Here's a laugh; Astros expect to win 90 games

[REEKO_HTOWN]

this is halarious. Everybody keep an eye on this entertaining bunch.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6333325.html

KISSIMMEE, Fla. – Cecil Cooper realizes the so-called experts don’t expect much from his club this season. Furthermore, the Astros’ manager knows going 22 days and 19 Grapefruit League games between victories this spring didn’t exactly raise the veteran team’s stock in the baseball world.

Yet, he's predicting brilliance from the 2009 Astros.

“We should win 90 games,” Cooper said nonchalantly Monday morning at Osceola County Stadium.

To an extent, Cooper appreciates the low expectations because he hopes to “go under the radar” and surprise some teams. He expressed those sentiments recently to Cincinnati Reds manager Dusty Baker, who also hopes to play above expectations.

Cooper didn’t tell Baker, however, that he’s predicting at least 90 victories for the 2009 Astros a year after he was only four victories shy of being correct with a similar prediction. Last year’s 90-win prediction, he says, might have been fulfilled if not for the awful stretch that started immediately after they played two games in Milwaukee against the Chicago Cubs after Hurricane Ike.

“They’re not thinking that we’re going to win anything or be anywhere,” he says of the so-called experts. “We’re going to be in the lower rung of our division (according to predictions). I don’t believe that and (Dusty Baker) doesn’t believe that.”

Never mind that the Astros have been one of the worst teams in all of baseball this spring, going 1-16-3 in the Grapefruit League before winning three in a row.

Although Cooper has admitted he lost sleep recently after one of the losses during the 19-game winless streak, the man who spent nearly two weeks discussing his frustrations with the offense and sloppy defense actually used previous poor spring training records to back his prediction.

Because the Astros are a veteran team with Michael Bourn as the only position player who hasn’t established himself in the majors, Cooper isn’t too concerned with the stats his starters have had this spring.

“If you got a bunch of young kids and you got a young team and that’s happening, then you got to be a little worried,” he said. “I mean really, really worried. Veterans, their focus mainly is on getting ready. That’s it and pacing themselves to a certain time.”

To back his claim, he cited the 20001 American League champion New York Yankees, the 1999 and 2000 World Series champion Yankees and the 1984 World Series champion Detroit Tigers.

In 1984, the Tigers were 11-17 in spring training. The Yankees were 14-19 in the spring of 1999, then 13-20 the next spring and 9-20 in the spring of 2001.

Since the Tigers used their poor Grapefruit League as a springboard to the 1984 World Series title, only three of the World Series champions have had the best spring records in baseball. Heck, 10 champions and 20 of the participants in the World Series have gone under .500 in the last 24 years.

“I’d say we’re going to be very competitive,” Cooper said, “and we’re going to have a chance to win. … I believe we’ll win 90 games, 90-plus.”

Lance Berkman and Carlos Lee, two players who have been adamant that there shouldn’t be concern with the spring losses, agree with Cooper’s prediction. Lee said as much last Friday when he confronted a worried Drayton McLane.

“Listen,” he told McLane, “do you want me to drive in a run in the bottom of the eighth in April or do you want me to drive that run in right now in March? April, right?”

McLane shook his head in agreement, and the Astros broke their winless streak a day later.

“I believe that we can win at least 90 games,” Berkman said. “At least 90. It could be 91.

I don’t care what they’re (predicting) to be honest with you. We know what kind of team we have. We got a good group of veteran guys. The reality is we’re not real deep in our starting rotation, which is a concern. But any time you have a good season you’re going to catch some breaks. And if we stay healthy and catch some, we’ll be fine.”

Yeah, but why should fans believe the Astros can win 90 games a year after winning 86?

“This is the Houston Astros,” Berkman said. “It just means that we play better than what we look like on paper.”

Added Lee: “If we stay healthy, yeah, we can win 90.”

Maybe more, Tejada says.

“We have the talent,” Tejada said. “If we keep everybody together, we’ll win 90 games. Last year we lost Carlos. It’s a big loss. That’s why we’re going to win more games.”

Ty Wigginton and Brad Ausmus are the only position players who are gone from last year’s team. Geoff Blum and either prospect Chris Johnson or a late spring pickup will share time replacing Wigginton at third. Pudge Rodriguez will replace Ausmus.

