NBA trying to shut down clutchcity.net

[DREAMer]

BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING!

I hate stuff like this. Clutch do anything it takes to keep your site up and running. Hire hackers to break into Stern's home computer and wreak havoc on him and any other arsehole in the NBA that is against it's own fans having any interest in what goes on in pro basketball.

Okay, okay, maybe not hackers. That's pushing it a little to far, and the FBI probably 'tagged' this post for using the word. So, forget hackers; hire HITMEN. There that'll give someone at the bureau something to do.

Sorry, but stuff like this really does chap my hide...

Is my 'signature' illegal cause it includes the name of a player currently employeed by the new Communist controlled NBA?

------------------
I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem.

[Joe Fan]

If you dont mind a suggestion--

This is the sort of story USA Today or the Wall Street Journal, etc., might be interested in.

If you can generate some good PR for yourself so that the NBA looks like thugs, then perhaps they will back off.

I have the addresses names for USA Today editors. Let me know if you want them.

[Jovi]

This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard! They can´t close the best Rockets page in the Web..I spend half of the time visiting it...VERDAMMT NOCH EINS!

can´t we junk email the NBA or try it with serious letters? i will try!

------------------
President, CEO and Commissioner of BBS Sim League

members.aol.com/bebulsky/sim (http://members.aol.com/bebulsky/sim)

[AntiSonic]

What a bunch of jealous idiots...

How about a petition to get the NBA off of Clutch's back? I'm sure about 630,000 signatures might do the trick... If not, boycott the NBA? Set up a defense fund for the site?

[Plato]

I absolutely agree with Joe Fan. But on top of that, do you know any other fan site administrators who have been contacted? if you teamed up and went to the media with this, it would definitely make some people angry. this raises interesting (and relatively uncharted) issues in iterenet law. thus it is even possible that you, teamed up with other site admins could find some lobbyist representation...

[AntiSonic]

And by the way, can they REALLY not let you use the domain name because it's copyrighted?!?! I mean, that sounds kind of stupid... Didn't a bunch of guys get rich about three or four years ago by selling domain names to companies?

This is an atrocity.

[This message has been edited by AntiSonic (edited August 06, 1999).]

[Jovi]

Well, I know a few writers who I could tell the ridiculous story...

------------------
President, CEO and Commissioner of BBS Sim League

members.aol.com/bebulsky/sim (http://members.aol.com/bebulsky/sim)

[BoyhoodDream]

F the NBA. I would write an email to NBA.com but they always use the same reply to everybody. Please give me an email address and let me send them my opinion.

[DaDakota]

Give me an email address...send a copy of this to the Houston Chronicle/Usa Today and anyone else that will take it.

Do the newspapers get to do stories about the NBA? Do they use pictures of the players? Simply hide behind the FREEDOM of the PRESS statuate.

America, the land of the oppressed? that does not sound right.

You are PRESS clutch and have the rights of the press, give me an address and I will tell the NBA what I think

DADAKOTA

[Finalfantasy]

Can't believe it. Bulls*it.

Don't worry, those NBA idiots know nothing and can do nothing. If they continue this bs let's sue the heck out of them for harassment. Lhutz be the lawyer and I will go out protest. Then clutchcity will win and change its name to NBA.com.

[AntiSonic]

Here's the <A HREF="http://www.nba.com/Contact/00421037.html">link</A> to send your disgust to the deaf brass at NBA.COM.

For better effect, I suggest we try to contact networks like CBS or FOX, maybe CNN. I'd stay away from NBC, ESPN, and ABC because of their current affiliation with the NBA...

[Vince Carter]

Besides, they can't copyright "Clutch City". That name is owned by the city of Houston. I bet people from LA are behind this.

------------------

[Jenna]

I think "Clutch City" is copyrighted by Rocketball, Ltd. Afterall, the team in the city of Houston does have things such as the "Clutch City Foundation" and the "Clutch City Classic."

As for contacting people, maybe we could all try sending email to one person, to start? The more people they hear from, the more likely they are to look into something.

------------------
Jenna
Signed, sealed, delivered, I'm stuck as a you-know-who fan 'til 2003. Once I decide if this is a good thing or a bad thing, I'll let ya know!

[NugzFan]

fuk the nba. this is a good site and has only done good for them. what does stern make? 7 mill per?? fuk him.

[Nuggets4]

Clutch,

First of all, I am not a Rockets fan, but you guys normally have insight on the NBA and are intelligent fans, so I read here a lot. However, this is an issue I must speak up on.

I am a fellow webmaster of an NBA page, and I have talked with other webmasters that have had this problem. I am going to forward you some information that I saved since that incident.

Best of luck, and if there's anything that I can do to help, don't be hesitant to let me know.

------------------
Nuggets4
Rocky Mountain High - The Home for Nuggets Fans
http://nbalive.ga-sports.com/nuggets

[Vince Carter]

Oh yeah! Now we got the Nugget fans' support. People in Colorado are nice.

------------------

[Nuggets4]

This is messed up. Unfortunately, this isn't the first time I've heard about it. Clutch, I sent you two e-mails that I hope help you, and I also have passed your e-mail address and situation on to the New York Knicks Fan Page webmaster that had this same problem a while ago.

Nuggets4
http://www.nugspinnacle.com (http://www.nugspinnacle.com/)

[This message has been edited by Nuggets4 (edited August 06, 1999).]

