[BSPN] Fans Rank QBs, Schaub #26

[Wakko67]

Rank 'Em: Quarterback Talents(#1 Votes)Points
1 Tom Brady (36,124) 2,585,221
2 Peyton Manning (33,385) 2,552,486
3 Drew Brees (4,632) 2,353,832
4 Ben Roethlisberger (2,272) 2,133,616
5 Kurt Warner (751) 1,890,003
6 Eli Manning (399) 1,879,284
7 Philip Rivers (954) 1,872,918
8 Donovan McNabb (342) 1,857,144
9 Jay Cutler (1,089) 1,774,481
10 Carson Palmer (158) 1,682,599
11 Tony Romo (369) 1,654,144
12 Matt Ryan (297) 1,465,137
13 Matt Cassel (150) 1,373,948
14 Matt Hasselbeck (133) 1,264,987
15 Aaron Rodgers (323) 1,188,438
16 Joe Flacco (174) 1,131,150
17 Kerry Collins (69) 1,129,876
18 Chad Pennington (129) 1,091,541
19 Jake Delhomme (65) 1,079,280
20 Marc Bulger (52) 1,001,820
21 Jeff Garcia (20) 897,263
22 Jason Campbell (217) 863,577
23 David Garrard (36) 837,428
24 Trent Edwards (214) 807,749
25 Derek Anderson (123) 743,601
26 Matt Schaub (47) 719,340
27 Brady Quinn (145) 649,028
28 Kyle Orton (193) 521,598
29 Shaun Hill (123) 409,754
30 JaMarcus Russell (187) 396,981
31 Tarvaris Jackson (121) 393,088
32 Matthew Stafford (52) 349,013
33 Mark Sanchez (41) 296,145

Total SportsNation Votes: 83,386

QB Poll Here (http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/rank?versionId=3&listId=23)

Further proves my theory that the average fan doesn't know $#!+ about teams BSPN doesn't love.

I had Matt around #8 on mine. What do you guys think? I am curious as to y'all's picks for the top ten.

Yes I used two apostrophes on one word.

[CriscoKidd]

I wouldn't put him any higher than 14.

[Wakko67]

I wouldn't put him any higher than 14.

I don't agree, but thats understandable. But 26? They have rookies ahead of him.

So whats your top ten?

[nWo34Life]

I'd put him at 12. I would go even higher if he was healthy the whole season.

[Northside Storm]

For what it's worth, I only follow the NFL casually and I don't particularly like one team over another...here's my top 10 off the top of my head.

1-Tom Brady
2-Peyton Manning
3-Drew Brees
4-Kurt Warner
5-Big Ben
6-Phillip Rivers
7-Don McNabb
8-Romo
9-Cutler
10-Schaub

[Cannonball]

I'd probably put him in the middle of the pack, at least until he shows what he can do over a full season. #8 is a little too high. #26 is way too low. I'd probably put him at #13 or #14 right now. If he plays a full season and plays well, I could put him in the Top 10.

[Wakko67]

I can see the argument for middle of the pack. Just looking at his ability though, he appears to have the talent of top ten. Plus we did get a crazy number of yards last year. Gotta make those red zone trips count. Hopefully Shanahan helps that.

Top five are fairly easy for me.

1. Mr Gisele
2. Mr Commercial
3. Brees
4. K Warner (for now)
5. I'd go with Rivers, though he is a d o uche.

After that I put...

6. Cutler
7. Palmer (has to come back healthy)
8. Matt Schaub
9. Tony Homo (he might be higher if big games didn't matter)
10. Big Ben (being a clutch player is huge, but I don't think he has the ability of the above guys.)


After that there's a lot of uncertainty. Rodgers may lead the rest. I also thought Thigpen played well, but he's not an option on the site.

[EddieWasSnubbed]

I'd put him at somewhere between 12 and 16 until he shows that he can stay healthy and start 16 games. With the emergence of this offense, and one more year of improvement, with (like I said) 16 healthy games, I think he's in the top 10.