“Why wouldn’t we (win 90)?” Berkman said. “We won 86 games last year. I feel like we have a better team this year than we did last year.”

The rotation isn’t very deep behind ace Roy Oswalt. At this point, the rotation is likely to include Wandy Rodriguez, Mike Hampton, Brian Moehler and Russ Ortiz with Brandon Backe starting the season on the disabled list and Jose Capellan either in the bullpen or starting at Class AAA Round Rock.

“I’m saying we have a terrific bullpen,” Cooper said. “If not the best, awful darn close to the top. One of the best closers in the game, OK? We got one of the best aces. We got the ace, I think, in all of baseball or definitely in the National League.

The bullpen is expected to be a strength with closer Jose Valverde, who led the league in saves last year, and LaTroy Hawkins, Doug Brocail, Geoff Geary, Chris Sampson, Wesley Wright and Tim Byrdak all back.

“We’ve got three of the best offensive players (Lee, Berkman and Tejada) at their position in baseball,” Cooper said. “We got if not the best pretty close to the top, from a catching standpoint in baseball. We’ve got a second baseman (Kaz Matsui) who if he’s not the fourth or fifth best … a terrific defensive player. Come on.

“We got one of the best young stars (Hunter Pence) in the game. We’ve got what it takes. I love our middle guys — Geary, Sampson. I love those guys. We got three veteran guys at the end of the ballgame — Brocail, Hawkins, Valverde. If we’re winning a game in the fifth inning, the sixth inning, we’ve got probably and 85-90 percent chance of winning that game. You tell me we’re not going to win that many games?”

[bobrek]

While it would (pleasantly) suprise me if they won 90+ games, based on last year, it is not unreasonable to predict that they could win 90 games. It is entirely possible that, based on how they were playing at the time, had the Hurricane Ike fiasco not occurred, they may very well have won 90+ games last season. Who would have thought that?

Comparing the rosters at the start of the seasons, this year's rotation is on par with last year and the bullpen is better. Offensively they should be better.
The addition of Wolf and his unexpected production will be missed, but it could be offset by Oswalt having a good first half as opposed to last year.
The bench should be comparable if not better and Cooper probably won't be as patient with Bourn this year.

[Cannonball]

While a few faces may have changed, our talent level is on par with what we had last year when we won 86 and finished 3.5 out of the wild card. We were rolling until Ike hit and we had to go play Chicago in Milwaukee. We might have reached 90 last year if that hadn't happened. I'm not saying we should expect to win 90, but I don't think it's that ridiculous of an idea.

EDIT: bobrek pretty much hit my major points.

[right1]

Either way, it's nice that Berkman, Lee and Tejada are happy with the talent level of the team and have high expectations. They even pinpoint the problem of depth in the starting rotation (doesn't take a rocket scientist) and are still optimistic. That's good. I'll be there opening day.

[Groogrux]

While it would (pleasantly) suprise me if they won 90+ games, based on last year, it is not unreasonable to predict that they could win 90 games. It is entirely possible that, based on how they were playing at the time, had the Hurricane Ike fiasco not occurred, they may very well have won 90+ games last season. Who would have thought that?

Comparing the rosters at the start of the seasons, this year's rotation is on par with last year and the bullpen is better. Offensively they should be better.
The addition of Wolf and his unexpected production will be missed, but it could be offset by Oswalt having a good first half as opposed to last year.
The bench should be comparable if not better and Cooper probably won't be as patient with Bourn this year.

major would know better than me, but at least according to stats, we played about 10 games over our heads last season.

[Cannonball]

major would know better than me, but at least according to stats, we played about 10 games over our heads last season.

True. Our Pythagorean W-L (estimated wins and losses based on the number of runs scored and allowed) was 77-84. It seems to indicate that when we lost, we lost bad. When we won, we won by a little. We were the only team above .500 that gave up more runs than we scored.

[bobrek]

major would know better than me, but at least according to stats, we played about 10 games over our heads last season.

I have seen the stats you refer to and that always makes me wonder why Cooper got zero consideration for manager of the year. Shouldn't the very definition of that award be getting more wins out of your team than they should have gotten?

Anyway, the record was what the record was. With the current roster, I expect 84-88 wins.