[wgray]

MAN FIGHT THIS CLUTCH THAY ARE JUST mad that your site gets more hits then the "official houston rockets site" you and your staff put alot of work in this aand it shows as a high class site. i don't post alot put i hade to on this this is bs

RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE- "WE GOT TO TAKE THE POWER BACK"

[Obi-Won Olajuwon]

test

[Clutch]

I appreciate everyone's support and I've gotten a lot of mails/messages on the matter. We plan on fighting it. I can, to a point, see the NBA's point of view on some issues, but trying to claim the domain name clutchcity.net and saying we can not mention "Houston Rockets" or "Clutch City" is simply bogus.

I appreciate everyone's excellent ideas and backing -- please keep it coming. Hopefully we can take this to a higher power.

------------------
Clutch

Coming soon to clutchcity.net: HOUSTON ROCKET PORN!
www.clutchcity.net (http://www.clutchcity.net)

[Tha Play Maker]

this is a sad, sad day...

atleast cuttino will be happy...

[4CJ33]

Okay. So they want you to change your name. That may be a valid claim if clutch city is stated somewhere as being a registered trademark. And it is fair to request no links to the NBA site. But as far as I see it, if you enlist it as being taken from that particular site, it isn't as if you are stealing their property. You are actually bringing them visitors and more attention than they may normally get. You could also state at your opening page that this is a site made by fans for fans and anyone else who would like to visit, and this site is not owned (affiliated etc) by the actual Rockets organization and NBA. But the rest of it has to go. ... don't people have anything better to do with their time than worry about who is visiting what site, etc? This is the best site. The Rockets site doesnt even hardly ever get updated. And for the most part, it bites. This site has been enlightening and beneficial to all that have visited. It doesn't harm anyone in any way. I'll be happy to support ya', Clutch. Keep us updated on the situation.

[This message has been edited by 4CJ33 (edited August 06, 1999).]

[JuanValdez]

Even if clutchcity becomes mobleyscity, I'll still be here. But I will give even less money to the NBA than I do currently -- which will be hard because I don't give them any money. But, I'll find a way.

[Joe Joe]

I thought the chronicle came up with the term clutch city. I didn't know you could trademark someone elses words after they make them famous.

[4CJ33]

By the way, I love the thought of seeing some of those BIG BODY FORMS without their uniforms on. HMMM... http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/wink.gif

(LMAO! Houston Rocket Porn!)

------------------
(in song) 'cause I never...knew love like THIS before... :)

[Aruba77]

Is the NBA that stupid? I guess so. They obviously don't know good publicity, not to mention free publicity, when they see it. What a bunch of misguided fools....

[Vince Carter]

Clutch, I really don't think "Clutch City" is copyrighted. I say, go to City Hall, in the copyright section, and sign forms to oficially make "Clutch City" your (C).

------------------

[Vince Carter]

Clutch, I hope the porn remark was a joke http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/smile.gif!

------------------
Go Rockets! Um? Is "Rockets" also copyrighted? I meant, GO HOUSTON PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL TEAM!

[JuanValdez]

Does this move by the NBA have anything to do with the 'cybersquatting' bill before Congress. The bill, not yet law, bans use of domain names in bad faith. I just saw mention of it in CNN: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9908/06/cybersquatting.reut/

[ROCKETLOVER]

Now I absolutely have to post! I mean..waht the Fu@@ is up with this? This matter is only called jealousy. They're just mad a Clutch and Clutchcity suceeding. It's like 2pac once said, "In the ghetto if you saw a rose growing out of a crack in the concrete, it was a beautiful thing." What I mean by this is that ClutchCity was not popular 5 years ago,but now it has all the hits. All I can say is THEY CAN HATE US NOW,BUT WE WON'T STOP NOW!

Lets fight it and Support Clutch!

from: your number one Rocket believer

[Jenna]

This is just a little thing I found in the 98/99 Media Guide:

"The information contained in this publication was compiled by the Houston Rockets and is provided as a courtesy to our friends and the press and may be used only for personal or editorial purposes. Any commercial use of this information is prohibited without the prior written consent of the Houston Rockets.

All NBA and team insignia depicted in this publication are the property of NBA Properites, Inc. and the respective teams and may not be reproduced for commercial purposes without the prior written consent of NBA Properties, Inc."

Websters dictionary defines commercial as (this is the one most pertaining to this subject): a) made, done or operating primarily for profit b) designed to have wide popular appeal.

Now, as we all know, Clutch isn't making money on this site, therefore, there goes the profit argument. However, the second one concerning wide popular appeal could be sticky....

Also, the team lists their address as being in "Clutch City, Texas," which pretty much leads me to believe Rocketball, Ltd. has the copywright/trademark.
------------------
Jenna
Signed, sealed, delivered, I'm stuck as a you-know-who fan 'til 2003. Once I decide if this is a good thing or a bad thing, I'll let ya know!


[This message has been edited by Jenna (edited August 06, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Jenna (edited August 06, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Jenna (edited August 06, 1999).]

[SirCharlesFan]

I'm going to do everything I can do to help clutchcity.net out! I plan on writing my local newspaper about this, and voicing my opinions to the NBA, and other top basketball officials via email. This kind of stuff turns people away from professional sports. The NBA should be glad you do a site like this, and dont have any advertising banners off of it. As far as I can see, you dont make money from this site, so why does the NBA care!?

------------------
Sir Charles is DA MAN.

[AntiSonic]

Yeah, if anything, Clutch is losing money for running the site.

1) The servers, domain, BBS, resources, writers, etc. cost money.

2) There are no banners on this site, thus no income and certainly no profits are made off ofthe Houston Rockets and the NBA.

------------------
FIGHT THE SYSTEM-SAVE CLUTCH CITY!

[Big Dogzz]

I'm also in, FIGHT THE POWER CLUTCH.

