Billy Wagner leaves game with apparent elbow injury!

[countingcrow]

Wagner came on in the 9th inning in a tied 8-8 game today, and left after retiring one batter and giving up a double to the next batter. After the pitch that allowed the double, Wagner grabbed his elbow, began shaking his head, and exclaimed, "Oh, man!" I read his lips in the replay that Fox Sports showed. The Astros trainer came out to the mound and escorted Wagner to the clubhouse. The expression on Wagner's face as he was leaving did not look good. This could be a huge blow to an already undependable Astros bullpen. They took an 8-3 lead in the 4th today and here we are now in the 9th with a tie game.

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[BobFinn*]

If Wagner is out for any length of time, I would put Oswalt in the closer's role. We need someone who can finish games (if we can find starters to get us that far http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/wink.gif)

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One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.

[countingcrow]

No, I don't want Oswalt closing games! I just got him off the waiver wire in my fantasy league and he gave me an impressive score yesterday. Let Dotel take the reins if Wagner is out.

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[BobFinn*]

Dotel fumbled that ball last year. Oswalt is the man for the job.

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One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.

[Summer Song Giver]

Topic: Billy Wagner leaves game with apparent elbow injury!

SFW Thank God for the Rockets and the Texans are on the way. Now we can can let those bums rot in their new downtown little league field we built for them. Suck a$$-tros

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I'm worse at what I do best
And for this gift I feel blessed

[RKMAN]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Summer Song Giver:
Topic: Billy Wagner leaves game with apparent elbow injury!

SFW Thank God for the Rockets and the Texans are on the way. Now we can can let those bums rot in their new downtown little league field we built for them. Suck a$$-tros

</font>

Hey, don't bitch about the 'Stros.


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RKMAN

Proud believer of the 2001 World Champion Houston Astros.

[Smokey]

Bogar with the game winning HR (for the Dodgers). If we had to lose, I'm glad it was Bogey and not someone else. What a game for Castilla - 2 run HR and a Grand Slam http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/eek.gif

I hope Billy is alright.

BTW, That pitcher for the Dodgers (Fetters?) is one scary dude. He looks at his glove/3rd base then quickly turns his head for the sign. He looks like he's about to kick someone's ***. Then he looks down again then delivers the pitch. You guys have to see it..it cannot be fully described. I was hoping one of the announcers would say something, but oh well.

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[Smokey]

Oswalt should continue to start until he proves (ex. Lima) that he can't go 6-8 innings a game.

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[DREAMer]

Maybe Lima as a closer......


He needs something to use as an emotional source. Closing is a very stressful job. He might take it as a challenge and respond well.

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[MadMax]

What?? Dotel was great in the reliever role last year!!! He was a huge reason the team had a very good 2nd half, despite the fact Wagner was out for the season. He handled the closer role quite well.

Oswalt IS clearly a starter.

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[BobFinn*]

Dotel's stats last year:

IP-125
H-127
BB-61 (not good)
K-127 (not bad)
Saves-16
Blown Saves-6
Wild Pitches-6
ERA-5.40 (Holy Toledo!)
Wins-3
Loses-7

Yeah, I could see how you would say he had a good second half http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/rolleyes.gif

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One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.

[haven]

BobFinn:

Yeah, but the starters role is more important than the closer's role. Until the Astros can get people to make it a close 7 innings, the closer is pretty irrelevant. Since there isn't a passable alternative to Oswalt for long innings, Dotel is the closer by default.

Besides, you need to milk your pitchers for their best advantages. Oswalt has stamina, Dotel doesn't... that means it's best with Dotel in the closers role and Oswalt starting.

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A few years back on the Senate floor...
Phil Gramm: "If Democrats could, they'd tax the air we breathe."
Ted Kennedy (jumping up): "By God, why didn't I think of that sooner!"

Boston College - NCAA Hockey National Champions 2001

[Live]

OOOPS, wrong thread!!

I hope Billy's alright!

[This message has been edited by Live (edited June 04, 2001).]

[Joe Joe]

BobFinn*

Those are his season stats. After the AllStar break he had an ERA of 4.75 with being overworked, in an unfamiliar role, and a horrible September. He has a 4.24 ERA as a reliever, that's damn good at Enron. He got 45K in 30 inn after the break. Very Wagneress. He did struggle in Sept, but he was in almost every other game.

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[MadMax]

Bob -- those are SEASON stats...he started the season off as a starter...if you'll remember, he was the Opening Day starter against the Phillies at Enron regular season debut. I remember many times where he came in games to close it down and struck out the side. I'm not saying he's Wagner, but he did as good a job as could be expected of him out of that role DURING THE SECOND HALF!!!

