Joey Dorsey: just a summer league superstar?

[hoyarocketsfan]

I was wondering if anyone else is concerned that Dorsey might just turn out to be a so-called summer league superstars, where he puts up big numbers but it doesn't translate to the season (feign and david thorpe have discussed this in general i dont think specifically about dorsey)

I'm on the fence but had a couple reasons for concern after watching the games

1. offensively it worries me that he hasn't overpowered people at the rim. he has done some rim-rattling stuff when wide open, but he is getting fouled a lot around the rim and not powering through or getting stripped early. against bigger, better players who get more calls than summer league no names, this difficulty catching and dunking could make him a hayes-like black-hole. he's also not known to be much of a free throw shooter.

2. he talked a lot in video interviews before the summer league that he would help the team by running the floor as a big, and this excited me. either our competition has been really fast, or he has a higher estimation of his speed than he should. i haven't really seen him "run the floor" much at all.

3. it's great that he is rebounding so well, but he did this last year (13 and 14 in his two games i think). he's a big strong guy and the summer league competition (especially the teams we have played) is mostly smaller guys. he also gets a lot of juwan howard rebounds (when a player steals a wide open rebound from a guard on his team) because the team seems to know he wants them.

I love the summer league, and I don't say this to be a downer. I just think what we are seeing from Taylor and Budinger is a whole lot more promising than a ton of rebounds against small people. I like Dorsey a lot though, so I want to be convinced otherwise. What do you see that I don't?

[aussie rocket]

Since it sounds like Dorsey is a solid rebounder but still very unpolished on offense, I would say your concerns are highly founded good Sir.

[Rocketfanatic2]

Well, I do see your point clearly and you have good reason to believe that he might be a fluke. But, with that being said, during the last game , I kept an eye on him, and it looks like he knows the forms of rebounding. I only saw him box out good a few times, but at least we know that it is in him. He has the ability to keep progressing to where he can be a key player for our roster, but he must keep practicing and practicing.

[Rocket86]

The quality of competition must be of importance too. Doing well in the summer leagues is a start but it does not mean that they can bring that success in the regular season. Its too early to label Dorsey a good or bad player. Come preseason, we might see a glimpse ( not a sure thing in the pre season, remember Cato ) of what he really is.

[BrooksBall]

He has incredibly high basketball IQ.

Oh, wait...

[Rocket86]

He has incredibly high basketball IQ.

Oh, wait...


For what! :D :D :D

[HTown_TMac]

For what! :D :D :D

His IQ was the same as Dorseys at the time. Wait a little longer and he will get back on subject

[saleem]

Joey will get better,mostly on defense. He does need to finish strongly around the rim,but he will have problems scoring against defenses. He doesn't have the low post footwork or moves down low,to get it done. A good role player who can play well within his limitations is what I see from him in the future.

[knote32]

Chase Budinger is a more "Summer League esque star" imo....

We always have a white guy that can shoot the ball fill it up...

[Egghead]

Chase Budinger is a more "Summer League esque star" imo....

We always have a white guy that can shoot the ball fill it up...

we never had a white guy who was as athletic as Budinger

[ReD_1]

When you say summer league superstar, first thing which comes in to my mind is Marco Bellineli and Donte Green.

I don't think Joey is that type of player, he really works hards and hustles all around the court.

[aussie rocket]

we never had a white guy who was as athletic as Budinger


Bring back the WBSS !!

[Rocket86]

When you say summer league superstar, first thing which comes in to my mind is Marco Bellineli and Donte Green.

I don't think Joey is that type of player, he really works hards and hustles all around the court.

Being a superstar in the summer leagues does not mean anything until they prove their worth in the regular season. Landry did not have a stellar summer league but ended up as a solid contributor in the games that matter. There is still hope for Dorsey. He can still be a good role player.

[AzNaNsZ]

Originally Posted by ReD_1
When you say summer league superstar, first thing which comes in to my mind is Marco Bellineli and Donte Green.

I don't think Joey is that type of player, he really works hards and hustles all around the court.