[carlos]

I would be more than happy to write any letter(s) needed or contribute $$ to support your efforts against the NBA suits. What a bunch of crap. If anything this site promotes the NBA and is free publicity for them.

[Rob in Spring]

Clutch,

Why don't you get in contact with Channel 11 (KHOU-TV)in Houston. They know about the site and have publicized it. Hopefully, they can be a good ally.

Rob

P.S. Wonder if the NBA got mad after the Maloney story?

[DocRiverPhoenixSunScreen@]

Docter Robert - LOL!

I just have one suggestion, and that is to make just as much noise for this injustice as we did when the Hakeem rumours leaked out.

Only problem is, the NBA has a lot less class than the Houston Rockets, and they could care less about the Houston fans. But the day the NBA tries to shut down a Laker fan site, whoo, that will be the day Pig Miller appears on the cover of GQ.

[RKMAN]

Yeah Doc!

Boo hoo. No Lakers, no precious money from NBC. Boo Hoo. Can't touch the Fakers.

------------------
RKMAN
President of "The Matt Maloney & Rudy T. Haters Club."

[Jeff]

Clutch:

Recently, a precedent was set in this type of case when a man registered the domain names of several major corporations. Despite the trademark, the gentleman won a lawsuit filed by several of the corporations.

The judge ruled that domain names do not fall under current provisions of US trademark or copyright enfringement laws and that, if the company wanted the names, they would have to pay him fair market value for them.

[Will]

Clutch --

1. Can you send me a copy of the letter? I'd like to see how much of a form letter it is. My suspicion, bolstered by what Nuggets4 said, is that they're trying to establish some kind of policy with respect to all fan sites, and you just happen to be on the list. Translation: They're not going to seriously go after you.

2. Their claim to own the phrase "Clutch City" is beyond ludicrous. It's the equivalent of Hakeem Olajuwon suing Dream.com or Charles Barkley suing Chuckwagon.com. The words came first. The pricks in suits came later.

3. The NBA is big. We fan sites are small, but there are thousands of us. The way to use this as an advantage is to make the NBA do as much work as possible on each case. My advice is to send them back a very polite letter expressing your profound respect for all legal requirements in this area and requesting specific documentation for each of their claims. If you don't get another letter back, proceed as if they'd said nothing. If you do get a letter back, send them another one pointing out the flaws in what they sent you and asking for more documentation. And so on. They've got bigger fish to fry. Eventually they'll get tired. (I'm happy to help draft these letters if you want help and are concerned about spending too much of your time on it.)

4. The other way to approach this is to treat it as a publicity opportunity. The #1 reason why it's stupid for the NBA to attack non-NBA fan sites is that the attack gives these sites publicity. clutchcity.net can get way more exposure from this one attack than from anything else the site has done. I would think that the most likely publication to pick up this story is the Houston Press. If you can get it into the Chronicle, so much the better, but I'd bet they're too cowardly.

5. If you just want to embarrass the NBA, rather than get publicity specifically for clutchcity.net, the best thing would be to collect info from other fan site administrators (e.g. Nuggets4) so you have enough material for a national story about the NBA (and maybe the NFL) trying to monopolize sports talk on the Internet. The political peg for this story is all the taxpayer money being poured into arenas for NBA teams. Somebody should ask the mayor why the citizens of Houston are being asked to subsidize the Rockets while the NBA is claiming to own the phrase "Clutch City" and is threatening these same citizens with legal action for gathering at fan sites to talk about the city's team.

The bottom line, Clutch, is that you are not alone. If the NBA persists in this idiocy, we will make them hurt until they see that it's not worth their while. And whenever they decide they've had enough, we'll let them go.

[Turbo]

Well for the new posters, this site wasn't always called "clutchcity.net" it used to be just a (correct me if I am wrong) college student's fan page with a really, really long address. Now, when the site did change to clutchcity.net, I don't believe that the term Clutch City had yet been copyrighted (if in fact that term is copywrited) - seeing as how it was in the middle of the 96-97 season.

As Jenna suggested, I could see why the NBA might be disgruntled if Clutch & Crew were raking in the dough off of this site, but they haven't made a dime. Another thing that amazes me is that there have been instances where NBA players themselves have been suspected of visiting this site - they never had a problem with it. I think that it would be a great travisty if Clutch City, the site we all know and love, would have to be shut down or moved. I encourage each and every one of us, whether Rocket fans or not, who reads this message do everything in their power to try and stop the "Big Green Machine" a.k.a. the NBA, from destroying something so dear to us.

When Clutch City.com gets to 1 million hits I want it to be as Clutch City.com and not as some other url that has nothing to do with the site we know. Let's get motivated and try and stop this from happening.

-Turbo

---------------------
The NBA is trying to bring back fans after the lockout and now they are doing this - pitiful.

[Jeff]

Will's ideas are terrific! He is exactly right with regards to the name as well. I did a little further research and, well, go to www.whitehouse.com (http://www.whitehouse.com) to get my point.

The proprietors of that site took the name when the government conveniently forgot to register the .com version of their .gov site. As a result, instead of all the gradeschool kids, separatist freaks and political hangers-on getting a glimpse inside the famous Pennsylvania Avenue address, they get a trip down a completely different highway!

They won their battles with the US GOVERNEMENT, so I assume the NBA is in over its head. I'm sure they'd love to scare you out of the domain name, but it ain't that simple.

[rocketsfan34]

Exactly which NBA players have come to this site before? One crazy idea is since i know some you guys have connections to nba players make them back up the site. In other words, ask for backup. If NBA players start defending the site saying its a NON-PROFIT fan page the NBA would never go against their own marquee players.