[justtxyank]

Pythagorean records are just what they sound like, mathematical estimations. They simply compile statistics to come up with a win total. In some cases it's obvious that a manager just got more out of his team than the numbers would indicate they had, but in other cases the numbers are just skewed by factors that the formula can't account for.

Anyway, I hope the Astros win 90 games, but I look at the pitching staff and ask myself, who after Oswalt is going to win 12+ games? I can't answer that with anyone's name unfortunately. Wandy has the potential to certainly if he's healthy, but that's it.

[bobrek]

...Anyway, I hope the Astros win 90 games, but I look at the pitching staff and ask myself, who after Oswalt is going to win 12+ games? I can't answer that with anyone's name unfortunately. Wandy has the potential to certainly if he's healthy, but that's it.

Who, besides Oswalt, won 12+ last year?

[Raven Lunatic]

I think, if healthy, Hampton has that ability as well. Unfortunately that's a much bigger "if" than Wandy's health situation.

[Cannonball]

Wouldn't you be more upset if the manager and players of your team came out and said "We expect to be 10 games below .500 and finish 5th in the division"? That's a bad mindset to be in. You want the players to believe they can win and make the playoffs. It's had to do that if you're already conceding defeat before the season starts.

[kaleidosky]

well if this is true, my bet might come through before the september callups ;)

[cardpire]

any team in the majors can say they are gonna win 90 games in baseball - and be right. surprises happen every year. we have a team where it isn't completely unfathomable for a ton on things to fall into place for us (hampton, ortiz pitching well in particular, pence improving, tejada having a much better season than last, etc.) and for us to be good. i'd be surprised...pleasantly surprised, but not shocked. who knows what the hell will happen.

as the saying goes though, talk is cheap.

[TheRealist137]

any team in the majors can say they are gonna win 90 games in baseball - and be right. surprises happen every year. we have a team where it isn't completely unfathomable for a ton on things to fall into place for us (hampton, ortiz pitching well in particular, pence improving, tejada having a much better season than last, etc.) and for us to be good. i'd be surprised...pleasantly surprised, but not shocked. who knows what the hell will happen.

as the saying goes though, talk is cheap.
Exactly, all of you fans and the millions upon millions of Yankees/Red Sox fans would have been laughing it up and totally destroying the Rays last year had they come out and said that they were going to win the division. Guess what happened? Those fans got pwned.

[blathersby]

I'm sorry. This is bugging me more than the actual story. This is the second time I've seen it in as many days.

It's spelled H-I-L-A-R-I-O-U-S.

[Buck Turgidson]

It seems to indicate that when we lost, we lost bad.
They played in 14 games decided by 7 runs or more. They went 3-11 in those games & were outscored by 86 runs.

[jev5555]

We will win more than 90 and Jake Peavy will have an Astros jersey by June.

[BrooksBall]

We will win more than 90 and Jake Peavy will have an Astros jersey by June.

That's bold.

What will we give up to get Peavy?

[ths balla]

That's bold.

What will we give up to get Peavy?

hunter pence

[BrooksBall]

hunter pence

And??

[Pete Chilcutt]

And??

lol seriously...

I would wet my pants if we were to get Peavy...I hope we do..but i just dont see it happening, but then again who ever thought Artest wouldn't opt-out and land in houston?!

Chilcutt

[imatexan]

Funny you think that is out of reach, we won 86 last year.

[Fulgore]

I dont think it will happen but I cant knock Coop for believing in his club.I hope he is right because there hasnt been a buzz about the Astros in 4yrs now.

[redgoose]

I predict Cecil Cooper will be looking for a new job by the end of the season. The Astros have gone through to many managers over the years. I don't think our owner understands only pitchers and hitters get to play in the games. As well as whomever our head coach is at the time isn't running the farm system or scouting and then drafting actual talent.

There's no alternating NBA 5 man rotations and constant mismatches like basketball. There's no X's and O's, deciding to run the ball, or trick plays like football.

In reality, a NL head coach "mostly" makes bullpen pitching changes and then answers questions after the game. If you think it's all about morale and a master motivator will win you games just finally hire Tony Robbins as our head coach.

[SamCassell]

There's no alternating NBA 5 man rotations and constant mismatches like basketball. There's no X's and O's, deciding to run the ball, or trick plays like football.