I think summer league stars are reserved for the guards, remember John Lucas III lighting up the summer league look where he is now

But i think Joey is doing the right thing now because we need him to be a force on defense with Yao likely out for the season

[h0m3t0wnh3r0]

i like him. when i look at him, i think... big ben wallace(ish)...definately could use a chris webber(ish) type player with adelmans system though! oh well, we'll take what we can get. :p

[Mathloom]

we never had a white guy who was as athletic as Budinger

We've said this about Langhi, Spanoulis and Novak.

It's not his athleticism that will stand out, although he is a better than average athlete (which is rare for people with his skill set). It's his shooting, passing and his off the ball movement that will allow him to succeed.

He needs to work on defense and handling, though historically, players with his skillset will never be better than average at these things. Perhaps he will improve, but the odds are against him and he hasn't shown anything so far (just 3 games) to say that he will buck that trend.

One promising thing is that he seems to have a frame that can support added strength in the form of lean muscle. That should help his finishing and defense.

I think he can be a solid rotation player within 2 years and has the potential to be the 5th best starter on a championship team when he's in his prime.

[Cam_Bron_James]

I noticed Brad Newley was 0-4 from the field, but did have 3 boards and 3 dimes in 14 minutes of play?.....Should we eventually get him over here????

[Old Man Rock]

We've said this about Langhi, Spanoulis and Novak.

I wished Novak and langhi had Budingers athleticism. As for Spanoulis he was athletic but Van Gundy hated from the beginning because he was CD's decision.

[Chamillionaire]

as of now, he's not going to be in the rotation IMO, he's a liability on the offensive side of the court and really isn't of a upgrade over hayes.

[spaceage808]

he is getting it done on the glass but I think he's far from a summer league super star.

[napalm_black]

Hahaha "Juwan Howard Rebounds"... classic!

[machine]

he is getting it done on the glass but I think he's far from a summer league super star.

this^^

[VooDooPope]

I'm taking a wait and see approach.

After not being able to sniff the court last season I'm skeptical but you never know, especially with the injury to Yao and Deke (not that he'd be back anyway) and our lack of depth at the Center spot.

I'd say best case for this year he's 10th or 11th player on the chart and good against teams where we need an extra 6 fouls on their bigs.

Lack of BBIQ and offensive skills will keep him from much more than that I'm afraid.

Prove me wrong Dorsey!!!

[mi0304]

Joey Dorsey: Not a superstar even in summer league

[DieHard Rocket]

Summer League All-Star Team:

PG: John Lucas
SG: Dan Langhi
SF: Steve Novak
PF: Malick Badiane
C: Joey Dorsey

I don't know why people get worked up over summer league...it's fun, but by no means does it translate to any success in the regular season.

[Spacemoth]

Here's the troubling stat for me:

Chuck Hayes: 6' 5.5" w/o shoes 6' 6.75" w/ shoes 6'10" wingspan
Joey Dorsey: 6' 6.25" w/o shoes 6' 7.25" w/ shoes 7'1.75" wingspan
Trevor Ariza: 6' 7" w/o shoes 6' 8.25" w/ shoes 7' 2" wingspan
Shane Battier: 6' 8.25" w/o shoes 6' 9.5" w/ shoes 6' 10.5" wingspan
Luis Scola: 6'9" w/ shoes (never measured in a pre-draft camp)

All possible centers on our team this year are on track to be the fourth-tallest player in our starting lineup!

[The_Yoyo]

I'm on the fence but had a couple reasons for concern after watching the games

1. offensively it worries me that he hasn't overpowered people at the rim. he has done some rim-rattling stuff when wide open, but he is getting fouled a lot around the rim and not powering through or getting stripped early. against bigger, better players who get more calls than summer league no names, this difficulty catching and dunking could make him a hayes-like black-hole. he's also not known to be much of a free throw shooter.

2. he talked a lot in video interviews before the summer league that he would help the team by running the floor as a big, and this excited me. either our competition has been really fast, or he has a higher estimation of his speed than he should. i haven't really seen him "run the floor" much at all.