I would put these QBs ahead of him right now:

Brady, Peyton, Brees, Roethlisberger, Rivers, Cutler, Romo.

I would say these quarterbacks are pretty near him:

McNabb, Flacco, Ryan, Palmer, Cassell, Rodgers, Edwards, and MAYBE Warner.

Now, these are all assuming that these guys are 100% healthy. Like I said, if Schaub can have a full, healthy season where he carries the Texans' offense to even greater heights, I say he starts moving himself into that top category. Still, I think Schaub is a middle of the pack, quarterback right now. We're lucky enough, though, that even though he's in the middle of the pack, in my opinion, he fits into a class of quarterbacks that are young and on the rise.

[Northside Storm]

I would say these quarterbacks are pretty near him:

McNabb, Flacco, Ryan, Palmer, Cassell, Rodgers, Edwards, and MAYBE Warner.


I don't get the obsession over the three or four guys who had pretty much just had one above-average season. There's no way I would put them above Schaub, especially not Trent Edwards or Flacco (I don't get the hype on that kid, sure he throws decently well, which is something the Ravens needed but he's pretty much just a placemat, a "score 7 points so the defense can win the game" type of player. Not a game-changer in my opinion.)

[KingCheetah]

I'd put him somewhere between # 15-20 -- if he can stay healthy for an entire season he will obviously make a major jump.

[Cannonball]

I don't get the obsession over the three or four guys who had pretty much just had one above-average season. There's no way I would put them above Schaub, especially not Trent Edwards or Flacco (I don't get the hype on that kid, sure he throws decently well, which is something the Ravens needed but he's pretty much just a placemat, a "score 7 points so the defense can win the game" type of player. Not a game-changer in my opinion.)

Agreed. I mean, Schaub missed five full games and still had more yards and more TD's to go along with a higher completion %, higher yards per attempt, and a higher QB rating than Flacco. I get that Flacco was a rookie (and coming from the FCS) and that you can expect him to get better, but if we're talking about how good someone is right now, he's just not there yet.

Same goes for Edwards. I can see Flacco getting some run because Baltimore went 11-5 and made the playoffs. But Edwards and the Bills were worse than the Texans last year.

[Kam]

he's about 14-17.


He's better than Derek Anderson, Trent Edwards, David Garrard, Jason Campbell, Marc Bulger, Joe Flaco, Aaron Rodgers, and Matt Hasselbeck. This is as of right now, at 8:49 PM, March 21th, 2009.

[Wakko67]

I'd put him at somewhere between 12 and 16 until he shows that he can stay healthy and start 16 games. With the emergence of this offense, and one more year of improvement, with (like I said) 16 healthy games, I think he's in the top 10.

I would put these QBs ahead of him right now:

Brady, Peyton, Brees, Roethlisberger, Rivers, Cutler, Romo.

I would say these quarterbacks are pretty near him:

McNabb, Flacco, Ryan, Palmer, Cassell, Rodgers, Edwards, and MAYBE Warner.



Of the first ones, Big Ben and Homo have a worse rating than Matt.

Of the second group, Warner and Rodgers are ahead of him.

Plus he's fourth in accuracy for the year. I think that should put him in the top ten. Health is the only concern for him right now. I'm hoping this year he shakes the fragile reputation. I do agree that we're lucky to have someone in the discussion at all.

[Fulgore]

Schaub 13th IMO


Top 10
Brady
P.Manning
Rothlisberger
McNabb
Brees
Warner
E. Manning
Rivers
Cutler
Romo

[Wakko67]

Schaub 13th IMO


Top 10
Brady
P.Manning
Rothlisberger
McNabb
Brees
Warner
E. Manning
Rivers
Cutler
Romo

You put Eli over him? I don't agree with that. Can't argue with too much else on there.

[rhino17]

1) Tom Brady
2) Peyton Manning
3) Drew Brees
4) Kurt Warner
5) Philip Rivers
6) Tony Romo
7) Eli Manning
8) Ben Roethlisberger
9) Carson Palmer

I think Schaub is right there in consideration for the #10 spot with a few other guys.