Still i think you should go the publicity way. It's the best. You get publicity and become famous. Who knows, maybe one day nba.com will be forced to make clutchcity.net the official site of the Rockets becuase of the many hits.

Anyways, Clutch you have all our support in keeping this site up. We will win.

[Da Man]

If the NBA has no legal grounds over the site, I think you should start making some money off this site. It seems to me that the site gets huge volumes of traffic. Stick it to the NBA and make some dough for yourself Clutch. You deserver suitable compensation for this wonderful site. Thanks for providing a wonderful service to us Rockets' fans. We are forever indebted to your brilliance.

[Clutch]

...and may succeed. We got the dreaded 3-page lawyer letter that the NBA/NBA Properties, Inc. has become so famous for. Some 2 years ago they used militant techniques to shut down a bunch of sites, then backed off after realizing it wasn't good for PR.

Now apparently they are back at it. They say we can keep doing the site, but we must change (get this):

- No pictures of any players in uniform.
- No audio links.
- No links to NBA.com.
- No wallpaper graphics.
- Despite the clear disclaimer, they say we promote sponsorship and approval by the Rockets and the NBA and mislead the public into being the official site.

and the kicker...

- The words (that's right -- words) "Clutch City" or "Houston Rockets" can't be used. Both are "registered trademarks". The domain name clutchcity.net must be forfeited -- can not be used because it is a registered trademark.

This is called: You get more hits than us. Please stop.

If the Rockets' official site had information and links that weren't interviews with Matt Bullard's mom, I wouldn't invest time into doing this. What the Rockets fail to realize is clutchcity.net, and any other page dedicated to a sports team, is one of the best things that can happen to them. It's free PR run by crazy dedicated fans -- and no one is profiting off of it.

As a result, the changes we've decided to make are:

The Rockets will now be referred to as the "Mobleys". Anyone who refers to the Rockets as the "Rockets" will be beaten, stripped, dipped in barbecue sauce and thrown into a cage with Stanley Roberts.

clutchcity.net will change to mobleysonline.com. If you type in clutchcity.net it will redirect you to ahmad-rashad-can-kiss-my-ass.com.

On mobleysonline.com there will be no pictures of the Rockets with clothes on.

This would please the NBA.

Oh, I love this game!

------------------
Clutch

Coming soon to clutchcity.net: HOUSTON ROCKET PORN!
www.clutchcity.net (http://www.clutchcity.net)

[rocketsfan34]

Why don't nba.com just hire you to do their site? Make clutchcity.net the offical site of the Rockets. I mean finally a official site worth seeing.

[Souprocket]

how about choke city did they register that one too. you know, just in case!

[Lynus302]

What a bunch of BS.

------------------
"Hey Kenny, you gonna finish that?." --Stanley Roberts

[Elie#17]

Clutch,

Long time no post here, for me...but I definitely wanted to encourage you to fight this matter. (even though it's been said before a hundred times already.)

I'm seriously wondering what beef does the NBA have about this site? They've got their own site..it's called. "nba.com" You've got your site "clutchcity.net" Your site is fan based, w/ bbs, chat, etc. Their's is a boring-ass piece of crap, which might be official, but who the hell wants to go there for the text info you already caught on espn tv? All of you are right when you suggest that NBA.com's beef is that they're jealous. Jealous that they don't put enough effort into making their pages interesting. Congrats to you clutch, because you do.

-elie17

[SpaceCity]

Hang in there man.

<center>http://www.t1.com/lon/rockets/mytake/images/cc99.gif</center>

[DREAMer]

Here's a list of sports and news related sources I've emailed. I'm not saying any of you should do the same......

gerald@softscience.com
lancez@ev1.net
hci@chron.com
supertalk@houstonradio.com
sports@kprc.com
sportscomments@foxsports.com
feedback@houstonpress.com
mailbox@krbe.com

Here's a list of web sites with 'feedback' on them. Again, I'm not promoting all of us writing them....

<A HREF="http://www.khou.com/prd1/now/now1_frameset?p_url_bot=feedback%3Fp%5Fwho%3DKHOU]http://www.khou.com/prd1/now/now1_frameset?p_url_bot=feedback%3Fp%5Fwho%3DKHOU[/URL" TARGET=_blank>
[URL=http://www.khtv.com/feedback/feedback.htm]http://www.khtv.com/feedback/feedback.htm</A>

http://www.ktrh.com/

-------------------

I hate the NBA organization

[This message has been edited by DREAMer (edited August 07, 1999).]

[Nuggets4]

Will, if you'd like, I could send you copies of the two e-mails also. If you want to see them, just drop me a line. thejimmer@hotmail.com

------------------
Nuggets4
The Pinnacle - Rising to the Top With the Denver Nuggets
http://www.nugspinnacle.com

[Finalfantasy]

Needs Navy Seal snipers? Email me.

[Nuggets4]

Can you tell I've researched this before? I'm ready for them if they try it with me. Anyway, check out <a href="http://www.sensfans.com/">SensFans.com</a>. It's an Ottawa Senators fan page that was shut down by the NHL.

------------------
Nuggets4
The Pinnacle - Rising to the Top With the Denver Nuggets
http://www.nugspinnacle.com

[Christopher]

Clutch mate I wish you all the best.You have provided us Rockets fans with THE BEST basketball site on the net.
Im with eveyone else when it comes to making this public.I reckon the TV and Radio stations would have a field day with this http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/smile.gif

Two points I want to make.
1.The NBA has seen this site,monitored it and is not happy with what it see's.This is a site for REAL basketball fans.We have opinions and we aint LA/Chicago/NY fans.
2.You make no money from this site.This is a hobby.You promote the NBA and the Rockets.....Geez its a nice way for the NBA to say thanks.

