[CBS Sports] Mavs Working Out Sign-and-Trade with Toronto for Marion

[OrangeRowdy95]

http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/15924818

The Dallas Mavericks, who have agreed to bring Jason Kidd back with a three-year, $25 million deal, are trying to work out a sign-and-trade with Toronto for Shawn Marion, CBSSports.com has learned.

The deal could provide an alternative for the Raptors to renouncing Marion's rights in a bid to clear cap space for its addition of Hedo Turkoglu. But sign-and-trades are particularly complicated, especially in this case, because Toronto is reluctant to take back salary, a person familiar with the situation said.

When the Raptors got a verbal agreement from Turkoglu, who reneged on a commitment to the Trail Blazers, it was contingent on Toronto GM Bryan Colangelo making several roster moves to make room for the five-year, $53 million contract Turkoglu is eligible to sign on Wednesday. The simplest scenario is to renounce the rights to Marion, Carlos Delfino, and Anthony Parker. But a sign-and-trade -- particularly for Marion, who still has some value -- also would be a palatable option as long as it doesn't complicate the Turkoglu signing. At this point, the source cautioned, the talks are stuck on the issue of how much salary Toronto would have to take back and the deal "may or may not happen."

[emjohn]

As the arms race escalates, the more inclined I am to see the Rockets become sellers and rebuild from scratch.

[BimaThug]

Wow . . . just, wow. This could be an absolute coup for the Mavericks.

The only way I see this getting done is if Marion is signed-and-traded to the Mavs for Jerry Stackhouse's partially guaranteed contract (along with cash and a future pick). Stackhouse is slated to make over $7M next season (hence, the ability to sign-and-trade Marion to anything close to what he'd want), but only $2M of that salary is guaranteed. This is the closest the Raptors can come to "not taking back salary".

The hang-up with this deal, however, is that the resulting $2M less in cap space the Raptors have to sign Turkoglu will end up costing Hedo as much as $11,733,201.92 over the life of his 5-year deal with Toronto.

Somehow, I don't see Hedo agreeing to this. Toronto may be a nicer city than Portland to live in if you're Turkish, but it ain't $11.7M+ nicer.

[Stevierebel]

STEIN_LINE_HQ Mavericks offering up their Jerry Stackhouse chip in a sign-and-trade for Shawn Marion.

http://bit.ly/tNFC

[Mango]

Perhaps Memphis could make some money for handling the paperwork on Stackhouse's contract.

[BimaThug]

Wow . . . just, wow. This could be an absolute coup for the Mavericks.

The only way I see this getting done is if Marion is signed-and-traded to the Mavs for Jerry Stackhouse's partially guaranteed contract (along with cash and a future pick). Stackhouse is slated to make over $7M next season (hence, the ability to sign-and-trade Marion to anything close to what he'd want), but only $2M of that salary is guaranteed. This is the closest the Raptors can come to "not taking back salary".

The hang-up with this deal, however, is that the resulting $2M less in cap space the Raptors have to sign Turkoglu will end up costing Hedo as much as $11,733,201.92 over the life of his 5-year deal with Toronto.

Somehow, I don't see Hedo agreeing to this. Toronto may be a nicer city than Portland to live in if you're Turkish, but it ain't $11.7M+ nicer.
Oops. Forgot that annual raises don't compound. So this S&T would "only" cost Turkoglu $11.6M off the value of his total contract. I still don't see him and his agent agreeing to this. If the Raptors follow through with this S&T, Portland may want to dust off that contract offer for Hedo.

[baller4life315]

I called this back in March. But anyway, this could make the Mavericks SERIOUS. I don't know if it puts them in the same boat as the Lakers or Spurs but Marion is absolutely lethal when surrounded by stars in the "team garbageman" role.

Ugghhhh.....the Ponies getting better while we're rolling around in the mud getting stomped on. Enough to make you sick.

[NIKEstrad]

Perhaps Memphis could make some money for handling the paperwork on Stackhouse's contract.

Exactly. Or a team could take a guy like Roko Ukic or Patrick O'Bryant off their books using, say, a $2m trade exception. The Rockets, for instance, could do that.

[v3.0]

Great deal for mavs if it's not crazy money. He'll be great for matchups against the nuggets, lakers, blazers, hell most of the West playoff teams. He can cover 2, 3, and 4's depending on who it is, alleviating Dirk of getting roasted on D.

Cuban wants a serious title push in the next few years in the Nowitzki era, Dirk can become a free agent after 2011. Resigned Kidd, signed Gortat, and now wants Marion.

[kaleidosky]

Oops. Forgot that annual raises don't compound. So this S&T would "only" cost Turkoglu $11.6M off the value of his total contract. I still don't see him and his agent agreeing to this. If the Raptors follow through with this S&T, Portland may want to dust off that contract offer for Hedo.

good call on what it would cost hedo. Although couldn't the raptors sign marion to a deal and then include Patrick O'Bryant or Kris Humphries (adding up to 7.975 mil--that's the max if it's a 10% leeway on stack's salary)?

Then they are cutting 1.62 or 3.2 mil out of their books, giving them that room still to sign Hedo--to a slightly lesser deal if it's O'Bryant, or the same deal as before if it's Humphries

[ThrillaNManilla]

Somehow, I don't see Hedo agreeing to this. Toronto may be a nicer city than Portland to live in if you're Turkish, but it ain't $11.7M+ nicer.

First off, I live in S.E. Portland. Most players who live in Oregon reside in cities like West Linn, or Lake Oswego. These cities are wealthy, small towns a little ways outside of Portland.

[Mango]

Exactly. Or a team could take a guy like Roko Ukic or Patrick O'Bryant off their books using, say, a $2m trade exception. The Rockets, for instance, could do that.

I would expect Marion to be dealt to the Mavs because Dallas has enough time to work the phones and push salary numbers around in spreadsheets to find a solution.

[Spacemoth]

Honestly I don't see how this is any different from the Mavericks' previous strategies of the past five years. Trying to become the Yankees of the NBA by acquiring aging veteran talent on the downside of their careers didn't work in baseball, and it won't work in basketball. The Mavs will only go as far as Dirk takes them, and at his extreme peak he was still not enough for them to win it all. Mark Cuban is a laughable owner of a baseball ERR basketball franchise. I guess it's all that repressed frustration at not being able to get the Cubs coming out.

[purplefever]

The idea isn't to do Marion for Stackhouse straight up, since that actually adds $2 mil to Toronto's payroll.

It would have to be a multi-player thing where Toronto includes either Marcus Banks or Kris Humphries with Marion, which would mean the addition of someone like Antoine Wright or Devean George from Dallas, who get flipped elsewhere. Toronto would then have an overall reduction in payroll making room for not only Turkoglu, but also Carlos Delfino or Linus Klieza.

Further, teams like Memphis or OKC could actually take a guy like Humphries and $3 mil cash, making hm a free player for the season.

Orlando has said they don't want to do a S&T for Marion in any way - but that's not to say they wouldn't do something that maybe brigs them Anthony Parker and Devean George - two good depth guys. Toronto would then only need $4~5 mil in capspace to absorb Turkoglu, which would allow them to retain the MLE as well.

Orlando has only the MLE and minimum deals to add players, but if they could pluck a coupel of cheaper guys from other teams (Wright, George, etc) they might be of more value than FAs available. It's in their interest to at least listen to offers.

[BimaThug]

First off, I live in S.E. Portland. Most players who live in Oregon reside in cities like West Linn, or Lake Oswego. These cities are wealthy, small towns a little ways outside of Portland.
My comment was not intended to be a knock on the Greater Portland area. It was more a reference to Toronto being a much more international city with a large Turkish population. Objectively speaking, Toronto is one of the world's most international cities. For instance, Hakeem signed with the Raptors primarily due to his love of the city and its prominent Muslim population.

[Rocket86]

The Raptors are trying to cut down and make space for Hedo. Why would they want take back salaries just to give in to the needs of the Mavs. I do not see it happening.

[Asian Sensation]

First off, I live in S.E. Portland. Most players who live in Oregon reside in cities like West Linn, or Lake Oswego. These cities are wealthy, small towns a little ways outside of Portland.

Cool. Another Rockets fan in Portland!

If the Mavs get Marion and Gortat they're a legit team again and I take back my statements that Kidd's contract is too much from the other thread. They basically have a 1-2 year window to win a Chip and I'd say there chances are as good as any other elite team i.e Lakers, Spurs, Cavs, Magic, Celtics. Nice job by Cuban.

Ughh **** DALLAS!

[A_3PO]

The Raptors are trying to cut down and make space for Hedo. Why would they want take back salaries just to give in to the needs of the Mavs. I do not see it happening.
I think they take back non-guaranteed salaries.

[Rocket86]

I think they take back non-guaranteed salaries.

Who are they? ( non-guaranteed salaries ) I believe the Mavs wants to get rid of Stackhouse and Dampier. The article says that the Raptors are reluctant to take back salaries.

[Asian Sensation]

Kidd
Howard
Marion
Dirk
Gortat

J. Terry 6th man of the year again. Barrea can run the Mavs offense. Bass is an energy/garbage man that gets boards and easy buckets like Landry. Hollins and Damp are serviceable big bodies. Devean George another veteran that brings championship experience.

Damn that's a nice roster.

[shortfuse3]

mavs look stacked again just like in 2006, if it werent for the Lakers, they might be the favorites.

[sbyang]

Who are they? ( non-guaranteed salaries ) I believe the Mavs wants to get rid of Stackhouse and Dampier. The article says that the Raptors are reluctant to take back salaries.

Stackhouse is only guaranteed 2 mil of his 7 mil salary. The Mavs would most likely give Toronto 3 mil in cash considerations to make it worth Toronto's while, they'll probably give Toronto a 1st rounder or 2 as well.

[Gimmmethemike]

Wow if the Mavs get Marion, most definitely the can compete with a healthy L.A Fakers squad...

[Ziggy]

A Howard/Marion/Terry/Wright swing rotation is right up there with San Antonio's. They add Gortat and I will be impressed. The west will be so stacked its gonna wind up a paper/rock/scissor conference.

For example Portland will be able to beat LA but not SA, Dallas can beat SA but not LA, Denver can beat Portland but not SA, etc... all hypothetical. Just saying it will be close. Depending on injuries.

[mic]

I hope the Mavs don't get Marion. Man, the west is getting crazier than it already was.

[HTR99]

Kidd
Howard
Marion
Dirk
Gortat

J. Terry 6th man of the year again. Barrea can run the Mavs offense. Bass is an energy/garbage man that gets boards and easy buckets like Landry. Hollins and Damp are serviceable big bodies. Devean George another veteran that brings championship experience.

Damn that's a nice roster.

With that starting lineup, I just don't see how their better. MLE money usually indicates a starting role which would be the case for Marion in the scenario you showed. However, aren't Howard and Marion similar players and doesn't this tandem unfulfill the Mavs' yearly need of a SG since they let Finley go?

[Ziggy]

With that starting lineup, I just don't see how their better. MLE money usually indicates a starting role which would be the case for Marion in the scenario you showed. However, aren't Howard and Marion similar players and doesn't this tandem unfulfill the Mavs' yearly need of a SG since they let Finley go?
Howard can play SG and they have Terry. A wing is a wing.

[RayStats34]

I called this back in March. But anyway, this could make the Mavericks SERIOUS. I don't know if it puts them in the same boat as the Lakers or Spurs but Marion is absolutely lethal when surrounded by stars in the "team garbageman" role.

Ugghhhh.....the Ponies getting better while we're rolling around in the mud getting stomped on. Enough to make you sick.

Marion is old now. The Marion you are referring to is the one from a few years ago

[BimaThug]

Marion is old now. The Marion you are referring to is the one from a few years ago
Shawn Marion is only 31 years old. And he'll be playing alongside Jason Kidd. Remember the last time Marion played with a great playmaking PG?

[JuanValdez]

So, we're saying Toronto will sign Marion to trade him away for a player they can cut -- instead of just letting Marion go? And, to do this and not take on more salary, they might have to give up one of their other players they wouldn't otherwise give up if they just let Marion go? This doesn't sound promising on the Toronto side. What can Dallas give them to compensate for this? A pick at the end of the first round and $3 million? SPLASH!

[NIKEstrad]

So, we're saying Toronto will sign Marion to trade him away for a player they can cut -- instead of just letting Marion go? And, to do this and not take on more salary, they might have to give up one of their other players they wouldn't otherwise give up if they just let Marion go? This doesn't sound promising on the Toronto side. What can Dallas give them to compensate for this? A pick at the end of the first round and $3 million? SPLASH!

If you were the Raptors, you wouldn't trade Patrick O'Bryant for a first round pick?