Clutchfans to Ron: Pass the ball.

[Will]

I've already had to erase Game 1 from my DVR. But if one of you guys has it and is willing to take the time, maybe you can verify this. My recollection is that Ron did more passing in that game than dribbling and shooting, and that his ball distribution was crucial to our success in that game. Does the video confirm that?

We've managed to win two more games despite his subsequent dribbling and jacking. But to take Game 7 at their place, we need the unselfish Ron of Game 1.

Move the ball, Ron. Please. It's the most important thing you can do to affect the outcome of this series.

[Kracka0476]

He is getting better about it. He made some timely shots last night.

[durvasa]

I know Morey has some stat somewhere that shows when Artest takes more than 5 dribbles in a half court set, our offensive efficiency goes down the tubes. I think Artest feels he needs to be the man with Yao and Tracy out of the picture, but this team's best shot on any given offensive possession is to just run the offense and trust your teammates. Take the open shot when its there with confidence (Rockets have a tendency, sometimes, to overpass), but Artest needs to have better awareness of where the defense is coming from and who he can get the ball to.

[saleem]

I've already had to erase Game 1 from my DVR. But if one of you guys has it and is willing to take the time, maybe you can verify this. My recollection is that Ron did more passing in that game than dribbling and shooting, and that his ball distribution was crucial to our success in that game. Does the video confirm that?

We've managed to win two more games despite his subsequent dribbling and jacking. But to take Game 7 at their place, we need the unselfish Ron of Game 1.

Move the ball, Ron. Please. It's the most important thing you can do to affect the outcome of this series.
Not only does he have to pass the ball but he has to take higher percentage shots,keep the turnovers down and play good defense. In Game 1,Yao was there now Ron feels that he needs to take over because of his absence but he needs to play smart.

[SuperVon]

i totally agree, artest is so much more effective when passing.
I like it when he attacks and shoots the elbow jumper. He should use it more often.

[BugOnAHarley]

I still have it recorded and just turned it on. All I can say is, I miss seeing Yao on the floor. Glad they are winning without him though.

The quick drive and dunk by Artest was sick to take the early lead back.

Artest did have 7 assists in that game.

[echu888]

Am I alone in seeing that when Artest shoots, often the ball will go into the hoop then come back out?

He DOES take some crazy, unadvisable shots, but even those, going by memory, tend to not be too far off the mark.

It gives me the impression that he is generally pretty close to hitting his shots but having the strength that he does perhaps means he just shoots with a little too much extra sometimes, and it rattles out.

Accurate or no?

[saleem]

It's unrealistic to expect too many assists since our other scorers could be taken out on the road, but Ron does need to look to involve them and just as importantly stop taking bad shots. He will need to play closer to the basket in this pivotal game for sure.

[saleem]

Am I alone in seeing that when Artest shoots, often the ball will go into the hoop then come back out?

He DOES take some crazy, unadvisable shots, but even those, going by memory, tend to not be too far off the mark.

It gives me the impression that he is generally pretty close to hitting his shots but having the strength that he does perhaps means he just shoots with a little too much extra sometimes, and it rattles out.

Accurate or no?
I think it relates to his technique,which isn't very good.

[Deckard]

I've already had to erase Game 1 from my DVR. But if one of you guys has it and is willing to take the time, maybe you can verify this. My recollection is that Ron did more passing in that game than dribbling and shooting, and that his ball distribution was crucial to our success in that game. Does the video confirm that?

We've managed to win two more games despite his subsequent dribbling and jacking. But to take Game 7 at their place, we need the unselfish Ron of Game 1.

Move the ball, Ron. Please. It's the most important thing you can do to affect the outcome of this series.
So true. Putting aside another clunker in the shooting department, I would have said he'd had a pretty good game, but Ron can't seem to hold his tendency to do it all himself in check for an entire game. When we needed some buckets, he ignored a wide open Battier for the trey at least twice. We ended up with a missed shot and the Fakers having a chance at scoring on the other end. Having said that, Artest was possessed by his demons just a few times. Could have been worse.