In reality, a NL head coach "mostly" makes bullpen pitching changes and then answers questions after the game.
I don't care if they keep Cooper on as manager or not, but you're mistaken to say that there's no strategy or decision making in baseball. You have bunts, hit-and-runs, double switches, defensive replacements, the aforementioned bullpen changes, pinch hitters, steal signs or green lights, pinch runners, intentional walks and "pitch around" walks, daily lineups and pitching rotations, bullpen assignments, managing days off, handling pitch counts, platoons, and defensive positioning for each hitter, off the top of my head.

[kaleidosky]

There's no alternating NBA 5 man rotations and constant mismatches like basketball. There's no X's and O's, deciding to run the ball, or trick plays like football.

In reality, a NL head coach "mostly" makes bullpen pitching changes and then answers questions after the game. If you think it's all about morale and a master motivator will win you games just finally hire Tony Robbins as our head coach.

wow, that's pretty ignorant.. see samcassell's post.

defensive positioning for each hitter is big..steps here and there matter. And how about positioning based on the way you plan on pitching to a certain batter? And how about pitching to a certain batter differently in different situations?

Players help with some of those decisions, but managers help with or make them completely often enough.

[No Worries]

I predict Cecil Cooper will be looking for a new job by the end of the season.
Yeah if the Astros win 10 games over Pythogorean projection again and Cecil Cooper quits.

[MadMax]

I predict Cecil Cooper will be looking for a new job by the end of the season. The Astros have gone through to many managers over the years. I don't think our owner understands only pitchers and hitters get to play in the games. As well as whomever our head coach is at the time isn't running the farm system or scouting and then drafting actual talent.

There's no alternating NBA 5 man rotations and constant mismatches like basketball. There's no X's and O's, deciding to run the ball, or trick plays like football.

In reality, a NL head coach "mostly" makes bullpen pitching changes and then answers questions after the game. If you think it's all about morale and a master motivator will win you games just finally hire Tony Robbins as our head coach.

i vomited.

[Groogrux]

i vomited.

concur.

[redgoose]

LOL....I expected to get blasted. So many people over complicate the head coach's role in baseball. They spend way more time answering questions after the game than making game altering decisions.

So which is more important? Getting a Joe Torre as the head coach? Or would you rather have a great pitching instructor and a hitting coach who help the players out on a one on one basis that translates directly to their game play?

Is it a difficult decision to put your set up man in the 8th and closer in the 9th inning? Bunt with a RISP unless your power hitters are up depending on score if your playing for one run? Start your 5 best pitchers in order of talent? Pinch hit for the pitcher in the late innings if your gonna yank him. Can some coaches really not figure out the best routine very early in a 162 game season? It's not exactly Rocket Science is what i'm implying. :eek:

I'm basically trying to get at the point head coaches are the scape goats for the GM's and owners. If we kept the exact same team from last year and signed the best coach in baseball this year while health and all other factors stayed entirely the same, how many more games do you think we would win this year? :confused:

Yes, basketball and football coaches make alot more crucial decisions every game, whereas many times your baseball head coach won't even have to make one call during an entire game. No other sport like that.

So please resume to throwing up again if you can't wrap your head around these mind blowing concepts! :)

[Groogrux]

Yes, basketball and football coaches make alot more crucial decisions every game, whereas many times your baseball head coach won't even have to make one call during an entire game. No other sport like that.

this is a joke, right?

[redgoose]

this is a joke, right?

If you've ever seen a few Astros games, yes it is a joke. :)

[RocketBlood]

If you've ever seen a few Astros games, yes it is a joke. :)

Wow! And Astros HATER! Your probably a Yankees fan... And yes I think we can win 90 games we alsmost did last yr.

[MadMax]

So please resume to throwing up again if you can't wrap your head around these mind blowing concepts! :)

How long did you play baseball?

And don't worry, I'm a step ahead of you with the vomiting.

[msn]

Is it a difficult decision to put your set up man in the 8th and closer in the 9th inning?
"Yes." --Larry Dierker, October, 2001 :(

So please resume to throwing up again if you can't wrap your head around these mind blowing concepts! :)
Come on now; disagreement with your take does not constitute a failure to understand it. :p

[SamCassell]

head coach's role
Joe Torre as the head coach
Can some coaches
head coaches are
signed the best coach
your baseball head coach
You would sound slightly less dumb if you used the right terminology, which has always been "manager", instead of calling them by the wrong name constantly. Do you know that little about baseball?

