The Rockets will make all their major moves before training camp. Here's why.

[Raven]

OK, Morey will want to retool the roster before the regular season begins, and here's why. Say that they wait until the trade deadline to acquire their final piece, the problem is that they'll have no way of knowing if the new piece fits until after the deadline has passed, so that means no mulligan.

But if the Rockets make their major moves before the season starts, they have several months to see if the changes work, and they can make more deals at the deadline if they're unhappy with the results of the first trade, so a deal before training camp gives them a second chance to tweak the roster later, but a trade at the deadline gives them no second chances.

This is why most of the big changes will happen before camp begins, and this explains why Morey is shopping Tracy now, because he'll want a chance to see how the new players fit, so he can make further changes if necessary.

[RV6]

i disagree completely....not only did Morey come out and say he's NOT shopping tmac, but they made a big move last year the trade deadline and they had time to re-adjust......you can't force moves, if they are there u can take them, if they're not you cant...if a big move they like is available this usmmer they'll take it, if it's there in Feb they'll take it then...they're not going to be worried about second chances if a favorable move is on the table.

It actually makes more sense NOT to trade tmac yet, this ways they give him a second chance, which gives the team another second chance at the tmac experiment before deciding if they want him for the whole season...

[Raven]

i disagree completely....not only did Morey come out and say he's NOT shopping tmac, but they made a big move last year the trade deadline and they had time to re-adjust......you can't force moves, if they are there u can take them, if they're not you cant...if a big move they like is available this usmmer they'll take it, if it's there in Feb they'll take it then...they're not going to be worried about second chances if a favorable move is on the table.

It actually makes more sense NOT to trade tmac yet, this ways they give him a second chance, which gives the team another second chance at the tmac experiment before deciding if they want him for the whole season...


There can't be a second chance for Tracy, because he's going to miss most of the first half due to his surgery, and there will be little or no time to see how we'll he's recovered before the trade deadline has passed.

[Francis3422]

Raven- I agree that we are trying to and should be trying to expedite him as soon as possible.


Anyone that thinks just becaue DM dodges a question or does not come out and say "Yes, we are trying to get rid of Tracy" means that we are not trading him or trying to trade him is crazy.

Daryl Morey answers the questions in a political manner.

[mugrakers]

haha offseason fodder... a lot of things will be put to rest on draft night. Let's just wait a few more days?

[rocketsmetalspd]

This makes sense since having the team ready for the start of the season will be key to having HCA throughout the playoffs. The team needs to start off with players that will be ready to play on the first day of the season and not have any distractions of having a player out till he is ready to play. No more excuses. I can't wait to see what moves Morey makes before the start of the season and it all begins next Thursday. :)

[johnkamla]

I agree completely with RV6. DM is a pretty straight up guy. He's always looking to improve the roster - thus his comment that they're listening to all offers that don't include Yao. Besides, McGrady could get back as early as training camp so why not see how he does? A rehabbed McGrady is worth a lot more to the Rockets and prospective trading partners than a still rehabbing one.

I for one would love to see our team with a fully healthy McGrady integrated into the team that beat Portland in the first round. Say bye-bye to that ridiculous fronting strategy.

[Hayesfan]

Daryl is about perceived and actual value... a lot of the time, as he has mentioned in the past, you get the best value at the deadline rather than before the season.

By that time teams have given up or feel they are just one piece away and so player values are inflated.

I don't think you are necessarily all wrong, but I don't feel like everything will be settled before camp.

[Rocket86]

One thing for sure, The Rockets will make a move. By now, Morey has all his plans in place, it is how the chips fall in its place. Draft night might be the start but things are being planned or is planned out already. Lets hope luck comes the Rockets way and NO OTHER TEAM FOIL these plans.

[Cannonball]

There can't be a second chance for Tracy, because he's going to miss most of the first half due to his surgery, and there will be little or no time to see how we'll he's recovered before the trade deadline has passed.

That remains to be seen. Maybe, maybe no?

[RV6]

[/b]

There can't be a second chance for Tracy, because he's going to miss most of the first half due to his surgery, and there will be little or no time to see how we'll he's recovered before the trade deadline has passed.

have you been keeping up with the recent updates? there's nothing, as of now, that indicates he's going to miss most of the first half, expecially since his timetable has him down for an opening day return and he's on track so far.....

[jump shooter]

i disagree completely....not only did Morey come out and say he's NOT shopping tmac, but they made a big move last year the trade deadline and they had time to re-adjust......you can't force moves, if they are there u can take them, if they're not you cant...if a big move they like is available this usmmer they'll take it, if it's there in Feb they'll take it then...they're not going to be worried about second chances if a favorable move is on the table.

It actually makes more sense NOT to trade tmac yet, this ways they give him a second chance, which gives the team another second chance at the tmac experiment before deciding if they want him for the whole season...

Its a business and there's no room for second chances (thats high school stuff). Because of the insurance clause in T-Mac's contract, his value around the league is at its highest it will ever be. Strike while the iron is hot.

[RV6]

Raven- I agree that we are trying to and should be trying to expedite him as soon as possible.


Anyone that thinks just becaue DM dodges a question or does not come out and say "Yes, we are trying to get rid of Tracy" means that we are not trading him or trying to trade him is crazy.

Daryl Morey answers the questions in a political manner.

He didn't dodge a question, he specifically said HE'S NOT SHOPPING tmac...he did say he's listening to every offer that comes in, but that's very different from implying he's going out and trying to move tmac by a certain date...

[RV6]

One thing for sure, The Rockets will make a move. By now, Morey has all his plans in place, it is how the chips fall in its place. Draft night might be the start but things are being planned or is planned out already. Lets hope luck comes the Rockets way and NO OTHER TEAM FOIL these plans.

Morey's usually pretty up front of deals he wants to make for sure and how they are developing...he said as of now it's not likely a move will happen, but there's always a chance...it sounds to me like he's not really getting anywhere with trade talks as of yet, but of course there's always a small chance something pops up at the last second..don't be surprised if nothing happens on draft day though..

[dantonv08]

Daryl is about perceived and actual value... a lot of the time, as he has mentioned in the past, you get the best value at the deadline rather than before the season.

By that time teams have given up or feel they are just one piece away and so player values are inflated.

I don't think you are necessarily all wrong, but I don't feel like everything will be settled before camp.

I feel that Tracy's value will not be higher than it is right now...
His insurance paying off his salary until he recovers will attract a lot off teams looking to save money..
And the potential off him coming back and being effective again will add to his value...
Let's say Tracy comes back and doesn't recover,(a lot of players don't from that injury) his value will lower and we would have to take less then what we could have got....
In my opinion there is not a better time to trade Mcgrady than right now...
Les mentioned he wanted to take advantage of teams struggling with
money..
This would be the time to make a move...
Teams that that want to cut salary and maximize their savings would want him now....

[jump shooter]

He didn't dodge a question, he specifically said HE'S NOT SHOPPING tmac...he did say he's listening to every offer that comes in, but that's very different from implying he's going out and trying to move tmac by a certain date...

Do you actually think Morey is going to go out on record and say he's shopping T-Mac, who happens to be a very sensitive and fragile guy. Of course he's going to say he's not shopping Tracy.

[Rocket86]

Morey's usually pretty up front of deals he wants to make for sure and how they are developing...he said as of now it's not likely a move will happen, but there's always a chance...it sounds to me like he's not really getting anywhere with trade talks as of yet, but of course there's always a small chance something pops up at the last second..don't be surprised if nothing happens on draft day though..

True, but I expect something to happen at least by the trade deadline. This off season might bring a quality player but I expect role players that would fit Adelman's system.

[jump shooter]

I feel that Tracy's value will not be higher than it is right now...
His insurance paying off his salary until he recovers will attract a lot off teams looking to save money..
And the potential off him coming back and being effective again will add to his value...
Let's say Tracy comes back and doesn't recover,(a lot of players don't from that injury) his value will lower and we would have to take less then what we could have got....
In my opinion there is not a better time to trade Mcgrady than right now...
Les mentioned he wanted to take advantage of teams struggling with
money..
This would be the time to make a move...
Teams that that want to cut salary and maximize their savings would want him now....

Good post. The insurance clause in Tracy's contract makes for a very special situation that couldn't have come at a better time due to economic hardships for many NBA franchises. The timing of trading T-Mac could never have been any better than what it is now. This is a gift from the trading gods.

[Raven]

Do you actually think Morey is going to go out on record and say he's shopping T-Mac, who happens to be a very sensitive and fragile guy. Of course he's going to say he's not shopping Tracy.

Agreed, and how often do general managers admit that they're trying to trade a player? Try almost never.

[RV6]

Its a business and there's no room for second chances (thats high school stuff). Because of the insurance clause in T-Mac's contract, his value around the league is at its highest it will ever be. Strike while the iron is hot.

i'ts not just about giving tmac a second chance, it's for the team...it would be stupid for them not to see where tmac is at first. his contract will expire this summer whether he comes back or not, the insurance will be available if his return is a bust and he's not healthy...that won't change...however, there's still a chance, as small as it may be, that he comes back close to 100%, if that's the case, he'll bring in more in a trade than he could ever bring on the injured list. And of course there's also the chance he may actually fit with this team is he's healthy.

You have to explore all options. Part of the "trade tmac now" panic comes from fans thinking his rehab without a doubt will take until dec or jan....why they think that i have no idea, that timetable was thrown out by other fans on here, not by tmac or the rockets. Even Ron gave one of our posters (who ran into ron recently) a WTF look when the poster mentioned tmac not coming back until dec or so....the timetable is opening day as of now, even if he's a few weeks over it gives houston enough time to experiment with lineups and check tmac out before decising what to do in Feb. As fans, we should want the team to explore all options instead of just giving up. imagine what would happen if they'd trade tmac this summer and tmac comes back healthy? Morey wouldn't hear the end of it and the same fans who wanted tmac gone will call him out for not waiting, especially if he does make his return early in the season..

[RV6]

Do you actually think Morey is going to go out on record and say he's shopping T-Mac, who happens to be a very sensitive and fragile guy. Of course he's going to say he's not shopping Tracy.

why wouldn't he? If houston is truly "done" with tmac like some fans claim, why baby tmac's feelings? if tmac get's pissed it won't matter because hell be gone, right? It's the fans who are driving the "trade tmac" bus, it seems like everyone forgets how much Alexander loves tmac and had his back when tmac announced his surgery and all that. Alexander isn't going to quit on the tmac experiment this easily unless a no brainer of a deal is offered..

[Big MAK]

Well no crap. Of course they want to have the same team all season to practice and tweek their rotation. That may or may not happen, but tell us something that we don't know.

[RV6]

I feel that Tracy's value will not be higher than it is right now...
His insurance paying off his salary until he recovers will attract a lot off teams looking to save money..
And the potential off him coming back and being effective again will add to his value...
Let's say Tracy comes back and doesn't recover,(a lot of players don't from that injury) his value will lower and we would have to take less then what we could have got....
In my opinion there is not a better time to trade Mcgrady than right now...
Les mentioned he wanted to take advantage of teams struggling with
money..
This would be the time to make a move...
Teams that that want to cut salary and maximize their savings would want him now....

There's more to gain if tmac recovers well than there is to lose if he doesn't. Right now you'll never get equal value for him, no matter what. If he comes back and busts you still dont get equal value, but if he comes back healthy, you can definitely get equal value then...thats a much bigger turnaround in value and i think Morey realizes it and that's why he's willing to wait it out..

[jump shooter]

i'ts not just about giving tmac a second chance, it's for the team...it would be stupid for them not to see where tmac is at first. his contract will expire this summer whether he comes back or not, the insurance will be available if his return is a bust and he's not healthy...that won't change...however, there's still a chance, as small as it may be, that he comes back close to 100%, if that's the case, he'll bring in more in a trade than he could ever bring on the injured list. And of course there's also the chance he may actually fit with this team is he's healthy.

You have to explore all options. Part of the "trade tmac now" panic comes from fans thinking his rehab without a doubt will take until dec or jan....why they think that i have no idea, that timetable was thrown out by other fans on here, not by tmac or the rockets. Even Ron gave one of our posters (who ran into ron recently) a WTF look when the poster mentioned tmac not coming back until dec or so....the timetable is opening day as of now, even if he's a few weeks over it gives houston enough time to experiment with lineups and check tmac out before decising what to do in Feb. As fans, we should want the team to explore all options instead of just giving up. imagine what would happen if they'd trade tmac this summer and tmac comes back healthy? Morey wouldn't hear the end of it and the same fans who wanted tmac gone will call him out for not waiting, especially if he does make his return early in the season..

The insurance clause in Tracy's contract probably makes him one of the most valuable trading pieces in this tough economic environment in the NBA right now. I dont think his value will be any higher than what it currently is and his value is not about how good a player he is or what he brings. Its about money and how much cash a franchise can save that could potentially give the rockets the player or players that could push them over the top. I think the rockets are probably in one of the most enviable positions in the league right now. I'll be shocked if a team doesn't pull their pants down to grab Tracy's contract and unload some talent that in normal economic environments would never be traded.

[abc2007]

Do you think his teammates want to give him a 2nd chance? Without him, they share the ball well, and have passed the 1st round. If Tmac does come back as a rocket, he has to accept a much lesser role. Tmac is a sensitive guy. Maybe it's a better thing for him to go to another team and have a new start.

i'ts not just about giving tmac a second chance, it's for the team...it would be stupid for them not to see where tmac is at first. his contract will expire this summer whether he comes back or not, the insurance will be available if his return is a bust and he's not healthy...that won't change...however, there's still a chance, as small as it may be, that he comes back close to 100%, if that's the case, he'll bring in more in a trade than he could ever bring on the injured list. And of course there's also the chance he may actually fit with this team is he's healthy.

You have to explore all options. Part of the "trade tmac now" panic comes from fans thinking his rehab without a doubt will take until dec or jan....why they think that i have no idea, that timetable was thrown out by other fans on here, not by tmac or the rockets. Even Ron gave one of our posters (who ran into ron recently) a WTF look when the poster mentioned tmac not coming back until dec or so....the timetable is opening day as of now, even if he's a few weeks over it gives houston enough time to experiment with lineups and check tmac out before decising what to do in Feb. As fans, we should want the team to explore all options instead of just giving up. imagine what would happen if they'd trade tmac this summer and tmac comes back healthy? Morey wouldn't hear the end of it and the same fans who wanted tmac gone will call him out for not waiting, especially if he does make his return early in the season..

[RV6]

The insurance clause in Tracy's contract probably makes him one of the most valuable trading pieces in this tough economic environment in the NBA right now. I dont think his value will be any higher than what it currently is and his value is not about how good a player he is or what he brings. Its about money and how much cash a franchise can save that could potentially give the rockets the player or players that could push them over the top. I think the rockets are probably in the one of the most enviable positions in the league right now. I'll be shocked if a team doesn't pull their pants down to grab Tracy's contract and unload some talent that in normal economic environments would never be traded.

Not EVERY single team besides houston is trying to save money...most are, but some aren't, and some would be OK just trading salaries even if they aren't saving money. I think a playoff team would see value in a healthy tmac if he may get them over the hump, even if it means spending a bit more, the extra merchandise and ticket sales would help greatly.

[jump shooter]

why wouldn't he? If houston is truly "done" with tmac like some fans claim, why baby tmac's feelings? if tmac get's pissed it won't matter because hell be gone, right? It's the fans who are driving the "trade tmac" bus, it seems like everyone forgets how much Alexander loves tmac and had his back when tmac announced his surgery and all that. Alexander isn't going to quit on the tmac experiment this easily unless a no brainer of a deal is offered..

Please. You actually think that Morey is going to tip his hand on what he's going to do with Tracy or with anybody else on the team. If he comes out saying that he's shopping Tracy and it doesn't work out, who's the one that's going to have egg on his face. He's going to have to mend the fences with a very sensitive Tracy McGrady. If you were GM would come out tell everyone Tracy's for sale and weaken your negotiating position. Morey's phone is probably ringing off the wall right now and I just can't believe the rockets are in such a great opportunistic position as they are right now.

[t_mac1]

Do you actually think Morey is going to go out on record and say he's shopping T-Mac, who happens to be a very sensitive and fragile guy. Of course he's going to say he's not shopping Tracy.

listening to offers for a guy is still like shopping for a guy. if you're untradeable, your GM won't even pick up phone calls regarding you. you think ferry would entertain calls regarding lebron?

so tracy knows he can be traded. so what's to hide? morey has said he's willing to listen to offers for tracy. to me, that' essentially the same thing.

but i do agree with morey that he's not so active saying we NEED to trade tracy and is desperate to do so. i think morey is open to getting tmac back.

[RV6]

Do you think his teammates want to give him a 2nd chance? Without him, they share the ball well, and have passed the 1st round. If Tmac does come back as a rocket, he has to accept a much lesser role. Tmac is a sensitive guy. Maybe it's a better thing for him to go to another team and have a new start.


What teammate has said they aren't willing to? FANS are the ones saying there's drama and that they hate each other. Every single player that has talked about it has denied it. Yes, sometimes players hide the truth, but not always, i think we need to give them the benefit of the doubt here, especially since the bench looked fine when tmac was there, players were still interacting with him well and they seemed to be in good terms......

I think everyone forgets tmac was never healthy last year. If tmac isn't healthy, what's he going to do on the court?? Jack it up. He's not going to create anything because he can't physically, so of course he's going to stop ball movement and drop their efficiency. We don't know what a healthy tmac will do with these players, maybe he'll create and make the game even easier, we just dont know. No one can say with certainty that he'll fit or won't fit, that's precisely why the team isn't in a hurry to trade him just yet until they do know for sure. Once they know he doesn't fit or that he's not going to be the same, then we'll feel the sense of urgency..

but as of right now, it's mostly fans overreacting, like always..

[t_mac1]

Do you think his teammates want to give him a 2nd chance? Without him, they share the ball well, and have passed the 1st round. If Tmac does come back as a rocket, he has to accept a much lesser role. Tmac is a sensitive guy. Maybe it's a better thing for him to go to another team and have a new start.

i'm sure they don't "love" tracy. but if he's healthy, they do respect tracy. they didn't like his inconsistency, and always going in and out of the lineup and not letting the team know when... those things did piss some of the teammates' of. tracy's style of play and game, from what i've read, are not the reasons his teammates are pissed off at him about.

[jump shooter]

Not EVERY single team besides houston is trying to save money...most are, but some aren't, and some would be OK just trading salaries even if they aren't saving money. I think a playoff team would see value in a healthy tmac if he may get them over the hump, even if it means spending a bit more, the extra merchandise and ticket sales would help greatly.

Why have players around the NBA nicknamed Tracy "Half Man Half a Season". He' an injury gamble period. The percentages of Tracy being healthy not for all but for a good portion of the season is extremely low and especially after microfractive surgery. He is going to need the ability to change his game once he figures he doesn't have the same explosion he once had, does he have the mental toughnes to make those changes. If there was a guarantee that he could play 70 games, I wouldn't even consider trading him. I for one do not want to see another fragmented injury plagued season, having an injury prone center is more than enough for me to handle.

[dantonv08]

Not EVERY single team besides houston is trying to save money...most are, but some aren't, and some would be OK just trading salaries even if they aren't saving money. I think a playoff team would see value in a healthy tmac if he may get them over the hump, even if it means spending a bit more, the extra merchandise and ticket sales would help greatly.

I think we have more potential to get better value from teams that are looking to save money than teams that are looking to advance in the playoffs...
A playoff team will look at his injury history and this is his contract year...
And they would ask themselves Is it worth giving up a player we could use for a player that is not guaranteed to resign or stay healthy more than one year??
He would basically be a one year rental...

[abc2007]

The things have changed since the rockets passed the 1st round without him.

I don't think they want 'dominating the ball Tmac' anymore. A couple of seasons ago, they couldn't win games without Tmac, of course they respected him. Now, even he can recover 100%, if he still hold the ball a lot, they wouldn't like him. If Tmac still wants to be a rocket, he needs to have a psychological preparation for that.

i'm sure they don't "love" tracy. but if he's healthy, they do respect tracy. they didn't like his inconsistency, and always going in and out of the lineup and not letting the team know when... those things did piss some of the teammates' of. tracy's style of play and game, from what i've read, are not the reasons his teammates are pissed off at him about.

[t_mac1]

The things have changed since the rockets passed the 1st round without him.

I don't think they want 'dominating the ball Tmac' anymore. A couple of seasons ago, they couldn't win games without Tmac, of course they respected him. Now, even he can recover 100%, if he still hold the ball a lot, they wouldn't like him. If Tmac still wants to be a rocket, he needs to have a psychological preparation for that.

have you seen ron artest? when dude starts dribbling, it ain't leaving his hands.

they didn't respect tracy this year b/c he was always in and out of the lineup and they never know when he's going to play. when you don't know if a player has your back every game by not showing up, you're going to lose respect for the guy.

shane, yao, and adelman have all said this year when tracy went out that they miss giving him the ball late in games and let him create. so again, they don't mind his style of play (i actually think they miss it at times). they just didn't like how he handled his injuries and always kept the team and players out of the loop.

[abc2007]

The rockets have proved they can success without Tmac. Now, because of the nature of Tmac's contract, he has the highest trading value right now. If a right offer come, why shouldn't the rockets do it?! The players can practice and play together from training camp. That will be a better situation for the rockets.

What teammate has said they aren't willing to? FANS are the ones saying there's drama and that they hate each other. Every single player that has talked about it has denied it. Yes, sometimes players hide the truth, but not always, i think we need to give them the benefit of the doubt here, especially since the bench looked fine when tmac was there, players were still interacting with him well and they seemed to be in good terms......

I think everyone forgets tmac was never healthy last year. If tmac isn't healthy, what's he going to do on the court?? Jack it up. He's not going to create anything because he can't physically, so of course he's going to stop ball movement and drop their efficiency. We don't know what a healthy tmac will do with these players, maybe he'll create and make the game even easier, we just dont know. No one can say with certainty that he'll fit or won't fit, that's precisely why the team isn't in a hurry to trade him just yet until they do know for sure. Once they know he doesn't fit or that he's not going to be the same, then we'll feel the sense of urgency..

but as of right now, it's mostly fans overreacting, like always..

[NIKEstrad]

The Alston deadline trade told me that Morey is willing to make moves whenever it will better the team.

Assuming Feigan's info on the insurance payments is correct, TMac's value to others is highest before the season starts. That may mean our biggest moves will come now, but it has little to do with time to gel.