He has to find his shot Sunday. Winning's going to be hard enough as it is. Ron can be the difference.

[cson]

He passed much more in Gm1 and in the "Mother's Day Miracle." And to add to what durvasa said about the dribble: When Artest has the ball he pulls defenders in, by the fourth dribble however, they know he's faking.

[mulletman]

When we needed some buckets, he ignored a wide open Battier for the trey at least twice.

Having said that, Artest was possessed by his demons just a few times. Could have been worse.

Ron is at his worst when the Rockets start getting behind. That's usually when he panics, and thats when he really starts trying to take over. From there, it just snowballs for the Rockets, because a panicking Ron means even more over-dribbling and horrible shot selection.

[DaDakota]

Just move your body and don't make stupid decisions......

Wow, that is asking a lot from Ron.

:D

DD

[Deckard]

Ron is at his worst when the Rockets start getting behind. That's usually when he panics, and thats when he really starts trying to take over. From there, it just snowballs for the Rockets, because a panicking Ron means even more over-dribbling and horrible shot selection.
At least he still has a positive impact on the court, warts and all. Saw this great image in the Washington Post:

http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2009/05/15/PH2009051500096.jpg

[erod]

At least he still has a positive impact on the court, warts and all. Saw this great image in the Washington Post:

http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2009/05/15/PH2009051500096.jpg


lmao....it looks like there is a tornado and Luke Walton is holding on to Ron for dear life.

Artest actually started out pretty good in game 6 as far as passing is concerned. He seemed to want to take those ill advised shots but then passed it around. The result? A bad ass first half.

However, he did go back to his old ways in the 2nd half. Someone already touched on it, but I think it really is related to him thinking he needs to take over on offense. Hopefully he continues to improve his shot selection.

[pmac]

He thinks much too highly of his own ball handling skills.

I'm fine with Ron dribbling as long as it comes while he's backing down Ariza or Shannon Brown. That's where he helps our offense. Their defense converges on him and it creates open buckets for our other players. But, yes, if he is out past the arc (or near it) he needs to pass the ball or shoot a set shot.

[DieHard Rocket]

Ron was very calculated and smart last night. He KNOWS we can't win when he's dribbling for 10 seconds and hoisting up an off-balance jumper. Last night you could tell he was concentrating on doing the right thing, starting right off the bat when he faked the three and took it inside.

I think I can only recall 2 possessions where he had to take a low percentage shot.

[NBilities]

ATEST is stronger in NBA LIVE than in the real world, especially his 3-point and the ability of dunk

[archinkent]

yup. as much as i like ron, the baskets he made in the last game were mostly horrible shots, and he will have less chances of making them in LA.

[Almu]

How about if we also keep him from guarding Kobe?

Whatever happened to Artest guarding top offensive people one on one? Kobe goes right by him!

[Mr.Scary]

How about if we also keep him from guarding Kobe?

Whatever happened to Artest guarding top offensive people one on one? Kobe goes right by him!

Honestly there isnt anyone in the league who can really guard one on one a determined Kobe. Artest does a good job as anyone. Between him and Shane its the best job anyone can expect.

[jopatmc]

Ron was very calculated and smart last night. He KNOWS we can't win when he's dribbling for 10 seconds and hoisting up an off-balance jumper. Last night you could tell he was concentrating on doing the right thing, starting right off the bat when he faked the three and took it inside.

I think I can only recall 2 possessions where he had to take a low percentage shot.


LOL. The enigma of Artest.

It is interesting to me that Morey tracks offensive efficiency regarding Artest's dribbles. I have been saying since midseason that it breaks down this way:

1. If Ron is on the perimeter spotting or facing up, he should take a maximum of 3-4 dribbles and either pass or drive to the basket. If he does not have an open look after 3-4 dribbles for his jumper, then he has to give it up.

2. If Ron is posting up in the block area with his back to the basket, he can take a few more dribbles while working his man as long as the double does not come. Ron has the advantage against most defenders in the league on the blocks. If he gets the ball on the block against a bigger, heavier, taller player, he is too quick to be stopped. As long as the double doesn't come, he should take the play and take as many dribbles as he needs to get the shot/foul. If he gets the ball, back to the basket, againt a smaller player, as long as the double doesn't come, he should work his defender over for the basket and/or foul.