[right1]

O.k....now I puked.

[theimpossibles1]

BLEEAHHHHHHH, SHPSHHHHHHH, VOMIT!!!!!!!!!!!! IM VOMITING EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bruins&RedSox21]

Due to my rabid followment (is that a word, followment?) of another team located Northeast, I dont know too much about the Astros. I do know, however, that their farm system seems somewhat not up to par. I glanced at the roster, & wondered if it would be in their best interest to trade a few starts / serviceable big leaguers for prospects? Please don't bash, I dont follow this team.

[right1]

Due to my rabid followment (is that a word, followment?) of another team located Northeast, I dont know too much about the Astros. I do know, however, that their farm system seems somewhat not up to par. I glanced at the roster, & wondered if it would be in their best interest to trade a few starts / serviceable big leaguers for prospects? Please don't bash, I dont follow this team.

I don't know. Would you trade Pedroia, Youkilis, Beckett or Papelbon for prospects? Your answer would probably be, ":confused: Why? The season is about about to start." Glancing at the roster, I think they've got the team they want out there on opening day. Let the chips fall where they may. Good luck Astros!!! Here's to kicking some Bo Sox a$$ in the World Series.

[Cannonball]

If the Astros are buried in the standing come trade deadline time, they should be open to trading anyone not named Oswalt or Berkman.

[Bruins&RedSox21]

I don't know. Would you trade Pedroia, Youkilis, Beckett or Papelbon for prospects? Your answer would probably be, ":confused: Why? The season is about about to start." Glancing at the roster, I think they've got the team they want out there on opening day. Let the chips fall where they may. Good luck Astros!!! Here's to kicking some Bo Sox a$$ in the World Series.
Different story. Buchholz, Bowden, Bard, Anderson are all primed for the future. Pedroia is the future. I'd say Youka too, but he's kinda old for the amount of years he played. I don't know of anyone in the Astros organisation. I'm not trying to be rude either, hence me asking the question. I was just saying that Berkman, or Oswalt could x > likely get you guys some killer pieces in return. *shrugs shoulders, lifts hands in the air.*

[rhino17]

I think astros fans hate their team more than any fans in the league

Due to my rabid followment (is that a word, followment?) of another team located Northeast, I dont know too much about the Astros. I do know, however, that their farm system seems somewhat not up to par. I glanced at the roster, & wondered if it would be in their best interest to trade a few starts / serviceable big leaguers for prospects? Please don't bash, I dont follow this team.
this has nothing to do with your post, I just thought I would say I hate the Red Sox more than any baseball franchise in the MLB

[Kate81]

If the Astros are buried in the standing come trade deadline time, they should be open to trading anyone not named Oswalt or Berkman.

Doesn't someone say this exact statement every season? More like they should be more open to trading any player we have, and strait up rebuild with prospects and younger talent.

[Bruins&RedSox21]

I think astros fans hate their team more than any fans in the league


this has nothing to do with your post, I just thought I would say I hate the Red Sox more than any baseball franchise in the MLB

Cool man. Can't expect everyone to like the Sox. And this is the biased fan of me saying this, but I just dont seem how everyone can't hate the Yankees the most. Would you mind me asking why? You certainly don't have to answer, and with that being said, I (sincerely) wish you guys luck this season.

[msn]

And this is the biased fan of me saying this, but I just dont seem how everyone can't hate the Yankees the most.
You answered your own question: your own bias! I can't speak for the other guy, but the Yankees and Sox to me are just mildly annoying. I *hate* the Braves and Mets, no junior circuit club will ever approach that level of loathsomeness.

[Bruins&RedSox21]

You answered your own question: your own bias! I can't speak for the other guy, but the Yankees and Sox to me are just mildly annoying. I *hate* the Braves and Mets, no junior circuit club will ever approach that level of loathsomeness.
Sounds reasonable enough to me. The only team I actually HATED in the senior circuit was the Montreal Expos, but that goes back to another sport. :) Everyone else in the NL is fine with me.

[Cannonball]

Cool man. Can't expect everyone to like the Sox. And this is the biased fan of me saying this, but I just dont seem how everyone can't hate the Yankees the most. Would you mind me asking why? You certainly don't have to answer, and with that being said, I (sincerely) wish you guys luck this season.

