Scottie Pippen demands to be traded [Archive]

3pointer

08-11-1999, 10:43 PM

I don't know what to say I am totally astonished!!!!!!!! but if it is true lets look at it this way it might turn out for the best . If Phil wants Scottie so bad give us Kobe and whom else would satisfy the salary requirements.
The thing that pisses me off is the fact that Pippen probably knew about this a little wile ago and did not let the rockets organization know so we could have made some major movements during the off season now most of the players that we could have had that are good ones are now signed or about to sign with another team..... That guy is a sell out... I want him out!!!!!!
if I am wrong I accept responsability for my harsh words but if right then Damn him! grrrrrr!!

thacabbage

08-11-1999, 10:46 PM

this could actually be a really a great thing.....there is nothing better in the NBA nowadays than a star that wants out....if we could somehow organize a three way to acquire a point guard through pippen, we could guarantee shandon anderson the starting small forward spot.

Poor Rudy, i feel really bad for this guy right now....we are shocked, i wonder what this guy is going through right now...trade scottie, he isnt a Houston Rocket.

Pole

08-11-1999, 10:58 PM

There's another good thing that might come out of this. All of the "bandwagon hop like nutty's" might just hop on over to some Laker BBS--if there is such a thing. You really can't be "seen" over the internet, so they may not have it in LA.

X-PAC

08-11-1999, 11:03 PM

This is the perfect chance to take advantage of these developments by getting younger.Mr. Pippen I believe owes Charles an apology because Barkley took an exception so Pippen could sign.I am very happy that Barkley will get his payoff.This just makes me dislike the Lakers even more.

#1 LAKER AND PIPPEN HATER!

Not Chaney

08-11-1999, 11:06 PM

That sucks. I just returned tonight(wed.) from a vacation in LA and there was nothing said about it. USA Today (tues.) had a piece written about Pippen. (He was househunting in LA etc.) Nothing in the LA Times.
The Lakers were really after Lorenzen Wright and that was the hot topic. Charles "steroid rage" Oakley was also mentioned. Some of the talk about the Lakers was that Shaq wants the ball, Kobe wants the ball, Glen Rice needs at least fifteen shots per game to be involved in the offense.... Glen Rice plays no D. Say it ain't so PIP!

Jeff

08-11-1999, 11:11 PM

Ok, here's a trade that would work under the salary cap and could provide for most of the needs of all teams involved.

Houston sends Scottie Pippen to LA.
LA sends Rice and Fisher to Seattle.
Seattle sends Payton to Houston.
LA sends Horry to Houston.

Salaries:

Pippen - $14 million
Rice/Fisher/Horry - $13 million
Payton - $11 million

Seattle may have to add a minimum salary player to make it fit, but it is close enough.

From a team standpoint, it fits.

Seattle gets a small forward to replace Detlef and a PG to replace Payton who is disgruntled in Seattle even if he did just manage to get his buddy Mad Max there.

LA gets the guy they want. Pippen can handle some of the point guard duties. Another minor deal including someone like Maloney could potentially happen.

Houston gets a solid defensive, athletic small forward/power forward in Horry and the point guard everybody is crying for.

Comments?

Pole

08-11-1999, 11:12 PM

You know guys--Charles Barkley is NOT going to want to stay this year if Scottie leaves. Chuck doesn't dislike Houston, but he wants a ring more than anything.

Doctor Robert

08-11-1999, 11:12 PM

I'm fine with Scottie being traded to LA. I'm sure that the Clippers will love having him.

Azim da Dream

08-11-1999, 11:25 PM

Although I would love for Scottie to stay, this doesn't seeem all that bad, especially if we can land Shandon Anderson and if Jeff's Payton plan pans out.

But, it would definately not be worth it if the Barkley decides to retire after Pip leaves. If Payton somehow comes, obviously he'll stay but otherwise I don't know.

Jeff, I would be estatic if your idea is a reality - We lose Scottie and land the Glove, and then probably Anderson after he learns he gets the starters role! THink of this line-up;

C - Dream, Washington/Carr
PF - Othella, Barkley, Thomas
SF - Anderson, Mack
SG - Dickerson, Mobley
PG - Payton, Price, Drew

With Payton there, Mobley can move to SG and Mack to SF, as this would give us a well-balanced, athletic team.

But . . . it's probably just wishful thinking and I don't want to get my hopes up, so lets just forgetta about it!

Azim da Dream

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"Realize if you have time to whine and complain about something, you have time to do something about it."

Jeff

08-11-1999, 11:28 PM

I say forget about Barkley retiring. If he doesn't want to be here with Pippen gone, do a sign and trade and get him to a team where he can compete for a championship and we can get a player or two in return.

Maybe this offseason won't be so dull after all!

grummett

08-11-1999, 11:34 PM

Don't forget Horry, Azim.