Ron's problem offensively is he has such a varied skill set that he tries to take the ball and dribble it into his scoring position. He KNOWS that if he can get himself into scoring position, he cannot be stopped. The problem with Ron is he doesn't realize that he cannot dribble himself into scoring position and he cannot shake smaller quicker defenders from the perimeter with his dribble to get into scoring position.

I am really hoping that two things happen this offseason. 1. We re-sign Artest. He is worth it. 2. That someone from the Rox coaching staff sits down with Ron and game tape and shows him how to define his offensive game better. Damn, when that boy spots up from 3 and is open........it is freakn money. And when he gets on the block, back to the basket and gets the ball, it is freakn money...........as long as Ron can identify the double and makes the right decision with the ball. And when he gets the ball on the perimeter and is isolated on a bigger, slower player it is freakn money......as long as he goes to the rack hard. Or he takes the 1-2 dribbles he needs along with a fake to get open for his jumper. But that is all. If he cannot get open with a head fake and 1-2 dribbles from the perimeter and he does not have a lane to the basket, he needs to give up the ball immediately and CUT. Not continue to dribble. If he would simply learn to discipline himself this way, he would become an even bigger monster offensively because when he cuts and gets the ball back...........look out.

Ron is limited by the tremendous variation of his own great skill set. He is limited by his brain telling him that if he can just get to a certain spot, then he will be deadly. What he has to reprogram is getting to that spot without the basketball.

It is so obvious going forward with this Rox team that the ball has to be in the hands of Brooks and Lowry. After watching the first 6 games of this series, I am convinced that Brooks/Lowry are the ignitors, even when McGrady comes back. Those guys are all over the place and they can always get open. They need to be used up. That is how the game is going to get easier for Yao/McGrady/Artest. When all those superstars figure out that Brooks/Lowry are the ignitor and they freely give the ball up to those guys and look for places to go score, they keep making their cuts, they keep posting up and setting screens for each other, we are going to become deadly, deadly, deadly. When you have a PG that can flat out can jumpers from all over the place, and can flat out get anywhere on the floor he wants to get, squeeze in and out of traffic all day long, and can run all day and all night long like Brooks and Lowry can, you gotta use them up. They can make the game so much simpler for the big 3 if the big 3 will let them.

Brooks and Lowry are growing UP this series. I can see it. Brooks' leadership skills are starting to come into play. And I am watching this team accept him more and more. If Artest would work within this framework and realize what his advantages are, if the Rox staff would sit down with him and run gametape and show him how to define his offensive game, Artest will become so much more difficult to deal with as will our whole offensive unit.

Adelman's system is based on trust. We are getting more and more players that can drive, finish, and shoot the ball. That means we have guys on the floor constantly that can score the basketball. When/if McGrady recovers.......or even if we trade McGrady.......we are going to have more guys on the floor that can shoot/score the ball. It comes down to trust. If Artest recognizes this, and stamps into his mind how to discipline his offensive game, we are going to be great. Artest simply needs to define and discipline his offensive game with the help of our coaching staff.

[durvasa]

LOL. The enigma of Artest.

It is interesting to me that Morey tracks offensive efficiency regarding Artest's dribbles.

If that's from my post in this thread, I was just speculating. Though its probably true, considering the Rockets track pretty much everything that can be tracked in a basketball game.

[durvasa]

Honestly there isnt anyone in the league who can really guard one on one a determined Kobe. Artest does a good job as anyone. Between him and Shane its the best job anyone can expect.

Kobe doesn't blow by Shane as easily as he has with Artest, though. Battier seems to move better, laterally. Artest relies on his hands more than his feet.

[Ridge94-95]

+1,000,000 on the thread message. Stop trying to "take over" Ron Ron. Just stay within the offense.