The Red Sox used to be fun to root for when the Yankees were dominating just 'cause people hated the Yankees and there was no better way to stick it to them than to have their hated rival unseat them. But now that they've won a few titles, Red Sox fans (generally speaking) have become almost or just as annoying and arrogant as Yankee fans. So now they get lumped into the same category as the Yankees meaning people hate them both about equally.

[Bruins&RedSox21]

The Red Sox used to be fun to root for when the Yankees were dominating just 'cause people hated the Yankees and there was no better way to stick it to them than to have their hated rival unseat them. But now that they've won a few titles, Red Sox fans (generally speaking) have become almost or just as annoying and arrogant as Yankee fans. So now they get lumped into the same category as the Yankees meaning people hate them both about equally.
You are right. While I don't think Sox fans should be associated with the MFY, they are mostly, rather I like it or not, frankly. In addition, I know many Sox fans who are confrontational, so you are indeed correct in that fact. However, every Sox fan does have a problem with someone, and that someone's name is Joba Chamberlain. :) BTW, I didn't mean to hijack this thread. I was just wondering the prospects the Astros could've gotten in return. My apologies.

[rhino17]

Cool man. Can't expect everyone to like the Sox. And this is the biased fan of me saying this, but I just dont seem how everyone can't hate the Yankees the most. Would you mind me asking why? You certainly don't have to answer, and with that being said, I (sincerely) wish you guys luck this season.
Because I see the Yankees and Red Sox Sox essentially being the same, except the Yankees know they are arrogant and no one likes them. Sox fans still think their team is cinderella team and think they are better than yankees fans when they are in fact the same, if not more annoying. I don't really know you well enough to know if you are one of these guys but that is my general perception of their team and fans

[The Cat]

Because I see the Yankees and Red Sox Sox essentially being the same, except the Yankees know they are arrogant and no one likes them. Sox fans still think their team is cinderella team and think they are better than yankees fans when they are in fact the same, if not more annoying. I don't really know you well enough to know if you are one of these guys but that is my general perception of their team and fans

I'm an Astros fan so the argument doesn't apply to me, but I've always been stunned at this perception that the Yankees and Red Sox are "the same." I get that they might be the same in terms of media hype, but in terms of payroll (the largest complaint), the Yankees finished last season at $222m... the Red Sox at $147m.

The Red Sox might have the second-largest payroll, but a $75m difference is huge! Hell, the Astros' entire team was at $100m, and the Astros are a fairly big-market club. To me, as an outsider, the two are nowhere close to the same. You didn't see Boston signing virtually every top free agent on the market for around $400m combined in one offseason.

[justtxyank]

You are right. While I don't think Sox fans should be associated with the MFY,

Keep that crap at SOSH.

and that someone's name is Joba Chamberlain.

I can't wait to see Youkilis hit the deck this year when a curveball that misses him by 10 feet drops into the catchers glove.

[Bruins&RedSox21]

Keep that crap at SOSH.

Don't worry, I post there much more than I would here...only about the Sox tho.

I can't wait to see Youkilis hit the deck this year when a curveball that misses him by 10 feet drops into the catchers glove.

Bring it. I'd like to know what Chamberlain's problem is in the 1st place.

[Bruins&RedSox21]

Keep that crap at SOSH.



I can't wait to see Youkilis hit the deck this year when a curveball that misses him by 10 feet drops into the catchers glove.

EDIT: Don't worry, I post there much more than I would here about the Sox. & Bring it. I'd like to know what Chamberlain's problem is in the 1st place.

[justtxyank]

I was teasing about the SOSH stuff.

I don't know what you mean about his problem so I can't answer you.

[juicystream]

EDIT: Don't worry, I post there much more than I would here about the Sox. & Bring it. I'd like to know what Chamberlain's problem is in the 1st place.

So, you are a Bruins & Red Sox fan, but a Rockets fan over the Celtics?

[msn]

lol @ NE baseball fans going at it here on Clutchfans. awesome.

I was never one to hate the "haves" just because I perceive myself as a "have not". Also, I blame ESPN, not the Yanks or Sox, for humping their legs like an undisciplined dog.

sorry for the redundancy, but I hate the Br*ves. And Mets. and, more and more, the Cubs. OH and the j*zz. Really, really, hate the (*&@#$ j*zz.

[MadMax]

lol @ NE baseball fans going at it here on Clutchfans. awesome.

I was never one to hate the "haves" just because I perceive myself as a "have not". Also, I blame ESPN, not the Yanks or Sox, for humping their legs like an undisciplined dog.

sorry for the redundancy, but I hate the Br*ves. And Mets. and, more and more, the Cubs. OH and the j*zz. Really, really, hate the (*&@#$ j*zz.
The Cubs are baseball's Jazz. Obnoxious fans...no championships...dirty crap underneath lillywhite aura...

[right1]

Different story. Buchholz, Bowden, Bard, Anderson are all primed for the future. Pedroia is the future. I'd say Youka too, but he's kinda old for the amount of years he played. I don't know of anyone in the Astros organisation. I'm not trying to be rude either, hence me asking the question. I was just saying that Berkman, or Oswalt could x > likely get you guys some killer pieces in return. *shrugs shoulders, lifts hands in the air.*

Oswalt, Berkman are not "serviceable major leaguers" dick wad. They're All-Stars. And so are Carlos Lee, Pudge Rodriguez, Miguel Tejada, Russ Ortiz, Mike Hampton, Darin Erstad and Jose Valverde. Throw in Hunter Pence, Michael Bourn, Kaz Matsui and Doug Brocail and the Astros have a decent shot at kicking some Bo Sox butt come October. You just worry about beating the Yankees. :eek:

[kaleidosky]

Oswalt, Berkman are not "serviceable major leaguers" dick wad. They're All-Stars. And so are Carlos Lee, Pudge Rodriguez, Miguel Tejada, Russ Ortiz, Mike Hampton, Darin Erstad and Jose Valverde. Throw in Hunter Pence, Michael Bourn, Kaz Matsui and Doug Brocail and the Astros have a decent shot at kicking some Bo Sox butt come October. You just worry about beating the Yankees. :eek:

he openly admitted to not knowing much about the Astros and just asking a question. Why the hell are you attacking him and calling him names? Uncalled for

Pudge is not an All Star. Neither are Tejada, Ortiz, Hampton, or Erstad. You're the one that needs to figure out what's going on it seems like..

I'm glad you're optimistic, but he was just saying that Berkman and Oswalt could fetch some prospects.


To respond to the Boston guy.. you're right, they could do well by rebuilding and trading stars for prospects. However, their owner has never been one to give up on a season before it starts.. and really, not even in the middle of a losing season since this team has shown remarkable resiliency late in the season over the years. He wants to put fans in the seats, and he's not going to quit.


Plus he doesn't realy give up the homegrown talent like Berkman and Oswalt that are the faces of the franchise. The Astros will do what they can, and barring a complete meltdown early in the year, they'll probably try and buy a piece or 2 to go for the wildcard

[right1]

Pudge is not an All Star. Neither are Tejada, Ortiz, Hampton, or Erstad. You're the one that needs to figure out what's going on it seems like..

Oh piss off. Those guys only have 24 All-Star appearances between them. His arrogant Beantown question and your pansy a$$ defense of him are uncalled for.

[Ottomaton]

You are right. While I don't think Sox fans should be associated with the MFY, they are mostly, rather I like it or not, frankly. In addition, I know many Sox fans who are confrontational, so you are indeed correct in that fact. However, every Sox fan does have a problem with someone, and that someone's name is Joba Chamberlain. :) BTW, I didn't mean to hijack this thread. I was just wondering the prospects the Astros could've gotten in return. My apologies.

Hope springs eternal this time of year. Add to that the fact that the Astros have a remarkable record of turning a team with some big holes into something very competitive the last few years, and no Astros fan wants to be a seller this time of year, as every fan thinks there is a chance to be a winner (except for a distinct minority, like the thread starter). If the Astros stink it up, near the trade deadline some fans might be more receptive. But even then, for some people Berkman and Oswalt are 'true Astros', and they would never trade them for anything. Think if someone has asked the Red Sox to trade Jim Rice or Carl Yastrzemski during the latter half of their career. It can be argued that players like that shouldn’t be traded under any circumstances.