3. it's great that he is rebounding so well, but he did this last year (13 and 14 in his two games i think). he's a big strong guy and the summer league competition (especially the teams we have played) is mostly smaller guys. he also gets a lot of juwan howard rebounds (when a player steals a wide open rebound from a guard on his team) because the team seems to know he wants them.

I love the summer league, and I don't say this to be a downer. I just think what we are seeing from Taylor and Budinger is a whole lot more promising than a ton of rebounds against small people. I like Dorsey a lot though, so I want to be convinced otherwise. What do you see that I don't?

Hmm I'll tackle these points one by one

1. Dorsey has never been an offensive player I believe his career PPG at memphis was around 6-7 points per game, many of those came off of dunks and put backs. That Memphis team relied on others to score and you can do that in the college game, not necessarily in the nba. Dorsey has improved in some areas but you do not go from having no offensive game to having an NBA level offensive game in one season. If you think about it many of these nba players have been playing basketball for years and working on their offensive game I wouldnt be surprised at all if Joey worked very little on offense at Memphis. I am not sure what you expected of him when it came to offense. His free throw shooting has improved though, quite a bit he changed his entire shooting motion so he is putting in the hard work that is needed to improve his game. I dont think Joey will ever be more than a 8-10ppg scorer in the NBA and thats on the generous side.

2. He has been running the floor but a lot of times he is the guy getting the rebound is furthest away from the basket. Whenever the guards got the rebound he would run down, but at least in the first 3 games you can run the floor all day and night but if the guards do not pass you the ball then its pointless, also running the floor to establish low post position wouldnt work for him either since he has little to no offensive game. There were times when he did run the floor and could have gotten a pass for a layup/dunk but the pass was never made the PGs on the rockets summer league team hardly look up for the quick score.

A lot of this could have been because whenever Joey was in the game the team would run more half court sets on purpose using him as the screener/rub man in the high post. When gaines/watkins/benson was in the team would abandon the half courts more so they were more of a transition team. This was not because of Joey's lack of wanting to run the floor but because he actually knew the offense better than the other centers (he was with the team for a year) and it was good experience for him and the rookies to run a half court offense.


3. the teams we played do NOT have smaller guys I do not know where you get that from. Joey has been overmatched on defense every single game he is 6'9 and is still out rebounding these guys like crazy.

the Warriors team had Davidson start he is 6'10 and Randolph who is closer to 7 feet now. Joey outweighs them both but both are athletic guys who are tall.

The mavs team had Aboya and Nivin's both of whom are about the same size as Dorsey around 6'9, 6'10


the wolves team had a guy that was about 7 foot 300 pounds that was just throwing joey around underneath but he still got all those rebounds. Joey hardly got any "juwan" rebounds a lot of his rebounds were in traffic where he was going up against 2 guys but he we would still come away with the ball. He got the most rebounds by far on the team not because the other guys decided to let him have boards but mainly because the other guys were not decent rebounders and were getting killed themselves by bigger people.


The main rotation players for the rockets in the front court were all around 6'7 to 6'9. Joey was having to clean up for their lack of rebounding as well.

I am not trying to put you down but I have no clue where you are getting this idea that Dorsey was not working hard for his rebounds or that he was stealing rebounds from teammates..maybe 1-2 per game at most since that usually occurs but the most part he was being man down there either going up against bigger guys or multiple guys on the defensive glass.



Daryl Morey even said that the team's rebounding and paint presence disappears when Dorsey goes to the bench...There is a reason why the other centers on the team hardly play because while they are taller than joey they dont play defense bigger than him.

[Rocket86]

Here's the troubling stat for me:

Chuck Hayes: 6' 5.5" w/o shoes 6' 6.75" w/ shoes 6'10" wingspan
Joey Dorsey: 6' 6.25" w/o shoes 6' 7.25" w/ shoes 7'1.75" wingspan
Trevor Ariza: 6' 7" w/o shoes 6' 8.25" w/ shoes 7' 2" wingspan
Shane Battier: 6' 8.25" w/o shoes 6' 9.5" w/ shoes 6' 10.5" wingspan
Luis Scola: 6'9" w/ shoes (never measured in a pre-draft camp)

All possible centers on our team this year are on track to be the fourth-tallest player in our starting lineup!

This is why the most immediate need is a center. Morey has said that He will get the team's center via trade. There are 3 more months till the start of the training camp so there is still time to get that prestigious center, :D

[hoyarocketsfan]

Hmm I'll tackle these points one by one

I am not trying to put you down but I have no clue where you are getting this idea that Dorsey was not working hard for his rebounds or that he was stealing rebounds from teammates..maybe 1-2 per game at most since that usually occurs but the most part he was being man down there either going up against bigger guys or multiple guys on the defensive glass.



Daryl Morey even said that the team's rebounding and paint presence disappears when Dorsey goes to the bench...There is a reason why the other centers on the team hardly play because while they are taller than joey they dont play defense bigger than him.


I don't think I questioned his effort ever. I just get the definite impression from the games that the team is differing to him in the paint to get boards. Obviously you don't get 14 rebounds a game because they just fall to you, and I'm not doubting his strength and rebounding efforts.

I just think a huge difference between the summer league and NBA is people are there working on specific things, not trying to win first. Dorsey, defensively, is clearly focused on rebounding. It does not seem that many other players on the team, especially ones on the floor with Dorsey, have this focus. I think that is part of why Morey said this about the paint presence going away.

Morey has talked before about how he doesnt think just defensive or offensive rebounds are good stats because you are very often getting a rebound from a teammate not necessarily the other team so he measures other things. I would think that is especially true here when the competition from teammates is diminished.

I do think it is great that he can get rebounds over bigger guys, but at his height and position he would have to or he'd be useless. We knew this already about him. My point is, this isn't a step forward in rebounding for him. He did this last year, and coaches agreed he wasn't ready to contribute. Nobody is arguing he isn't a good rebounder.

I'm just saying I dont think 13 in the summer league when your basically the only good rebounder on your team means you are going to do anywhere near that in the NBA. He might. I hope he does. I'm just not taking the summer league as much of an indicator or sign of improvement.

[D-rock]

Are the Rockets in the market for a center to complement Dorsey, or replace him?


A guy like Gortat would be doing the same things as Dorsey, while Andersen would even be able to play alongside Dorsey (their games compliment one another's so well). Obviously the Rockets are looking for more length at the 5, but what else?

[megastahr]

anyone have any clips from joey from the summer leauge?

[kenwonobi]

Rebounds in any league that high are still rebounds. Minus alot of fouls. Granted he gives you the occasional bad foul, but I dont think he will be in the game in the late fourth quarter anyways with his free throw issues. I think he would be a better offensively skilled Hayes with more rebounds less steals and more blocks but overall less a defensive presence of Hayes. However we may be able to guard more people than Hayes because he is taller, longer, stronger, more physical, and more athletic. That is what we will need if we dont have a 7 footer to go against the bigger Centers. Also if Hayes misses 5 layups a game I am sure people will want to see Dorsey in the game with a chance to dunk the ball instead. ;)

[rockbox]

I said this last year. Dorsey has a NBA body. He is a man among boys in the summer league. The question is if he can be productive when everyone is as big and strong as him.

[Blake]

we never had a white guy who was as athletic as Budinger

Bob Sura disagrees

[Shroopy2]

Bob Sura disagrees
Sura or Barry PRE Rockets for sure

Boki Nachbar was pretty athletic

[BetterThanEver]

we never had a white guy who was as athletic as Budinger

What about RudyT?

[T-Slack]

When Dorsey was drafted, the "experts" were calling Doresy a Ben Wallace clone. IF thats was the case then the rockets knew what they were getting, so I dunno why they keep trying to make him get better on offense when wallance never was at it. Ben when he was in his prime and didn't tank after he got his payday, averaged like 30 -35 mins. Anybody averageing those kind of mins can average 6- 10 points a game. So if the Rockets think Dorsey can produce while playing only 10 15 mins a game then, they are mistaken. Dorsey excels at two things. Rebounding and blocks.