Morey's Options on draft night

[valorita]

While the Rockets did not make the playoffs this year (we would never have made it far anyways), we have been given chance at lottery talent in the 14th pick of the draft. For this year's draft, various members of the organization have said that the chances we will remain at their current draft position is 50/50. With that being said, what are some of the possible move up/down scenarios come draft day?

I'll start:

(UP) Clippers #8 for Chase Budinger + Houston #14
This could be an option if both W. Johnson and Aminu are off the board for the Clippers who are in need of a SF for their roster. Giving up Chase seems like a deal breaker for the Rockets, but if someone likes G. Monroe slips, then it might be worth a shot to move up.

(DOWN) Oklahoma #21 & #26 for Houston #14
Our current draft position is a little awkward because after the first 2-3 talent tiers, the players in this draft that are projected to go from 15-25 have pretty much similar potential. This type of move down scenario could happen if none of the guys that we've targeted at 14 fall to us or we believe that we can draft the player that we like at #21 and get a bonus pick as well. For Oklahoma, they can move up to nab a front court player in a PF heavy class.

Moving away from draft thoughts, Morey's team building philosophy has been to accrue assets in talent and future draft picks until you find the right buyer and trade them in for the "all-in". I think that either this year or next, we'll see that all-in type of move.

Anyways, what do you guys think are potential trade up/down scenarios?

[Rock3t Man]

I wouldnt trade budinger he has too much potential, especially not for the 8th pick.

[Egghead]

(UP) Clippers #8 for Chase Budinger + Houston #14
This could be an option if both W. Johnson and Aminu are off the board for the Clippers who are in need of a SF for their roster. Giving up Chase seems like a deal breaker for the Rockets, but if someone likes G. Monroe slips, then it might be worth a shot to move up.


I highly doubt Greg Monroe slips down to #8.

[valorita]

I wouldnt trade budinger he has too much potential, especially not for the 8th pick.

I understand your sentiment.
However, the point of the trade would not be in the 8th pick, but more of who might be available with that pick. For example, if D. Cousins was available at 8 would you still not want to trade Chase and #14?

[valorita]

I highly doubt Greg Monroe slips down to #8.


Rudy Gay slipped to 8.
I remember he was a surefire top 5 pick in '06.
Stranger things have happened (Minn picking all their pgs)

[Egghead]

I understand your sentiment.
However, the point of the trade would not be in the 8th pick, but more of who might be available with that pick. For example, if D. Cousins was available at 8 would you still not want to trade Chase and #14?

Again, that's a big IF. Joe Dumars likes Cousins alot, he wont get pass Detroit @ #7.

[valorita]

Again, that's a big IF. Joe Dumars likes Cousins alot, he wont get pass Detroit @ #7.


At this point, EVERYTHING is an if.
Tell me what you are sure about?

[Egghead]

At this point, EVERYTHING is an if.
Tell me what you are sure about?

At this point, I'm sure the top 4 will be

1. Wall
2. Turner
3. Favors
4. Wes Johnson

[Pocket Rockets]

(DOWN) Oklahoma #21 & #26 for Houston #14
Our current draft position is a little awkward because after the first 2-3 talent tiers, the players in this draft that are projected to go from 15-25 have pretty much similar potential. This type of move down scenario could happen if none of the guys that we've targeted at 14 fall to us or we believe that we can draft the player that we like at #21 and get a bonus pick as well. For Oklahoma, they can move up to nab a front court player in a PF heavy class.

Anyways, what do you guys think are potential trade up/down scenarios?
I am not sure if Morey wants to commit guaranteed money to 2 first rounders. Decent options you've thought of though.

[coachbadlee]

Well rumor has it that Philly(#2) and Minny(#4) want to keep their picks. Plus, G. State may not want to trade Randolph and may want to keep their pick as well. I beleive the change of minds started when teams like Dallas, San Antonio and Cleveland started trying to buy picks so they could move up. It's not looking like we will be able to move up, but instead of trading down, why not just keep #1 and buy picks in the late first, second round. After all this is a deep draft. Use that #14 to get Whiteside. They must get Whiteside, he is starting to remind me of Garnett. :eek:

[coachbadlee]

Well rumor has it that Philly(#2) and Minny(#4) want to keep their picks. Plus, G. State may not want to trade Randolph and may want to keep their pick as well. I beleive the change of minds started when teams like Dallas, San Antonio and Cleveland started trying to buy picks so they could move up. It's not looking like we will be able to move up, but instead of trading down, why not just keep #1 and buy picks in the late first, second round. After all this is a deep draft. Use that #14 to get Whiteside. They must get Whiteside, he is starting to remind me of Garnett. :eek:
Sorry meant to say keep the #14.

[coachbadlee]

Again, that's a big IF. Joe Dumars likes Cousins alot, he wont get pass Detroit @ #7.
Cousins won't get past #5.

[DaDakota]

Rudy Gay slipped to 8.
I remember he was a surefire top 5 pick in '06.
Stranger things have happened (Minn picking all their pgs)

Rudy Gay's Rookie stats:

10.8 ppg 27 mpg .422 FG% .364 3pt% 4.5 rpg 1.3 apg (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=3005)

Chase Budinger's rookie stats:

8.9ppg 20 mpg .441 FG% .369 3pt% 3.0rpg 1.2apg (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3968)

Why give up an extra player, picks and cash, but not a valuable quality improving asset.

DD

[valorita]

I am not sure if Morey wants to commit guaranteed money to 2 first rounders. Decent options you've thought of though.


I think you're right about the guaranteed money.
Maybe Morey will try to hi-jack the player that Bucks want the pick right after us, and then trade that player for #15 + #37.
That is like the tacobell 3 items for 2 dollars deal...

Although, it could backfire and we end up getting stuck with a player that we don't really want.

[valorita]

Rudy Gay's Rookie stats:

10.8 ppg 27 mpg .422 FG% .364 3pt% 4.5 rpg 1.3 apg (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=3005)

Chase Budinger's rookie stats:

8.9ppg 20 mpg .441 FG% .369 3pt% 3.0rpg 1.2apg (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3968)

Why give up an extra player, picks and cash, but not a valuable quality improving asset.

DD


Because I believe that Budinger's ceiling is about the current level of Rudy Gay~ an athletic scorer that would be a 3rd option on a contending team.
If a guy that has potential to be a 2nd best option is available at 8, would you trade up? That is my point.
As for Chase's potential, I'm sure we all differ somewhat, but I don't think many of us truly believe he will be more than a fringe all-star player at his best.

[coachbadlee]

UH-OH!! Here comes DD! :)

[DaDakota]

UH-OH!! Here comes DD! :)

Dude, if the thread is the same, I am dropping the knowledge....everyone is willing to just toss aside the best rookie we have had in Houston since Yao Ming.

And I am dropping the hammer on perspective. He is a ROOKIE...his stats as a rookie compare to soooooo many players......

People that think he has peaked or this is all he will ever be, are forgetting that rookies improve.

Chase is going to improve a LOT !!!

Rudy Gay's stats per 48 minutes his rookie year:

19.3ppg 7.9rpg 2.3apg 3.2tpg

Chase Budinger's stats per 48 minutes his rookie year:

21.4ppg 7.2rpg 2.9apg 1.4tpg

MYTH BUSTER EXTRODINAIRE....DD !!!!



DD

[daywalker02]

why it has to be all bout bud with you?

[DaGreatest]

While the Rockets did not make the playoffs this year (we would never have made it far anyways), we have been given chance at lottery talent in the 14th pick of the draft. For this year's draft, various members of the organization have said that the chances we will remain at their current draft position is 50/50. With that being said, what are some of the possible move up/down scenarios come draft day?

I'll start:

(UP) Clippers #8 for Chase Budinger + Houston #14
This could be an option if both W. Johnson and Aminu are off the board for the Clippers who are in need of a SF for their roster. Giving up Chase seems like a deal breaker for the Rockets, but if someone likes G. Monroe slips, then it might be worth a shot to move up.

(DOWN) Oklahoma #21 & #26 for Houston #14
Our current draft position is a little awkward because after the first 2-3 talent tiers, the players in this draft that are projected to go from 15-25 have pretty much similar potential. This type of move down scenario could happen if none of the guys that we've targeted at 14 fall to us or we believe that we can draft the player that we like at #21 and get a bonus pick as well. For Oklahoma, they can move up to nab a front court player in a PF heavy class.

Moving away from draft thoughts, Morey's team building philosophy has been to accrue assets in talent and future draft picks until you find the right buyer and trade them in for the "all-in". I think that either this year or next, we'll see that all-in type of move.

Anyways, what do you guys think are potential trade up/down scenarios?


wtf? its always better to make the playoffs than not.. so i guess u are one whos ok with mediocrity, thats sad.. u contracdict ur belief and defeat the whole purpose of being in the lottery by movin back.. u trade further up with prospects such as Bud, JT/#14 etc not trading down, unless u come across a desperate GM THEN u take advantage of him with his pants down

[Raven]

I wouldnt trade budinger he has too much potential, especially not for the 8th pick.