Personally, I would love to see both Buchholz and Andersen in an Astros uniform. And given the title and scope of the thread, I think your question is perfectly reasonable. Obviously, some who are a bit more excitable disagree, but that isn't your fault.

[right1]

If the Astros stink it up, near the trade deadline some fans might be more receptive. But even then, for some people Berkman and Oswalt are 'true Astros', and they would never trade them for anything. Think if someone has asked the Red Sox to trade Jim Rice or Carl Yastrzemski during the latter half of their career. It can be argued that players like that shouldn’t be traded under any circumstances.

Thanks. This is an Astros forum for Astros fans who are actively discussing the positives and shortcomings of the Astros. Admitting you know nothing about the team, don't follow the team and aren't a fan of the team, then asking why we don't trade Berkman and Oswalt on the day before the season starts is stepping on some toes if you ask me. I for one am excited about the baseball season. Add that to the fact I hate the Red Sox, Yankees, Mets, Braves, Cubs, Cardinals and Dodgers and that I'm sitting here watching Braveheart on a Sunday afternoon waiting to go to Minute Maid Park tomorrow night with my two kids and...well, yes, I'm excitable. :p

[Bruins&RedSox21]

So, you are a Bruins & Red Sox fan, but a Rockets fan over the Celtics?

Yes, & a Texans fan over the Patriots. It has to do with my family. They're from Randolph, MA. I split up the teams I root for, in short..

[Bruins&RedSox21]

Oh piss off. Those guys only have 24 All-Star appearances between them. His arrogant Beantown question and your pansy a$$ defense of him are uncalled for.

How was my question arrogant? I really don't follow this team. Thanks to the posters who did answer my question, though. Much appreciated. Again, my intent was to ask the question, get an answer, & continue on. Didn't know I stepped on a fuse. Good luck.

[right1]

How was my question arrogant? I really don't follow this team. Thanks to the posters who did answer my question, though. Much appreciated. Again, my intent was to ask the question, get an answer, & continue on. Didn't know I stepped on a fuse. Good luck.

A powderkeg. Good luck to your Bosox.

[kaleidosky]

Oh piss off. Those guys only have 24 All-Star appearances between them. His arrogant Beantown question and your pansy a$$ defense of him are uncalled for.

ha, pansy ass defense of him. not sure what that means. i guess it means i didn't come out and completely attack you..sorry, not my style

yeah they have a lot of all star appearances between them. but i'd wager a lot on the fact that absolutely none of them will be an All Star this year. Though I'm definitely hoping for some good out of Hampton for sure, and somewhat out of Ortiz

[JLEW1818]

I hope we make it. but we barley made the playoffs with Clemens, Andy, and Roy.......... we might start off good, but our pitching will screw us in the end.

[juicystream]

How was my question arrogant? I really don't follow this team. Thanks to the posters who did answer my question, though. Much appreciated. Again, my intent was to ask the question, get an answer, & continue on. Didn't know I stepped on a fuse. Good luck.

I say you are more than welcome in this forum. I only vote to ban all Jazz, Mavs, Sonics, Bulls, Knicks, Spurs, and pretty much any non-Rockets fan. :D

[rocketballin]

I'd take the Rangers pitching over the Astros pitching about now. Time to rebuild.

[bobrek]

I'd take the Rangers pitching over the Astros pitching about now. Time to rebuild.

Would you take the Rangers' bullpen over the Astros' bullpen?

[msn]

How was my question arrogant? I really don't follow this team. Thanks to the posters who did answer my question, though. Much appreciated. Again, my intent was to ask the question, get an answer, & continue on. Didn't know I stepped on a fuse. Good luck.
meh. there are hundreds of people reading this forum. you could post "happy Monday" and it would piss *somebody* off.

[SamCassell]

meh. there are hundreds of people reading this forum. you could post "happy Monday" and it would piss *somebody* off.
That's probably true. But at the same time, a non-Astros fan posting about how the Stros should dump their big name players for prospects, before the season starts, is bound to get some negative reaction. This team didn't stink last year, they finished 3.5 games out of the WC. Nobody wants to be told, "Your team isn't going to compete this year, so just sell off your assets" before game 1, no matter what team you root for.

[rocketballin]

Would you take the Rangers' bullpen over the Astros' bullpen?
Yep, and their offense too. :cool: