Are fans over-doing it?

[CXbby]

You know what i'm talking about - their incessant bitching about our own players drawing fouls.

Personally I think they are over doing it.. they need to understand that there are things called rules in the game of basketball, and when broken we have something called a foul. It's ok if you want to complain about the guy doing the fouling, or the refs calling the foul, or even the rules itself. But to complain about the guy getting fouled, when he is actually on your team to boot, does not make much sense. Getting fouled is in fact a good thing, if you are rooting for that team.

I think the commonsense staff should address thisASAP.

[napalm_black]

I actually think it's integrity.

We complained (rightfully) when the Jazz did it, and now we're dealing with it on our own team.

You act like they're all legitimate fouls and it's just common sense. Maybe you're the one who is mistaken here.

[htownrox1]

I have no problem with the player getting the foul call, it actually helps the team (free throws, puts other player in foul trouble).

I'm more concerned about that player coming through in the clutch when the refs seem to swallow their whistles.

[gah]

I didn't even bother to open that other thread but isn't this part of the same discussion? I'll give you my vote before the probable lock/move.

[CXbby]

I actually think it's integrity.

We complained (rightfully) when the Jazz did it, and now we're dealing with it on our own team.

You act like they're all legitimate fouls and it's just common sense. Maybe you're the one who is mistaken here.

There is a difference between "flopping" and "drawing a foul".

Flopping -what the Jazz did/do- is frowned upon. This is because it is in fact trying to fake a foul, one which is actually not there in reality.

Drawing fouls -what some of our players are good at- is simply smart basketball.

For example, driving the lane and bumping off your defender before shooting -"creating contact"- is legit. This is because the rules prohibit a defender from impeding his path. Another example, raising your arms in a shooting motion when the defender has his hand in your chest -hand check- is legit. This is because he is not allowed to do that.

Those two examples are how the vast majority of our fouls are drawn. Not flopping.

To not do those things, instead avoid contact when driving the lane, and smile at your defender when his hands are on you, is plain dumb basketball. Apparently some people frown upon following rules, and applaud stupidity.

[Stevierebel]

No, not when members of the organization are noticing the same thing.

Need to stop trying to play for calls and just execute thinking no call is going to be made.

[Vanilla Rice]

Flopping on offense is falling down every time there is contact with a defender. Contact is legal, a defender has the right to his own space. If you run into him and fall down, that's flopping.

Something Lowry does quite a bit of.

Another flop is if you head-fake a defender in the air, but the defender goes straight up. If you intentionally jump into the defender (who is straight up) and shoot some crazy shot and fall down, that is a flop.

Something else Lowry does quite a bit of.

[leebigez]

Cxbby- The rox flop as much if more than be jazz. I've been watching the rockets since 78 and this squad is full of floppers. Martin,scola, and lowry act like they were hit by a freight train when they get fouled. I hate the fact that as a young player, coaches always tell you to stay on your feet. If you watch, the rockets are always on the ground. Go and watch Dream and company, those uys stood tall, played through whistles, and manned up. It seems all of adelman teams are whiner and crybabies. The blazers and kings were known as whiny teams.

[CXbby]

The blazers and kings were known as whiny teams.

That did not stop them from also being known as contending teams.

[DaDakota]

No, but fans who whine about other fans are way over doing it !

DD

[Scarface]

Cxbby- The rox flop as much if more than be jazz. I've been watching the rockets since 78 and this squad is full of floppers. Martin,scola, and lowry act like they were hit by a freight train when they get fouled. I hate the fact that as a young player, coaches always tell you to stay on your feet. If you watch, the rockets are always on the ground. Go and watch Dream and company, those uys stood tall, played through whistles, and manned up. It seems all of adelman teams are whiner and crybabies. The blazers and kings were known as whiny teams.

I agree 100%. It kind of feels like my first true love has become a slut...

How could we go from the RonRon era to this?! Martin frustrates the crap out of me. He is a great scorer and all but man he just rubs me the wrong way with his cheap play.

Just man up and play hard.

[rju1986]

..Especially during game time- at crunch time, when the team is down, the crowd's chants become deafening (on our offensive possessions). If I were a mediocre player, I would find it more nerve-wrecking than not; the stress and pressure to bring a win to your city-- to not disappoint your fans.

But, then I guess, that's what separates the stars from the role players.

Hm, maybe my post was beside the point.

[napalm_black]

That did not stop them from also being known as contending teams.
I won't argue that flopping leads to contention in the NBA... it's just a matter of how accepting you are of that fact. :(

[DaDakota]

I won't argue that flopping leads to contention in the NBA... it's just a matter of how accepting you are of that fact. :(

Doesn't lead to NBA championships or playoff success though, still got to make shots.

Flopping occassionally is smart, flopping as much as the Rox do, is killing our late game calls because Refs are tired of it just like we fans are.....

DD

[leebigez]

That did not stop them from also being known as contending teams.

They lost because they got out toughed. While clyde,cliff, and porter were crying about a whistle, the bad boys were scraping,giving hard fouls, and executing. Sacramento was just as talented as la, but when you're best player is not the toughest guy, then it filters down. Game got tight and the kings got timid.

[studogg]

They lost because they got out toughed. While clyde,cliff, and porter were crying about a whistle, the bad boys were scraping,giving hard fouls, and executing. Sacramento was just as talented as la, but when you're best player is not the toughest guy, then it filters down. Game got tight and the kings got timid.

LA's best player was dressed in stripes. That, my friend, is an unfair advantage.

[Mashing]

Flopping on offense is falling down every time there is contact with a defender. Contact is legal, a defender has the right to his own space. If you run into him and fall down, that's flopping.