[EddieWasSnubbed]

I don't get the obsession over the three or four guys who had pretty much just had one above-average season. There's no way I would put them above Schaub, especially not Trent Edwards or Flacco (I don't get the hype on that kid, sure he throws decently well, which is something the Ravens needed but he's pretty much just a placemat, a "score 7 points so the defense can win the game" type of player. Not a game-changer in my opinion.)
I agree with you.

Mostly, those names are thrown in there with Schaub's, in my post, because they are all up and coming quarterbacks that have great potential to be something. I would put Schaub, based in what she's shown as of now, ahead of all of the young guys.

I would say:

1. Peyton
2. Brady
3. Brees
4. Roethlisberger
5. Rivers
6. Cutler
7. Warner
8. Eli
9. Palmer
10. Schaub
11. McNabb
12. Romo
13. Matt Ryan
14. Cassell
15. Rodgers


I think Warner is in a very good system with very good receivers, and that's why he's ranked so high..

I may be leaving someone off though...

[DonnyMost]

that is ESPN nation for you.

no knowledge of anything other than peyton manning, tom brady, kobe, the yankees, and the red sox.


My list..

1 Drew Brees
2 Peyton Manning
3 Tom Brady
4 Kurt Warner
5 Eli Manning
6 Philip Rivers
7 Donovan McNabb
8 Matt Schaub
9 Ben Roethlisberger
10 Carson Palmer

[texanskan]

that is ESPN nation for you.

no knowledge of anything other than peyton manning, tom brady, kobe, the yankees, and the red sox.


My list..

1 Drew Brees
2 Peyton Manning
3 Tom Brady
4 Kurt Warner
5 Eli Manning
6 Philip Rivers
7 Donovan McNabb
8 Matt Schaub
9 Ben Roethlisberger
10 Carson Palmer

uh Lebron Center as well

good list

[juicystream]

I'd say he is 15th or so.

1 Tom Brady
2 Peyton Manning
3 Drew Brees
4 Kurt Warner
5 Donovan McNabb
6 Tony Romo
7 Eli Manning
8 Ben Roethlisberger
9 Phillip Rivers
10 Carson Palmer
11 Kerry Collins
12 Chad Pennington
13 Matt Ryan
14 David Garrard
15 Matt Schaub

Jay Cutler is way overrated. His QB rating has actually dropped each year. He has managed to lead the Broncos to 2-3, 7-9, 8-8. They were a playoff team the 3 years before he got there, and were 7-5 when he took over for Plummer.

[Major]

Further proves my theory that the average fan doesn't know $#!+ about teams BSPN doesn't love.


Or maybe it simply means that all the QB's ranked above Schaub have been either in the playoffs or in the playoff hunt late in the season during their careers, thus garnering more attention and name recognition. Except for Aaron Rodgers, the top 23 have made the playoffs. The next 2 have been in the hunt. Of the last 8, six have never been close - with the two expections being Tavaris Jackson who didn't start most of the year, and Kyle Orton, who's often been the labelled the reason Chicago can't advance further.

[The Cat]

Or maybe it simply means that all the QB's ranked above Schaub have been either in the playoffs or in the playoff hunt late in the season during their careers, thus garnering more attention and name recognition. Except for Aaron Rodgers, the top 23 have made the playoffs. The next 2 have been in the hunt. Of the last 8, six have never been close - with the two expections being Tavaris Jackson who didn't start most of the year, and Kyle Orton, who's often been the labelled the reason Chicago can't advance further.

If that's true, I'd still blame ESPN for perpetuating this myth that individual players win and lose games by themselves, but I know that's a different discussion.

[Mr. Clutch]

This isn't a scientific poll, so you can't exactly draw accurate conclusions about what the average fan thinks.

[Fulgore]

You put Eli over him? I don't agree with that. Can't argue with too much else on there.I wasnt a big Eli believer until I saw his playoff stretch in 07. You gotta put him in the top 10. But I see your point. Only part we all agree on is the top 2 lol

[Wakko67]

I wasnt a big Eli believer until I saw his playoff stretch in 07. You gotta put him in the top 10. But I see your point. Only part we all agree on is the top 2 lol

Yeah, but the rest of the names are in agreement. They're just shuffled a bit.

I know Eli had a good run, but other than that he hasn't looked too great even this year. He didn't look bad, but Matt looked better than him.

Or maybe it simply means that all the QB's ranked above Schaub have been either in the playoffs or in the playoff hunt late in the season during their careers, thus garnering more attention and name recognition. Except for Aaron Rodgers, the top 23 have made the playoffs. The next 2 have been in the hunt. Of the last 8, six have never been close - with the two expections being Tavaris Jackson who didn't start most of the year, and Kyle Orton, who's often been the labelled the reason Chicago can't advance further.

As for guys in the post season getting more recognition, I can understand that. My only thing is if you look at it objectively, playoffs don't necessarily equal great QB. Big Ben has decent ability and makes some nice plays in the clutch, but there's a reason they're a run first team. Same with Eli. Flacco gets a lot of credit and looked good, but his team was successful off defense. I have a hard time putting someone ahead of Schaub when they average about 100 yards a game and don't blow him away with things like accuracy or TD:INT ratio.

Plus its not just football. I listened to a podcast the other night from Bill Simmons and Ric Bucher. There were numerous times the topic was best exemplified by the Rockets, but the only mention of them in the hour long show was a reference to a trade by the '94 team. ESPN builds up the hype teams and people don't actually know anything about the ones they don't. Thats the good thing about fantasy sports. You tend to learn a lot more about other teams and the sport in general. At least that was the case with me.

Its also a short term memory. A lot like small children. People just started learning about Andre Johnson this year and he's been great for a while. Towards the end of the year many said he was the best in football. Once the playoffs started L Fitz went nuts and all of a sudden no one compares to him. I think they're both great and you can't go wrong with either, but its frustrating to try to talk football with these types.

Jay Cutler is way overrated. His QB rating has actually dropped each year. He has managed to lead the Broncos to 2-3, 7-9, 8-8. They were a playoff team the 3 years before he got there, and were 7-5 when he took over for Plummer.

On Cutler, yeah his team doesn't always win, but the games I saw him in he wasn't lining up at LB or on the D-line. Their defense is garbage. By that logic Brees should be lower as well. I don't buy that he is overrated. Plus their run game wasn't exactly impressive, though that can also be due to injuries.

[moestavern19]

I don't think their top 10 list is that bad really, Schaub is just lower because the Texans don't get any national attention.

[Wakko67]

I don't think their top 10 list is that bad really, Schaub is just lower because the Texans don't get any national attention.

Yeah, I agree. I just am a little surprised by how low. I guess though, even our Monday Night game was played by Sage.

[desi tmac91]

IMO Matt is right there for the 10th slot. He's a great quarterback, nagging injuries just screw him over.

[Major]

As for guys in the post season getting more recognition, I can understand that. My only thing is if you look at it objectively, playoffs don't necessarily equal great QB.

Sure - but this is an internet fan poll. I don't think the idea here was to look at anything objectively.

[Wakko67]

Sure - but this is an internet fan poll. I don't think the idea here was to look at anything objectively.

Agreed.

[Air Langhi]

He is middle of the pack. Take the last 5 mins of the colts game away and I don't really think shaub is all that much better than sage. We will see now that sage is in minny.

[Wakko67]

He is middle of the pack. Take the last 5 mins of the colts game away and I don't really think shaub is all that much better than sage. We will see now that sage is in minny.

Sage throws more picks. A lot more. It also could be that he was trying to do too much to prove he should start.

[TheRealist137]

Sage throws more picks. A lot more. It also could be that he was trying to do too much to prove he should start.
Sage has only started a season at QB, he is basically like a rookie in that regard. So he should improve his ball protection over time.

[emjohn]

He's too low, but I don't think it's extreme. Schaub's an interesting case, the opposite of the limited-but-poised-grizzled-veteran QB.

Schaub could effortless command 70-yard drives and helped us put together one of the most impressive aerial attacks in the game last year. But he was nearly as bad as Rosenfels with the ill-timed, supremely costly turnovers until the end of the year. Add that with his inability to stay on the field and the general national disregard of the Texans, and I'm not shocked.

He writes his story this year.

[justtxyank]

Sage has only started a season at QB, he is basically like a rookie in that regard. So he should improve his ball protection over time.

He's 31.

[Cannonball]

He's 31.

I guess because he never really did much of anything, even in a backup role, until 2005, people don't realize that he's been in the league for 9 years.

[plutoblue11]

I voted for this silly thing, and I thought some of the QBs were too low, like Schaub and Orton.

Schaub, I had in Matt Ryan and Aaron Rodgers level, around #13 to #15. Mainly, because his production was on pace with those guys and he might a little bit more efficient than they are as well. Also, he's more experienced.

I thought Kerry Collins was too high, you give the Titans an above average to elite QB that team would've been challenging for the Patriots, 16-0 record with that defense.

[Major Malcontent]

26 is ridiculous, but like Donny Most said, the Eastern Sports Propaganda Network and it's affiliates pretty much force feed everyone big stars from big markets.

I would put Shaub about 12th

[juicystream]

On Cutler, yeah his team doesn't always win, but the games I saw him in he wasn't lining up at LB or on the D-line. Their defense is garbage. By that logic Brees should be lower as well. I don't buy that he is overrated. Plus their run game wasn't exactly impressive, though that can also be due to injuries.

Brees took what was a terrible team, and helped turn them into a playoff team. The Saints Offense led the league in scoring and only averaged 4 yards per rush(23rd in the league). Cutler took a playoff team to mediocrity. He is mentally weak. He was 16th in passing rating with a very good receiving corp. They averaged 4.8 yards per rush(3rd in the league). They were only 16th in the league in scoring though. Don't fall for the hype. He is a top 5 talent at QB, but he doesn't play like it.

[baller4life315]

I don't mean to hijack this thread but putting players like Romo, Eli, Schaub, Rivers and others ahead of Big Ben is pretty ridiculous. I mean, some of those guys haven't even made the playoffs yet, some haven't recorded a playoff victory and some Ben kills in pretty much every metric imaginable.

In five seasons he's finished top five in QB rating three times. I'm sure I don't need to remind anybody he's won two Super Bowls either. Don't be fooled by his down year statistically this past season. He had a brand new, Swiss Cheese offensive line coupled with an injury-plagued, bottom 10 running game with Willie Parker missing so much time. The Steelers have struggled tremendously with replacing Alan Faneca and others, however they've made that their primary focus this offseason through draft and free agency.

The "Top 10" as I see it:

1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Ben Roethlisberger
4. Drew Brees
5. Eli Manning
6. Kurt Warner
7. Donovan McNabb
8. Phil Rivers
9. Tony Romo
10. Carson Palmer

No offense to Schaub, of course. He's on pace to get there but I don't see it just yet.

[Wakko67]

Brees took what was a terrible team, and helped turn them into a playoff team. The Saints Offense led the league in scoring and only averaged 4 yards per rush(23rd in the league). Cutler took a playoff team to mediocrity. He is mentally weak. He was 16th in passing rating with a very good receiving corp. They averaged 4.8 yards per rush(3rd in the league). They were only 16th in the league in scoring though. Don't fall for the hype. He is a top 5 talent at QB, but he doesn't play like it.

Thats true about Brees, but itis a little deceiving. How many plays were there where he'd thow little screen passes to Bush or another RB and that would net big yards? Not downplaying what he did, but some of the rushing type plays went that way instead.

Cutler is still pretty good and you can't put the failures all on him. The defense was ranked 29th for the year.

I don't mean to hijack this thread but putting players like Romo, Eli, Schaub, Rivers and others ahead of Big Ben is pretty ridiculous. I mean, some of those guys haven't even made the playoffs yet, some haven't recorded a playoff victory and some Ben kills in pretty much every metric imaginable.

In five seasons he's finished top five in QB rating three times. I'm sure I don't need to remind anybody he's won two Super Bowls either. Don't be fooled by his down year statistically this past season. He had a brand new, Swiss Cheese offensive line coupled with an injury-plagued, bottom 10 running game with Willie Parker missing so much time. The Steelers have struggled tremendously with replacing Alan Faneca and others, however they've made that their primary focus this offseason through draft and free agency.

Big Ben has been good, but even with the running game hurting, he wasn't exactly lighting people up. Yes he also has two rings, but then again the best defense in the league may have had something to do with that. Ben is clutch and does have ability and thats why he's in my top ten. Also if we're talking total body of work, Palmer moves up on my list. For right now, if I were starting a team from scratch there would be a few guys in front of him.

[Malcolm]

Well I really don't have a problem with where he's ranked as long as if he can't stay on the field.

Matt Schuab <=> Chris Chandler

[Rokkit]

I wonder how the majority of people voted on this. Ability, or production.

I think a lot of people are underestimating Schaub. If only he could stay healthy. :(

[BigM]

schaub has top 10 talent and if he stays healthy he can easily put a lot of doubters to rest. it's hard to rank him in that group right now until he proves it over the course of a season and preferably the playoffs. he's more in the 10-13 range than the ridiculous 26 though.

[baller4life315]

Big Ben has been good, but even with the running game hurting, he wasn't exactly lighting people up. Yes he also has two rings, but then again the best defense in the league may have had something to do with that. Ben is clutch and does have ability and thats why he's in my top ten.

So by this logic should we reduce Brady to simply a lucky QB on teams with great defenses too? That's basically what you're implying here with Ben.

Schaub, Cutler, Romo, Palmer, Rivers all ahead of Ben? Seriously?! No Eli Manning either? No McNabb? Your list is puzzling, to say the very least.

[rocketfan83]

I'm more suprised that Romo is #11. I think thats about right but with a Fan vote I thought he would defintely be in the top 5.


Schaub should be around 15 if he can do what he did late in the year for a whole season that he should shoot up to maybe top 5.

I wonder where an ESPN fan vote would land Slaton that would be a bigger joke

[Chuck 4]

I stopped at Matt Cassel.

I think I can say Matt Schaub is top 15 with some confidence.

[pgabriel]

26 is ridiculous, but like Donny Most said, the Eastern Sports Propaganda Network and it's affiliates pretty much force feed everyone big stars from big markets.

I would put Shaub about 12th


really, there are 25 bigger markets and names?

I agree Schaub is too low, but that's not the reason

[Wakko67]

So by this logic should we reduce Brady to simply a lucky QB on teams with great defenses too? That's basically what you're implying here with Ben.

Schaub, Cutler, Romo, Palmer, Rivers all ahead of Ben? Seriously?! No Eli Manning either? No McNabb? Your list is puzzling, to say the very least.

You're really going to compare what Brady does to what Ben does? Come on. And as far as ability, yeah those guys are before him. I may put Romo behind him because of his choking nature. Eli didn't do a whole lot, especially when Plax went out. So far his whole stardom is based on his name and one great run. I would take those other QBs before him. McNabb is pretty good, but not what he used to be. You ask me a couple of years ago and he is higher. Then again, so is Palmer. I'd still take him, but not over the guys I have before him.

[moestavern19]

Thats true about Brees, but itis a little deceiving. How many plays were there where he'd thow little screen passes to Bush or another RB and that would net big yards? Not downplaying what he did, but some of the rushing type plays went that way instead.



I don't really buy that argument.

With all due respect, you don't throw for 5000 yards on check-downs and screens.

Take a look at his stats and you'll find that average yards per completion was 8.0... good for 2nd in the league. His completions over 20 yards (66) were by far the most in the league. Reggie Bush accounted for just 8% of his total passing yards.

Plus he did most of this by spreading the ball around and Marques Colston was injured for the better part of the year.

[baller4life315]

You're really going to compare what Brady does to what Ben does? Come on. And as far as ability, yeah those guys are before him. I may put Romo behind him because of his choking nature. Eli didn't do a whole lot, especially when Plax went out. So far his whole stardom is based on his name and one great run. I would take those other QBs before him. McNabb is pretty good, but not what he used to be. You ask me a couple of years ago and he is higher. Then again, so is Palmer. I'd still take him, but not over the guys I have before him.

Am I going to compare Ben to Brady? Absolutely and why wouldn't I? Every offense is different so relying solely on passing yardage and TD count is rather deceiving for comparison's sake. Passer rating and track record are the universal standards for which you can judge a QB and Ben undeniably tests out favorably. Is Brady better? Well, Brady is probably the best player in football and i'm not challenging that. All i'm saying is if you go by passer rating and accomplishments Ben stands out just as much as Brady does. Only, Brady is better.

I'd challenge you to define "ability" but I already know how you'll answer that. Your gravitation towards the younger guys and fantasy football big number guys is pretty obvious. Unfortunately for Schaub, Cutler, Romo, Palmer, Rivers and whoever else you feel is "better" than Ben those guys have a combined what.....two playoff victories? Fantasy football certainly is fantasy for a reason.

As for Eli, his M.O. is beating you in the 4th quarter. He doesn't dazzle you with numbers so it's understandable that he doesn't meet your fantasy football requirements but you simply can't put a price on intangibles. Eli is one of the most clutch QB's in the game.

[moestavern19]

Ben Roethlisberger gets the **** kicked out of him every game. His offensive line is built for ground and pound... then they lose Willie Parker and #1 pick Rashard Mendenhall. I watched the guy get killed in the pocket time and time again, get back up and in the final minute make the plays needed to win the game.

What he accomplished this season despite his defense keeping him in most of the games and setting him up with a chance to win; was nothing short of spectacular.

Toughest schedule in the league. You could say they were battle tested. Playing Baltimore 3 times in a season is no cake walk.

I have tremendous respect for Big Ben and I think he's certainly 2nd tier in the league behind the two top guys (Manning, Brady)

[Wakko67]

Am I going to compare Ben to Brady? Absolutely and why wouldn't I? Every offense is different so relying solely on passing yardage and TD count is rather deceiving for comparison's sake. Passer rating and track record are the universal standards for which you can judge a QB and Ben undeniably tests out favorably. Is Brady better? Well, Brady is probably the best player in football and i'm not challenging that. All i'm saying is if you go by passer rating and accomplishments Ben stands out just as much as Brady does. Only, Brady is better.

I'd challenge you to define "ability" but I already know how you'll answer that. Your gravitation towards the younger guys and fantasy football big number guys is pretty obvious. Unfortunately for Schaub, Cutler, Romo, Palmer, Rivers and whoever else you feel is "better" than Ben those guys have a combined what.....two playoff victories? Fantasy football certainly is fantasy for a reason.

As for Eli, his M.O. is beating you in the 4th quarter. He doesn't dazzle you with numbers so it's understandable that he doesn't meet your fantasy football requirements but you simply can't put a price on intangibles. Eli is one of the most clutch QB's in the game.

Ben is up there, but you just said rating matters. The guys on my list all have pretty good ratings. Schaub's is better than Ben's.

Yes he took a beating and still played. I'll give him that. You don't think that affects his play? If it does, its still his play. He is up there and I do put him in the second tier behind Brady and Manning, but there's an argument for guys ahead of him. Those other guys threw a lot more and did well. That should count for something. Not talking fantasy, talking how many chances do you take and how successful are you.

As for Eli, man. That dude has gotten better, but is not in the top ten IMO. He's like Kerry Collins, where his team's success isn't all on him. The run game that they had definitely helped him out.

[baller4life315]

Ben is up there, but you just said rating matters. The guys on my list all have pretty good ratings. Schaub's is better than Ben's.

Yes he took a beating and still played. I'll give him that. You don't think that affects his play? If it does, its still his play. He is up there and I do put him in the second tier behind Brady and Manning, but there's an argument for guys ahead of him. Those other guys threw a lot more and did well. That should count for something. Not talking fantasy, talking how many chances do you take and how successful are you.

Passer rating is definitely important but making the point that Schaub had a better passer rating than Ben for one season and then using that as your evidence to slingshot Schaub into Ben's league is a pretty big 'homerism', IMO. In five seasons Ben has finished top five in passer rating three times. Something Schaub has yet to accomplish even once and that's placing aside all the other compelling and damaging 4th quarter and postseason evidence.

Schaub is a very good, underrated player and I agree with the premise of this thread. People are wacky if they really feel he's the 26th best QB or overall talent in the league. He's better than a lot of people realize and you can almost hear the ESPN analysts proclaiming he's the "real deal" if/when the Texans have a breakout year. Until that happens though.......

As for Eli, man. That dude has gotten better, but is not in the top ten IMO. He's like Kerry Collins, where his team's success isn't all on him. The run game that they had definitely helped him out.

Kerry Collins isn't the 4th quarter/OT assassin Eli is. Don't get me wrong, I will gladly admit Eli's numbers are underwhelming. Hell, i've echoed similar sentiments myself. Still, you can't put a price on intangibles and Eli has the ability to take over a game in ways that only 2-3 other QB's on the planet can. For that reason he'll always be in my top five.

[Wakko67]

Passer rating is definitely important but making the point that Schaub had a better passer rating than Ben for one season and then using that as your evidence to slingshot Schaub into Ben's league is a pretty big 'homerism', IMO. In five seasons Ben has finished top five in passer rating three times. Something Schaub has yet to accomplish even once and that's placing aside all the other compelling and damaging 4th quarter and postseason evidence.

Schaub is a very good, underrated player and I agree with the premise of this thread. People are wacky if they really feel he's the 26th best QB or overall talent in the league. He's better than a lot of people realize and you can almost hear the ESPN analysts proclaiming he's the "real deal" if/when the Texans have a breakout year. Until that happens though.......



Kerry Collins isn't the 4th quarter/OT assassin Eli is. Don't get me wrong, I will gladly admit Eli's numbers are underwhelming. Hell, i've echoed similar sentiments myself. Still, you can't put a price on intangibles and Eli has the ability to take over a game in ways that only 2-3 other QB's on the planet can. For that reason he'll always be in my top five.

I can agree for the most part about Ben. Dude has the intangibles and has proved. Given this year's performance and what is asked of him, I have him lower. He's still in the top ten for me.

As for Eli, he has made some good plays late, but I can't put him in the top ten. I feel like if you put one of the guys I have higher in his spot, they'll do pretty well. Even the rookie Flacco made some clutch plays, but I wouldn't put him higher than he is. Thats just me.

[Naija Texan]

My opinion is that Matt is rated too low, right now he is an obvious top 20 QB. And he should be rated higher then Tony Romo and I like Romo's QB play when he isn't getting run around because the offensive line screws him over.

Also Ben Roethlisberger is one of the top five QBs currently playing in the NFL, that shouldn't be a question. He might not be as prolific a passer as your Peyton Mannings or Tom Brady but for the damage he takes and how he manages the game, he definitely deserves credit. No Chad Pennington or Kerry Collins could have won that last Super Bowl for the Steelers.

I mean other the senior Manning brother, Brady and maybe Kurt Warner (last season) not many QBs, I'd take over Roethlisberger based off their previous work.

[Malcolm]

really, there are 25 bigger markets and names?




Dude Houston has a top 10 Market in the the US its a staying on the field issue for Shaub

[Malcolm]

I think a lot of people are underestimating Schaub. If only he could stay healthy. :(

Thats the problem staying healthy is a vauble part to ranking a player preformance. What good are your number equvilent towards a whole season if you cant stay on the field for a whole season.

[MadMax]

Dude Houston has a top 10 Market in the the US its a staying on the field issue for Shaub

there was one?

[Ashes]

He's at least top 15.

[Malcolm]

He's at least top 15.
He is not better than any of the top 15 on the list even if he was healthy