If the unlikly happens I say register the address www.NBACANKISSMYASS.com. (http://www.NBACANKISSMYASS.com.)
I bet this wouldnt happen if this was a Comets site.

I wish I could help you with this but there isnt much I can do here from Australia.I sugest sending messages to as many TV stations as possible.Id also contact the Rockets PR and see what they have to say.Im sure they wouldnt like any bad publicity.

Clutch I wish you all the best and if worse comes to worse you can move the site and we'll all move with it!
GoodLuck http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/smile.gif
Christopher

P.S.Updates on this situation on the main page would be great.eg:TV/radio reports http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/smile.gif



------------------
Your Starting Power Forward for the Clutch City Allstars

[Lord Tree]

I would just like everyone to know that I now own the copyright to words such as "the", "a", "an", all pronouns (including, but not limited to: "I", "he", "she", "it"), prepositions (including, but not limited to: "to", "under", "beyond"), and the word "thisisaloadofbull****e." I would like everyone to immediately desist in the use of the words, because it violates my God-given right to be a complete and utter wanker. Thank you for your time.

Lord Tree
We shouldn't let such archaic and asinine concepts such as freedom of expression or freedom of information stop my ability to bully around people with my team of insanely priced lawyers.

[Joe Fan]

The law in this area is complex. Indeed, in the legal arena, there are lawyers who specialize in and do nothing but trademark and copyright work.

I doubt any of us can untwist all the potential issues upon a cursory review.

Existing statutes do not deal with issue presented by the Internet very well. this is one reason the money types, like the sports leagues, are lobbying hard in DC.

For example, the NFL is pushing hard for the Senate to approve a treaty that would effectively let them copyright "facts." In other words, writers, other media outlets, newspapers, etc. would have to pay to say "Earl Campbell rushed for 199 yards." Thats what they are hoping for in the ever lasting quest to squeeze out every nickle. Fortunately, the Supremes has said facts are not subject to copyright protection.

In any event, it is a sticky area.

One thing i do know is you don't want to be in their sights. They have way too many resources.

This is not legal advice, more along the lines of just plain common sense but i would try and generate some publicity and then reach a quiet deal with them.

You dont want to be a test case. Even if you won, you might come home from the war quite bloody.

[Rocketincleveland]

Here is suggestion for fan support.
If they shut down the site, all the clutchcity.net fans buy regular white T-shirts and hand write the site's address on it ( cant print because of copy right laws) and show up to the national games. that whould bring enough publicity.
This is the only site that people from out site of Houston get decent info about the Mobleys.


------------------
HAKEEM... the best ever!

[Almu]

Damn, I missed all this?

Well, I am pretty sure that I am pretty old around here. And after 3 years, I am still addicted to this site as ever.

If Clutch has to get a lawyer for his defense, then I am willing to put 100 bucks to the cause. And if I get my raise in December, I am willing to put up 200. And I think that if you love this site as much as I do, you would help if it comes to that. I say, raise enough money to hire Johnny Cochran himself if we have to.

Clutch, let me know what I can do for you. I work at the biggest ad agency in the world and have alot of good pull with the lawyers there. If you have any questions you might want to know in reference to marketing laws or all that crap that the NBA is saying you can't do because of merchandising, let me know.

And guys, if Clutch needs the money, I say we pitch in. Cuz the man aint making nothing doing this here.

Clutch: Alex_Muniz@yr.com. Let me know what I can do for you.

------------------
I need a source. Any source. Good or bad. But I need one.

[jthompso]

Clutch
You can count me in from Tulsa ,Oklahoma

ROCKETS 4-LIFE

[BlastOff]

Ditto, Almu! Where do we send the money?

------------------
...WE'LL BE BAH-K!!!

[RKMAN]

Here's how to personally contact the NBA:

Click Here: http://www.checkdomain.com/cgi-bin/checkdomain.pl?domain=www.nba.com

------------------
RKMAN
President of "The Matt Maloney & Rudy T. Haters Club."

[RKMAN]

Write them a letter here:

National Basketball Association
c/o Television and New Media Ventures
645 5th Ave., 10th Floor
New York, NY 10022
United States of America

------------------
RKMAN
President of "The Matt Maloney & Rudy T. Haters Club."

[Rocket Fan]

we are with you clutch. this is all true right? i mean this isn't a joke like the one you pulled on april fools. well anyways i e-mailed lance zerlain since he is a fan of the site maybe he can help

[Will]

I told my wife what's going on here, and her immediate guess is that the letter is a fraud intended to trick Clutch into shutting down the site -- perpetrated by Clutch's wife.

[Will]

I'm not saying Clutch should challenge the NBA and make himself a legal test case. I'm saying the legal burden is on the NBA to make a case against Clutch. And in the meantime, Clutch is not in jail or obliged to post bail. So my advice is to politely (and with a minimum of effort on Clutch's part) drag out an exchange of letters -- say, every two months -- asking the NBA for documentation of its most far-fetched claims, starting with ownership of the phrase "Clutch City." This is how a guerrilla army beats a superpower. It's our terrain, and it's their money bleeding out with every billable hour. Make it hurt.

My $50 check to the Clutch Legal Defense Fund goes in the mail Monday. And if Clutch ends up not needing a legal defense, the check is transferrable to the clutchcity.net Foundation, chartered as of today to maintain the site on a nonprofit basis so that Clutch can give the NBA what it sincerely deserves: the finger.