Something Lowry does quite a bit of.

Another flop is if you head-fake a defender in the air, but the defender goes straight up. If you intentionally jump into the defender (who is straight up) and shoot some crazy shot and fall down, that is a flop.

Something else Lowry does quite a bit of.

I don't blame the players for this at all if the NBA officials are going to continue to call it this way. The only way this stops is if they refs do not call it a foul or they call it an offensive foul.

Great, now I sound like Bullard.

[acjeitherocket]

nope...

[Gimmmethemike]

You know what i'm talking about - their incessant bitching about our own players drawing fouls.

Personally I think they are over doing it.. they need to understand that there are things called rules in the game of basketball, and when broken we have something called a foul. It's ok if you want to complain about the guy doing the fouling, or the refs calling the foul, or even the rules itself. But to complain about the guy getting fouled, when he is actually on your team to boot, does not make much sense. Getting fouled is in fact a good thing, if you are rooting for that team.

I think the commonsense staff should address thisASAP.

Lame ass post get back to reality man Rockets are a flopping ass team that needs to man up and play harder instead of flopping like Lil pussys. Oh yea I forgot to rate this damn thread. 1 star

[seeingred]

ahah. i get it. nice.

[Vanilla Rice]

I don't blame the players for this at all if the NBA officials are going to continue to call it this way. The only way this stops is if they refs do not call it a foul or they call it an offensive foul.

Great, now I sound like Bullard.


I don't mind it if the fouls are legit. But if Lowry throws up another jumper trying to draw a foul that hits the top of the backboard or the shot clock, I'll lose my lunch.

I miss the old days when players would be damned to let another player knock them down.

[JuanValdez]

The customer is always right.

[acsorelle4]

You said, "doing it."

Huh huh, huh huh.

[Roxs-Redemption]

Rocket's fans are always underrated :p

[Old Man Rock]

No, but fans who whine about other fans are way over doing it !

DD

^^ This

[meh]

You see, OP. Fans here just miss the days when Yao would jump in the air with his hands up and get called a foul when barreled by opposing offensive player. They miss the times when players like Dirk would get gazillion FTs against us every time someone looks at him.

See, then Rockets players realized that officiating won't change, so they have to match the floppiness that goes around elsewhere. That's why Morey brought in Dirk-lite in Kevin Martin, someone who stays in the perimeter yet still for some reason get tons of calls.

But fans haven't changed. That's why there's this slight hesitation. The lack of understand the fact that in order to win, you must play this way or get your ass kicked by other teams who take advantage of the officiating. That's why Rockets fans get upset.

[StupidMoniker]

I think the Rox should go the total opposite way. Not only should they not flop, but they should absolutely hammer the other team the whole game. From my many years of watching the NBA, I have noticed that outside of a few rare games, the refs generally call about the same number of fouls through the game, and often about the same number of fouls on each team. When teams are playing really physical, the color guy will say something about the refs really letting them play. When teams are jump shooting and flopping, you will get a comment about how the refs are calling ticky tack fouls.

The point is, even when your team picks up a lot of fouls early, the refs eventually seem to swallow their whistles, even though the actual contact does not diminish. That is where the strategy comes into play, because you continue muscling the other team around, but they stop getting free throws.

It reminds me of when Yao was playing under Van Gundy and kept getting called for charges in the paint. What he should have done is what Shaq did, just blatantly make your move every time down the court be a lowered shoulder bump into the defender to create space. They are not going to foul you out of every game for doing that, they will adjust to the way you are playing. In the end the refs adjusted to him without his changing his game, but he lost the opportunity to make the shoulder bump an established part of his game.

This ref adjustment is especially true of superstars, but it also works for teams. Teams get a reputation of being "physical defenders" like Detroit and San Antonio did, and they will just end up getting away with more. The Rockets are getting a reputation of being floppers and they are not getting some of the calls, especially late in games.

[Dreamin]

Nothing wrong with being AGRESSIVE and drawing the foul. Getting opponents into foul trouble is an absolute must. How else do you keep D.Howard out of a game?

Everything wrong with being coward/cheat and drawing a foul. Like flopping when you barely get touched. We dont like it when other teams do it to us, so its only fair for us not do engage in the same mockery. I see it as lying and lying is cheating. I like my games to be played fair and square, i respect players that think the same way as well.

I think putting up a fake then bumping into the guy as he reacts to the fake then drawing a foul is an act of cowardice. Thats the cheapest way and least manly way you can draw a foul. A dominant player can get by or out do his defender with ease and class. A dominant player doesnt need to settle for suspect methods for scoring.

I hate cheap fouls as well, when the defender knows he cant stop the guy so he holds him or shoves him in the back. That is an act of cowardice as well. Nothing wrong with hard fouls though where defender and ball carrier is coming at each other too fast and they meet and collide hard, or where the defendor is trying to block a dunk and in doing so hits his guy hard (not intentionally of course but in motion of trying legimately to block). As long as the foul wasnt intentional its all good. But what we see these days is the defendor fouling guys intentionally so they cant score. That is cheap, girly and cowardly too. He should be trying to stop him with good hard d, like a man.

Im not targetting anyone in partcular. I am targetting everyone that practices those things.

[leebigez]

LA's best player was dressed in stripes. That, my friend, is an unfair advantage.

Yep, the refs made vlade bat the ball out vs grabing the rebound. The stripes also made vlade and webber miss critical,4th qt ft's. What about the airballs from peja and christie? How about fox,horry,and shaq all having double digit rebounds vs vlade and the kings getting much less?