[jump shooter]

have you seen ron artest? when dude starts dribbling, it ain't leaving his hands.

they didn't respect tracy this year b/c he was always in and out of the lineup and they never know when he's going to play. when you don't know if a player has your back every game by not showing up, you're going to lose respect for the guy.

shane, yao, and adelman have all said this year when tracy went out that they miss giving him the ball late in games and let him create. so again, they don't mind his style of play (i actually think they miss it at times). they just didn't like how he handled his injuries and always kept the team and players out of the loop.

Agree, they really missed Tracy at the end of games.

[abc2007]

I am sure if they couldn't win without him, they would still 'respect' him even he was in and out of the lineup.

The things have changed since they can win without him. That is a fact. Tmac needs to accept it. If he can, there is still a chance for him to be a rocket. Otherwise, it would be a better thing for him to leave.



they didn't respect tracy this year b/c he was always in and out of the lineup and they never know when he's going to play. when you don't know if a player has your back every game by not showing up, you're going to lose respect for the guy.

shane, yao, and adelman have all said this year when tracy went out that they miss giving him the ball late in games and let him create. so again, they don't mind his style of play (i actually think they miss it at times). they just didn't like how he handled his injuries and always kept the team and players out of the loop.

[t_mac1]

I am sure if they couldn't win without him, they would still 'respect' him even he was in and out of the lineup.

The things have changed since they can win without him. That is a fact. Tmac needs to accept it. If he can, there is still a chance for him to be a rocket. Otherwise, it would be a better thing for him to leave.

no they wouldn't. the #1 thing all rocket fans were frustrated was tracy deciding on his own whether he was going to play or not, when he was taking time off, when he's going to return. that's the thing i disliked how tracy handled his situation this year.

when you're going to war and don't know if your "teammate" is going with you or not, it's going to wear on you.

yao said that SPECIFICALLY this year regarding what i said. you need to follow the team more closely if you want to know what was the most frustrating thing for the team this year was regarding tracy.

[t_mac1]

Agree, they really missed Tracy at the end of games.

adelman, shane, AND yao stated that same thing. so i'm sure if tracy comes back healthy and IS ABLE TO PLAY MORE THAN A FEW GAMES HERE AND THERE, everything will be fine.

but he has to regain the trust back to where he has to be ready to come to play every night, and if he's going to be out, let the team know about it.

[abc2007]

Tmac should accept the fact that the rocket can win without him, so should his loyal fans.

no they wouldn't. the #1 thing all rocket fans were frustrated was tracy deciding on his own whether he was going to play or not, when he was taking time off, when he's going to return. that's the thing i disliked how tracy handled his situation this year.

when you're going to war and don't know if your "teammate" is going with you or not, it's going to wear on you.

yao said that SPECIFICALLY this year regarding what i said. you need to follow the team more closely if you want to know what was the most frustrating thing for the team this year was regarding tracy.

[abc2007]

However, the rockets passed the 1st round without Tmac!

Agree, they really missed Tracy at the end of games.

[jump shooter]

However, the rockets passed the 1st round without Tmac!

Yes they did, but objectively Tracy was hands down their best closer and playmaker at the end of games (nobody else on the team comes close). Im a huge rockets fan and Im trying to be objective.

[Yao4REAL]

I truly believe Morey and the owner need to stop falling in LOVE with Tmac. Dude is not the same after the surgery and even if he's healthy...who's to say that he's going to make us better?? As I said before, when he's in the starting lineup...he completely change the way the Rockets run the team and defensively, they have too many holes.

It has also already been demonstrated that this Rockets team is more lethal, focus, efficient, you name it WHENEVER BATTIER and RON is in the lineup. And it is unbeatable when you have a Center that stop penetration and 2 premier defenders that can take care of the other team's main weapons. Offensively, we're actually more efficient without Tmac because the team is flowing better and everybody is contributing.

Yes we need a Tmac's talent, BUT we don't need a Tmac's heart and desire and lack of defense and motivation and a will to dominate the game. Tmac was never all of that...simply PUT, he does NOT FIT!! And it's time to get rid of him rather than falling in love and play the waiting game and see what happened.

If you keep waiting...well guess what, if Tmac is coming back and he changed the team in a negative way again...I can't blame if Yao want to leave and head to Cleveland because it's pretty understandable. I am sure his teammates don't want to say anything about getting rid of Tmac even if they don't like him or even if they want him gone because they don't want to create a problem. So what do you expect Ron or Yao is going to say about Tmac? Of course the usual nice thing, but it could also mean they don't mind gettin rid of him because the team is better without him. It's been proven in the Playoffs.

[Da Wink]

Honestly, I want the Rox to make a big move right away the draft..so we can just re-sign Artest immediately afterwards and we're set..

[abc2007]

I think Tmac needs a type of attitude if he wants to continute to play as a rocket. He should think it's an honor to be a part of a great team, and play hard at the defense end, do some dirty works rather than thinking he is their best closer.

Yes they did, but objectively Tracy was hands down their best closer and playmaker at the end of games (nobody else on the team comes close). Im a huge rockets fan and Im trying to be objective.

[t_mac1]

Tmac should accept the fact that the rocket can win without him, so should his loyal fans.

your logic is terrible. tracy is most likely going to be traded. but if he was "healthy," he has always helped this team. adelman and players have stated they missed his presence on the court in a lot of games.

[t_mac1]

However, the rockets passed the 1st round without Tmac!

they would have passed the first round if tracy was "healthy" enough to play too and left his emotional baggage at the door. read the bold part.

[t_mac1]

I think Tmac needs a type of attitude if he wants to continute to play as a rocket. He should think it's an honor to be a part of a great team, and play hard at the defense end, do some dirty works rather than thinking he is their best closer.

the only time tracy has failed to show up on a consistent basis was LAST YEAR (when he was injured all year). every other year, tracy has played his hearts out for the most part, esp. in the playoffs.

he'll do what he has to do if he's able to play. the question is, will he be able to play 65-70 games and be able to play on a consistent basis at a high level?

[t_mac1]

I truly believe Morey and the owner need to stop falling in LOVE with Tmac. Dude is not the same after the surgery and even if he's healthy...who's to say that he's going to make us better?? As I said before, when he's in the starting lineup...he completely change the way the Rockets run the team and defensively, they have too many holes.

It has also already been demonstrated that this Rockets team is more lethal, focus, efficient, you name it WHENEVER BATTIER and RON is in the lineup. And it is unbeatable when you have a Center that stop penetration and 2 premier defenders that can take care of the other team's main weapons. Offensively, we're actually more efficient without Tmac because the team is flowing better and everybody is contributing.

Yes we need a Tmac's talent, BUT we don't need a Tmac's heart and desire and lack of defense and motivation and a will to dominate the game. Tmac was never all of that...simply PUT, he does NOT FIT!! And it's time to get rid of him rather than falling in love and play the waiting game and see what happened.

If you keep waiting...well guess what, if Tmac is coming back and he changed the team in a negative way again...I can't blame if Yao want to leave and head to Cleveland because it's pretty understandable. I am sure his teammates don't want to say anything about getting rid of Tmac even if they don't like him or even if they want him gone because they don't want to create a problem. So what do you expect Ron or Yao is going to say about Tmac? Of course the usual nice thing, but it could also mean they don't mind gettin rid of him because the team is better without him. It's been proven in the Playoffs.

tracy last year was NEVER healthy or close to 50 or 60% in terms of health. but yet your whole post of him being "potentially healthy" was based on his play last year. ;)

[abc2007]

Again, 'would have', 'if', ... ;)

they would have passed the first round if tracy was "healthy" enough to play too and left his emotional baggage at the door. read the bold part.

[t_mac1]

Again, 'would have', 'if', ... ;)

ok then. when we lost to utah in 6, morey and les were still adamant about keeping tracy here. so his play was NOT the problem.

[abc2007]

I am not sure you got my point or not...

All I said is that Tmac needs to be humble since the rockets can win without him...

the only time tracy has failed to show up on a consistent basis was LAST YEAR (when he was injured all year). every other year, tracy has played his hearts out for the most part, esp. in the playoffs.

he'll do what he has to do if he's able to play. the question is, will he be able to play 65-70 games and be able to play on a consistent basis at a high level?

[abc2007]

Don't live in the past! You need to accept the fact the rockets passed the 1st round without him this year!

ok then. when we lost to utah in 6, morey and les were still adamant about keeping tracy here. so his play was NOT the problem.

[t_mac1]

I am not sure you got my point or not...

All I said is that Tmac needs to be humble since the rockets can win without him...

and didn't he sacrifice his game when he came back 2 years ago for our 22 game winning streak b/c the team played well without him then too? we only started to go to tracy more b/c yao was out.

[t_mac1]

Don't live in the past! You need to accept the fact the rockets passed the 1st round without him this year!

yes they did. and they can be better with him if he comes back healthy (if he's not traded soon).

[jump shooter]

[QUOTE=abc2007]I think Tmac needs a type of attitude if he wants to continute to play as a rocket. He should think it's an honor to be a part of a great team, and play hard at the defense end, do some dirty works rather than thinking he is their best closer.[/QUOTE

T-Mac is what he is, give it break.

[RV6]

Please. You actually think that Morey is going to tip his hand on what he's going to do with Tracy or with anybody else on the team. If he comes out saying that he's shopping Tracy and it doesn't work out, who's the one that's going to have egg on his face. He's going to have to mend the fences with a very sensitive Tracy McGrady. If you were GM would come out tell everyone Tracy's for sale and weaken your negotiating position. Morey's phone is probably ringing off the wall right now and I just can't believe the rockets are in such a great opportunistic position as they are right now.


He did it with Head. Did it with bobby Jax. It's not as crazy as you think. Why would he have to mend anything with Tmac? If tmac is done and he's being shopped then he's not playing here anymore, right? They would sit hi down if a trade didn't happen and just wait out his contract. There's no reason for Morey to kiss his a$$ after they decide they're done with him.

what negotiation position does he have? If anything he's creating less opportunities by saying he's not shopping him. If you come out and say it, then you're going to get a lot more offers, which would be the point if they truly wanted tmac gone, right?

[RV6]

listening to offers for a guy is still like shopping for a guy. if you're untradeable, your GM won't even pick up phone calls regarding you. you think ferry would entertain calls regarding lebron?

so tracy knows he can be traded. so what's to hide? morey has said he's willing to listen to offers for tracy. to me, that' essentially the same thing.

but i do agree with morey that he's not so active saying we NEED to trade tracy and is desperate to do so. i think morey is open to getting tmac back.


exactly, some fans think Houston just wants to get rid of tmac and has lost all hope...it seems like they believe more in tmac than anybody else..

[abc2007]

Aagin, again, ... ;)

yes they did. and they can be better with him if he comes back healthy (if he's not traded soon).

[t_mac1]

Aagin, again, ... ;)

thats why that's the reason i want him traded - injury concerns.

not his style of play like your reasons ;)

[RV6]

Why have players around the NBA nicknamed Tracy "Half Man Half a Season". He' an injury gamble period. The percentages of Tracy being healthy not for all but for a good portion of the season is extremely low and especially after microfractive surgery. He is going to need the ability to change his game once he figures he doesn't have the same explosion he once had, does he have the mental toughnes to make those changes. If there was a guarantee that he could play 70 games, I wouldn't even consider trading him. I for one do not want to see another fragmented injury plagued season, having an injury prone center is more than enough for me to handle.

Wasn't ron a gamble as well? Who gave him any chance of going the whole season without a flare up?? It's close to the same position for ron and tmac, the difference is tmac's issue is injuries and ron's is his temper. They both are low risk moves though for two reasons, one, they are both tradeable even with their issues, and two, tmac has one season left, much like ron had one with us as well, so there's no long term commitment anymore. It would be incredibly stupid for houston to trade him just to be done with him only for tmac to actually manage to come back and be succesful again. There's absolutely no reason why you trade him when he's on track to be back early, you only do it if you're making a trade in your favor. Other than that, you wait it out and take him for a test drive first..

[abc2007]

From what I read, I feel the rockets don't have to trade Tmac.

It will depend on two things. 1st, whether there is a good offer from another team. 2nd, whether tmac has a good attitude to be a part of Adelman's system and accept his reduced role.

[abc2007]

btw, I never doubt Tmac can be recovered at a good level even if he is not at 100% physical level. He is very talented player.

[nomad_balla]

completely false logic. moves will be made when the right deals presents itself. you can't just make moves for the sake of it.

[RV6]

The things have changed since the rockets passed the 1st round without him.

I don't think they want 'dominating the ball Tmac' anymore. A couple of seasons ago, they couldn't win games without Tmac, of course they respected him. Now, even he can recover 100%, if he still hold the ball a lot, they wouldn't like him. If Tmac still wants to be a rocket, he needs to have a psychological preparation for that.

Ron does the same thing, but i don't see them hating ron? You can hate certain things without hating the individual as a person. Just like they talk to ron and calm him down they can talk to tracy as well, the best scenario would be getting everyone healthy and on the same page..

[RV6]

The rockets have proved they can success without Tmac. Now, because of the nature of Tmac's contract, he has the highest trading value right now. If a right offer come, why shouldn't the rockets do it?! The players can practice and play together from training camp. That will be a better situation for the rockets.


they've had success before with yao and tracy, with only yao, an with only tmac and with neither of them. That doesn't mean much, the goal is to win a ring, not just compete, and they haven't proven they can win that without tracy.

I'm not against trading tmac if a good offer is on the table, i've actually been saying that's the only reason why you'd trade him this summer....what i don't agree with is just taking the best offer available by training camp just to get rid of him and set the roster.

[abc2007]

I don't hate tmac. If my friends face similar situation, I would give them same suggestion.

Ron does the same thing, but i don't see them hating ron? You can hate certain things without hating the individual as a person. Just like they talk to ron and calm him down they can talk to tracy as well, the best scenario would be getting everyone healthy and on the same page..

[t_mac1]

Ron does the same thing, but i don't see them hating ron? You can hate certain things without hating the individual as a person. Just like they talk to ron and calm him down they can talk to tracy as well, the best scenario would be getting everyone healthy and on the same page..

i was actually disappointed in our offense. we had a ton of offensive options and yet we struggled to score so much in the playoffs. we were beyond atrocious at times. we were fortunate our defense played at a championship level, along with our hustle.

this year's playoffs: we averaged 91.5ppg only. last year's playoffs, we averaged 88ppg despite missing yao every game, rafer for 2.5 games, and guys injured with no bench.

we really need adelman to devise a way to just solve the fronting or get a playmaker.

[abc2007]

I think that is what the rockets are doing! They said they don't shop tmac but other teams call them. ;)


I'm not against trading tmac if a good offer is on the table, i've actually been saying that's the only reason why you'd trade him this summer....what i don't agree with is just taking the best offer available by training camp just to get rid of him and set the roster.

[RV6]

I truly believe Morey and the owner need to stop falling in LOVE with Tmac. Dude is not the same after the surgery and even if he's healthy...who's to say that he's going to make us better?? As I said before, when he's in the starting lineup...he completely change the way the Rockets run the team and defensively, they have too many holes.

It has also already been demonstrated that this Rockets team is more lethal, focus, efficient, you name it WHENEVER BATTIER and RON is in the lineup. And it is unbeatable when you have a Center that stop penetration and 2 premier defenders that can take care of the other team's main weapons. Offensively, we're actually more efficient without Tmac because the team is flowing better and everybody is contributing.

Yes we need a Tmac's talent, BUT we don't need a Tmac's heart and desire and lack of defense and motivation and a will to dominate the game. Tmac was never all of that...simply PUT, he does NOT FIT!! And it's time to get rid of him rather than falling in love and play the waiting game and see what happened.

If you keep waiting...well guess what, if Tmac is coming back and he changed the team in a negative way again...I can't blame if Yao want to leave and head to Cleveland because it's pretty understandable. I am sure his teammates don't want to say anything about getting rid of Tmac even if they don't like him or even if they want him gone because they don't want to create a problem. So what do you expect Ron or Yao is going to say about Tmac? Of course the usual nice thing, but it could also mean they don't mind gettin rid of him because the team is better without him. It's been proven in the Playoffs.

You can't be certain he's not the same after surgery when he hasn't even played yet...

the reasont hey were more focused and intact after Tracy left was because they had consistency..they knew who was playing and who wasn't, what the roles would be from game to game, instead of one game being more of a scorer and the next more of a role guy, that was the problem, not that it was tmac....

Even yao didn't fit on this team after he got injured in game 3..he wasn't his usual self, he was more of a liability out there for us...that doesn't mean he doesn't fit, does it? Tracy's issue was the same....

[jump shooter]

He did it with Head. Did it with bobby Jax. It's not as crazy as you think. Why would he have to mend anything with Tmac? If tmac is done and he's being shopped then he's not playing here anymore, right? They would sit hi down if a trade didn't happen and just wait out his contract. There's no reason for Morey to kiss his a$$ after they decide they're done with him.

what negotiation position does he have? If anything he's creating less opportunities by saying he's not shopping him. If you come out and say it, then you're going to get a lot more offers, which would be the point if they truly wanted tmac gone, right?

All Im going to say to you is thank god your not the rockets GM.

[RV6]

All Im going to say to you is thank god your not the rockets GM.

because there's nothing more to say....there's only so many options you can have with a player who's injured and not playing. Your options are severely limited because most teams you talk to will have the upper hand because you're giving them damaged goods and can only trade based on tmac's contract, not his value as a player.

[texascityman31]

no no no, raven is right. look at the gasol trade. they got to the finals, but look at how much more chemistry there was with an offseason for the lakers.

[t_mac1]

no no no, raven is right. look at the gasol trade. they got to the finals, but look at how much more chemistry there was with an offseason for the lakers.

OR they had ariza, where they didn't in last year's playoffs. ariza was HUGE for them in the playoffs.

[Raven]

completely false logic. moves will be made when the right deals presents itself. you can't just make moves for the sake of it.

Was Rafer traded for chemistry reasons or because the Rockets found the right deal? Personally, I think they traded him for chemistry reasons, because they wanted to give Brooks more play time and they were concerned how Rafer would react, and that concern proved to be prophetic, because Skippy raised a huge stink when he was semi benched in game four against the Lakers.

[roxstarz]

I dont think anyone knows that our current team ( without tmac) has enough fire power to take down the lakers. even with a backup center I still dont see us beating the lakers with:


brooks pg
artest sg
battier sf
scola pf
yao c


we need another peice to the puzzle, someone with an offensive game. This is where tmac comes in to play or someone of his abilities. I say give tmac till the deadline and if he still can't produce then trade him for a true sg with a triple threat.

[worzel gummidge]

fans thinking his rehab without a doubt will take until dec or jan....why they think that i have no idea, that timetable was thrown out by other fans on here, not by tmac or the rockets.
Why would Feigen's informant tell him that McGrady's contract is already qualified for insurance as a counter to the DraftExpress article where it was stated he's expected to miss the first 20-30 games? Couldn't they have just repeated McGrady's own claim of him being ready on opening night?

[jump shooter]

Was Rafer traded for chemistry reasons or because the Rockets found the right deal? Personally, I think they traded him for chemistry reasons, because they wanted to give Brooks more play time and they were concerned how Rafer would react, and that concern proved to be prophetic, because Skippy raised a huge stink when he was semi benched in game four against the Lakers.

Also Raven the big reason they made the Alston for Lowry trade was Lowry's ability to attack the basket, which was sorely missed without T-Mac. I think Alston was a better fit with Tracy, but they knew Tracy wasn't coming back and hence they upgraded there PG talent in getting Lowry.

[t_mac1]

Was Rafer traded for chemistry reasons or because the Rockets found the right deal? Personally, I think they traded him for chemistry reasons, because they wanted to give Brooks more play time and they were concerned how Rafer would react, and that concern proved to be prophetic, because Skippy raised a huge stink when he was semi benched in game four against the Lakers.

i think morey and adelman have been wanting to trade adelman since adelman first got here. that was a fact. it wasn't for chemistry issue or anything.

[DaDakota]

I totally agree that he will try to get the roster assembled by training camp.

DD

[RV6]

OR they had ariza, where they didn't in last year's playoffs. ariza was HUGE for them in the playoffs.

or they faced a weaker team this time around..

[RV6]

Was Rafer traded for chemistry reasons or because the Rockets found the right deal? Personally, I think they traded him for chemistry reasons, because they wanted to give Brooks more play time and they were concerned how Rafer would react, and that concern proved to be prophetic, because Skippy raised a huge stink when he was semi benched in game four against the Lakers.

Rafer was traded for his play, not chemistry. He's always been a standup guy, not the kind to bitch unless there's reason to like when he got benched so long in that game int he finals....he got traded from houston because we needed more versatile scoring from the PG spot..rafer's only offense was long jumpshots, Fts from plays he usually didnt create, and an occasional drive...brooks brought all around scoring and Lowry brought his ability to draw fouls and finish strong..

[RV6]

Why would Feigen's informant tell him that McGrady's contract is already qualified for insurance as a counter to the DraftExpress article where it was stated he's expected to miss the first 20-30 games? Couldn't they have just repeated McGrady's own claim of him being ready on opening night?

you'd have to ask him that...not only is tmac claiming to be on schedule, but so did Morey, so i dont think it's tmac making up stuff or him being too optimistic....my guess is there's an "official" timeframe that the doctors turn in to the league along with insurance papers and that's what they go by, so its the average recovery timeframe that was used to calculate his return, which would take him 20-30 games into the season.....

[saleem]

It will all depend on what he can get right now.If it's junk,he won't move McGrady and anyone else.

[faraza84]

i agree that they will move him, it seems funny how before they thought he would be ready for training camp and now rumors of 30-40 games have emerged, theres always some truth to the rumors, that late in the season is at the deadline so to get any return that can mesh with the team we will pull the trigger soon, we are just waiting for the draft and then going to go full gear with the shopping. of course no good gm is going to go around saying hes trading his old star player , only dumb gm's like kerr do stuff like that and that creates frictioin in locker rooms, obviously when you know your about to leave your going to be pissed, but im pretty sure tmac knows and hes already spoken to morey.

[ambrose86]

Wow!!! Frekin' Original!!!!!!!

[Little Bit]

i agree that they will move him, it seems funny how before they thought he would be ready for training camp and now rumors of 30-40 games have emerged, theres always some truth to the rumors, that late in the season is at the deadline so to get any return that can mesh with the team we will pull the trigger soon, we are just waiting for the draft and then going to go full gear with the shopping. of course no good gm is going to go around saying hes trading his old star player , only dumb gm's like kerr do stuff like that and that creates frictioin in locker rooms, obviously when you know your about to leave your going to be pissed, but im pretty sure tmac knows and hes already spoken to morey.

I don't know who you are referring to when you say "they," but I don't remember anyone from the Rockets camp officially saying Tmac will be ready by training camp. That information was all coming from Dr. McGrady.

[faraza84]

I don't know who you are referring to when you say "they," but I don't remember anyone from the Rockets camp officially saying Tmac will be ready by training camp. That information was all coming from Dr. McGrady.

i think it was either chron or morey but i could be wrong it could have been Dr. Tmac, a doctor without doing premed wow

[pdewalt]

Tmac should accept the fact that the rocket can win without him, so should his loyal fans.

If they didn't win the championship then what does winning a playoff series really matter? Even Artest talked about that... The Rockets need someone with a similar skill set as T-Mac and I don't think they have anyone.

[saleem]

If they didn't win the championship then what does winning a playoff series really matter? Even Artest talked about that... The Rockets need someone with a similar skill set as T-Mac and I don't think they have anyone.
A similar skill set but with a more attacking style. McGrady takes too many outside shots when he should be trying to get to the basket.He has the length but doesn't work hard on defense either.

[nomad_balla]

Was Rafer traded for chemistry reasons or because the Rockets found the right deal? Personally, I think they traded him for chemistry reasons, because they wanted to give Brooks more play time and they were concerned how Rafer would react, and that concern proved to be prophetic, because Skippy raised a huge stink when he was semi benched in game four against the Lakers.

whatever reason it might be.........i know rafer was almost immovable until the magic's nelson got injured. so the right deal came along. of course rights the rockets GM will seek to make moves, but if you can't make moves by youself. you need a team willing to deal with.

[HTR99]

i'ts not just about giving tmac a second chance, it's for the team...it would be stupid for them not to see where tmac is at first. his contract will expire this summer whether he comes back or not, the insurance will be available if his return is a bust and he's not healthy...that won't change...however, there's still a chance, as small as it may be, that he comes back close to 100%, if that's the case, he'll bring in more in a trade than he could ever bring on the injured list. And of course there's also the chance he may actually fit with this team is he's healthy.

You have to explore all options. Part of the "trade tmac now" panic comes from fans thinking his rehab without a doubt will take until dec or jan....why they think that i have no idea, that timetable was thrown out by other fans on here, not by tmac or the rockets. Even Ron gave one of our posters (who ran into ron recently) a WTF look when the poster mentioned tmac not coming back until dec or so....the timetable is opening day as of now, even if he's a few weeks over it gives houston enough time to experiment with lineups and check tmac out before decising what to do in Feb. As fans, we should want the team to explore all options instead of just giving up. imagine what would happen if they'd trade tmac this summer and tmac comes back healthy? Morey wouldn't hear the end of it and the same fans who wanted tmac gone will call him out for not waiting, especially if he does make his return early in the season..

Right on, just hold on to him for now. If we're able to get something big now, then deal now but no GM is going to give us their superstar/star for T-Mac, no matter how bad the economy is. At worst, we let his contract expire. We just have to see how where he is on the court physically and mentally before rushing into anything whether it be his return or a deal.

[Dubious]

Assuming Feigan's info on the insurance payments is correct, TMac's value to others is highest before the season starts. That may mean our biggest moves will come now, but it has little to do with time to gel.

Nike, I look to you for CBA, salary cap and contract information. Do we really know what the insurance stipulations are?

Last year when Tracy shut it down I asked Charlie Palilo about it because I couldn't believe the Rockets weren't in on his surgery decision. I thought it might have been a collusion to collect on the policy. But Charlie P said Tracy has to sit for an entire season for the Rockets to collect. I don't know how he would know and I don't know if Feigan knows but that certainly seems to be the $23 million dollar question.

How can we find out?

[tcadriel]

The Rockets juggled lineups pretty much all season last year and I don't believe they want to do that again. A Tracy trade is on the table and my belief is that they'd want to have a set roster from the beginning of the season. But Morey won't just give Tracy's contract away for peanuts. If the right deal comes along, Bye Bye Tracy. Hopefully sooner than later.
In Morey We Trust!!(IMWT!!)

[RV6]

I don't know who you are referring to when you say "they," but I don't remember anyone from the Rockets camp officially saying Tmac will be ready by training camp. That information was all coming from Dr. McGrady.

tmac posted it on his blog, but then morey also mentioned it during an interview

[faraza84]

tmac posted it on his blog, but then morey also mentioned it during an interview
thanks for having my back yo, i knew it came from somewhere

[pdewalt]

A similar skill set but with a more attacking style. McGrady takes too many outside shots when he should be trying to get to the basket.He has the length but doesn't work hard on defense either.

He has played decent defense prior to this past season. Wasn't Shane brought in to defend the primary scorer to allow T-Mac to save energy for the offensive side?

He also penetrated a lot more than people here tend to give him prior to this season. But I understand why people say that.

[JoeZ]

I agree aswell with Raven. If we want to win, we have to be as prepared as possible, this means doing the work now. We are fortunate Morey is working hard! Great:)

[pbthunder]

He has played decent defense prior to this past season. Wasn't Shane brought in to defend the primary scorer to allow T-Mac to save energy for the offensive side?

He also penetrated a lot more than people here tend to give him prior to this season. But I understand why people say that.

Agreed.

[Rocket River]

i'ts not just about giving tmac a second chance, it's for the team...it would be stupid for them not to see where tmac is at first. his contract will expire this summer whether he comes back or not, the insurance will be available if his return is a bust and he's not healthy...that won't change...however, there's still a chance, as small as it may be, that he comes back close to 100%, if that's the case, he'll bring in more in a trade than he could ever bring on the injured list. .


I think at the end of the day
TMAC is gone before the Trade Deadline

I cannot see TMAC being resigned. . .even if he comes back at 100%
without a SIGNIFICANT pay reduction. I'm talking under 10 mil
I'm talking less than Ron Artest money

Rocket River

[t_mac1]

I think at the end of the day
TMAC is gone before the Trade Deadline

I cannot see TMAC being resigned. . .even if he comes back at 100%
without a SIGNIFICANT pay reduction. I'm talking under 10 mil
I'm talking less than Ron Artest money

Rocket River

if tracy can play 65-70 games, he will earn more than ron artest.

[djohn2oo8]

Ric Bucher believes that Mcgrady will be traded before the season

In response to someone's question:

"Excellent chance. He dissed the team handling his knee as he did. Bringing him back would only disrupt the flow/chemistry."

http://twitter.com/RicBucher

[Dave_78]

Raven, you're dead on here. This team has always starts slow and the more time to gel with new players the better. Home Court Advantage has to be a top priority for this team and they won't get it by re-tooling midseason.

Some you guys are beyond insane if you think Morey is going to show all of his cards in the media. I really can't understand how you don't understand that in order to get the best value for something you don't advertise that you will get rid of it one way or another by a certain date. It's really not that difficult guys.

Tracy is done as a Rocket. There is NO GOOD REASON to bring him back as a Rocket. He disrupts chemistry, never bought into Adelman's offense and is generally the polar opposite of everything that this team is built around (consistent effort, defense, toughness). I know some of you have visions of him coming back and being the player he was 2-3 years ago and that isn't happening but even if it was it isn't worth screwing up the team as it exists now. The guy's value is nearly 100% in his expiring contract so the "wait and see how he plays" attitude only exists among Tmac fans. Don't believe me then watch and see where he goes. It won't be to a team looking to become a contender it will be to a team looking to trade for and then dump his salary ASAP.

The deal to move McGrady will be done before training camp. That makes the most sense by far if the goal is for the team to succeed next season.

[t_mac1]

Ric Bucher believes that Mcgrady will be traded before the season

In response to someone's question:

"Excellent chance. He dissed the team handling his knee as he did. Bringing him back would only disrupt the flow/chemistry."

http://twitter.com/RicBucher

that's a popular thing to say that tracy will be traded. from the outside looking in, everybody expects so.

but remember, ric bucher swears on his grave that kobe bryant would never play another game for the lakers again. he said his inside sources told him so. unless someone has "real" inside source, morey is simply picking up the phone as he's supposed to. we will know if tracy will be traded. right now, there's nothing imminent.

[Rocket River]

if tracy can play 65-70 games, he will earn more than ron artest.
*IF* no one is going to sign him for that type of money based on an *IF*

He won't get a chance to prove it since he will be out a significant part of the season. [I doubt he makes training camp and I don't think he should rush anything]

Rocket River

[t_mac1]

*IF* no one is going to sign him for that type of money based on an *IF*

He won't get a chance to prove it since he will be out a significant part of the season. [I doubt he makes training camp and I don't think he should rush anything]

Rocket River

IF he's not gonna play that many games, chances are no team will sign him and he'll most likely retire.

[worzel gummidge]

Last year when Tracy shut it down I asked Charlie Palilo about it because I couldn't believe the Rockets weren't in on his surgery decision. I thought it might have been a collusion to collect on the policy.
That one year qualifier is for a medical/injury exception. It's also sometimes referred to as insurance by the media. If a player is out for a season a team can put in a claim to have that player's salary taken off the team's the salary cap.

However, the receiving team in a trade is not eligible for this exception. If a player already has this exception approved or carries a injury that could lead to this exception, the team that traded for him won't receive it.

McGrady's insurance is from outside the NBA. Thay's why a team trading for him can benefit from it. Mobley and LaFrentz had/have non-NBA insurance that other teams can trade for.

[Rocket River]

IF he's not gonna play that many games, chances are no team will sign him and he'll most likely retire.


That is why he must be traded for the rockets to get something of value
and the teams need to get him. . . so he comes off the books.

Letting him expire does not help the Rockets
They still over the cap.

Rocket River

[mikol13]

Raven, you're dead on here. This team has always starts slow and the more time to gel with new players the better. Home Court Advantage has to be a top priority for this team and they won't get it by re-tooling midseason.

Some you guys are beyond insane if you think Morey is going to show all of his cards in the media. I really can't understand how you don't understand that in order to get the best value for something you don't advertise that you will get rid of it one way or another by a certain date. It's really not that difficult guys.

Tracy is done as a Rocket. There is NO GOOD REASON to bring him back as a Rocket. He disrupts chemistry, never bought into Adelman's offense and is generally the polar opposite of everything that this team is built around (consistent effort, defense, toughness). I know some of you have visions of him coming back and being the player he was 2-3 years ago and that isn't happening but even if it was it isn't worth screwing up the team as it exists now. The guy's value is nearly 100% in his expiring contract so the "wait and see how he plays" attitude only exists among Tmac fans. Don't believe me then watch and see where he goes. It won't be to a team looking to become a contender it will be to a team looking to trade for and then dump his salary ASAP.

The deal to move McGrady will be done before training camp. That makes the most sense by far if the goal is for the team to succeed next season.


I agree with this completely!! This is someone who obviously gets it. I don't understand why so many keep drinking from the TM cup. He played well for a couple years. Thank you I appreciate that. But when is the last time it really felt like he was a part of this team? I don't want to hear the 22 game streak and into the playoffs that year. TM new the pressure was off then by not having Yao. The expectations of the team advancing were not high. He continually makes excuses, shows no heart and has not bought into this system. How great could he have been with if he had half the heart of even someone like a Battier not to even mention great players. There is no better time to move forward. Would a healthy Tracy have helped advance? Absolutely, But its over. Morey will make this team better and moving him is part of that equation. Thanks for the memories

[J.R.]