[laughinj]

Well, if its a fight they want,
It's a fight they'll get.
Just tell me where
I can send my check.

[SamCassell]

The things I miss while I am away on vacation! Terrible. No way are we gonna let them shut this site down without a fight!

Clutch, I'm not a practicing lawyer (yet!) but I have finished 2 years of law school and would like to help in whatever way possible. I'll do some research at work tomorrow and see what sort of precedents we can come up with. The case mentioned by Jeff sounds like a good place to start.

[Mike]

Im in where do I send the check to support the cause?

Also everyone please keep posting email addresses to email our opinions to. Im sure if they get enough letters, they will have to comment and create more publicity and recognize the true fan support for this site.



------------------
Its not how hard you push along the way, its having something left in you to finish. IS IT IN YOU?

[Ace]

I still can't believe that Clutch City might not exist in the near future. It's been a pretty big part of my "Internet Life."
Anyway, Clutch, hopefully everything will turn out fine.
Do you have an update on the situation? Has anyone heard your story? Who has been willing to help?

[bacteria]

Yea clutch. I liked this site lots...

[Azim da Dream]

Well, since I write about 78 posts too late, all the good suggestions are taken up! BUt I share everyone's sentiments towards this disgraceful and classless tactic by the NBA (National Bull**** Association)

Clutch, obviously you can't ignore the situation, and despite the NBA's power they still don't have a real case here. Add into the fact that individuals and small companies are starting to have their way with the big corporations as of late, take into account the public support and it really gives the league no merit.

I will join the cause to fight this injustice and do anything in my power to battle in the name of Clutchcity.

I've sent some emails to some of the addresses y'all listed and please keep us updated if there is any progress Clutch. You, no we, will win the battle. (damn, that was a little too corny!)

Azim da Dream

------------------
"Realize if you have time to whine and complain about something, you have time to do something about it."



[This message has been edited by Azim da Dream (edited August 08, 1999).]

[Clutch]

Thanks to everyone for the support and thank you Will and the others for wanting to send money, but please don't send any money. I really, really, really do appreciate it, but right now I'm not sure if we're going to need it and I don't want to do this for the money. I just enjoy doing it when I can. I will let you guys know though down the road if it's going to be required in some sort of "legal fund". http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/smile.gif

I've gotten a lot of advice and offers for help, and this hasn't gone up on the page yet either, so I feel good about it.

Here are copies of the letters. They were sent to Frank Swindle at Digital Media. Since I couldn't reach him last night to get permission to post them, I blacked out his address and the phone numbers to the NBA offices. I'm not sure how we should attack this yet so don't want any "loose cannons" calling their office... yet.

<div align="center">
<table cellpadding="8" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="300">
<TR>
<TD width="100" valign="top"><a href="http://www.clutchcity.net/nba_letter/letter1a.jpg"><div align="center"><img src="http://www.clutchcity.net/nba_letter/letter1a_thumb.jpg" border="0"></div></a></TD>
<TD width="100" valign="top"><a href="http://www.clutchcity.net/nba_letter/letter1b.jpg"><div align="center"><img src="http://www.clutchcity.net/nba_letter/letter1b_thumb.jpg" border="0"></div></a></TD>
<TD width="100" valign="top"><a href="http://www.clutchcity.net/nba_letter/letter1c.jpg"><div align="center"><img src="http://www.clutchcity.net/nba_letter/letter1c_thumb.jpg" border="0"></div></a></TD>
</TR>
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<BR CLEAR="ALL">

Few notes from the letter:

They never say we must shut down the site. But they are trying to cripple it severely, primarily with the domain name issue. The fact they try to get us to change the domain name clutchcity.net since they have "Clutch City" as a registered trademark is just stupid. I think this here is going to be the sticking point -- it certainly is the part I am the most upset about.

Just as stupid -- "Clutch City uses the name and registered trademark of the Houston Rockets" -- they mean the words?

I can understand the audio, even though it's silly. Also the "framed" links to nba.com ("unauthorized links") ... I always use non-frames so I hardly ever pay attention to it.

This is an <a href="http://www.builder.com/Business/Law/?tag=st.cn.sr1.dir.">excellent source for web laws concerning copyrights, trademarks, etc</A>. It gives a lot of example cases/lawsuits that have gone on lately.

All in all I just think the NBA is cutting off their own nose with this one. I'll keep everyone posted on the issue, but I'm waiting to see what we do before putting this all over the main page.

Thanks again for everyone's help.

------------------
Clutch

Coming soon to clutchcity.net...
HOUSTON ROCKET PORN!
www.clutchcity.net (http://www.clutchcity.net)

[Redglare]

Amazing. I can't believe the league would spend their time pursuing this...has it really been THAT long since the lockout???

However, I can't believe that mass emails to the nba or other authorities would be helpful at this point. Personally, I'll take the lead from Clutch...if he wants to raise a stink, I'll do it. But for now, I'll just voice my support for the site, and let them determine what the next course of action should be.

[BrianKagy]

Geez. I'm supremely flattered to be associated with something of the level of quality and professionalism that it could be mistaken for the official site.

Why do I doubt that Krusty Garza received a similar letter...?

However, I'm insulted-- no one's gonna mistake clutchcity.net for that piece of **** NBA.com site.

------------------
"All there really is, virtue and vice-- well it's been a nice life"

TBC

[RocketMan Tex]

Just another example of the man trying to keep the brother down.

Kill whitey, er, I mean David Stern!!!!

------------------
HOW SWEET IT WAS (AND COULD BE AGAIN)!!!!!!!!!!