Doctor Robert

08-11-1999, 11:40 PM

If we could get Payton, Horry, and Anderson I think we might benefit even more by making another trade involving a couple of the following people - Barkley, Othella, Mobley, Price, Maloney - so we could get ourselves a young starter at power forward.

[This message has been edited by Doctor Robert (edited August 11, 1999).]

Ih8walton

08-11-1999, 11:43 PM

Here's the news from the AP wire

Report: Pippen Wants To Go to L.A.

HOUSTON (AP) — Scottie Pippen has asked to be traded to the Los Angeles Lakers, a television station reported Wednesday.

KRIV-TV, citing sources which it did not identify other than to say they were close to the Houston Rockets forward, said that Pippen recently asked coach Rudy Tomjanovich to be traded to the Lakers.

Jimmy Sexton, Pippen's agent, declined comment, telling KRIV he would neither confirm nor deny the story. Tomjanovich did not address the issue either, citing club policy that prohibits team officials from commenting on trade speculation.

The Lakers also had nothing to say about any proposed deal that would reunite Pippen with Phil Jackson, the new Los Angeles coach who previously coached Pippen and the Chicago Bulls to six NBA championships.

``I guess you'd have to talk to Houston about that,'' Lakers spokesman John Black said.

Black would not comment as to whether the teams were discussing a trade involving the seven-time NBA All-Star.

Pippen joined the Rockets prior to last season when the Rockets pulled off a sign-and-trade deal with the Bulls. Pippen signed a five-year contract worth $67.2 million.

Last month, Pippen said he wanted to come back with the Rockets.

Pippen, a 12-year veteran, averaged 14.5 points, 6.5 rebounds and 5.9 assists a game this past season.

BeamUsUpScottie^^^33

08-11-1999, 11:47 PM

**** THIS. $%#%$# $@$#!

**** HIM. TOO MAD TO TYPE.

I HATE JACKSON AND HIS ZEN CRAP.

I HATE THAT FAKER TEAM AND THAT WHOLE TOWN OF PHONIES.

I CAN'T BELIEVE I THOUGHT THIS GUY WOULD "BEAM US UP" AND TAKE H-TOWN TO THE NEXT LEVEL.

****

Forget the Spazz, this Faker team is the team to hate.

I'll be back later when i can speak a little more like a thirteen year old lady and properly reperesent my upbringing.

Have a nice night everyone. Atleast try to.

P.S.

Any way i can change this wretched screen name Clutch?

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JACK KEVORKIAN FOR LA LAKER TEAM PHYSICIAN

SirCharlesFan

08-11-1999, 11:48 PM

I am watching Fox SportsNet and KEITH OLBERMAN just confirmed this story. He said that their Houston affiliate (KRIV) had infomred them of this story. They contacted Rudy T, but due to team policies he could not comment. Pippen's agent could not be contacted.

SHAME ON YOU SCOTTIE

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Sir Charles is DA MAN.

Azim da Dream

08-11-1999, 11:49 PM

You're right Grummett, my bad.

That makes it even stronger . . .

Azim da Dream

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"Realize if you have time to whine and complain about something, you have time to do something about it."

Clutch

08-11-1999, 11:54 PM

Scottie Pippen:

GO TO HELL. GO DIRECTLY TO HELL. DO NOT VISIT LA. DO NOT COLLECT 85 MILLION DOLLARS.

Scottie Pippen assured himself of being one of my most hated players in this league... not only did he do this despite all his lies to the contrary, he probably diminished any trading leverage we had with the Lakers. I want nothing the Lakers are willing to trade, but they now know Scottie wants to be in LA and will make it happen.

Scottie Pippen... no one has taken more and given less in our franchise history.

Remember, we had Ralph Sampson.

Go to hell Scottie.

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Clutch

Rockets get Pippened... again
www.clutchcity.net (http://www.clutchcity.net)

Rocket Guard

08-11-1999, 11:58 PM

I guess this is true.the guy in sportscenter said aldridge confirmed this and that pippen asked rudy t to start looking for a deal that would work

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NEVER underestimate the heart of a champion!!!

Jenna

08-11-1999, 11:58 PM

I was just thinking here....

IF the team in the city of Houston is able to make a deal for Mr. Payton, would someone who was kinda hoping to join him in the backcourt for the team in the city of Seattle want to join him here? Mr. Richmond's camp has been shockingly silent this week, so who knows what's going on there, but could it actually happen? Doubtful, but wouldn't it be just peachy if it did. It would kinda make it like trading Pip for Payton and Richmond. I could live with that....

Throw Shandon (who I hear the Rockets have offered a starting role to; in this little fantasy team I'm creating, he'd fall into the 3 spot)into the mix, and you've got a pretty descent team.

I have a feeling Chuck would be happy to return if this happened....

Isn't the imagination a wonderful thing?

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Jenna
Signed, sealed, delivered, I'm stuck as a you-know-who fan 'til 2003. Once I decide if this is a good thing or a bad thing, I'll let ya know!

grummett

08-12-1999, 12:00 AM

In Steve Kelley's column in today's Seattle Times, he speculates on what Payton's mindset will be come training camp when he sees what a mess Wally Walker has made this offseason. He can see him demanding a trade. My advice to Payton would be to not wait until camp to start demanding.

Rob in Spring

08-12-1999, 12:00 AM

I wish the Rockets would spite him and either just hold onto him, or trade him the Clippers, Dallas, or some other NBA wasteland.

SCOTTIE YOU ARE AN INGRATE

Jenna

08-12-1999, 12:06 AM

What? David Aldridge has confirmed this? We can all rest now, there is no way this can be true - Mark Berman must be wrong for once.

Has the David Aldridge curse botched this little "Go to Hell, Scottie!" fest? I hope not....

MEMO TO SCOTTIE PIPPEN:

When you left Chicago after the 1997-98 season, you headed south. You have not gone as far south as you should. If you head to the West, you are going in the wrong direction. You are to continue going south. You may stop going south when you hit temperatures in the thousands and see a little man with horns surrounded by fire. However, before you continue your journey, please fill out about 1 million envelopes filled with cash addressed to all Houston season-ticket holders and fans as payment for their pain and suffering that you caused them over the past 8 months. Remember, you are headed south....you'll know it when you get to your destination because you'll see a sign reading: "We've been waiting for you. Welcome to hell."

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Jenna
Signed, sealed, delivered, I'm stuck as a you-know-who fan 'til 2003. Once I decide if this is a good thing or a bad thing, I'll let ya know!

[This message has been edited by Jenna (edited August 11, 1999).]

Ih8walton

08-12-1999, 12:19 AM

Does anyone think Barkley will drop Houston and follow Pippen to L.A. or has L.A. used all of it's exceptions signing other players.

Just a thought in all of this craziness.

Tha Play Maker

08-12-1999, 12:31 AM

This is a blessing in disguise...oh man, i really think something is gonna happen here thats gonna make us legit contenders again. i say get rid of barkley too because he's taking time away from othella. we can send barkley to indiana or ny for someone, maybe camby??? then that trade that jeff mentioned would be ideal for everyone. then again, this is all just speculation. well, we all got what we wanted, didnt we? just hope everyone's happy when the dust settles...

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If blended properly, youth and experience can be deadly...

knits stekcor

08-12-1999, 12:53 AM

I say keep Barkley at all costs. He was by far the best player we had last year. He is by far the clutch-est performer last year. And without him, we have terrible offensive rebounding, if we don't already. Sure, he will play the slow post-up offense, but he was always the one to make the long outlet pass on the fast breaks. Othella is still light-years away from Barkley's level. If we lose Chuck, I doubt we'd have any chance of getting another title, even with Payton.

DREAMer

08-12-1999, 12:57 AM

Well, well, well...

I say good riddance to bad rubbish. If we're smart we'll trade him to a crap team like the Clippers or Vancouver. We can't keep him and expect him to play up to his potential now.

If there is any way for us to get Payton in some 3, 4, or 5-way trade(I don't care how many teams need to be involved), then this is what I wanted all along.

Don't forget, Horry does not want to play here either. Remember the last time he disliked playing somewhere? Anyone remember Danny Ainge. If we do get him via trade, we'd just have to trade him somewhere else.

Another thing to remember, Othella Harrington for all his energy just isn't a high level starting PF. His defense is terrible and can't pass. Sure, passing shouldn't be our top concern for our PF, but to be in the starting five, I think you should be able to move the ball around.

As much as I don't like to admit it, we need Barkley. Unless we can sign and trade him for another top level PF.

Axeman

08-12-1999, 01:02 AM

If anything, the last couple of days shows that the rebuilding of the Rockets has begun in earnest. Bill Berry goes to the Bulls, Robert Barr resigns... Now, Pippen starts whining to be traded (I guess it IS all about Scottie... LOSER). If you ask me, this all points to the fact that the situation the last couple of years was far from harmonious and that guys are just getting sick of it.

For one thing, let Scottie go... The last thing we all need is a crybaby half-assing his way around the court.

Next, let Barkley go find a "contender" to join. Problem is, any "contender" he joins will soon be on their way to destruction because he will come in and start insulting everyone for being overweight and out of shape and then proceed to demand the ball all the time and take it away from the players that made the team a contender in the first place (sound familiar???). Chuck hasn't figured out yet that HE'S the problem, not the team he happens to be on.

Let Hakeem finish his career in peace, and start building for the future. At least let's have SOME diginity left for the Rockets...

I don't really care WHO we get for Pippen... As long as it's someone who wants to be here and wants to put forth some effort.

knits stekcor

08-12-1999, 01:04 AM

I wonder if we would be able to lure Rod Strickland away from Washington if Payton doesn't work out. With Richmond trying to leave and Calbert Cheaney gone already, the Wizards don't seem to be getting better. And they remain a terrible team every year, so Strickland can't be too happy, unless he just has no desire to win. I don't know too much about him, except that his salary is about $10 mil, so he would work in a three way trade. And the Rockets were interested in him a few years ago, so they must like something about him.

VMaxwe11

08-12-1999, 01:18 AM

All this negativity towards Pippen is way too personal...I mean come on now, if YOU had to choose between living in Southern California versus here, would you not be in the same mind-set as Pip? This team was headed nowhere with him, so just ship him off, and then pray the Rockets can lure Timmy D a little east on I-10 next summer.

Elienator

08-12-1999, 01:21 AM

Has anyone outside of KRIV actually confirmed this? Until then, I'll hold off on the Pippen Bashing. The biggest issue I see, is outside of Shaq, who could the Laker's offer that the Rockets would accept? Robert Horry and Glen Rice is freaking ridiculuous.

Aruba77

08-12-1999, 01:23 AM

What a looser. I'd rather have Payton anyway. Rudy will come up with something. I hope Jerry West is willing to part with some real talent because if he can't, this deal ain't going to happen. Ya'll are right, a third team is going to have to be involved. It's good speculation that it will be Seatle, but who knows. I say we must aquire Payton or Kobe somehow in the deal or it's nothing. I'd put that ultimatem out there right now for Pip and Zen Master Phil to chew on.

Clutch

08-12-1999, 01:30 AM

Pippen had the choice last year. He signed a huge deal that handcuffed us in many ways. We gave away a player we supposedly were high on (Mirsad Turkcan) just to make salary room for him, despite us having more cap room than just about everyone. He insisted on not just signing with us outright but making it a sign and trade so he could get the full amount possible.

He came to us talking about how he looked forward to finishing his career in Houston and "bringing the championship back to the city of Houston".

Now after one year he sees a bandwagon train and he's hopping on it "like nutty". I don't empathize with him one bit.

As they say in Ace Ventura:

"Scottie Pippen should die of gonorrhea and rot in hell.......... cookie?"

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Clutch

Rockets get Pippened... again
www.clutchcity.net (http://www.clutchcity.net)

SLC GRIFF

08-12-1999, 01:36 AM

I could have swore I remember something about Pips and Jackson's relationship not being all that great. Remember the incident in the playoffs with Kukoc. How could Jackson want someone on his team that doesnt want to be in the game because the ball is not coming to him. He was a joke then and still is a joke to this day. After only 1 yr of cheering for him I am officially retired from the Pippen fan club. See ya.

KANE

08-12-1999, 05:55 AM

Give 'em hell CLUTCH!!!

This whole fiasco has made me sick to my damn stomach. I have lost ALL my respect for this guy Pippen. I thought that he would at least have the sincerity and integrity to want to stay a while longer. But, ironically no.....he doesn't even have the balls or work ethic to stick it out with a team that he supposedly calls his own.

I have now come to the conclusion that Scottie Pippen is just another ageing, bitching, false, over-paid phony with absolutely NO loyalty to anyone but himself and probably his bank ( I even doubt that now though). I say we SHOULD get rid of this guy as soon as possible, because I for one could NOT stand one more season of this whining and underachieving excuse for a man.

To put it bluntly: Scottie Pippen is a steaming pile of camel ***** laying on the freeway that someone needs to clean up. He needs to go and go NOW. Jeff's 3 way deal would be perfect. The only problem being Seattle. Would they be willing to part with a talent such as Payton? The ONLY way would be if he demanded a trade. Interesting possibility.

I once supported Pippen, even through his poor performances and jive sessions, but I can now confidently say that he CAN and probably WILL go to HELL!!! I mean, playing for the Lakers and Jerry West must be the closest thing on this earth to actually experiencing it, right?!!

Pathetic Pippen........Pathetic

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KANE is PISSED more than usual.....

RocketMan Tex

08-12-1999, 08:36 AM

If Pippen wants out so bad, then let's trade him...

To the Wizards for recently acquired Ike Austin

Or to the Nuggets straight up for Antonio McDyess, who we should have signed in the first place!!

But, by all means, DON'T TRADE HIM TO THE FAKERS!!!!

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HOW SWEET IT WAS (AND COULD BE AGAIN)!!!!!!!!!!

Dunk

08-12-1999, 08:46 AM

I believe that the Rockets hold some leverage if they plan on trading Pippen. If the Fakers want him that bad, then shell out some players.

After the dust has settled, if the Rockets cannot obtain Payton via 3-way trade(s), then we should consider rebuilding. Don't get me wrong, I want to contend, but at what price? Why should the Rockets receive Faker players with long contracts that they didn't want (unless its Kobe)??? This would only keep them over the cap for a longer period.

If this trade happens, Barkley is gone! If we can't get a bonafide player in return, we should obtain players who are in their last year of their contracts. Then by next summer, we'll have some cap room to dangle in front of Duncan & Hill's eyes.

Heck, maybe we can trade the Fakers we get to obtain 1st round picks?? I don't know. I can't believe this is happening. I just hope the Rocks don't give in to a wimpy deal.

So the million question is....If we can't obtain a impact player through this deal, should we start the rebuilding process?? Keep in mind that I favor keeping Dream...

Ciao!

kissofdeath

08-12-1999, 08:48 AM

I would love a Pippen for Payton and Horry deal. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
In fact, I would support a Payton for Pippen deal -- straight up. Anything more is gravy. I wasn't impressed with Pippen's defense last year -- constantly torched by every small forward in the league. I'm not going to get personal with him -- ship him if he wants to go, but let's bring the glove to town.
We need a guard who can take it to the hole and play stiffling D. We need a player that is aggressive -- something our team lacked last year.

aelliott

08-12-1999, 09:13 AM

I think everyone's first choice would be any deal that gets us Gary Payton, but I can't see Seattle making that deal. Seattle is going to do everything possible to keep Payton happy. He told them to sign a guy "like Vernon Maxwell", so Seattle went out and signed Maxwell. Payton is tight with Vin Baker, so Seattle is going to resign Baker for the max allowed. I don't think that Seattle (or anyone for that matter) is going to want to give up a superstar for Rice when he can walk away after next season. Rice is supposedly saying he wants a $14M starting salary on a new contract. The Rockets are in a tough spot. If they can't swing an acceptable 3 way deal, I say keep Pippen (even if he does pout) before you take Rice for him. You can always trade him later in the year or next season.

Cheivous Jamerson

08-12-1999, 09:17 AM

I hope that the Rockets hold out and don't give up one of our "Superstars" for anything less than another superstar. The Lakers will be nearly unstoppable with Shaq, Scottie, and Kobe. The Rox must hold out for either:

1) Having Kobe as part of the deal.
2) A multi-team deal which nets us another "Superstar"

I now have another reason to hate LA. (I am up to 632.)

aelliott

08-12-1999, 09:28 AM

Jeff,

There's a couple of problems with your proposed deal:

1. The combined salaries of Rice/Fisher/Horry are more like $16M. Rice $7M, Horry $5M and Fisher $4M+ (he just signed a new 7year/$30M) deal.

2. Since he was resigned (and it wasn't a sign and trade deal), I don't believe that LA can include Fisher in a trade for 6 months. Same reason that the Rockets couldn't include Harrington,Bullard,Eddie or Maloney in a deal during the season last year.

3. Since the Rockets are over the cap, they wouldn't be able to accept $16M in salary (Payton's $11M and Horry's $5M) if they were only giving up $14M in salary (Pippen's $14M). We don't have the available $2M in cap room that would be required.

hos

08-12-1999, 09:46 AM

"pippen, go to hell" Come on fellas, don't overdo it. basketball-wise he was clearly unhappy last season. I could understand his position IF Rudy told him the team's supposedly changes in offensive strategy won't be happening this season. that would explain the non-involvement of the Rockets in the trade-frenzy this post-season.
Then, I would too, wanted to leave this place. Remember, he has no real Houston-heart. To him, like most people in the NBA, it's just business combined with pleasure. Where can I make my money and where can I play the way I want to play. If this scenario is in effect, don't diss Pip too hard.

If not, if he still demands a trade while Rudy is still willing to change the offense than he is the a**hole y'all say he is. He would be an important piece of the puzzle and without him, well we just have to dump the ball inside again.

Let him go. This will mean we for sure won't win a championship now or in the 2000-2001 season. Whoever we get in return (Payton, Rice, Anderson), it will take time for them to fit in. Especially dominant players like Payton. He will be in the same situation Pippen was in last year. Will the Rockets be willing to construct their offense to the quality of a newcomer, or does the newcomer has to fit in the existing system in order to win now? With Bark en Dream still around, I don't know. Maybe it's wise to let Chuck go also. Let's rebuild around one of the premier newcomers... and win later.

Jovi

08-12-1999, 09:53 AM

Clutch is right: this is a question of character. You don´t sign with a team for half a year and when you see a better scenario, jump off the train.

But what do you expect from a guy who beat up his fiancee? Character?

However, I have lost the little respect for him which was left...he, indeed, is a whiner.

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President, CEO and Commissioner of BBS Sim League

members.aol.com/bebulsky/sim (http://members.aol.com/bebulsky/sim)

Caddman

08-12-1999, 10:18 AM

Didn't Horry say he didn't want to play in Houston again? Would Devan George or Rick Fox be any more attractive to the Rockets?

Rocketman95

08-12-1999, 10:42 AM

Good point Jovi.

LA is the city that let O.J. beat his wife over and over isn't it?

Sorry, that was WAY below the belt, and I'll really feel sorry for it if Pippen ends up staying.

Pole

08-12-1999, 10:42 AM

The deal should be Pippen and Barkley for Kobe and Rice. All four of the players are good, and all four of the players have baggage. Barkley's still a FA, so he can be signed and traded for whatever amount to make the $$$ come out correctly. One way or the other, Barkley and Rice will probably not be with their respective teams again after next year, and both Kobe and Pippen are good but immature players who will probably be with their respective teams for awhile--I don't see any of them growing up any time soon. Anyway, it seems like an even trade to me. Part of me says that we should just bite the bullet though, and take whatever we can get (which is probably what we'll have to do). Pippen is highly overrated, old, apparently still injured, and a wishy-washy child. More than that though, he's way overpaid. It seems that no matter what we get, we'll--in a way--come out ahead; after all, they will have to send us something for all that money Pippen's getting. God, I hope they can at least ship off Maloney with Pippen.

JuanValdez

08-12-1999, 11:32 AM

I think I'm happy Pippen demanded a trade: I've never liked him (being a Bull), and now that he's demanded a trade, I won't have to learn to like him. This move does seem perfectly consistent with his character: he's a coward. It's paramount to admitting he can't take it to the next level by himself.

That said, while fans can bash him all they like, I really hope the Rockets can put their personal feelings (betrayal, etc.) behind them and approach this as a business decision. Wanting to wreck revenge on Pippen can only hurt us. We've got a guy on the shopping block now and we just need to get the best value we can for him.

For one, we need to trade him. He won't be any more effective next year after this. And, he's only going to be worth less after the season. I think, however, that his blaming the system is going to be good for us: perhaps it will make other GMs think it was our fault he didn't perform up to expectations instead of laying the blame where it belongs: on Pippen for not being as good as his hype. I had been afraid that last season would have exposed Pippen for the fraud he is, but hopefully it has not.

For two, we don't need to trade him to the Lakers. We shouldn't avoid it just to be spiteful, but we should ship him where the payback is best (Rice ain't it). Other teams may be wary of taking him since he wants to play for the Lakers, but I'd bet the Clippers' owner would like that Pippen could sell some tickets, and also would like that Pippen can't bail on him like all his other players for another 4 years.

For three, if no one else will match the Lakers' offer, at least make them take Maloney and maybe Bullard in the mix. I hate all the Lakers' personnel so I don't know who I'd want in return but I'm sure they'd get traded again anyway.

And for finally, unless we can score a major coup by getting Payton (not likely), we're going to have to lay down this year. Get draft picks, build for the post-Olajuwon era. Don't bother with cap space: it isn't worth anything anymore.

As for Barkley, I feel bad for him (though I've never much liked him either). Pippen completely shafted him. Barkley gave up millions for a shot at the ring. When Barkley decided to come back, he decided to come to a team with a less than great shot (but still a legitimate shot) at the championship so that he could get his money. Now Pippen is forcing him to choose between his money and his shot at the championship. Perhaps we could do a sign and trade for Barkley but I think it would have to be for draft picks after Barkley's retirement. Anything else would hurt his shot at the ring.

playahata

08-12-1999, 11:58 AM

Scottie...if u want out be gone!!!
Scottie and Phil Jackson both had chances to prove that their success was not simply a result of MJ playing with them. But alas, they must figure that together they can continue to project the illusion of greatness. Screw Scottie, the silver lining to this cloud is 2 fold.
1. At least we can unload some damaged goods upon a Western Conf. rival.
2. Make LA pay dearly for Scottie (show me how bad Phil and Scottie want each other).
Rice is not gonna cut it. I want an "untouchable" player...The Rockets ponied up franchise money for him....he now wants out???We get a franchise player or nothing.

sailor

08-12-1999, 12:06 PM

JuanValdez:
You have a point. If we want to trade Pip (now it's not an "if" anymore), this is the best time when his value is still high.

And to all those who're concerned that Pip and Phil Jackson will make the Lakers a contender, I have to say that, I, for one, is not worried at all. I didn't realize Jordan's greatness when he was still in the league, in fact, I didn't really like him at all. However, after seeing all these ex-bulls perform so miserably in the league (Pip included), I am in awe of this guy. He made all these other guys stars -- including Jackson. Jackson and Pip are the son and daughter of Jordan. We shall see, Jackson, like Pip, is just another emperor without cloth. They can't do anything without Jordan. Remember a little while ago some Lakers players complaint about Jackson's "triangle offense"? It aint working without Jordan, I tell ya man!

BTW, this is what I heard some time ago on KPRC when they were talking about trading Dream. A woman called in and talked to Fran Blineburry:

Woman (frustrated): Why do they want to trade Hakeem ... keep Hakeem, I'll trade Pippen for a pound of dirt.
Fran: Just a pound?
Woman: I say just half a pound.
Fran: Haha ...

Sailor

[This message has been edited by sailor (edited August 12, 1999).]

MoonBus

08-12-1999, 12:14 PM

I agree with aelliott & JuanValdez's posts. You guys make great posts! (Not to say others don't, but I generally agree with their's more).

As much as I love to get Payton, I think it's just wishful thinking on our part. I just don't see Seattle trading away Payton for Rice.

I also don't think Rice will be great for us. We are trying to get away from the dump-and-stand offense, aren't we? If we do get Rice, how can we even try to implement the run-and-shoot? I am also not sure Charles will stay with Rice being here.

I really don't think we will get much for Charles, maybe a low 1st round draft pick. Are anyone out there that are really that desperate to give us alot for a one year player? If there are, we would've already heard about it.

For those people thinking that by getting Rice, we can dump his salary and try to get Duncan or Hill... stop dreaming. I really don't see them coming to Houston. What do we have to offer for these players? We are not 1 man away from a championship. As much as I like Duncan and Hill, if their respective teams offer a sign-and-trade so that they can get more money, I bet they will not hesitate. What do we have to offer Detroit or SA? If we give away all our talents (Othello + Dickerson and probably a Drew or Mobley), what do we have left as a team? We will have either :
Duncan + aging Dream + Kenny + Drew/Mobley/Dickerson + scrubs or
Hill + aging Dream + Kenny + Drew/Mobley/Dickerson + scrubs
Why would Duncan or Hill want to be on such a team?

Maybe I am over pessimistic, but I think the Rockets will be in the valleys for the next 3 or 4 years no matter what the outcome of this potential trade of Pippen's (unless a miracle happens and we get Kobe or Shaq or Glove).

It's sad to see all this happening, but you know what, I will still cheer for them even if they are 13-69 for the next few years (they won't be that bad http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/smile.gif).

Aruba77

08-12-1999, 12:23 PM

We need to put an ultimatum to Scottie. We should tell him that he'd better knip at Phil's ears long enough for him to make something work with Seattle so we get Payton, or trade Kobe. We should tell him that if we don't get one of those two players int the deal, then there is no deal. We'll have him sit out the rest of his sorry career before we alow him to screw us like this.

popeye

08-12-1999, 02:03 PM

Actually Sir Scar.....

Been waiting to hear from you ... sounds plausible,will wait for aelliott's/Jeff's final finance scrutiny,however,while we wait

... why not start talking to Wolves about: T Brandon and Wally and a pick for Pippen and Maloney,then let them deal with LA for Kobe or whomever ... money wise it will work ... T is still without a signed contract and Wally's maybe a forward luxury the Wolves can trade without too much pain, and ya'll know they would love to market Kobe and KG together .....

hoopjunkie

08-12-1999, 02:33 PM

KG is my favorite (non-rocket)player in the league. He's someone that really enjoys himself out on the court and loves to play the game. Though I don't feel that way about Kobe, it would indeed be a treat to see the two of them on the court on the same team. Talk about above the rim... I still remember the all-star game where garnett threw a sweet oop to Kobe for an arena rocking slam. You gotta admit that would be a fun team to watch.

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- hoopjunkie

uh oh, hoop is a trademark of the NBA...

[This message has been edited by hoopjunkie (edited August 12, 1999).]

Jeff

08-12-1999, 02:40 PM

VMaxwell: you mean you actually advocate living in LA over Houston!?

Rocket Fan

08-12-1999, 04:47 PM

IS ANYONE ELSE REPORTING THIS STORY. ESPN IS SAYING THEY GOT IT FROM KRIV IN HOUSTON SO IS KRIV THE ONLY STATION THAT GOT THE INFO CAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE EVERYONE ELSE IS SAYING THEY GOT IT FROM KRIV

Rocket Fan

08-12-1999, 04:51 PM

I WISH WE could get someone good. like a quality point guard. i would even like richmond but he's old. I just hope that rudy doens't just go ahead and trade him to the lakers. either make the lakers give us a lot or trade his sorry self somewhere else. we treat him good and now he does this junk to us. I bet the whole time he was planning on leaving. a lot of poe[le figured phil would come back into coaching but instead of signing a short deal mr pippen signs a 5 year deal so he can get his cash knowing that when phil came back he woudl demand a trade. i have lost all respect for him

PIPPEN IS ALWAYS RUDE TO THE FANS FOR INSTANCE JUST WAIVING ME OFF WHEN I TRIED TO TALK TO HIM.

PIPPEN SHOWED THAT HES IS A QUITTER AND LOSER. HE COULDNT' LEARN THE ROCKETS NEW OFFESNE SO HE LEFT. I SAY HE SHODLNT EVEN GET IN THE HALL OF FAME IF HE CAN ONLY PLAY IN THE TRAINGLE AND NO WHERE ELSE. MAKE THE SORRY LAKERS GIVE US SHAQ OR TRADE PIPPEN TO THE RAPTORS BECAUSE I DONT' WANT RICE WHO WILL LEAVE AFTER NEXT YEAR ANYWAYS. TO THINK I WAS ACTUALLY TRYING HARD TO LIKE PIPPEN. I'M NOT A BIG BULLS FAN EVER SO IT WAS HARD TO GET USED TO BUT I GAVE PIPPEN A CCHANCE AND THEN HE MESSES AROUND WITH OUR ORGANIZATION. HE GETS A dwi, AND WHINES ABOUT THE SYSTEM

[This message has been edited by Rocket Fan (edited August 12, 1999).]

Rocket Fan

08-12-1999, 05:02 PM

SORRY For caps in above post and the dobule post but one last thing if the raptors would have given us all that talent for dream what would they give us for scottie. i'm just saying that because toronto is the place no palyer wants to be and i think scottie deserves to be in toronto or on the clips

aelliott

08-12-1999, 09:52 PM

sir scarvajal,

Payton makes about $11M and Pippen makes $14M. If you include Mobley then he only bumps the ante by $250K. That means that Seattle would need to include around $1M in salary. Of course, I still don't believe that Payton is going anywhere. Seattle is going to do whatever it takes to retain Payton. If they ever do decide to trade him, they'll go young and rebuild.

What's the appeal of Fisher? Is he really any better than Drew or Mobley?

Popeye,

LA's not going to trade Kobe for Pippen. Period. Kobe's got 15 more years, Pippen's got what 3 or 4 (if that many)?

RocketFan,

Toronto won't give you anything good for Pippen. They already have Christie,McGrady and Vince Carter. They don't need swing players (especially older ones), they need big people with post up ability.

Scream

08-13-1999, 12:57 AM

You all are freakin crazy if you thing that the Lakers are going to give up Shaq or Kobe for ugly ass Pippen. Why the hell would we want another SF and ruin our chances of getting a PF. You people are dumber than I thought.

DaGurney

08-13-1999, 01:02 AM

Have you considered a bag of chips, a squirrel and some piscola for Pippen?

sir scarvajal

08-13-1999, 01:15 AM

Believe it or not this is probably the best news I have heard in a while (Pippen wants out). It is not because I dislike Pippen or think he still isn't a very good player right now. But we were not going to win anthing with our current Big 3 and the set of players without them, we were simply too far away last year and I think it is obvious to the objective person.

Also, I think poeple are way overestimating the value of Kobe. They guy has great talent but isn't a great player, shoots way too much, and does not have the team mentality like the other HS superstar KG. I could see huge chemistry problems with Shaq Fu, Give Me the Damn Ball Kobe, and Scapgoating Scottie ("Hey, I might have lost the ball, but Chuck missed a free throw") trying to share the limelight (and the credit). So I agree with some above posts that if LA has the best deal or is part of the best deal we should "use them".

I have hit this point a couple of times before but noone seemed to latched on so I will try again. Pippen, who WAS a great player and unbelievable role player, who NOW is still a outstanding all around player, is also a guy with a bad back whose body has more wear and tear than a typical 34 year old NBA player. He also is a guy whose greatness is not dependent on height nor strength nor smarts nor pure shooting skills, but rather speed and atheleticsm (things that go more quickly with age). He has started on a downward trend (track his stats over the last 4 years) and in my opinion in 3 years (when we are supposed to have our fine tuned motion and running team lead by a point forward) will not be the player Hakeem nor Chuck is now.

If we can get Payton whether using the Lakers in the mix or not we should do it in a heart beat. Chuck would return, Chuck knows Payton (he has called him the best in the league) is a better player than Pippen and he would have a better chance at a ring with him. I would even send MD, CM or Drew with Pip to Seattle to sweeten the deal (they could send an older guard like Hawkins or Maxwell to make the salary work). Then I would to a hard sell on Anderson for our starting SF then approach Mack or some other player if it didn't work out. Adding Payton and Anderson to our mix would immediately improve our defense as well as our offense.

As far as an LA deal alone (2nd option), I would want Rice, Horry and Fisher, even if it means waiting 6 months to make the deal official. Aelliot, could you see any problems with that approach?? I know if they are you will find them.

[This message has been edited by sir scarvajal (edited August 12, 1999).]

Azim da Dream

08-13-1999, 01:38 AM

As slim a chance as there is of landing Payton, the Rocks have got to freaking try every possibility there is!

The best way is to instigate a Payton trade-demand. Send Barkley on a flight to Seattle - with Rudy T close behind, the guy needs some supervision - and go on a mission to persuade The Glove to head south to Texas and play along Dream and Sir Charles. Chuck can do to PAyton what GP and Baker did to Barkley last year berfore he signed with the Rocks. Go back to Vegas, watch a few fights, and most importantly, let Charles do the talking!

I'm sure this idea sounds real dumb, but keep in mind I'm running on little sleep here!

Azim da Dream

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"Realize if you have time to whine and complain about something, you have time to do something about it."