Ric Bucher believes that Mcgrady will be traded before the season

In response to someone's question:

"Excellent chance. He dissed the team handling his knee as he did. Bringing him back would only disrupt the flow/chemistry."

http://twitter.com/RicBucher


Yeah that was me asking :)

[saleem]

That is why he must be traded for the rockets to get something of value
and the teams need to get him. . . so he comes off the books.

Letting him expire does not help the Rockets
They still over the cap.

Rocket River
We don't know what might happen, but it's quite probable that we may not be able to get anything of value for his expiring contract either.Everyone knows that we are in a position of weakness and will try to dump their undesirables onto us even in these difficult financial times. I know that we will remain over the cap even if his contract expires.

[W22_STREAK]

I agree with this completely!! This is someone who obviously gets it. I don't understand why so many keep drinking from the TM cup. He played well for a couple years. Thank you I appreciate that. But when is the last time it really felt like he was a part of this team? I don't want to hear the 22 game streak and into the playoffs that year. TM new the pressure was off then by not having Yao. The expectations of the team advancing were not high. He continually makes excuses, shows no heart and has not bought into this system. How great could he have been with if he had half the heart of even someone like a Battier not to even mention great players. There is no better time to move forward. Would a healthy Tracy have helped advance? Absolutely, But its over. Morey will make this team better and moving him is part of that equation. Thanks for the memories

but the thing is who is willing to give up on their season EVEN BEFORE it has started??? we want legit star power with any major player we take back from tmacs massive expiring right? so can any of you actually envision us getting kevin martin or danny granger even before training camp has started???

[J.R.]

but the thing is who is willing to give up on their season EVEN BEFORE it has started??? we want legit star power with any major player we take back from tmacs massive expiring right? so can any of you actually envision us getting kevin martin or danny granger even before training camp has started???

You're right about wanting a legit star in return, though you're going to have your 5-10 teams from each conference that you can already mark off as not contenders or who are looking to rebuild or have financial problems. (Teams such as Detroit, Indiana, Charlotte, NJ, Milwaukee, Toronto, NY, and Washington in the East and Phoenix, Golden State, Minny, Memphis, OK City, LAC, and Sacramento in the West.) With exceptions to a few teams, I'm sure we could find a player on each team to bring back in a trade. But again, as you said, we want something legit in return.

[mikol13]

but the thing is who is willing to give up on their season EVEN BEFORE it has started??? we want legit star power with any major player we take back from tmacs massive expiring right? so can any of you actually envision us getting kevin martin or danny granger even before training camp has started???

I'm not so sure The team or teams we would be dealing with would be giving up. As well as everyone knows by now teams are losing money and may be willing to part with some "star power" If they can get rid of money elsewhere as well. That being said it may not be something blockbuster, may just be something that makes us better. I don't want to get rid of mac just for the sake of getting rid of him. I trust DM enough to think he will make us better
in whatever deal he makes.

[saleem]

I feel that the financially troubled teams will ask for Scolandry,Brooks and possibly Hayes or Lowry in addition to McGrady. They don't cost much and can help them out. That's going to put DM in a tough position. I think we will be lucky if we can get a guy like Carter in return.Most of the offers are going to be of a lesser quality than that.

[J.R.]

I feel that the financially troubled teams will ask for Scolandry,Brooks and possibly Hayes or Lowry in addition to McGrady. They don't cost much and can help them out. That's going to put DM in a tough position.

Probably so. I wouldnt mind throwing one of them in there to make things work, but it depends on who or what we are getting back. If your trading for a PF, you give a PF back. If you get a high pick and are planning to draft a PG, you can probably afford to send a PG back, etc.

[mikol13]

I feel that the financially troubled teams will ask for Scolandry,Brooks and possibly Hayes or Lowry in addition to McGrady. They don't cost much and can help them out. That's going to put DM in a tough position. I think we will be lucky if we can get a guy like Carter in return.Most of the offers are going to be of a lesser quality than that.


Yeah that is def a fear of mine. I don't want to gut this team. I was against getting Carter last season, think I would be a little more open to the idea. Maybe. :rolleyes:

[edwardc]

Raven- I agree that we are trying to and should be trying to expedite him as soon as possible.


Anyone that thinks just becaue DM dodges a question or does not come out and say "Yes, we are trying to get rid of Tracy" means that we are not trading him or trying to trade him is crazy.

Daryl Morey answers the questions in a political manner.

disagree just resign wafer & artest get a second tier big man an go for broke.

[Dave_78]

Teams will take McGrady without asking for anything else from the Rockets. They don't need to package Landry, Scola, Brooks or anyone else. There are teams out there telling themselves and their fans that this move will be to clear space to make a run at Lebron, Wade, Bosh etc.

Look at all the stupid, one-sided deals made all of the time and it isn't hard to imagine in this financial climate that someone is going to trade the immediate future for Tmac if they think they even have a tiny, tiny chance to land a franchise type guy next summer. Hell, even if they don't believe that a lot of these owners just don't want to keep paying up anymore.

There are plenty of teams who are not thinking of contending or even improving as a team in 2009-2010. It's all about money.

[RV6]

I think at the end of the day
TMAC is gone before the Trade Deadline

I cannot see TMAC being resigned. . .even if he comes back at 100%
without a SIGNIFICANT pay reduction. I'm talking under 10 mil
I'm talking less than Ron Artest money

Rocket River


i dont know about resigning him, but i agree he may be gone by feb, i just think Morey will wait for the right deal and/or a healthy tmac rather than going for a safe deal just get rid of tmac by the start of the season

[RV6]

Raven, you're dead on here. This team has always starts slow and the more time to gel with new players the better. Home Court Advantage has to be a top priority for this team and they won't get it by re-tooling midseason. .

Tmac isn't going to bring in anywhere neal equal talent if you trade him this summer. Instead he's going to get you an ok player and some scrubs as filler. Morey already said he's not making a trade that's just going to bring in dead weight. Maybe we can get one above average starter, but then the question is, does he fit? i dont' see them bringing in guys to stack a position that's already filled either....and once again, it's not certain they'll even re-tool in Feb, they may just keep tmac or deal him way before Feb if he returns by opening day.

Some you guys are beyond insane if you think Morey is going to show all of his cards in the media. I really can't understand how you don't understand that in order to get the best value for something you don't advertise that you will get rid of it one way or another by a certain date. It's really not that difficult guys..

The discussion wasn't over Morey stating he wanted to get rid of Tmac by a certain date, that definitely is stupid because everyone will bid low up until your deadline...but again, that wasn't what was being discussed..the other poster never clarified what he meant, but i was refering to the fact that Morey has no leverage to gain by denying it because Tmac is out right now, so teams are going to bid low anyway because as of right now they'd be trading for a player who may not play well again. Whether Morey comes out and says he's shopping tmac or not, the offers won't change because Tmac's status won't change right now. Now if Tmac were already back, then yes you wouldn't say it publicly so other teams would think they had to bid higher to get you to trade him...but right now they aren't going to do that...

Tracy is done as a Rocket. There is NO GOOD REASON to bring him back as a Rocket. He disrupts chemistry, never bought into Adelman's offense and is generally the polar opposite of everything that this team is built around (consistent effort, defense, toughness). I know some of you have visions of him coming back and being the player he was 2-3 years ago and that isn't happening but even if it was it isn't worth screwing up the team as it exists now. The guy's value is nearly 100% in his expiring contract so the "wait and see how he plays" attitude only exists among Tmac fans. Don't believe me then watch and see where he goes. It won't be to a team looking to become a contender it will be to a team looking to trade for and then dump his salary ASAP.

The deal to move McGrady will be done before training camp. That makes the most sense by far if the goal is for the team to succeed next season.

i think waiting to see if he can play well is a VERY GOOD reason to keep him around because at worst it will driv eup his value and get you more....i'm not even that big of a tmac fan and blasted him for the way he handled the knee situation...what i want is what's best for the team, PERIOD..all fans should want that, i think the ones who just want tmac gone ASAP possibly just hate tmac....i dont care if he stays or goes, i just care about doing what puts us in the best position to win a ring, regardless of whether that is pulling the trigger on a good deal thie summer, a deal suring the season, or even keeping a healthy Tmac...to limit your options would mean increasing your chances of getting less value and that may end up being the difference between a conf finals exit or a ring..if you want team success then you explore ALL possible options and go for the best one

[RV6]

I'm not so sure The team or teams we would be dealing with would be giving up. As well as everyone knows by now teams are losing money and may be willing to part with some "star power" If they can get rid of money elsewhere as well. That being said it may not be something blockbuster, may just be something that makes us better. I don't want to get rid of mac just for the sake of getting rid of him. I trust DM enough to think he will make us better
in whatever deal he makes.

Yet you agreed with a poster who sees no point in keeping tmac around and wants him gone ASAP even if that means losing out on the possibility of getting more in return for him if he returns and plays well :confused:


Let's keep in mind that Tracy is hyped about coming back to prove doubters. I don't believe some things he says, but i don't think any man would take the criticism Tmac is getting and do nothing about it, we'd all come out swinging...so i'd expect tmac to come out on a high at first, that alone would drive up his value right off the bat...maybe he'll disrupt our offense, but i can see him doing it by having some very good individual performances and that's when we can take advantage of it since his value would be rising and we'd know for sure he wouldn't fit as well..

[RV6]

Teams will take McGrady without asking for anything else from the Rockets. They don't need to package Landry, Scola, Brooks or anyone else. There are teams out there telling themselves and their fans that this move will be to clear space to make a run at Lebron, Wade, Bosh etc.

Look at all the stupid, one-sided deals made all of the time and it isn't hard to imagine in this financial climate that someone is going to trade the immediate future for Tmac if they think they even have a tiny, tiny chance to land a franchise type guy next summer. Hell, even if they don't believe that a lot of these owners just don't want to keep paying up anymore.

There are plenty of teams who are not thinking of contending or even improving as a team in 2009-2010. It's all about money.

which deals? Memphis made one when it trade Gasol, but even they can't afford something stupid like that again because they pissed off fans so much that another blunder like that would hurt them in sales dramatically.....those one sided deals are rarely money-based...usually it's a mix of a disgruntled player(s), money issues, and/or talent that doesn't fit. We'd have to find a team that 's got a combination of those, just like we'd have to have a combination of those to actively trade tmac. Right now his contract isn't really hurting us so there's no real money issue. With the team saying they want him back and tmac saying he wants to come back, i don't see anyone being disgruntled...and i don't think we can clearly say he doesnt fit when he only played last year while injured AND during a time when Ron and shane kept coming in and out of lineups. Let's not forget that the inconsistency in the lineup wasn't just tmac and he wasn't the only one who suffered or "didnt fit", there were times when Ron and others didn't appear to fit either during that stretch full of injuries. I feel like Morey prefers to wait and see if tmac can be healthy and then see if he can find a fit if he's got all his skills back before dumping him on another team...

[leebigez]

which deals? Memphis made one when it trade Gasol, but even they can't afford something stupid like that again because they pissed off fans so much that another blunder like that would hurt them in sales dramatically.....those one sided deals are rarely money-based...usually it's a mix of a disgruntled player(s), money issues, and/or talent that doesn't fit. We'd have to find a team that 's got a combination of those, just like we'd have to have a combination of those to actively trade tmac. Right now his contract isn't really hurting us so there's no real money issue. With the team saying they want him back and tmac saying he wants to come back, i don't see anyone being disgruntled...and i don't think we can clearly say he doesnt fit when he only played last year while injured AND during a time when Ron and shane kept coming in and out of lineups. Let's not forget that the inconsistency in the lineup wasn't just tmac and he wasn't the only one who suffered or "didnt fit", there were times when Ron and others didn't appear to fit either during that stretch full of injuries. I feel like Morey prefers to wait and see if tmac can be healthy and then see if he can find a fit if he's got all his skills back before dumping him on another team...

You snooze, you lose. It really doesn't make sense to keep tracy till deadline. Teams are willing to tell thier fans they are going to clear room and make a run at the 2010 sweepstakes. It happens time and time again that you can trade a player like tracy amd then trade him again. Rasheed was the last known example, but waiting on him to combat really put s the team in a bind. It seems to me make the trade and move on instead of waiting.

[Marcus Bryant]

You snooze, you lose. It really doesn't make sense to keep tracy till deadline. Teams are willing to tell thier fans they are going to clear room and make a run at the 2010 sweepstakes. It happens time and time again that you can trade a player like tracy amd then trade him again. Rasheed was the last known example, but waiting on him to combat really put s the team in a bind. It seems to me make the trade and move on instead of waiting.
exactly, if you plan to trade T-Mac then this is the time. I would rather keep him till the season ends if he is still on our list by the deadline. With his 23m off our book, we will have enough room for Lebron James, or any other superstar who becomes free in that summer. Unless we can get a powerful player that would possibly make us a serious contender next season, the best choice for us is keeping T-Mac till his contract expires IMHO.

[mikol13]

Yet you agreed with a poster who sees no point in keeping tmac around and wants him gone ASAP even if that means losing out on the possibility of getting more in return for him if he returns and plays well :confused:


Let's keep in mind that Tracy is hyped about coming back to prove doubters. I don't believe some things he says, but i don't think any man would take the criticism Tmac is getting and do nothing about it, we'd all come out swinging...so i'd expect tmac to come out on a high at first, that alone would drive up his value right off the bat...maybe he'll disrupt our offense, but i can see him doing it by having some very good individual performances and that's when we can take advantage of it since his value would be rising and we'd know for sure he wouldn't fit as well..


Unless I'm mistaken I don't remember saying I wanted to get rid of him for nothing. And lets be honest, tracy wants to come back strong for another contract. I think it has NOTHING to do with proving doubters wrong. I'm for trading him that is true, but think his value will not be higher than now due to his contract expiring and insurance covering it till he returns.

[Marcus Bryant]

Rockets will surely finish all their major moves before the training camp started, but I won't feel surprised if Morey makes some "minor" moves like the Artest trade he made last year.

[Dubious]

With his 23m off our book, we will have enough room for Lebron James, or any other superstar who becomes free in that summer.

No, we won't.


There are plenty of teams who are not thinking of contending or even improving as a team in 2009-2010. It's all about money.

Please list the teams with a legitimate chance to sign one of the Big 3 and elaborate on their salary cap situation, what effect trading for Tracy has on their 2010 season and what $23 million dollars worth of contracts the Rockets would have to take in return.

[jump shooter]

Teams will take McGrady without asking for anything else from the Rockets. They don't need to package Landry, Scola, Brooks or anyone else. There are teams out there telling themselves and their fans that this move will be to clear space to make a run at Lebron, Wade, Bosh etc.

Look at all the stupid, one-sided deals made all of the time and it isn't hard to imagine in this financial climate that someone is going to trade the immediate future for Tmac if they think they even have a tiny, tiny chance to land a franchise type guy next summer. Hell, even if they don't believe that a lot of these owners just don't want to keep paying up anymore.

There are plenty of teams who are not thinking of contending or even improving as a team in 2009-2010. It's all about money.

Bingo. Especially with teams knowing the fact that they actually don't have to pay T-Mac if he sits this season with the insurance clause and his contract comes off the books next season. You can't lose. Tracy's contract this season is a gift from the salary cap gods. Morey has got to be one of the most popular GMs in the league right now and I hope he pays for unlimited minutes on his cell phone plan.

[RV6]

Bingo. Especially with teams knowing the fact that they actually don't have to pay T-Mac if he sits this season with the insurance clause and his contract comes off the books next season. You can't lose. Tracy's contract this season is a gift from the salary cap gods. Morey has got to be one of the most popular GMs in the league right now and I hope he pays for unlimited minutes on his cell phone plan.


Tell me why any team, as of now, would gamble and assume Tmac will sit this whole season when the current timetable has him coming back on opening day??? It's not a perfect situation for us, yes the insurance plan would pay, if he sits out, and had Tmac announced he may not be back or would take most of the year, then teams would be salivating, but he didn't, so teams aren't...

[RV6]

You snooze, you lose. It really doesn't make sense to keep tracy till deadline. Teams are willing to tell thier fans they are going to clear room and make a run at the 2010 sweepstakes. It happens time and time again that you can trade a player like tracy amd then trade him again. Rasheed was the last known example, but waiting on him to combat really put s the team in a bind. It seems to me make the trade and move on instead of waiting.

they don't HAVE to keep him until the deadline, it's just not wise to settle for a summer deadline deal.....and not at all teams are going to just want to clear space at any cost...'sheed was traded for peanuts, do we want peanuts? And he was HEALTHY, as of now, tmac isn't...

[jump shooter]

Tell me why any team, as of now, would gamble and assume Tmac will sit this whole season when the current timetable has him coming back on opening day??? It's not a perfect situation for us, yes the insurance plan would pay, if he sits out, and had Tmac announced he may not be back or would take most of the year, then teams would be salivating, but he didn't, so teams aren't...

Well since your the resident expert on T-Mac and when exactly he's coming back and the expert on what Morey's going to do and should do and what other teams are and arent doing. You tell me what is the probability of a 30yr injury prone (back, shoulder ect) T-Mac playing a full season after microfractive surgery on his bad knee and shoulder surgery as well. Every game he misses due to injury is about $280,000 you don't have to pay in salary, so if he misses conservatively 25 games (he misses around 22.5 games a season with the rockets and without major surgery) this season. Thats $7,000,000 a team doesn't have to pay on a $23,000,000 contract which is coming off the books at the end of next season. Cash strapped teams would be out of there minds not to be salivating over Tracy's contract.

[Dave_78]

Please list the teams with a legitimate chance to sign one of the Big 3 and elaborate on their salary cap situation, what effect trading for Tracy has on their 2010 season and what $23 million dollars worth of contracts the Rockets would have to take in return.

It isn't that simply and you know it. Three-way trades are made, GM's have deals working under the table and a million other issues come up out of nowhere to make things possible. Trades happen all of the time where nobody, including the experts, saw them coming.

Use your brain.

[Dave_78]

RV6 -

I respectfully disagree with you about where Tmac's value is. I don't see any teams out there trading for him because of what he does on the court so waiting to see how he plays is pointless. IMO, his value is in that contract and he knows it, Morey knows and everyone else in the league knows it. If anything, the closer to the deadline we get the less value he has. Of course, we won't know who is right until the trade is made but I am sure he won't be here in October.

[leebigez]

they don't HAVE to keep him until the deadline, it's just not wise to settle for a summer deadline deal.....and not at all teams are going to just want to clear space at any cost...'sheed was traded for peanuts, do we want peanuts? And he was HEALTHY, as of now, tmac isn't...

Sheed was ready to go on a contract year on a losing , young team. I don't care what they get for tracy as long as its a couple of quality players. Shaq was traded for Butler,Odom,and Brian Grant. None of which were on his level. Baron davis and vince carter have been traded for lessor players also. The point is get the best you can get and get them off your roster and move on. I've said it before, Jackson,Maggette,and Turiaf for mcgrady and barry makes al the sense for for both teams. GSW get a get rid 3 longer contracts of guys who can play and continue to allow them to run with the younger guys and since the rockets made the dumb notion of win now and are building around a injury prone big, it gives them a backup center/pf, a playmaker sg with championship experience, and a scoring wing off the bench. It all fits and add up and will keep the slight window of hope open. That would also allow the rockets to let wafer and artest go unless they trade battier. They just need to move on or they will be left holding the bag of hope and maybe no one wants that deal at the deadline like wally's deal.

[jump shooter]

Tell me why any team, as of now, would gamble and assume Tmac will sit this whole season when the current timetable has him coming back on opening day??? It's not a perfect situation for us, yes the insurance plan would pay, if he sits out, and had Tmac announced he may not be back or would take most of the year, then teams would be salivating, but he didn't, so teams aren't...

Just to let you know what Morey just said on the radio. T-Mac probably isn't coming back until December or March. That's a very wide time table. And teams are calling alot about T-Macs contract of which you say" they aren"t. I don't understand your thinking, but everybody is entitled to there own opinion.

[leebigez]

Just to let you know what Morey just said on the radio. T-Mac probably isn't coming back until December or March. That's a very wide time table. And teams are calling alot about T-Macs contract of which you say" they aren"t. I don't understand your thinking, but everybody is entitled to there ownwrong opinion.

I fixed for you

[RedRowdy111]

The big question is when are we getting a backup Center...and who!

[jump shooter]

I fixed for you

LOL :D :D

[RV6]

Unless I'm mistaken I don't remember saying I wanted to get rid of him for nothing. And lets be honest, tracy wants to come back strong for another contract. I think it has NOTHING to do with proving doubters wrong. I'm for trading him that is true, but think his value will not be higher than now due to his contract expiring and insurance covering it till he returns.

i wasn't trying to imply you did, but you did agree completely with a poster who was willing to just to set the roster...


I think a part of tracy wants to prove doubters wrong, hence "i'll have the last laught", so i wouldn't say it has nothing to do with it..

[RV6]

Well since your the resident expert on T-Mac and when exactly he's coming back and the expert on what Morey's going to do and should do and what other teams are and arent doing. You tell me what is the probability of a 30yr injury prone (back, shoulder ect) T-Mac playing a full season after microfractive surgery on his bad knee and shoulder surgery as well. Every game he misses due to injury is about $280,000 you don't have to pay in salary, so if he misses conservatively 25 games (he misses around 22.5 games a season with the rockets and without major surgery) this season. Thats $7,000,000 a team doesn't have to pay on a $23,000,000 contract which is coming off the books at the end of next season. Cash strapped teams would be out of there minds not to be salivating over Tracy's contract.

you can become an expert too, just pay attention to what THEY ARE ACTUALLY SAYING.

You can state your side of things and your own reasoning all day long, but that means squat, just like my pure reasoning and opinion means squat, which is why i try to include what the team is stating and then try to figure out where they are going with it. YOU may see tmac and see a 30 yr old injury prone wash up, but that doesn't mean that's what Morey is seeing, which is evident by his interview TODAY, i guess i'm more of an expert now cus i actually listened to it :rolleyes:

[RV6]

Just to let you know what Morey just said on the radio. T-Mac probably isn't coming back until December or March. That's a very wide time table. And teams are calling alot about T-Macs contract of which you say" they aren"t. I don't understand your thinking, but everybody is entitled to there own opinion.

yes he did, and i'll go with that timetable now since that's what he said, prior to that he had only gone with the timetable tmac mentioned...and i never wrote teams wouldn't be calling about tmac's contract, i wrote we'd getmore value if tmac came back healthy and that not a lot of teams are willing to give up big talent just for cap relief, just because a lot fo teams are calling doesn't mean the deals are good ones, which is probably why he hasn't been traded yet.

[RV6]

Sheed was ready to go on a contract year on a losing , young team. I don't care what they get for tracy as long as its a couple of quality players. Shaq was traded for Butler,Odom,and Brian Grant. None of which were on his level. Baron davis and vince carter have been traded for lessor players also. The point is get the best you can get and get them off your roster and move on. I've said it before, Jackson,Maggette,and Turiaf for mcgrady and barry makes al the sense for for both teams. GSW get a get rid 3 longer contracts of guys who can play and continue to allow them to run with the younger guys and since the rockets made the dumb notion of win now and are building around a injury prone big, it gives them a backup center/pf, a playmaker sg with championship experience, and a scoring wing off the bench. It all fits and add up and will keep the slight window of hope open. That would also allow the rockets to let wafer and artest go unless they trade battier. They just need to move on or they will be left holding the bag of hope and maybe no one wants that deal at the deadline like wally's deal.

i still think health plays a big part in the risk teams are willing to take...sheed and shaq were both still healthy, and shaq brought in some really good talent in odom and butler...i'd be glad to get a deal like that, i'm not just saying we need one player back of equal talent, if we can get 2 solid guys back then that works as well, but when you place a cut off date to trade a currently injured player, we're more likely to get a deal like Carter's, where they get the "carter" in tmac and we get back back role guys who make a lot of money.

[jump shooter]

yes he did, and i'll go with that timetable now since that's what he said, prior to that he had only gone with the timetable tmac mentioned...and i never wrote teams wouldn't be calling about tmac's contract, i wrote we'd getmore value if tmac came back healthy and that not a lot of teams are willing to give up big talent just for cap relief, just because a lot fo teams are calling doesn't mean the deals are good ones, which is probably why he hasn't been traded yet.

But teams are calling and I don't profess to know what deals are being offered, Im not privy to those covert GM conversations. And again if you haven't realized it, we are in one of the toughest economic slowdowns since the 1930s, teams are looking for financial relief in the worst way and I do think that teams would be willing to give up some very good talent along with a bad contract or two for that relief. Listen you can spin this thing anyway you want, but in my opinion this is the most opportune time to trade Tracy and get the most for him. If Tracy potentially comes back sometime in January, a team would look at saving anywhere between 8 to 11million dollars in salary. It's only common sense in thinking that Tracy's contract is highly coveted around the NBA. His value is at its highest now.

[HowsMyDriving]

i think the thread title is a little wrong/misleading.

i think IDEALLY, the rockets would prefer to have all their significant moves made before training camp. this season is too important too go into camp with a lot of question marks.

however, that can only happen if the rockets can get good value for tracy's contract before the season starts, which is much less likely to happen than it is at the deadline when teams know where they stand competitively and from a salary/lux tax perspective.

in this case, i think the ideal case and the most likely case are not aligned.

[RV6]

But teams are calling and I don't profess to know what deals are being offered, Im not privy to those covert GM conversations. And again if you haven't realized it, we are in one of the toughest economic slowdowns since the 1930s, teams are looking for financial relief in the worst way and I do think that teams would be willing to give up some very good talent along with a bad contract or two for that relief. Listen you can spin this thing anyway you want, but in my opinion this is the most opportune time to trade Tracy and get the most for him. If Tracy potentially comes back sometime in January, a team would look at saving anywhere between 8 to 11million dollars in salary. It's only common sense in thinking that Tracy's contract is highly coveted around the NBA. His value is at its highest now.

the only spin im putting on this is the same one Morey is, he keeps talking about how tmac has what they need and thats why they are reluctant to trading him...like i mentioned earlier, Morey has said he doesn't just want to trade tmac and stack a certain position or bring in bodies to fill a roster, he want a player or players who fit. The best value we can get now may be good, but what if it doesn't fit? What if it doesn't make us that much better? That could possibly takes us in the wrong direction, adding talent isn't always an A+ move. I think Morey is worried we'd add solid role players, and then come playoff time (and he specifically said tmac is someone they'd need in the playoffs) we'll be in the same exact position, keeping the game close due to our great role guys, but unable to finish because we still don't have that closer or talent who can make something happen..

[RV6]

i think the thread title is a little wrong/misleading.

i think IDEALLY, the rockets would prefer to have all their significant moves made before training camp. this season is too important too go into camp with a lot of question marks.

however, that can only happen if the rockets can get good value for tracy's contract before the season starts, which is much less likely to happen than it is at the deadline when teams know where they stand competitively and from a salary/lux tax perspective.

in this case, i think the ideal case and the most likely case are not aligned.

i agree 100%

[jump shooter]

the only spin im putting on this is the same one Morey is, he keeps talking about how tmac has what they need and thats why they are reluctant to trading him...like i mentioned earlier, Morey has said he doesn't just want to trade tmac and stack a certain position or bring in bodies to fill a roster, he want a player or players who fit. The best value we can get now may be good, but what if it doesn't fit? What if it doesn't make us that much better? That could possibly takes us in the wrong direction, adding talent isn't always an A+ move. I think Morey is worried we'd add solid role players, and then come playoff time (and he specifically said tmac is someone they'd need in the playoffs) we'll be in the same exact position, keeping the game close due to our great role guys, but unable to finish because we still don't have that closer or talent who can make something happen..

Who here is saying Morey is going to trade T-Mac for a bunch of role players, You ask 'What if it doesn't fit', you can say that for any trade RV6. What I keep saying to nauseum is that I think an oppossing team will trade a player that is more than just a role player ie.(diffrence maker), but at the same time the rockets may have to take back an overpaid role player ie.(another GMs financial mistake) in the process.
Not to change the subject, but let me ask you in your opinion how long will it take Tracy if he comes back say in January, to mentally readjuste his game with his lack of former explosion (he won't be able to do all the things he used to do athletically) and knock off the rust from not playing competitively in almost a year? And even a better question is how many games will it take to rebuild or reastablish chemistry once he comes back or if he comes back towards the middle of the season? And how many losses in the standings will that cost the team?

[RV6]

Who here is saying Morey is going to trade T-Mac for a bunch of role players, You ask 'What if it doesn't fit', you can say that for any trade RV6. What I keep saying to nauseum is that I think an oppossing team will trade a player that is more than just a role player ie.(diffrence maker), but at the same time the rockets may have to take back an overpaid role player ie.(another GMs financial mistake) in the process.
Not to change the subject, but let me ask you in your opinion how long will it take Tracy if he comes back say in January, to mentally readjuste his game with his lack of former explosion (he won't be able to do all the things he used to do athletically) and knock off the rust from not playing competitively in almost a year? And even a better question is how many games will it take to rebuild or reastablish chemistry once he comes back or if he comes back towards the middle of the season? And how many losses in the standings will that cost the team?

i'm discussing this based on what the OP wrote, that being they'll trade tmac this summer just to get rid of him and set the roster...thinking that way limits your options to this summer and would force you to accept the best of those offers which could likely be a deal for role players, which is probably what Moreys been offered and why he's not likely to trade tmac yet.

when i say "doesnt fit" i mean something very obvious, like getting another PF who's not going to be able to play center or Sf as well. Let's say someone with the talent of boozer. He would be a good talent to get as far as value is concerned, but would he take us over the hump? Probably not because he doesn't fit our needs, he just reinforces one of our strengths. So while some fans may jump at an exchange like that, Morey may back off because of the fit.

I do also believe if we get offered a "star" we'd have to take on a bad contract as well, but what i'm saying is that we're likely to get the bulk of those offers later down the line, while right now we're getting mostly lower bids. Obviously i can't be sure of it, but again, if Morey is taking many calls, but isnt pulling the trigger, then i think we can assume the trades are low bids/bad fit.

As for your question, it all depends on how the team is doing. Like i mentioned in a previous post, the inconsistent play last year due to the changing lineups weren't just because of tmac, but also because of ron and shane's injuries. In feb the team had to adjust not just to Tmac leaving, but shane and ron rounding back into shape. So my point is if we have all kinds of stuff going on like that then Tmac coming back won't be what defines our season.

However, let's assume we don't have all that other stuff. I expect the team to come in and mesh right away since it's going to be pretty much the same guys from last season who finished the year very strong as far as chemistry is concerned. If tmac does come back that late, i don't think it's going to be that big of a disruption to the team, mainly because it's one player to deal with, as oppose to last season when it was 3 (tmac leaving and ron/shane coming back), and then there was the rafer trade, so they also had to deal with mixing in Lowry and adjusting to Brooks' new role. It took them under 2 months to make the major adjustments then, so i don't expect one guy to be more trouble, even if it is tmac because i expect him to have a smaller role so you're not making any drastic changes, like going from revolving the offense around yao to yao AND tmac...at least i don't expect it to be that way...i think the timeline isn't to when tmac will feel healthy, but when he will be healthy and back to playing comfortably, so when he's back i'd expect him to be ready as a ball player and just need to get ready as a part of the offense...so based on that i'd say about a month and a half to integrate Tmac into the offense comfortably

[jump shooter]

i'm discussing this based on what the OP wrote, that being they'll trade tmac this summer just to get rid of him and set the roster...thinking that way limits your options to this summer and would force you to accept the best of those offers which could likely be a deal for role players, which is probably what Moreys been offered and why he's not likely to trade tmac yet.

when i say "doesnt fit" i mean something very obvious, like getting another PF who's not going to be able to play center or Sf as well. Let's say someone with the talent of boozer. He would be a good talent to get as far as value is concerned, but would he take us over the hump? Probably not because he doesn't fit our needs, he just reinforces one of our strengths. So while some fans may jump at an exchange like that, Morey may back off because of the fit.

I do also believe if we get offered a "star" we'd have to take on a bad contract as well, but what i'm saying is that we're likely to get the bulk of those offers later down the line, while right now we're getting mostly lower bids. Obviously i can't be sure of it, but again, if Morey is taking many calls, but isnt pulling the trigger, then i think we can assume the trades are low bids/bad fit.

As for your question, it all depends on how the team is doing. Like i mentioned in a previous post, the inconsistent play last year due to the changing lineups weren't just because of tmac, but also because of ron and shane's injuries. In feb the team had to adjust not just to Tmac leaving, but shane and ron rounding back into shape. So my point is if we have all kinds of stuff going on like that then Tmac coming back won't be what defines our season.

However, let's assume we don't have all that other stuff. I expect the team to come in and mesh right away since it's going to be pretty much the same guys from last season who finished the year very strong as far as chemistry is concerned. If tmac does come back that late, i don't think it's going to be that big of a disruption to the team, mainly because it's one player to deal with, as oppose to last season when it was 3 (tmac leaving and ron/shane coming back), and then there was the rafer trade, so they also had to deal with mixing in Lowry and adjusting to Brooks' new role. It took them under 2 months to make the major adjustments then, so i don't expect one guy to be more trouble, even if it is tmac because i expect him to have a smaller role so you're not making any drastic changes, like going from revolving the offense around yao to yao AND tmac...at least i don't expect it to be that way...i think the timeline isn't to when tmac will feel healthy, but when he will be healthy and back to playing comfortably, so when he's back i'd expect him to be ready as a ball player and just need to get ready as a part of the offense...so based on that i'd say about a month and a half to integrate Tmac into the offense comfortably

A month and half fully healthy is probably about right. But the big question is will he accept a less role?