[RKMAN]

Hi Clutch,

I know this is a serious topic and all but, don't you think you should close the thread? I mean, it has nothing to do with this forum. Maybe you should move it to BBS Hangout. I know if I or anyone else started a topic that did not belong in this forum, it would be closed or removed. Just my opinion. GO CC Y2K!

------------------
RKMAN
President of "The Matt Maloney & Rudy T. Haters Club."

[Clutch]

RKMAN --

Technically you're right, but if this matter isn't resolved, it won't be this thread that will be closed. It will be the whole forum.

------------------
Clutch

Coming soon to clutchcity.net...
HOUSTON ROCKET PORN!
www.clutchcity.net (http://www.clutchcity.net)

[Nuggets4]

Clutch,

I talked to a lawyer yesterday about NBAP, Inc.. Basically, he said the NBA has no case. They're just trying to exploit you because they know you're a die-hard fan. Basically, they're trying to scare you into giving up.

Keep with it. You've got a lot of people behind you.

------------------
Nuggets4
The Pinnacle - Rising to the Top With the Denver Nuggets
http://www.nugspinnacle.com

[raZi]

NBA.com deserves what its getting for being so lazy by not providing us(the fans) what we want and deserve. The geeks at nba.com are so concerned with profit, that they have completely alienated the average knowledgable fan. the cobwebs are mounting at the nba's rockets page, but instead of looking at what they're doing wrong, they seem to have a knack of attacking the people who are doing it right.
Unfortunately, on every aspect the nba has degraded itself into nothing more than a business and for diehard fans like me who enjoy the game in its purest form, its quite a disgrace.

We need more people like clutch who has the passion and the spirit to bring us what we sorely need - An extensive houston rockets (basketball in general) info medium w/out any aspect of greed, power and money to contaminate its true purpose.

Everytime I go on-line I make sure and visit this site because it simply is the best.
I love Hakeem and the rockets and this site gives me everything I want and need-and then some.

Clutch: respect and love for your efforts, I'm behind you all the way...

raZi

[tod the bod]

Just a thought. There are a ton of lawyers here. Some of us work for large firms that let their associates do pro-bono work (i.e. work for free). I do not know much about trademark law, but it would seem to me that some kind of "fair use" is allowable without being a trademark infringement. It seems to me that maybe clutch city should bring a declaratory judgment action against the NBA to have the court determine that there is no trademark infringement.

At the very least, a well-publicized lawsuit against the NBA would embarass the NBA so much that they might drop all plans against web-sites such as Clutch City.

[Monsieur]

If the NBA is boohooing about copyright protection laws, I think they need to check some of their own stuff out. A while back, they interviewed players around the league about what music they listened to. The players gave the names. I am sure the publishers might not appreciate that. Another example is what the Rockets page said Michael Dickerson (oops, said another copyrighted word. Sue me.) plays the Playstation. I don't see a TradeMark sign next to it in respect of Sony. I think it's all a bunch of malarky. Fight it hard, Clutch. Love the site.

[Kathy]

Please don't let them get away with shutting down this website. It's the BEST on the web! You do a great job, Clutch! Not like the boring nba.com. The NBA should not be alienating fans so soon after the lock-out.

[Almu]

I was just thinking about something...

Shouldn't EJ be on this thread somewhere? I mean, if anything falls under "conspiracy", its this.

EJ, where are you?

------------------
I need a source. Any source. Good or bad. But I need one.

[YODA]

Hey Nuggets fan...your nuggets site is just like Clutch;s site...owell

[BeamUsUpScottie^^^33]

DAmn, the things ya miss when you don't visit this site in a while....the NBA's bull**** threats...Dream being robbed... that's how great this place is http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/smile.gif.

Best of luck Clutch; you know we'll be there for ya if in any way possible, financial assistance included.

Let's wait and see if the NBA is bored enough this offseason to make the next move...

[Azim da Dream]

Man, and we thought the Rockets were having a slow off-season! You know when the NBA bullies well-intentioned, fan-friendly sites and trademarks player photos and city nicknames, that it has way too much time on its hands!

I think all that time they were endorsing the Michael Jordan Show, they were kept busy, now there is nothing left for them to do.

Azim da Dream

------------------
"Realize if you have time to whine and complain about something, you have time to do something about it."

[BrianKagy]

EJ doesn't post here anymore, Almu. I think he'd probably like to. But he doesn't.

[Almu]

Gracias, BK. Too bad.

------------------
I need a source. Any source. Good or bad. But I need one.

[popeye]

I followed a case about four years ago, about a Scottish Bed and Breakfast owner who had an attached coffee shop.The name of the coffee shop was McDonald's.The owner/lady's real name was McDonald.

McDonald's Inc.(fast food franchise),wrote the owner a number of letters attempting to persuade them to change their name.Eventually big, bad McD's threatened severe penalties and an expensive lawsuit.

It caused such an uproar in the press that although the McD Inc. won the right of infringement(go figure why) ... their sales in Scotland plummeted. The Coffee shop owner had to change the name of her coffee shop only, not her Bed and Breakfast. So she called it "The Little Shop That Can't Be Bullied By McDonald's Lawyers"(loosely translated) in Gaelic with a translation provided on the coffee shop's menu.

The lady's sales rose by the tenfold.She now has several franchises of her own throughout Scotland.

Sometimes the only thing that distinguishes a winner from a loser in any given battle,is the number of scars a winner is willing to endure before he prevails.

The fight has just begun and we are all ready to accept some battle scars. Bring on the bullies. http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

[RKMAN]

Clutch, what's the latest on this pathetic "law-suit?"

------------------
RKMAN
"We'll give you all our talent, for all your scrubs!"
-Magic GM

[Ziggy]

If clutchcity.net goes down Im going to kill the people that shut it down and go crazy trying to get rockets info at bskball.com ... Armageddon is upon us and I will fight to the bitter end . This has made me more bitter and cynical . Ill probably be over it when I see a naked Maloney though !!!! woo hoo . Just kidding man .

[Pippen33]

I would like to say im glad that im the 100 post in this topic.

Its a honor for me. Thank you

[Doctor Robert]

Hate to steal the limelight, but I'm #100 now.

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank my family, God, my friends .........

[Pippen33]

How are you number 100?

I got 100 first!

[Fox]

Clutch,
I agree, please fight this! I live way away from Houston, and you are my only link to the team that is up-to-date on anything going on.
<u><marquee>I NEED THIS STIE!!!</marquee></u>

[thacabbage]

How the f* did you do THAT?!!

[popeye]

Clutch:

As a medical investigator I have had to deal with more than my share of lawyers and disgruntled power brokers.A couple of suggestions,if I may be so bold:

1. Calling their bluff is easy and not entirely without merit.Answer their letters with adamant but polite refusal(with the help of a lawyer of course).

2. As a second level of defense, attempt a compromise,only if it leads to you retaining full rights to the site's name.Seperat agreements for individual sites are not unheard of,and usually have several clauses outlining what you cannot do,like promote direct sales,etc... .But then,you never were in it for the money anyway.

3. Last resort,if they have put you against the wall,or have you days away from a federal jurisdiction hearing, contact the Rockets and ask for "common usage" of their protected franchise rights to use NBA sanctioned trademarks. Each NBA team is allowed to use them in promotion and advertising.They can give you the Rockets Org. sanction by proxy,and you still control and have free rein to operate the site.

4. A personal phone call to Les Alexander would be helpful.Maybe before all this gets tangled up in litigation and boardroom bulls**t a call can be made.

Cheers and good luck.

Money,letter writting campaigns,sweat and support from a lot of people is available,just for the asking.

[IROC it]

Well... I guess everyone else has said all the good stuff already.

But -
1. As far as "copyright laws" go, they have no case. If you, and only one person could have, registered the domain name with the interNIC people, then you "own" the domain name. As long as you pay the dues to the interNIC you own the "clutchcity.net" name. (BTW - if you haven't already, I suggest registering the .net and .org soon!)

2. George Lucas wants all the STARWARS related names, but whichever names or different spellings of some of the names he doesn't already own, he has to buy them for the asking price... now he's a gazzillionaire, but he didn't pursue all of the names legally, because legally he has no case either... such is the case with the NBA.

3. If I was the first to register the name corvette.com, and I wasn't chevrolet, then Corvette.com would be mine legally because it's a sort of "first come first serve" system.

4. Don't worry, this'll blow over... and if not, I'd be happy to fill in the Dallas news media face to face... Also my Dad has done work with KHOU Channel 11 in Houston before, and I'm sure he'd help.

5. Like it's been said, "Why would the NBA want to shut down free publicity?" POSITIVE PUBLICITY??? Do they really want that much more negative publicity on their backs?? Do they want a "freedom of speech" fight? Even the 2 Live Crew is still around ya know, and we're only talking sports!!! "Banned In The USA" ring a bell?

6. If it's funds, or a petition signature, or picketing an office that this site needs... COUNT ME IN!!!

Clutch, You've done nothing but promote the love of the game that is the NBA... and if we need to get an interview with Hakeem, or even Les for that matter... let's do what we must...

I will help in every way possible!!

-IROC it

-----------------
Power to the fans!!!
Hey NBA, Hey Stern... without the fans, and the fan sites, and the fans on talk shows keeping the league in front of the people, you got nothin' but a bunch of millionaires being paid by billionaires to play a game that cost nothing at the playground except some heart, determination, sweat, and a $6.00 basketball from a cheap department store. Wake up!!

[popeye]

Rock On IROC! Great advice.

[Junkyard Dog]

IROC IT You have always given us good responses to certain posts! Keep it Up! And as for you Clutch I'm with you 100%. Maybe we need an enema, but I know for sure the NBA needs an enema!

------------------
-Junkyard Dog
"Maybe we need an enema"
- Othella Harrington

[laughinj]

In Thursday's WSJ Marketplace section, there is a article about a company called amazonfembks.com trying to sue amazon.com for trademark rights. The situation in not identical to yours, but should prove an interesting story to follow.

[Moses]

Hang in there Clutch. I'm behind you all the way!

------------------
Moses begat Sampson, Sampson begat Hakeem, And Hakeem led us to the promised land

[coolweather]

I appreciate everyone's support and I've gotten a lot of mails/messages on the matter. We plan on fighting it. I can, to a point, see the NBA's point of view on some issues, but trying to claim the domain name clutchcity.net and saying we can not mention "Houston Rockets" or "Clutch City" is simply bogus.

I appreciate everyone's excellent ideas and backing -- please keep it coming. Hopefully we can take this to a higher power.

------------------
Clutch

Coming soon to clutchcity.net: HOUSTON ROCKET PORN!
www.clutchcity.net (http://www.clutchcity.net)

Any updates on rocket porn?

[AroundTheWorld]

Any updates on rocket porn?

Dude, do not bump an old thread like that.

[alexdapooh]

THEY BETTER not take off the best site in the NBA.. i will officially hate the NBA forever...

[Ace]

Man, you scared me. Took me a second to realise it's not ClutchCity.net these days. :mad: