 397 (N.Y. 1952) followed by confirmation in Ratcliff v State of California CA 473 (CA 1986)." He'd probably win over the jury, though, when he got jailed for contempt. So, maybe his Xs and Os of law would work.

By the way...who was in on these interviews? Was it Morey and Les? Was there anyone in there who has ANY sort of experience that would qualify them as expert enough to judge whether McHale truly "hit it out of the park" in specific coaching situations?? Any former coaches in that conversation at all?

I suppose you are saying Morey's statitical analysis of what works at the ends of games is not good enough.

[LongTimeFan]

You got the wrong cat...sorry. I said I was neither excited nor disappointed with the McHale hire, generally. I don't think it matters, frankly. And the uncertainty of the NBA labor situation makes it all seem so shaky, anyway.

I don't think there's anything irrational in what I said in my post. You may not agree with it, but it's not irrational.

I've got the right guy, but I don't expect you to realize what you're doing. Complaining about end-of-game hypothetical is irrational, especially when several hours of other questions/qualifications went into the multiple interviews.

[MadMax]

If you were interviewing McHale, what would you consider to be more critical than his understanding of how to manage a game and draw up plays? Isn't that the biggest question mark people have with him?

I have tape to look at for that. Not safe answers over fantasy hypotheticals in a conference room. Again, I don't necessarily have a problem with them doing that...I have a problem with Morey going, "yeah, his answers to those questions are what sold me!!"



Also, being articulate and a quick thinker is kind of an important quality for a head coach. Its not like that is a superficial attribute. He's interviewing to be a coach, not some position where he doesn't have to communicate with others in critical situations.

I'm great with that. I don't disagree. You have experience to look at there. What do others say about him in those roles? How did he perform?

I'm not arguing with the end result necessarily....I don't support or dislike the decision frankly. I'm stuck with it either way. Honestly, I don't think he has enough talent on this roster to make much of a difference with, anyway. But the process of decision making is important not just for this decision but for others as well. If answers to fantasy hypotheticals are what "sells" our GM on a new coach, then I'm not real confident.

[MadMax]

I've got the right guy, but I don't expect you to realize what you're doing. Complaining about end-of-game hypothetical is irrational, especially when several hours of other questions/qualifications went into the multiple interviews.

Thanks for the personal jab.

I'm not complaining about them doing it...I'm saying answers to fantasy hypos should NOT be the selling point in an interview for a head coach in the NBA. Particularly when there's no one with any real coaching experience in the room to evaluate the quality of the comments beyond how articulate they are.

[Aleron]

He interviewed Casey and Frank to be the head coach, as "structure" guys X/Os. They don't have the pedigree of McHale to be the other type of coach who more manages. So, if you think he wanted McHale all along, this article doesn't agree. It reads like Morey wasn't ready to make a decision until McHale knocked it out of the park...that everyone was a legit candidate, at least through their first interviews.

Yeah, I agree, either type of coach would need to agree to FO helping select the assistants. I just don't see how you read that article and say it shows that Morey wanted or didn't want anyone out of his 10 candidates that he and staff/Jones selected.


You might want to consider reading what I said, not what you think I said. I didn't use the term manage, and I never implied it. I'm saying Morey wanted a cpl qualities that he could only find out by talking to them, their ability to impact plays in crunch time to maximise winning, when to call timeouts to kill opposing momentum, etc

Ie, Mchale was picked basically because he had the best game sense essentially. (hence the questions about "what to do when x happens at y time")

and their willingness to allow the FO to pick the assistants to manage general play structures (ie are you ok, with me picking x assistant to have the team run y offense for the 45 mins of the game the other teams d isn't scrambling, and a assistant to develop b defensive structure for the same period), because yes we all know, the last few minutes of the game, the intensity ramps up and general structure plays collapse.

[LongTimeFan]

Thanks for the personal jab.

I'm not complaining about them doing it...I'm saying answers to fantasy hypos should NOT be the selling point in an interview for a head coach in the NBA. Particularly when there's no one with any real coaching experience in the room to evaluate the quality of the comments beyond how articulate they are.

:confused:

Where did I get personal? I think you, and a handful of other veteran posters, got wrapped up in the emotion of Adelman being let go and that has caused many of you to criticize the front office/next coach, even when not warranted.

For all you know, the question Justice could have asked was: "At what moment in the interview did you think McHale was the right guy?"

Morey would then have to pick out a particular part of the interview where McHale impressed him. It doesn't mean he decided on McHale because of his lone answer to being down 5 with 50 seconds left. The fact that McHale doesn't have a lot of experience as a head coach means the front office would need to lean more toward his interview on situations vs. watching game film. I don't see a problem with that whatsoever.

Maybe we should have brought in a former coach to help lead the search. Dan Reeves did wonders for the Texans coaching search! Oh wait.

[Russjr2]

Thanks for the personal jab.

I'm not complaining about them doing it...I'm saying answers to fantasy hypos should NOT be the selling point in an interview for a head coach in the NBA. Particularly when there's no one with any real coaching experience in the room to evaluate the quality of the comments beyond how articulate they are.

MadMax I don't think he was saying just that one part sold him. I think he was saying along with all the other qualities about McHale and then 'that' part sold him. That's just what I got from the article.

I also think you have to look at who his assistants will be. That is going to be a big part of the 'coaching staff'. If we can get the guy from Memphis to go along with Finch I think we will be on our way. Just have to get the right talent for them to work with.

[MadMax]

:confused:

Where did I get personal? I think you, and a handful of other veteran posters, got wrapped up in the emotion of Adelman being let go and that has caused many of you to criticize the front office/next coach, even when not warranted.

For all you know, the question Justice could have asked was: "At what moment in the interview did you think McHale was the right guy?"

Morey would then have to pick out a particular part of the interview where McHale impressed him. It doesn't mean he decided on McHale because of his lone answer to being down 5 with 50 seconds left. The fact that McHale doesn't have a lot of experience as a head coach means the front office would need to lean more toward his interview on situations vs. watching game film. I don't see a problem with that whatsoever.

Maybe we should have brought in a former coach to help lead the search. Dan Reeves did wonders for the Texans coaching search! Oh wait.

come on..."you're doing it, but you don't even know you're doing it?" thanks, Gandalf.

Here's where I know you have me wrong....did I think it was wrong to fire Rick....ehhh...I think it doesn't matter. I think their roster is mediocre at best. Do I think Rick Adelman was a better coach than any of the candidates? Absolutely. I don't think that's even debateable, frankly. Having said that, I don't care enough to be irrational about it, because no one is winning with this roster.

I'm reading Morey's direct quote. If he didn't say it, then I retract all of this. All I'm reading is the quote, itself....his words in print.

Again...I'm not saying it's necessarily vital to have a coach in the discussion...UNLESS you're going to suggest that the point that seals the deal for any candidate is the point where someone is postulating on what they'd do in a specific game situation using fantasy hypotheticals. That's all I'm saying. Having Darryl Morey say that what sealed the deal for Kevin McHale was his answers to fantasy coaching hypos as judged by people who have zero experience coaching basketball at any level is not a real confidence booster for me in terms of organizational decision making.

[MadMax]

MadMax I don't think he was saying just that one part sold him. I think he was saying along with all the other qualities about McHale and then 'that' part sold him. That's just what I got from the article.

I also think you have to look at who his assistants will be. That is going to be a big part of the 'coaching staff'. If we can get the guy from Memphis to go along with Finch I think we will be on our way. Just have to get the right talent for them to work with.

I suppose you can read it however you want...and we can temper it however we want. And I really and truly hope you're right...but here's what I'm reading:

"We analyze the heck out of those game situations," Morey said, "and Kevin hit the ball out of the park. It made me realize how smart he is and how he knows his stuff. That was the moment for me. Believe me, he's going to know what to do at the end of games."



"we analyze the heck out of those game situations" -- who the flip is "we?" do any of those "we" people have any experience in actual coaching? in making decisions like that on the fly in the midst of a game with the whole world watching?

[durvasa]

I'm great with that. I don't disagree. You have experience to look at there. What do others say about him in those roles? How did he perform?

I'm not arguing with the end result necessarily....I don't support or dislike the decision frankly. I'm stuck with it either way. Honestly, I don't think he has enough talent on this roster to make much of a difference with, anyway. But the process of decision making is important not just for this decision but for others as well. If answers to fantasy hypotheticals are what "sells" our GM on a new coach, then I'm not real confident.

Basically, my position on the hire is the same as yours. Ambivalent, wait-and-see how the rest of the roster comes together, and then I'll judge the results next season.

Regarding the process (again, if its as Justice portrayed it), it doesn't bother me. You call it "fantasy hypotheticals". But these are real situations that he'll very likely have to deal with, and they make the difference between winning and losing games. That's not fantasy to me. It seems you're trying to draw a connection between what they went over in the interview and fantasy basketball. There is no relation.

I believe the Rockets did their due diligence as far as checking with former players/co-workers and getting their assessment of how he handled the job. Heading into the interview, the Rockets knew that stuff and (presumably, but who really knows) people had a lot of good things to say about him. But if all that was needed was background checks to make a decision, why even bother with the interview?

I'd be glad if the Rockets aren't satisfied simply by what former players, teammates, co-workers had to say about him or what their analysis of his coaching performance showed. That's important, but a more thorough assessment requires one-to-one discussion of what he'd do with the Rockets and getting into specifics. To me, I would take it as a positive that even with that information they would be skeptical and they'd want to hear from him directly how he'd handle critical basketball scenarios as the coach. IMO, McHale's ability to manage a game is the biggest question mark with him, so I don't have a problem with that being the key part of the interview for the Rockets.

[meh]

come on..."you're doing it, but you don't even know you're doing it?" thanks, Gandalf.

Here's where I know you have me wrong....did I think it was wrong to fire Rick....ehhh...I think it doesn't matter. I think their roster is mediocre at best. Do I think Rick Adelman was a better coach than any of the candidates? Absolutely. I don't think that's even debateable, frankly. Having said that, I don't care enough to be irrational about it, because no one is winning with this roster.

Out of curiosity. Do you believe that coaches are one-size-fits-all type of personnel? Or that some are better suited for certain rosters than others?

If you think that Adelman > any potential coach with ANY given roster and ANY given direction of the team, then I'm afraid I have to disagree.

If you think that coaches, like players, perform differently under different circumstances, then your statement would simply be incorrect. Because the Rockets roster is in a state of flux, and therefore it's impossible for fans to predict how Adelman compares to any other coach when the new rebuilt Rockets take shape. The Rockets organization, OTOH, do have some idea because they're the one building the team.



I'm reading Morey's direct quote. If he didn't say it, then I retract all of this. All I'm reading is the quote, itself....his words in print.

Again...I'm not saying it's necessarily vital to have a coach in the discussion...UNLESS you're going to suggest that the point that seals the deal for any candidate is the point where someone is postulating on what they'd do in a specific game situation using fantasy hypotheticals. That's all I'm saying. Having Darryl Morey say that what sealed the deal for Kevin McHale was his answers to fantasy coaching hypos as judged by people who have zero experience coaching basketball at any level is not a real confidence booster for me in terms of organizational decision making.

So you're saying Morey, in all his 4 years as the Rockets GM, has never consulted ANY coach in regards to how one should handle late game situations? And that Morey's "answer" to his own hypothetical question comes about only from the results of non-coaches?

If Morey truly came up with the answers that way. Then I wholeheartedly agree with you. Actually, if he came up with the answers that way, I want Morey to be fired this second.

But I think if you don't have any proof to back that up, "common sense" should dictate that your statement is simply false. That Morey's own answer came as a result of compliation of coaches, players, scouts, and his stat researchers(in this case using statistical probability models). And if McHale can "intuitively" understand what to do without such tools under his disposal, then he would have an incredibly BBIQ.

[MadMax]

Out of curiosity. Do you believe that coaches are one-size-fits-all type of personnel? Or that some are better suited for certain rosters than others?

No, I don't believe that.

Yes, I do believe that some are better suited for current rosters.

I don't see any coach putting this roster over the top...or having it perform better than Rick did.

If you think that Adelman > any potential coach with ANY given roster and ANY given direction of the team, then I'm afraid I have to disagree.

then we won't have to agree to disagree, because i didn't say that.

If you think that coaches, like players, perform differently under different circumstances, then your statement would simply be incorrect. Because the Rockets roster is in a state of flux, and therefore it's impossible for fans to predict how Adelman compares to any other coach when the new rebuilt Rockets take shape. The Rockets organization, OTOH, do have some idea because they're the one building the team.

I'm basing it on the current roster. I don't know how much different this roster will be next season. I know they've tried to move players but have been unsuccesful in attracting the type of player they covet.



So you're saying Morey, in all his 4 years as the Rockets GM, has never consulted ANY coach in regards to how one should handle late game situations? And that Morey's "answer" to his own hypothetical question comes about only from the results of non-coaches?

I'm saying Morey's opinions on dealing with game situations with zero coaching experience do not qualify him as an expert in the field, imo. So him using ascribing ultimate value to those answers is of very little value to me...and I think it means he was impressed with HOW McHale answered the questions more than the actual substance. I'll say further, I don't think the answers to hypotheticals while sitting in a conference room provides a ton of substance, to begin with.

His consultation with other coaches in the past is of no concern to me in qualifying him as an expert to judge the quality of the answers given by McHale. Hell, that would make any NBA reporter of 10 plus years experience (for example) an expert.

If Morey truly came up with the answers that way. Then I wholeheartedly agree with you. Actually, if he came up with the answers that way, I want Morey to be fired this second.

But I think if you don't have any proof to back that up, "common sense" should dictate that your statement is simply false. That Morey's own answer came as a result of compliation of coaches, players, scouts, and his stat researchers(in this case using statistical probability models). And if McHale can "intuitively" understand what to do without such tools under his disposal, then he would have an incredibly BBIQ.

I didn't read that there were any coaches in the room. I don't know what coaches would be included. Who is still on the staff? Would Adelman's staff have been in these interviews?

[heypartner]

oops did a double post somehow on an edit. sigh

[Mr. Clutch]

It is kind of surprising that those questions "sealed the deal."

After all, isn't it a given that coaches should know what to do at the end of games? Are there coaches who DON'T know what to do?

[Mr. Clutch]

How many games do "leadership" and "charisma" win you?

[heypartner]

Ie, Mchale was picked basically because he had the best game sense essentially. (hence the questions about "what to do when x happens at y time")
Don't agree. Read durvasa's take. (see quote below)

He was a candidate for all the other things that differentiated him. Morey could have been concerned that McHale would be a Brown at the end of the game and get dear in the headlights. That could have been his final concern, along with the known of not being a strong teacher systems of Xs and Os at practice vs the other candidates.

Think of the end game questions as a show-stopper test for McHale vs the proven X and O guys. Like McHale had to knock that out of the park to get the job. As MadMax says, if that his your make or break criteria for each candidate, that's a little bit extreme where the articulate interviewee who can BS on the fly win the job vs the technically superior ones.

Durvasa's solid point:

If you were interviewing McHale, what would you consider to be more critical than his understanding of how to manage a game and draw up plays? Isn't that the biggest question mark people have with him?

His other positive qualities -- communication, leadership, player development -- are well known. So, what else is there that should take priority over coaching during the game?

[durvasa]

MadMax, there are a lot of qualities a good coach must have. Some of it, you either have it or you don't. Ability to manage personalities, command respect, inspire. That's important, obviously. Knowing how to teach your system and get players to buy in. When and how to discipline players. All of that is a big part of coaching, and its what oftren separates the great coaches from those who simply really know their stuff from an Xs and Os standpoint.

Then there's another facet, accessible to the analyst who may not have ever coached. Timeout management. Shot clock management. How to attack a certain type of defense to get a high percentage shot. When to double team and when not to. Etc. These are things you can get a great deal of insight into with analysis and (yes) with "stats" (dirty word, I know). That's also an important part of coaching, and its where I believe the Rockets front office are well-equipped to evaluate candidates. We'll see how it goes.

[Carl Herrera]

It is kind of surprising that those questions "sealed the deal."

After all, isn't it a given that coaches should know what to do at the end of games? Are there coaches who DON'T know what to do?

Yes. Or rather that they know what they want to do, but not necessarily the right thing to do or the right way to decide what to do.

[MadMax]

MadMax, there are a lot of qualities a good coach must have. Some of it, you either have it or you don't. Ability to manage personalities, command respect, inspire. That's important, obviously. Knowing how to teach your system and get players to buy in. When and how to discipline players. All of that is a big part of coaching, and its what oftren separates the great coaches from those who simply really know their stuff from an Xs and Os standpoint.

Then there's another facet, accessible to the analyst who may not have ever coached. Timeout management. Shot clock management. How to attack a certain type of defense to get a high percentage shot. When to double team and when not to. Etc. These are things you can get a great deal of insight into with analysis and (yes) with "stats" (dirty word, I know). That's also an important part of coaching, and its where I believe the Rockets front office are well-equipped to evaluate candidates. We'll see how it goes.

I don't disagree with anything you just said.

[meh]

No, I don't believe that.

Yes, I do believe that some are better suited for current rosters.

I don't see any coach putting this roster over the top...or having it perform better than Rick did.



then we won't have to agree to disagree, because i didn't say that.



I'm basing it on the current roster. I don't know how much different this roster will be next season. I know they've tried to move players but have been unsuccesful in attracting the type of player they covet.

And with this, you can safely assume that any coach would perform worse than Adelman next year? You like your assumptions, I give you that.

I'm saying Morey's opinions on dealing with game situations with zero coaching experience do not qualify him as an expert in the field, imo. So him using ascribing ultimate value to those answers is of very little value to me...and I think it means he was impressed with HOW McHale answered the questions more than the actual substance. I'll say further, I don't think the answers to hypotheticals while sitting in a conference room provides a ton of substance, to begin with.

You seem to believe hypothetical questions aren't useful. Then do you also believe that all math questions asked in school are worthless? I mean, at which point in real life do you have to figure out exactly, say, 10 time 13 divided by 4 plus 8? Math teaches give such questions. Should kids stop using such random numbers and only use real-world examples?

And I'd like to add, being down by 5 with 50 seconds to go happens a lot more often in real life than any math question I've answered at any grade level + college.

His consultation with other coaches in the past is of no concern to me in qualifying him as an expert to judge the quality of the answers given by McHale. Hell, that would make any NBA reporter of 10 plus years experience (for example) an expert.

I didn't read that there were any coaches in the room. I don't know what coaches would be included. Who is still on the staff? Would Adelman's staff have been in these interviews?

I think the problem is that you and I obviously have very different life experiences. For example, when I think of a GM wanting to know the answer to something, "coaching of end-game situations". I think of a GM asking a variety of experts for their opinions. And then test them himself, and/or see their results through film study. Said GM would then compile the results of these studies and see how things generally work. Said GM would also use percentages to map out how situations may work in a simulation, and see their correspondence with real-life results. etc. etc. etc.

I don't immediately think, "Did the GM just give an interview to an assistant coach to answer his question?"

[Will Samples]

Does Ricky Rubio get to come with McHale to Houston...

and in addition, are we going to start referring to hiim as k-mac?

Does anyone know what his knicknames were in his playing days (before my time.)

[Aleron]

Think of the end game questions as a show-stopper test for McHale vs the proven X and O guys. Like McHale had to knock that out of the park to get the job. As MadMax says, if that his your make or break criteria for each candidate, that's a little bit extreme where the articulate interviewee who can BS on the fly win the job vs the technically superior ones.

The funny thing with stats, is you can use them to create perfect hindsight for some semi random occurrences, then consult with coaches etc to get an understand of why certain things work better, no, the articulate interviewee could not bs his way through such rigorous questions.

[MadMax]

I think the problem is that you and I obviously have very different life experiences.

let's just chalk it all up to this, because i'm tired of the question/answer format of this discussion at this point.

[Aleron]

Does anyone know what his knicknames were in his playing days (before my time.)

I don't think he had one

[Aleron]

He's a statistician, he'd use statistics to figure out what, and then consult a bunch of ppl etc to figure out the more important why.

[heypartner]

no, the articulate interviewee could not bs his way through such rigorous questions.

Alright, BS is not the right term. But please don't dispute that an articulate interviewee has an advantage in such situations to someone who is a technical genius but has trouble summing up all the nuances into well-defined absolutes ... and ends us saying, "you can't isolate a game into simplistic hypotheticals of 2 or 3 variables and expect me to not be thinking through the 10 other variables. My staff will have 10+ answers to every situation and we'll decide during the game." Basically, dodging the question. I would.

Morey's Questions Could be Viewed as Traps
I hate simple hypotheticals and think they are largely traps. I have trouble gauging what the interviewee wants as an answer, so I tend to answer by saying how I think and how I prepare myself without really giving a definitive answer. I'd lose those interviews if the want you to articulate exact answers when I disagree with the whole premise that anyone should give an exact answer. They are often trick question, because they want to see how you think when there is no one right answer.

Giving Too Many Answers can be Right
If I tried to give a real answer, I'd explain 4-5 (some contradicting each other) and end up sounding like I don't know what I'd do...when what I'm trying to explain is there is never ONE answer to such questions....there is no silver bullet...but maybe Statisticians pride themselves are finding artificial absolutes (silver bullets) when the data is largely a bunch of noise.

[moestavern19]

I have also noticed a lot of the veterans on the forum very upset with the dismissal of Adelman and talking about how Les is selling out team interest by getting rid of coaches.

I thought the Rockets under Rick were horrible in crunch for the most part. Some of that falls on execution, but how many times did we see a final possession go completely wrong under Adelman?

I for one, think McHale is going to turn out to be a very good NBA head coach.

[meh]

Alright, BS is not the right term. But please don't dispute that an articulate interviewee has an advantage in such situations to someone who is a technical genius but has trouble summing up all the nuances into well-defined absolutes ... and ends us saying, "you can't isolate a game into simplistic hypotheticals of 2 or 3 variables and expect me to not be thinking through the 10 other variables. My staff will have 10+ answers to every situation and we'll decide during the game." Basically, dodging the question. I would.

If a person has trouble giving an understandable answer to someone with an MIT graduate degree who basically eat/sleep basketball, how do you expect said person to explain the same thing to people who'd never even get into college normally?

I don't want anyone with communication problems as my head coach. No matter how smart he is. I'd make him a very well paid assistant. But never the head coach.



I hate simple hypotheticals and think they are largely traps, because I have trouble gauging what the interviewee wants as an answer, so I tend to answer by saying how I think and how I prepare myself with really giving an answer. I'd lose those interviews based on articulating exact answers when I disagree with the whole premise that anyone should give an exact answer.

Every game in the NBA is somewhat different from another. There are always minute details. i.e. "45 seconds down by 5 vs 50 seconds down by 3", or "going against a team that likes to play zone with a great center vs a team with defense like the Rockets" and so on.

If you have trouble making good, fast decisions on the spot in the heat of the battle, then you'd make a horrible head coach.

[glimmertwins]

Interesting. A heated argument with a defensive specialist. I like that.
Let's just hope he wasn't wrong because Coach T is a pretty good defensive mind....but I agree - it's more of a promising sign than anything.

[glimmertwins]

Then there's another facet, accessible to the analyst who may not have ever coached. Timeout management. Shot clock management. How to attack a certain type of defense to get a high percentage shot. When to double team and when not to. Etc. These are things you can get a great deal of insight into with analysis and (yes) with "stats" (dirty word, I know).


....not trying to argue your point because I agree with everything you mentioned but for the benefit of the masses who probably don't realize how important this is, this is the type of information that assistant coaches generally help the head coach asses in games. The head coach is the general who makes the call, but the assistants are keeping track and notifying the head coach before the situation arises of potential situations coming up(fouls to give, timeouts, player's minutes/fatigue/rotation, etc).

[heypartner]

If a person has trouble giving an understandable answer to someone with an MIT graduate degree who basically eat/sleep basketball, how do you expect said person to explain the same thing to people who'd never even get into college normally?
You assume the questions are valid. A lot of coaches would not agree that those questions even have a correct answer. It's not about trouble giving an understandable answer; it is about disagreeing that there is a correct answer, so you either explain how you'd deal with the situation and how you think and prepare for them, or you end up giving 4-5 contradictory solutions.

How can you not agree with what I just said? It is exactly what happens in interviews.


If you have trouble making good, fast decisions on the spot in the heat of the battle, then you'd make a horrible head coach.
Answering simplistic hypothetical questions with 1 or 2 variables has nothing to do with being able to make quick decisions on far more variable in a real-life situation. Imagine if you ask a Presidential candidate a simplistic hypothetical...he's going to BS you sound bites and abstract solutions when in fact he might be the best decision-maker ever.

[glimmertwins]

I gotta say, the more and more I read about McHale the more I'm coming around to his signing. My concerns seem to be similar concerns Houston had - late game Xs and Os management and the need to keep him surrounded with a good support staff to focus on that. I'm kind of excited to see how this shakes out.

[heypartner]

I don't want anyone with communication problems as my head coach. No matter how smart he is. I'd make him a very well paid assistant. But never the head coach.
Who said "communication problems.' I said the exact opposite...the guy with the best communication skills has an advantage when faced with simplistic hypotheticals over the actual best real-life, decision-maker/communicator for the job. see: Politics and Business.

No successful coach has communication problems.

[CXbby]

You assume the questions are valid. A lot of coaches would not agree that those questions even have a correct answer. It's not about trouble giving an understandable answer; it is about disagreeing that there is a correct answer, so you either explain how you'd deal with the situation and how you think and prepare for them, or you end up giving 4-5 contradictory solutions.


You assume the questions aren't. How do you know that if the coach has multiple answers and articulates that to Morey, they wouldn't be viewed as answering correctly? How do you know that Morey isn't fully aware that a fluid situation with multiple variables may well have GASP! more than one solution? Hell, I even know that and I didn't go to MIT for statistics.

Where do you get that "statisticians pride themselves on finding artificial absolutes"? What stops statistics from giving multiple answers? That is a pretty big and baseless assumption. And even if it were true, which it is not, a good statistician would understand the limitations of his field and compromise and collaborate to fill in the gaps. Which is exactly what Morey does.

[ico4498]

another RJ fluff piece.

[CXbby]

let's just chalk it all up to this, because i'm tired of the question/answer format of this discussion at this point.

MadMax, what you call "fantasy hypos" is what others would refer to as "analytics". Or the analysis of game situations using statistical tools. The reason why there are "right answers" is because the data says so. You don't need 20 years grinding in the NBA to get those answers, just a good head on your shoulders. Now I am not saying analytics is full-proof, or that Morey didn't consult the many brilliant and experienced basketball minds that he has come in contact with over the years to validate his findings. In fact I can guarantee that he has. But if you believe that type of stuff holds little value, then you will be disappointed to find that it is a big part of the direction the team is going in. An even bigger part now that Adelman, a detractor of it, is gone. Not that you are necessarily wrong, since we still do not have results. But plenty of good teams around the league are proponents of this, including the Dallas Mavericks, which seems to have served them well.

[MadMax]

MadMax, what you call "fantasy hypos" is what others would refer to as "analytics". Or the analysis of game situations using statistical tools. The reason why there are "right answers" is because the data says so. You don't need 20 years grinding in the NBA to get those answers, just a good head on your shoulders. Now I am not saying analytics is full-proof, or that Morey didn't consult the many brilliant and experienced basketball minds that he has come in contact with over the years to validate his findings. In fact I can guarantee that he has. But if you believe that type of stuff holds little value, then you will be disappointed to find that it is a big part of the direction the team is going in. An even bigger part now that Adelman, a detractor of it, is gone. Not that you are necessarily wrong, since we still do not have results. But plenty of good teams around the league are proponents of this, including the Dallas Mavericks, which seems to have served them well.

Let's get a computer to coach the team, then. If it's simply a matter of playing the stats every time....then experience is completely irrelevant. Just plug in a computer and have at it.

There are not right answers to questions with a massive number of undefined variables...maybe there is in the bubble of a conference room...but not in the context of what we'd call "real life." That's where experience matters...to me at least.

What I understand you guys to say is that there are right answers because some formula has determined that. Of course that depends entirely on the context of the makeup of the team in question. My answer for what to do in a crucial situation changes, for instance, if Michael Jordan happens to be wearing my uniform.

[DonnyMost]

Let's get a computer to coach the team, then. If it's simply a matter of playing the stats every time....then experience is completely irrelevant. Just plug in a computer and have at it.


http://www.haikunightincanada.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/robo-coach-2.jpg

[MadMax]

http://www.haikunightincanada.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/robo-coach-2.jpg

Blues failed to make the playoffs this year!!!!


;)

[pgabriel]

how does a stat gm evaulate a guy on in game situations in an interview. that makes no sense.

[heypartner]

You assume the questions aren't. How do you know that if the coach has multiple answers and articulates that to Morey, they wouldn't be viewed as answering correctly? How do you know that Morey isn't fully aware that a fluid situation with multiple variables may well have GASP! more than one solution? Hell, I even know that and I didn't go to MIT for statistics.
You're exactly. I completely agree.

Don't get me wrong; I like the article and I am not against Coach. All I'm saying is some personalities, like in Politics and Business, will be analytical to the degree of being overly-complicated, but are still the best for the job. The art of doing the interview.

l'm also saying, like durvasa and MadMax, we shouldn't read too much into the end-game hypotheticals. Answers to hypotheticals aren't the best way to measures a person real-time decision-making -- processing all the options and picking the right one in 20 seconds. Knowing all the options is not the same as the proven ability to pick the right one.

When Morey makes a big deal about, "It made me realize how smart he is and how he knows his stuff. ... Believe me, he'll know what to do at the end of game." that reads like "we are not worried about that aspect of him, anymore." It also reads like maybe Morey didn't really know the answers, because Adelman and staff never told him. And he had the most fun talking to McHale. ;)

Anyhoot...one other point: There is a possibility that McHale called Ainge for advice on what to expect from a stats dude like Morey. And Morey tipped him off to what stats he analyzes the most. Then it is elementary to prepare for end game situation questions.

[MadMax]

how does a stat gm evaulate a guy on in game situations in an interview. that makes no sense.

holy crap, thank you. i thought i was the only one.

[CXbby]

Let's get a computer to coach the team, then. If it's simply a matter of playing the stats every time....then experience is completely irrelevant. Just plug in a computer and have at it.

Because NO ONE is saying analytics alone is good enough. That however does not mean it is useless.

There are not right answers to questions with a massive number of undefined variables...maybe there is in the bubble of a conference room...but not in the context of what we'd call "real life." That's where experience matters...to me at least.

"Undefined" variables? Or variables you personally cannot define? I guess if the variables were really undefinable then there would be no answers at all. In reality, anything that has an impact on the game can be quantified. There are plenty of variables, and they are plenty definable for those who know how to define them, and there are plenty of right answers to those who know how to ask the right questions. What exactly does "experience" mean to you? Is it not just an accumulation of data in the human brain over years of repetition? Any computer can do that easily. The hard part is knowing the right questions.

What I understand you guys to say is that there are right answers because some formula has determined that. Of course that depends entirely on the context of the makeup of the team in question. My answer for what to do in a crucial situation changes, for instance, if Michael Jordan happens to be wearing my uniform.

How are you assuming that the "context of the makeup of the team", "crucial situation changes", and "Michael Jordan in your uniform" can't be inputs in the formula?

Let's stop and think for a second. No one is saying it is as EASY as making a formula. That is like saying making money is as easy as creating a program to trade stocks. However, could it be that you and me are simply not very good at formula-making? That there are very smart people out there, maybe from very smart places like MIT, who are capable of making formulas for questions that you seem to deem as un-formula-makeable?

[TheGoldenGreek]

Morey should just say Adelman is a dumbass. Adelman last minute plays were atrocious. A ****ing disaster, anybody looks like a genius compared to Rick.

http://hoopeduponline.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/rick_adelman.jpg[

[CXbby]

When Morey makes a big deal about, "It made me realize how smart he is and how he knows his stuff. ... Believe me, he'll know what to do at the end of game." that reads like "we are not worried about that aspect of him, anymore."

That those end of game situational analysis aren't THAT crucial, but simply reassures them of what they saw as McHale's weak points? Yea, I think that makes sense.

[sammy]

A leader (HC) doesn't try to yell at an opposing player while he shoots a 3 point shot.

That's what I saw Casey do last night. Just sayin..

[heypartner]

and there are plenty of right answers to those who know how to ask the right questions. What exactly does "experience" mean to you?

You seem way too defensive of Morey.

Experience is the ability to make the right decision at the right time, given contradictory possible solutions. Knowing all the possible solutions is useless if you can't pick the right one in game situations. That's the difference between someone who studies coaches and someone who makes the decisions and invents the solutions.

[MadMax]

Because NO ONE is saying analytics alone is good enough. That however does not mean it is useless.