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[bobrek]

Oswalt has never been a closer and he should not be expected to step into what is a high pressure role. The obvious choice at this point is Mike Jackson. He has done it before and has pitched outstanding on the road this year (0 earned runs). Dotel is the backup plan.

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[fadeaway]

Urbina to Houston for Alou? http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/wink.gif

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All hail Fadeaway's Cyberfish -- your 2000-2001 BobFinn* Fantasy Basketball League Champions!

[BobFinn*]

So Oswalt starts, goes 7 comes out with a lead, only to watch our futile bullpen blow the game?

I would rather have Oswalt come in to protect a lead. The entire bullpen was the Astros downfall last season. With no closer, it will be last season all over again.

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One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.

[DREAMer]

So, I guess my idea of how to squeeze some productivity out of Lima wasn't worth mentioning.....

*sigh

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[Puedlfor]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BobFinn*:
So Oswalt starts, goes 7 comes out with a lead, only to watch our futile bullpen blow the game?

I would rather have Oswalt come in to protect a lead. The entire bullpen was the Astros downfall last season. With no closer, it will be last season all over again.

</font>

I would rather have a lead to protect. Oswalt has been a starter all his life, thats the role he's accustomed to and thats what he's best at. Oswalt and Miller give us something we didn't have last year very often - competent starting pitching. I'd rather have good starting pitching than a good bullpen.

Now putting Mike Jackson in at closer isn't a bad idea, he's done it before and he hasn't pitched bad this year.

Dreamer : I don't think Lima has the stuff to be a closer.

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[BobFinn*]

Did anyone watch the Redsox-Yankee game tonight? Pedro pitched 7 good innings, left with a 4-3 lead only to see the bullpen blow the game.

You can have the best starters in the game, but very few pitchers throw complete games anymore. If you don't have a good bullpen you are a mediocre to bad baseball team.

DREAMer-The only closer Lima is getting is closer to leaving H-Town http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/biggrin.gif


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One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.

[This message has been edited by BobFinn* (edited June 04, 2001).]

[ChenZhen]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by bobrek:
Oswalt has never been a closer and he should not be expected to step into what is a high pressure role. The obvious choice at this point is Mike Jackson. He has done it before and has pitched outstanding on the road this year (0 earned runs). Dotel is the backup plan.
</font>

I agree with bobrek (he's always right on http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/wink.gif)

Mike Jackson should step in as the closer because of experience if wagner goes down...Oswalt is way too unproven to close out games, even though he has great stuff...

[This message has been edited by ChenZhen (edited June 04, 2001).]

[Groogrux]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BobFinn*:
Did anyone watch the Redsox-Yankee game tonight? Pedro pitched 7 good innings, left with a 4-3 lead only to see the bullpen blow the game.

You can have the best starters in the game, but very few pitchers throw complete games anymore. If you don't have a good bullpen you are a mediocre to bad baseball team.

DREAMer-The only closer Lima is getting is closer to leaving H-Town http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

</font>

So why don't they put Martinez in the bullpen?

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[BobFinn*]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rocketman95:
So why don't they put Martinez in the bullpen?

</font>

Because they would have no lead to save if Pedro didn't start.



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One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.

[haven]

Dreamer:

Generally, you want a pitcher who does one thing *very* well to be your closer. He's only going to have to face each batter once, so they're not going to get used to his "sweet pitch." That's why you get so many guys with 100 mile fastballs and nothing but a changeup as closers. Add a slider, and my, they're unbeatable http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/wink.gif.

Lima, in his prime, won by having a few good pitchers, but I wouldn't call any of them deadly.

Does Oswalt have that one lethal pitch?

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A few years back on the Senate floor...
Phil Gramm: "If Democrats could, they'd tax the air we breathe."
Ted Kennedy (jumping up): "By God, why didn't I think of that sooner!"

Boston College - NCAA Hockey National Champions 2001

[Puedlfor]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by haven:
Lima, in his prime, won by having a few good pitchers, but I wouldn't call any of them deadly.

Does Oswalt have that one lethal pitch?

</font>

Well, Lima did have a particularly wicked change-up. But his fastball has fallen off so much that his change-up has nothing to change from.

Oswalt has a pretty good fastball, but he doesn't have a pitch that makes hitters beat their chests and cry out in lamentation.

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[DREAMer]

How did Rod Beck save so many games then?

I think the closer role is one that is very stressful and must be filled by a guy who can live up to that challenge of saving a game. Lima is a very emotional guy, and I think he might just respond well if the organization puts that sort of trust in him.

Look, he's not coming back into the rotation (barring an injury... or two), and he's not the type of guy to pitch middle relief, so what do the L'Astros do with him?

I say, if Wagner is hurt, put the ball in Lima's hands and let him make it or break it. If he sucks how much worse off will the Stros be?

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