Exactly. Why trade a player who's value is only going to increase?

.

[valorita]

Dude, if the thread is the same, I am dropping the knowledge....everyone is willing to just toss aside the best rookie we have had in Houston since Yao Ming.

And I am dropping the hammer on perspective. He is a ROOKIE...his stats as a rookie compare to soooooo many players......

People that think he has peaked or this is all he will ever be, are forgetting that rookies improve.

Chase is going to improve a LOT !!!

Rudy Gay's stats per 48 minutes his rookie year:

19.3ppg 7.9rpg 2.3apg 3.2tpg

Chase Budinger's stats per 48 minutes his rookie year:

21.4ppg 7.2rpg 2.9apg 1.4tpg

MYTH BUSTER EXTRODINAIRE....DD !!!!



DD

MYTHBUSTER EXTRAORDINAIRE!

Rookie year 12.3ppg 5.8rpg 0.7bpg 0.8 apg 1.49tpg per 24 min
with .477 fg%, .333 3p%, 0.825 ft%

= Channing Frye

tell me, what are his 48min adjusted avg?



I don't want this thread to be a chase thread. I was wanting to find out what other people thought would be viable options come draft day on moving up or down.

[rocketblaze]

If we trade with the Clippers, I would want DeAndre Jordan to be part of deal...

DeAndre Jordan
2010 8th pick

for

Chase Budinger
2010 14th pick
2011 NY Swap picks

--RB

[coachbadlee]

If we trade with the Clippers, I would want DeAndre Jordan to be part of deal...

DeAndre Jordan
2010 8th pick

for

Chase Budinger
2010 14th pick
2011 NY Swap picks

--RB
Who would you get with #8 or would you tr to continue trading up?

[ryano2009]

I wouldn't give up Chase for the # 8.

[jogo]

If the #8 would get Cousins, then I'd trade Budinger and #14 in a heartbeat. Budinger earned most of his stats against 2nd teams. He was not a starter.

I agree that Morey does not want to 1st rounders due to the guaranteed money. I see him trying to trade up and if not then just keeping #14. He might buy a second round pick because we don't have any.

[Raven]

If the #8 would get Cousins, then I'd trade Budinger and #14 in a heartbeat. Budinger earned most of his stats against 2nd teams. He was not a starter.

I agree that Morey does not want to 1st rounders due to the guaranteed money. I see him trying to trade up and if not then just keeping #14. He might buy a second round pick because we don't have any.

If Cousins was there, I don't think the 8th pick would even be on the table. The more I think about it, the more I believe Morey will try to trade into the top five or trade down to the second round.

.

[DaDakota]

why it has to be all bout bud with you?


It's not, but this thread was about possibly trading him to move up, so, figured I would join in.

As for respecting the ops wishes.

I think the Rockets will either pick at 14 or move down....mabye like the Donte Greene draft etc, where they pick up an extra 2nd by selecting someone others want.

DD

[REEKO_HTOWN]

In B4

Budinger is a young Ray Allen

Robbing Peter to pay Paul

AB is a top 5 Point Guard

[valorita]

If Cousins was there, I don't think the 8th pick would even be on the table. The more I think about it, the more I believe Morey will try to trade into the top five or trade down to the second round.

.


In regards to Cousins, I agree. I think we would have to move up to the Sac 5 spot because even the GSW 6 might be not enough.

I think it's kind of funny that with most of the other teams, we have a pretty good idea of who they like and who they might pick if they are available.
With Morey however, instead of narrowing down the possible candidates, he makes them infinitely greater by saying that we could move up or down the draft. I wonder what his IQ is.

[pbthunder]

In regards to Cousins, I agree. I think we would have to move up to the Sac 5 spot because even the GSW 6 might be not enough.

I think it's kind of funny that with most of the other teams, we have a pretty good idea of who they like and who they might pick if they are available.
With Morey however, instead of narrowing down the possible candidates, he makes them infinitely greater by saying that we could move up or down the draft. I wonder what his IQ is.

I don't know, but he went to MIT.

[smoothie]

there are a couple of teams looking at drafting bigs right ahead of the rockets (raptors, hornets, jazz).

the rockets might be able to trade up with a team like the clippers or pacers who are thinking of wing players or guards respectively.

either team can find good value at those positions at #14, and would be reaching for the players they want at #8 and #10. the rockets would leapfrog the teams looking for a big if they traded with either team. might only cost them the #14 and a future first (our own 2012?).

[Raven]

Another possibility, Morey trades our first round pick for a 2010 second round pick and a 2011 first round pick. That would give us 4 first round picks over the next 2 years, which would make it very easy for him to vulture a decent player, at the trade deadline, from a desperate general manager.

.

[coachbadlee]

Another possibility, Morey trades our first round pick for a 2010 second round pick and a 2011 first round pick. That would give us 4 first round picks over the next 2 years, which would make it very easy for him to vulture a decent player, at the trade deadline, from a desperate general manager.

.
That sounds like a Morey surprise. Sickens me to even think of that happening. :eek: :(

[Deuce]

LOL, well done.

In B4

Budinger is a young Ray Allen

Robbing Peter to pay Paul

AB is a top 5 Point Guard

[Houston_Rockets]

........I am dropping the knowledge.......


Dropping knowledge???

Let me see If I understood, you compare Chase Budinger to Rudy Gay, comparing rookies numbers, (Rudy is the player that after this free agency period will probably be the most overpaid player in the league, he will have a 13million plus per year deal, when In fact he is nothing more then an athletic wing, then when defended, gets totally owned, a typical fastbreak player, that struggles at half court offense), and then you say that you are not a Bosh believer because you think he doesn´t deserve the max contract???

I am the 1st fan to love Bundingers game, but cmon, let´s be b-ball critics and not player X or Y lovers, Budinger is a Nice player, he will be a guy like Ariza, athletic, can hit the 3 ball, with better slashing body control, with worst passing lane defense, he will never be a ball handler, his offense will come of other people, and that is not criticizing him at all, it is just his game, I actually think that he is going to be better then Gay, at least a more complete athlete, that could be 3rd option offensively, just like battier was with that corner 3, that make Battier look better offensively then he actually was

Pay Budinger decent numbers??? I am all for it, but comparing him to gay Is a mistake, because as I said before he will be the most overpaid player next year, and if the same happens to Budinger, we will inevitably be traded before his contract expires, and Morey sees that he is at his max market value, because as much as I love his game and talent I would not be able to pay 10 plus millions for him

And your argument that Bosh is going to be overpaid, and the you talk about gay??? Cmon man your better then that

PeAcE
(knowledgeable fan 2, muhahahahah :eek: :eek: :eek: )

[xiki]

Another possibility, Morey trades our first round pick for a 2010 second round pick and a 2011 first round pick. That would give us 4 first round picks over the next 2 years, which would make it very easy for him to vulture a decent player, at the trade deadline, from a desperate general manager.

.

Now, that is an interesting thought.

[xiki]

(Rudy is the player that after this free agency period will probably be the most overpaid player in the league...)

Two other possibilities in addition to Gay: Joe Johnson and...Amar'e.

[agentkirb87]

Exactly. Why trade a player who's value is only going to increase?

.

If he doesn't have a better season this year, his value will probably go down. Right now he's a relatively young player that had a solid rookie season.

I'm not saying he won't have a better season, but everyone is banking on that happening... including other teams, which is mostly the reason why his value is as high as it is right now.

[opticon]

Another possibility, Morey trades our first round pick for a 2010 second round pick and a 2011 first round pick. That would give us 4 first round picks over the next 2 years, which would make it very easy for him to vulture a decent player, at the trade deadline, from a desperate general manager.

.

We have a winner!! That move is so Morey. Picks are going to very valuable after the new CBA is reached. Teams are going to have less cap flexibility simply because of there being less cap to use. When you cant go out willy nilly and sign free agents the next best way to rebuild is through the draft.

[Spacemoth]

My reaction to this thread was that the OP didn't understand the value of draft picks. Right now is the time at which it's most difficult to pry them loose because GM's can see the faces of the prospects that those picks represent. Really their value could never be higher, even though the liquidity of the situation reaches its peak on draft night for many reasons; organizations become attached to the players they select, and it's easier to trade "any player remaining out of those unpicked" over a guy set in stone.

So long story short, no matter how much you value him, it's gonna take more than Budinger to move from 14 to 8. Likewise it's gonna take more than 21+26 to get to 14. If you know anything about the NFL value scale of draft picks, try to reference that.

And to no surprise, the primary response from readers has been to argue that Budinger is TOO MUCH lol. Oh well what can you do with homerism.

[roslolian]

Because I believe that Budinger's ceiling is about the current level of Rudy Gay~ an athletic scorer that would be a 3rd option on a contending team.
If a guy that has potential to be a 2nd best option is available at 8, would you trade up? That is my point.
As for Chase's potential, I'm sure we all differ somewhat, but I don't think many of us truly believe he will be more than a fringe all-star player at his best.

How is his ceiling the current level of Rudy Gay? It may not seem that way but C-bud in his rookie year is ALREADY BETTER THAN CURRENT Rudy Gay. Its just C-bud's minutes are reduced while Gay has a lot of PT to inflate his stats. I guess Gay might be a bit better offensively but C-bud more than makes up for it by being better defensively.

See this is my problem with this. In your own words, we currently have the 14th pick and a third option on a contending team. You're gonna give those two up just to get a possible 2nd option on a contending team. Two assets just to move one step up? I'm not sure having a possible 2nd option is better than a possible 2/3rd option and a sure-fire 3rd option. Who knows, someone like Whiteside might actually be better than what we think.

[REEKO_HTOWN]

We have a winner!! That move is so Morey. Picks are going to very valuable after the new CBA is reached. Teams are going to have less cap flexibility simply because of there being less cap to use. When you cant go out willy nilly and sign free agents the next best way to rebuild is through the draft.

But next years draft is expected to be awful because of all the freshmen who are flooding this draft. This draft is strong because next year's will be weak.

[asmith8266]

Option 1: Draft Ekpe Udoh
Option 2: Do Option 1

[Yetti]

I would give up Chase in a Bosh deal, not for the draft. We should secure the services of Scola before making a trade of any of our major units ie Hill/Chase.
Players which we need to include in a trade, especially if getting Bosh and a quality Back up Center- Battier Hayes Jefferies, Andersen. :p

[valorita]

How is his ceiling the current level of Rudy Gay? It may not seem that way but C-bud in his rookie year is ALREADY BETTER THAN CURRENT Rudy Gay. Its just C-bud's minutes are reduced while Gay has a lot of PT to inflate his stats. I guess Gay might be a bit better offensively but C-bud more than makes up for it by being better defensively.

See this is my problem with this. In your own words, we currently have the 14th pick and a third option on a contending team. You're gonna give those two up just to get a possible 2nd option on a contending team. Two assets just to move one step up? I'm not sure having a possible 2nd option is better than a possible 2/3rd option and a sure-fire 3rd option. Who knows, someone like Whiteside might actually be better than what we think.


Ok. According to your evaluation, C-bud is already better than current Gay. You're telling me that if salary wasn't an issue and both players got the same amount, you wouldn't trade Cbud for Gay? :rolleyes:
More importantly, what would Morey do in that scenario?

In my own words, I said that Bud's ceiling, which means that if he ever maximizes his full potential, will turn out to be a 3rd option. READ! He is not that now and there is no guarantee that he will get there. Also, the 14th pick is not about the number 14. It's about the talent level that is available at that pick.
The NBA, neh, the world is all run on the pyramid principle. For example, you have 500 players in the NBA. Out of those 500, 200 might be players who get significant minutes. Of those 200, 100 might be what we consider tier 3 players. This trend goes on to 50 tier 2 and 10 tier 1.
For anybody to move up from a tier, you have to over pay. Two avg NBA player will not get you a tier 2 lvl talent in most cases.
To simply for you, to get a player that is 10% better, you often have to pay much more than 10% in both salary and trade bait. That is the rule of demand and a fact of life.

A possible 2nd option is a risk I know. But if every trade was a no-brainer like the Gasol heist, then we might as well hire you as the GM. :o If there is a possibility of getting that type of player for two possible tier 3 players, then you really have to consider your options.

[valorita]

My reaction to this thread was that the OP didn't understand the value of draft picks. Right now is the time at which it's most difficult to pry them loose because GM's can see the faces of the prospects that those picks represent. Really their value could never be higher, even though the liquidity of the situation reaches its peak on draft night for many reasons; organizations become attached to the players they select, and it's easier to trade "any player remaining out of those unpicked" over a guy set in stone.

So long story short, no matter how much you value him, it's gonna take more than Budinger to move from 14 to 8. Likewise it's gonna take more than 21+26 to get to 14. If you know anything about the NFL value scale of draft picks, try to reference that.

And to no surprise, the primary response from readers has been to argue that Budinger is TOO MUCH lol. Oh well what can you do with homerism.


2007 - #8 pick Brandan Wright traded by Charlotte to Golden State Warriors for Jason Richardson and #36 pick

2006 - Memphis acquires the Draft rights to Rudy Gay (#8) and Stromile Swift for Shane Battier.

I also think that 21+26 might be a little cheap, so maybe a 15+37 might be better value.