I'm not saying anyone is saying that. That's not the subject of this discussion. The discussion was centered around Morey's comments that he knew McHale was the right candidate when he heard him give answers to hypothetical game situations. I have repeatedly posted the reasons why I think that's ridiculous.

"Undefined" variables? Or variables you personally cannot define? I guess if the variables were really undefinable then there would be no answers at all. In reality, anything that has an impact on the game can be quantified. There are plenty of variables, and they are plenty definable for those who know how to define them, and there are plenty of right answers to those who know how to ask the right questions.

That's awesome. But in the context of an interview...if you're asking someone what they'd do in situation X...there are so many variables that it makes the discussion nearly meaningless. I can only assume that the most important variable...who is on your roster...was resolved by saying, "assuming our current roster." Because my answer is entirely different if I have the Heat's roster, for instance. In addition, I'd want to know who has a hot hand that night....where's he been hitting from. Those are "undefined" variables, because for the purpose of an interview, you haven't sat there and watched a team perform for 47 minutes that day....the entire context of the game leading up to the crucial point is non-existent.

What exactly does "experience" mean to you? Is it not just an accumulation of data in the human brain over years of repetition? Any computer can do that easily. The hard part is knowing the right questions.

:) this is where we'll part. I think it is a lot easier to simulate and talk about when the heat isn't on you in the moment. If you've been through it...that's experience. Guys with experience in those coaching situations are the ones I want evaluating the answers to those hypotheticals.


How are you assuming that the "context of the makeup of the team", "crucial situation changes", and "Michael Jordan in your uniform" can't be inputs in the formula?

Of course they could. So do you think it's a productive use of time in an interview to ask him what he'd do if MJ were in his lineup?

Let's stop and think for a second. No one is saying it is as EASY as making a formula. That is like saying making money is as easy as creating a program to trade stocks. However, could it be that you and me are simply not very good at formula-making? That there are very smart people out there, maybe from very smart places like MIT, who are capable of making formulas for questions that you seem to deem as un-formula-makeable?

This isn't even remotely responsive to the discussion I'm having. You're arguing the big picture here with respect to statistical analysis. That's not the subject of what we've been discussing here, aside from it being tangential.

[Seven]

Is there a prospect out there named Kevin? Kevin McHale has done very well drafting Kevins, with Garnett and Love both very nice picks.

He has done much less well drafting players not named Kevin.
Weak Draft! Only Kevin is Kevin Anderson, and he won't be drafted.

[Carl Herrera]

Jesus ****ing Christ.

Justice didn't even write out McHale's response and the exchange between McHale and Morey and you people are already complaining because of the topic of the discussion? Of course, there are a number of variables to be considered (for example, do you go for 2 or 3 when down 3 with 50 seconds would depend on, among other things, (a) whether you have good 3 pt shooters on the team, (b) how well your offense/defense is operating against the opponent that night, etc.) and I'd bet those factors are part of the discussion, as well as what you should do as a rule of thumb given certain basic parameters.

[MadMax]

Jesus ****ing Christ.

Justice didn't even write out McHale's response and the exchange between McHale and Morey and you people are already complaining because of the topic of the discussion? Of course, there are a number of variables to be considered (for example, do you go for 2 or 3 when down 3 with 50 seconds would depend on, among other things, (a) whether you have good 3 pt shooters on the team, (b) how well your offense/defense is operating against the opponent that night, etc.) and I'd bet those factors are part of the discussion, as well as what you should do as a rule of thumb given certain basic parameters.

missing

the

point

cxbby is concerned with what was specifically asked, and that's where the discussion evolved to...but that's not how this discussion started.

[Mr. Clutch]

Were the questions multiple choice?

[CXbby]

This isn't even remotely responsive to the discussion I'm having. You're arguing the big picture here with respect to statistical analysis. That's not the subject of what we've been discussing here, aside from it being tangential.

If that is the case then I apologize. But it seems to me that you are saying there is no way for Morey, a non-basketball guy, to know what the "right answers" to his questions are. While I am saying you do not have to be a "basketball lifer" to analyze situations, through statistical analysis, and figure out those answers.

[pgabriel]

If that is the case then I apologize. But it seems to me that you are saying there is no way for Morey, a non-basketball guy, to know what the "right answers" to his questions are. While I am saying you do not have to be a "basketball lifer" to analyze situations, through statistical analysis, and figure out those answers.

If i'm interviewing for accounting position, i may talk to the sales guy, about sales. this is my problem with the set up, morey is there to make personnel decisions. and that's great, i like morey, i like what he has brought to the organization. however, being the gm he is, and the credentials he brings, his relationship should be more of a working relationship not a top down management. morey is not a coach, that is not a knock on him, that is simply a fact.

[MadMax]

If that is the case then I apologize. But it seems to me that you are saying there is no way for Morey, a non-basketball guy, to know what the "right answers" to his questions are. While I am saying you do not have to be a "basketball lifer" to analyze situations, through statistical analysis, and figure out those answers.

That's part of my concern. I would prefer someone with real experience coaching judging coaching decisions in hypos at an interview. More importantly, I would prefer the GM (who has not coached) not refer to the answers to those hypos as the critical factor that made McHale his choice...for a lot of reasons. I posted those reasons earlier.

[MadMax]

If i'm interviewing for accounting position, i may talk to the sales guy, about sales. this is my problem with the set up, morey is there to make personnel decisions. and that's great, i like morey, i like what he has brought to the organization. however, being the gm he is, and the credentials he brings, his relationship should be more of a working relationship not a top down management. morey is not a coach, that is not a knock on him, that is simply a fact.

this. i'd rep you, pgabriel, but i have to spread it around again.

and having him say that the key factor in this whole interview that distinguished mchale was his answers to in-game coaching hypos? that's mind-numbing to me. it's not that they asked these questions..it's that somehow our GM thinks he has the "right" answers...that there ARE "right answers...and that he as a GM was most persuaded by that.

[Mr. Clutch]

That's part of my concern. I would prefer someone with real experience coaching judging coaching decisions in hypos at an interview. More importantly, I would prefer the GM (who has not coached) not refer to the answers to those hypos as the critical factor that made McHale his choice...for a lot of reasons. I posted those reasons earlier.

How often do teams use coaches to interview coaches when hiring?

[pgabriel]

How often do teams use coaches to interview coaches when hiring?

that's not the point. i guess those questions have to be asked, but for justice to do a whole article on it? i guess morey was trying to avoid saying, "i really liked kevin because he won't get in the way of my personnel decisions"

[Carl Herrera]

that's not the point. i guess those questions have to be asked, but for justice to do a whole article on it? i guess morey was trying to avoid saying, "i really liked kevin because he won't get in the way of my personnel decisions"

It was only one part of the article. Plenty of other things discussed. Plenty of other things discussed during those interviews, too. They took 20 hours after all.

[pgabriel]

It was only one part of the article. Plenty of other things discussed. Plenty of other things discussed during those interviews, too. They took 20 hours after all.

"Daryl Morey remembers one moment"

[MadMax]

How often do teams use coaches to interview coaches when hiring?

i don't know. but if in-game coaching decision is my number one criteria, i'm gonna make sure we have someone in those interviews who has experience in the real of in-game coaching.

if that was done...great. but what i read here is that morey, himself, was most persuaded by his answers to those in-game coaching hypos.

[Mr. Clutch]

that's not the point. i guess those questions have to be asked, but for justice to do a whole article on it? i guess morey was trying to avoid saying, "i really liked kevin because he won't get in the way of my personnel decisions"

I agree in general...but people seem to be saying that they prefer coaches to judge coaching moves in interviews. I don't see how that is possible.

Also, it is Richard Justice. Let's keep that in mind.

[MadMax]

I agree in general...but people seem to be saying that they prefer coaches to judge coaching moves in interviews. I don't see how that is possible.

Also, it is Richard Justice. Let's keep that in mind.

This is the quote I'm talking about. If Darryl didn't say this, then we're wasting our time:

"We analyze the heck out of those game situations," Morey said, "and Kevin hit the ball out of the park. It made me realize how smart he is and how he knows his stuff. That was the moment for me. Believe me, he's going to know what to do at the end of games."

[pgabriel]

I agree in general...but people seem to be saying that they prefer coaches to judge coaching moves in interviews. I don't see how that is possible.

Also, it is Richard Justice. Let's keep that in mind.

I prefer morey not to be in charge of hiring a coach, but that's a whole nother discussion. I do want he and the coach to have a great relationship

[MadMax]

I prefer morey not to be in charge of hiring a coach, but that's a whole nother discussion. I do want he and the coach to have a great relationship

i'm not sure it is a whole other discussion, frankly.

there are certain things I would DEFINITELY want morey's input on in hiring a coach.

there are other things where his experience in evaluating would be limited. in-game coaching decisions is probably chief on that list for me, frankly.

[Carl Herrera]

CD, who sat on the bnech with Rudy, is still employed by the team. I'm sure there are plenty of people in the coaching ranks with whom Morey has discussed these topics-- JVG, who attended Morey's conference, for one. It's said they've also spoken a lot to each candidates' former players and colleagues and watched/broken down a ton of tapes, so it's not like everything depended on the interviews, or even that one moment during the 20hour interview process.

So, whether a former coach sat in on the interview or not is not all that relevant and it seem petty to complain about it especially in light of the rest of the homework the team did about each candidate.

[MadMax]

CD, who sat on the bnech with Rudy, is still employed by the team. I'm sure there are plenty of people in the coaching ranks with whom Morey has discussed these topics-- JVG, who attended Morey's conference, for one. It's said they've also spoken a lot to each candidates' former players and colleagues and watched/broken down a ton of tapes, so it's not like everything depended on the interviews, or even that one moment during the 20hour interview process.

So, whether a former coach sat in on the interview or not is not all that relevant and it seem petty to complain about it especially in light of the rest of the homework the team did about each candidate.

If this isn't a true statement...or Darryl didn't make it...then, as I said, we're wasting our time. Otherwise....

"We analyze the heck out of those game situations," Morey said, "and Kevin hit the ball out of the park. It made me realize how smart he is and how he knows his stuff. That was the moment for me. Believe me, he's going to know what to do at the end of games."

[heypartner]

How often do teams use coaches to interview coaches when hiring?
Maybe a lot as a ratio to the teams who ask such test questions. Some GMs and presidents were ex coaches. CD is on our staff. Maybe you hire a consultant if you want to evaluate their answers to in-game situation hypotheticals. But, I assume not too many teams use Morey's approach in trying to see if their scouting statistics align with the coach's answers.

And in the end, maybe Morey did have consulting from qualified coaches, and maybe he didn't really mean to say McHale answers were the #1 influencing reason he picked him vs all McHale's other skills and experiences.

[pgabriel]

HOWEVA

i have told the story on this site many a time that morey's kid and my kid played 5-6 year old ball together. morey did do some coaching, so maybe that counts. and with that, happy friday everybody:)

[Mr. Clutch]

i'm not sure it is a whole other discussion, frankly.

there are certain things I would DEFINITELY want morey's input on in hiring a coach.

there are other things where his experience in evaluating would be limited. in-game coaching decisions is probably chief on that list for me, frankly.

It is a fair point. To me, the coaches Morey is interview should know more than Morey about this stuff.

I do think, though, that Morey has some interesting "stats- based" ideas on coaching moves during a game. Which I'm sure would be controversial on this board.

[durvasa]

If this isn't a true statement...or Darryl didn't make it...then, as I said, we're wasting our time. Otherwise....

"We analyze the heck out of those game situations," Morey said, "and Kevin hit the ball out of the park. It made me realize how smart he is and how he knows his stuff. That was the moment for me. Believe me, he's going to know what to do at the end of games."

We disagree, but I interpreted that as the Rockets were otherwise impressed with what McHale brought to the table and the knowledge he showed as a tactician put it over the top. Whether that's their genuine feelings or its just PR spin is another matter.

I guess you don't feel Morey has the proper experience or background to assess tactics. In my view, tactics is one facet of coaching that a stats-oriented analyst who has been in the NBA for several years could have a pretty good handle on. That said, tactics is but one aspect of basketball. You can know all the right tactics, but that doesn't guarantee you can put together a championship quality roster with a championship-level coach.

[HillBoy]

That's part of my concern. I would prefer someone with real experience coaching judging coaching decisions in hypos at an interview. More importantly, I would prefer the GM (who has not coached) not refer to the answers to those hypos as the critical factor that made McHale his choice...for a lot of reasons. I posted those reasons earlier.
I agree but feel that you are missing the point here. This process was never about finding a qualified experienced head coach in the vein of Adelman. No, it was about the following of an agenda - Morey's - to prove the his brand of MoneyBall will work in the NBA and as a consequence, that coaching qualifications really don't matter. As such, he was looking for someone who would validate his agenda which is why there was such a premium placed on McHale's interview performance rather than his qualifications as a real coach. McHale was shrewd enough to say exactly what Morey wants to hear and said it with brilliance, flair and whit and that sealed the deal. So far, all the McHale PR has centered on his "leadership" qualities and his "fantastic". You will notice that any mention of McHale's coaching acumen is nowhere to be found until today when Dick Justice got the PR blitzkrieg rolling by reading from the official script as Morey and Les emerged to blow sunshine up everyone's collective behinds. After today's announcement, I am certain that the balance of power in the West just shifted to Houston because after all they just hired a coach who is a "leader" and a fantastic interview to boot.

[durvasa]

From Morey's interview with Jim Rome today (me paraphrasing):


Rome: Did he just kill it in the interview?

Morey:

I'd say he was a little bit of an outsider, he did kill it in the interview, but anybody can talk a good game in an interview.

we really studied the players he worked with how they got better.
how he got better as a coach between his 1st and 2nd stint.
how he did better than the coach he took over for in both his stints.
how he was Coach of the Month his second time until Al Jefferson went down.
studied all those things, did a lot of background, he really throughout the process kept impressing us more and more.

Rome: what did he say during the interview that impressed you the most?

Morey:

I knew Kevin from my time in Boston. we did a lot of joint workouts with Minnesota while he was there. I knew him as a person. I was just trying to get to the heart of, was he a leader, was he a guy who wants to improve, was he an intelligent high basketball IQ guy. i think its rare to find a guy as intelligent as Kevin be a former player. the best ones become good coaches, and I think that will be the case with Kevin.


From the account here, it doesn't seem like there was just one thing that sold Morey on McHale. They did the background, and then liked what they heard in the interview. Its more fluid than "Oh, you answered all my hypothetical scenario questions correctly. Kevin McHale -- you are hired!"

[Easy]

i think its rare to find a guy as intelligent as Kevin be a former player. the best ones become good coaches, and I think that will be the case with Kevin.
Is it just me or did Morey just say that basketball players are generally dumb?

[durvasa]

Is it just me or did Morey just say that basketball players are generally dumb?

He said that basketball players are generally dumber than Kevin McHale.

[Aleron]

Is it just me or did Morey just say that basketball players are generally dumb?

I think most players realise they're not mensa guys

[MadMax]

From the account here, it doesn't seem like there was just one thing that sold Morey on McHale. They did the background, and then liked what they heard in the interview. Its more fluid than "Oh, you answered all my hypothetical scenario questions correctly. Kevin McHale -- you are hired!"

I agree...I like this account far better.

[Aleron]

From the account here, it doesn't seem like there was just one thing that sold Morey on McHale. They did the background, and then liked what they heard in the interview. Its more fluid than "Oh, you answered all my hypothetical scenario questions correctly. Kevin McHale -- you are hired!"

With supposed 10 hour+ interviews and Morey being such a statistician, it was never going to be one thing.

[tiger0330]

Sounds like the Rox did their due diligence and got the right guy. You can see that leadership and communication ability on TV but it's his in game management that was the question given his limited coaching experience but he answered all of Morey's questions and he's probably experienced every "up by one with 8 seconds left" situation that you can imagine so I don't think we'll lose games because of his lack of coaching experience.

He was a HOF player that made the most of his limited physical gifts to become a great player, his biggest value to the Rox may be to take 2 players with great physical gifts in Thabeet and Hill and make them good players.

[meh]

From Morey's interview with Jim Rome today (me paraphrasing):


Rome: Did he just kill it in the interview?

Morey:

I'd say he was a little bit of an outsider, he did kill it in the interview, but anybody can talk a good game in an interview.

we really studied the players he worked with how they got better.
how he got better as a coach between his 1st and 2nd stint.
how he did better than the coach he took over for in both his stints.
how he was Coach of the Month his second time until Al Jefferson went down.
studied all those things, did a lot of background, he really throughout the process kept impressing us more and more.

Rome: what did he say during the interview that impressed you the most?

Morey:

I knew Kevin from my time in Boston. we did a lot of joint workouts with Minnesota while he was there. I knew him as a person. I was just trying to get to the heart of, was he a leader, was he a guy who wants to improve, was he an intelligent high basketball IQ guy. i think its rare to find a guy as intelligent as Kevin be a former player. the best ones become good coaches, and I think that will be the case with Kevin.


From the account here, it doesn't seem like there was just one thing that sold Morey on McHale. They did the background, and then liked what they heard in the interview. Its more fluid than "Oh, you answered all my hypothetical scenario questions correctly. Kevin McHale -- you are hired!"

Thanks for the recap. I can't stand Jim Rome, so I didn't listen to the interview. Overall, it seems like regular Morey for being meticulous and thorough in his research and preparation.

Regardless of what one may think of Morey's knowledge or expertise or ego or give too many interviews or whatever. He is probably among the hardest working GMs in the league.

[TheFreak]

There is probably nothing that could be said that would make you or TheFreak happy with this hire. Your animosity over the Adelman firing/hatred toward Les will make you second-guess just about anything that comes out about McHale or the Rockets.

It's mostly those that have been around for a while who are most up in arms about the new coach (you can throw Deckard in there as well). I agree with CXbby -- sad to see you old timers become so irrational in wake of these recent events. I wasn't happy about the Adelman firing either, but it doesn't mean I have to lose my sense of rational thought.

There is nothing irrational about pointing out the fact that Less has an irrational tendency of scapegoating great coaches. That's all on the record. There is nothing irrational about refusing to believe that this hire will change this team's fortunes in any meaningful way. Maybe since us 'old timers' have seen this play out three times in a row now, our reaction isn't as irrational as you make it out to be.

[TheFreak]

If you think that Adelman > any potential coach with ANY given roster and ANY given direction of the team, then I'm afraid I have to disagree.


If the direction of the team is to win games, which has been stated repeatedly by the owner and GM, then I think Rick Adelman is as qualified as any coach that ever coached.

[TheFreak]

Morey:

I'd say he was a little bit of an outsider, he did kill it in the interview, but anybody can talk a good game in an interview.

we really studied the players he worked with how they got better.
how he got better as a coach between his 1st and 2nd stint.
how he did better than the coach he took over for in both his stints.
how he was Coach of the Month his second time until Al Jefferson went down.
studied all those things, did a lot of background, he really throughout the process kept impressing us more and more.

The problem for Leslie with having a GM being candid like Morey and saying things like coaching only makes a difference of +/- 5 wins, is that it's easy to tell when he's giving us the standard BS/PR/company line stuff.

[Deckard]

There is probably nothing that could be said that would make you or TheFreak happy with this hire. Your animosity over the Adelman firing/hatred toward Les will make you second-guess just about anything that comes out about McHale or the Rockets.

It's mostly those that have been around for a while who are most up in arms about the new coach (you can throw Deckard in there as well). I agree with CXbby -- sad to see you old timers become so irrational in wake of these recent events. I wasn't happy about the Adelman firing either, but it doesn't mean I have to lose my sense of rational thought.
Oh, thank you very much. So it is irrational to be disturbed about the firing of a coach who led this team to a 22 game winning streak, second longest in league history, during his first season, equaling the all-time league record for consecutive wins by a double-digit margin, managing the second perfect record for a month in team history, and the longest road winning streak (12 games) in team history. Who led this team to 53-29 record and the second round in the Western Conference in his second season, with McGrady in a suit, taking the defending champion Lakers to seven games in the process, something no other team managed throughout the Lakers' run in the playoffs. Who then lost Yao Ming for the next two seasons, yet managed winning seasons with a bunch of role players. Who has a 860-537 record in 18 seasons, leading his teams into the playoffs in 16 of those 18 seasons, reaching the Finals twice, and who coached the Rockets to a 108-56 record, the highest winning percentage of any coach in franchise history.

Yes, it is completely irrational to be disturbed by his firing, and disturbed about his replacement being a person who has a 39-55 record in parts of two seasons. You make perfect sense. And the topper is reading continual slams at Adelman from numerous people here for his lousy coaching, lousy defenses, a lousy relationship with the front office, and other lousy things that I can't recall at the moment and have no desire to search for. Sure, my reaction is irrational. Again, thanks for that. Morey is a God, Alexander is an owner on the cutting edge of societal evolution, McHale is going to be the next Rudy T, and Adelman is just a dumb bastard who should have retired years ago, doing us all a favor.

It all makes perfect sense. Let's not have a negative opinion about what's played out so far. Let's not wait for the hiring of assistants to further judge just what in the hell Morey and Alexander think they're doing. Let's not see what the draft brings us, or what roster moves Morey makes this summer in the wake of this decision. Let's just all sit in a circle and sing kumbaya. I'll bring the Kool-Aid.

[CXbby]

Oh, thank you very much. So it is irrational to be disturbed about the firing of a coach who led this team to a 22 game winning streak, second longest in league history, during his first season, equaling the all-time league record for consecutive wins by a double-digit margin, managing the second perfect record for a month in team history, and the longest road winning streak (12 games) in team history. Who led this team to 53-29 record and the second round in the Western Conference in his second season, with McGrady in a suit, taking the defending champion Lakers to seven games in the process, something no other team managed throughout the Lakers' run in the playoffs. Who then lost Yao Ming for the next two seasons, yet managed winning seasons with a bunch of role players. Who has a 860-537 record in 18 seasons, leading his teams into the playoffs in 16 of those 18 seasons, reaching the Finals twice, and who coached the Rockets to a 108-56 record, the highest winning percentage of any coach in franchise history.



Well, if you are going to give ALL the credit to Adelman for those things, which you clearly are, then yeah that is pretty irrational.

[Deckard]

Well, if you are going to give ALL the credit to Adelman for those things, which you clearly are, then yeah that is pretty irrational.

I'm trying really hard to be polite, so why don't you show me where I said Adelman deserves ALL the credit for "those things?" Thanks in advance.

[CXbby]

I'm trying really hard to be polite, so why don't you show me where I said Adelman deserves ALL the credit for "those things?" Thanks in advance.

Oh, no need to be polite. Go at it.

If Adelman doesn't deserve ALL the credit for those things, which no coach would deserve, then what exactly is your point? Lenny Wilkens and Don Nelson are both more "winninger" than Adelman. So what?

[Deckard]

Oh, no need to be polite. Go at it.

If Adelman doesn't deserve ALL the credit for those things, which no coach would deserve, then what exactly is your point? Lenny Wilkens and Don Nelson are both more "winninger" than Adelman. So what?

Pardon me if I remain polite. Your statement, with all respect due, is nonsensical.

[CXbby]

Your statement, with all respect due, is nonsensical.

Well, of course it is. If it made sense to you we would be agreeing! lol

[meh]

Deckard, you're basically destroying your own argument. You keep listing Adelman's accomplishments, as if a team led by T-Mac and Yao is comparable to a team led Al Jefferson for half a season.

By your logic, The Sacramento Kings were idiotic to hire Adelman, who was coming off of two losing seasons at Golden State. Which clearly showed, by your logic, that Adelman could not handle a roster without prime Clyde Drexler.

Also by your logic, the Rockets were idiotic to not have given Rudy T a lifetime contract, because Rudy won 2 more championships than any of his successors(or predecessors for that matter). And that you should've stopped watching the Rockets back when they replaced Rudy with JVG. Since that would've been a much bigger travesty than anything Morey/Les has done recently.

Also by your logic, if Adelman should get credit for the 22-game winning streak among other things(however much you deem appropriate), he should also get the blame for never touching that streak again, or 50 wins again. If a coach is really that important a team's record, then Adelman should also be pulling off 10 to 15 game winning streaks with the current roster. So why hasn't he? Did he lose his magic touch over the last two seasons?

What's weird is that you blame Adelman's shortcomings on the roster - he failed because he didn't have players - but ignore the roster when Adelman was at his peak record wise. It's a classic case of getting too much credit when the team wins, but not enough blame when the team loses.

[Glenyo]

but you know if we dont make playoffs, the blames on him ?

[CXbby]

Deckard, you're basically destroying your own argument. You keep listing Adelman's accomplishments, as if a team led by T-Mac and Yao is comparable to a team led Al Jefferson for half a season.

By your logic, The Sacramento Kings were idiotic to hire Adelman, who was coming off of two losing seasons at Golden State. Which clearly showed, by your logic, that Adelman could not handle a roster without prime Clyde Drexler.

Also by your logic, the Rockets were idiotic to not have given Rudy T a lifetime contract, because Rudy won 2 more championships than any of his successors(or predecessors for that matter). And that you should've stopped watching the Rockets back when they replaced Rudy with JVG. Since that would've been a much bigger travesty than anything Morey/Les has done recently.

Also by your logic, if Adelman should get credit for the 22-game winning streak among other things(however much you deem appropriate), he should also get the blame for never touching that streak again, or 50 wins again. If a coach is really that important a team's record, then Adelman should also be pulling off 10 to 15 game winning streaks with the current roster. So why hasn't he? Did he lose his magic touch over the last two seasons?

What's weird is that you blame Adelman's shortcomings on the roster - he failed because he didn't have players - but ignore the roster when Adelman was at his peak record wise. It's a classic case of getting too much credit when the team wins, but not enough blame when the team loses.

This, my friend, is "nonsensical". ;)

http://roflrazzi.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/celebrity-pictures-tim-curry-common-sense.jpg

[Deckard]

Deckard, you're basically destroying your own argument. You keep listing Adelman's accomplishments, as if a team led by T-Mac and Yao is comparable to a team led Al Jefferson for half a season.

By your logic, The Sacramento Kings were idiotic to hire Adelman, who was coming off of two losing seasons at Golden State. Which clearly showed, by your logic, that Adelman could not handle a roster without prime Clyde Drexler.

Also by your logic, the Rockets were idiotic to not have given Rudy T a lifetime contract, because Rudy won 2 more championships than any of his successors(or predecessors for that matter). And that you should've stopped watching the Rockets back when they replaced Rudy with JVG. Since that would've been a much bigger travesty than anything Morey/Les has done recently.

Also by your logic, if Adelman should get credit for the 22-game winning streak among other things(however much you deem appropriate), he should also get the blame for never touching that streak again, or 50 wins again. If a coach is really that important a team's record, then Adelman should also be pulling off 10 to 15 game winning streaks with the current roster. So why hasn't he? Did he lose his magic touch over the last two seasons?

What's weird is that you blame Adelman's shortcomings on the roster - he failed because he didn't have players - but ignore the roster when Adelman was at his peak record wise. It's a classic case of getting too much credit when the team wins, but not enough blame when the team loses.
How you managed to pull all of that nonsense out of my post is a mystery to me. Try a course in reading comprehension.

[CXbby]

How you managed to pull all of that nonsense out of my post is a mystery to me. Try a course in reading comprehension.

Deckard, with all due respect, instead of telling those replying to you that they need "a course in reading comprehension", or that they "have a reading disability", or that they are "not as smart as you thought", or that they are being "deliberately obtuse", or anything else that happens to come to your mind or out of your keyboard, maybe... just MAYBE, you should re-read some of the things you've written yourself lately. Then you might understand where some of us are coming from. Assuming that you are capable of overcoming those things you accuse of us, yourself.

After all, what do you think is more likely? That you are still suffering a state of shell shock from losing a successful and favorite coach, leading to some statements that do not make much sense, or simply ones you don't really mean? Or are we just making things up in our minds to collude and jump on you for no reason? Let's not make it "you against to world" now, right?

[Mr. Clutch]

After all, what do you think is more likely? That you are still suffering a state of shell shock from losing a successful and favorite coach, leading to some statements that do not make much sense, or simply ones you don't really mean? Or are we just making things up in our minds to collude and jump on you for no reason?

How about...neither.

[napalm_black]

Fact: Adelman has consistently proven his worth via respectable records with teams with lukewarm talent.

Kevin McHale is a giant question mark after sucking terribly with a poor team, and his resume leaves little to be excited about from a fan perspective.

He has potential, and that seems to be what we're banking on. It is what it is.

[CXbby]

Fact: Adelman has consistently proven his worth via respectable records with teams with lukewarm talent.

Kevin McHale is a giant question mark after sucking terribly with a poor team, and his resume leaves little to be excited about from a fan perspective.

He has potential, and that seems to be what we're banking on. It is what it is.

Super Fact: Adelman has consistently proven his worth via lukewarm records with teams with lukewarm talent. And respectable records with teams with respectable talent.

Unless two straight lottery seasons here, and in Golden state is anything beyond lukewarm?

[napalm_black]

Fact: Adelman has consistently proven his worth via lukewarm records with teams with lukewarm talent. And respectable records with teams with respectable talent.

Unless two straight lottery seasons here, and in Golden state is anything beyond lukewarm?
I figured you'd mirror my phrasing. How mechanical of you. Maybe we can just avoid being cute, as I have no doubt you can easily contradict anything, no matter how generally accepted.

Most self-respecting basketball fans will easily admit Rick Adelman has had an amazing career with rosters that are middle of the league on the talent scale. You'll undoubtedly disagree.

The bad seasons with the Rockets can be blamed on the roster (particularly a lack of star power and a capable center). This does not absolve Adelman of criticism, such as underdeveloping some players, playing favorites to the detriment of the squad, bad substitutions, and general stubbornness.

It simply seems to me that few coaches in the world would have done a majorly better job with our 2010 roster than Rick Adelman did. This is the same reason I don't hate Morey, although it was his fault that we put so much hope in Yao "highest paid cheerleader" Ming. :)

[napalm_black]

To give you further info on my stance: I'm still mad Mike Brown won C.o.Y over Rick Adelman. :)

I don't hate McHale and I'm fine with Adelman leaving. What's the use. I want what's best for the team just like anyone, but I won't turn around and forget what Adelman did simply because he's gone.

[CXbby]

Maybe we can just avoid being cute, as I have no doubt you can easily contradict anything, no matter how generally accepted.

Honestly, I have little interest in how "generally accepted" anything is. My only concern is whether it is right.

Most self-respecting basketball fans will easily admit Rick Adelman has had an amazing career with rosters that are middle of the league on the talent scale. You'll undoubtedly disagree.

I wouldn't disagree with the "amazing career" part, but yes certianly the "middle of the league on the talent scale" part. Unless you consider his teams in Portland with prime Clyde Drexler or his teams in Sac with prime Webber/Peja or his first couple of years in Houston with prime Tmac/Yao as "middle of the league" talent?

The bad seasons with the Rockets can be blamed on the roster (particularly a lack of star power and a capable center). This does not absolve Adelman of criticism, such as underdeveloping some players, playing favorites to the detriment of the squad, bad substitutions, and general stubbornness.

It simply seems to me, undeniably, that few coaches in the world would have done a significantly better job with our 2010 roster than Rick Adelman did. This is the same reason I don't hate Morey; however it was also his fault that we put so much hope in Yao "highest paid cheerleader" Ming.

Seems like we don't disagree on anything really, not sure why you are up in arms. I wouldn't even blame him too much on "playing favorites", "bad subs" or "stubbornness". I doubt it would have made too much of a difference either way. With a lesser roster, or "lukewarm" as you call it, his results have been correspondingly mediocre. I have nothing against Rick Adelman the coach, just the myth that he is some miracle worker turning chicken **** into wine, and water into chicken salad. Or whatever the saying.

[heypartner]

Deckard, with all due respect, instead of telling those replying to you that they need "a course in reading comprehension", or that they "have a reading disability", or that they are "not as smart as you thought", or that they are being "deliberately obtuse", or anything else that happens to come to your mind or out of your keyboard, maybe... just MAYBE, you should re-read some of the things you've written yourself lately. Then you might understand where some of us are coming from. Assuming that you are capable of overcoming those things you accuse of us, yourself.

After all, what do you think is more likely? That you are still suffering a state of shell shock from losing a successful and favorite coach, leading to some statements that do not make much sense, or simply ones you don't really mean? Or are we just making things up in our minds to collude and jump on you for no reason? Let's not make it "you against to world" now, right?

CXbby,

bull****. don't be an idiot. durvasa is well understood. meh? not so much.

[CXbby]

CXbby,

bull****. don't be an idiot. durvasa is well understood. meh? not so much.

Heypartner,

Dingleberry. What the hell are you talking about? How did durvasa get into the conversation? Where was he mentioned and when did he chime in? WUT? :confused:

[Chris Jent MVP]

Rick Adelman is as qualified as any coach that ever coached.


doesn't that also mean that any coach that ever coached is as qualified as rick adelman ???

if a=b, then b=a.