[jopatmc]

If that's from my post in this thread, I was just speculating. Though its probably true, considering the Rockets track pretty much everything that can be tracked in a basketball game.


It should be tracked. Because it is dead on accurate. You probably already tracked it, you stat geek. Have you posted the results somewhere and I missed it? Man, I wish I had your puter skills.

[thacabbage]

Honestly there isnt anyone in the league who can really guard one on one a determined Kobe. Artest does a good job as anyone. Between him and Shane its the best job anyone can expect.
In defending Kobe, Shane and Ron shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence.

Shane never gets beat by Kobe. All of his shots are either pull up jumpers right in his face or the few times he is able to drive, it's simply him using his greatness to invent something in the lane.

Ron gets beat with ease. He reaches at anything. Pavlov would blush. If you notice, Kobe simply has to crossover and he's created separation. Shane never bites on the crossover. Even Kobe knows this as you never even see him trying to do it with Shane guarding him.

[FranchiseBlade]

He should pass the ball in the flow of the offense, but he's terrible at passing the ball when the Lakers send a hard double team at him because of his over dribbling. It's almost always a TO when that happens.

I can see it coming from a mile away when he gets in trouble he will just throw the ball into the middle and a Laker is waiting in the wings to jump into that lane and steal the pass.

[Man]

Yeah, I'm bothered by Artest becoming a black hole on offense sometimes and having some terrible play, yet I like when things work out and he scores or he helps contribute to some points. LESS TURNOVERS and stupid plays :P

What bothered me yesterday though was how he didn't really contest 3 point shooters as close as he could...he would stick his hand out yet not enough to really make a difference and actually challenge the shot, and Lakers players made several threes with Artest closing out on them.

[FranchiseBlade]

Yeah, I'm bothered by Artest becoming a black hole on offense sometimes and having some terrible play, yet I like when things work out and he scores or he helps contribute to some points. LESS TURNOVERS and stupid plays :P

What bothered me yesterday though was how he didn't really contest 3 point shooters as close as he could...he would stick his hand out yet not enough to really make a difference and actually challenge the shot, and Lakers players made several threes with Artest closing out on them.There are times when a play breaks down, and I don't mind ARtest trying to create something in that case(as long as he doesn't make bad passes out of double teams). He can do that. As long as it doesn't lead to him getting tunnel vision, and thinking he has to carry the whole team every possession which sometimes happens.

The cool thing is that Artest can have a poor shooting or low scoring night, but as long as he keeps the flow of the offense going, the Rockets can still win.

[MayoRocket]

In defending Kobe, Shane and Ron shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence.

Shane never gets beat by Kobe. All of his shots are either pull up jumpers right in his face or the few times he is able to drive, it's simply him using his greatness to invent something in the lane.

Ron gets beat with ease. He reaches at anything. Pavlov would blush. If you notice, Kobe simply has to crossover and he's created separation. Shane never bites on the crossover. Even Kobe knows this as you never even see him trying to do it with Shane guarding him.

It's pretty obvious that Ron Artest can't guard Kobe for any significant length of time. Not only is he not quick enough laterally, but he gets too caught up in the "oh you scored on me so now I have to score on you," stuff.

But back to the original topic, when Ron moves the ball the Rockets are SO much better. It gets so frustrating at times watching him jack up bad shots are try to drive into the paint vs 2 or 3 defenders and turn it over.

[Rudyball]

In his defense when he goes into the lane he hardly ever gets any calls. Look at the picture above and I would bet he didn't get that call on Walton holding on for dear life. He is determined, to say the least, once he gets into the lane he is going to force that ball up. The Lakers seem to know it. He has been blocked too many times under the basket. I wish he could use that, and have Landry or Scola drive into the lane for a passoff. When you have 3 bigs defending him there has to be some room for a dunk!!

But, I totally agree with Will - passing, passing, passing. And Ron shoots a higher percentage when his feet are set anyway.

[thacabbage]

Ron has made Lamar Odom a complete non factor in this series (though the fall did help.) But offensively, he's far and away the most frustrating player I've ever seen in a Rockets uniform. This is a list that includes Vernon Maxwell, Steve Francis, and Cuttino Mobley. It's not even close. I don't know what put the idea in his head in the first place that he could create off the dribble. The funny thing is that everyone in the arena can see the trainwreck coming before it even develops. Even though it will be useless, Shane and Brent Barry need to sit him down before Game 7 and somehow communicate to him that that this team desperately needs him to stick to his strengths. Hit hard. Shoot spot up 3's. Get down in the block. Move the ball. Don't dribble to your right. Don't take shots going to your right. Don't shoot off one foot going to your right. Move the ball. Don't guard Kobe. For the love of God, even if it's for one play and Shane is on the bench with 5 fouls, don't guard Kobe.

That we actually have a chance now is going to make him all the more frustrating to watch.

[ray12302]

Ron is a great defender with a great ambotious determinination and efficient attacker. But we've witnessed too many times that he just went into 1 on 1 or 1 on x attack mode which lead to some key turnovers this season. Hopefully he could realize do more passing and high-low assists will help the team surpass LA. Anyway, he is a true warrior on the court. Go Ron, Go ROX!

[professorjay]

I think Morey said that Ron leads the team in 'true assists'. Ron draws a lot attention from the defense when he makes a move. The problem is when he decides to shoot in the face of all that attention instead of finding the open guy.

[Uprising]

I curse at my tv every time Ron is the one dribbling the ball up the court. That's the PG's duty!

And when he dribbles it up for the final 15 secs or so in a quarter. .... :o

[t_mac1]

this has been a problem all year. it looks so bad b/c he can't really create for himself off the dribble so when he holds onto the ball, YOU know bad things are going to happen most of the time.

we're so fortunate brooks and scola were great in the 2 wins without yao.

[pmac]

Shane's defense on Kobe is more about backing up and conceding a low percentage shot. Ron has always wanted to play smothering defense. Unfortunately, he has lost alot of athleticism since his DPOY days. If he would back up and play defense "Battier style" he could be just as effective. He's done it on a few plays and even a couple games in the regular season but it should be something he does consistently.

[choujie]

Team offense looks good when both Ron and AB pass the ball.

AB has done better in that department recently. Either drive in or pass it.

[apollo33]

Artest plz just dont dribble more than5 seconds. either you pass, post up, or shoot a open jumper.

[daoshi]

Artest needs to go down to the block more, back his defender down to attract the double team. He tends to come out to the premier, asks for the ball , then dribbles 10 seconds before launch an ill-advised shot. I think he is the #2 ball hog behind super Von.

On defense, he is a good post defender, but just an average on-ball defender at perimeter, his lateral movement is just not quick enough to stay with good players, and the refs won't let him hand-check, or use his body to bump the ball-handler.

[Easy]

Ron is at his worst when the Rockets start getting behind. That's usually when he panics, and thats when he really starts trying to take over. From there, it just snowballs for the Rockets, because a panicking Ron means even more over-dribbling and horrible shot selection.
Very true. When we are behind, or when our offense is not clicking, Ron starts his one on five act.

This is probably why we got so many blowouts. When we are ahead, Ron would keep his head straight and help the team better. When we were behind, Ron would make things worse and all hell broke loose.

That's why the first quarter is sooooo important to set the tone for the team and especially for Artest.

That said, I think Ron is due for a huge shooting game Sunday. He has been shooting poorly for 3 straight games now, am I right?

[darkwarrior]

sometimes i think he gets frustrated about not getting the ball on the block and/or it's taking too long so he steps out onto the perimeter to receive the ball. Then he'll try to dribble it back to where he was holding his post position.

I only watched the game from the start third quarter last night, but I remember one play where he was trying to take kobe down to the blocks and it just didn't work and he was visibly frustrated at the play. We just don't have very good post entry passers. Rick, when he has the team running a post play for Ron needs to have shane throw it in, or else it's not going in and/or Ron will end up having the ball out on the perimter on the wing.

[guangzu]

He made some timely shots last night.
we wouldn't need them if he did not jacked up that many bad shots before